State Of The Industry

[sidecar bob]

I've been having a look in on the Cycletreads thread & although I don't pay anyone to work on my bikes, I thought I'd relate a tale demonstrating the absolute either complete ineptitude, or dishonesty of a bike shop, which cost someone dearly. Fortunately I was the benefactor in this.
I won't name the shop, but to say, it is Auckland based.
As I have mentioned on here occasionally, I've been fanging around on a 250 maxi scooter in the city. It's the only way to get about in a hurry, economically & with a load for next to nothing.
Seeing as this has been panning out quite well for me, I have had an eye out for a Yamaha Tmax 500 to take it to the Next level & by Jove it really has. But enough about the surprising acceleration & big bike handling of the mighty Max. Here's how I came to own a great bike at a great price.
The Max had been at A bike shop for poor running, a WOF & new front tyre.
Invoice reads, fit new spark plugs, old ones fouled, attempt to replace air filter (clogged), no filter available in NZ, fit new front tyre & perform WOF inspection.
I purchased the bike immediately it came out of the bike shop as pretty much having a serious engine problem, causing fouled plugs, rings & such I guess they assumed.
Upon getting it home, the first thing I did was drain the oil & remove the filter.
From a bike that holds 2.8 litres of oil, I drained over 4 litres of filthy old oil.
Fitted new filter & filled with correct level of oil.
Next step was to take a look at the carbs, just visually, I had no intention of stripping them down at this point.
Undid one screw retaining a plastic panel, & there were the carbs. One had lost the auto choke retaining screw & plate & the choke mechanism had fallen half out of the carb, causing a permanently choke on situation on the R/h carb, helping to foul the plugs also.
Fortunately the missing parts were sitting on the mat that protects the carbs from road grime.
3 minutes & a Phillips screwdriver & the problem was solved. Warmed it up for a while & wound the air screws out a bit to obtain smooth idle.
On to the air filter that apparently needed replacing. This requires removal of the mirrors, screen & panel between the headlamps. A few screws were a bit seized, but I was most impressed with the bike shop's attention to detail, of re applying several years of road grime to all the screws & air cleaner lid after checking the filter, so as to make sure nobody could tell that they had been there.
Either that, or possibly they didn't even look at the air filter. I blew the filter out & im sure it won't need another for a few years.
I checked the tyre pressure & while they had fitted a new front tyre & done a WOF, the rear tyre had 12psi in it.
Not sure where these amateurs are trained, but it seems to be an industry wide problem.

[Grumph]

And they're getting away with it because most customers don't know enough to complain.

It's not new. I can quote the top mechanic at a shop here who was the best because he could charge out around 16 hours for an 8 hour day.
He made his boss a lot of money....

[Honest Andy]

That kind of lazy incompetence gives me the shits.
As a trained professional I've made a few mistakes but there's no excuse for the sort of shoddy work that you've described.
I wonder how much time and effort went into the invoice...?

[Scubbo]

terribad alright. seems to be creeping through to other shops to, perhaps hard times, but with good reliable service comes customers, margin for new bikes must be feck all compared to workshop labour but I guess you need to keep the other 50 people who do feck all in the business employed right?

I hear george at motorcycle doctors is run of his feet, must be doing something right (at about half the price of a stealership with free pickup-drop off.....)

[merv]

Mate, that is all quite ridiculous but not unexpected. I don't ever take my bikes to a shop once they are out of warranty, except the trail bikes I don't take back at all and trust they don't need a warranty to argue about, if they say I should let them service the bikes.

[merv]

As for the T Max I was quite impressed with them for a scooter when I saw them in Europe way back in 2010.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122468-I-always-try-to-snap-a-few-bike-pics-on-holiday?p=1129731159#post1129731159

[Katman]

The performance of one workshop does not define a profession. (As you should well know).

We all should be well aware there's dodgy motherfuckers in every line of work.

It's your job to work out who's who.

[jasonu]

I've been having a look in on the Cycletreads thread & although I don't pay anyone to work on my bikes, I thought I'd relate a tale demonstrating the absolute either complete ineptitude, or dishonesty of a bike shop, which cost someone dearly. Fortunately I was the benefactor in this.
I won't name the shop, but to say, it is Auckland based.
As I have mentioned on here occasionally, I've been fanging around on a 250 maxi scooter in the city. It's the only way to get about in a hurry, economically & with a load for next to nothing.
Seeing as this has been panning out quite well for me, I have had an eye out for a Yamaha Tmax 500 to take it to the Next level & by Jove it really has. But enough about the surprising acceleration & big bike handling of the mighty Max. Here's how I came to own a great bike at a great price.
The Max had been at A bike shop for poor running, a WOF & new front tyre.
Invoice reads, fit new spark plugs, old ones fouled, attempt to replace air filter (clogged), no filter available in NZ, fit new front tyre & perform WOF inspection.
I purchased the bike immediately it came out of the bike shop as pretty much having a serious engine problem, causing fouled plugs, rings & such I guess they assumed.
Upon getting it home, the first thing I did was drain the oil & remove the filter.
From a bike that holds 2.8 litres of oil, I drained over 4 litres of filthy old oil.
Fitted new filter & filled with correct level of oil.
Next step was to take a look at the carbs, just visually, I had no intention of stripping them down at this point.
Undid one screw retaining a plastic panel, & there were the carbs. One had lost the auto choke retaining screw & plate & the choke mechanism had fallen half out of the carb, causing a permanently choke on situation on the R/h carb, helping to foul the plugs also.
Fortunately the missing parts were sitting on the mat that protects the carbs from road grime.
3 minutes & a Phillips screwdriver & the problem was solved. Warmed it up for a while & wound the air screws out a bit to obtain smooth idle.
On to the air filter that apparently needed replacing. This requires removal of the mirrors, screen & panel between the headlamps. A few screws were a bit seized, but I was most impressed with the bike shop's attention to detail, of re applying several years of road grime to all the screws & air cleaner lid after checking the filter, so as to make sure nobody could tell that they had been there.
Either that, or possibly they didn't even look at the air filter. I blew the filter out & im sure it won't need another for a few years.
I checked the tyre pressure & while they had fitted a new front tyre & done a WOF, the rear tyre had 12psi in it.
Not sure where these amateurs are trained, but it seems to be an industry wide problem.

Name the shop and give them the chance to defend themselves.l

[Grumph]

The performance of one workshop does not define a profession. (As you should well know).

We all should be well aware there's dodgy motherfuckers in every line of work.

It's your job to work out who's who.

I understood that one of the principal functions of forums like this was to expose the dodgy motherfuckers - and endorse the good buggers....

As I posted earlier, most of the motorcycling population don't know enough to complain. And while car complaints get air time, bike ones don't attract the same publicity.

[sidecar bob]

Name the shop and give them the chance to defend themselves.l

They don't need to defend themselves, as I haven't named them because I'm not the poor bugger that gave the bike away for a knockdown price based on "professional advice" that it was toast.

[sidecar bob]

The performance of one workshop does not define a profession. (As you should well know).

We all should be well aware there's dodgy motherfuckers in every line of work.

It's your job to work out who's who.

Quite right, but the incidence of stuff like this is on the rise with the dumbing down of society, and the car & truck repair industry is just as bad, if not worse.
I don't think these guys were dodgy, just stupid. & apart from lying about the air filter, I think they genuinely thought the bike was rooted without even looking at the oil level through a small window.
If you can't plug it into a machine & get the answer printed on a screen, then it must be buggered & sold off cheap.

I'm aware of a car that received a second hand engine recently due to an awful sound coming from the the engine.
The only thing wrong with it was a strip of the main external front drive belt that had come away from the rest of the belt that was whacking on the trans cooler hose.
I don't think those guys were dodgy either, in fact I know they aren't, they simply failed to check all possibilities.

[Katman]

I understood that one of the principal functions of forums like this was to expose the dodgy motherfuckers - and endorse the good buggers....

See, isn't it funny how two people can read the same post and yet take two different meanings from it.

The original poster didn't expose anyone - but went on the suggest that his story was indicative of some industry wide standard.

[jasonu]

Quite right, but the incidence of stuff like this is on the rise with the dumbing down of society, and the car & truck repair industry is just as bad, if not worse.
I don't think these guys were dodgy, just stupid. & apart from lying about the air filter, I think they genuinely thought the bike was rooted without even looking at the oil level through a small window.
If you can't plug it into a machine & get the answer printed on a screen, then it must be buggered & sold off cheap.

I'm aware of a car that received a second hand engine recently due to an awful sound coming from the the engine.
The only thing wrong with it was a strip of the main external front drive belt that had come away from the rest of the belt that was whacking on the trans cooler hose.
I don't think those guys were dodgy either, they simply failed to check all possibilities.

Not stupid more like incompetent. People need to know where not to take their ride and hard earned cash to. As grumph said this is the place to name both the good and bad shops.

[OddDuck]

Understaffing and paying peanuts, would that be a part of this sort of thing happening? Agree on customers not knowing better, the days of backyard wrenching being a standard part of growing up appear to be over.

As per the others above, feedback is useful here - we all need good, honest mechanics, and the good ones deserve the income they earn.

[Grumph]

See, isn't it funny how two people can read the same post and yet take two different meanings from it.

The original poster didn't expose anyone - but went on the suggest that his story was indicative of some industry wide standard.

believe it or not - I was responding to your post, not Bob's...The fact I quoted you, not him should have given that away.
I was in point of fact agreeing in part with you. I realise this is unusual and forgive you for not recognising it.

[sidecar bob]

When I bought my R1200gs a few years back, I though, ok, this time I've done enough that I don't need or want to know how this bike comes apart, I just want to enjoy it the same as a person that doesn't have a clue how bikes even work.
Once to the dealer and I was completely cured of that kind of crazy thinking.

[nzspokes]

I bought a 1200 Bandit from a dealer. Took it back and told them it was leaking at the headers to the mid pipe.

Two days to fix and was told it was better than new.

It was leaking worse. I took it back. Mechanic laughed at me and said if he puts his hand over the tail pipe the motor will stop as he did such a great job.

It kept idling happly. He was pissed and could never fix it right.

Did it myself in the end.

[sidecar bob]

I bought a 1200 Bandit from a dealer. Took it back and told them it was leaking at the headers to the mid pipe.

Two days to fix and was told it was better than new.

It was leaking worse. I took it back. Mechanic laughed at me and said if he puts his hand over the tail pipe the motor will stop as he did such a great job.

It kept idling happly. He was pissed and could never fix it right.

Did it myself in the end.

You can't even make the idle change by holding your hand over a 4 stroke multi exhaust pipe, let alone stall the engine.:facepalm:

[geoffm]

My SV1000 got taken into MR Motorcycles for the 24000km service. They didn't plug the fan back in, SVs run warm and it boiled like a kettle (like really, really boiled) while stuck in traffic on a trip to wellington. Very hard to pull over on the hutt bridge and motorway and no water around.
Careless to say the least.

[tri boy]

Understaffing and paying peanuts, would that be a part of this sort of thing happening? Agree on customers not knowing better, the days of backyard wrenching being a standard part of growing up appear to be over.

As per the others above, feedback is useful here - we all need good, honest mechanics, and the good ones deserve the income they earn.

Paying peanuts is a fair comment. But also realise its only a motorcycle. Not important as say shelter, (ie a home) or fresh water etc.
Theres no real money in the industry because it is entertainment. Even a very basic machine like a pavement roller is worth far more than your average motorcycle.
Therfore monetry reward is pathetic compared with other trades like electricans, diseal mechanics etc.

These tradies are involved in industries with massive profits and untold work.
The truth is, its a hobby that supplies a few peanuts for the work. Unless your katman, Then all riders grovel to him, and hang onto every word he says.:rolleyes:

[jellywrestler]

Even a very basic machine like a pavement roller is worth far more than your average motorcycle.
are you saying that harleys are above average then?

[Berries]

No, he said they were best used as a pavement roller.

[Kickaha]

No, he said they were best used as a pavement roller.

roller or filler ?

[nodrog]

Paying peanuts is a fair comment. But also realise its only a motorcycle. Not important as say shelter, (ie a home) or fresh water etc.
Theres no real money in the industry because it is entertainment. Even a very basic machine like a pavement roller is worth far more than your average motorcycle.
Therfore monetry reward is pathetic compared with other trades like electricans, diseal mechanics etc.

These tradies are involved in industries with massive profits and untold work.
The truth is, its a hobby that supplies a few peanuts for the work. Unless your katman, Then all riders grovel to him, and hang onto every word he says.:rolleyes:

Are you having a laugh? Heard of farms?

[sidecar bob]

Are you having a laugh? Heard of farms?

Heard of cows?

[nodrog]

Heard of cows?

Flock me......

[spanner spinner]

Understaffing and paying peanuts, would that be a part of this sort of thing happening?

As above the reasons I got out of the industry. Trying to attract and hold on to good staff is next to impossible, and any good staff you do get or train up to a competent level are constantly being poached by other shops.

You mainly end up with staff who want to work in the motorcycle industry as they are motorcyclists. This is good to start with as the enthusiasm level is high, but if you want to be cured of your enthusiasm for your hobby do it for a job. New staff tend to think the job will be like being at a motorcycle rally, stand round all day talking motorcycles with the customers who come in the door but you get payed to do this. The reality is very different you need to extract every dollar you can out of the customers coming in the door with out ripping them off (as they then don't come back and you need that return business) as the margins are so tight and overheads at most shops are so high (rent wages etc) you need all the sales you can get just to survive, this doesn't leave a lot of time to just stand round shooting the breeze with some one who is not contributing to the business bottom line. And as under-staffing seem to be the norm you will be lucky to have time to stand round doing nothing.

watching the enthusiasm get ripped out of new staff by the job was never fun, and some of the realities of working in the industry hit hard. Many new staff think that you will get to ride all the new cool bikes coming out. In reality you don't often get to ride the new stuff as anything cool is in short supply as everyone wants one so are all presold to customers, and most shop owners don't want to many k's on the demos as it reduces there resale price so borrowing one for the weekend just to go for a ride on the new (insert make model here) is usually quite difficult.

And as the bikes get more electronics heaped onto them and get more and more technical the cost of the tooling you need to hold to repair them increases. But your average customer doesn't want to pay for this or your training or expertise as it just a toy and needs to be as cheap as possible to run to keep the holder of the household finances off there back. This pushes this cost back on the dealership and as the money for this has to come from somewhere it comes out of some other business operating cost, and wages are an easy place to start. As has been said pay peanuts get monkeys, but just remember this this monkey is working on you 300km per hour capable super-bike and you do not want it to go wrong at half that speed.

[tri boy]

Are you having a laugh? Heard of farms?

Priced a farm tractor compared to a mud bug?
Farm managers couldn't give a shit about 4 wheelers, But a cooked tractor/out of order milking shed gets their attention, (and the bank).

[nodrog]

Priced a farm tractor compared to a mud bug?
Farm managers couldn't give a shit about 4 wheelers, But a cooked tractor/out of order milking shed gets their attention, (and the bank).

Fuckin lol. Priced a decent quad and Service intervals against a road bike? That's where bike shops make money.

And you must know some fuckin useless farm managers, especially when most new quads and side by sides are sold with a service plan in place. where they are picked up and taken away to be serviced at set intervals by the shop. They even leave a loan bike while yours is getting the worlds most expensive service.

[TLDV8]

Late 2016 I decided I would get a new bike which ended up being a Honda Africa Twin DCT... I had contacted a large dealership by email close to where I lived north of Sydney but got no reply, so the next time I was home (28 days away/6 back) I dropped in, they seemed to change their tune when it was revealed i was a cash buyer and they seemed to have amnesia regarding my prior contact.
Anyway they said they had a manual bike on the way and I could test ride it, but it never showed up so I ended up buying one based on internet feedback.

I got them to send some pics in the crate, notice the chain and all they really had to do was fit the front wheel and mudguard along with the number plate and surround, the centre stand is free on the DCT but they would have to order it as a single item.

Anyway the day comes to pick it up in January 2017, they roll it from the showroom floor to outside (I was not allowed due to liability)
I notice the chain is tight and outside check it , the decal on the chain guard says 40 mm slack on the side stand, it has around 15 mm so ask what that is about.

They get a 'tech who is maybe 20 yo.... he informs me and I quote him... The chain will stretch over the first 1000 kms and at the first service the "filings" will come out with the first engine oil change.
I limped it home and adjusted the chain, after the first big ride (NSW to QLD, about 1000kms) I notice the two bolts holding the front fender on the l/h side have fallen out so I go over the bike.... the axle pinch bolts that side are, outer one super tight, the inner half of that.... I then notice their dealership number plate surround is on upside down and later find the bolt holding the battery ground cable to the engine is finger tight.... The centre stand took 12 months to turn up but did in the end, I got a recall for the circlip but it would be a two day job so declined... other than that its a great bike but has never seen a dealership since I rode it out the gate and never will.
Most likely just luck of the draw but of the three new bikes I have bought here since 2008 (DR650) all had some form of drama or dishonesty.

[sidecar bob]

The first Aprilia I bought brand new was delivered with 17psi in both tyres & the headlamp facing into the road.
When I enquired about buying that bike & asked for some info, the shop owner said "just google it, it's all there" when shit did go wrong with it under warranty, the shop owner got really aggressive with me & then shortly later started crying,
I think at that point I told him it sounded like he needed a good redhead to fuck, not sure where that came from, but clearly his issues were a bit bigger than mine at that time.
With the second Aprilia, different dealer, the first one had dropped them, when it went back for new tyres, I said they may as well give it a service, so they ran it up with it tied down over the genuine Aprilia titanium matt finish mufflers & melted the nylon tie downs onto the mufflers. Shortly after calling the shop & having a yarn with the manager, I received a threatening & abusive text from the mechanic that did the job saying I was probably going to cost him his job, why, because I fucked the mufflers? Anyway, nothing was done to remedy the problem & I heard that the mechanic committed suicide a couple of years later.
They were the same shop that hid the safety recall of a replacement swing arm from me which I was alerted to by a member on here. Their reason for not informing me "we don't make any money doing those recalls" Clearly a very tough industry.
Also, when you take your BMW to the main dealer for a service, what is "fluid $40"? & why does the service light come on within four days?

[Scubbo]

jesus the last 2 stories sound like servicing in india............................ :lol:

[pritch]

Over the years the bike shops have changed. The comment about bike shops being understaffed reminded me that when I started there were several bike shops in town, most had the owner who did sales and parts and sometimes mechanic if necessary, and there was an apprentice or mechanic.

In recent years there has been a population explosion in bike shops, one local dealer had the owner as sales and manager, his wife as "accounts", a salesman, an office girl, a parts man and a team of mechanics. If business slowed down the negative impact was swift.

The local shops seem to be running a tighter ship these days but still. It wouldn't pay to be a Honda dealer, it appears Bluewing don't even want to sell road bikes any more.

[nerrrd]

Speaking of Honda, which of the two central Auckland dealerships would anyone in the know recommend for a fairly major service - the only in Cycletreads now :eek5: or the one out east who are currently advertising for an experienced motorcycle mechanic on their website :eek5: ???

[Reckless]

Speaking of Honda, which of the two central Auckland dealerships would anyone in the know recommend for a fairly major service - the only in Cycletreads now :eek5: or the one out east who are currently advertising for an experienced motorcycle mechanic on their website :eek5: ???

I'll PM you a place out East.

[Scubbo]

I'll PM you a place out East.

makesure you talk to the engineers in the garage at those guyses place, the young fat dude behind the counter has NFI what hes talking about or quoting for and will quote you insane prices for anything OEM related. otherwise go Motorcycle Doctors (https://www.motorcycle-doctors.co.nz/), pickup/dropoff is usually free too.