New Position

[rastuscat]

Hi Y'all

I'm starting a new job in January, working with ACC on the Ride Forever team.

Relocating to Wellington, which is occupying lots of our time. Packing up the house etc.

I'm looking forward to Mrs Cat and I heading out on the lower North Island weekend rides. Mrs Cat is English, and has lived most of her time in NZ in the South Island. I'm looking forward to showing her the North Island.

Always open to (positive) suggestions as to how we can improve things for motorcyclists. I'll read everything, and steal any good ideas.

Tally ho.

[Paul in NZ]

Hi Y'all

I'm starting a new job in January, working with ACC on the Ride Forever team.

Relocating to Wellington, which is occupying lots of our time. Packing up the house etc.

I'm looking forward to Mrs Cat and I heading out on the lower North Island weekend rides. Mrs Cat is English, and has lived most of her time in NZ in the South Island. I'm looking forward to showing her the North Island.

Always open to (positive) suggestions as to how we can improve things for motorcyclists. I'll read everything, and steal any good ideas.

Tally ho.

Good job - I work in town and happy to meet up for a coffee etc or you and Mrs can pop out one weekend for a BBQ etc.

One area that's often neglected is the classic clubs / scene. Those old big wheel bikes act a little differently on the road and something relevant to these guys might help? Mind you they are usually pretty cautious.

[onearmedbandit]

Good luck with the venture.

I belong to a couple of NZ based motorcycle groups on FB, generic groups with riders from all backgrounds. The biggest issue I see is education, or lack there of combined with a bad attitude. So often I see posts from members arguing until their fingers are bleeding from typing that the majority of bike accidents are the result of other road users. When presented with the stats showing this isn't true typically they get very defensive and more steadfast in their stance. Until riders start taking personal responsibility for their own safety I doubt we'll see much change. Yes there are certainly many situations where other road users are at fault or have some degree of blame, but blame doesn't fix broken bones, skin rash, permanent injury or death.

The next would be cellphone use in cars. I hate seeing the amount of drivers I do using their phones in traffic. This presents a huge risk for all road users but it seems like so many don't care or don't realise how quickly situations can change. I personally never touch my phone in the car when driving, for one I don't want to be a hypocrite but most importantly I don't want to live for the rest of my life knowing I caused hurt and suffering because of a text or phone call. No phone call is worth that.

Attitude amongst many road users is probably a strong underlying issue here. She'll be right. It'll never happen to me. The belief that we know it all. The belief that we are without fault. All these things combine to cause attitudes that result in 'preventidents'.

[rastuscat]

Good luck with the venture.

I belong to a couple of NZ based motorcycle groups on FB, generic groups with riders from all backgrounds. The biggest issue I see is education, or lack there of combined with a bad attitude. So often I see posts from members arguing until their fingers are bleeding from typing that the majority of bike accidents are the result of other road users. When presented with the stats showing this isn't true typically they get very defensive and more steadfast in their stance. Until riders start taking personal responsibility for their own safety I doubt we'll see much change. Yes there are certainly many situations where other road users are at fault or have some degree of blame, but blame doesn't fix broken bones, skin rash, permanent injury or death.

The next would be cellphone use in cars. I hate seeing the amount of drivers I do using their phones in traffic. This presents a huge risk for all road users but it seems like so many don't care or don't realise how quickly situations can change. I personally never touch my phone in the car when driving, for one I don't want to be a hypocrite but most importantly I don't want to live for the rest of my life knowing I caused hurt and suffering because of a text or phone call. No phone call is worth that.

Attitude amongst many road users is probably a strong underlying issue here. She'll be right. It'll never happen to me. The belief that we know it all. The belief that we are without fault. All these things combine to cause attitudes that result in 'preventidents'.

That's what's called the education conundrum. Those who need it most are the least inclined to get it.

Incentivising attendance at training is the key. Making it worth someone taking part.

Presently the "hook" is the reduction in time on 6L and 6R for new riders. And Cashback for long time riders.

If Cashback is a success as a pilot likely it will be widened.

But hey, I dont start work there until 13 Jan. I have a lot to learn, but hope to bring my experience to the role to reduce harm done in motorcycle crashes.

[onearmedbandit]

That's what's called the education conundrum. Those who need it most are the least inclined to get it.

Incentivising attendance at training is the key. Making it worth someone taking part.

I guess not many people want to be shown the error of their ways. And probably feel they don't have any. Maybe you'd have better luck with a more informal setting, at least initially. Get riding trainers out on the popular roads in the weekends and interacting socially but with an educative approach. Observing them and offering advice. Then get onboard with employers and incentivise them to allow their employee to have a paid day off work to attend a rider training experience. It's a day off work, it doesn't eat into their time or wages and it's a day at the track, and the employer has an employee who is less likely to require time off work due to injury.

[rastuscat]

Then get onboard with employers and incentivise them to allow their employee to have a paid day off work to attend a rider training experience. It's a day off work, it doesn't eat into their time or wages and it's a day at the track, and the employer has an employee who is less likely to require time off work due to injury.

Now that's a great idea. I'll steal that one.

[Viking01]

Hi Y'all

I'm starting a new job in January, working with ACC on the Ride Forever team.

Relocating to Wellington, which is occupying lots of our time. Packing up the house etc.

I'm looking forward to Mrs Cat and I heading out on the lower North Island weekend rides. Mrs Cat is English, and has lived most of her time in NZ in the South Island. I'm looking forward to showing her the North Island.

Always open to (positive) suggestions as to how we can improve things for motorcyclists. I'll read everything, and steal any good ideas.

Tally ho.

Congratulations with the new role. Feel sure that you will do well.

Welcome to Wellington (though house prices might not be so welcoming).

Cheers,
Viking

[caseye]

On Ya Rastus! Finally got to the big island aye! Lots of bloody good folks wot ride down thar! Head norf to Dorkland and theres always going to room at the inn here.

[rastuscat]

On Ya Rastus! Finally got to the big island aye! Lots of bloody good folks wot ride down thar! Head norf to Dorkland and theres always going to room at the inn here.

I've lived 21 years in Auckland. People get less than that for murder.

[Kickaha]

Relocating to Wellington, which is occupying lots of our time. Packing up the house etc.
.

Don't pack my book up, drop it back before you go

[Gremlin]

Hope it's everything you're after :niceone:

[MD]

Welcome to Windy Wellington. Are you skilled at riding in 140kph gusts.
Actually that's not fair on Wellytown. I got back 1am Tuesday morning after 4 days solid riding down to Colac Bay (Riverton) and back. The wind through to Manapouri and then from Alex to Palmerston was ...holy shit, put Wellington winds to shame.

OAB said it well about education and phones. I believe the biggest danger on today's roads is phones and crossing centrelines/cutting corners.

Too many riders, many experienced who should know better by now, cut corners everywhere. As I always say, you might get away with that if a 1960 Morri Thou is approaching around the blind bend at 42kph. BUT it's more likely a lad pushing his new hot Audi hard or a rider on a sports bike going xxx+ kph will wipe you out.

I may stretch the 9kph tolerance at times but I never cut corners no matter how much visibility there is.

[rastuscat]

Don't pack my book up, drop it back before you go

PM me the address. I've often thought of dropping it back, but I'd forgotten who I borrowed it from !!

[rastuscat]

Hope it's everything you're after :niceone:

I'm not even sure what I'm after, but hey, I'm only 54, there's no hurry.

[caspernz]

Congrats Pete, had been wondering who would end up filling DK's shoes, now we know.

R4E gaining wider acceptance by those who actually need it, now that's a neat conundrum.

Best of luck in the new role and the move to the capital.

[jellywrestler]

Always open to (positive) suggestions as to how we can improve things for motorcyclists.

Tally ho. pipe cleaners in your jacket zips.

[jellywrestler]

a paid day off work to attend a rider training experience. are these courses a whole day?

[russd7]

Welcome to Windy Wellington. Are you skilled at riding in 140kph gusts.
Actually that's not fair on Wellytown. I got back 1am Tuesday morning after 4 days solid riding down to Colac Bay (Riverton) and back. The wind through to Manapouri and then from Alex to Palmerston was ...holy shit, put Wellington winds to shame.

OAB said it well about education and phones. I believe the biggest danger on today's roads is phones and crossing centrelines/cutting corners.

Too many riders, many experienced who should know better by now, cut corners everywhere. As I always say, you might get away with that if a 1960 Morri Thou is approaching around the blind bend at 42kph. BUT it's more likely a lad pushing his new hot Audi hard or a rider on a sports bike going xxx+ kph will wipe you out.

I may stretch the 9kph tolerance at times but I never cut corners no matter how much visibility there is.
hope ya waved as ya went past, so you have now experienced our gentle gale force breezes we get down these ways :cool:

Canty norwesters can be a tad breezy at times also, kinda a bit disconcerting leaning to the right to go round a left hand bend

[rastuscat]

are these courses a whole day?

Bronze, Silver and Gold courses are a whole day.

Scooter Survival and Urban Commuter courses are half days.

Lots of people want to do training at weekends, which is, ironically, why I gave up motorcycle training full time. Working every weekend became a tad tedious. Mates would be out having fun on bikes, while I was working, and I was off when they were working.

This is an avenue worth exploring. Incentivising employers to give their staff a work day to undergo training in the interest of staff H&S. Worth looking into.

Remember though, please, I am not in the job until mid January. I'm just looking for inspiration at this stage. I don't want to irritate my new boss (sorry DK) buy appearing too keen.

[russd7]

on ya rastus, sometimes like beating ya head against a brick wall this training thing, my answer to the idiots who keep blaming others is pretty standard now,
"if ya so sure its them then isn't it better to be a better rider to avoid those situations"
ya can't fix stupid tho

[rastuscat]

Congrats Pete, had been wondering who would end up filling DK's shoes, now we know.

R4E gaining wider acceptance by those who actually need it, now that's a neat conundrum.

Best of luck in the new role and the move to the capital.

Thanks.

DKs shoes are big to fill. The programme is excellent already, I'm thinking that it can improve with ideas, but it's already excellent.

Which is why I applied for the job.

[Gremlin]

Too many riders, many experienced who should know better by now, cut corners everywhere. As I always say, you might get away with that if a 1960 Morri Thou is approaching around the blind bend at 42kph. BUT it's more likely a lad pushing his new hot Audi hard or a rider on a sports bike going xxx+ kph will wipe you out.
Interesting and timely... I was going along one of my favourite roads on Sunday, tipping into an uphill left hander. Rider 2up coming the other way must have got quite the surprise judging by the way he stood the bike up. That said, with his wheels either on my side of the road or very close to it (exact location wasn't my immediate priority) as you say, riders always expect something slow and lumbering, not a quick moving motorcycle.


Remember though, please, I am not in the job until mid January. I'm just looking for inspiration at this stage. I don't want to irritate my new boss (sorry DK) buy appearing too keen.
Inspiration? You're new to this govt job gig eh? :msn-wink:

<img src=https://i.imgur.com/znrmfbA.jpg>

[jellywrestler]

pipe cleaners in your jacket zips.

so you say you're interested in things that might help but seem to be only picking up on the same things everyone else is it seems?

[Berries]

Hate to say it but I think you are on a hiding to nothing. You can play around the edges but in the end bikes are unstable, invisible to some motorists and riders are relatively unprotected. We will continue to feature in the crash stats because of the first two points and will continue to be overrepresented in DSI crashes because of the last one.

Just bang another 500 bucks on our rego, that should get rid of a few more riders and improve the stats. Sorry, I am a big cynic when it comes to all of this.

Good luck with the job.



Pipe cleaners should be hi-viz btw.

[rastuscat]

Hate to say it but I think you are on a hiding to nothing. You can play around the edges but in the end bikes are unstable, invisible to some motorists and riders are relatively unprotected. We will continue to feature in the crash stats because of the first two points and will continue to be overrepresented in DSI crashes because of the last one.

Just bang another 500 bucks on our rego, that should get rid of a few more riders and improve the stats. Sorry, I am a big cynic when it comes to all of this.

Good luck with the job.

Pipe cleaners should be hi-viz btw.

I've worked in frustrating roles quite a lot. Mostly related to road safety. Theres always thing you can do to influence individuals.

There is no end game, no nirvana where everyone is safe all the time. But giving up trying is a bit defeatist.

Theres a spectrum. At one end there are those who just wont engage with education. At the other end are those who actively seek it out. In the middle are those who will engage if they arev incentivised sufficiently to overcome their reluctance.

Incentives might be intrinsic, or extrinsic. It's the incentives to engage that I see as the key.

[F5 Dave]

Welcome to Windy Wellington. Are you skilled at riding in 140kph gusts.
Actually that's not fair on Wellytown. I got back 1am Tuesday morning after 4 days solid riding down to Colac Bay (Riverton) and back. The wind through to Manapouri and then from Alex to Palmerston was ...holy shit, put Wellington winds to shame.

OAB said it well about education and phones. I believe the biggest danger on today's roads is phones and crossing centrelines/cutting corners.

Too many riders, many experienced who should know better by now, cut corners everywhere. As I always say, you might get away with that if a 1960 Morri Thou is approaching around the blind bend at 42kph. BUT it's more likely a lad pushing his new hot Audi hard or a rider on a sports bike going xxx+ kph will wipe you out.

I may stretch the 9kph tolerance at times but I never cut corners no matter how much visibility there is.
Actually 2 weeks back leaving Lumsden and then entering Hokitika was some of the worst wind I've encountered.

[F5 Dave]

pipe cleaners in your jacket zips.
So we used to use leather strips, but the zip puller eventually breaks one day and small key rings do well as replacement and don't really need extra adornment. But I'm not closed to trying new things. Where would one find a pipe cleaner? We had some Draino somewhere.

[rastuscat]

So we used to use leather strips, but the zip puller eventually breaks one day and small key rings do well as replacement and don't really need extra adornment. But I'm not closed to trying new things. Where would one find a pipe cleaner? We had some Draino somewhere.

Zip ties on most of the broken YKK zip pulls at mine.

[Scuba_Steve]

Welcome to the home of NZ's most most popular bike route*
*by volume of bikes

Just don't crash on it, I see way too many ambos go that way

[F5 Dave]

Zip ties on most of the broken YKK zip pulls at mine.

Slippery thin plastic often with gloves. Less than ideal Neal.

[F5 Dave]

Welcome to the home of NZ's most most popular bike route*
*by volume of bikes

Just don't crash on it, I see way too many ambos go that way

Some of the corners will be 3 point turns on a K1600 wont they?

[rastuscat]

Some of the corners will be 3 point turns on a K1600 wont they?

R1200RT LC these days

[Banditbandit]

Hi Y'all

I'm starting a new job in January, working with ACC on the Ride Forever team.

Relocating to Wellington, which is occupying lots of our time. Packing up the house etc.

I'm looking forward to Mrs Cat and I heading out on the lower North Island weekend rides. Mrs Cat is English, and has lived most of her time in NZ in the South Island. I'm looking forward to showing her the North Island.

Always open to (positive) suggestions as to how we can improve things for motorcyclists. I'll read everything, and steal any good ideas.

Tally ho.

Cool - I hope you enjoy the future

I've had dealings with the Ride Forever people in this area - good people.

[F5 Dave]

R1200RT LC these days
Ahh a regular thimbleweight

[BMWGSER]

Best of luck in the new role , will catch up with you when they send you to the Burt Munroe rally in February. You will be a asset to Dave and his team .they do a great job.

[nzspokes]

Big shoes to fill indeed. DK has done a great job.

Sadly the ones that need the most are the least likely to attend, then complain about ACC costs.

I do wonder if "type" training ads would be of use. So Cruiser specific training, then sport bike etc. Its the same really under the skin but a different way to hook attention.

[MD]

I remember years ago the Police spent a day near Featherston stopping every rider coming off the Remutaka Hill for a friendly chat. I was impressed. No WOF or rego or licence checking, even if it was glaringly obvisious to them, just asking if we were interested in road safety courses or something along those lines. I think they had questionnaires for us abut riding and safety.

[rastuscat]

I need a new word for "safe".

Ride Forever courses, without doubt, scientifically proven, improve riders safety. But few people will go along to become safer. "Safe" is about as dull as an old English penny.

What words would attract you to do a course?

This applies right across the driver education sphere. Put the word "safe" in a course and it sounds dull.

[george formby]

I need a new word for "safe".

Ride Forever courses, without doubt, scientifically proven, improve riders safety. But few people will go along to become safer. "Safe" is about as dull as an old English penny.

What words would attract you to do a course?

This applies right across the driver education sphere. Put the word "safe" in a course and it sounds dull.

When I think about the training we have done I default to becoming a smarter and better rider rather than just a safer rider.

Something which has never been pushed for the courses we have completed is how much fun they are!

[rastuscat]

When I think about the training we have done I default to becoming a smarter and better rider rather than just a safer rider.

Something which has never been pushed for the courses we have completed is how much fun they are!

Food for thought. Thanks.

[Gremlin]

Something which has never been pushed for the courses we have completed is how much fun they are!
One of the sentiments I've heard is, I ride my bike for fun, training takes the fun out of it...

Preconceptions of course, but that's what you're trying to combat.

[FJRider]

One of the sentiments I've heard is, I ride my bike for fun, training takes the fun out of it...

Preconceptions of course, but that's what you're trying to combat.

With training, the fun goes when you are still learning. Regardless of what you are training to do. Learning new ways to help yourself keep safe can be hard work ... but the chance of living longer should make the time spent worthwhile. But the value is noticeable when you put the training into practice on a ride ... and find they were right.

A large proportion of my motorcycling is fun. But on a number of trips ... long distance (going home) in the rain and wind (the odd time in the dark as well) it is far from fun. And when circumstances repeat itself ... we (well most of us) do it again. Such is motorcycling.

[BMWST?]

become a better rider,improve your riding,become visible.Training should be free we all pay a extra levy to the acc on top of our "no fault" levy

[george formby]

Ride smarter - Ride better - Ride home - Ride forever

Cheesy and impossible for us mortals.

[caspernz]

I need a new word for "safe".

Ride Forever courses, without doubt, scientifically proven, improve riders safety. But few people will go along to become safer. "Safe" is about as dull as an old English penny.

What words would attract you to do a course?

This applies right across the driver education sphere. Put the word "safe" in a course and it sounds dull.

The harsh reality might be that any post-licence training creates two broad groups of riders.
One group becomes safer (and in the process often faster as well) whereas the other group now merely crashes at a higher speed.

We need to appeal to someone's ego to attend a course, then put a leash on that ego during the course, while we alter their outlook.

Had a chap today who was astonished how an eye lead time of 12 seconds or more made him faster, whilst feeling slower, all because he now has more "time to react" :cool: now where have I read that before?? :2thumbsup Oh and safer as well, which wasn't lost on him, yet he got more excited about going faster.
Can't see ACC being keen to promote R4E along the lines of "be faster than your riding mates" anytime soon though.

[rastuscat]

The harsh reality might be that any post-licence training creates two broad groups of riders.
One group becomes safer (and in the process often faster as well) whereas the other group now merely crashes at a higher speed.

We need to appeal to someone's ego to attend a course, then put a leash on that ego during the course, while we alter their outlook.

Had a chap today who was astonished how an eye lead time of 12 seconds or more made him faster, whilst feeling slower, all because he now has more "time to react" :cool: now where have I read that before?? :2thumbsup Oh and safer as well, which wasn't lost on him, yet he got more excited about going faster.
Can't see ACC being keen to promote R4E along the lines of "be faster than your riding mates" anytime soon though.

The problem with "fast" is it creates greater kinetic energy dispersion.

Smoothe is the new fast. Creating smoother riding is a great way to enjoy riding while reducing risk.

[caspernz]

The problem with "fast" is it creates greater kinetic energy dispersion.

Smoothe is the new fast. Creating smoother riding is a great way to enjoy riding while reducing risk.

Smooth operator is how we talk about a well trained/practiced driver in the trucking sphere, maybe it'll catch on among bikers if it's packaged right :drool:

[Scuba_Steve]

I need a new word for "safe".


Best I could come up with was "skill" but you'd have to imply the "fun"skill rather than the "educational" skill

[Viking01]

I need a new word for "safe".

Ride Forever courses, without doubt, scientifically proven, improve riders safety. But few people will go along to become safer. "Safe" is about as dull as an old English penny.

What words would attract you to do a course?

This applies right across the driver education sphere. Put the word "safe" in a course and it sounds dull.

Not one word, but why not "ride with reduced risk". Surely that is what training is about ?

[Blackbird]

Not one word, but why not "ride with reduced risk". Surely that is what training is about ?

.......and don't forget "ride with more enjoyment". That's certainly been my experience since upskilling.

[rastuscat]

Lots of good thoughts on this topic. Cheers

[James Deuce]

I'd love to participate in further riding training and refresher courses BUT , the reality is that they only seem to hold courses in the main centres and there is no attempt to get to provincial centres. If there was a course 2 or three times a year within an hour of home, I'd give it a crack more often. It would also be nice for an instructor to let you know if they aren't going to turn up.

[JimO]

Sadly the ones that need the most are the least likely to attend, then complain about ACC costs.

.
a bit like the 2 areshats on harleys that were leaving the Long Drop rally at Duntroon this morning , just past Kurow at the Waitaki dam there is a stretch of road works with a one way bit controlled by lights, these two clowns went through the red and appeared around the corner in front of us us we were moving off on the green light, lucky for them i stopped and let them past, if it was your usual chinese tourist in his white corolla up that way they would have been toast, then everyone would say fucken cagers need to learn how to drive

[nzspokes]

a bit like the 2 areshats on harleys that were leaving the Long Drop rally at Duntroon this morning , just past Kurow at the Waitaki dam there is a stretch of road works with a one way bit controlled by lights, these two clowns went through the red and appeared around the corner in front of us us we were moving off on the green light, lucky for them i stopped and let them past, if it was your usual chinese tourist in his white corolla up that way they would have been toast, then everyone would say fucken cagers need to learn how to drive

Hear ya.

Was on a ride with my beloved and making a RH turn on state Highway 1. 2 bellends on Hogs decided to overtake. :wacko:

Both of us were indicating the turn. 0 situational awareness.

[george formby]

To cool for school will never go away, it's reaching those who hang with the arse hats but are actually quite smart.

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[Berries]

What words would attract you to do a course?
Moist.


mftc

[rastuscat]

I'd love to participate in further riding training and refresher courses BUT , the reality is that they only seem to hold courses in the main centres and there is no attempt to get to provincial centres. If there was a course 2 or three times a year within an hour of home, I'd give it a crack more often. It would also be nice for an instructor to let you know if they aren't going to turn up.

The challenge for providers is to get enough people to attend. It's a chicken and egg situation. If enough people were keen to do a course to make it economically viable, a provider would set it up and run it.

Historically though, I'm aware of a provider who set up 8 courses in an area over a summer but had to cancel 5 of them due to a lack of interest by people.

Having the demand meet the supply is the challenge.

[HEsch]

The challenge for providers is to get enough people to attend. It's a chicken and egg situation. If enough people were keen to do a course to make it economically viable, a provider would set it up and run it.

Historically though, I'm aware of a provider who set up 8 courses in an area over a summer but had to cancel 5 of them due to a lack of interest by people.

Having the demand meet the supply is the challenge.

That's the same problem we have with, for example, the other kind of cyclists (bi). The roads aren't safe so they don't use them so when we go out to measure numbers, there aren't any, resulting in no/insufficient capacityon the new/improved/safer road. Unfortunately it is chicken and egg, perhaps some targeted advertising to get a minimum of 4 then wider advertisement to make up the numbers?

PS apologies for not responding to you about an earlier research thread. We are in the business case world so all very theoretical.

[jellywrestler]

Zip ties on most of the broken YKK zip pulls at mine.

It's nout to do with broken zips to me.
i've found at times riding along then thinking if i'd left a pocket unzipped, maybe a wallet sunnies phone etc has been used on the side of the road or at a stop, or all three, so get worried i might lose something as i lost a wallet this way once. sometimes it's not east to pullover then the mind wanders from the road worrying and that's not good
simple answer i've done is some coloured pipe cleaners from the two dollar shop looped through them, then it's easy to grab and check with gloves, no fumbling, and close on the move, also can be seen in the mirror and then you've got an answer so you can get back to concentrating on the road

[onearmedbandit]

It's nout to do with broken zips to me.
i've found at times riding along then thinking if i'd left a pocket unzipped, maybe a wallet sunnies phone etc has been used on the side of the road or at a stop, or all three, so get worried i might lose something as i lost a wallet this way once. sometimes it's not east to pullover then the mind wanders from the road worrying and that's not good
simple answer i've done is some coloured pipe cleaners from the two dollar shop looped through them, then it's easy to grab and check with gloves, no fumbling, and close on the move, also can be seen in the mirror and then you've got an answer so you can get back to concentrating on the road

I go through the same thing. So I go through a mental checklist each time I get on the bike, ticking everything off (phone, wallet, zips, etc) before setting off. That way I can concentrate on the ride and not worry about any of that. Works for me but YMMV.

[FJRider]

... Having the demand meet the supply is the challenge.

Do Insurance companies offer cheaper insurance rates for those completing the courses .. ???

[SaferRides]

I go through the same thing. So I go through a mental checklist each time I get on the bike, ticking everything off (phone, wallet, zips, etc) before setting off. That way I can concentrate on the ride and not worry about any of that. Works for me but YMMV.Yes, I started the same process after leaving my wallet and phone on the seat and riding off. Someone handed in the wallet to the local police station but what happened to the phone was barely believable.

I called the phone when I got home and someone answered it! He lived in Naike on SH22 so the phone must have got stuck somewhere on the bike, then finally fell off outside his house. He found it beside the drive.

The phone case was trashed but it did its job as the phone was OK. A bit of a ride to retrieve it but I never expected to see it again.

[rastuscat]

Do Insurance companies offer cheaper insurance rates for those completing the courses .. ???

Some insurance companies have signed a memorandum of understanding with Ride Forever.

Companies include Vero, Protecta, the Kiwibike companies. Mainly the ones who specialize in motorcycles.

Some do a discounted premium, some reduce your excess for a year, some do different things.

It's worth checking with your own insurer. Ride Forever courses reduce your risk, so reduce the exposure of the insurance company.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I need a new word for "safe".

Ride Forever courses, without doubt, scientifically proven, improve riders safety. But few people will go along to become safer. "Safe" is about as dull as an old English penny.

What words would attract you to do a course?

This applies right across the driver education sphere. Put the word "safe" in a course and it sounds dull.

some agencies spend a lot of their time training in preparation for the thing they do, military, SAR, FENZ etc, maybe you can tap into that idea? "Train hard, ride easy"

Endorsement seems to work as well, I like the social media vids with the lads from the Warriors, that kind of thing
Maybe Avalon Biddle, Sloan Frost, the various Rees's, Jay Lawrence, successful (and fast) riders who know the value of training, they just don't arrive at the track, pull the bike out and everything clicks, they have to work at being as good as they are.
Maybe they can talk about the difference between road and track? Av has done some stuff in the magazines and her own FB about road training, maybe tap into that a bit more?

[jellywrestler]

Maybe Avalon Biddle, Sloan Frost, the various Rees's, Jay Lawrence, successful (and fast) riders who know the value of training, they just don't arrive at the track, pull the bike out and everything clicks, they have to work at being as good as they are.
Maybe they can talk about the difference between road and track? Av has done some stuff in the magazines and her own FB about road training, maybe tap into that a bit more?

Avalon has talked at a number of ride forever days i interveiwed her at the first one she did and steered he conversation towards prep and gear.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Avalon has talked at a number of ride forever days i interveiwed her at the first one she did and steered he conversation towards prep and gear.

Am aware, I met Avalon and heard her presentation at a Shiny Side Up. My point is she has a useful (and powerful) message which could be utilised more/betterer. I wonder if using mainstream media would add to effectiveness? Would do Motorsport no harm to have it’s profile raised simultaneously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rastuscat]

Ahh a regular thimbleweight

I shocked the guy I got it from by hopping on it and saying it felt small.

[rastuscat]

become a better rider,improve your riding,become visible.Training should be free we all pay a extra levy to the acc on top of our "no fault" levy

The courses are almost free, and if you qualify for the Cashback scheme, you actually get paid to do them.

[rastuscat]

Thread dredge.

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/162646-PM-me-for-free-stuff/page9?highlight=Puck

[rastuscat]

Who would have known that I'd be going to the job I'm going to when I gave all those pucks away in 2013/2014.

[jellywrestler]

Who would have known that I'd be going to the job I'm going to when I gave all those pucks away in 2013/2014.

still got one in my shower as a soap holder.....

[JimO]

I wonder if using mainstream media would add to effectiveness? Would do Motorsport no harm to have it’s profile raised simultaneously.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
you would need to have a rugby ball not a motorcycle for mainstream media

[Euro2018]

I've completed at least four Ride Forever courses.
It might be stating the obvious, but I think they have made me a better car driver as well as a better bike rider.
There could be an angle there somehow.

[rastuscat]

I've completed at least four Ride Forever courses.
It might be stating the obvious, but I think they have made me a better car driver as well as a better bike rider.
There could be an angle there somehow.

In my humble opinion, there's a hierarchy of improvement.

Being a cyclist makes you a better motorcyclist. Being a motorcyclist makes you a better car driver.

That first point might stir up some controversy, but I have found it to be true.

[rastuscat]

Summary

https://www.rideforever.co.nz/about/

[Scuba_Steve]

In my humble opinion, there's a hierarchy of improvement.

Being a cyclist makes you a better motorcyclist. Being a motorcyclist makes you a better car driver.

That first point might stir up some controversy, but I have found it to be true.

Yea, I'd have to agree with the 2nd part (and studies will do it too) but as for the 1st part, I'll agree deadly pedley does give you an appreciation of the roading but it also teaches you some really bad habits so I'd take a 50:50 on that one

[F5 Dave]

I dunno. Have you ever wondered for a second. Hmm traffic stopped. Can I filter. No wait!! I'm in the car today. ;)

[rastuscat]

I know the rules on filtering and lane splitting very well. I've lectured on them for some years.

I'm moving to Wellington, from Rangiora, where lane splitting in basically no existent. Mind you, even if I could, I probably wouldn't.

But in Wellington, I might reconsider. I'll only ever do it legally, as it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

[Scuba_Steve]

I know the rules on filtering and lane splitting very well. I've lectured on them for some years.

I'm moving to Wellington, from Rangiora, where lane splitting in basically no existent. Mind you, even if I could, I probably wouldn't.

But in Wellington, I might reconsider. I'll only ever do it legally, as it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

It's almost a necessity in WellyTown, especially when some Muppet crashes (pretty much every wet day & twice a week)

I take it by location you're setting up shop Paremata ways?
Take a trip round Grays Rd, let us know what you think of the speed limit they've set for it; in the interest of fairness start from Paremata Rd & do the loop.

[merv]

Welcome to the great city of Porirua rastuscat :yes:

[rastuscat]

It's almost a necessity in WellyTown, especially when some Muppet crashes (pretty much every wet day & twice a week)

I take it by location you're setting up shop Paremata ways?

Take a trip round Grays Rd, let us know what you think of the speed limit they've set for it; in the interest of fairness start from Paremata Rd & do the loop.

Yes, Paremata.

Grays Road, on the other side of the harbour. I've ridden that one a few times. Lots, actually. I can understand your frustration, as I used to ride that when I was learning to ride as a Popo. IIRC it was 100 kmh back then.

Thing is, between 2010 and 2014 there were a stonking number of crashes there. I can also understand why they brought the limit down. Any 5 year period shows a large number of loss of control crashes.

That's what causes engineers and politicians to bring the limits down. Evidence.

Ironically, traffic speeds often aren't much more than 60 anyway. Megamaps reports the mean speed as 55 - 59.

[Scuba_Steve]

Yes, Paremata.

Grays Road, on the other side of the harbour. I've ridden that one a few times. Lots, actually. I can understand your frustration, as I used to ride that when I was learning to ride as a Popo. IIRC it was 100 kmh back then.

Thing is, between 2010 and 2014 there were a stonking number of crashes there. I can also understand why they brought the limit down. Any 5 year period shows a large number of loss of control crashes.

That's what causes engineers and politicians to bring the limits down. Evidence.

Ironically, traffic speeds often aren't much more than 60 anyway. Megamaps reports the mean speed as 55 - 59.

Crashes tended to be on the 25km/h corners & not sure the drop to 60km/h has done anything but I know the 1st drop to 80km/h did shit all to nothing to stop them; I'd have a guess the 60km/h is doing shit all to nothing too if not worse as now people are entering at a slower speed so prob has them thinking they can do it at that speed.

I wouldn't call the change "evidence" the term "Knee jerk" is a better representation. But I have heard rumors the true nature of the decrease is the lower upkeep [read: shittier roads] & allowing them to increase housing along the road (can't confirm either but seems plausible when it comes to councils)

Yea I could see the mean being round there but that would probably mean the mode is up round 80-90, speeds that road is suited for

IMO it's not the road that's got worse over the years, it's the drivers. That's not going to get any better while they continue to retard roads to suit the retards, focus is always on the wrong thing; but then stopping people who can't drive from doing so might lose votes & that's more important than public safety

[rastuscat]

Crashes tended to be on the 25km/h corners & not sure the drop to 60km/h has done anything but I know the 1st drop to 80km/h did shit all to nothing to stop them; I'd have a guess the 60km/h is doing shit all to nothing too if not worse as now people are entering at a slower speed so prob has them thinking they can do it at that speed.

I wouldn't call the change "evidence" the term "Knee jerk" is a better representation. But I have heard rumors the true nature of the decrease is the lower upkeep [read: shittier roads] & allowing them to increase housing along the road (can't confirm either but seems plausible when it comes to councils)

Yea I could see the mean being round there but that would probably mean the mode is up round 80-90, speeds that road is suited for

IMO it's not the road that's got worse over the years, it's the drivers. That's not going to get any better while they continue to retard roads to suit the retards, focus is always on the wrong thing; but then stopping people who can't drive from doing so might lose votes & that's more important than public safety

Bike arrives on 9 January, I'll have a few days to familiarize with the surroundings.

I'm quite a bit more sedate on the bike now than I used to be. I tend to be risk averse. Reduced speed limits don't cause me angst, and as a result, I live with less angst.

[Dodgy]

It would be nice to meet you, I live in Camborne, so we are almost neighbours!

The Paremata loop used to be a bit of fun - less so now. Yes, it will be interesting to get your considered feedback on the new speeds there. Yes, accidents have not been uncommon, even the Police/MoT forget which way the road goes now. I'd old enough to remember the MoT officer having too much fun in his patrol car and thought 140 would be more fun around the inlet but he ended up getting his feet and the car in the water. Thankfully for him, his dad was also one of the team (area commander) so no real repercussions!

[SaferRides]

I suspect none of this fiddling with speed limits will make much difference. There are clearly some rural roads on the outskirts of Auckland that should have lower limits, but AT were obviously too busy with more important things.

Then there is the 80 limit in Dome Valley. A very busy road that has desperately needed safety improvements for years, but no, let's just lower the speed limit instead. That's worked well.

[merv]

The Paremata loop used to be a bit of fun - less so now.

Some biker on a black BMW they are saying is the one that perished on SH58 between James Cook Drive and Joseph Banks Driver yesterday and that is the less curvy part of the road and it is an 80km/hr zone.

[Navy Boy]

Bike arrives on 9 January, I'll have a few days to familiarize with the surroundings.

I'm quite a bit more sedate on the bike now than I used to be. I tend to be risk averse. Reduced speed limits don't cause me angst, and as a result, I live with less angst.

I've always liked the line of 'Do your machine justice by riding it better'. All our machines are marvels of modern engineering - I don't care what you ride it is an impressive piece of design and human achievement. Therefore I view wanting to ride it better as entirely normal. Having done my recent track day at Taupo on my MV Rivale it was the rider who was the limiting factor, not the machine. The same applies to riding on the roads IMHO. :yes:

[Bonez]

I've always liked the line of 'Do your machine justice by riding it better'. All our machines are marvels of modern engineering - I don't care what you ride it is an impressive piece of design and human achievement. Therefore I view wanting to ride it better as entirely normal. Having done my recent track day at Taupo on my MV Rivale it was the rider who was the limiting factor, not the machine. The same applies to riding on the roads IMHO. :yes:Road riding is a totally different affair. On the track you have no opposing drivers, staying within your lane,stock/animals/pedestrians,cow shit, pea gravel, trucks, cars, caravans, fallen trees etc etc. There's no comparison at all. If you think there is you shouldn't be riding on the road.

[jellywrestler]

Road riding is a totally different affair. On the track you have no opposing drivers, staying within your lane,stock/animals/pedestrians,cow shit, pea gravel, trucks, cars, caravans, fallen trees etc etc. There's no comparison at all. If you think there is you shouldn't be riding on the road.

yeah but a day at the track in controlled situations can leave you to try differnt things, improve, insert that into your memory banks then when out on the roads you can leave that part to what now comes naturally, and your focus is on other things, like girls in scholl uniforms which are rare at the track

[Bonez]

yeah but a day at the track in controlled situations can leave you to try differnt things, improve, insert that into your memory banks then when out on the roads you can leave that part to what now comes naturally, and your focus is on other things, like girls in scholl uniforms which are rare at the trackI thought you always wore a skirt at the track Spyda to compensate for that.

[caspernz]

yeah but a day at the track in controlled situations can leave you to try differnt things, improve, insert that into your memory banks then when out on the roads you can leave that part to what now comes naturally, and your focus is on other things, like girls in scholl uniforms which are rare at the track

For some road riders, suggesting they spend a bit of time at the track in order to learn transferable skills, seems to offend them as much as suggesting they wear the school girls' skirt.

I'm not a racer at all, but I do venture to the track on occasion. For me it's about what my bike is capable of, changing lines thru a corner, leaning further, accurate throttle use in a safe environment. Or even something as mundane as tyre pressures and suspension settings :innocent:

A new tagline to use for R4E, I'll go with the "train hard, ride easy" one already suggested :2thumbsup

[roogazza]

I've always liked the line of 'Do your machine justice by riding it better'. All our machines are marvels of modern engineering - I don't care what you ride it is an impressive piece of design and human achievement. Therefore I view wanting to ride it better as entirely normal. Having done my recent track day at Taupo on my MV Rivale it was the rider who was the limiting factor, not the machine. The same applies to riding on the roads IMHO. :yes:

Agree Navy, its all about the turkey on the bars in my book !
Every time I get off mine,I'm thinking "that bike is way better than me" . :yes:

and No ! I don't need a rider training course ! :laugh:

[cheshirecat]

Congrats on the move. Will have to introduce you to the House of Boyles. Pete's tidied it up a bit but ones bike still aquires some greasy paw marks after a service so hope has not been lost.

[jellywrestler]

I know the rules on filtering and lane splitting very well. I've lectured on them for some years.

I'm moving to Wellington, from Rangiora, where lane splitting in basically no existent. Mind you, even if I could, I probably wouldn't.

But in Wellington, I might reconsider. I'll only ever do it legally, as it would be hypocritical to do otherwise.

had some clown doing it today when i was lane changing, he was about three cars back, i drive a hi top van and had my indicator on for plenty of time, the cars had made a gap and even after i'd seen him clearly several cars backand started moving he still cut through, he won't last long, i knew he was there but a lot wouldn't it was a perfect storm for a crash.

[jellywrestler]

For some road riders, suggesting they spend a bit of time at the track in order to learn transferable skills, seems to offend them as much as suggesting they wear the school girls' skirt.

I'm not a racer at all, but I do venture to the track on occasion. For me it's about what my bike is capable of, changing lines thru a corner, leaning further, accurate throttle use in a safe environment. Or even something as mundane as tyre pressures and suspension settings :innocent:

A new tagline to use for R4E, I'll go with the "train hard, ride easy" one already suggested :2thumbsup

when my mrs was learning we took her to the track, slow as but she learned a heap in a controlled environment and same corner every couple of minutes was perfect, then she rode the parapara, i said take every yellow signed corner with a speed on it at that speed, i insilled confidence in her that these were set by a pendulum in a car and she learn't heaps from doing those corners with a preset level of confidence in them

[rastuscat]

when my mrs was learning we took her to the track, slow as but she learned a heap in a controlled environment and same corner every couple of minutes was perfect, then she rode the parapara, i said take every yellow signed corner with a speed on it at that speed, i insilled confidence in her that these were set by a pendulum in a car and she learn't heaps from doing those corners with a preset level of confidence in them

That pendulum test is a bit old school, but still valid.

[Navy Boy]

had some clown doing it today when i was lane changing, he was about three cars back, i drive a hi top van and had my indicator on for plenty of time, the cars had made a gap and even after i'd seen him clearly several cars backand started moving he still cut through, he won't last long, i knew he was there but a lot wouldn't it was a perfect storm for a crash.

Yep - Riding to and from work during the week on the scooter you see plenty of poorly-advised filtering carried out by bikers. As convenient as filtering is you are opening yourself up to being in car drivers' blind spots and as such it's up to the motorcyclist to be prepared to stop in a suitably appropriate distance. Having said that done at a sensible speed and without too much speed differential between you and the other vehicles it is one of the things that makes biking to work particularly satisfying. :yes:

[rastuscat]

Yep - Riding to and from work during the week on the scooter you see plenty of poorly-advised filtering carried out by bikers. As convenient as filtering is you are opening yourself up to being in car drivers' blind spots and as such it's up to the motorcyclist to be prepared to stop in a suitably appropriate distance. Having said that done at a sensible speed and without too much speed differential between you and the other vehicles it is one of the things that makes biking to work particularly satisfying. :yes:

I'm going to learn that when I get into the new role. The Centennial Highway sounds plum for it.

[SaferRides]

Met some others riders today and rode with them back to Auckland. Very obvious that the person I followed had done a R4E course by their positioning in corners.

I usually ride on my own but it was a pleasure to follow someone who knew how to ride. An all too rare experience.

[caspernz]

Met some others riders today and rode with them back to Auckland. Very obvious that the person I followed had done a R4E course by their positioning in corners.

I usually ride on my own but it was a pleasure to follow someone who knew how to ride. An all too rare experience.

You'll find that Roadcraft, which is used by R4E, is by no means unique to R4E. You won't learn Roadcraft in one outing...it's a process not an event :msn-wink:

[Bonez]

Met some others riders today and rode with them back to Auckland. Very obvious that the person I followed had done a R4E course by their positioning in corners.

I usually ride on my own but it was a pleasure to follow someone who knew how to ride. An all too rare experience.C'mon tell the truth. You were just admiring his sweet checks in those tight leathers.

[rastuscat]

You'll find that Roadcraft, which is used by R4E, is by no means unique to R4E. You won't learn Roadcraft in one outing...it's a process not an event :msn-wink:


Indeed. R4E is a snapshot of Roadcraft, at least how I present it.

Advanced skills are the basics done consistently and well.

[SaferRides]

C'mon tell the truth. You were just admiring his sweet checks in those tight leathers.I don't follow that close!