SMIDSY Avoidance thingy in Auckland

[rastuscat]

Just heard about this at work.

https://youtu.be/XyHQiFZDZNs


https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/dominion-road-motorcycle-safety-trial/


Anything that helps to avoid SMIDSYs is a good idea.

[Old Steve]

That's what got me, I was in the T3 lane going down Onewa Rd and a taxi turned right across in front of me, of course he stopped once he saw me. I got around the front of him but the camber of the side road unweighted my bike and I low sided.

Don't know if motorists would see a sign on the other side of the road, my taxi driver missed a 100 kg bike rider wearing a fluoro hiviz riding a mid-size cruiser, he told the Police that he'd looked and there was no bus coming. Never thought I'd hear those words myself, "Sorry mate I didn't see you."" In fact I didn't hear them, he left the scene of the accident.

[rastuscat]

That's what got me, I was in the T3 lane going down Onewa Rd and a taxi turned right across in front of me, of course he stopped once he saw me. I got around the front of him but the camber of the side road unweighted my bike and I low sided.

Don't know if motorists would see a sign on the other side of the road, my taxi driver missed a 100 kg bike rider wearing a fluoro hiviz riding a mid-size cruiser, he told the Police that he'd looked and there was no bus coming. Never thought I'd hear those words myself, "Sorry mate I didn't see you."" In fact I didn't hear them, he left the scene of the accident.

Those crashes are coded in CAS as LB movement crashes. The most common crash type.

They happen 2 - 3 times each week in Christchurch. Either a cyclist or motorcyclist get nailed coming up the left of a line of vehicles by a vehicle turning right through the line.

Youd think if was so common we would be able to prevent it. But no, we keep repeating the problem.

Which is why I welcome any attempt to solve the issue.

[release_the_bees]

That's what got me, I was in the T3 lane going down Onewa Rd and a taxi turned right across in front of me, of course he stopped once he saw me. I got around the front of him but the camber of the side road unweighted my bike and I low sided.

Don't know if motorists would see a sign on the other side of the road, my taxi driver missed a 100 kg bike rider wearing a fluoro hiviz riding a mid-size cruiser, he told the Police that he'd looked and there was no bus coming. Never thought I'd hear those words myself, "Sorry mate I didn't see you."" In fact I didn't hear them, he left the scene of the accident.I used to ride that road daily. I now head to work via Pupuke Road and Lake Road instead as there's a lot less intersections for people to turn into and a lot less buses to deal with.

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[Jeff Sichoe]

Aren't we all meant to be walking to work and school in 3 years time?

[Bonez]

Aren't we all meant to be walking to work and school in 3 years time?And using seahorses to travel to Hawaii apparently.

[Berries]

Aren't we all meant to be walking to work and school in 3 years time?
It's the only way they will come anywhere close to this - As part of Auckland's Vision Zero strategy we are wanting to bring DSIs for people on motorcycles down to zero.

[FLUB]

A good idea but I can't see it working because nobody has any idea how to correctly use an orange box. When they were introduced in the UK in my youth (mid seventies), there was an extensive awareness campaign. Posters everywhere and info during every tv ad break. This was followed by heavy police enforcement so that people were scared to abuse the system, facing very heavy fines. It just wouldn't be done like that here.

What will actually happen is that cars will be stopped on the orange box. If drivers who are turning right actually notice the flashing sign, it just means that they have to turn quickly if they are to avoid having to stop.

[rastuscat]

A good idea but I can't see it working because nobody has any idea how to correctly use an orange box. When they were introduced in the UK in my youth (mid seventies), there was an extensive awareness campaign. Posters everywhere and info during every tv ad break. This was followed by heavy police enforcement so that people were scared to abuse the system, facing very heavy fines. It just wouldn't be done like that here.

What will actually happen is that cars will be stopped on the orange box. If drivers who are turning right actually notice the flashing sign, it just means that they have to turn quickly if they are to avoid having to stop.

I agree re the enforcement. Even breath testing has dropped off, and lo and behold, road deaths arising from alcohol use has increased. Surprise.

[Berries]

Those crashes are coded in CAS as LB movement crashes. The most common crash type.
For the interest of discussion I will say that that might be the case when another vehicle is involved perhaps but there are twice as many crashes where the bike manages to fall over without having another party to blame.

If you look at all injury crashes involving motorcycles and mopeds in the last five year period you get 6,654 crashes. 706 of them are LB crashes at either intersections or driveways. Next is JA at 525 which is when a vehicle turns right out of a side road or access and fails to give way to a vehicle approaching from the right. Next is HA at 268 which is when two vehicles meet at a cross roads.

By far the most common crash type of all is a single bike on its own managing to fall over on a corner. At 1,586 crashes this is double the number of LB crashes and nearly one quarter of the total. You can break these down how you like, one third were on urban roads which is higher than I expected.

Anyway, while AT should be commended for trying to do this work I can’t see it making a huge difference. If people continue to ride the way they do then they will continue to put themselves in harms way when another party makes the inevitable mistake. The lack of protection on a bike means that serious injuries in urban areas are inevitable, whether it is a snapped tib and fib when a car just clips your leg or a broken wrist when you put your hand out to cushion your fall after losing it on a wet manhole cover.

Just played around in CAS and pulled out a load of interesting stats but I would probably bore everyone. It surprised me that slightly over half of all DSI crashes were on urban roads but then Auckland fucks all the numbers up. 37 percent of all fatal and serious injury crashes on urban roads that involved a motor bike or moped across the whole country in the last five years were in Auckland. One in five of those crashes involved a moped. Once they add a specific code for latte drinking hipster I will report back.

[FLUB]

Auckland always fucks everything up [emoji4]

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[rastuscat]

Once they add a specific code for latte drinking hipster I will report back.

I'll oil my beard and pony tail up for that one.

It's been a while since this was posted. What are your thoughts on this?

https://www.msac.org.nz/assets/Uploads/pdf/2017-Motor-cycle-safety-a-single-point-of-truth.pdf

[Berries]

What are your thoughts on this?

https://www.msac.org.nz/assets/Uploads/pdf/2017-Motor-cycle-safety-a-single-point-of-truth.pdf
In relation to what exactly? To me much of it is stating the obvious but then the document does quite well in muddying some of the information it is trying to present.

On page 5 for example it says that “More than half of fatal crashes do not involve alcohol, speed or drugs” and then in the very next column it says “Alcohol, drugs or speed impacted on almost half of fatal crashes” I don’t know why you would want to confuse the reader by writing it both ways?

All comments about speed involvement I take with a pinch of salt. I am familiar with a couple of crashes in this data. In one there is no indication that the rider was exceeding the speed limit or the advisory speed on a curve in the wet. The word “may” is in there so it has been given a speed factor and will forever be one of those crashes we all get beaten with. The other one is even more dubious. I suspect that there are more like that, as well as many where Darwin was just having a really good day.

“Higher powered bikes 600cc and over are more likely to be involved in a fatal crash.” Instead of keeping bike type and capacity separate as they have done they could have combined the two and come up with some useful information. We all know there is a difference between a 600 Hornet and an Electra Glide. If this is the one point of truth it would be nice to see some actual facts that might help guide my next purchase in the absence of ANCAP and UCSR.

Without wanting to kick a hornets next over, Harleys are a thing in NZ. I am going to generalise here and say they are used by older people on an irregular basis and they don’t handle quite as well as bikes are able to in the 21st century. So when it says large cc motorcycles dominate in open road injuries I want to know if it is a 1400cc HD, a Japanese rip off like a Boulevard, a CBR/GSXR type of thing or one of them there big beemers. I think I know the answer.

When you look at the top ten points on the last page there is nothing I can do as a rider about most of them. One to six are a case of so what, seven gets us in to the pointless ATGATT argument, eight and nine are so what again and then finally we arrive at number 10 which contains a bit of advice I can use on the way home tonight.

Unfortunately I am over 40 and will be going home on both urban and rural roads tonight. I will be riding a 750 between noon and 8pm to get there, the sun has come out and I won’t have any alcohol or drugs in my system. Now I'm worried.

It's not all negative though, I thought the café racer at the top of page 2 was kind of cool.

[Berries]

Talking of speed, this guys escapade was discussed on KB a few weeks ago but the search function is shit and I cannot find it. Anyway, he should get a discount on account of his name.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/motorcyclist-court-over-remarkably-stupid-speed

[Taxythingy]

Ideally, someone would pull data from the WOF database of km travelled vs bike type over a period, then compare that to the bike type per crash. That would start to put some bounds on the type/safety discussion.

But, I suspect that isn't the major part. Of the 2/3 of crashes that are basically our fault, most of them can be avoided by not riding like a douche. The hard part is reducing the number of not our fault crashes.

[rastuscat]

Talking of speed, this guys escapade was discussed on KB a few weeks ago but the search function is shit and I cannot find it. Anyway, he should get a discount on account of his name.

https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/central-otago/motorcyclist-court-over-remarkably-stupid-speed

Yes, you'd have thought he'd qualify for a Deity exemption.

[rastuscat]

most of them can be avoided by not riding like a douche.

Sage advice. Tough to embed in our culture though.

[Gremlin]

Like you I welcome anything that will assist. It's always something I've reminded motorcyclists of, but I'm guessing the increased numbers of cyclists have played a part in bringing a strategy forward.

The problems:
- As mentioned, people don't know how to deal with hatched areas (yes it seems obvious, but some are pretty thick)
- The increased hatching does present an increased surface hazard when quiet and wet
- I've seen cars kiss in these circumstances, so I'd judge it's people being stupid (see above) moreso than not seeing the vehicle. I mean, if you don't look or take due care, then you're not going to see. You have to clear each lane carefully.