Nylock Nut Myth.

[Bonez]

Popped in to Steel Masters today to get a couple of smaller bolts for the XF650s risers. The young chap was adiment that my nylocks needed to be replaced aka a one use item. I politely told him as long as you can not screw used nylocks up by hand they are perfectly fine for reuse. I also showed him that the nylock I had wouldn't twist on by hand past the nylon. Is this an industry wide myth becuase I've heard this a number of times over the last year or so. I was in the RNZAF engineering feild for 23years and never heard such bollocks.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Popped in to Steel Masters today to get a couple of smaller bolts for the XF650s risers. The young chap was adimit that my nylocks needed to be replace aka a one use item. I politely told him as long as you can not screw used nylocks up by hand they are perfectly fine for reuse. I also showed him that the nylock I had wouldn't twist on by hand past the nylon. Is this an industry wide myth becuase I've heard this a number of times over the last year or so. I was in the RNZAF engineering feild for 23years and never heard such bollocks.

I've found nylock nuts to be perfectly acceptable for use on conrods.

[Bonez]

I've found nylock nuts to be perfectly acceptable for use on conrods.That's one place I would use nylocks. But if it works for that's cool.

[sidecar bob]

I've found nylock nuts to be perfectly acceptable for use on conrods.
On an air compressor only i hope?

[Kickaha]

Composition on the nylon component has changed over the years, they originally recommended them as single use only, depending on what it is for I'll also use coneloc or K-nut/jet-nut

[Bonez]

Composition on the nylon component has changed over the years, they originally recommended them as single use only, depending on what it is for.Must have been over 40 years ago. At basic engineering it was one of the first things you were taught in the fasteners class.

[HenryDorsetCase]

On an air compressor only i hope?

and VFR400s

[pete376403]

I would use, or not reuse *any* fastener based on the criticality (is that a word) of potential failure of said fastener, eg probably not reuse con-rod bolts, absolutely reuse screws that hold the fairing on

[Bonez]

Meh. The CB550 has over 90,000kms up on original conrod bolts since I rebuilt it. They were still in tolerance.

[Grumph]

and VFR400s

Oh please, fuck no. Not an appropriate use at all. Between the heat and the centrifugal loadings, sooner or later you'll have the nylon insert on the oil pump pickup screen. Conelocs with the metal insert would at least be a safer choice there.

You can get away with reuse of rod bolts and nuts in a lot of older motors - eg CB550 - as they are not torqued to yeild point when installed. But crack testing as a minimum would be advised if you have to reuse.
Modern stuff where both the head bolts and rod bolts are toqued to yeild I would always use new. With engines becoming an ever greater source of frame stiffness, head bolts are becoming more critical as the loads fed through them get bigger.

No-one is as picky today as a guy I used to know. Specialist in Rolls Royce car engines. They have the nuts on rod bolts retained by cotter pins. He would hand lap the nuts so as to get the correct torque at the point where the cotter pin holes lined up....

[Bonez]

Oh please, fuck no. Not an appropriate use at all. Between the heat and the centrifugal loadings, sooner or later you'll have the nylon insert on the oil pump pickup screen. Conelocs with the metal insert would at least be a safer choice there.

You can get away with reuse of rod bolts and nuts in a lot of older motors - eg CB550 - as they are not torqued to yeild point when installed. But crack testing as a minimum would be advised if you have to reuse.
Modern stuff where both the head bolts and rod bolts are toqued to yeild I would always use new. With engines becoming an ever greater source of frame stiffness, head bolts are becoming more critical as the loads fed through them get bigger..Using the engine as a stressed member of the frame is not as new thing. Honda did it on ther CX and CBX1000 series. Also specilised frame builders like Harris and the like on modified production engines. In fact you can't get a stiffer component than the engine.

[Grumph]

Using the engine as a stressed member of the frame is not as new thing. Honda did it on ther CX and CBX1000 series. Also specilised frame builders like Harris and the like on modified production engines. In fact you can't get a stiffer component than the engine.

In theory true...But there are some outstanding examples where that doesn't hold. XV yamaha family is a good example. To use one of your examples, have you ever talked to someone who's turbo'd a CBX ? Fine for drag racing, use it on a bendy road and you're into head gasket problems.

What I doubt you know is just how high are the loadings modern tyres feed into a frame on say, a 120mph lap of the IOM.
The current superbikes are all now made with the barrel in one with the top engine case - thus making them stiffer.

But then the critical load path is via the head bolts. Steering head loads into frame high up, engine bolted in to stiffen the frame so loads then travel to the rear engine mounts which are designed to take them.

Talk to someone about the problems encountered in the IOM by the BMW teams. It's an eye-opener.

[Bonez]

In theory true...But there are some outstanding examples where that doesn't hold. XV yamaha family is a good example. To use one of your examples, have you ever talked to someone who's turbo'd a CBX ? Fine for drag racing, use it on a bendy road and you're into head gasket problems.

What I doubt you know is just how high are the loadings modern tyres feed into a frame on say, a 120mph lap of the IOM.
The current superbikes are all now made with the barrel in one with the top engine case - thus making them stiffer.

But then the critical load path is via the head bolts. Steering head loads into frame high up, engine bolted in to stiffen the frame so loads then travel to the rear engine mounts which are designed to take them.

Talk to someone about the problems encountered in the IOM by the BMW teams. It's an eye-opener.I don't really care about bikes runing in the IOM or drag racing. The bikes are set up specially for those purposes. I care about day to day use which is more appropriate to my application aka day to day road bikes. For that purpose an engine is stiff enough.

[F5 Dave]

I replace nylocs when the wear out and they do. Exhaust pipe mounts youd get 2 or 3 reuses out of them but they would turn on with little resistance after that. Heat, vibration, oil the usual suspects.

A friend (ex reconditioner) relayed his tutors example of a car block on a jig. Piston with no rings drops through bore. Decent spanner on strategic point, minor pressure = piston gets stuck. Wasn't a fan of stressed engine frames.

Of course as Greg points out, they have thought about load paths to isolate issues. Not to say it is always appropriate. Ducati poor old Pantah cases got increasingly tortured as they grew into well beyond their original remit.

[Bonez]

Using nylocks on anything that gerates heat isn't terribly bright. Better off with spring or star washers.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I replace nylocs when the wear out and they do. Exhaust pipe mounts youd get 2 or 3 reuses out of them but they would turn on with little resistance after that. Heat, vibration, oil the usual suspects.

A friend (ex reconditioner) relayed his tutors example of a car block on a jig. Piston with no rings drops through bore. Decent spanner on strategic point, minor pressure = piston gets stuck. Wasn't a fan of stressed engine frames.

Of course as Greg points out, they have thought about load paths to isolate issues. Not to say it is always appropriate. Ducati poor old Pantah cases got increasingly tortured as they grew into well beyond their original remit.

getting back to the pinnacle of modern motorcyle and engine design that is the VFR400 the cases are designed for 60hp which was the most that an engine in that class was allowed to produce. When they went racing (and remember it was hyper competitive at the time) they were getting 75hp out of them and the cases were OK. When that mad Yank started boring and stroking them to nearly 500cc and looking for 100* hp, not so much.

I should just clarify that I wasnt serious about using nylocks on crank bolts. Clearly the best thing would be bacon grease for thread lube and a few wraps of duct tape to hold it on. Maybe a zip tie for extra peace of mind.

[GazzaH]

Bacon grease? Bloody luxury. Lick it!

[F5 Dave]

Using nylocks on anything that gerates heat isn't terribly bright. Better off with spring or star washers.
2 stroke pipes don't get that hot. Race bikes get rebuilt in the pits when needs must. Fiddly spring washers under the bike aren't terribly bright.

[pete-blen]

Composition on the nylon component has changed over the years, they originally recommended them as single use only, depending on what it is for I'll also use coneloc or K-nut/jet-nut


Cone locks on exhaust studs & pipe joins..


..

[Bonez]

Cone locks on exhaust studs & pipe joins..


..Makes more sence. Better than having a bucket of nylocks in the pits, Of course I was referring to your normal road bike which doesn't get stripped down after every run. Of course the exeption to that is a XS650.....

[Dak S83]

On an air compressor only i hope?

Even then I'd be expecting mr conrod to create inbuilt crankcase ventilation.

[F5 Dave]

I bought a trail bike engine once, when I opened it up, you know because he'd told me it was rebuilt by large franchise shop and I guess I'm an untrusting bastard, I found bearings that weren't C3, but they did have dust seals in lieu of crank seals. Also internal type circlips on the piston. Made them easier to remove to throw away. Glad it was cheap but I'd bet engines have been put together with all sorts of inappropriate fasteners.

[Grumph]

I bought a trail bike engine once, when I opened it up, you know because he'd told me it was rebuilt by large franchise shop and I guess I'm an untrusting bastard, I found bearings that weren't C3, but they did have dust seals in lieu of crank seals. Also internal type circlips on the piston. Made them easier to remove to throw away. Glad it was cheap but I'd bet engines have been put together with all sorts of inappropriate fasteners.

Surprisingly, I think it's actually better these days in terms of inappropriate fasteners.

You're too young, Dave. I started off when Brit bikes were daily transport and all you could get. The mixture of Cycle, Whitworth, BSF, B.A. and SAE threads which could be found on any common Brit bike led to some epic misuse of whatever nuts and bolts came to hand.

Then you get the anoraks trying to make sense of a bike today....I'll name drop, LOL. We showed Ivan Rhodes a pic of the old man after another NZ Beach championship in the 20's on a Big-port AJS. Ex works bike too.
He was adamant the pic couldn't be the stated date because the timing cover screws had the wrong heads - and they didn't come in till later....

It had to be pointed out to him that as soon as a bike landed in NZ, due to the shortage of parts, whatever was to hand got used on them to keep them running. The screws in question were probably HD as the shop which owned the bike was also a Harley agent...

[F5 Dave]

Say what you will about the French, I know I will, but Michelin tyres and the SI system were indeed worthwhile contributions to humanity as a whole. That fucked up system of gauges, threads per inch and fractions with different denominators was just dumb.

[Kickaha]

but Michelin tyres .
They built some crap millimetric tyres that were absurdly expensive, rim measurements are still in inches and always will be

[F5 Dave]

Well, to be fair that was at the behest of Citron or some queer local car maker.

But let's not forget the good work during the GP years

[SaferRides]

Say what you will about the French, I know I will, but Michelin tyres and the SI system were indeed worthwhile contributions to humanity as a whole. That fucked up system of gauges, threads per inch and fractions with different denominators was just dumb.Yes, it's easy to forget. I work on US instrumentation so still carry AF tools in my work vehicle. But Yank stuff is simple compared to the fittings you could find on British vehicles.

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Berries]

I'll always prefer being six foot tall than 1.81m or whatever it is.

[F5 Dave]

I prefer having a much larger number cm dick than the 3 or whatever inches. . . Oops. Overshare.

[pritch]

I'm jealous of kids today, 1000mm = 1 metre. 1000m = 1kilometre.

Compared to: 12in = 1 foot, three feet = 1 yard, 22yds = 1 chain, 220 yds =1 furlong, 440yds = 1/4 mile, 880yds = 1/2 mile, 1760 yds = 1 mile, 5280ft = 1 mile.

Then there was money...

They dunno how lucky they are.

[Bonez]

I'm jealous of kids today, 1000mm = 1 metre. 1000m = 1kilometre.

Compared to: 12in = 1 foot, three feet = 1 yard, 22yds = 1 chain, 220 yds =1 furlong, 440yds = 1/4 mile, 880yds = 1/2 mile, 1760 yds = 1 mile, 5280ft = 1 mile.

Then there was money...

They dunno how lucky they are.But you were around when Moses was born.

The other day my wife told me not to give her measurements in metres, cm or mm but , feet. yard, inches and parts thereof. She is the president of the local woodworkers guild. Not for long though by the sounds of it because getting things done is like hearding cats.

[Big Dog]

https://youtu.be/Pk7yqlTMvp8

[Big Dog]

Another one from the same campaign that an aircraft guy might appreciate.
https://youtu.be/L2zqTYgcpfg

[Grumph]

I'm jealous of kids today, 1000mm = 1 metre. 1000m = 1kilometre.

Compared to: 12in = 1 foot, three feet = 1 yard, 22yds = 1 chain, 220 yds =1 furlong, 440yds = 1/4 mile, 880yds = 1/2 mile, 1760 yds = 1 mile, 5280ft = 1 mile.

Then there was money...

They dunno how lucky they are.

I was actually working as a cashier at the chamgeover. Suddenly the job got a lot easier....I was used to working to 3 decimal places in the workshop at home so only having to work to two places at work was piss-easy.

The tools in the box needed to handle working on bikes got a bit easier after Mike Sinclair got involved. First visit to Yamaha with Kenny, he handed the chief designer one of those 3 legged socket things - 8, 10 and 12mm sockets. Said to the guy that he wanted to be able to perform all the usual raceday jobs on the bikes with this...major rationalisation of fastener sizes on Yamahas, followed by other brands too.

[jellywrestler]

But you were around when Moses was born.

The other day my wife told me not to give her measurements in metres, cm or mm but , feet. yard, inches and parts thereof. She is the president of the local woodworkers guild.

they've got women in charge of things in the manawatu now?

[Bonez]

they've got women in charge of things in the manawatu now?Never noticed. They're all cunts.

Nobody wanted to take up the position so Connie took it on. As I said it's like herding cats. Too much talking and no action. A bit like KB really.