Suspension Tuning day with Dave Moss and Two Bald Bikers

[IronPawz]

Yesterday myself and 5-6 others spend the afternoon with Dave Moss and the Two Bald Bikers (who do a lot of gold courses). 1pm - 5pm. Dave goes over the suspension and has a chat. TBB guys take us all on a ride (seemed like 40-60 minutes). There is discussion then an amazing tune up (Dave is the man) and another longer ride to feel those changes. Stop for additional tune (softer / harder by preference) and some braking test runs. Then the ride back (apparently 300kms over the day).

Dave Moss won all four (from memory it was in a recent bike mag) comps he did in the states last year and has raced for years. He has loads of vids on youtube (look up Dave Moss or Dave Moss Suspension).

I appreciate how into rider safety he is and how amazing my bike (Blade) and my previous bike (Blade) where after he got at it. Sure lots of people do good suspension and sure you can learn and do more yourself (which he encourages and also does training days to teach). He's just a pretty cool guy, very genuine and he makes my bike ROCK which I do a long commute and track days on so really appreciate.

6-7 people at $150 its not a big earn for three guys and 5 hours. One of those sessions last year only two people went (friends of mine).

We have some great local suspension builders (Robert Taylor) but not so many amazing suspension tuners. Dave is only here part of the year. One of the guys doing the day road back (and assuming from) Wanganui to Wellington (that is dedication). I was about 450 over the day (bit saw after that one given I'm always a little saw and riding slower in a group seems to cause more pain).

I will be loving those changes for many KMs to come. If you get a bike from the shop chances are the setup is average at best and you will be amazed what a proper tune can do.

Fully recommend Dave google him and look for up coming events. He does track days all over the place also.

[Ulsterkiwi]

have had this gent work his magic on two very different bikes for me. I really like the way he engages with people. He challenges but not in an off putting way.
His main message is put the effort in and you will get results, the bike is more fun to ride and you will be more in control, so you will be safer. Win all around!

[AllanB]

You realise you can adjust your suspension yourself ...... I have this theory that there are just too many knobs and the likes on decent bikes and that puts people off playing with them.

Having said that $150 is good value for expert advice and set-up.

[nzspokes]

We have some great local suspension builders (Robert Taylor) but not so many amazing suspension tuners. .

Thats a very big call.

[SVboy]

Thats a very big call.

Whom would you recommend?

[nzspokes]

Whom would you recommend?Robert Taylor, Aden Cartwright, Dillon Telford.

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[F5 Dave]

Well considering clicking adjusters is just pushing a tapered needle into a fixed orifice that bypasses the shock valves, yes, you can improve the low speed shaft movement. And indeed there is always benefit in finding a good setup there along with correct preload.

But if the valving or the spring rates are not good for you then it is only a small part of the story.

[nzspokes]

Well considering clicking adjusters is just pushing a tapered needle into a fixed orifice that bypasses the shock valves, yes, you can improve the low speed shaft movement. And indeed there is always benefit in finding a good setup there along with correct preload.

But if the valving or the spring rates are not good for you then it is only a small part of the story.But now you get the bikes computer adjusting the needles. Soooo much betterer.

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[F5 Dave]

I'm with you on that.

I got given a digital tyre gauge. Must be more accurate as the number say so.

[pritch]

But now you get the bikes computer adjusting the needles. Soooo much betterer.


Except that the needle adjustment range is tiny. Without checking, I seem to recall that Ohlins say your settings should be within five clicks of standard. Thereafter other factors need to be considered: valving, spring rate, etc.

I can't recall the exact figure but I think the average sprotbike suspension is set for a rider of about 80Kg. If you don't weigh that? Potential problem.

Then some sports suspension comes set for the track. A sliky smooth track. New Zealand roads are not at all like that , you may find all your fillings falling out.

Computers can only do so much.

[F5 Dave]

Actually I think he was being Far-Sea-Fish.

[nzspokes]

Actually I think he was being Far-Sea-Fish.

You could say that.:laugh:

I see electronic suspension at the moment as a fecken expensive screwdriver.

Nothing against Dave Moss though, he is very good. I enjoy the member area of his website and have hired him for a day at the track. His base principle always seems to be get the bike safe as he can then work from there. Joe Average punter gets squirmy paying $45 for a basic setup let alone they need to sink real money into the bike for springs and valving.

[nzspokes]

Except that the needle adjustment range is tiny. Without checking, I seem to recall that Ohlins say your settings should be within five clicks of standard. Thereafter other factors need to be considered: valving, spring rate, etc.

I can't recall the exact figure but I think the average sprotbike suspension is set for a rider of about 80Kg. If you don't weigh that? Potential problem.

Then some sports suspension comes set for the track. A sliky smooth track. New Zealand roads are not at all like that , you may find all your fillings falling out.

Computers can only do so much.

Apart from Ohlins valving can be out as well. My one for the Prilla is going in to take some high speed comp out and add some rebound.

[SVboy]

This is all correct. With manufacturers valving and springing suspension for some mythical average rider on an average surface, revalving and respringing for the individual is just magic. Dave just has the knack of using the clickers to bring the chassis into balance. The number of riders who have bikes with fully adjustable suspension and never touch them, even to set sag, always blows me away. I was riding my Busa today, nitron rear shock, front racetek internals, built by Robert Taylor, set up by me, checked by Dave, and just enjoyed the experience of sorted suspension.

[layton]

I was always scared of playing with the suspension, I had a go with a 900 Ducati monster.. Didn't really get much different, was too scared to try on my 748R ohlins front n rear everything changed so dramatically with each click, then I thought bugger it, when I got the aprilia mille r ohlins again I sent the rear shock for a rebuild (Robert Taylor) excellent Job by the way then went to town on the front forks, and started adjusting untill i liked how it felt... I am riding faster then before and feel much safer. I can only imagine what it could feel like with somebody experienced with suspension tuning... One day! As said above this stuff isn't cheap, the rear shock was just shy of $600 but feels amazing, it actually works! Whaaaaaaat?!?

[AllanB]

$600 for the rear shock set for you is bloody good value I say.

People drop two or three times that all the time on a name brand exhaust.

[F5 Dave]

RRobert has said that ohlins recomended valving is miles away from how Dookatty specify it.

[AllanB]

RRobert has said that ohlins recomended valving is miles away from how Dookatty specify it.


I'd believe that. Ducati, regardless of the suspension maker is 'Euro firm' NZ roads unfortunately are not like the Autobahn.

Which reminds me I must post in rant and rave about the resealing on my most often covered road. Talk about fuck up a already fine road.

[layton]

$600 for the rear shock set for you is bloody good value I say.

People drop two or three times that all the time on a name brand exhaust.


for how to shock feels now, its a fantastic price.. but being the first time i had sent something away to be repaired i was shocked at how much it cost, but now knowing how much better it is and the fact it works as its supposed to, well thats worth the money.

i would love to send the front forks away aswell, but cant bring myself to send them with large wear marks on the fork leg and the gold coating on the staunches is wearing out.. probably cheaper to buy some later model ohlins and get them repaired.

[pritch]

I'd believe that. Ducati, regardless of the suspension maker is 'Euro firm' NZ roads unfortunately are not like the Autobahn.



True.

Road tests I've read in the past refer to the Ducati base models being more comfortable than the 'S' model which is Ohlins equipped. Ducati Ohlins are set to track specs. On our roads that can be bloody uncomfortable.

I thought the Ducati manual gave a hint as to the philosophy. The recommended front tyre pressure for my S4R was 32lb - unless you lived in an area with rough roads. The 32lb tyre pressure would risk damage to the rim.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah but ohlins specs have been totally different to Ducati's. Guess they want them to feel more racey on the test ride.

[SVboy]

Interestingly, my 15 Street triple R suspension [KYB] is very good from the factory IMHO. It was factory sprung in the right range for my weight so doing sags was easy. The clickers respond to one click adjustment that you can see through tyre wear patterns and while the factory rear linkage [to account for pillions]is a bit harsh and tends to kick through my spine on square edge bumps overall handling is very good.

[nzspokes]

Interestingly, my 15 Street triple R suspension [KYB] is very good from the factory IMHO. It was factory sprung in the right range for my weight so doing sags was easy. The clickers respond to one click adjustment that you can see through tyre wear patterns and while the factory rear linkage [to account for pillions]is a bit harsh and tends to kick through my spine on square edge bumps overall handling is very good.The forks on those are very over damped, light oil helps but they need a revalve.

If the rear is kicking you, try dropping some high speed comp.

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[F5 Dave]

My 11 STR is pre the 13 model change of your 15.
The rear spring was a 12 and stoopidly too heavy for my 80 and a lot.kg. put a 10kg spring from a ZX10.


Whereas the front Springs were too soft. Valving was whacko as well despite the base ingredients being good quality KYB.



Not sure what Triumph were playing at but very confused setup. Rode a mates STR after and remember how bad it was on sharp edges bumps.

[jasonu]

my 80 and a lot.kg..

fat cunt...:bleh:

[SVboy]

The forks on those are very over damped, light oil helps but they need a revalve.

If the rear is kicking you, try dropping some high speed comp.

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No high speed adjustment on strs,Daytonas only I guess. The harsh geometry of the rear link is well known, only fix is an aftermarket linkage, which makes it solo only. I will try 2.5 wt oil in the front when I do a change. Doubt I will have the bike long enough to merit a revalve.