Demerit Points Query

[justsomeguy]

Is there anyway that demerit points reduce, apart from the 2 year period??

At what rate do they expire??

Say you got a certain amount of demerit points on the 1/1/2005 and another set on 1/1/2006 will the ones from 1/1/2005 expire on 1/1/2007, or will they now get added to the total amount and then all of them will cumulatively expire on the 1/1/2008???

Just curious.

JSG

[N4CR]

If you rode fast enough you wouldn't have to worry about them.

Nah when you get them (edit + 2 years) is when they expire, they don't add up to the last date you got em.

[poorbastard]

Your demerits get taken off your total after two years from that specific conviction. So if you got some in 2005 an some in 2006 the first lot will still come off your total in 2007 but the rest remain

[loosebruce]

Dermerits are a thing of the past when you get a GSXR1000. I'm a bit worried at times on the ZXR250 though.

Tristank, fuck mate that is one loud ZXR you got there, you wear earplugs??

How much was you ticket JSG? I saw you fanging it down the NW the other day, must've been 130kph at least lol, craving up the cagers.

[justsomeguy]

If you rode fast enough you wouldn't have to worry about them.

True cos you may either be dead or under arrest. Who gives a shit bout a few lousy demerit points then huh??

Besides unless you are on an open Motorway and can do over 200 wont a commodore catch up pretty easily?? Those things aren't that slow are they??

[N4CR]

Dermerits are a thing of the past when you get a GSXR1000. I'm a bit worried at times on the ZXR250 though.

Tristank, fuck mate that is one loud ZXR you got there, you wear earplugs??


The exhaust packing was taken out a while ago then last week the tip fell out and .. yeah I have been wearing ear plugs for a while.
I'm getting a ZX9R zorst mounting plate fabricated, should be ready tomorrow and I'll be quietened but free flowing again :D


true cos you may either be dead or under arrest. Who gives a shit bout a few lousy demerit points then huh??

Nah I was meaning doing runners like some other people :psst: but you gotta have the right bike or the right roads really :(

[loosebruce]

The HP can pull over 200kph rather easily, you best bet is not to stay on the M/way, they have shit like raido's, other police cars and helicopters (still shudder everytime i see it flying out west). If you get nabbed on the M/way and are "silly" enough to gap it, get off as soon as you can, my advice.
Off the motorway you have more chance to dissapear, and plus you have shit like parks and train tracks (rough way out but it worked), footpaths and walkways, even steps, stuff a car cant follow you, not that i ever run or anything, bloody dangerous that is

[SARGE]

True cos you may either be dead or under arrest. Who gives a shit bout a few lousy demerit points then huh??

Besides unless you are on an open Motorway and can do over 200 wont a commodore catch up pretty easily?? Those things aren't that slow are they??



that black one with the wet behind the ears popo get ya on the N M'way?

[justsomeguy]

The HP can pull over 200kph rather easily, you best bet is not to stay on the M/way, they have shit like raido's, other police cars and helicopters (still shudder everytime i see it flying out west). If you get nabbed on the M/way and are "silly" enough to gap it, get off as soon as you can, my advice.

Perhaps but I think one would need your riding skills and a bike as powerful as yours. So they can pull over 200ks pretty easily huh?? Yea that sounds bout right with the kind of engines they have.


Off the motorway you have more chance to dissapear, and plus you have shit like parks and train tracks (rough way out but it worked), footpaths and walkways, even steps, stuff a car cant follow you, not that i ever run or anything, bloody dangerous that is

Really?? I thought you'd have a better chance on the Motorway with a super fast bike than in the suburbs as you are in the cops local territory which I'm pretty sure he knows like the back of his hand and you may be a stranger and not know the area.

But maybe if you know the area well enough to choose an escape route then I guess you have that one in a million chance of getting lucky.

Also if you happen to get stuck on a stretch of road with no turns offs for a few hundred meters you are basically a sitting duck.

[justsomeguy]

that black one with the wet behind the ears popo get ya on the N M'way?

No he didn't.

Just wanna know the rules bout these things.

[justsomeguy]

How much was you ticket JSG? I saw you fanging it down the NW the other day, must've been 130kph at least lol, craving up the cagers.

Me - I'm a saint. Must have been someone that looked liked me.......:psst:

[justsomeguy]

Well thanks for that, where were you last year when i "didnt see you behind me all that way officer"... on the fricken motorway, over 200 kph, I reckon I know the back streets of most parts of Auckland pretty good. (except the south)

Bruce said 200 not 300:whistle:

Jeeze only 4.9 months huh?? Not long now matey:niceone:

[Zapf]

The HP can pull over 200kph rather easily, you best bet is not to stay on the M/way, they have shit like raido's, other police cars and helicopters (still shudder everytime i see it flying out west). If you get nabbed on the M/way and are "silly" enough to gap it, get off as soon as you can, my advice.
Off the motorway you have more chance to dissapear, and plus you have shit like parks and train tracks (rough way out but it worked), footpaths and walkways, even steps, stuff a car cant follow you, not that i ever run or anything, bloody dangerous that is

most fast cars will do 220~230k easy... after that you either need lots of power or a really streamlined car. On the motorway... at that speed can you avoid the incoming cages fast enought? ermm must play some dodge the shopping trolly game at food town.

agree about getting off the stright and narrow motorway and find a gap to disappear into... might just as well bring a change of clothes and not look like a biker.

don't know about riding a gixxer down steps thou... am just thinking about the fairing and header pipes...*pink* *pink* *pink* :whistle:

[Zapf]

Perhaps but I think one would need your riding skills and a bike as powerful as yours. So they can pull over 200ks pretty easily huh?? Yea that sounds bout right with the kind of engines they have.



Really?? I thought you'd have a better chance on the Motorway with a super fast bike than in the suburbs as you are in the cops local territory which I'm pretty sure he knows like the back of his hand and you may be a stranger and not know the area.

But maybe if you know the area well enough to choose an escape route then I guess you have that one in a million chance of getting lucky.

Also if you happen to get stuck on a stretch of road with no turns offs for a few hundred meters you are basically a sitting duck.

sounds like JSG needs to learn the black art of disappearance into thin air

[Posh Tourer :P]

Best way to do a runner is to hide quickly.

If you keep on riding, eventually someone will catch you, or you will crash. Hence getting *off* the motorway..... Doing a runner is not about speed, it is about getting out of sight....

[justsomeguy]

Oh yeah since we are on the subject - what about large fines.... can they be paid off in installments???

Just curious again.....

[Zapf]

Oh yeah since we are on the subject - what about large fines.... can they be paid off in installments???

Just curious again.....

yes... if u go to court

[justsomeguy]

yes... if u go to court

So otherwise you gotta pay them off in one go??

[Zapf]

So otherwise you gotta pay them off in one go??

yep as far as I know... u can always write a letter and plede to the police...

how did u get ur ticket? any chance for a nice letter?

[marty]

demerits drop off 2 years after the LAST ticket you received, so if you got a ticket with 50 demerits on 01.01.04 (demerits expire 31.12.05), but on 30.12.05 get another ticket with 35 demerits, then you'll have 85 demerits for 2 years from 30.12.05.

it's been done to death on here - the link to the legislation is somewhere.

[bugjuice]

wow, this thread is just full of liability.. will this thread hold up in court..??
Think the tone should be changed before someone has an eye out :Pokey:

[The_Dover]

Demerit points will also be removed if you have not offended for 2 years.

Straight from the LTSA website................cunts.

[Phenoix]

To my knowledge, you get your points back when you've had 2 years of NO convictions. So as mentioned above, it u get that fine just before the 2 years, you have to put up with it all. Check the LTSA web site.
As for the lump sum payment, dempending how much it is, ie $500 or more, ring them up and arrange to pay it off, they do do it with out a court apperance, tho will sometimes charge you court fee's even tho you never turn up.

[Biff]

If you rode fast enough you wouldn't have to worry about them.

Good point. Travel fast enough and time actually goes backwards. So I guess if you ride fast enough for long enough you'd end up with no demerit points. Well, it kinda worked in a Superman filum I once saw.

[scumdog]

Got passed by a squid on a sprotsbike while on a busy freeway yesterday, saw him come up behind me, weaving and ducking through the traffic, we were all doing about 120kph and the way he passed he would have been hitting the high side of 160+, busy looking behind him while shirt-tail flapped furiously in the breeze, oh well, at least he wore a helmet, dunno why 'cos if he got it wrong on that bit of road he would be raspberry jam about 3mm thick before you could blink.

[Biff]

Got passed by a squid on a sprotsbike while on a busy freeway yesterday.

Were you in the company motormavehicule? Ticket?

[justsomeguy]

yep as far as I know... u can always write a letter and plede to the police...

how did u get ur ticket? any chance for a nice letter?

What ticket??

I'm just curious is all.......

[justsomeguy]

demerits drop off 2 years after the LAST ticket you received, so if you got a ticket with 50 demerits on 01.01.04 (demerits expire 31.12.05), but on 30.12.05 get another ticket with 35 demerits, then you'll have 85 demerits for 2 years from 30.12.05.

it's been done to death on here - the link to the legislation is somewhere.

Is it?? Couldn;t find any info... and the LTSA website is a bit all over the place.

Cheers for the answer....helps to know these things.

I guess its fair to have it that way - otherwise people will just maintain a steady level of points as long as they are under 100 demerits.

[justsomeguy]

wow, this thread is just full of liability.. will this thread hold up in court..??
Think the tone should be changed before someone has an eye out :Pokey:

Whatchu takling bout Willis??

We're just having an open conversation.

[MD]

demerits drop off 2 years after the LAST ticket you received, so if you got a ticket with 50 demerits on 01.01.04 (demerits expire 31.12.05), but on 30.12.05 get another ticket with 35 demerits, then you'll have 85 demerits for 2 years from 30.12.05.

it's been done to death on here - the link to the legislation is somewhere.
WHAT??? Marty I've never heard that before. Hope like hell you are wrong.
I got a warning notice in Nov. 04 when I got a second lot of demerits. The letter said "demerit points remain active for a period of 2 years from the offence date unless
* you are suspended due to demerit points
*The Courts disqualify you for 6 mths or more"

No mention of the points being extended everytime you get more tickets. Shit that's so unfair. Demerits could last for 10 years or more using your example.
I will ring the pricks tomorrow to see what my balance is and how much for an overdraft. Fixed or floating I don't care.

[justsomeguy]

Any comments on this post???



##### wrote "I didn't know your demerits last for 2 years from time of infringement either."

Well bud, those points last forever if you keep topping them up inside 2 years since you last got caught. And, they don't run from time of infringement either, they tally from date of PAYMENT. Sooooo, record your date of payment somewhere and play it safe for a couple of years, OR, if you're getting real close to losing it just plan a 3 month overseas holiday and blat past a cop. Unless that is unless you've racked 'em up inside a year in which case you'll need a six month holiday!

The other sneak is to delay payment if you can until the two years is up, that way you don't add the insult to the injury and you get an almost clean slate for another two years if you're careful.

Not a lot of people know that. Bugger the IRD and the cops, I say its OUR job to be fair! :finger:

[k14]

WHAT??? Marty I've never heard that before. Hope like hell you are wrong.
I got a warning notice in Nov. 04 when I got a second lot of demerits. The letter said "demerit points remain active for a period of 2 years from the offence date unless
* you are suspended due to demerit points
*The Courts disqualify you for 6 mths or more"

No mention of the points being extended everytime you get more tickets. Shit that's so unfair. Demerits could last for 10 years or more using your example.
I will ring the pricks tomorrow to see what my balance is and how much for an overdraft. Fixed or floating I don't care.
Yep he's right, I used to think that they just lasted for 2 years no matter what, but no, they last for 2 years from the last ticket.

I'm on 0, 2 years and about 4 months since my last lot :headbang:

[MD]

Yep he's right, I used to think that they just lasted for 2 years no matter what, but no, they last for 2 years from the last ticket.

I'm on 0, 2 years and about 4 months since my last lot :headbang:

Shit shit shit that must put me way back up there. Time to send a disgruntled postal worker with lots of fire power to visit LTNZ

[marty]

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/browse_vw.asp?content-set=pal_statutes&clientid=&viewtype=contents


sorry it doesn't go straight to the page - click L in the left column, then LAND TRANSPORT ACT 1998, then go to part 7. scroll down to s88/89

[notme]

True cos you may either be dead or under arrest. Who gives a shit bout a few lousy demerit points then huh??

Besides unless you are on an open Motorway and can do over 200 wont a commodore catch up pretty easily?? Those things aren't that slow are they??


Weeeeeel.... here at work the "other" work vehicles have among them a supercharged commie sedan and an SS ute....they have both taken on the CBR and lost....by LOTS :whistle:

Then again the drivers don't get wet when it rains. :nya:

[What?]

Were you in the company motormavehicule? Ticket?
I think the US of A is a bit out of Scumdog's jurisdiction...

[marty]

unless they've built a freeway (that word's a clue) down otago ways....

[MD]

Marty thanks for the link it cost me a nights sleep!. The Act s91 Reads something like "íf 2 or more offences are entered over a 2 yr period the entry is cancelled 2 yrs from the most recent entry" The words 'most recent' certainly sounded like what you said. I rung the LT registry to check my understanding and big relief they said its all about getting 100 or more points within any 2 yr period and checking my balance proved my understanding that after 2 yrs they drop off even though you may be a regular charitable type collector (ME!) of points ever 12 or 18 odd months. Using my example I won 35 points 12 mths ago and 20 points 28 months ago. By the logic of the piss poor worded Act the 12 mth old points would have kept the 28 mth points active but they are gone- sigh of relief.
In the end the bloody system works, I've got to spend all my time watching the speedo now and to hell with everything else around me. Suggest you all stay 100m away from me I'm going to be a road safety hazzard for 2 more years. Well done Lawmakers we award thousands of dollars to people like Gillies who probably laughs every day how he crippled a cop with a screw driver then gets a cash bonus then released to cause more harm and weasel out of a rape charge. And I'm made to feel like a criminal for doing 115kph passing a truck in a passing lane. Where's the justice.

[k14]

Marty thanks for the link it cost me a nights sleep!. The Act s91 Reads something like "íf 2 or more offences are entered over a 2 yr period the entry is cancelled 2 yrs from the most recent entry" The words 'most recent offence' certainly sounded like what you said. I rung the LT registry to check my understanding and big relief they said its all about getting 100 or more points within any 2 yr period and checking my balance proved my understanding that after 2 yrs they drop off even though you may be a regular charitable type collector (ME!) of points ever 12 or 18 odd months. Using my example I won 35 points 12 mths ago and 20 points 28 months ago. By the logic of the piss poor worded Act the 12 mth old points would have kept the 28 mth points active but they are gone- sigh of relief.
In the end the bloody system works, I've got to spend all my time watching the speedo now and to hell with everything else around me. Suggest you all stay 100m away from me I'm going to be a road safety hazzard for 2 more years. Well done Lawmakers we award thousands of dollars to people like Gillies who probably laughs every day how he crippled a cop with a screw driver then gets a cash bonus then released to cause more harm and weasel out of a rape charge. And I'm made to feel like a criminal for doing 115kph passing a truck in a passing lane. Where's the justice.
Woah now that is interesting. Very good to know that mate, wonder why the law says otherwise. Maybe it's been changed and the website still says the old one. Thanks for clearing that one up.

[Phurrball]

s90(1) If, in any 2-year period, a total of 100 or more demerit points is recorded against a person, the Director must, by notice in writing given to that person, either—

(a)Suspend that person's current driver licence for 3 months; or

(b)If the person does not hold a current driver licence on the date of the giving of the notice, disqualify the person from holding or obtaining a driver licence for 3 months, and the suspension or disqualification starts on the date the notice is given to that person.

The law doesn't say otherwise - think of it this way: Points are recorded, they drop off 2 years from when they are recorded. If at any time there are 100 or more points simultaneously recorded against your name, licence loss for 3 months...As the points expire after 2 years, then the only way of getting 100+ is for the points to be recorded in a 2 year period.

Makes sense to me?

[Ixion]

The confusing bit is (my emphasis)


91.Cancellation and reinstatement of demerit points—




(1)When 2 years have elapsed since the commission of an offence in respect of which demerit points were recorded, the entry of the points made in respect of that offence ceases to have effect in relation to the person who committed that offence; but if demerit points were recorded in respect of 2 or more offences committed by that person, the entry ceases to have effect when 2 years have elapsed since the commission of the most recent of those offences.



Which would appear to indicate that points have no effect after two years, BUT if you have more than one offence the two years date from the latest one.

The wording is vague and contradicts S90. Note that S90 and S91 are not related. S90 clearly says that you only lose your licence if 100 points are RECORDED against you in a two year period. So in theory it would appear that you could have more than 100 points yet still keep your lience. But I don't think that's how it works in practcie.

[justsomeguy]

S90 clearly says that you only lose your licence if 100 points are RECORDED against you in a two year period. So in theory it would appear that you could have more than 100 points yet still keep your lience. But I don't think that's how it works in practcie.

The theory seems quite simple. Any points over a hundred over a two year peroid will expire, so you are safe as long as you don't collect a 100 in 24 months.

How does it work in practice then?? Can the local experts please elaborate??

[Ixion]

The theory seems quite simple. Any points over a hundred over a two year peroid will expire, so you are safe as long as you don't collect a 100 in 24 months.

How does it work in practice then?? Can the local experts please elaborate??

Well, no. Or maybe yes. Because of


but if demerit points were recorded in respect of 2 or more offences committed by that person, the entry ceases to have effect when 2 years have elapsed since the commission of the most recent of those offences.


So if you have only one offence it expires after 2 years. Simple. But If you have several, S91 APPEARS to say that you have to wait 2 years from the date of the MOST RECENT ONE. But that contradicts S90.

I'm pretty certain this is where the confusion has arisen.

I don't know which is right. The conversation that MD had with LTSA appears to indicate that they take the common sense approach (LTSA - common sense ? MUST be wrong) , that points expire after two years. But some authorities have certainly claimed the other interpretation, that you have to have a two year "points free' window to get rid of them.

Has anyone lost their licence because of "more than two year old points" ?

[k14]

Well, no. Or maybe yes. Because of

So if you have only one offence it expires after 2 years. Simple. But If you have several, S91 APPEARS to say that you have to wait 2 years from the date of the MOST RECENT ONE. But that contradicts S90.

I'm pretty certain this is where the confusion has arisen.

I don't know which is right. The conversation that MD had with LTSA appears to indicate that they take the common sense approach (LTSA - common sense ? MUST be wrong) , that points expire after two years. But some authorities have certainly claimed the other interpretation, that you have to have a two year "points free' window to get rid of them.

Has anyone lost their licence because of "more than two year old points" ?
If you read MD's post up a few he suggests otherwise. I'd take his word if he heard it from the LTSA.

[Ixion]

If you read MD's post up a few he suggests otherwise. I'd take his word if he heard it from the LTSA.

Yes. taht's what I said "The conversation that MD had with LTSA appears to indicate that they take the common sense approach (LTSA - common sense ? MUST be wrong) , that points expire after two years."

[MD]

Thanks Ixion for doing the cut and paste thingy I couldn't be bothered doing and for stating in better words than me my point- the Act contradicts itself and APPEARS to say (pinch your word here)-" if you have only one offence it expires after 2 years. Simple. But If you have several, S91 APPEARS to say that you have to wait 2 years from the date of the MOST RECENT ONE. But that contradicts S90.
like you said, you must do a full 2 years clean to wipe your points "
S90 still implies you could get 10 points every 23 months 3 odd weeks and accumulate 'active' points for 10 years and then be disqualified effectively for a minor ticket over 10 years old! Shit call that fair.
I asked the helpful lass on the 0800-822 422 No. clearly about what I had heard (Marty) about the points lasting for years if you keep getting more before 2 years passes existing one will be held against you for longer and she said 'no, no it's only what you got over the last 2 years.
But don't risk your licence on what I've said, i still don't trust them.

[SuperDave]

I'm curious as to what happens if you do a runner and escape but the cops still managed to get your plate. Are you fucked? What happens then?

[justsomeguy]

I'm curious as to what happens if you do a runner and escape but the cops still managed to get your plate. Are you fucked? What happens then?

I guess they will be waiting for you when you get home.

[marty]

Thanks Ixion for doing the cut and paste thingy I couldn't be bothered doing and for stating in better words than me my point- the Act contradicts itself and APPEARS to say (pinch your word here)-" if you have only one offence it expires after 2 years. Simple. But If you have several, S91 APPEARS to say that you have to wait 2 years from the date of the MOST RECENT ONE. But that contradicts S90.
like you said, you must do a full 2 years clean to wipe your points "
S90 still implies you could get 10 points every 23 months 3 odd weeks and accumulate 'active' points for 10 years and then be disqualified effectively for a minor ticket over 10 years old! Shit call that fair.
I asked the helpful lass on the 0800-822 422 No. clearly about what I had heard (Marty) about the points lasting for years if you keep getting more before 2 years passes existing one will be held against you for longer and she said 'no, no it's only what you got over the last 2 years.
But don't risk your licence on what I've said, i still don't trust them.

i'm only going on experience, maybe write a letter to the PIB, asking nicely for their interpretation. the person who signs the demerit warning letter would be a good start. then, you'll have it in writing.

[MD]

i'm only going on experience, maybe write a letter to the PIB, asking nicely for their interpretation. the person who signs the demerit warning letter would be a good start. then, you'll have it in writing.
I don't want to bring it to their attention if you know what I mean. If they can't make sense of the misleading Act you can bet they wont interpret it in our favour. I'm keeping my personally autographed warning letter as backup.