Why change your oil?

[rocketman1]

Has anyone tested a bike that has been serviced regularly with oil changes against one that hasnt.
Have I been brainwashed to think I should change the oil regularly.

I have read of some riders that never change the oil, in their bikes or cars and it does not seem to effect their performance or reliablilty.

Is it just a brainwash from the oil companies who say there will be dirt / grit etc in your oil that will scour out the motor. Who says?

I have heard of a taxi company that never changed the oil in there cars, and the motors all ran well over 250-300km

I am not likely accept this thinking just yet, but would like to hear from those that never change their oil.

[Bonez]

Sounds like a load of bullshit to me just like the line you Must use Motorcycle oil on motorcycles. If the oil/filter hadn't been changed on a regular basis my CB550F wouldn't have over 160,000kms up.

[FJRider]

... I am not likely accept this thinking just yet, but would like to hear from those that never change their oil.

You wont hear from THEM. They're out working extra hours to pay for the engine rebuild ... :doh:

[OddDuck]

+1. Not many people 'fess up and post things like "so I went cheap and rooted my motor, I'm an idiot, and here's what to not do..."

Oil and filters are cheap, motor rebuilds aren't... the thing is that stretching maintenance intervals or abandoning them entirely is that it's something that you can get away with for a while. It'll look like it works, at first anyway. If there's a problem a year or two down the track, they'll be super quiet about that and then move the vehicle on. Even if that isn't happening, there's what you hear at a distance, from an owner who may or may not be technically gifted, versus checking the vehicle itself out up close. You may find that there's a lot of cases of "it still goes so what's the problem" out there...

Motorcycle specific oil is simply oil without friction modifier additives, which can bond to wet clutch plates and cause the clutch to slip. When they call it Moto-specific or similar, it isn't a marketing gimmick, although it certainly looks like one.

[layton]

+1. Not many people 'fess up and post things like "so I went cheap and rooted my motor, I'm an idiot, and here's what to not do..."

Oil and filters are cheap, motor rebuilds aren't... the thing is that stretching maintenance intervals or abandoning them entirely is something that you can get away with for a while. It'll look like it works, at first anyway. If there's a problem a year or two down the track, they'll be super quiet about that and then move the vehicle on. Even if that isn't happening, there's what you hear at a distance, from an owner who may or may not be technically gifted, versus checking the vehicle itself out up close. You may find that there's a lot of cases of "it still goes so what's the problem" out there...

Motorcycle specific oil is simply oil without friction modifier additives, which can bond to wet clutch plates and cause the clutch to slip. When they call it Moto-specific or similar, it isn't a marketing gimmick, although it certainly looks like one.

I agree on the motorcycle oil thing, the Ducati monster I had didn't care what you fed it, the aprilia I currently have throws a paddy if I dont put motorcycle specific oil in.. the clutch becomes hard work.

[BMWST?]

i once worked with a guy who had quite a nice Honda Accord.One day he didnt have it cos it just stopped on the way home.It turns out that he had never changed or even checked the oil .It had seized through lack of oil.

[F5 Dave]

Have you ever changed oil on a bike that hasn't been done for a while? Thin and watery followed by grungy at the end. You draw your own conclusions pretty quickly.

[sidecar bob]

When I was involved with BMW cars, the ones that had been religiously serviced at the factory specified (for environmental reasons) 25000km tended to harden all the rubber gaskets & piss oil & when you opened them up to fix the leaks, they were like a coal mine inside.
The ones serviced at 10,000km however, were perfect.
They also started to drink oil past the 10,000km service mark.
And at 25000km the cartridge oil filters often broke up on removal & you had to dig it out in bits with long nosed pliers.

[Grumph]

Guy I knew - quite a clued-up mechanic - bought a fairly low mileage Falcon ute. A six. It came from a cocky up North Canty and had been his good go-to-town car from new. He dropped the oil and changed it, did the tappets but couldn't find any service records. He showed me the oil when I was in the shop and I reckoned it was the recycled oil you could buy then - it had a distinctive smell.
Anyway, less then 500km later the engine was out for a full rebuild. He'd done some asking in the area it came from and the cocky was known to simply top up oil in all his equipment but never change it...

One of the many areas he went wrong was changing it to high-detergent Valvoline - his favourite oil. It flushed all the shit out of the hidden crevices very quickly. Crank I think went straight to max undersize shells. Even the cam and cam bearings were fucked.

I won't name him, a lot of the older ChCh guys will know him anyway.

[Bonez]

Have you ever changed oil on a bike that hasn't been done for a while? Thin and watery followed by grungy at the end. You draw your own conclusions pretty quickly.
That's usually if the been sitting idle for months after miles of slow around town riding with the enigine not reachoing running temperature. If you fire it up and go for a decent run all that condensation related sludge will burn off/evaporate..

[F5 Dave]

Its every bike I bought in the 80s and 90s, I'd give it an oil change as soon as practicable and always after a ride.

[pete376403]

That's usually if the been sitting idle for months after miles of slow around town riding with the enigine not reachoing running temperature. If you fire it up and go for a decent run all that condensation related sludge will burn off/evaporate..


The water component of the sludge will be evaporated by heat. the acids, soot/carbon, and engine particles will remain behind. The detergents in the oil hold this in suspension (why used oil is black - its the soot) to be removed when the oil is changed. But the detergent has a finite capacity to hold this, eventually it will settle out, block small passages, etc. When a litre of oil costs $20(?) compared to an engine rebuild ($4000 or more) why would you not change the oil and filter on a regular basis?

[HenryDorsetCase]

Take my mother in law.

Please.

Now's good.

OK with that out of the way, she bought a Honda car in the late 80's early 90's. I think it was called Aerodeck? It was a wagon. It came with three year factory servicing. It turns out that that was the servicing it got. She drove it for 260000 k's. without changing the oil after the dealer stopped calling her for her "free" services. Actually the thing that let go was the cambelt (or cam drive anyway) but it completely lunched the motor. valves impacted the pistons and it bent a rod and stuff.

The weird thing is she was "disappointed" in it and we were all like "how the fuck did it keep going for five years"?

She's currently doing the same thing to a Mitsubishi.....

[Bonez]

The water component of the sludge will be evaporated by heat. the acids, soot/carbon, and engine particles will remain behind. The detergents in the oil hold this in suspension (why used oil is black - its the soot) to be removed when the oil is changed. But the detergent has a finite capacity to hold this, eventually it will settle out, block small passages, etc. When a litre of oil costs $20(?) compared to an engine rebuild ($4000 or more) why would you not change the oil and filter on a regular basis?I've use car engine oil in ALL my motorcycles since 1978 when I first started riding and I've had over 100,000kms up on a few of them. $30 for 4ltr is better wrt cost benefit analysis. Just change it at 5-6 1000kms along with the filter if long riding and 4000kms if mainly around town riding. So what is the advantage of dedicated motorcycle oil at almost twice the cost again? If I wanted more detergent I'd put a run of deisel oil through it for a oil change period or even a mix of of deisol/car 50/50 mix of the same wieght. I's certainly not rocket science as some seem to think.

My goto motor oil was Castrol GTX for most of that time now I'm using Gulf Western. Before I got sick I used GW for four years.

Edit-Did some oil filter pricing today. The cheapest were OEM ones from Courasy Susuki. While I was there I asked what I sould pay private sale for the bike. after telling s small fib. There valuation was $3k -$2.5 so right on the money.

[Jeeper]

Do your motorcycles have dry clutch or divorced transmissions?

[Bonez]

Do your motorcycles have dry clutch or divorced transmissions?Wet clutch. My R80 was the only bike with a dry clutch but my brother has it now. Hypoid gear oil I changed every 20,000km. Never ever had to change clutch plates in the bikes I've owned. Springs on the CB550 around the 80 ,000k mark iirc.

Edit-Sorry I owned a small framed BMW R65 for 5 years in the 80s..

[jellywrestler]

i ran my mitsi lancer for 90000kms without changing the oil, just topping it up . it died of a broken windscreen and rust failing warrant stuff

[pritch]

Motorcycle specific oil is simply oil without friction modifier additives, which can bond to wet clutch plates and cause the clutch to slip.

Some motorcycle oils are simply oil without friction modifying additives, I will leave those to the penny pinchers, others are a lot more than that.

The manual for my bike comes with the recommendation to use semi or full synthetic 10/40, so full synthetic is what goes in and it goes in when due.

Some oils are almost manufactured for specific bike types, eg Mobil 1 V Twin which is recommended for Harleys and the metric cruisers. You definitely should not put that in your 916 or your SP 1 etc.

[F5 Dave]

So bearing in mind that the original post was probably a Troll. . . What's with people checking thier tyre pressure? If its flat you will notice the tyre all squashed up. You can deal with that next time you need gas.

[Bonez]

So bearing in mind that the original post was probably a Troll. . . What's with people checking thier tyre pressure? If its flat you will notice the tyre all squashed up. You can deal with that next time you need gas.Thats what service attendents are for isn't it?

[GazzaH]

Changing the oil and filter is one of those zen jobs. It's not time critical, so it can wait for the right mood. Why would a bikey not want to do it?

[Bonez]

Changing the oil and filter is one of those zen jobs. It's not time critical, so it can wait for the right mood. Why would a bikey not want to do it?I'm not a bikey. You have been watching "Wild Hog" to many times. I' am a motocycle rider/motocyclist.

[husaberg]

When I was involved with BMW cars, the ones that had been religiously serviced at the factory specified (for environmental reasons) 25000km tended to harden all the rubber gaskets & piss oil & when you opened them up to fix the leaks, they were like a coal mine inside.
The ones serviced at 10,000km however, were perfect.
They also started to drink oil past the 10,000km service mark.
And at 25000km the cartridge oil filters often broke up on removal & you had to dig it out in bits with long nosed pliers.

I was pretty shocked when i noticed the first service and oil change on my Toyota ute was at 15,000 Km. I know modern Synthetics are good and breakdown less in use but 15k seems excessive?
That said on the WR250R you apparently do not need to check the tappets until 45,000km i assume they are shim and bucket i cant be arsed loking nor is it worthwhile me even doing them as by the time i get the corrct shims ans tool it would be cheaper to ge tthe dealer to do them.
I remember people selling Amsol used to tell people they didn't need to change the oil hardly ever...... it used to stay yellow, i assume it had no detergents in it.

[ellipsis]

...new oil and filter not only feels good..it is good...anyone that wants to debate that, is somewhat deficient in the neural pathways that make rational thinking on lubrication 101 hard to figure out...ffs...

[kinger]

I'm not a bikey…... I' am a motocycle rider/motocyclist.

I've always just been a "biker."

[Bonez]

Some people just can't pronounce big words.

[GazzaH]

I've always just been a "biker."

Sorry guys for my poor choice of words. I meant no offense.

There is something strangely satisfying, though, about oil changes. For me anyway.

[Laava]

My take on that is the higher performance the machine is, the more important the oil change and oil type is. If you want to argue about it, go to a Ducati forum and see how you get on. Those guys are fucking passionate about viscosity.

[Bonez]

Sorry guys for my poor choice of words. I meant no offense.

There is something strangely satisfying, though, about oil changes. For me anyway.Non taken it was all in jest. It's a almost complete blood transfusion for the bike. Doing any maintenance without getting charged exorbitant fees is good for the wallet also. Just know your limits.

[Bonez]

My take on that is the higher performance the machine is, the more important the oil change and oil type is. If you want to argue about it, go to a Ducati forum and see how you get on. Those guys are fucking passionate about viscosity.
I hear Ducati forums are a bit like Amiga forums....

[F5 Dave]

. . . Those guys are fucking passionate about viscosity.

I like going fast too:wings:

[Laava]

Haha Dave!😆😆

[Paul in NZ]

To me the answer is - it depends... I regularly change the oil and I don't for a second think the extended servicing times on my Mazda 6 are realistic. You can literally smell when the oil needs changing so I change it.. 10K is about as far as I let it go and usually around 7K


My observation is that some vehicles need the oil changing much more frequently that others. If the engine oil is shared with a primary chain or gearbox then it should be changed frequently. The ancient Triumph shares oil with the primary and its fucked in 1000K.

[roogazza]

Modern quality oils don't break down like olden day oils. (as much as .)
We change them cos they get dirty. :yes: :shifty:

[Bonez]

Modern quality oils don't break down like olden day oils. (as much as .)
We change them cos they get dirty. :yes: :shifty:Can you even get castor oil these days? That'd be a Anoraks wet dream.

[F5 Dave]

Castrol R40, yes you can. Favoured for its film strength under extreme conditions.

[Bonez]

Castrol R40, yes you can. Favoured for its film strength under extreme conditions.Fucken hell it has extra "oilyness" as well. Does the mean it's oilier than mineral and synthetic oils?

[Blackbird]

As others have said, synthetics or semi-synthetics have a better useful life than mineral based oils. Also, performance is a much slower decline than the more abrupt decline of mineral oils. Our large company vehicle fleet used Mobil multigrade oil and when Mobil 1 first came out, we did some comparison tests. From memory, the amount of wear debris in the oil for Mobil 1 was about half that for multigrade (EMPA spectroscopy). Trouble was, Mobil 1 was massively more expensive at that stage and it was more economic to continue to use multigrade with more regular changes.

I experienced the downside of synthetics first hand. I was able to buy Mobil 1 at a substantial discount through the company and stuck it in my wife's first MX5. Her car had done about 80,000k at the time and the excellent scavenging properties of the synthetic oil caused the engine seals to weep once the carbon and other deposits were flushed off.

I guess that you can boil it down quite simply. Tyres and oil are critical on a bike, albeit for different reasons. Makes sense not to skimp on either.

[pete376403]

Castrol R40, yes you can. Favoured for its film strength under extreme conditions.

I used to run Shell Super Heavy in my speedway bikes. It was castor, not quite as good as r40 but about half the price. would get a full season out of a crankshaft so it did the job. Still had the same beautiful aroma when burned with methanol and still made the same gummy mess if left to oxidise.

Later I switched to running Rimula X50 and the crankshaft lasted just the same, much cleaner

[husaberg]

Castrol R40, yes you can. Favoured for its film strength under extreme conditions.

A747 also had in some castor. All the 2t GP bikes used to run castor despite what the sponsors stickers said pretty sure it was Castrol as well in most cases
i understand the beans shell makes a pretty useful poison as well, Also according to google the oil is a decent birth control...... WTF

[Grumph]

As others have said, synthetics or semi-synthetics have a better useful life than mineral based oils. Also, performance is a much slower decline than the more abrupt decline of mineral oils. Our large company vehicle fleet used Mobil multigrade oil and when Mobil 1 first came out, we did some comparison tests. From memory, the amount of wear debris in the oil for Mobil 1 was about half that for multigrade (EMPA spectroscopy). Trouble was, Mobil 1 was massively more expensive at that stage and it was more economic to continue to use multigrade with more regular changes.

I experienced the downside of synthetics first hand. I was able to buy Mobil 1 at a substantial discount through the company and stuck it in my wife's first MX5. Her car had done about 80,000k at the time and the excellent scavenging properties of the synthetic oil caused the engine seals to weep once the carbon and other deposits were flushed off.

I guess that you can boil it down quite simply. Tyres and oil are critical on a bike, albeit for different reasons. Makes sense not to skimp on either.

Late 80's a customer got a Mobil 1 sponsorship - basically some decals and about 60L of oil. He moaned to me about how fast he was using it. On enquiry, it turned out he was using it in his van as well as the race bike. I basically smacked him upside the head and said " by all means use it in the van - after it's been through the race bike, dickhead "

[husaberg]

Late 80's a customer got a Mobil 1 sponsorship - basically some decals and about 60L of oil. He moaned to me about how fast he was using it. On enquiry, it turned out he was using it in his van as well as the race bike. I basically smacked him upside the head and said " by all means use it in the van - after it's been through the race bike, dickhead "

Britten bike waas sponsored by Mobil 1 and according to a blurb the ever the salesman wrote it apparently worked "so good" they had considerable trouble bedding in the rings, I wondered if the likely cause was that cause it had forged pistons with decent clearances with liners they couldn't stop it smoking on startup. So that was the given excuse.
I wonder how thr F1 guys stop that? i guess with the coated liners the clearances are far smaller than the cast linered Britten.
I remember that the late UK supermono champion David Morris mentioning in a mag he used to have to use cast pistons so his high brow sponsors didn't get the wrong idea about professionalism of the BMW Bike as it woyuld smoke on start up in the pits.
Personally i used Mobil 1 for years for gearbox oil as it was the cheapest synthetic , everyone used to go on about how it would make the clutch slip,yeah right, not sure it was better than Castrol Grand Prix.

[Grumph]

The Britten ring problem wasn't the oil. I'd put John onto using a real reed valve on the cases - actually the common 4 petal RD/DT assembly. It worked, the oil stayed in the motor. Later staff convinced him to use a big PCV valve. It was not as sensitive to the oddball case pressure variations of a 60deg V twin.
I was told that the PCV equipped customer bikes were hell on the dyno trying to bed the rings.
The "works" bikes all have the reed block in a CF pyramid on top of the cases.

[husaberg]

The Britten ring problem wasn't the oil. I'd put John onto using a real reed valve on the cases - actually the common 4 petal RD/DT assembly. It worked, the oil stayed in the motor. Later staff convinced him to use a big PCV valve. It was not as sensitive to the oddball case pressure variations of a 60deg V twin.
I was told that the PCV equipped customer bikes were hell on the dyno trying to bed the rings.
The "works" bikes all have the reed block in a CF pyramid on top of the cases.

Pretty sure i have seen the PCV but never the Reed.
Havin a closer look it looks like there was at least three versions
i cant find a decend pic
344542344544
the one that has the best pics is the one from Performance bikes with the engine in a million pieces
but the version i remember is the one here the similar to the singles one.
344543
344538344540344541

third pic in this line looks like they rested an intake trumpet on it. :)

[actungbaby]

Motorcycles in main oil is shared with the gearbox .so gears over time break down oil .it's up to each person to decide .what I read synthetic oil is better for anti share .from memory.
Air cooked engines be more demanding .also heat range is important. Esp lower range keep right viscosity.when your got two bearing surfaces which suspended on thin oil film .it's good to have best possible
Condition oil.of course if it's old banger or lawn mower [emoji3]

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[actungbaby]

Yeah I used gtx too forgot it was car oil .

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[actungbaby]

i ran my mitsi lancer for 90000kms without changing the oil, just topping it up . it died of a broken windscreen and rust failing warrant stuffWell over time your addjng new.i guess . mitis bits see [emoji3]

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[actungbaby]

I hear Ducati forums are a bit like Amiga forums....Ohh you dirty begger Amiga my fav I still got them .porn yeah boy.know Honda built Amiga computer hybrd.

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[actungbaby]

Castrol R40, yes you can. Favoured for its film strength under extreme conditions.Is that what use at speedway that's sweet smell ..

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[Bonez]

Ohh you dirty begger Amiga my fav I still got them .porn yeah boy.know Honda built Amiga computer hybrd.

Sent from my CPH1941 using TapatalkLol I have couple of Amigas as well.

[Bonez]

Yeah I used gtx too forgot it was car oil .

Sent from my CPH1941 using TapatalkDid the job just fine. As I mentioned earlier I have never used specific motorcycle on any bike
I've ridden since 1978. As long as it matches the manufactures recomended spec and oil/filter changes are done on a regular basic it's fine.

[actungbaby]

I had bin my 2000s when we moved and a broken blizzard 060 card.
Still have my org 1200 I brought new plus 3 others.want a vampire card one day.i had blizzard ppc card new too sold it to itailian doctor.cost me 2 k back in 90.s people on here think u was mad.funny thing .my mate used to be pc geek and u used to think cool.but the nah I rather spend on my a motorbike.he had amstrad cpc 128
Used to take 20 mins load a game from tape like cassette tape.
Then he got disk drive .he aught 7 bits to a byte except a pizza lol

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[actungbaby]

I once had my bbs midnight blue bbs on 24 hour seven two phone lines.
And played quake on ppc card while a guy was on bullentin board.was slowed down for sure but was useable .Supra 28. K modem and used surf squirell for buffed serial Port made huge difference .brought cnet bbs software from states.guy am co face book page on still runs his bbs .online rof .

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[actungbaby]

This kiwibiker uses same software as Amiga .org does I forget the name.

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[Blueser]

Take my mother in law.

Please.

Now's good.

OK with that out of the way, she bought a Honda car in the late 80's early 90's. I think it was called Aerodeck? It was a wagon. It came with three year factory servicing. It turns out that that was the servicing it got. She drove it for 260000 k's. without changing the oil after the dealer stopped calling her for her "free" services. Actually the thing that let go was the cambelt (or cam drive anyway) but it completely lunched the motor. valves impacted the pistons and it bent a rod and stuff.

The weird thing is she was "disappointed" in it and we were all like "how the fuck did it keep going for five years"?

She's currently doing the same thing to a Mitsubishi.....

What school did your mother-in-law finish?

[Scubbo]

its impressive how long modern cheap car engines run without any care ;-P thankyou JAPS!

[HenryDorsetCase]

Here's a pic that came up in my instagram feed this morning. Good an example as any I can think of why you should change your oil....

[HenryDorsetCase]

What school did your mother-in-law finish?


old school, clearly....

[Bonez]

Here's a pic that came up in my instagram feed this morning. Good an example as any I can think of why you should change your oil....Cams look fine.:wacko: