Making your own control cables

[Froth]

Has any one made their own cables? I need to make a non-standard throttle cable for my RD (different carbs) and have a bit of an idea how to do it but I have had a few failures when it come to making and joining the nipples to the cable. Any ideas?

[Ixion]

I used to make my own for years. Then got lazy, and stopped. Now I've started again, cos dealer prices for ready made for Jappers are absurd.

It's very easy PROVIDED you have a good heat source for the soldering. Electronic type soldering iron is no good. I use a oxy torch VERY CAREFULLY, with a #8 tip and a very very very small flame. A propane torch or butane torch would be better , oxy is a bit harsh. You must NOT overheat the steel cable (DON'T GET IT RED HOT) or you'll ruin it's temper and it'll break.

I generally use silver solder, but hard tinman's solder (from hardware store, not Dick Smiths ) is OK.

You need a good SHARP cold chisel. Use it to cut the inner and out cables to length, assemble the cable (don't forget the ferrules, I always do). Tap the ferrules with a sharp centre punch to retain them.

Fit the nipple, and splay the cable out a bit and use a rivet punch to push the steel down into the little bowl in the nipple. The really important thing to understand is that you are NOT soldering the nipple to the cable - you could never get such a joint strong enough. What you are doing is splaying the steel cable into the bowl of the nipple, then filling the bowl with solder so that the force on the cable wont strighten it out and pull the nipple off. Run the solder down between the cable and nipple to stop the nipple turning or twisting.

Do the other end and you're done. Takes about 10 minutes for a cable. Easy peasy, harder to describe than do

Hardest part is getting the makings, Mt Eden Motorcycles will sometimes sell you some at a reasonable price. Othertimes they ask something silly, I think they make the price up on the spot.Otherwise there is a brake and clutch place in Hamilton that specialises in it, I'll check for their name.

[Froth]

Wow! thanks Ixion. Question tho; where do you get the nipples from? Can you make em out of brass or steel or even lead maybe?

[Ixion]

Wow! thanks Ixion. Question tho; where do you get the nipples from? Can you make em out of brass or steel or even lead maybe?

Well, you can buy them, which is easiest. Or make them yourself, in the lathe. Brass alloy. I'd buy them if possible, it's fiddly work. Mr Motu makes his own, ask him for any hints. For small ones , like on the ends of throttle cables, I don't bother with a nipple just splay the cable end and run a blob of silver solder direct on the wire, then file to shape.

EDIT: Throttle cables are easy because there is so little load. Clutch ones need more care. I prefer the free floating barrel type rather than the soldered barrel. I suggest you leave brake cables until you've some experience, a broken brake cable could be embarrassing. Or worse.

[Froth]

K. I'll buy some silver solder tommorrow. I think I'll use bicycle brake cable being as it is just a throttle cable.

[Ixion]

K. I'll buy some silver solder tommorrow. I think I'll use bicycle brake cable being as it is just a throttle cable.

Yes, bicycle cable is good for throttles, just check that the size is OK for the groove in your twist grip.

[WINJA]

IVE MADE AND REPAIRED NUMEROUS CABLES BY PUTTING A BLOB OF SILFOS OR EASY FLOW ON THE ENDS

[HCW]

Your local bike shop should be able to get ' do it yourself ' throttle cable kits made by WFO, supplied by Darbis (I think). But this is the way I do it.
I heat up a tiny steal bowl of solder with the gas torch, dip the cable with the nipple in place into flux then into the molten solder. Practice on spare cable first.
Good luck.

[Ixion]

Go kart places are a good source for this sort of stuff.

[FROSTY]

I Know youre miles away but atomic wreckers on barrys poit road carry the gubbings for cables.
Mind you just a thought -before ya go reinventing the wheel -It might pay to russle around your local wreckers shelves-There may be a premade cable thats exactly what ya need

[Motu]

I use 1/4 brass or steel rod for the clutch end,dill the hole first,countersink,then cut off the rod,saves farting around with a small nipple.I had some real small tube for carb ends,but every cable I junk now I remove and save the nipples,then it's easy cause they are already tinned.I'm pretty sure they were in a Vicks Vapourub jar,but buggered if I can find it now....Careful with the Easyflow method,sure it makes a strong joint,but it's so easy to overheat the strands.OE cable is nylon lined,bulk cable isn't,so don't expect them to be as good,but atleast you can lube them easier.

[lb99]

shift away all the spotting gear and use the element on the stove for doing cables, its better than a soldering iron and less llikely to overheat the cable and make it brittle like a gas torch.
I use cable kits for pushbikes for throttle cables, I got about 1.5 mtr of inner and outer and some ends of local bike shop for about $8 I think.
I kept snapping the Brake cable on my XT400, then one day I got desperate, and used the stove and some flux cored electrical solder for a quick fix, as far as I know that cable is still on the bike. I even (accidentally) pulled a stoppie on it once, all I ever did was stretch the cable.
Engeneering supplies outfits like Paykels shold have all the gear you need for heavier cables.
I have also used steel rod for cable ends when there is nothing else available
I have never had a home made cable fail, but you need to be quite confident in your skills if you want to make brake cables, they hold your life in balance.

[Ixion]

Brake cables are also a pain because they often use a swaged on steel piece at the end, that has the adjusting thread on it. Even if you salvage the end from the old cable you can't easily reuse it because of the swaging. Fortunatley cable brakes are now rare.

[CDFloss]

Talk about resurrecting a thread! :rolleyes:

My clutch cable pulled out of the ferrule (or metal-end-bung-thingy as its probably more commonly known). Looks like it was either a shitty cable, or was previously repaired, badly.

I trimmed a few mm off the end to get a nice clean tip, and torched the old solder off the ferrule (which looks like it might be copper).
Now I know how to re-solder a cable to satisfactory standards (since a new one is apparently going to take 10 working days from Jappan :pinch:) - but where can I buy the necessary solder and flux in Wellington? Would somewhere like Mitre 10 have this, or would I need to find a more specialist store?

Cheers
Dave

[Ixion]

It's the nipple actually. The ferrule is the little silver cappy thingy wotsit that goes over the end of the outer cable to keep it neat and tidy.

The nipple will be brass.

Mitre 10 should have the solder you need, and more importantly, the flux. You want tinmans solder (not electricians) , and Duzall flux (in the little green bottle). Be sure to wash the cable throughly after it's done. the flux is corrosive.

[Motu]

Plumber's solder has a higher lead content,so is not as strong as electrical solder which is 60/40 tin/lead I think.Interesting that the alloy has a lower melting point than both parent metals.I prefer a paste flus for cables as you can put it where you want it,and it won't run down inside your nice new cable.

I am pleased to see that no one in this thread has mentioned soder....Hitcher will be impressed.Obviously a word the texting generation doesn't use every day.

[Ixion]

Tinmans soder (:devil2:) is not the same as plumbers. Tinmans (or tinkers or gypsies soder) is 1 part tin 1 part lead (50/50) : plumbers is 1 part tin 2 parts lead.

Electricians soder (once known a s fine soder) is 1.5 tin to 1 lead (60/40) .

The considerations of type are more complex than just lead bad tin good. Electricians soder is liquid over only a very small heat range (183 to 188). This is good for electronics where you want to touch the wires , flow the solder and it sets real fast. It also has the lowest melting point of all soders an important consideration when dealing with heat sensitive electronic components)But the downside is, that the narrow heat range actually means the solder joint is LESS strong. Like most metallurgy stuff, fast cooling means lower strength than slow cooling. Tinmans soder is slower setting but gives a stronger joint (it was actually used to solder handles to things and stuff like that ), and has a higher melting point (why you need a flame not a 25 watt soldering iron) .

The special feature of plumbers soder is that it remains plastic over a wider heat range than any of the other soders, an important advantage for wiping joints .

Then there are the innumerable silver and hard soders , pewterers soder , goldsmiths soder, silversmiths soder, gunsmiths soder, and woods metal

Oh, and you won't be able to get ANY of them soon because the bureaucunts in the EU have banned them cos they contain lead!

[CDFloss]

It's the nipple actually. The ferrule is the little silver cappy thingy wotsit that goes over the end of the outer cable to keep it neat and tidy.

The nipple will be brass.

Mitre 10 should have the solder you need, and more importantly, the flux. You want tinmans solder (not electricians) , and Duzall flux (in the little green bottle). Be sure to wash the cable throughly after it's done. the flux is corrosive.

Brass, that's the one! :2thumbsup Yeah, I'm always getting my wotsits and nipples mixed up... damn those nipples. ;)

Thanks - will head out there tomorrow. I've got a piddly 25w soldering iron, and a beefy sized torch... so would it be better to melt a little pot of solder using the torch and dip the nipple in it, or attempt to just use the torch itself?

[CDFloss]

I ended up using the torch to solder the nipple, which went well - looked better than the original connection. Problem is that I just tried to fit it, and its too short... BUGGER! :mad: Now that I think about it, both the clutch lever and engine case adjustments were screwed right in, so the cable must've been at the limit, and I had to trim about 1.5cm off the tip to get a good clean end. Plus the 5mm or so that the nipple takes up I guess.

So I'm up shit creek without a clutch cable. The outer is 100%, so I just need a cable (think its 2mm). Where in Wellington would I be able to get some loose cable - or one made up for me? I just cant believe that I need to wait over 2 weeks for an OEM part for $50 when all I need is a new inner. :blink: I'm guessing I can just measure the old one, and add a good 5+cm to make sure it fits?

Cheers
Dave

[imdying]

I've made thousands of cables, electrical solder will be fine. LPG torch is great, MAPP torch is too hot. Duzall rocks, don't forget it. 2mm cable should be easy enough to buy from any motorcycle repair shop... if they don't have it, they're a pretty poor workshop imho.

[Bonez]

Can you move the clutch lever assy along the bars/clip-on a bit? Or reroute it to be usable till Monday?

[TLDV8]

fwiw...Last time i made up custom cables i ordered everything through Motomail who got the bits off Darbi Accessories in Auckland.
If you can get a copy of their catalog it shows all,including nipple dimensions,cable inner/outer and outer ends.
I never had any problems using good silver solder and a normal soldering iron (reasonable wattage) for the nipples.
To powerful and the solder can run out of the nipples making the cable stiff,not a good thing at the twist grip end as i found when first having a go,a bit of practice got good results.

[imdying]

Yeah, Darbi's, or Whites up norf :yes:

Solder it upside down to prevent the solder running up the cable, but also, only flux the bits you want soldered, and whatever you do, don't use too much solder!!! (cause that's the biggest cause).

[CDFloss]

Can you move the clutch lever assy along the bars/clip-on a bit? Or reroute it to be usable till Monday?

Unfortunately not, the cable is too short for the outer, and I dont want to damage/cut the outer as its still in good condition.

The brass cylindrical nipple that fits into the clutch handle is fine so I can reuse it, but I dont know what the bottom (smaller) nipple is. I.e. dont know if its just a blob of solder, or a reusable unit like the brass top one. If its reusable, then I guess I can just buy a length of 2mm cable from somewhere and make it up myself.

I'm in Wellington, so Motomail (or anywhere in Auckland) isnt going to happen. :rolleyes:

Cheers

[Ixion]

You almost always need to shorten the outer to match a shortened inner. Before soldering up the inner it's easy, just slip off the ferrule, and a quick whack with a sharp cold chisel. Wiggle the ferrule back on and you'd never know the difference.

Once the inner is soldered it's a bit harder but doable. Slide the ferrule off, and trim the outer plastic casing back the required length with a sharp knife. Use a sharp small cold chisel or screwdriver to prise apart the coils of the outer cable.You may need to wedge the coils apart with the edge of a small pair of sidecutters to start things off. Now use a GOOD SHARP pair of side cutters to snip the coil at the appropriate point. Using two pairs of linesman's pliers, unwind the coil of the snipped off bit and remove it. Replace the ferrule, done.

Properly done it is impossible to tell that the cable has been shortened.

I sort of assumed you would shorten the outer to match the inner. Shouldn't assume I guess.

[Bonez]

There is an alternative to OEM cables. "Motion Pro"
http://www.motionpro.com/search/motorcycle/black_vinyl_oe_replacement_cables/

Any bike shop should be able to order a complete cable less than an OEM item if it's available for your bike in a few days.

[Ixion]

Hmm. Very limited range .

[Bonez]

Hmm. Very limited range .
A particular model cable may be suitable for a variaty of machines. Also you can get cable kits-
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/cables/

[CDFloss]

You almost always need to shorten the outer to match a shortened inner. ... I sort of assumed you would shorten the outer to match the inner. Shouldn't assume I guess.

Aah, I see... yes, well. :mellow: At least this gives me hope again that I might be riding tomorrow! :woohoo: I'll have to check that there is enough slack for me to shorten the outer, but I seem to remember it being pretty slack.

So, I guess its back out into the cold to check it out. Shoulda bought those Dickies work gloves I was looking at this morning... Im likely to lose a few fingers to frostbite tonight! <_<

Thanks again folks.

[CDFloss]

A particular model cable may be suitable for a variaty of machines. Also you can get cable kits-
http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/cables/

How would I find out if another cable suits my bike? Would it just be a case of contacting a dealer and asking them to look it up?

[Bonez]

How would I find out if another cable suits my bike? Would it just be a case of contacting a dealer and asking them to look it up?They usually will have a cataloque or online database. If you are lucky they may even have one in stock. I would'nt be surprised if the GS500 cable is the same or similar (could be wrong).

Another option is the local bike wreckers. Should have something to do the job.
What year is your GSX250?

[CDFloss]

What year is your GSX250?

2005 - I think its called the GSX 250 K2 "Invader". This is the bike here in any case: http://www.ventura-bike.com/fitments.aspx?modelid=697

I've attached 2 photos of the ends. I'm not sure how to shorten the outer, since the ferrules (if thats what those angled metal end bits are called) are crimped to the outer sheath. Not sure how to break that crimp joint, while being able to re-join it after cutting the outer shorter... unless its not possible with this cable??

Cheers

[Bonez]

2005 - I think its called the GSX 250 K2 "Invader". This is the bike here in any case: http://www.ventura-bike.com/fitments.aspx?modelid=697

I've attached 2 photos of the ends. I'm not sure how to shorten the outer, since the ferrules (if thats what those angled metal end bits are called) are crimped to the outer sheath. Not sure how to break that crimp joint, while being able to re-join it after cutting the outer shorter... unless its not possible with this cable??

CheersA very common bike. I'm surprised the local Suzuki outfit didn't stock a cable. You'll be able to get an inner fitted on Monday anyway. Personnally I wouldn't muck around with the outer with the ferrules being crimped the way they are. Could stuff it completely.

Here's Phil Turnbulls number in Palmerston North 0635888788 ask for Paul (rgvrider on KB) if you need any extra help in getting an OEM item.

[CDFloss]

Yeah, I thought it was reasonably common, but when I've tried to find any info about them its like pulling hens teeth! The local Suzuki dealers (Wellington MC) said they need to get stock from Japan, hence the 10 working day wait... but I'm just being impatient. :rolleyes:
I'll have another call around on Monday to see what I can organise, thanks for the number.

Cheers
Dave

[Ixion]

2005 - I think its called the GSX 250 K2 "Invader". This is the bike here in any case: http://www.ventura-bike.com/fitments.aspx?modelid=697

I've attached 2 photos of the ends. I'm not sure how to shorten the outer, since the ferrules (if thats what those angled metal end bits are called) are crimped to the outer sheath. Not sure how to break that crimp joint, while being able to re-join it after cutting the outer shorter... unless its not possible with this cable??

Cheers

O, tits. Those horrible swaged things. Yeah, they're very difficult. It can be done, but it's hard and impossible with the inner in place. I hate that type.

[CDFloss]

O, tits. Those horrible swaged things. Yeah, they're very difficult. It can be done, but it's hard and impossible with the inner in place. I hate that type.

Bugger - yup I've resigned to waiting until tomorrow to see what I can do. :weep: Such a nice afternoon outside now too...

Will try to buy some cable to DIY it in the mean time, but will prob give in and order some OEM ones anyway.

Thanks to all for the help though. Cheers.

[CDFloss]

I found a GSX on Trade Me being wrecked by "buckets n bits" here in Lower Hutt. So asked for a clutch cable, and wha'd'ya know, 5 minutes later Ive got one (in the post) for 20 bucks.

But had already phoned TSS motorcycles in the Hutt asking if they knew someone who would sell me some 2mm cable - and they said "just bring it in and the guys out back can fix one up for you easy". So I did that after work today (thought I'd have 1 spare)... they wanted to bloody charge me over $70 for a full hour's labour!?! I gave them the exact measurement, and the nipples, etc... just needed the cable cut and soldered. :blink:

I can do it myself in 15 minutes with the right tools, and wouldnt consider that speedy. Why charge a full hour labour? Ok anyway, thats business, but why tell me to bring it in the first place when surely they realise a new one is about half that price?

Just really bugged me that I specifically took off from work early to drive all the way there for that. I should've asked on the phone what they'd charge, but they made it sound like it was nothing, almost a while-you-wait kinda deal.

Oh well - :angry2: end of my venting. :calm: