Ryco oil filters

[Southern scratcher]

Anyone heard of any issues regarding use of Ryco oil filters in bike engines?
A guy in Aussie with damage to his engine heads was told by his dealer that Kawasaki wouldn't support his warranty because the damage was due to oil starvation due to lower oil pressure from the aftermarket Ryco Z436 oil filter he fitted.
I have the same bike as this guy (Ninja 400) and have been using the same filter since the 1000km first service. Now at 8,500km with no probs.
The dudes bike only has a bit over 1000kms on it and he changed the filter at 850kms so sounds like complete bull shit to me.

[sidecar bob]

Anyone heard of any issues regarding use of Ryco oil filters in bike engines?
A guy in Aussie with damage to his engine heads was told by his dealer that Kawasaki wouldn't support his warranty because the damage was due to oil starvation due to lower oil pressure from the aftermarket Ryco Z436 oil filter he fitted.
I have the same bike as this guy (Ninja 400) and have been using the same filter since the 1000km first service. Now at 8,500km with no probs.
The dudes bike only has a bit over 1000kms on it and he changed the filter at 850kms so sounds like complete bull shit to me.

What a load of cock.
I've run Z436 on my wife's yzf600 powered road race sidecar for a decade & its never suffered any damage from oil starvation.
I'd suggest Kawasaki found a loophole & used it by throwing Ryco under the bus.
Pretty shit business practice all round Really.

[SaferRides]

Don't use car filters on a motorbike.

[Southern scratcher]

Don't use car filters on a motorbike.

Any reason why not?

[Grumph]

Don't use car filters on a motorbike.


Any reason why not?

I'd like to know why not too. Please provide very good reasons.

[SaferRides]

Any reason why not?It avoids problems like this. Ryco don't recommend that filter, so he will have no comeback against them either.

[sidecar bob]

I'd like to know why not too. Please provide very good reasons.

if the filters aren't good enough for a motorbike then they're not good enough for a car either.
I have fitted thousands of Ryco filters & apart from the time when the machine in Thailand ran out of sealant for several days & every Z386 leaked there were no issues whatsoever.
Can someone point out where it's specifically excluded for motorcycle use.
https://www.ryco.co.nz/catalogue/part/index/part/Z436 New vehicle warranty protection?
The spring loaded valve in the centre allows filter medium bypass in the event of low flow, so that theory dosent wash either.

[pete376403]

Ryco themselves provide a warranty so if Kawasaki can prove that engine damage was a direct result of the filter, the owner would have a claim against Ryco

"During this voluntary warranty period, if any engine or equipment is damaged as a result of the use of a proven defective RYCO product, Ryco Group Pty Ltd will pay to restore the engine or equipment to a condition equivalent to the state of the engine or equipment immediately prior to the damage. Consequential damage claims will not be covered by this voluntary warranty." https://www.rycofilters.com.au/Page/Ryco_Guarantee_au

[sidecar bob]

Ryco themselves provide a warranty so if Kawasaki can prove that engine damage was a direct result of the filter, the owner would have a claim against Ryco

"During this voluntary warranty period, if any engine or equipment is damaged as a result of the use of a proven defective RYCO product, Ryco Group Pty Ltd will pay to restore the engine or equipment to a condition equivalent to the state of the engine or equipment immediately prior to the damage. Consequential damage claims will not be covered by this voluntary warranty." https://www.rycofilters.com.au/Page/Ryco_Guarantee_au

There's a clause in there that says "has not been installed in accordance with the vehicle, engine, or equipment manufacturers recommendations"
If Kawasaki specify that a genuine filter must be used during the warranty period then it's no claim either way.
Its all politics.

[Woodman]

If ryco do not recommend a z436 for the kawasaki then there is no warranty.

[husaberg]

Anyone heard of any issues regarding use of Ryco oil filters in bike engines?
A guy in Aussie with damage to his engine heads was told by his dealer that Kawasaki wouldn't support his warranty because the damage was due to oil starvation due to lower oil pressure from the aftermarket Ryco Z436 oil filter he fitted.
I have the same bike as this guy (Ninja 400) and have been using the same filter since the 1000km first service. Now at 8,500km with no probs.
The dudes bike only has a bit over 1000kms on it and he changed the filter at 850kms so sounds like complete bull shit to me.

The warranty always states it is void unless parts used are as recommended by the manufacturer. sorry Bob never seen your post saying the same,.but some pattern parts are shit, The manufacture shouldn't pay for damage for cheap oil and filters being used or other stuff. Shit ,they shouldn't be touched by the owner as well that voids most of the warranty as well.

[sidecar bob]

If ryco do not recommend a z436 for the kawasaki then there is no warranty.

I'm not aware that they specifically did.
Did you find info to that end?

[Woodman]

I'm not aware that they specifically did.
Did you find info to that end?
Its in the link that pete376403 posted. Copied and pasted below.

has not been installed in accordance with current Ryco published catalogue vehicle listings

[husaberg]

Its in the link that pete376403 posted. Copied and pasted below.

has not been installed in accordance with current Ryco published catalogue vehicle listings

For that ryco policy to be applicable, it has to be the filter than is the proven cause of the engine damage......... plus satisfy all the other get out of jail free fineprint.

[SaferRides]

If ryco do not recommend a z436 for the kawasaki then there is no warranty.

They don?t. There is a Ryco motorcycle filter catalogue and it recommends one of their motorcycle filters for the Ninja 300. They don?t have a recommendation for the 400.

[sidecar bob]

They don?t. There is a Ryco motorcycle filter catalogue and it recommends one of their motorcycle filters for the Ninja 300. They don?t have a recommendation for the 400.

I believe the 400 is from the 650 clan rather than the 300 one.

[SaferRides]

There have been many discussions on various US forums about oil filters for motorcycles. The Holy Grail for the Yanks seems to be do it cheap with Shell Rotella oil and $2 Supertech filters from Walmart.

Whatever. But I don't know enough to make an informed decision, so I use OE filters in the R1, which are made by Denso to Yamaha specs. They are like NZ$30 here, but I buy them from the US for about $15. Probably cheaper than Ryco.

[Woodman]

For that ryco policy to be applicable, it has to be the filter than is the proven cause of the engine damage......... plus satisfy all the other get out of jail free fineprint.

Even if the filter is the cause, if ryco say it isn't for that vehic le then their is no claim on ryco.

[husaberg]

Even if the filter is the cause, if ryco say it isn't for that vehic le then their is no claim on ryco.

yip............. and cause Kawasaki said it can only use approved parts and service agents they wash their hands also.
Manufacturers can be real a-holes with warranty claims sometimes.
Years ago we had a fleet of couriers and Ford used to be a-holes about the gearboxs blaming the drivers etc
We had a few Mazdas inherited from a merger, Mazda just replaced them and said there was a fault no issue.
Same with the radiators on the 4WD the fan could hit them under some circumstances, Ford knew this and when the radiators and the Fords cooked they moved the radiator forward while still claiming it wasn't a fault blaming the drivers for going through eater and all sorts of other crap.

[Woodman]

yip............. and cause Kawasaki said it can on;ly use approved parts and service agents they wash their hands also.
Years ago we had a fleet of couriers and Ford used to be a-holes about the gearboxs blaming the drivers etc
We had a few Mazdas inherited from a merger, Mazda just replaced them and said there was a fault no issue.
Same with the radiators on the 4WD the fan could hit them under some circumstances, Ford knew this and when the radiators and the Fords cooked they moved the radiator forward while still claiming it wasn't a fault blaming the drivers for going through eater and all sorts of other crap.
Actually kawasaki cannot void a warranty if parts are not genuine or they don't do the service themselves. But in this case they may have a point if only a legal point as i can't see how a filter with a bypass valve can alter pressure. The bike owner is screwed either way here.

[husaberg]

Actually kawasaki cannot void a warranty if parts are not genuine or they don't do the service themselves. But in this case they may have a point if only a legal point as i can't see how a filter with a bypass valve can alter pressure. The bike owner is screwed either way here.

youre right
thats silly of them

AM I REQUIRED TO TAKE MY KAWASAKI VEHICLE TO AN AUTHORIZED KAWASAKI DEALER FOR SERVICE AND MAINTENANCE WORK?

No, but we request that you keep written records and receipts showing that the service and maintenance work has been performed according to the schedule of maintenance in your Owner's Manual.

CAN I DO MY OWN OIL CHANGES?


Yes, but we request that you keep written records and copies of receipts showing the oil changes were done.

that's out of the yank one which is the only one i can find

[Grumph]

So to sum up....If your bike is out of warantee or used on the track, it's fine to use Ryco filters.

If your bike is still in warantee BUT Ryco has no listing for your specific model - even if they have one the right size and shape - don't use them.

If they do have a specific listing, yes, fine.

Personal experience shows me that Ryco are as good as anything on the market. I have no hesitation using them.

[Scubbo]

be interested to see / hear what the oil starvation issue was from -- was it not leveled right to begin with? was it realllllly the filter? --- bike wasnt looking like a 2 stroke before it leaned out was it lol? --- pretty hard to blame the oil filter but I guess like insurance, any hang up is a way to get off paying

[Grumph]

be interested to see / hear what the oil starvation issue was from -- was it not leveled right to begin with? was it realllllly the filter? --- bike wasnt looking like a 2 stroke before it leaned out was it lol? --- pretty hard to blame the oil filter but I guess like insurance, any hang up is a way to get off paying

IMO if they're blaming it on "lower oil pressure" due to a more restrictive filter then the supply to the heads is marginal anyway.
How it works is that the relief valve will still hold the system pressure at the correct figure. If the flow volume is reduced then yes, damage can occur.
It'd be interesting to hear what if any lower end damage has been done.

Also be interesting to see if there's a recall or a tech bulletin about it.

[pete376403]

Considering the low mileage of the failed bike = "The dudes bike only has a bit over 1000kms on it and he changed the filter at 850kms" - wouldn't the first service at around 1000km be required to be done by the dealer to maintain warranty?

I know some Kawasakis (KLRs) are known to have lots of oil related cylinder head failures, but thats always a result of oil starvation from low oil level, not lack of pressure.

[Scubbo]

I know some Kawasakis (KLRs) are known to have lots of oil related cylinder head failures, but thats always a result of oil starvation from low oil level, not lack of pressure.


what I was thinking! seems more like user failed to service the bike proper themselves --- not doing it at dealer for first run and having major fail is really rare bad luck or bad self servicing...

[Katman]

what I was thinking! seems more like user failed to service the bike proper themselves --- not doing it at dealer for first run and having major fail is really rare bad luck or bad self servicing...

Just curious....

What is your level of mechanical knowledge and aptitude?

[husaberg]

Just curious....

What is your level of mechanical knowledge and aptitude?:msn-wink::tugger:
342462
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/174599-Alternative-fuels?p=1130863607#post1130863607

[HenryDorsetCase]

If the thing is still under warranty you might find that unless a Kawasaki filter is used that is installed by an approved factory trained technician, in the specifically factory approved hermetically sealed workshop that makes the HRC MotoGP shop look like a back yard chop shop, using only platinum and iridium plated factory Kawasaki service tools, and only after singing the Kawasaki corporate song, and doing the company approved calisthenics and the company approved 45 minutes of Zen meditation, then it ain't covered. Just saying.

[Grumph]

If the thing is still under warranty you might find that unless a Kawasaki filter is used that is installed by an approved factory trained technician, in the specifically factory approved hermetically sealed workshop that makes the HRC MotoGP shop look like a back yard chop shop, using only platinum and iridium plated factory Kawasaki service tools, and only after singing the Kawasaki corporate song, and doing the company approved calisthenics and the company approved 45 minutes of Zen meditation, then it ain't covered. Just saying.

And for a suitable fee, you'd be prepared to argue that of course, LOL.

I do wonder, given that the original owner mentioned here is Australian and did his own first service, just how far from civilisation he is.
It's entirely possible he's at the back of beyond, well out of feasible reach of a dealer....

[Woodman]

How do they know that the filter reduced oil pressure?
Have they tested it? I doubt it.
My guess is that they have seen a lubrication failure snd a non genuine filter and jumped to a conclusion that suits them.

[husaberg]

If the thing is still under warranty you might find that unless a Kawasaki filter is used that is installed by an approved factory trained technician, in the specifically factory approved hermetically sealed workshop that makes the HRC MotoGP shop look like a back yard chop shop, using only platinum and iridium plated factory Kawasaki service tools, and only after singing the Kawasaki corporate song, and doing the company approved calisthenics and the company approved 45 minutes of Zen meditation, then it ain't covered. Just saying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLbCVTW0O0c
https://img.ifunny.co/videos/77ca2a130e4c1a65f4b419e1f429d2b921635f23815b0948df f3b75b501934c8_1.mp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9jsnAD4aNw

[pete376403]

A long time ago (1972) I had a warranty claim rejected by Laurie Summers Ltd, who were the Kawasaki distributors at the time. Bike in question was an F9 Bighorn. Failure was the rotary disc valve had shredded and gone into the inlet port and from there, destroyed the piston. Bike was within warranty period, but warranty was rejected because they claimed there was sand in the carburettor cavity, even though the air filter (genuine Kawasaki!) was installed and all the rubber boots, etc were securely installed. Apparently I should have known to "apply a thin film of grease to the inside surfaces to trap any dirt", even though the owners manual stated nothing of the sort. No consumer guarantees act in those days.

maybe the Aussie guy is just experiencing normal motorcycle warranty delivery

[sidecar bob]

Just curious....

What is your level of mechanical knowledge and aptitude?

Logs off feeling smug & slightly superior.<_<

[Scubbo]

Just curious....

What is your level of mechanical knowledge and aptitude?

just shy of 11 inches on a good day with a nice project :msn-wink:

[Grumph]

How do they know that the filter reduced oil pressure?
Have they tested it? I doubt it.
My guess is that they have seen a lubrication failure snd a non genuine filter and jumped to a conclusion that suits them.

Probably true.

If you want a laugh at filtration, the Benelli 650 twin is a superb example. Rare in NZ, i've built a couple.
Typical italian roller bearing bottom end - and typical italian filtration, a fine gauze screen in the pump pickup.
Their US distributor convinced them to add a disposable filter element when they wanted to sell in the US.
So they did. A bypass filter. What it does is take some of the oil pump output and run it through a filter element in the center of the engine, underneath the crank. When I worked out where it goes after that I didn't initally believe it. It simply squirts the oil exiting the filter cavity straight up against the underside of the crank. Not into any bearing or collector for distribution, straight onto a balance web.
In this case as I've pointed out to owners, the more restrictive the filter element, the better the oil pressure in the engine as more is put into the lubrication output side of the pump.

[SaferRides]

A long time ago (1972) I had a warranty claim rejected by Laurie Summers Ltd, who were the Kawasaki distributors at the time. Bike in question was an F9 Bighorn. Failure was the rotary disc valve had shredded and gone into the inlet port and from there, destroyed the piston. Bike was within warranty period, but warranty was rejected because they claimed there was sand in the carburettor cavity, even though the air filter (genuine Kawasaki!) was installed and all the rubber boots, etc were securely installed. Apparently I should have known to "apply a thin film of grease to the inside surfaces to trap any dirt", even though the owners manual stated nothing of the sort. No consumer guarantees act in those days.

maybe the Aussie guy is just experiencing normal motorcycle warranty deliveryKawis did that sort of thing quite often back then. My first bike seized about halfway up the Bombay Hills after a few minutes of full throttle. They did fix it under warranty.

[SaferRides]

IMO if they're blaming it on "lower oil pressure" due to a more restrictive filter then the supply to the heads is marginal anyway.
How it works is that the relief valve will still hold the system pressure at the correct figure. If the flow volume is reduced then yes, damage can occur.
It'd be interesting to hear what if any lower end damage has been done.

Also be interesting to see if there's a recall or a tech bulletin about it.I never cease to be amazed by what you can find on line...

A Purolator Pure 1 filter for a LS1 engine has a pressure drop of 4 psi at 40 lpm with hot oil (95?C). LS1 filters have no pressure relief valve. This rises to 7 psi at 15 lpm. Can't imagine a Ninja 400 pump flowing anything like that volume.

Pure 1 filters would generally be considered restrictive; in fact Purolator warn against using them in motorbike engines.

Obviously the pressure drop will be much higher with cold oil, but then the relief valve should open.

[Woodman]

I never cease to be amazed by what you can find on line...

A Purolator Pure 1 filter for a LS1 engine has a pressure drop of 4 psi at 40 lpm with hot oil (95?C). LS1 filters have no pressure relief valve. This rises to 7 psi at 15 lpm. Can't imagine a Ninja 400 pump flowing anything like that volume.

Pure 1 filters would generally be considered restrictive; in fact Purolator warn against using them in motorbike engines.

Obviously the pressure drop will be much higher with cold oil, but then the relief valve should open.
To be fair ls1's are notorious for having crazy sensitive oil pressure.

[SaferRides]

To be fair ls1's are notorious for having crazy sensitive oil pressure.Sorry, I missed out that the test was done on a test rig by Purolator. No engine involved.

[Owl]

Pure 1 filters would generally be considered restrictive; in fact Purolator warn against using them in motorbike engines.

And how many failures documented with bikes using Pure One filters? Perhaps they don't recommend them because they want to push their cheaply made (China) ML motorcycle filters?