60minutes tonight (tv3)! (17 October 2005)

[InDeSkyz]

FYI: Bike built to run on water.

[Ixion]

The legnedary Spragthorpe Wheezehound Continental !. Perhaps the company has finally brought out the MK II. Those plans DID survive the blitz.

[froggyfrenchman]

yup, im waiting... have to see this!

[Mental Trousers]

I was wondering when that was on. I caught the last part of the ad and missed which show it was and time etc.

[Mental Trousers]

Ugh. The clown is riding around the carpark without a farken helmet on ffs.

Hope someone around here has taped it and can encode and torrent it.

[k14]

roflmao, that guy has definately sucked in tv3 on that one.

[Monsterbishi]

Hardly worth watching, they chucked a sniffer on the exhaust and it had a typical petrol reading for the CO & HC's, his excuse was that it was because of the oil within the engine was mixing with the water and that was what was causing it!

Even funnier was they burned a paper cup with some of his supposed fuel, and it went out as soon as it reached it, yet somehow a sparkplug manages to ignite it...

[pyrocam]

just watched it.

intresting.

if its a hoax then cool, it will spark intrest and get more people looking at it.
if its not then WOOOHOOO

just give it a proper seat and a headlight wouldnt be a bad idea (you think it was a fairing from inbetween the forks?)

[onearmedbandit]

That was, umm, interesting to say the least.

[ZorsT]

it can't run on water, water will not compress so when the piston comes up, something will break...

He said the only thing he changed was something in the carby...

[N4CR]

Okay... seen this.

First thing was electrolysis used to do something to the water... ok yep make hydrogen, fair enough.

The KEY here was the 'hdd coolers' stuck to the side of the tank, which looked quite icy. If you are a geek you realise they are just large waterblocks used for cooling hard drives with water. http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/asetek/blocks/hdd/
Like so.
If he were to supercool them with refridgerant it could alter the water to do something with the hydrogen that comes off through electrolysis. I have no idea what or how... (chemists please) but yeah, seems to work eh.

Or it could just be running on a litre left in the fuel lines :lol:


I would love it if this is true.

[tl_tub]

Just remember, people used to believe the world was flat! What does it hurt you to believe in it? Its going to happen eventually, though whatever magical equipment we develop.

[WINJA]

I THINK THAT CLOWN WAS EDDY "THE HEAT" TONGALAHI , EX WORLD CHAMP KICK BOXER ,YOU SHOULD TELL HIM OFF.
FUCK I HOPE THIS ISNT A HOAX , IF THIS GUYS FOR REAL THEN HES GONNA BE RICHER AND MORE RESPECTED THAN ANY ONE IN THE WORLD EVER.
40 YEARS AGO IF YOU SAID YOUVE INVENTED A SYSTEM WHERE INFORMATION IS READ FROM A DISC WITH LIGHT PEOPLE WOULDA SAID BULLSHIT

[tl_tub]

Also.. Why a motorbike.. Does it have something to do with high compression and carburation? :psst:

[N4CR]

it can't run on water, water will not compress so when the piston comes up, something will break...

He said the only thing he changed was something in the carby...

If it was sprayed in as vapour from the carbs, it would never be compressed fully (as the piston never goes above TDC which is not 100% compression of the cylinder) before igniting with the hydrogen, or perhaps his process makes it that under pressure the hydrogen comes out and the oxygen IN the water comes out also... :msn-wink:

[SPORK]

Hmm, I'm of two minds over this. Can't tell if this is true or dream.

Chances though he'll get assasinated though :(

[WINJA]

it can't run on water, water will not compress so when the piston comes up, something will break...

He said the only thing he changed was something in the carby...
LIQUAD PETROL DOES NOT COMPRESS EITHER

[What?]

... water will not compress so when the piston comes up, something will break...
It will if it is a vapour.
You can't compress liquid petrol, either.

[Warren]

I can't believe she seemed to think that this was at all possible. I suppose she has a stroy to make.

[WINJA]

Okay... seen this.

First thing was electrolysis used to do something to the water... ok yep make hydrogen, fair enough.

The KEY here was the 'hdd coolers' stuck to the side of the tank, which looked quite icy. If you are a geek you realise they are just large waterblocks used for cooling hard drives with water. http://www.viperlair.com/reviews/cooling/liquid/asetek/blocks/hdd/
Like so.
If he were to supercool them with refridgerant it could alter the water to do something with the hydrogen that comes off through electrolysis. I have no idea what or how... (chemists please) but yeah, seems to work eh.

Or it could just be running on a litre left in the fuel lines :lol:


I would love it if this is true.
IF I DID A DEMO IN FRONT OF A CAMERA ID PUT SOME DECOYS ON MY CONTRAPTION TO THROW YOU OFF

[What?]

BLUDDY WINJA- MUST HAVE A FASTER CONNECTION THAN ME!

[WINJA]

Also.. Why a motorbike.. Does it have something to do with high compression and carburation? :psst:
HARDER TO HIDE A SECOND FUEL TANK ON A BIKE

[k14]

If he were to supercool them with refridgerant it could alter the water to do something with the hydrogen that comes off through electrolysis. I have no idea what or how... (chemists please) but yeah, seems to work eh.
I'm no chemist but from what I've learnt is that when you cool water it turns to something else, forgot the name, oh yeah thats right its called ice.

When perform electrolysis on water it seperates the hydrogen and oxygen and they bubble off as gas. They don't stay inside the water. I thought that the next thing he would do is pull out his swiss army knife and fix the bike with it :rofl:

[WINJA]

BLUDDY WINJA- MUST HAVE A FASTER CONNECTION THAN ME!
NAH HES JUST TALKING ABOUT MY SPECIALTY GAS , LIQUADS , PISTONS , COMPRESSION ETC , SLOW CONECTION FAST BRAIN

[Aiolos]

IF THIS GUYS FOR REAL THEN HES GONNA BE RICHER AND MORE RESPECTED THAN ANY ONE IN THE WORLD EVER.

Ever heard of Nikolai Tesla (http://www.uncletaz.com/library/scimath/tesla/) and his automobile (http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html)?

[tl_tub]

IM A BELIEVER, I COULDNT LEAVE HER IF I TRIED!

[avgas]

I have a saying
"If i looks like a 350 Goose,
Smells like a 350 Goose,
Sounds like a 350 Goose..........you know the rest"

Little part of me doesnt want me to think/hope this guy isnt full of shit.
How can it cost 15c/L as well if there is no power source to that box? BS

[Monsterbishi]

HARDER TO HIDE A SECOND FUEL TANK ON A BIKE

It's a old trick, plumb the fuel line into the frame, drill a scond feed for the carb that looks like a mount or brace, and you're away laughing.

[WINJA]

Chances though he'll get assasinated though :(
THE BLACK ISLANDER RIDING THE BIKE WOULD BE HIS BODY GUARD

[WINJA]

It's a old trick, plumb the fuel line into the frame, drill a scond feed for the carb that looks like a mount or brace, and you're away laughing.
THE TOYOTA MECHANIC LOOKED FOR THAT SECOND FEED

[WINJA]

I have a saying
"If i looks like a 350 Goose,
Smells like a 350 Goose,
Sounds like a 350 Goose..........you know the rest"

Little part of me doesnt want me to think/hope this guy isnt full of shit.
How can it cost 15c/L as well if there is no power source to that box? BS
TAX OF COURSE

[InDeSkyz]

The folks in this house arn't quite believing this dudes story. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[N4CR]

I'm no chemist but from what I've learnt is that when you cool water it turns to something else, forgot the name, oh yeah thats right its called ice.

When perform electrolysis on water it seperates the hydrogen and oxygen and they bubble off as gas. They don't stay inside the water.

Nah what I meant was in terms of electrolysing then getting hydrogen out, cooling the mix back down and then warming up, somehow makes the water components (H and O) more prone to seperating in the combustion chamber. Might do some shit like when you get electrons moving around shells and stuff... 6th form physics here >_<

I really don't know lol... just a stab in the dark.

[TonyB]

Wasn't there a dude in Chch many many moons ago who had a mini that ran on water? Wasn't he found impaled on a hay bayler?

[crashe]

So why did they have a Toyota CAR mechanic from Toyota Albany look at the bike and not a motorbike mechanic...
Surely it would have seemed wiser to get a bike mechanic to check it out.. after all they specialise in m/bikes and not cars.

And this story was about m/bikes running on water.

I guess we will all have to wait one year as thats when his patent comes throu. Then we will find out if its true or a hoax.

[Ivan]

This aint no hoax

[speights_bud]

If its such a big deal and he's damn serious about it why dont they hurry the fucken patent up? meanwhile we are paying too much for our fuel while everyone waits in anticipation (a whole year!) just to find out whether he's a tit-puller or not.

Also, Electrolysis requires an electrical currentwhich he claims that there is no battery hidden inside his little box.
Might i add that HE WILL NOT DRINK THE PRODUCT WHICH COMES OUT OF THE BOX!. as though the box has changed its molocular formula, and note that he says it runs on a 'WATER BASED FUEL' indicating that it is not just water in the solution.

Detail people!

[WINJA]

So why did they have a Toyota CAR mechanic from Toyota Albany look at the bike and not a motorbike mechanic...
Surely it would have seemed wiser to get a bike mechanic to check it out.. after all they specialise in m/bikes and not cars.

And this story was about m/bikes running on water.

I guess we will all have to wait one year as thats when his patent comes throu. Then we will find out if its true or a hoax.
TO MOST VIEWERS A CAR MECHANIC FROM TOYOTA WOULD BE MORE CREDIBLE THAN A GREASE MONKEY FROM COLEMANS OR RED BARON.
THAT BIKES PRETTY SIMPLE EVEN TO THE WORST CAR MECHANIC

[Monsterbishi]

THE TOYOTA MECHANIC LOOKED FOR THAT SECOND FEED

Yay for the dumb mechanic then, Toyota hid a inlet restrictor bypass system on their GT4 WRC car for a good chunk of a season before it was caught by the officials!

What the guy is doing is a old scam, push a wonder-device, apply for the patent, and then try and free-load the item before it's discovered as a fraud.

[k14]

Nah what I meant was in terms of electrolysing then getting hydrogen out, cooling the mix back down and then warming up, somehow makes the water components (H and O) more prone to seperating in the combustion chamber. Might do some shit like when you get electrons moving around shells and stuff... 6th form physics here >_<

I really don't know lol... just a stab in the dark.
You'll have to elaborate on that "electrons moving around in shells and stuff" bit. Electrons are what make up the atoms, hydrogen can't get trapped inside or by an electron if thats what you are getting at.

The emission test is what screwed him over, how does the carbon get in there if all thats in water is Hydrogen and Oxygen. That means he was adding in some hydrocarbon of some sort to the mix. Thats assuming he hasn't modified the bike to use fuel from somewhere else.

Oh yeah and crashe, it doesn't matter if it was a motorbike mechanic, its still a internal combustion engine. They work the same in a car as a bike, he is more than qualified to comment on it.

[WINJA]

note that he says it runs on a 'WATER BASED FUEL' indicating that it is not just water in the solution.

Detail people!
THATS THE ONLY HOLE I COULD FIND IN HIS STORY

[Warren]

I think my method of a water powered motorcycle is different to his, but I do let share it with people. I only ask that if you find this method of powering your motorbike useful that you send me $5 in the mail. I will detail below how my method works.

1. You need a large tank of water (50L+) as my method is not as efficient as his. You will also need a bucket.

2. The tank is placed on the rear seat of the motorcycle but you will get better effiency if it is placed on small stilts.

3. The water then passes through a paddle wheel (this is the important bit). The force of the spinning paddle wheel is then used to directly power the rear wheel.

4. The water is collected in the bucket where it can be re-used by putting the water back in the main tank.

Please PM me for the address to send your money.

[avgas]

Ever heard of Nikolai Tesla (http://www.uncletaz.com/library/scimath/tesla/) and his automobile (http://www.2012.com.au/Tesla_auto.html)?
Maybach n Buggati arent dead......
Tesla also assumed this:
The universe is infinte, but current flows through it all, so it requires and infinite voltage - since energy is conserved, and and infinite voltage is required to push the current through infinite space......Power is therefore infinite.
If power dissipate in the universe, into heat, is infinite - the universe is destroyed.
Stupid infanitely small charges, at infinite distance in space crap.

Anyhow, that bike was kinda cool lookin i'll give him that

[willy_01]

"Na that carbon came from the oil mixing with the water!" hmmm if this was such a big find you'd think he would make sure his rings were sweet.

Bull shit people, plain and simple

[avgas]

I think my method of a water powered motorcycle is different to his, but I do let share it with people. I only ask that if you find this method of powering your motorbike useful that you send me $5 in the mail. I will detail below how my method works.

1. You need a large tank of water (50L+) as my method is not as efficient as his. You will also need a bucket.

2. The tank is placed on the rear seat of the motorcycle but you will get better effiency if it is placed on small stilts.

3. The water then passes through a paddle wheel (this is the important bit). The force of the spinning paddle wheel is then used to directly power the rear wheel.

4. The water is collected in the bucket where it can be re-used by putting the water back in the main tank.

Please PM me for the address to send your money.
Hang on to this idea mate......i had one involving ones legs and peddles.....some bastard stole it.
DAMN YOU RALEIGH!!!!!! I'LL GET YOU SOME DAY

[avgas]

"Na that carbon came from the oil mixing with the water!" hmmm if this was such a big find you'd think he would make sure his rings were sweet.

Bull shit people, plain and simple
Yeh imagine how much oil he goes through......mabey thats the where the 15c comes from

[willy_01]

it uses oil maybe its a new 3 stroke?

[speights_bud]

THATS THE ONLY HOLE I COULD FIND IN HIS STORY
I agree (dammit) but yes there is more to it than pure H2O. And until the damnpatent comes through we wont know what its made up of, unless someone fancy's taking on that bodyguard of his to 'borrow' some fuel.

[WINJA]

I agree (dammit) but yes there is more to it than pure H2O. And until the damnpatent comes through we wont know what its made up of, unless someone fancy's taking on that bodyguard of his to 'borrow' some fuel.
THAT BODY GUARD PUNCHED ME IN THE FACE ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO AND IT FUCKEN HURT AND IT WAS FUCKEN FAST AND I DIDNT SEE IT COMING

[speights_bud]

Well next time you write him angry letters in CAPITALS, Make sure you leave your helmet on! :whistle:

[N4CR]

You'll have to elaborate on that "electrons moving around in shells and stuff" bit. Electrons are what make up the atoms, hydrogen can't get trapped inside or by an electron if thats what you are getting at.


I didn't really understand it back at school, but periodic tables are made up of like neutrons and shit in the nucleus and then how many electrons, what im thinking is it changes that stuff to make a different material/liquid or something through that process, basically making the water more volatile.

[Hammer]

The emmissions bit made me lets say very sceptical!!!

[Beemer]

I have a saying
"If i looks like a 350 Goose,
Smells like a 350 Goose,
Sounds like a 350 Goose..........you know the rest"

Hey, all you guys are just jealous - if it does turn out to be true, at least he's proven it works on MY bike - woo hoo! :niceone:

[speights_bud]

I didn't really understand it back at school, but periodic tables are made up of like neutrons and shit in the nucleus and then how many electrons, what im thinking is it changes that stuff to make a different material/liquid or something through that process, basically making the water more volatile.
Hence he will not drink the 'WATER BASED FUEL' after it come out of his box. and changing the number of protons is a very difficuilt task, because if it wasnt we could easily create millions of tons of gold. As far as i understand the only way to create an atom with a different number of protons is with very large particle's through radioactive decomposition.

[SlashWylde]

Well OK, here's the thing. His gadget which he pours the water into, then connects two wires to is a diversion. From what I gathered it is a passive device, i.e. there is no external power connected to it. What they were getting at, is that inside it there are two dissimillar metals immersed in the water which form a circuit through an external conductor. In therory this would form a WEAK battery and is the principal employed in the lead acid batteries found in cars, bikes and many other applications. The point is however water is not very ionic and hence not much current will flow. Also not much oxygen and hydrogen will be liberated from the water. If this is what he wanted, then it would be better to connect the electrodes immersed in the water to an external source of electricity.

[SlashWylde]

Having said that, lets just suppose he manages to dissolve some hydrogen and oxygen in his 'water based fuel'. So what? There's not going to be enough chemical potential energy in the mix t run a stock internal combustion engine with carb mods.

My guess is he the whole show was just smoke and mirrors as a diversionary tactic, and he is adding something to the water, which may or may not make it combustible under certain circumstances.

[N4CR]

I'm sure those wires sparked or something or am I just hallucinating?

[k14]

I didn't really understand it back at school, but periodic tables are made up of like neutrons and shit in the nucleus and then how many electrons, what im thinking is it changes that stuff to make a different material/liquid or something through that process, basically making the water more volatile.
You can't do that very easily, if at all from just putting it in a little contraption and letting it bubble away. I know how all that stuff works mate, I've just finished a physics degree at uni. I can't see how it works and being a man of science I won't believe it until it is explained in a logical and scientific way (as I'm sure will many others).

I'm sure we will hear more about it, wonder how long till the patent is approved.

[SlashWylde]

From the language he used and when confronted by the University proffessor about his emmission test, he is a backyard amateur who knows a little bit about a little bit and thinks he has hit upon something big. So he applies for a patent and being a bit paranoid about threats to his life, hires himself some protection then secures some added insurance and short-lived fame by appearing on TV.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love for this to be for real and for some back-yard Kiwi bloke to revolutionise the worlds energy needs. But I have to veiw his claims with a great degree of scepticisim based on what we all saw.

Only time will tell...

[Mental Trousers]

Water doesn't need to compress. The bike uses a carburettor, which is used to mix air and a liquid.

Don't know if the water and oil do emulsify. Without knowing exactly what happens to the water, it's impossible to discount his claim that the hydrocarbons are actually from the lubricating oil.

Believe it or not, there are fuels you can do exactly what he did with the paper cup. On a good day, Diesel will do exactly that.

Why not a motorbike?? It shows off everything making it harder for anyone to claim there's hidden bits - but not impossible of course. A bike also has a relatively small engine. You can wheel the bike into the lounge and work on it even. And a slap together car just doesn't look anywhere near as good as a naked bike.

Ice forms only if it's actually water. If it's been modified by whatever process he puts it through then who knows what it is and what it'll do when it's cooled. Electrolysis does seperate the hydrogen and oxygen that makes up water. But what one of those experts was saying is that he's never seen anyone use water as a storage medium for the hydrogen that's been seperated out. If that is what is happening, then that's pretty farken trick. Also, note that she only drank the water BEFORE it went into the whatsit. She didn't after it came out and he never suggested she do so, which tends to imply that it's not pure water anymore. And as speights_bud points out, the guy claims it's a "water based fuel".

15c a litre?? Pass. Won't know how that works out until he reveals the entire process to the world and people who know what they're talking about get to run the numbers.

I thought the wires sparked too tristank, although many years spent consuming Absolut can cause hallucinations.

Personally, I'm sure there is a way to use water as a fuel. If this guy hasn't figured it out, I'm sure someone will eventually.

[speights_bud]

I don't know whether he didnt know alot or was being really paranoid about telling anyone anything about it, sounds like he didnt really know much by the way he described 'i was talking to people less then 45 mins ago... blah blah blah' and how his theory of ' the people with uni degrees dont achieve anything because they think they know the boundaries. Good on him if it works and everything, but its not a 'Water powered engine' it does contain more than that in fuel. Another point, how much of the stuff are we going to cart around to run the thing? if water has less chemical energy in it than the hydrocarbons should that not mean it would need more fuel to burn?

[N4CR]

I'm sure we will hear more about it, wonder how long till the patent is approved.

Should sort men from the boys. A Patent has to WORK and be proven to be given out. When/IF it is given out we should know all the details on how to do it.

Nice to see you are doing physics... I pulled out end of first semester :crybaby:

[Monsterbishi]

The emissions results:
CO: 7.39%
CO2: 2.5%
HC: 1234ppm
O2: Nil/Not Connected

That's fairly average results for a petrol powered bike of that age.

tristank - yeah, you were hallucinating, definately no spark.

[raster]

I guess we'll have to wait and see HA!

[zooter]

Hmmm, internal combustion engine? What's burning here? Now I know you can do the paper cup test with alcohol and it wil fail to reach flashpoint, but why boast about it? Better to show it flaming away...but of course it can't cause it's only water and the guy is a conman. Where did the carbon come from, probably a secret stash of oldfashioned hydrocarbon or alchohol, or was the exhaust anylysing guy in the pocket of big oil???

[N4CR]

" or was the exhaust anylysing guy in the pocket of big oil???"

Thats what I'm scared about... when things like this come around e.g. back yard hydrogen tech etc you don't hear much more about weather they worked or not.

No better way to disreputate someone with paid science - happens alot.

Another thing... that tester thing looked pretty dirty, surely they would clean them before sticking them up a pipe (it was sooty black..)

[oldrider]

I like these stories. There have been many over my lifetime. They arouse hope and excitement.
See how many posts WINJA has made on this, he's excited. We all are.
We don't have to believe it but we can hope.
I loved his little crack at the Establishment, had he gone through orthodox channels he could not have achieved anything, they would have prevented it.
I was very pleased he used a motorcycle, doesn't matter which one.
He reminded me of Spankme's photo, sharp black pressed trou and braces. Imaculate groomed hairstyle. Any relation Spankme?
Hope he is not a con, its fun. Cheers John. :sunny: :calm:

[myvice]

Well you can use water with your fuel under the right conditions, e.g.; under load at high revs with a turbo/super charger you use water injection to control detonation.
But he wasn’t doing that, you can also split water with a laser at a certain frequency, but I don’t think it would be practical.
Using a DC charge to split it would take too long to generate enough hydrogen/oxygen for an instant fuel.
If you could atomise the droplets small enough and with enough compression you might be able to get it to run like a diesel as water will burn if you get it hot enough.
Like about 1200+ deg C.
So probably not on a bike!
Missed the program, would like to find out more tho...
It would make a very powerful fuel.

[Racey Rider]

I didn't see him doing any wheeles on it! Seemed to have No real power at all.

But you guys go put water in your bikes if you want.

Will reduce demand for petrol, and lower the price for petrol in My bike! :cool:

[Monsterbishi]

Another scam he could be pulling is a insurance one, build up some public interest that can be used in lieu of actual monetary value, then have a accident where the technology is destroyed or stolen to claim a chunky payout.

[geoffm]

LIQUAD PETROL DOES NOT COMPRESS EITHER
Correct - but it is not liquid petrol you are feeding into the engine - it is mist with lots of air. More to the point - it burns, changing to a gas + heat, increasing in volume and making things happen. Sure you can do that with water - if you have a boiler and steam injectors...

I remain to be convinced. Been a while since I did thermodynamics, but it looks a bit dodgy to me. When I saw the bit in the TV listings, I thought it might have been hydrogen power. nothing new there, but inefficient - you get less energy out than you put in, and it has other problems of safety and energy density.

I find it difficult to believe his magic box can transmogrify water into anything useful, unless it is altered with a fermentable sugar, and carefully boiled... If you use electrolysis on water, you get hydrogen and oxygen - in a perfectly stoichometric explosive mix without careful separation. Neither are particuarly soluble in water, and even if they were, it would escape again with movement or temperature (think soda water). The water would be an inert carrier, reducing the efficiency of this magic, tasteless, coulourless brew.

The only thing missing was the magnets on the fuel line...
Geoff

[2wheels in Red Beach]

This guy is taking the piss out of TV3.:whistle: ..............He seems to have a smirk on his face when he is talking to the interviewer :devil2: He just wants his 15 mins of fame.

[TwoSeven]

FYI: Bike built to run on water.

The french produce a car that runs on water. So I suspect someone finally thought about applying it to a bike.

[geoffm]

Don't forget, AFAIK, you don't need to prove the scientific validity to get a patent. He presumebly has applied for a provisional patent at present.

MTrousers - regarding diesel - you won't get a 350 goose to run on diesel for very long. Something about the 20:1 compression for a comrepssion ignition engine. Even kerosine would be an ask, due to the compression ratio, and poor octane rating (anti knock) of the fuel. Some old tractors used to run on the stuff - but they had a 6-1 compression ratio. They also required to be running on petrol before switching to kero, as the wouldn't start on it otherwise.
I would like to be wrong, but my bullshit detector was pegged on the red.
Geoff

[flash]

First, there was no spark, i was looking for one esspecially

second, seeing the ads got be a little giddy but so does a couple of beers. The most important thing you guys should be looking at is THE GUY, he just had the look of a con, call me stereotyping...?








i dont care he just does

my 2c

[WINJA]

Correct - but it is not liquid petrol you are feeding into the engine - it is mist with lots of air. More to the point - it burns, changing to a gas + heat, increasing in volume and making things happen. Sure you can do that with water - if you have a boiler and steam injectors...

I remain to be convinced. Been a while since I did thermodynamics, but it looks a bit dodgy to me. When I saw the bit in the TV listings, I thought it might have been hydrogen power. nothing new there, but inefficient - you get less energy out than you put in, and it has other problems of safety and energy density.

I find it difficult to believe his magic box can transmogrify water into anything useful, unless it is altered with a fermentable sugar, and carefully boiled... If you use electrolysis on water, you get hydrogen and oxygen - in a perfectly stoichometric explosive mix without careful separation. Neither are particuarly soluble in water, and even if they were, it would escape again with movement or temperature (think soda water). The water would be an inert carrier, reducing the efficiency of this magic, tasteless, coulourless brew.

The only thing missing was the magnets on the fuel line...
Geoff
MY POINT IS ITS A LIQUID THAT IS ATOMIZED

[SlashWylde]

I remembered seeing the following story in the news last month:

http://www.platinum.matthey.com/media_room/1128006001.html

this could be a bit more promising...

[Mental Trousers]

MTrousers - regarding diesel - you won't get a 350 goose to run on diesel for very long. ...

Yep. Point was that there are fuels that are widely used that won't combust if you put them in a cup. I just used diesel as an example. However, there are others that I could have used.

[Motu]

Didn't see it,but sounds like the ''Joe Cell'',there was a shit load about them in Nexus mag a few years ago,I got some plans around here somewhere.....

About the mechanic - a top tech from any car franchise would be a 100x better tech than the best bike tech you could find...they get put through factory training programs the bike guys,and me,can only dream about.

[Krayy]

Anyone remember the classic Billy T James sketch where he had a VW that ran on water? Problem is you had to drive next to a river to keep it going, and it created a rooster-tail out the back :killingme :killingme

[SlashWylde]

Assuming this thing on TV tonight is a complete con it really pisses me off, because it detracts from and debases the worthy contributions made by ingenious Kiwis to developing alternative fuels and sustainable energy. I know a few people who work in this feild, some green-minded people who have developed a simple but efficient micro-hydro or wind generation system and others who have defied accepted wisdom and developed highly efficient power-dense inverter systems.

When young dumb glamour seekers, like this guy appears to be, come along and get a spot on the TV it casts a shadow of doubt over the whole concept of sustainable energy, and the public at large develop a heightened sense of scepticisim to such concepts - "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" springs to mind.

Oh well....

[notme]

:psst: Free energy, Slash! Energy from the vacuum! Really! :lol:

This is a hoax, plain and simple. What sucks is how people like this guy are so opportunistic - petrol is expensive right now, he's out to make a quick buck. Sad. :argh:

[Jantar]

I find it difficult to believe his magic box can transmogrify water into anything useful, unless it is altered with a fermentable sugar, and carefully boiled...

Most water already contains a very dangerous but also usefull chemical. See this earlier thread. http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=10438&highlight=dhmo

[Motu]

The good old Joe Cell (http://educate-yourself.org/fe/fejoewatercell.shtml) ,it's been around for years....you can make your own easy....

[nicmotors]

Sure maybe there was water put into the tank, however you can still burn water if it is mixed with enough methelated spirits...
It's a good trick to know if some clown chucks some water in ya tank at a party or a pesky kid does... also 'The Rock' radio station managed to drive a car a few hundred kilimeters on a water meths mix...
Hoax or truth, it's all good food for thought... :niceone:

[TwoSeven]

Both honda and renult have demonstrated water powered cars. Back in the 40s someone built an electrolytic carb which did almost the same thing.

Here is a link to the UK press releases for the british version.

http://www.invest.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/entrepreneur/content/currentnewsWaterPoweredCar.cfm

[avgas]

Actually come to think about it - he broke a perfectly good bike.
That thing really didnt want to start.
All filled with hopes, dreams and kittens

[Brian d marge]

Imagine that,,a bike that ran on water ,,,,I could finally find a use for all that canterbury draught ,,,:calm:

Mind you me enfield runs on a smell of an oily rag,,,,

Stephen

[Lou Girardin]

it can't run on water, water will not compress so when the piston comes up, something will break...

He said the only thing he changed was something in the carby...

Petrol does the same. You're just not supposed to fill the cylinder/s to the brim. A little squirt will do.

[James Deuce]

It's a repeat of the hoax that went about in the mid-'70s during the last big oil crisis where a Canterbury farmer claimed to have modified his EH Holden to run on water, and was shown filling up from a drain on his property.

[Bartman10]

I didn't see the programme, I was cleaning out the carbs on the race bike - give me hi octane mmmm.... And I don't have a TV.

But it is a complete and utter con.

100 years of chemical thermodynamics has shown that all chemical reactions require energy balance. If he wants to dispute this he needs to show, conclusively and beyond reasonable doubt, in a controlled experiment under close supervision that he has succeeded. In addition a theoretical frame-work needs to be established that does not contradict past and present experimental observation.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. He has not provided it.

He is a con absolutely and totally, and I will maintain that position until conclusive evidence presented in an appropriate forum (i.e. not a crap 15 minute TV show) points to the contrary.

To say that science is in the pocket of big oil is total carp. Anyone who says that has no understanding or experience of the science funding system in New Zealand.

[Lou Girardin]

I suspect he's using a water/methanol mix, which will be odourless and look like water. That would explain the difficulty starting it. The carb mods would big main jets for methanol use.
When it's independently tested by the ESR or similar, I'll buy shares.

[:rofl:]

I just had a convo with a workmate about this,
yknow how that car dude came along and said aww yeah theres no alternate source's of fuel going in there. well, my workmate suggested the dodgy rider dude was carrying petrol on him (as well as whats in the pipes perhaps) and he cleverly put petrol into the engine

(or that dodgy canister on the handlebars had a 'secret compartment' which seems the most obvious.)

[F5 Dave]

I didn’t bother to read several pages of drivel but it is a complete hoax. A year to get a patent. -- More like gives you time to get hard of thinking investors knocking at your door.

Energy has to come from somewhere, so are you converting the water into hydrogen? Not with a carby tweek buddy. :psst:

My pick is a small LPG cylinder inside the engine piped to the manifold, enough to get the bike to almost start & run, the water will be thick enough that not much will get through to upset the bike running.

[Pixie]

Nah what I meant was in terms of electrolysing then getting hydrogen out, cooling the mix back down and then warming up, somehow makes the water components (H and O) more prone to seperating in the combustion chamber. Might do some shit like when you get electrons moving around shells and stuff... 6th form physics here >_<

I really don't know lol... just a stab in the dark.
The only reason electrolysing water into H2 & O allows the result to be used as a fuel is because the electrical energy is absorbed inthe process of breaking the molecular bonds.
ie the H2 & O mixture is at a higher potential energy level than the H2O it was seperated from.
This can not happen in the same machine that is using it as fuel as that would be a perpetual motion machine and it would make Mr Newton unhappy.
The con man is not the first NZer to try to sell this bullshit

[Pixie]

I'm not surprised by the number of responses showing a degree of belief in this crap.Not considering the abysmal level of science education in our schools and the hippy wannabe "science is evil" atitude of much of NZ's population.

That bike would go round the carpark on the petrol that could remain in the floatbowl.What if the little tank had a false petrol chamber in it ?

If you still believe it's true,I have some property for sale at a bargain price:
Auckland CBD: section with a phallic symbol and casino on site

[Silage]

Well I reakon he was quite good. When faced by a TV3 interviewer who had not prepared well and had no understanding of internal combustion or science, he held it together quite well. But a complete hoax.

I'm with Geoffm, F5Dave, Pixie and others (sceptics). Water has a relatively low state of energy. You have to feed energy into it to eg split it into its components of hydrogen and oxygen. When these are burned (such as in an internal combustion engine) the exact same amout of energy is released as was put in to split them apart (one of the laws of thermodynamicals).

I was waiting for him to say that the only emissions were - wait for it - water. This would be tremendous. You pour all this water into this little box, connect the wires, wait for x minutes and out comes (transmogrified) water. Pour this into your bike and this water burns into - wait for it - water. But no, it turned out that the emissions were something closely resembling a petrol engine. It really is magic.

BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS BS

[Gixxer 4 ever]

I
My pick is a small LPG cylinder inside the engine piped to the manifold, enough to get the bike to almost start & run, the water will be thick enough that not much will get through to upset the bike running.

Yep I have stayed out of this till now cos I didn't want to make a fool of myself. I "think" this has to be a fake. The LPG thing sounds like the go to me. A canister in the crank with an electric servo or something and a bit of milling in the block to get it to the inlet chamber. You can missed the water in with it and it will run. It would be hard to start the LPG and that is what happened. The omissions pointed to fake to me. :calm:
So we will see in 12 months.

[Marmoot]

I Hope it does not come through.
Imagine that, if it does, everyone will use water for their vehicles.

And, after a few years, we'll be short of water like we are short of petrol now!
:mellow:

[Bartman10]

Both honda and renult have demonstrated water powered cars. Back in the 40s someone built an electrolytic carb which did almost the same thing.

Here is a link to the UK press releases for the british version.

http://www.invest.uktradeinvest.gov.uk/entrepreneur/content/currentnewsWaterPoweredCar.cfm

Quite a different concept 2-7. This car still requires petrol. It's just redirecting some of it's waste energy.

[Monsterbishi]

http://www.biosmeanslife.com/index.htm
http://www.biosmeanslife.com/home.html

For his two websites, both must have been made by his 'security team' or their pre-school children perhaps.

[Motu]

Reminds me of when Gardiner had a diesel engine at a show suspended from the roof by a chain,and it ran for the 3 days of the show non stop with no visable means of fuel supply,they asked the public to submit reasons for how it was done.All the usual hollow chains,hidden fuel tanks in the sump etc,but Gardiner denide all claims...no one got it in the end.

It was running on it's own sump oil.

[TLDV8]

I havn't read the whole thread and only saw part of the 60 minutes..it said water based didn't it and then the methonol was added at 1/3 ratio,which the sniffer detected.

[Slingshot]

From the website:
However, to produce hydrogen as a fuel has been marred with contradiction as in order to create clean fuel you create harmful bi products into the atmosphere, the worst being CO2.

Everyone stop breathing, we can't be seen to be adding to the worst of all harmful bi products, CO2.

This guy is full to the brim with crap.


Chances are the tank already had petrol in it, he poured a little water into the tank which would have floated on top of the petrol, then he started the bike and rode away.

[Mental Trousers]

The thing that amazes me is that virtually nothing was revealed in that show, yet people are willing to either believe it or, just as bad, totally disbelieve it. But there's a complete lack of evidence either way.

Scientific knowledge is incomplete. Every single day there are new scientific discoveries made that are continually adding to our knowledge of the Universe. Nobody can say with any certainty that it's a fabrication or not until the process (or lack of one) is opened up to the public and dissected. Maybe this guy has actually stumbled on something. But then again, maybe he is taking everyone for a ride.

I *hope* there is a way to use water as fuel, but whether this guy has cracked it or not will have to wait until the process is revealed (or not).

[marty]

From the website:

Everyone stop breathing, we can't be seen to be adding to the worst of all harmful bi products, CO2.

This guy is full to the brim with crap.


Chances are the tank already had petrol in it, he poured a little water into the tank which would have floated on top of the petrol, then he started the bike and rode away.

actually, water sinks in petrol (or any hydrocarbon fuel) as the SG of all hydrocarbon fuels is less than (ie lighter than) water.

[Lou Girardin]

From the website:

Everyone stop breathing, we can't be seen to be adding to the worst of all harmful bi products, CO2.
.

I'd say there's a few worse ones,
carbon monoxide, sulphuric acid, diesel particulates, to name a few.

[Marmoot]

I remember James Watt made an engine that ran on water as well. It was a while ago though....I think in late 1800s.
He got quite a bit of horsepower from that water-fuelled engine. :whistle:

[hazard02]

i think a lot of us have missed the point. if this guy has indeed built an engine that runs on modified water, it still emits levels of CO2 etc just the same as a regular fuel (even if it is just mixing with the lubricant).
he might have solved the issue of cheap fuel, but we'd still be stuck with the pressing issue of global warming. cheap fuel would just encourage people to use more of it = more greenhouse gasses = less low lying pacific nations.

[James Deuce]

.....Watt....

Watt's on second.

Who's on first

Exactly

[Bartman10]

i think a lot of us have missed the point. if this guy has indeed built an engine that runs on modified water, it still emits levels of CO2 etc just the same as a regular fuel (even if it is just mixing with the lubricant).
he might have solved the issue of cheap fuel, but we'd still be stuck with the pressing issue of global warming. cheap fuel would just encourage people to use more of it = more greenhouse gasses = less low lying pacific nations.

He hasn't solved any problem. He's a con. The only thing he's doing is giving people false hope that they'll get cheap fuel in the future.

When it's been confirmed that he's a con all he'll do is detract funding and research effort from genuine renewable or energy efficiency projects, because of bad media publicity, which reflects badly on science and the government. This pisses me off.

The problem is we trust the media too much, especially TV. TV3 are suckers and they've been taken for a ride, along with the some of the public.

The real solution to energy a lot of energy problems is a series of micro-networks of localised power generation capability, not some crack pot con who's only after publicity.

[notme]

.............The real solution to energy a lot of energy problems is a series of micro-networks of localised power generation capability, not some crack pot con who's only after publicity.


I know a few people who work in this feild, some green-minded people who have developed a simple but efficient micro-hydro or wind generation system and others who have defied accepted wisdom and developed highly efficient power-dense inverter systems.

When young dumb glamour seekers, like this guy appears to be, come along and get a spot on the TV it casts a shadow of doubt over the whole concept of sustainable energy, and the public at large develop a heightened sense of scepticisim to such concepts - "The Boy Who Cried Wolf" springs to mind.

<!-- / message -->

Ok, I'm not (intentionally) glamour seeking myself here, but think about this:

I AM one of the people SlashWylde mentions above - my company has developed power electronics systems that are essential to utilise the localised energy generation capacity that Bartman10 talks about, with the source being the "clean" micro-hydro, wind, solar etc that SlashWylde talks about.

Now here's the bit to think about. We have gone thru almost 10 years of trying to get funding to develop this technology further, and been stymied at every attempt. Oh sure we get little bits here and there from TBG schemes and stuff....but given as little as $500k, we could develop this technology to a point where NZ is a world leader in sustainable energy technology.

Wanna know what we have been doing recently instead?

The biggest market for the technology so far has been China. They have bought approx $1.5million worth of our product, thru government sponsored initiatives, and are bringing in a frickin LAW (just found that out this morning!) that says every new structure that meets certain criteria built in the Jiang-Su province MUST have our little boxes installed.

NZ wants to be clean and green, and yet there is bugger all money for people like us who can help with that, and i mean HELP in an immediate, real way - not with snake oil and hype.

So when I see people like this guy being given publicity, money (was probly paid to be on TV with his "invention") etc it just PISSES ME OFF.:angry2:

End of rant....sorry!

[Marmoot]

Watt's on second.

Who's on first

Exactly

What? Watt?

[Marmoot]

come to think of it, running vehicle on water is actually really possible.

All you need to do is stir the water enough.
once it is stirred enough, the kinetic energy inside the water can be used to generate electricity, which can be used to generate motion. And, to preserve the motion, the water just need to be stirred more with the....uh.....electricity

[hazard02]

cant believe i didnt figure it out straight away.
those supposed modifications to the carb were just to throw us off. he actually replaced it with a flux capacitor. this esentially turns the fuel tank into a localised time machine that transports the water through time until it decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen. that little box just irradiates the water til it builds up enough jiggawatts of charge to power the device.
elementary...

[pyrocam]

cant believe i didnt figure it out straight away.
those supposed modifications to the carb were just to throw us off. he actually replaced it with a flux capacitor. this esentially turns the fuel tank into a localised time machine that transports the water through time until it decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen. that little box just irradiates the water til it builds up enough jiggawatts of charge to power the device.
elementary...

fucking hell.

quick. try and get the patent before that fuck does.

or go back in time with one and patent it 5 years ago

[WINJA]

cant believe i didnt figure it out straight away.
those supposed modifications to the carb were just to throw us off. he actually replaced it with a flux capacitor. this esentially turns the fuel tank into a localised time machine that transports the water through time until it decomposes into hydrogen and oxygen. that little box just irradiates the water til it builds up enough jiggawatts of charge to power the device.
elementary...
PITY YOUR BIKE DONT RUN ON BULLSHIT CAUSE YOU COULD SAVE A LOT OF SQUIDS

[hazard02]

PITY YOUR BIKE DONT RUN ON BULLSHIT CAUSE YOU COULD SAVE A LOT OF SQUIDS

i guess no-one here has seen the Back to the Future movies...

[N4CR]

i guess no-one here has seen the Back to the Future movies...

Don't worry. He is just an old shit stirrer.
who loves getting it from cops

[James Deuce]

What? Watt?

I already told you: Who's on first, Watt's on second

[thealmightytaco]

The man is a crock. If he's got the same emissions as a normal petrol engine he's burning some form of hydrocarbon, probably an alcohol or something, cause water has no carbon to burn to make CO2 in your emissions, gotta be something else int here. And if he was burning oil he'd have alot more C and CO's than CO2's in there, cause that stuff doesn't burn so good, hence the blue plumes.

Crock I tell you, crock.

[Pixie]

The thing that amazes me is that virtually nothing was revealed in that show, yet people are willing to either believe it or, just as bad, totally disbelieve it. But there's a complete lack of evidence either way.

Scientific knowledge is incomplete. Every single day there are new scientific discoveries made that are continually adding to our knowledge of the Universe. Nobody can say with any certainty that it's a fabrication or not until the process (or lack of one) is opened up to the public and dissected. Maybe this guy has actually stumbled on something. But then again, maybe he is taking everyone for a ride.

I *hope* there is a way to use water as fuel, but whether this guy has cracked it or not will have to wait until the process is revealed (or not).
Come on!
I can assure you there will not be any "discovery" in the future that will allow the burning of water.
Not unless the whole quantum structure of the universe changes.

[riffer]

I already told you: Who's on first, Watt's on second

It would appear that the sardonic wit of the Marx brothers is far ffrom appreciated or even understood by some of our esteemed fellow bikers....
:whistle:

[James Deuce]

Abbott & Costello ;)

[Ghost Lemur]

It would appear that the sardonic wit of the Marx brothers is far ffrom appreciated or even understood by some of our esteemed fellow bikers....
:whistle:


I thought it was Abbot and Costello?

[Zapf]

Nah what I meant was in terms of electrolysing then getting hydrogen out, cooling the mix back down and then warming up, somehow makes the water components (H and O) more prone to seperating in the combustion chamber. Might do some shit like when you get electrons moving around shells and stuff... 6th form physics here >_<

I really don't know lol... just a stab in the dark.

in electrolysing. you add electrons in the form of electricity to the H2O, as the bond between H and O is an electron bond. Giving them extra electrons seprate them. How does warming and cooling affects the electron bond? cooling will take enengy away from the H2O and may lower amount of power needed but I don't see how you can make power from all these process again.

[Zapf]

Well you can use water with your fuel under the right conditions, e.g.; under load at high revs with a turbo/super charger you use water injection to control detonation.
But he wasn’t doing that, you can also split water with a laser at a certain frequency, but I don’t think it would be practical.
Using a DC charge to split it would take too long to generate enough hydrogen/oxygen for an instant fuel.
If you could atomise the droplets small enough and with enough compression you might be able to get it to run like a diesel as water will burn if you get it hot enough.
Like about 1200+ deg C.
So probably not on a bike!
Missed the program, would like to find out more tho...
It would make a very powerful fuel.

water will burn? what does it combine with and what is the result product? just interested....

[F5 Dave]

I remember James Watt made an engine that ran on water as well. It was a while ago though....I think in late 1800s.
He got quite a bit of horsepower from that water-fuelled engine. :whistle:

Talking of water perhaps there is something in that Tui that has affected your ability to think. :drinkup:

Water fuelled steam engine pah! So they just carried that coal around to keep the stokers busy during the trip? :rofl:

[avgas]

Ok, I'm not (intentionally) glamour seeking myself here, but think about this:

I AM one of the people SlashWylde mentions above - my company has developed power electronics systems that are essential to utilise the localised energy generation capacity that Bartman10 talks about, with the source being the "clean" micro-hydro, wind, solar etc that SlashWylde talks about.

Now here's the bit to think about. We have gone thru almost 10 years of trying to get funding to develop this technology further, and been stymied at every attempt. Oh sure we get little bits here and there from TBG schemes and stuff....but given as little as $500k, we could develop this technology to a point where NZ is a world leader in sustainable energy technology.

Wanna know what we have been doing recently instead?

The biggest market for the technology so far has been China. They have bought approx $1.5million worth of our product, thru government sponsored initiatives, and are bringing in a frickin LAW (just found that out this morning!) that says every new structure that meets certain criteria built in the Jiang-Su province MUST have our little boxes installed.

NZ wants to be clean and green, and yet there is bugger all money for people like us who can help with that, and i mean HELP in an immediate, real way - not with snake oil and hype.

So when I see people like this guy being given publicity, money (was probly paid to be on TV with his "invention") etc it just PISSES ME OFF.:angry2:

End of rant....sorry!

Know how you feel man. NZ isnt a green country - we just think we are, government policy wise (and funding), we are worse then Europe or Japan.
Been to see a few of these 'Green Invention' presentations. The strange thing is, if they had some kind of great invention. They wouldnt try and sell shares etc before the patent went through. As the share price would easily be below 50% of the value after the patent went through. The inventor is better off getting think-tank funds, either from a think-tank provider, or bank loan etc.
Its the easiest way to tell a scam.
That and the fact that you use dodgey crocodile clips on your 'magic box'.

[CBRAero]

Yes this thread is old, but incase someone hasn't seen the 60 minutes article and would like to it can be found at

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=0JL6PRJ9

[zeRax]

that just links to some sluts, which is ok, but i kinda wanna see the 60 mins thing aswell....

[zeRax]

loaded it again and it comes up with the thing now :P will get it later, thanks dude

[Mr. Peanut]

Alkali metals and water make hydrogen - theres so many ways you could fake it.

Check this out - http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2134266654801392897&q=metals+and+water

[CBRAero]

Yeah, I don't know what thats all about. Load it again, as you say, or click the continue button and it works.


As far as what Steve Ryan claims to have done; To have modified the molecular structure of water to allow it to drive an engine in the manner he describes contradicts every current mainstream scientific idea or law, be it physics, chemistry etc...

However, will some ideas presented today which appear fantastic now nevertheless be science fact in the future? Absolutely. Thats the nature of science. People are far to sure of themselves and what they know, what is possible and what is not. Steve Ryan did make one very good point. He hasn't been educated in what is possible and what is not, thereby allowing him to experiment with things 'educated' people would scoff at and never even try as they already 'know' its impossible. While it may be possible to 'train' water to behave as he says, its still more likely to be a big confidence scam. Unfortunately.

[Mr. Peanut]

Consider this, whether or not it is possible, it got him some attention didn't it?

It's 100% Bullshit, I promise. :angry: