Brakes Locking Up

[rastuscat]

Apparently brakes lock up on their own. Or at least according to the person who wrote this complaint to the local council.

"There is a very dangerous amount of gravel build up on a few of the intersections on this road, I've nearly come off my motorcycle due to the brakes locking up on it. It's hard to see early in the morning and traffic is going quick, so you're braking quite hard from a high speed."

Am I wrong to think that the rider could do something to reduce the risk, by not braking hard at high speed, and learning to read the road surface better?

[Scubbo]

this is why everyone should learn to ride with dirt bikes on dirt and gravel and sand before going on the road :innocent: and that chap needs to get himself into a car asap and save us all some ACC $$

[Navy Boy]

I'm with you on this Rastus. Yes roads should be in an acceptable state but responsibility for one's actions and all that too. Is this an example of the modern culture of 'Everything must be someone's fault' so prevalent in other countries (I'm thinking the UK especially...)?:yes:

[HenryDorsetCase]

Is it a gravel road, like?

[pritch]

Apparently brakes lock up on their own. Or at least according to the person who wrote this complaint to the local council.

"There is a very dangerous amount of gravel build up on a few of the intersections on this road, I've nearly come off my motorcycle due to the brakes locking up on it. It's hard to see early in the morning and traffic is going quick, so you're braking quite hard from a high speed."

Am I wrong to think that the rider could do something to reduce the risk, by not braking hard at high speed, and learning to read the road surface better?

One would hope. One would also hope that the council maintained their roads in safe condition. He mentions traffic so it's possible he doesn't get a lot of warning. If his letter prompts some action by the council that's not a bad thing.

[rastuscat]

Is it a gravel road, like?

No, a sealed road with a build up of gravel at an intersection.

No doubt the gravel should be tidied up, or removed. No doubt at all.

But when a rider says "I've nearly come off due to my brakes locking up" I always cringe. Brakes don't lock up without being poorly applied.

[russd7]

its just one of those luck things I guess,
when ya gotta slow quickly at an intersection its just unlucky if there is gravel build up, im guessing the intersections this person is talking about are poorly marked with all the traffic around etc.
now where is that sarcasm button

[Grumph]

No, a sealed road with a build up of gravel at an intersection.

No doubt the gravel should be tidied up, or removed. No doubt at all.

But when a rider says "I've nearly come off due to my brakes locking up" I always cringe. Brakes don't lock up without being poorly applied.

True only up to a point. If the rider in question is travelling on main roads in say, Selwyn, (for the sake of argument) the traffic streams are usually close to or above the speed limit in the commute times. Following distances are too close as well. I'd point out here that if you allow more distance, you get passed...
Now given the amount of road works required on these roads - and the absolute piss poor maintenance of them - I'm not surprised at the complaint of having to use heavy braking on poor surfaces.
I am however surprised at it's having made it's way down the chain to you. Normal practise appears to be to shelve any complaints except those from influential farmers or the family of councillors.
Perhaps it's the fact of it having been a motorcyclist - and you're the resident expert...

Sadly the answer has already been posted - change to a car. the infrastructure is designed around them, not bikes.

[GazzaH]

Even riding (or driving!) reasonably sensibly, I've been caught out by gravel marbles collecting in deadspots from time to time. Also diesel, puddles or ice. It happens. Bit of a wake-up call though.

[Subike]

I read that this rider has experienced this several times on the same road, would not once be enough to remember the location and be prepared? Or is the "speed" he is talking about on the higher end of the scale. I am sure that when I find a place on my regular commute to work that had gravel like explained, I would remember where and be prepared. Or would he prefer the Ice on the road where this gravel may have been placed to prevent skids , At this time of the year, there is always gravel to be aware of, rather that than ice, especially before sunrise,

[BMWGSER]

Send the rider a thank you note with a ride for ever voucher, bronze of course .
And send the sweeper out , noticed the gravel around the corner from home it’s getting worse after being resealed about 3 months ago these roading contractors are not getting any better these days.

[F5 Dave]

Send the rider a thank you note with a ride for ever voucher, bronze of course .
And send the sweeper out , noticed the gravel around the corner from home it’s getting worse after being resealed about 3 months ago these roading contractors are not getting any better these days.
Goly raytus.

You sound a bit holly than thou

ITS EASY TO BE CAUGHT OUT BY GRAVEL. HATE THE STUFF ops sorry for the Caps.


So as a dirt rider and fuck it best you bring your game up. I still find gravel where I don't expect it a real challenge..


So tell me in your holy presence that you ate better than me so therefore Imunume from danger.

[Laava]

It's hard to see early in the morning

I think I see the problem. Relax, sleep in a bit more, have a proper coffee, talk to your kids. Don't rush off like a mad cunt.

[Temporary-Kiwi]

I think he's talking about that ultra small lead shot sized gravel- near impossible to spot at any speed other than walking pace, plus the road sweepers often dont remove it, it can be easy to lock up yur brakes on for sure, but it can be overcome by using rear and fr brakes, when fronts lock, slight modulating lever pressure will regain grip without greatly reducing braking, unless your really nailing your fr brakes, lane position is also helpful as the wheel track positions usually give more consistent grip

[Grumph]

The problem is possibly exacerbated by a local phenomenon. In times of heavy frosts here, council contractors are supposed to grit the main roads.
It's a reactive process - they'll do it after there's been a frost, not before. No signage usually. Random application too. You might get frosts for two or three days with ice visible and no sign of grit trucks - then after a day without frost, suddenly there's grit down.

I wouldn't care to commute on a bike here. I suspect I'm in the same area as the original complainer. Would Rastuscat care to confirm the council involved ?

[Berries]

Well firstly he raised it with the council. He should be commended for that given most will do nothing and others will come on to KB and whinge and moan about them instead. If there actually is "a very dangerous amount of gravel build up on a few of the intersections on this road" then the council should heed the complaint, go and check it out and get it swept before someone else hits it, falls off and ends up in a wheelchair. I am assuming this has already been done, so how bad was it?


Am I wrong to think that the rider could do something to reduce the risk, by not braking hard at high speed, and learning to read the road surface better?
Clearly the rider should change his behaviour, and perhaps he has although his excuses do make him sound inexperienced. The only thing for certain is that this publicly minded rider is unlikely to go to the trouble of reporting something similar in the future if he stumbles on this thread so in the end we all lose out.

[Old Steve]

I once struck something similar in Tauranga, on a street which came down on to the Strand with a Give Way. Contractors had just painted the Give Way line across the lane and were using white paint with small reflective pellets sprinkled on top of it. Trouble was you couldn't really see the extra pellets which weren't stuck to the top of the paint and these were like a layer of marbles, it just looked like a bit of spray drift outside the line but this was loose particles. Luckily I was slowing to get a good look for oncoming traffic, but the bike did a little wiggle as she came to a stop across the newly painted line.

I phoned the council and reported the problem and told them that now they had been advised of the problem they would be liable for any motorbike accident on the site and that this liability would extend to them not requiring their contactors to clean up excess particles after painting lines on the road.

I came back through that intersection about an hour later and the excess particles had been swept away and I never saw excess particles on road painting after that.

I've found that the word 'liability'carries great weight in the business world.

[jellywrestler]

I once struck something similar in Tauranga, on a street which came down on to the Strand with a Give Way. Contractors had just painted the Give Way line across the lane and were using white paint with small reflective pellets sprinkled on top of it. Trouble was you couldn't really see the extra pellets which weren't stuck to the top of the paint and these were like a layer of marbles, it just looked like a bit of spray drift outside the line but this was loose particles. Luckily I was slowing to get a good look for oncoming traffic, but the bike did a little wiggle as she came to a stop across the newly painted line.

I phoned the council and reported the problem and told them that now they had been advised of the problem they would be liable for any motorbike accident on the site and that this liability would extend to them not requiring their contactors to clean up excess particles after painting lines on the road.

I came back through that intersection about an hour later and the excess particles had been swept away and I never saw excess particles on road painting after that.

I've found that the word 'liability'carries great weight in the business world.

they are bead blasting beads, and are as dangerous as ice simply in a decent quantity as they are literally glass marbles they are supposed to be applied with the paint at a metered rate, occasionally they don't. I had a big transit long wheel base van that skidded in these. Report any incidents very loudly to the police and insist they get there right then as in reality it doesn't look like anything hazardous but is.

[rastuscat]

they are bead blasting beads, and are as dangerous as ice simply in a decent quantity as they are literally glass marbles they are supposed to be applied with the paint at a metered rate, occasionally they don't. I had a big transit long wheel base van that skidded in these. Report any incidents very loudly to the police and insist they get there right then as in reality it doesn't look like anything hazardous but is.

The duty for police to ameliorate hazards is even enshrined in law.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1998/0110/166.0/DLM434539.html?search=sw_096be8ed8179e177_ameliora te_25_se&p=1&sr=1

[Subike]

Back in the mid 1980"s the council resurfaced a road outside a club rooms, it was not swept for three weeks, they were not happy with the painting and recrome bill that came from a lawyer for 14 bikes having to be refurbished because of their laziness, . The council had been asked several times to sweep that road, the memo must have got lost. My bike looked better than when I bought it, ……some you win some you loose.

[oldiebutagoody]

I have a vague memory of something legal-like being done because of loose gravel and lack of signage, way way back in the late eighties or early nineties.

I think (but am not sure) that a group of riders took legal action against the national roading authority of the time regarding the application of pea gravel on bends and road surfaces in general such as at intersections and areas requiring braking etc.

If I recall correctly a court case ensued after an injury accident occurred, however due to ACC laws the case was taken over damage to the motorcycles instead. Said court found in favour of the plaintiff, and occasioned a watershed change in the policies of the roading authority and their workers/contractors nationally. Traffic management/signage/road sweeping after application of gravel were the policies bolstered as a direct result of the court case.....(if I recall correctly. please correct me if I am incorrect)

Is it not time to start doing this again? I know new sealing in my area is routinely left to "self sweep" by traffic volume alone. I also think one of the group involved was actually a lawyer too so may be the reason it was instigated. In the end it had at the time far reaching positive effects on the quality of work by coal-face crews on roading projects nationally.

Does anyone else recall this???

[FJRider]

Does anyone else recall this???

If so ... explain grit left on roads in frost prone areas after the frost has gone ... ???

I have heard of a punter who had taken the local council to court for damage to his vehicle after a loose gravel incident ... in a road works site. In court he admitted there WAS a temporary speed restriction there at the time ... but he "might" have been going a "bit" faster than the signs indicated he should be traveling at.

He lost the case.

Those that continue to ignore those temporary speed zone signs ... beware. Some can bite you quite hard ...

[rastuscat]

Following distances are too close as well. I'd point out here that if you allow more distance, you get passed...


A bit of a thread dredge here, but I just kept thinking about this, and can't help myself.

The most widely used excuse for following too close is that if you leave a decent following distance e.g. 2 seconds, some numpty will pass you and take that space.

Now, on every Ride Forever course I take, Gold, Silver, Bronze, Urban Commuter, Scooter Survival, I run out a 20 metre tape measure. Just to show people what the legally required distance at 50 kmh should be. Without exception, people tell me that if they leave that space, someone will overtake them. This happens so often I should make a video about it.

I then challenge them all to maintain a 2 second distance all day during the ride, and count the number of people who take their space. I ask them to count, and add up at the end of the day.

Again, without exception, people find that it is nowhere near as bad as they suggest it is.

Firstly, it only tends to happen on multi lane roads. Someone in the adjacent lane takes the space ahead of you. Someone you'll never meet, driving a car that you'll never see again. SO WHAT. Let them have the space, let them drift out, claim back the space. It's not a competition.

I have very, very rarely had anyone, on a single lane road, overtake me in order to take my space. I leave a 2 second distance, expect when I'm further back. And people don't overtake me. I own my lane, I do the speed limit, and if they want to go faster to overtake, all good.

In the event that some plonker follows right up my butt, I let them get past too. I don't care if they get past, I'd rather they did. I have more control when they are ahead of me, not behind.

A decent following distance just gives in some many ways

It allows us to do a decent surface appraisal. We can see dodgy road surfaces, when we still have time to do something about it.
We are far more visible when we are not tucked up the butt of the vehicle ahead.
We have far better view to the front and sides when we don't tuck ourselves into the blind spots behind a vehicle.


There's just so much value in maintaining a good following distance. And so few justifications for not doing it.

[Blackbird]

Got to agree with you Pete and let's add something to the point you're making. You rightly say SO WHAT to being overtaken. In most cases, what's the impact of that in terms of affecting the time taken to get wherever you're going? To use a technical term - eff all! You're still going at much the same speed as you were before. It was driven home to me a few years ago before we permanently moved to our current location. It was approximately 200 km from home in Tokoroa to our place in Coromandel. Quite often, my wife would travel in the car and I'd ride the Blackbird. The most I could ever put on her was 15 minutes with her being legal and me "making progress" on a few of the Waikato back roads. Sort of brings the impatience factor into perspective.

[SaferRides]

I do tend to be a bit more chilled driving these days; maybe it's my age or perhaps I've just decided that survival is more important than getting through traffic quickly. But one thing that does scare me sometimes is driving back into Auckland along the southern motorway in the early evening. There never seem to be any cops patrolling from say Mercer north at that time (shift change?), and it's not unusual to find yourself coming down the Bombay Hills in a line of cars doing about 120 with the front few vehicles, usually including a couple of utes, separated by about 2 car lengths.

I slow down, pull over to the left lane, and leave them to it. If something went wrong, it would be spectacular.

[rastuscat]

I slow down, pull over to the left lane, and leave them to it. If something went wrong, it would be spectacular.

That's one of the best things about growing up. Being able to sit back and enjoy the ride.

I'm getting a lot of satisfaction from hogging the left lane these days, sitting on the cruise control at or about the speed limit. If I come across someone going slower, I change lanes, get past, then change back to the left lane.

I started a thread a few years back on here about the left lane being the new fast lane. There are so many people who don't know how to use lanes properly, who just sit out in the right lane for no reason at all. I often find I can make better progress in the left lane.

Part of growing up, I guess.

[sidecar bob]

Back in the mid 1980"s the council resurfaced a road outside a club rooms, it was not swept for three weeks, they were not happy with the painting and recrome bill that came from a lawyer for 14 bikes having to be refurbished because of their laziness, . The council had been asked several times to sweep that road, the memo must have got lost. My bike looked better than when I bought it, ……some you win some you loose.

A known bit of unswept Tarmac & fourteen bikes go down in the same place while arriving or leaving?
That's priceless.:killingme
It's always someone else's fault when a Harley hits the deck.

[Hawk]

Apparently brakes lock up on their own. Or at least according to the person who wrote this complaint to the local council.

"There is a very dangerous amount of gravel build up on a few of the intersections on this road, I've nearly come off my motorcycle due to the brakes locking up on it. It's hard to see early in the morning and traffic is going quick, so you're braking quite hard from a high speed."

Am I wrong to think that the rider could do something to reduce the risk, by not braking hard at high speed, and learning to read the road surface better?

Surly if he / she is aware of the hazard they should ride accordly often at this time of year gravel is put on roads for another reason Ice especially in shaded areas example Waimak gorge. My recommendation a Ride Safe Course may help.

[Hawk]

Send the rider a thank you note with a ride for ever voucher, bronze of course .
And send the sweeper out , noticed the gravel around the corner from home it’s getting worse after being resealed about 3 months ago these roading contractors are not getting any better these days.

I was told by a road contracting company by contract terms they have 24 hrs to sweep a resealed road before before they are in breech. I tried to get payment for a a belt which picked up a stone from a unsweept road repair.

[jellywrestler]

I was told by a road contracting company by contract terms they have 24 hrs to sweep a resealed road before before they are in breech. I tried to get payment for a a belt which picked up a stone from a unsweept road repair.

how did you get on sueing harley for not having a suitable guard that a stone could get in there?

[jellywrestler]

Back in the mid 1980"s the council resurfaced a road outside a club rooms, it was not swept for three weeks, they were not happy with the painting and recrome bill that came from a lawyer for 14 bikes having to be refurbished because of their laziness, . The council had been asked several times to sweep that road, the memo must have got lost. My bike looked better than when I bought it, ……some you win some you loose.

so the first rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the second rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the third rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the fourth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the fifth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the sixth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the seventh rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the eighth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the ninth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the tenth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the eleventh rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the twelfth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
then the thirteenth rider didn't think to do something to stop another rider going down?
did the fourteenth rider think to do something to stop another rider going down?

What were the club rooms, the blind foundation?



the thing is loose gravel is rarely a surprise to the alert. when there's gravel on a road and it's loose, it will be picked up by a vehicle, usually this starts with the first one through, it will be dropped from the vehicle a bit up the road . When a bike hits these small bits they get picked up and flick into the metal parts, engine front, mudguard and make a noise. This sound alerts a rider to think gravel, the frequency gets more intense when they get closer to the hazadous patch simply.
We had some roadwhales go down over in the wairarapa a while back, about three at once. They kicked up a stink about the road and gravel yet the first four bikes on thay ride right in front went through ok. seems real odd to me

[Hawk]

how did you get on sueing harley for not having a suitable guard that a stone could get in there?

Not Harley

[jellywrestler]

Not Harley

yeah but someone copied harley having belts so the blame game must go back to them surely?

[F5 Dave]

My lathe has a belt. It has a cover but I'll be careful if I'm using it on a gravel road, which hasn't been a problem so far, but you know?

[Scuba_Steve]

Without exception, people tell me that if they leave that space, someone will overtake them.

Why is this a concern to people?
If someone is faster than you you have a courteous & legal responsibility to let them pass; We have laws like 'keep left unless overtaking' & 'failure to leave space for passing vehicle' (altho that one is exempt when speed limit is 50km/h or less) in part for that reason

[SaferRides]

Why is this a concern to people?
If someone is faster than you you have a courteous & legal responsibility to let them pass; We have laws like 'keep left unless overtaking' & 'failure to leave space for passing vehicle' (altho that one is exempt when speed limit is 50km/h or less) in part for that reasonI think it's part of Kiwi drivers' psyche. It used to be worse - I remember as a young driver in an underpowered car that slow drivers would often speed up when you tried to overtake.

[rastuscat]

Why is this a concern to people?
If someone is faster than you you have a courteous & legal responsibility to let them pass; We have laws like 'keep left unless overtaking' & 'failure to leave space for passing vehicle' (altho that one is exempt when speed limit is 50km/h or less) in part for that reason

How remarkably grown up of you. Sadly, it's not commonly held.

[jellywrestler]

Why is this a concern to people?
If someone is faster than you you have a courteous & legal responsibility to let them pass; We have laws like 'keep left unless overtaking' & 'failure to leave space for passing vehicle' (altho that one is exempt when speed limit is 50km/h or less) in part for that reason

it's got less to do with driving a vehicle than people percieving queue jumping, and why the fuck should you get ahead of me....

[pritch]

A bit of a thread dredge here,

It may happen on multi lane highways, out here on the rural rump they don't exist. If you are riding a bike and get overtaken by a car you're likely doing it wrong.

[speedpro]

... it's not unusual to find yourself coming down the Bombay Hills in a line of cars doing about 120 with the front few vehicles, usually including a couple of utes, separated by about 2 car lengths.

I slow down, pull over to the left lane, and leave them to it. If something went wrong, it would be spectacular.

Before it was discovered that "speed kills" and the penalties were vastly increased it was not uncommon to end up in a whole line of vehicles coming down the Bombay Hills at the end of a weekend all doing 140K+. I don't remember any stories of pile ups or anything spectacular happening. We are talking about a perfect multi line divided highway. My suggestion is if you can't control a modern vehicle on this bit of road at any speed then you should not be driving.

[speedpro]

I remember as a young driver in an underpowered car that slow drivers would often speed up when you tried to overtake.

I've fixed that problem. The Toyota Blade gets past most without too many problems. Nice change from the Legnum.

[Autech]

No, a sealed road with a build up of gravel at an intersection.

No doubt the gravel should be tidied up, or removed. No doubt at all.

But when a rider says "I've nearly come off due to my brakes locking up" I always cringe. Brakes don't lock up without being poorly applied.


I've fixed that problem. The Toyota Blade gets past most without too many problems. Nice change from the Legnum.

She the 3.5?

[F5 Dave]

I thought about one as my 2nd ever car (after 30 year gap). But I couldn't face the embarrassment of anyone asking what I drove.

. . . So, do you think you're vampire hunter? Or fancy Scott Watson's boat?

[speedpro]

She the 3.5?

Yep. bought for the motor, and what a cracker in a Toyota Corolla. Thank goodness for traction control. But must admit the electronics are equally brilliant. Play a CD once and it is saved to the hard drive, adaptive cruise control, full collision avoidance including seatbelt tensioner, autotint mirrors, and a stunning interior. The transmission is near perfect as well. Little things like the reversing camera red and yellow lines curve as you turn the wheel, and the interior lights.

[SaferRides]

Yep. bought for the motor, and what a cracker in a Toyota Corolla. Thank goodness for traction control. But must admit the electronics are equally brilliant. Play a CD once and it is saved to the hard drive, adaptive cruise control, full collision avoidance including seatbelt tensioner, autotint mirrors, and a stunning interior. The transmission is near perfect as well. Little things like the reversing camera red and yellow lines curve as you turn the wheel, and the interior lights.

Sounds decent. How’s the understeer?

[speedpro]

It isn't a VW golf for sure. But I didn't buy it so I could pretend to be fast through twisties. Twisties are hard to find nowadays on the trips I take plus there is often a trailer on the back. The truly effortless driving is why I bought it and going by the total lack of go-fast bits I expect I'm a typical owner. Lotus did use the motor albeit with a supercharger and in fact when I was looking to buy it I came across a Blade in Taupo with a supercharger. Supposedly 350hp same as the Lotus I think.

[rastuscat]

This one fell off when he had to brake because the car ahead of him braked.

It was drizzling, the road was wet, and his brakes locked up. Down he went.

The surface was flushing. Tar bleed. Its scheduled for resealing this summer. In the meantime we have put up slippery surface signage.

How about riders learn to use a 4 second following distance on wet roads, and learn not to use the front brake so heavily on slippery surfaces.

[Taxythingy]

How about riders learn to use a 4 second following distance on wet roads, and learn not to use the front brake so heavily on slippery surfaces.

Naa. Too difficult. There's a bunch of people who just can't understand that shit happens, that they can and do make mistakes, and that their driving/riding is actually shit.

Was overtaken by a super-pro driver / Lincoln uni student this morning. His first attempt would have sent him in to the truck turning into a driveway. He couldn't see past my small car so didn't know until he was out and partly alongside. And that was with me driving to the left just to help him see and slowly braking to give time and a hint. Not sure what more I can do to help.

[rastuscat]

Not sure what more I can do to help.3

I work in road safety. Most days I feel like I'm pissing into the wind.

There are some basic, easy free things people could do to improve their safety. But most just dont get it.

And because they haven't binned yet, they dont see the need to change. Until it's too late.

Then they blame someone or something else, when its they who could have avoided the bin for free.

[FJRider]

This one fell off when he had to brake because the car ahead of him braked.

It was drizzling, the road was wet, and his brakes locked up. Down he went.

The surface was flushing. Tar bleed. Its scheduled for resealing this summer. In the meantime we have put up slippery surface signage.

How about riders learn to use a 4 second following distance on wet roads, and learn not to use the front brake so heavily on slippery surfaces.

Did the "I wasn't Speeding" statement be heard ... ???

[Berries]

The surface was flushing. Tar bleed. Its scheduled for resealing this summer. In the meantime we have put up slippery surface signage.

How about riders learn to use a 4 second following distance on wet roads, and learn not to use the front brake so heavily on slippery surfaces.
Is that what you told him or did you save it for KB?

Slippery when wet signs are a cheap arse covering exercise. Of course it fucking is. Next they will be putting signs up that say dark at night. Most of the driving population don't associate those signs with SCRIM deficiencies. You'd be better off having a go at NZTA and the council for having roads that are, frankly, not fit for purpose. Waiting until the surface is flushed is not really the safe system approach is it?


I work in road safety. Most days I feel like I'm pissing into the wind
You'll get over it, once you realise it is inevitable that some people are fuckwits and even those that aren't can make mistakes. Do that at anything above walking pace and you are going to get messed up.

[rastuscat]

Is that what you told him or did you save it for KB?

Slippery when wet signs are a cheap arse covering exercise. Of course it fucking is. Next they will be putting signs up that say dark at night. Most of the driving population don't associate those signs with SCRIM deficiencies. You'd be better off having a go at NZTA and the council for having roads that are, frankly, not fit for purpose. Waiting until the surface is flushed is not really the safe system approach

It's not possible, with the current funding model, to keep all roads at a coefficient of friction at 0.7 or greater all the time.

Road resurfacing is scheduled months if not years ahead. For every one that's done, theres a dozen more that could do with it.

No, I didn't tell him that. In today's "the customer is always right" world, honestly is not encouraged.

[SaferRides]

Worse than the slippery when wet signs are the "temporary" speed limits while they wait for the road to be resurfaced. The locals ignore the signs when it's dry, but the tourists don't know and slow down.

And of course the police could turn up one day for some revenue gathering...

[Berries]

It's not possible, with the current funding model, to keep all roads at a coefficient of friction at 0.7 or greater all the time.

Road resurfacing is scheduled months if not years ahead. For every one that's done, theres a dozen more that could do with it.
Yeah, I deal with this every day in my job and the crashes that sometimes result so I get all that. I just don't think it acceptable to put signs up to warn people about deficient road surfaces unless they actually tell you the surface is deficient. We finally got a change so the signs say SLOW WHEN WET rather than just WHEN WET which is subtle but at least tells you to slow down in the wet. Still does not tell you the road is fucked though and that bikes especially need to be careful.

I understand the funding constraints. They will have to change if TPTB want to pay more than lip service to the vision zero approach that we are moving to.


Worse than the slippery when wet signs are the "temporary" speed limits while they wait for the road to be resurfaced. The locals ignore the signs when it's dry, but the tourists don't know and slow down
.
Yes, I foresee a return to Limited Speed Zones to cover this. The signs should be a combo of temp speed limit and road surface but NZTA won't have a bar of it. Don't blame the tourists here for doing what the sign says.

[Autech]

I would love to know if the money we are putting in to our roads is being spent efficiently and the people putting it down are actually skilled enough to do so. Far too many roads end up worse off after a crew has been through "fixing" it.
Be interesting to see what a German engineer would make of our efforts

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[pritch]

3

I work in road safety. Most days I feel like I'm pissing into the wind.

There are some basic, easy free things people could do to improve their safety. But most just dont get it.

And because they haven't binned yet, they dont see the need to change. Until it's too late.

Then they blame someone or something else, when its they who could have avoided the bin for free.

I've mentioned this before but it fits here. As you observe, people don't get it - and they won't. Nothing in the evolution of human beings has prepared us for motorised transport.

Couple that with the undeveloped cerebral cortex of people under 25 and you have two reasons why people are unable to link actions with consequences.

"The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle" by Berndt Spiegel discusses such things in detail, and a whole lot more. Currently available from The Book Depository NZ$57.83 freight free. The author, formerly a psychology lecturer, later a motor industry research scientist, is an experienced recreational motorcyclist and former racer. Of the forty odd motorcycling books I have here I'd rate this the most serious, certainly the most scholarly.

[Blackbird]

"The Upper Half Of The Motorcycle" by Berndt Spiegel discusses such things in detail, and a whole lot more. Currently available from The Book Depository NZ$57.83 freight free. The author, formerly a psychology lecturer, later a motor industry research scientist, is an experienced recreational motorcyclist and former racer. Of the forty odd motorcycling books I have here I'd rate this the most serious, certainly the most scholarly.

+1! You have to read it several times in places to get what he's driving at but it is indeed an excellent book. Fits in well with the Police Motorcycle Roadcraft manual 😁

[Subike]

A known bit of unswept Tarmac & fourteen bikes go down in the same place while arriving or leaving?
That's priceless.:killingme
It's always someone else's fault when a Harley hits the deck.

Oh the bikes didn't go down, the stones flew up and chipped the paintwork. Loose gravel on the road is not something that will stay put on the road, it likes to fly from tyres into the air, Have you never lost a windscreen or had a stone flung up at you when following a car? It so happened that this section of unswept road was outside a club rooms. Stone chips are not nice, especially when because, somebody did not get the Massy Ferguson with a mechanical broom off the work truck and do their contracted job.

[F5 Dave]

I've mentioned this before but it fits here. As you observe, people don't get it - and they won't. Nothing in the evolution of human beings has prepared us for motorised transport.

Couple that with the undeveloped cerebral cortex of people under 25 and you have two reasons why people are unable to link actions with consequences.
.

. . .

There you go with your evolution theory again. Its only a theory. I believe we were created.

To ride 2 strokes:Punk:

Thank the good lord below.

[FJRider]

YYes, I foresee a return to Limited Speed Zones to cover this. The signs should be a combo of temp speed limit and road surface but NZTA won't have a bar of it. Don't blame the tourists here for doing what the sign says.

Put Temporary speed limit signs in a (normally) 100 km/hr zone that has no obvious sign of roadworks or damage to the road surface ... and what speed will they (or ANYBODY) will travel on it .. ???

[F5 Dave]

That's because road crews have cried Wolf so many times people dont believe it

[FJRider]

That's because road crews have cried Wolf so many times people dont believe it

If "People" can't SEE an issue ... they ignore the warning (signs). They crash and "It wasn't MY fault, they didn't say what the problem was" ...

The road crews have their rules. VERY strict guidelines they have to follow. Ignore those warnings at your peril.

BUT ... don't do the "I didn't know/see what the issue was".

[F5 Dave]

Ahh Fuck Off!

Up my winedy street they always put work signs on the worst corners so you have to steer around them into incoming traffic. Its fucking dangerous for no reason. I wish they would all go to hell.

With jesus. Who likes it there.

[Stylo]

Ahh Fuck Off!

Up my winedy street they always put work signs on the worst corners so you have to steer around them into incoming traffic. Its fucking dangerous for no reason. I wish they would all go to hell.

With jesus. Who likes it there.

The path you take up the winedy street is best taken one step at a time , I guess.

Thanks for that. Jesus loves you F5.

[FJRider]

... Up my winedy street they always put work signs on the worst corners so you have to steer around them into incoming traffic. Its fucking dangerous for no reason. I wish they would all go to hell.

I once had a woman drive into the front of my car in a roadworks area ... because HER side of the road was blocked. Wait until the traffic goes past. Much safer ... ;)

[pritch]

You have to read it several times in places to get what he's driving at

I'm glad you thought that. 'Cause I definitely had to.

[Scuba_Steve]

I would love to know if the money we are putting in to our roads is being spent efficiently and the people putting it down are actually skilled enough to do so. Far too many roads end up worse off after a crew has been through "fixing" it.
Be interesting to see what a German engineer would make of our efforts

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

I can help with that

Q.I would love to know if the money we are putting in to our roads is being spent efficiently
A. No! Double so when the NZTA is involved

Q. the people putting it down are actually skilled enough to do so
A. No (well depending on whose metric of "skilled" you use)

[Autech]

I can help with that

Q.I would love to know if the money we are putting in to our roads is being spent efficiently
A. No! Double so when the NZTA is involved

Q. the people putting it down are actually skilled enough to do so
A. No (well depending on whose metric of "skilled" you use)Time to rise up against the gummant I think.
Too many taxes being spent poorly.

Sent from my SM-A730F using Tapatalk

[jellywrestler]

It's not possible, with the current funding model, to keep all roads at a coefficient of friction at 0.7 or greater all the time.

.

so they've only got a 70% target rate at the best of times, that's a bit behind the eight ball is it not?

[jellywrestler]

Oh the bikes didn't go down, the stones flew up and chipped the paintwork. Loose gravel on the road is not something that will stay put on the road, it likes to fly from tyres into the air, Have you never lost a windscreen or had a stone flung up at you when following a car? It so happened that this section of unswept road was outside a club rooms. Stone chips are not nice, especially when because, somebody did not get the Massy Ferguson with a mechanical broom off the work truck and do their contracted job.

and all these people got paid out, I call absolute bullshit, how did they prove it was that gravel and that gravel alone, the councils insurance would have laughed at them, and laughed fucking loudly too.

[rastuscat]

so they've only got a 70% target rate at the best of times, that's a bit behind the eight ball is it not?

I'm talking a coefficient of friction. If the coefficient of friction is too high we'd be on here bitching about excessive tyre wear. 0.7 is actually quite good.

[eldog]

I once had a woman drive into the front of my car in a roadworks area ... because HER side of the road was blocked. Wait until the traffic goes past. Much safer ... ;)

Your sure it wasn't Cas♤♡◇☆ ¿ :shifty:
It wasn't outside a school crossing?

Couldn't resist the temptation.

[Autech]

Your sure it wasn't Cas♤♡◇☆ ¿ :shifty:
It wasn't outside a school crossing?

Couldn't resist the temptation.

No doubt under pressure to keep up with the other cars going through the road works

[pritch]

No doubt under pressure to keep up with the other cars going through the road works

Chortle. You do see that all the time though, the idea that if their side of the road is blocked they stop until the way is clear just doesn't occur to them. If their lane is blocked they use yours.

[caseye]

Your sure it wasn't Cas♤♡◇☆ ¿ :shifty:
It wasn't outside a school crossing?

Couldn't resist the temptation.

WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT! The mere thought of that biatch being anywhere alive is enough to make me sick!

[husaberg]

WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT! The mere thought of that biatch being anywhere alive is enough to make me sick!

Dont feel that you need to tone down your response, give it to us straight.
From memory someone thought they found the troll previously known as C!*^% active on trademe message boards or something.
If you were still a mod i would ask you to look through my PM's to see who it was.:msn-wink:

[sidecar bob]

Dont feel that you need to tone down your response, give it to us straight.
From memory someone thought they found the troll previously known as C!*^% active on trademe message boards or something.
If you were still a mod i would ask you to look through my PM's to see who it was.:msn-wink:

Oh, you mean Peter from Christchurch?

[husaberg]

Oh, you mean Peter from Christchurch?

Twas you, i was looking under pm's from Grumph

[FJRider]

No doubt under pressure to keep up with the other cars going through the road works

Under pressure to keep up with the cars going in the opposite direction.

On reflection ... probably WAS Cassina.

[eldog]

Chortle. You do see that all the time though, the idea that if their side of the road is blocked they stop until the way is clear just doesn't occur to them. If their lane is blocked they use yours.

Too true. See it everyday.
Every one out for themselves.
I seem to be one of the few who can usually wait.
I also give way to vehicles which are bigger than me.


WASH YOUR MOUTH OUT! The mere thought of that biatch being anywhere alive is enough to make me sick!

:bash: got it.

To OP, yes excess gravel is a problem in some places.
Some are obvious, some are sign posted, some are not.

Yes we are all heroes and bulletproof at times.
But we should be aware of what might be and be able to effect changes to how we ride depending on what we encounter. We should be intelligent enough to realise what the situation is/could be and alter our riding to suit. If we are unable to cope we should get help/tuition or practice as in this case being able to slow/stop/steer our steed in this situation.

The street that i live in was recently laid with bitumen/chip. Excess was laid on as is usual to allow vehicles to compact any loose chip into the bitumen. However there was no coming back and removing the remainder excess after a few days. There were long narrow strips of chip on the road which you couldn't see. One late night after a ride, I had forgotten about these as I usually use the car, but found the whole bike sliding under slight braking. I realised that releasing the brake slightly was the correct thing to do while keeping the throttle slowly decreasing.

The point is I was aware of the possibility of sliding and or locking up the brakes and took proper countermeasures myself to minimize the drama.

There are some situations were the public needs to contact the people involved to get it rectified.
They should also practise encountering such hazards.

Question:
Are you better than your motorcycle?
Are you able to use all of your skills?
How can you become a better rider?

Ok I took the thread off the OP original purpose.
Wasn't intended. But it did highlight for me not to become complacent when riding, all the time, everywhere.

[scumdog]

Apparently brakes lock up on their own. Or at least according to the person who wrote this complaint to the local council.

"There is a very dangerous amount of gravel build up on a few of the intersections on this road, I've nearly come off my motorcycle due to the brakes locking up on it. It's hard to see early in the morning and traffic is going quick, so you're braking quite hard from a high speed."

Am I wrong to think that the rider could do something to reduce the risk, by not braking hard at high speed, and learning to read the road surface better?



So he knows these intersections have this hazard from past experience - but doesn't ride accordingly?

[rastuscat]

So he knows these intersections have this hazard from past experience - but doesn't ride accordingly?

We got another one like that last week. Local bloke complaining about a road he travels on every day causing his brakes to lock up.

[Berries]

We got another one like that last week. Local bloke complaining about a road he travels on every day causing his brakes to lock up.
Hmm, I am starting to see a pattern here. I am just not sure whether it is poor maintenance in your area or you feeling the need to post about anyone who goes to the trouble of complaining about it.

I'm assuming you made some calls and got the gravel cleaned up at the intersection in the OP.