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Oakie
24th March 2020, 16:31
Was planning a work program for the house for the next 4 weeks yesterday when I got a message from the boss saying "We are essential ... keep coming to work". I'd sort of hoped DX posties might be essential because we deliver a lot of medical correspondence apart from a heap of other government department stuff. Kinda nice going from redundancy in 2018 to 'essential' in 2020.

Naki Rat
24th March 2020, 16:47
Our company's staff consists of just me and my partner so not problem with processing orders for our online business. Our courier and their local agent, the farm supplies store up the road are both considered essential and the store is still accepting items for the courier on a 'leave them at the door' basis so it looks like our business is good to go during the lockdown. The biggest challenge is likely to be customers with money I suspect.

Kickaha
24th March 2020, 16:56
Because we service the transport industry we are deemed essential services, I'm picking a quiet few weeks though

jellywrestler
24th March 2020, 18:23
Because we service the transport industry we are deemed essential services, I'm picking a quiet few weeks though

so does that mean the doors are open or you are on call?

skippa1
24th March 2020, 18:24
Essential.....rubbish

MD
24th March 2020, 18:27
I've been married for 35 years. Her Indoors wouldn't classify me as essential anymore.

ellipsis
24th March 2020, 19:07
Essential.....rubbish


...I have accumulated more essential rubbish in 50 years than I ever really needed...


...alluding to the, are you essential question, nah, I'm completely superfluous to anybody...it's really cool:banana: ...

FJRider
24th March 2020, 21:16
I've been married for 35 years. Her Indoors wouldn't classify me as essential anymore.

Just "Handy … sometimes" … ;)

Drew
25th March 2020, 05:24
I was surprised to find that heat pump installers aren't essential, coming in to winter and all.

I'm aware of a few tradies who intend to work anyway, fucken scumbags.

sidecar bob
25th March 2020, 07:49
Turns out tinkering with motorbikes & cars isint essential either.:no: well, not away from home anyway.
How about The Warehouse having a crack at it because they sell a few grocery lines.

OddDuck
25th March 2020, 08:05
Yeah I'm a bit surprised at just how loose the definition of essential has become. The Warehouse? Mitre 10? Really? Anyway, I'm not on the essential list. A shame really, work being cleaned out of everyone who could work from home would mean a breather from organisers of meetings and pushers of emails, I could have actually got some things done.

TheDemonLord
25th March 2020, 08:51
I'm essential
:cool:

jellywrestler
25th March 2020, 09:13
I was surprised to find that heat pump installers aren't essential, coming in to winter and all.

I'm aware of a few tradies who intend to work anyway, fucken scumbags.

really, aren't heatpumps a recent thing? electric heaters and jerseys have been around for a while now.

jellywrestler
25th March 2020, 09:15
Turns out tinkering with motorbikes & cars isint essential either.:no: well, not away from home anyway.
How about The Warehouse having a crack at it because they sell a few grocery lines.

so where your stuff is stored set up a stretcher and when they ask that's where you're dossing for a month

jellywrestler
25th March 2020, 10:33
I was surprised to find that heat pump installers aren't essential, coming in to winter and all.

I'm aware of a few tradies who intend to work anyway, fucken scumbags.

direct contact is exactly what they are trying to avoid and this sort of work is exactly how it's going to spread. as an electrician i'm allowed to repair broken fittings that are dangerous, and hot water that is a sanitary risk, that's all, and that's all i'm available for. i see people posting jobs on line and people taking them on, they're cunts.

anyone wanting a heatpump now has survived till now without one, maybe there's a few who've had some fuck out, find a jersey, tough it out.
if this is not capped we'll have another month, then another and so on, it'll be a viscious circle simply

Swoop
25th March 2020, 10:47
The entire list of "essential" is so poorly thought up and worded, it has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Not surprising though.


The amount of businesses that will be forced under due to financial reasons, is going to be shocking.

Katman
25th March 2020, 11:14
The entire list of "essential" is so poorly thought up and worded, it has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Not surprising though.

Trust you to politicize the issue.

swarfie
25th March 2020, 11:26
Haha, with all the shit going down about producing plastic waste apparently now the crowd I work for (I'm a toolmaker making plastic moulds) are deemed to be essential because we make plastic meat trays and milk bottles....by the bloody millions:facepalm::brick::shutup:
My boss just handed me a letter to show plod if I get pulled up on my way to work that says I'm useful (essential). ;)

sidecar bob
25th March 2020, 11:50
Trust you to politicize the issue.

I think the politicians did that first:facepalm:

MaxPenguin
25th March 2020, 12:36
The entire list of "essential" is so poorly thought up and worded, it has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Not surprising though.


The amount of businesses that will be forced under due to financial reasons, is going to be shocking.

The fist paragraph has nothing to do with second.

Katman
25th March 2020, 13:44
I think the politicians did that first:facepalm:

Actually the government's handling of it has largely been supported by politicians from all parties.

It's the likes of Swoop who choose to turn it into a "but Liarbour…." issue.

He's as bad as that "but National...." cock.

MarkH
25th March 2020, 15:10
Because I deliver a food product, I'm essential. But a bunch of Cafes, bars & restaurants are not, so there are only half as many customers to deliver to. So I have to work, but the days are pretty short.

FJRider
25th March 2020, 16:12
Because I deliver a food product, I'm essential.

I work for a firm that supplies a food product. Sandford.

I work on Stewart Island on a Salmon farm. I clean the 38 nets, that may hold (on average) 70,000 fish.

Seven days on and seven days off (paid for both).

On any Monday … I'm either going down there … or going home.

The Company pays for food we need at Pack and slave Invercargill. We do the trolley thing and head south.

MaxPenguin
25th March 2020, 17:34
Actually the government's handling of it has largely been supported by politicians from all parties.

It's the likes of Swoop who choose to turn it into a "but Liarbour…." issue.

He's as bad as that "but National...." cock.

How many years after this is over do you think every decision made will be politicized?

Kickaha
25th March 2020, 17:34
so does that mean the doors are open or you are on call?

Originally we were to remain open, it has now changed to being on call



My boss just handed me a letter to show plod if I get pulled up on my way to work that says I'm useful

You've worked for that guy for how long? and he still obviously doesn't know you very well

actungbaby
25th March 2020, 17:37
Was planning a work program for the house for the next 4 weeks yesterday when I got a message from the boss saying "We are essential ... keep coming to work". I'd sort of hoped DX posties might be essential because we deliver a lot of medical correspondence apart from a heap of other government department stuff. Kinda nice going from redundancy in 2018 to 'essential' in 2020.You and me but I had hours cut to min 20 hrs .that we have to be paid.


Sent from my CPH1941 using Tapatalk

jim.cox
25th March 2020, 18:51
Seems that we Surveyors are not essential.

So after three frantic days working flat out to get survey data ready to be worked on while locked down, I'm now stuck at home.

Seeing what happened in Chch's earthquakes, I'm expecting a LARGE police and army presence on the streets as of mid-night.

They are just going to love their road blocks, pulling vehicles over and generally asserting their authority.

I'm thinking to give them a week or so to get bored before I head out for any riding.

Oakie, we need you to keep us posted as to the conditions out there

HenryDorsetCase
25th March 2020, 18:55
I am not essential :(

Though if any of you pricks need your Wills made urgently or whatever (or EPOA's apparently) then apparently that is essential.

Go figure.

We have had a fascinating few days with little guidance from anyone about "what the fuck to do with that property settlement next week".

Mostly, people are sensible. Mostly.

I am thinking of turning my phone off for four weeks and going "Wha???" when I turn it on again.

Oakie
25th March 2020, 19:04
Oakie, we need you to keep us posted as to the conditions out there

I got a letter from the boss today to show anyone who stops me that I'm legit. I'll be sure to let you know of anything interesting that happens out on the mean streets. Actually the streets will be bloody quiet. It'll be great!

BMWST?
25th March 2020, 20:26
I am not essential :(

Though if any of you pricks need your Wills made urgently or whatever (or EPOA's apparently) then apparently that is essential.

Go figure.

We have had a fascinating few days with little guidance from anyone about "what the fuck to do with that property settlement next week".

Mostly, people are sensible. Mostly.

I am thinking of turning my phone off for four weeks and going "Wha???" when I turn it on again.

a lady at work is stucj right in the middle of this They have bought land,settlement is in about two weeks,the sellers wont budge.Their house is sold but settlemt is in about two weeks..How will they (or the other people) move?

jasonu
26th March 2020, 02:27
Actually the government's handling of it has largely been supported by politicians from all parties.

It's the likes of Swoop who choose to turn it into a "but Liarbour…." issue.

He's as bad as that "but National...." cock.

Now you mention National I don't recall hearing much if anything from Simon Brudges in the last couple of weeks.

Bonez
26th March 2020, 06:30
Not essential so 24/7 on KB. Well apart from when I'm sleeping, eating, on the loo, out on the m/c, walking, having a shower, vacuuming, on the phone to ralitives, sleeping, watching murder cases on telly, taking out the rubbish, doing the dishes, working on the m/cs, reading a magizine, talking to neighbors over the fence, trimming branches off trees in the yard, painting, demolistion stuff, picking up medication and sleeping.......(Dots added for effect):msn-wink:

mashman
26th March 2020, 07:25
The entire list of "essential" is so poorly thought up and worded, it has more holes in it than swiss cheese.
Not surprising though.

Dats coz everything that's important is generally connected to something, or a part of something, that looks unimportant, but is actually essential for the essential people to do their jobs.



The amount of businesses that will be forced under due to financial reasons, is going to be shocking.

:killingme...... It's ok, once the cold has gone it'll all go back to normal and we can keep on suiciding ourselves using production again. The irony is astonishing. Billions starving, do nothing. Catching a cold, blank cheques all round. Millions homeless, do nothing. Catching a cold, leave offices spaces sitting empty for 4 weeks before sending people back to non-essential jobs. And so on... That happens, and has been happening for quite some time now, for financial reasons too. Do you maybe think the financial system is a bit of a problem :killingme

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 07:47
:killingme...... It's ok, once the cold has gone it'll all go back to normal and we can keep on suiciding ourselves using production again. The irony is astonishing. Billions starving, do nothing. Catching a cold, blank cheques all round. Millions homeless, do nothing. Catching a cold, leave offices spaces sitting empty for 4 weeks before sending people back to non-essential jobs. And so on... That happens, and has been happening for quite some time now, for financial reasons too. Do you maybe think the financial system is a bit of a problem :killingme

Are you working for free, donating all of your money to those who are worse off than you yet?
Have you stopped enjoying things like Electricity, the internet, Motorised transport etc. that all damage the planet that you care *oh* so much about yet?

No?

Keep up the good (hypocritical) work.

Katman
26th March 2020, 08:25
Keep up the good (hypocritical) work.

That's always such a weak argument.

Living within the world we've created does not preclude one from setting about trying to improve it.

HenryDorsetCase
26th March 2020, 09:02
a lady at work is stucj right in the middle of this They have bought land,settlement is in about two weeks,the sellers wont budge.Their house is sold but settlemt is in about two weeks..How will they (or the other people) move?

Yeah, we've got developer clients who are saying "but they can settle and they dont need to move in" (with it being a vacant section).

Fun times yesterday with the ones brought forward. One of my team waited on hold (while doing other shit) for a bank LSC for an hour. Then the call dropped out.

The knock on effect might be a worry - just as an example I have a builder client with six houses on the the go and two fulltime staff and a lot of really good subbies he uses. He is a good operator: but he has three houses to start and thee houses under construction. And titles for two sites he has under contract issued yesterday. The four weeks we can all live with. If it rolls out then he is very worried about cashflows. Its a wait and see thing at this point.

mashman
26th March 2020, 09:05
That's always such a weak argument.

Living within the world we've created does not preclude one from setting about trying to improve it.

It's about to go further than beyond weak......


Are you working for free

I always have. Where I have worked for money, so I did so because people paid me money. I once, actually more than once buy hey, worked in a job purely to help others get a business off the ground. Also, ever since I retired 5 years ago, because I decided I had enough to live on, I've been doing that very thing in varying capacities.



donating all of your money to those who are worse off than you yet?

Do you realise just how stupid of a question that is given that I don't earn money? Of course you don't, because you're so confident that your first 2 questions are actually statements that you show just how ridiculously informed you are to be making such judgements..... still (i can only assume)



Have you stopped enjoying things like Electricity, the internet, Motorised transport etc. that all damage the planet that you care *oh* so much about yet?

I have stopped using those services needlessly and use them for life purpose only i.e. helping people. I Am not a luddite. I realise the limits of the planet and act accordingly. You can't say the same, and so you have to make it out as if I Am not doing anything that I said I stand for. I Am doing EVERYTHING that I stand for.



Keep up the good (hypocritical) work.

You're doing more that enough of that for all of us :killingme

You are woefully ill-informed across the board Son... especially for a troll.

NOW that you have some new information that proves what you currently think 100% wrong, what are you going to do with it? I'll tell you, you're going to say that I Am not doing those things, because that's the way you've always handled being wrong on any sort of level.

Thus endeth your lessons for another few years.

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 09:49
I always have.


Where I have worked for money, so I did so because people paid me money.

So which is it?

Did you work for free or did you accept money for your Work? You seem to be confused.


Do you realise just how stupid of a question that is given that I don't earn money? Of course you don't, because you're so confident that your first 2 questions are actually statements that you show just how ridiculously informed you are to be making such judgements..... still (i can only assume)

Quite the contrary - You've confirmed you have at some point been paid, and been paid so well that you have retired - Quite the Luxury being able to retire isn't it...

A luxury most of the worlds population can't afford - So have you donated all of your money and or assets to those who clearly need them more than you? Clearly not.


I have stopped using those services needlessly and use them for life purpose only i.e. helping people. I Am not a luddite. I realise the limits of the planet and act accordingly. You can't say the same, and so you have to make it out as if I Am not doing anything that I said I stand for. I Am doing EVERYTHING that I stand for.

Needlessly - Ooooooooh now there is a rather interesting Weasel word now isn't it.

Prey Tell - who is the Arbiter of what is Needful and Needless, Why, It's the lord high-Hypocrite himself (that would be you). Regardless of whatever justification you can conjure up - you are still using resources either directly or tangentially that are in opposition to your beliefs.

You don't want to be a Luddite - you want to enjoy all the fruits, bounties, protections and comforts afforded by Capitalism - Fine by me...

Just so long as you are willing to pay the piper for all of those things, which is where you fall miraculously short.



I'll tell you, you're going to say that I Am not doing those things

You were close, I'm don't need to say anything - You've already said it for me.

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 09:55
That's always such a weak argument.

Living within the world we've created does not preclude one from setting about trying to improve it.

Trying to improve it or tearing it down completely?

These are not the same thing.

But furthermore, continuing to enjoy the perks of certain aspects of modern society whilst decrying everyone else for doing the same is where the Hypocrisy is.

If Mashie was to sell all of his assets and donate all the money he had then accumulated to those worse off than him and lived an entirely subsistence lifestyle where he could directly control all of his interactions with nature and live entirely sustainably, then I'd have a lot of respect for him and his beliefs (as I do for others who practice what they preach) - the reality is that to do so is Hard, he doesn't want to do it and so doesn't - and on that basis, I (and many others) laugh at him for the Hypocrite he is.

mashman
26th March 2020, 10:25
Lard,

So you don't know what money is then? I'll say this, my skillset was often used by people who couldn't provide me with the cow, liquid, fuel, housing etc... required to enable me to get to a position to be able to help people, so I took what they had to offer. Think of this this way, put your own oxygen mask on before you put on the mask of others, else you'll be as useless as a troll posting on a motorcycle forum.

Called it... covers the rest of your misunderstandings.

Like I said, woefully ill-informed.

R650R
26th March 2020, 10:28
Essential... moving big stuff about... have letter to show at upcoming checkpoints...

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 10:36
so I took what they had to offer.

And that is why you are a Hypocrite.

Why did you take anything at all? You have agency and the ability to refuse, so why didn't you?

Again, your entire post is you providing Justifications as to why your rules don't apply to you.

"Oh it's fine when I did it because I helped other people"

jasonu
26th March 2020, 10:42
Trying to improve it or tearing it down completely?

These are not the same thing.

But furthermore, continuing to enjoy the perks of certain aspects of modern society whilst decrying everyone else for doing the same is where the Hypocrisy is.

If Mashie was to sell all of his assets and donate all the money he had then accumulated to those worse off than him and lived an entirely subsistence lifestyle where he could directly control all of his interactions with nature and live entirely sustainably, then I'd have a lot of respect for him and his beliefs (as I do for others who practice what they preach) - the reality is that to do so is Hard, he doesn't want to do it and so doesn't - and on that basis, I (and many others) laugh at him for the Hypocrite he is.

You mean like The Good Life.

mashman
26th March 2020, 10:48
You mean like The Good Life.

What he doesn't realise, is that I don't own any assets. That went when sidecarbob swindled me out of my bike (he didn't, iza just funnin). Some peeps just have no capacity to think beyond what they've seen on TV. I do likes my Barb though... even though she's a capitalist.

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 10:57
What he doesn't realise, is that I don't own any assets.

Except the means to access the internet and post here....

Keep Lying.

mashman
26th March 2020, 11:14
If Mashie was to sell all of his assets and donate all the money he had then accumulated to those worse off than him and lived an entirely subsistence lifestyle where he could directly control all of his interactions with nature and live entirely sustainably, then I'd have a lot of respect for him and his beliefs (as I do for others who practice what they preach) - the reality is that to do so is Hard, he doesn't want to do it and so doesn't - and on that basis, I (and many others) laugh at him for the Hypocrite he is.

Ya'll can laugh all you like, because my vision of how we can live is far more advanced than exists today. So from my perspective, you're laughing at your own limitations like the circle jerking muppets your were indoctrinate to be. None of you understand what money is used for nor do you understand how an economy works outwith your limited understandding. Why the fuck would I put any credibility in anything that any of you have to say about Who I Am and Who I Am Being given your drastically limited ability to generate any logical, reasonable or even common sense criteria for making any judgement that comes anywhere near baring any resemblance to the truth? Answer: I don't. As such, I laugh at your (royal) complete stupidity... or at least I did until a few years ago, and I can see that you've (individual) still got nothing but misunderstanding underpinned by misunderstanding across the board on which you base your judgements on everything. Either way, laughing at your own projections shows you for Who You Are, because you are not describing anything like that which I Am and see. You (royal) fuckers are funnily stupid though.

mashman
26th March 2020, 11:17
Except the means to access the internet and post here....

Keep Lying.

bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa fucking idiot. The line isn't mine, I Am being allowed to use it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6raJluIg40

Berries
26th March 2020, 11:19
You mean like The Good Life.
Watched an episode last night for a reality check of were we will be in four months time.

Better plant some chickens or something.

Bonez
26th March 2020, 11:21
Ya'll can laugh all you like, because my vision of how we can live is far more advanced than exists today. So from my perspective, you're laughing at your own limitations like the circle jerking muppets your were indoctrinate to be. None of you understand what money is used for nor do you understand how an economy works outwith your limited understandding. Why the fuck would I put any credibility in anything that any of you have to say about Who I Am and Who I Am Being given your drastically limited ability to generate any logical, reasonable or even common sense criteria for making any judgement that comes anywhere near baring any resemblance to the truth? Answer: I don't. As such, I laugh at your (royal) complete stupidity... or at least I did until a few years ago, and I can see that you've (individual) still got nothing but misunderstanding underpinned by misunderstanding across the board on which you base your judgements on everything. Either way, laughing at your own projections shows you for Who You Are, because you are not describing anything like that which I Am and see. You (royal) fuckers are funnily stupid though.Is that you HAL?

mashman
26th March 2020, 11:26
Is that you HAL?

Funny how observations sound robotic eh. And no, I Am far superior to HAL as I haven't ejected the fucker from the planet yet.

Bonez
26th March 2020, 11:30
Funny how observations sound robotic eh. And no, I Am far superior to HAL as I haven't ejected the fucker from the planet yet.My appoligies.It's obvious now- The Tooth Fairy.

mashman
26th March 2020, 11:52
My appoligies.It's obvious now- The Tooth Fairy.

Now then lol......... so I had a couple of teeth removed 3 weeks ago, not long followed by another 6 relatively recently. I have 3 pairs of teeth that currently meet for eating purposes, and 2 pairs of those are incisors. I have to wonder, is this virus thing going to push back the treatment I was receiving to the point where I'll look like a frustrated piranha for longer than I had hoped. A source of endless entertainment for the kids watching me try to use teeth that are as far from molars as ya like, being used like molars, or indeed daintily cutting a sandwich into little squares that would please royalty... but OMG why 2 pairs of fucking incisors.

Damn you Covid-19.

HenryDorsetCase
26th March 2020, 13:07
None of you understand what money is used for nor do you understand how an economy works outwith your limited understandding.

Look, money is used for beers, and fun tokens. Its not difficult.

Shouldnt you be crouched in your cave somewhere, on your pile of canned goods, with the spear you made from a tree branch, and the head you made from a piece of stone? Its the end times man, don't let us get ahead of you......

mashman
26th March 2020, 13:26
Look, money is used for beers, and fun tokens. Its not difficult.

Shouldnt you be crouched in your cave somewhere, on your pile of canned goods, with the spear you made from a tree branch, and the head you made from a piece of stone? Its the end times man, don't let us get ahead of you......

You're right it isn't... yet some people eh...

I should, but I'm talking to God about the whole thing at the moment, and he hasn't mentioned that I need to do any of that stuff. I prefer you in front of me.

Kickaha
26th March 2020, 13:33
because my vision of how we can live is far more advanced than exists today. .

According to who ?

Bonez
26th March 2020, 13:45
You're right it isn't... yet some people eh...

I should, but I'm talking to God about the whole thing at the moment, .....Wow! You multi-task as well? Must be all those spirits....

Swoop
26th March 2020, 13:59
The irony is astonishing. Billions starving, do nothing. Catching a cold, blank cheques all round. Millions homeless, do nothing. Catching a cold, leave offices spaces sitting empty for 4 weeks before sending people back to non-essential jobs. And so on...
That's socialism in action for you.


Now then lol......... so I had a couple of teeth removed 3 weeks ago, not long followed by another 6 relatively recently.
Perhaps you should ask to have some wisdom teeth put in.

Swoop
26th March 2020, 14:01
The fist paragraph has nothing to do with second.

Since when did we start a literary classics class here?

Two, simple points stated. Has this place been dumbed down by the usual circle-jerk retards, that much?

Swoop
26th March 2020, 14:07
Actually the government's handling of it has largely been supported by politicians from all parties.

So, you support the delay of imposing travel restrictions on people returning to NZ, like the leader of the labour party did? Extending the risk factors?
The delays were obvious, but presumably she had to go and get agreement with the other members of her "coalition"?


I've had discussions with higher ranking medical people, who said if we can keep the number of cases to less than 50, we'd be doing exceptionally well.
So now, after the delays, we are in this situation.

Presumably this isolation will stop you from your homosexual activities of wanting to be sucked off by other men?

mashman
26th March 2020, 14:07
According to who ?

Me. Can you read ;).

Want to end homelessness, great, we currently have 4 weeks of empty space. Done. Oh no, we can't do that. Why not? Because we need to send people to jobs that destroy more than they create in order to keep the economy going.

Better is, Yes, let's do that.

Whoever is at home that can work from home should do that, stay home forever and work from home. Those in bullshit jobs should also do that, stay home and find something else to do because your community needs rebuilding (has to do when productive hours are spent doing something inherently pointless) etc... Oh and the money. Just pay them according to what they were going to be paid anyway. Individual, government and business projections will tell you exactly where the money goes and comes from. Pay everyone according to those forecasts i.e. Company A gets $1 in month one, $5 in month two, $3 in month three etc... and even though nothing has been produced, at least everyone will have the money they thought they were going to have...... as well as bagging job free money..... muwah muwah muwaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaa.

Homelessness ended without needing to build another house.

mashman
26th March 2020, 14:18
Wow! You multi-task as well? Must be all those spirits....

Fucked if I know what I'm doing most of the time.


That's socialism in action for you.

:eek5:


Perhaps you should ask to have some wisdom teeth put in.

:bleh: Maybe having them named such is a cultural misunderstanding... You have yours, Right? ;)

Bonez
26th March 2020, 14:27
Fucked if I know what I'm doing most of the time.Thought as much but wasn't going to say anything. You seem more amiable than the average Bozo on KB.

Bonez
26th March 2020, 14:43
Presumably this isolation will stop you from your homosexual activities of wanting to be sucked off by other men?Apparently ellipsis is keen and obsessed with act. You and ellipsis aren't related by any chance?

mashman
26th March 2020, 16:33
Thought as much but wasn't going to say anything. You seem more amiable than the average Bozo on KB.

It's easier that way. It's easier that way.

neels
26th March 2020, 18:41
I checked the 'essential' list from work, I'm on it. Bugger.

But mostly working from home, so plenty of time to weed the vege garden and head out for a ride on the treadly, not entirely sure what the definition of 'local' is yet.

We have had a directive from up above via the boss that we are only doing programmed maintenance and faults, anything else is considered non-essential. So lots of time to *cough* stay home and catch up on paperwork.

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 18:45
Ya'll can laugh all you like, because my vision of how we can live is far more advanced than exists today. So from my perspective, you're laughing at your own limitations like the circle jerking muppets your were indoctrinate to be. None of you understand what money is used for nor do you understand how an economy works outwith your limited understandding. Why the fuck would I put any credibility in anything that any of you have to say about Who I Am and Who I Am Being given your drastically limited ability to generate any logical, reasonable or even common sense criteria for making any judgement that comes anywhere near baring any resemblance to the truth? Answer: I don't. As such, I laugh at your (royal) complete stupidity... or at least I did until a few years ago, and I can see that you've (individual) still got nothing but misunderstanding underpinned by misunderstanding across the board on which you base your judgements on everything. Either way, laughing at your own projections shows you for Who You Are, because you are not describing anything like that which I Am and see. You (royal) fuckers are funnily stupid though.

"Oh you don't understand, it's too complex for you, but don't worry, I really understand how EVERYTHING works and I'll usher in the Utopia"

- Every Marxist/Socialist/Communist/RBEist ever.

For historical context - that's normally right before the Mass Executions and Mass Starvations start happening, which serves to prove the point that they really DON'T know how it works.

The problem is, I've got a very good idea how Money and Economy works, It's one of the reasons I'm able to consistently hit your nerves when you are feeling brave enough to venture out of your echo-chamber.

But being the generous sort of chap I am - Have you managed to resolve the problem of Consumer choice without the use of Money yet? I'll refresh your Memory:

You have a single Cow, which, when slaughtered, produces a finite number of Steaks - 10 Sirloin, 5 Eye Fillet, 30 Rib Eyes and 40 roast steaks. There are 200 people. How do you distribute the Steaks without the use of Money, without limiting individual freedom to choose, without slaughtering additional cows (leading to wastage) and without subdividing the cuts of meat.

In a Monetary system (or even any system where the transfer of goods is predicated on the transfer of items of equivalent value), price rises to the point where supply and demand are equal. If you can't afford a Steak today, you can work harder or save so that you can afford a steak at another point in time, or you can decide you don't like steak - eitherway Individual choice is maximized.

For reference - your last attempt to solve the conundrum was corruption and bribery (if memory serves - you suggested a system based on Sexual Favors) - which is interesting, since that is exactly what happened every time a variant of your repeatedly debunked idea was tried.



bwaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa fucking idiot. The line isn't mine, I Am being allowed to use it.

So, you're either a Parasite (oh look, a Marxist mooching off of everyone else, how original... not) or you are playing very loose with definitions, in order to avoid conceding that yes you do have assets (Money, Devices, housing, clothes etc.) thus making my critique valid.

And you'll forgive me from asserting that your regular presence here precludes you from being absolutely destitute, homeless and without anything to your name. So you'll have to either front up and admit that you live a comfortable life in the western world off the back of the very things you decry and despise, or lie harder.

And I'd be willing to bet on which outcome will happen.

Edit - just because I couldn't resist.


Me. Can you read ;).

Want to end homelessness, great, we currently have 4 weeks of empty space. Done. Oh no, we can't do that. Why not? Because we need to send people to jobs that destroy more than they create in order to keep the economy going.

Better is, Yes, let's do that.

Whoever is at home that can work from home should do that, stay home forever and work from home. Those in bullshit jobs should also do that, stay home and find something else to do because your community needs rebuilding (has to do when productive hours are spent doing something inherently pointless) etc... Oh and the money. Just pay them according to what they were going to be paid anyway. Individual, government and business projections will tell you exactly where the money goes and comes from. Pay everyone according to those forecasts i.e. Company A gets $1 in month one, $5 in month two, $3 in month three etc... and even though nothing has been produced, at least everyone will have the money they thought they were going to have...... as well as bagging job free money..... muwah muwah muwaaaaahahahahahahahaaaaaa.

Homelessness ended without needing to build another house.

And if I say No, I don't want to do either of that? What then?

Well, that's when you use Force to ensure I'm doing what you want me to be doing.

Remind me again - what's the word we use for being forced on pain of death to work without reward? Ah Yes - Slavery.

The problem with a Monetary supply without a relationship to things being produced is it doesn't work - Weimar republic? Hyperinflation of the Papiermark? I mean fuck - how many times can you repeat ideas that have:

1: Been tried before
2: Failed epicly
3: Be willfully ignorant of points 1 and 2 with a zealous belief that YOU are the economics genius that can make them work this time.

Again, it's not like I'm needing to use Hypothetical scenarious or the concept of Human Nature (which despite having over 200 documented instances of Human Universals, you still don't believe in) to debunk your waffle, I can simply point to the real-world application when it was tried and the predictable failures that ensued.

mashman
26th March 2020, 19:05
Lard.

Called it.

mulletman
26th March 2020, 19:24
I have a covering letter waiting for me at work which i can show to plod if asked - dunno why it wasnt at least emailed to me :wacko: we are not essential but are a MHF - Major Hazards Facility, so my workplace have a dispensation for us to go and 'monitor' stocks and its condition(s) 24/7, we are shut down tho.

ellipsis
26th March 2020, 19:24
"Oh you don't understand, it's too complex for you, but don't worry, I really understand how EVERYTHING works and I'll usher in the Utopia"

- Every Marxist/Socialist/Communist/RBEist ever.

For historical context - that's normally right before the Mass Executions and Mass Starvations start happening, which serves to prove the point that they really DON'T know how it works.

The problem is, I've got a very good idea how Money and Economy works, It's one of the reasons I'm able to consistently hit your nerves when you are feeling brave enough to venture out of your echo-chamber.

But being the generous sort of chap I am - Have you managed to resolve the problem of Consumer choice without the use of Money yet? I'll refresh your Memory:

You have a single Cow, which, when slaughtered, produces a finite number of Steaks - 10 Sirloin, 5 Eye Fillet, 30 Rib Eyes and 40 roast steaks. There are 200 people. How do you distribute the Steaks without the use of Money, without limiting individual freedom to choose, without slaughtering additional cows (leading to wastage) and without subdividing the cuts of meat.

In a Monetary system (or even any system where the transfer of goods is predicated on the transfer of items of equivalent value), price rises to the point where supply and demand are equal. If you can't afford a Steak today, you can work harder or save so that you can afford a steak at another point in time, or you can decide you don't like steak - eitherway Individual choice is maximized.

For reference - your last attempt to solve the conundrum was corruption and bribery (if memory serves - you suggested a system based on Sexual Favors) - which is interesting, since that is exactly what happened every time a variant of your repeatedly debunked idea was tried.




So, you're either a Parasite (oh look, a Marxist mooching off of everyone else, how original... not) or you are playing very loose with definitions, in order to avoid conceding that yes you do have assets (Money, Devices, housing, clothes etc.) thus making my critique valid.

And you'll forgive me from asserting that your regular presence here precludes you from being absolutely destitute, homeless and without anything to your name. So you'll have to either front up and admit that you live a comfortable life in the western world off the back of the very things you decry and despise, or lie harder.

And I'd be willing to bet on which outcome will happen.

Edit - just because I couldn't resist.



And if I say No, I don't want to do either of that? What then?

Well, that's when you use Force to ensure I'm doing what you want me to be doing.

Remind me again - what's the word we use for being forced on pain of death to work without reward? Ah Yes - Slavery.

The problem with a Monetary supply without a relationship to things being produced is it doesn't work - Weimar republic? Hyperinflation of the Papiermark? I mean fuck - how many times can you repeat ideas that have:

1: Been tried before
2: Failed epicly
3: Be willfully ignorant of points 1 and 2 with a zealous belief that YOU are the economics genius that can make them work this time.

Again, it's not like I'm needing to use Hypothetical scenarious or the concept of Human Nature (which despite having over 200 documented instances of Human Universals, you still don't believe in) to debunk your waffle, I can simply point to the real-world application when it was tried and the predictable failures that ensued.

...we bin slaves for years man...we don't own no cows and we just wanna git by, on a hard ole planit...mebbe we all could help you out someways, sometime...you sure may need it... ah aint sure that you have your intellect gathered in one place...ah aint sure you'd know you were bein fucked 'til you coughed'......then it's too late...smart asse's don't mean nuthin, cuz...

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 19:35
...we bin slaves for years man...we don't own no cows and we just wanna git by, on a hard ole planit...mebbe we all could help you out someways, sometime...you sure may need it... ah aint sure that you have your intellect gathered in one place...ah aint sure you'd know you were bein fucked 'til you coughed'......then it's too late...smart asse's don't mean nuthin, cuz...

It's a Negotiation. Always has been. Always will be.

I know that when I go to work, My Company gets more value out of my labour than they pay me in my Salary. But I also know that I'm trading some of my earning potential for things that I place value on - like Job Stability, up-skill opportunity, Holidays etc.

I'm free to negotiate on some things, I could go full contractor and earn 3-4 times what I'm currently being paid, but doing so would mean giving up some things that I like. Conversely, I could choose a lower paid position for less responsibility, a strict 40 hour work week and less stress.

So yes, we are all being 'fucked', from the poorest unfortunate to the Billionaire CEO working 100+ hours a week. So long as we have sufficient freedom to choose in what manner and how deep, that's what's important to me.

And if in that process we can find better ways to improve society and help those who are truly fucked, well even better.

TheDemonLord
26th March 2020, 19:39
Lard.

Called it.

Quite.

If you were so advanced in thought as you claim to be, an actual rebuttal would be simple and easy. Like when I say 'Price rises or falls until supply = demand".

Of course, if you were full of shit, you'd avoid trying to rebut it (since it would serve only to highlight your failures and shortcomings) and simply reply with something smug as if you'd won....

HenryDorsetCase
26th March 2020, 19:39
You're right it isn't... yet some people eh...

I should, but I'm talking to God about the whole thing at the moment, and he hasn't mentioned that I need to do any of that stuff. I prefer you in front of me.

bent over, as usual?

mashman
26th March 2020, 20:31
bent over, as usual?

The question mark is cute though, it almost makes it out as though you give me an option. Perils of being easy I guess.

mashman
26th March 2020, 20:40
Quite.

If you were so advanced in thought as you claim to be, an actual rebuttal would be simple and easy. Like when I say 'Price rises or falls until supply = demand".

Of course, if you were full of shit, you'd avoid trying to rebut it (since it would serve only to highlight your failures and shortcomings) and simply reply with something smug as if you'd won....

My rebuttal is the laughter you are providing me at this moment. :killingme@won. NOW that is the perspective of a simpleton.

TheDemonLord
27th March 2020, 08:59
My rebuttal is the laughter you are providing me at this moment. :killingme@won. NOW that is the perspective of a simpleton.

Laughter - maybe.
Cognitive thought and persuasive argument - Suspiciously lacking.

You still cannot solve the problem of user choice and scarcity in your system. All of your 'we can just get more under an RBE' (doubly hilarious because of your critique of 'consumerism') fails, spectacularly. You either have a system that massively over-produces with huge wastage, or you end up with a system where there is no individual choice - everything gets allocated by the Government - and as you yourself have stated, such a system breeds corruption (just like every Communist state... Funny that).

Neither can you solve the problem of Human Nature being fundamentally incompatible with your system, in fact you fail so badly at this hurdle that you have to Pray the Human Nature away.

Who is the Simpleton? The person who has to deny reality in order to preserve their flawed ideology or the person who can debunk it with a simple sentence: "Price rises or falls until Supply equals Demand".

But by all means, continue shitting on the Chess Board and strutting around like you've won - it's just proof that you've the intellect of a Pigeon.

pritch
27th March 2020, 09:19
Having read what some other governments are doing, f'rinstance UK, Australia, and the USA which is basically doing nothing, I'm happy with what is being done here. We may quibble with the detail but at least they are trying something and they did it relatively quickly.

One thing I don't understand is why the US Stockmarket is rising. It's almost as if they haven't got a clue what's possibly just over the horizon.

mashman
27th March 2020, 09:26
Laughter - maybe.
Cognitive thought and persuasive argument - Suspiciously lacking.

You still cannot solve the problem of user choice and scarcity in your system. All of your 'we can just get more under an RBE' (doubly hilarious because of your critique of 'consumerism') fails, spectacularly. You either have a system that massively over-produces with huge wastage, or you end up with a system where there is no individual choice - everything gets allocated by the Government - and as you yourself have stated, such a system breeds corruption (just like every Communist state... Funny that).

Neither can you solve the problem of Human Nature being fundamentally incompatible with your system, in fact you fail so badly at this hurdle that you have to Pray the Human Nature away.

Who is the Simpleton? The person who has to deny reality in order to preserve their flawed ideology or the person who can debunk it with a simple sentence: "Price rises or falls until Supply equals Demand".

But by all means, continue shitting on the Chess Board and strutting around like you've won - it's just proof that you've the intellect of a Pigeon.

Mate, you can't handle logic, reason, common sense and clear cut evidence... so thinking that you have some claim over what constitutes cogent thought is fucking hilarious. Laughter again, check, and a chur bro.

I solved it. You didn't understand it. I even explained the parable (I honestly believe that I met bogan that say, and boy did he get pwnd) as to why you couldn't understand the solution, and continue to highlight why you are incapable of such thought. In fact, I leave you to explain why you are incapable of such thought, because you highlight it so well... much better than i ever could should I ever take the want to do such a thing.

I have solved the Economic Calculation Problem in such a way that it can handle mass unemployment without crashing the economy... ergo, you can have all the tech you want so long as it's useful, because creating the useless shit clearly means less useful shit to go around.

My poor deluded lard. This isn't about winning and losing. If you stop making it about such, you might actually learn something. If it takes intelligence to design such an economic model, then I Am one of the foremost minds on this planet given that I can, and have proven with/through many others, done as I have stated. YOU ARE WRONG. If you think that that means you've lost, then you really don't have a fucking scooby do about anything.

NOW, wherez my fucking Nobels at?

mashman
27th March 2020, 09:36
One thing I don't understand is why the US Stockmarket is rising. It's almost as if they haven't got a clue what's possibly just over the horizon.

:killingme... seems to be a recurring theme. It's a QE, ish, thing. It gets around inflation coz you're creating money against an asset instead of out of thin air. That that asset may actually be thin air or not even exist is irrelevant (it can be simply represented by a $1 trillion platinum coin, as Obama wanted) so long as there is confidence in it existing by those who are getting the money to invest in it... or at least until the gig is up and it all falls on its face.

Don't fret, it's perfectly normal business practice.

Bonez
27th March 2020, 09:46
NOW, wherez my fucking Nobels at?They give those to folk who do absolutely nothing and cause greif in other countries these days. Emmy maybe?

I love when you ypou sudo interlectuals have a "discussion". Proves you are no different to us normal folk.:baby: Certainly better than a Mills and Boons novel.

mashman
27th March 2020, 10:06
They give those to folk who do absolutely nothing and cause greif in other countries these days. Emmy maybe?

I love when you ypou sudo interlectuals have a "discussion". Proves you are no different to us normal folk.:baby: Certainly better than a Mills and Boons novel.

Oh thank you, thank you thank you... oh, oh, I never thought this day would come (rapid hand waft over face to try to dry tears of joy), I'd like to thank, well you obviously, because I've already thank you, and, well, technically my mum is a part of that you so I don't need to directly thank her even though she had a pretty tough job raising my sister... oh and God, who I just simply wouldn't be here without... oh so many of you.

Nah fuck that shit. I've cracked the Economic Calculation Problem which Will bring about Peace given that none have to fight for resources anymore. I reckon that'd restore some honour to the names that deserve to be there. Economics and Peace. C'mon, hand them over. And when you write my name in the history books, make sure you spell it right: "Weedidit Toogethere".

Katman
27th March 2020, 10:07
But by all means, continue shitting on the Chess Board and strutting around like you've won - it's just proof that you've the intellect of a Pigeon.

Well it sure beats your strutting around like a turkey.

Bonez
27th March 2020, 10:19
Oh thank you, thank you thank you... .You're most welcome. Thanks for the pos rep. Connie, my wife nearly laughed herself shitless....:laugh:

Viking01
27th March 2020, 10:22
Having read what some other governments are doing, f'rinstance UK, Australia, and the USA which is basically doing nothing, I'm happy with what is being done here. We may quibble with the detail but at least they are trying something and they did it relatively quickly.

One thing I don't understand is why the US Stockmarket is rising. It's almost as if they haven't got a clue what's possibly just over the horizon.

Re the first point: You mention the US and Australia. It might be worth looking at future progress and success for countries having a federal / state structure (vs a single nation state), and how well aligned / consistent is their approach.

I watch the US with interest, given its current political polarisation and the likely variation in action taken across red / blue states.

[Edit]

And another area of geographic interest to me:

https://www.euronews.com/2020/03/26/neighbours-denmark-and-sweden-miles-apart-on-coronavirus-confinement

pritch
27th March 2020, 16:59
The Governor of Mississippi was doing nothing about the threat of Corona virus so some cities and towns introduced their own isolation rules. The Governor said words to the effect, we are not China, we will not become China, and promptly ordered everybody back to work.

Mississippi is ranked fiftieth of the USA states for life expectancy. Life expectancy there is about equal with Bangladesh. Well, it was. The gormless Governor might have changed that.

The rednecks down there might chant USA! USA! and talk about 'The greatest nation on earth," but make no mistake, Mississippi is shit hole country.

Katman
27th March 2020, 17:38
Mississippi is shit hole country.

Wow, what a reasoned opinion.

Bonez
27th March 2020, 17:47
Wow, what a reasoned opinion.I thought it was a State in the Union. Well that is what the teacher told me at primary school........(Dots added for effect) It was a long time ago though so things might have changed since then.:rolleyes: Maybe pitch went to a school of higher learning. You know the ones with their heads in the clouds. Less oxygen up there I believe. Which would explain a lot.

Missisipi COVID-16 official page https://msdh.ms.gov/msdhsite/_static/14,0,420.html

Swoop
27th March 2020, 19:51
You and ellipsis aren't related by any chance?
Nope. Unless he is fabulously rich and wanting to adopt a new relative?


- Every Marxist/Socialist/Communist/RBEist ever.

For historical context - that's normally right before the Mass Executions and Mass Starvations start happening...
Socialism: A nice concept/idea, but never works in practice due to everyone wanting a better life.
Also not wanting an authoritarian political system.


One thing I don't understand is why the US Stockmarket is rising.
There's money to be made on a downward trending market... for the clever investors.

Drew
27th March 2020, 19:57
How did this thread turn into a pissing contest?

Bonez
27th March 2020, 20:02
How did this thread turn into a pissing contest?You are new here obviously....:yawn:

sidecar bob
27th March 2020, 20:07
How did this thread turn into a pissing contest?

Fuck knows, I'm stuck at home with my hot wife that can cook, deciding which of twelve bikes i want to mess about with first when I'm not screwing
Do I win?

Bonez
27th March 2020, 20:16
Fuck knows, I'm stuck at home with my hot wife that can cook, deciding which of twelve bikes i want to mess about with first when I'm not screwing
Do I win?12 bikes and a wife. Man you must be exhausted at the end of the day....:cool:

I'm glad I down sized. Except for the wife. Far easier to manage. I recommend the $50ish rego thing.

sidecar bob
27th March 2020, 20:22
12 bikes and a wife. Man you must be exhausted at the end of the day....:cool:

I'm glad I down sized. Except for the wife. Far easier to manage. I recommend the $50ish rego thing.

I left a few at the workshop.
I might run the gauntlet & bring a couple home if I run out of shit to do.
But seriously, if I didn't have a pile of mechanical relief I'd be chewing the legs off the furniture by now.

Gremlin
27th March 2020, 21:40
In IT, so essential on multiple levels, got the letter and all. However, will only be using in emergencies (although defining an emergency is kinda up to me, as the rules are pretty vague, even down to, if it keeps people working remotely and complying with the lockdown, and businesses operating...)

I guess I should count myself lucky, I definitely have a job, but I'm really looking forward to sleeping this weekend, been a long week. :sleep: Currently I still have a backlog of smaller jobs, so it's working as usual, albeit remotely for now, along with the day to day support.

Concerned about the situation when the lockdown ends though. Moving staff home, getting setups completed etc over 3-4 days was exciting enough, having everyone come back on a single day is not something I want to contemplate.

Berries
27th March 2020, 23:19
I got me my letter. I might have to invent an emergency so I can get out from my 'bubble'. It's doing my fucking head in.


Concerned about the situation when the lockdown ends though. Moving staff home, getting setups completed etc over 3-4 days was exciting enough, having everyone come back on a single day is not something I want to contemplate.Look on the bright side. if it all works out the company will ditch the office and the rent and the staff can stay working at home.


How did this thread turn into a pissing contest?Bonehead arrived and he has the hots for pritch ...........(Dots added for effect)

MarkH
28th March 2020, 06:13
Normally my co-worker and I each work 5 days, I'm mon-fri and he's fri-tue which means that there are both of us working on Friday, Monday & Tuesday. There is not enough work for 2 guys in 2 trucks on any day right now, so there will only be one of us at work on any given day from now on. I asked the boss if I'm needed on Monday, he said that he will call me on Sunday and let me know.

Meanwhile my sister is on full pay, but only has to work 1 day per week. BTW, if you need banking services at BNZ - they are only open 1 day per week.

FJRider
28th March 2020, 08:40
a lady at work is stucj right in the middle of this They have bought land,settlement is in about two weeks,the sellers wont budge.Their house is sold but settlemt is in about two weeks..How will they (or the other people) move?

Tell your lady at work to charge them extravagant rent from the settlement date. They might just find a way to move.

Either way ... win win ... <_<

pritch
28th March 2020, 09:23
In what I guess is an unsurprising move, Texas has categorised gun shops as 'essential' businesses. They'll still be able to shoot the virus.

Bonez
28th March 2020, 09:47
In what I guess is an unsurprising move, Texas has categorised gun shops as 'essential' businesses. They'll still be able to shoot the virus.Which one? Mexican cartels? The current coronavirus isn't as effective in hot dry conditions compared to cooler areas according to those that specialise in that feild. And that's not a feild of dasies.

Oakie
28th March 2020, 10:04
After all this is over ... and it will be over at some point, it'll be interesting to see how many businesses change the way they work following the experiences of working in this environment. Picking some will realise that 'oh yeah, people really can work from home effectively".

Bonez
28th March 2020, 10:08
After all this is over ... and it will be over at some point, it'll be interesting to see how many businesses change the way they work following the experiences of working in this environment. Picking some will realise that 'oh yeah, people really can work from home effectively".I'd imagine so for the businesses/jobs it would apply to.

MarkH
28th March 2020, 14:18
Got an E-Mail from the boss, there is no longer enough work to employ me full time, they want to pay me for only 28 hours for me to do 4 days a week work. I've replied suggesting that I could take a few weeks off and they could just pay me the $585 subsidy, this would let them give my work-mate a full time job & pay - the work-mate has mentioned in the past that he has almost no money left from each pay. If they have me working 4 days a week then he would only get 3 days and he'd earn about half his normal amount. I have no bills on the horizon and I can get by for a while on the subsidy alone, though I hope this lock-down doesn't go on for too long.

I'm now waiting for a reply from my boss to let me know if he wants to take me up on my offer.

I've got plenty of TV on my hard drives, enough to keep me busy for a LOT more than a few weeks. I think I'll cope at home OK.

jasonu
28th March 2020, 16:00
Got an E-Mail from the boss, there is no longer enough work to employ me full time, they want to pay me for only 28 hours for me to do 4 days a week work. I've replied suggesting that I could take a few weeks off and they could just pay me the $585 subsidy, this would let them give my work-mate a full time job & pay - the work-mate has mentioned in the past that he has almost no money left from each pay. If they have me working 4 days a week then he would only get 3 days and he'd earn about half his normal amount. I have no bills on the horizon and I can get by for a while on the subsidy alone, though I hope this lock-down doesn't go on for too long.

I'm now waiting for a reply from my boss to let me know if he wants to take me up on my offer.

I've got plenty of TV on my hard drives, enough to keep me busy for a LOT more than a few weeks. I think I'll cope at home OK.

What happened to the 7 odd thousand dollars everyone that is affected by this situation was supposed to get?

pritch
28th March 2020, 16:45
After all this is over ... and it will be over at some point, it'll be interesting to see how many businesses change the way they work following the experiences of working in this environment. Picking some will realise that 'oh yeah, people really can work from home effectively".

That might depend how you define "effectively". There was a cafe in the US claimed to be doing a roaring trade serving people 'working from home'.

One person I can see from my house was working from home on his computer. His computer bore a remarkable resemblance to a chainsaw though. Even made the right noises.

It's all good as long as the job remains. Some won't.

JimO
28th March 2020, 17:10
What happened to the 7 odd thousand dollars everyone that is affected by this situation was supposed to get?
self employed get $585 less tax for 4 weeks only, as i understand it

edit just checked bank acc been paid 7k for 12 weeks, doubt anyone is going back to work in 4 weeks

JimO
28th March 2020, 17:11
I was surprised to find that heat pump installers aren't essential, coming in to winter and all.

I'm aware of a few tradies who intend to work anyway, fucken scumbags.
have a read of the MBIE website, some tradesman are considered essential

MarkH
28th March 2020, 17:56
What happened to the 7 odd thousand dollars everyone that is affected by this situation was supposed to get?

I'm unsure of exactly how much government assistance my employer is receiving, but the business is down to a very small amount, probably less than 25% of normal.
I'm still discussing the options with the boss, but there really isn't a lot of work for 2 workers when 75% of the normal work has disappeared.

FJRider
28th March 2020, 18:12
have a read of the MBIE website, some tradesman are considered essential

Essential yes, but they're only allowed to do urgent work ... if it can be left for four weeks ... it gets left.

onearmedbandit
28th March 2020, 18:22
Essential yes, but they're only allowed to do urgent work ... if it can be left for four weeks ... it gets left.

Indeed. My mates new pad (which we were looking forward to for winter) is on hold. No work until lock down over.

JimO
28th March 2020, 18:47
Essential yes, but they're only allowed to do urgent work ... if it can be left for four weeks ... it gets left. we pulled our kitchen out 2 weeks ago, new one was booked for next week, is a kitchen essential? we currently cooking on a bbq on the porch, washing dishes in a bkt, my son pulled his bathroom out last weekend, no shower, gerry rigged terlit, no washing machine, is reinstating that essential?

onearmedbandit
28th March 2020, 18:53
we pulled our kitchen out 2 weeks ago, new one was booked for next week, is a kitchen essential? we currently cooking on a bbq on the porch, washing dishes in a bkt, my son pulled his bathroom out last weekend, no shower, gerry rigged terlit, no washing machine, is reinstating that essential?

I'd argue both of those are essential. But that's just me.

FJRider
28th March 2020, 19:24
we pulled our kitchen out 2 weeks ago, new one was booked for next week, is a kitchen essential? we currently cooking on a bbq on the porch, washing dishes in a bkt, my son pulled his bathroom out last weekend, no shower, gerry rigged terlit, no washing machine, is reinstating that essential?

No it's not esdsential. You can still cook. And Laundromats are open.

Better you die than essential worker ... <_<

FJRider
28th March 2020, 19:27
I'd argue both of those are essential. But that's just me.

Handy yes ... but if you have other means to cook (or survive) it's declared not essential.

Jeeper
28th March 2020, 20:04
Some can also argue that both were self-inflicted. Unfortunate timing, but as long as there are alternative means of cooking and cleaning are available, it can wait.

FJRider
28th March 2020, 20:47
Some can also argue that both were self-inflicted. Unfortunate timing, but as long as there are alternative means of cooking and cleaning are available, it can wait.

The key to the arguement is ... is a safety issue.

Yes - Urgent.

No - It can wait.

onearmedbandit
28th March 2020, 21:53
Granted not life or death essential, especially if you have other means available. However being asked to remain at home for four weeks (minimum) is a big ask in itself, challenging enough without adding a missing kitchen to the mix. Yeah you'd survive the inconvenience but maybe not the tension it generates.

Jeeper
28th March 2020, 22:02
The key to the arguement is ... is a safety issue.

Yes - Urgent.

No - It can wait.Essential to sustaining life. Yes or No.

If my life is sustainable with alternative cooking, it's not essential to my life.

HenryDorsetCase
28th March 2020, 22:21
we pulled our kitchen out 2 weeks ago, new one was booked for next week, is a kitchen essential? we currently cooking on a bbq on the porch, washing dishes in a bkt, my son pulled his bathroom out last weekend, no shower, gerry rigged terlit, no washing machine, is reinstating that essential?

my brother owns a joinery business and is quite successful. When we did our kitchen I pulled it out over an Easter weekend and it was to be delivered and installed the next week.

It was done over Queens Birthday weekend. 12 fucking weeks. Shit got old quick.

jasonu
29th March 2020, 04:24
we pulled our kitchen out 2 weeks ago,
I really like BBQing stuff but not every day for 4 weeks.
I vote essential.

Oakie
29th March 2020, 07:29
What happened to the 7 odd thousand dollars everyone that is affected by this situation was supposed to get?

It's paid to the employer to pass on over a potential period of 12 weeks.

Oakie
29th March 2020, 07:31
self employed get $585 less tax for 4 weeks only, as i understand it

edit just checked bank acc been paid 7k for 12 weeks, doubt anyone is going back to work in 4 weeks

12 weeks is the default paid to employers. I've not read the instructions yet but I'd imagine there's a square up at the end and the employer would refund anything not paid out.

F5 Dave
29th March 2020, 08:26
Geez that's risky isn't it? How many businesses would absorb that and not be able to pay it back?

JimO
29th March 2020, 08:57
Handy yes ... but if you have other means to cook (or survive) it's declared not essential.
LOL says the man with a kitchen

Katman
29th March 2020, 09:06
LOL says the man with a kitchen

It amuses me that there are people out there who are so cocksure of themselves (there's another one for the Berk to get excited over) that they think they know the answer to every question that arises during this unprecedented event.

None of us know the definitive answer - and that seems to include those setting the rules.

FJRider
29th March 2020, 11:02
LOL says the man with a kitchen

Call an electrician and ask ... ;)

JimO
29th March 2020, 11:23
Call an electrician and ask ... ;)
electrician, joiner, plumber all involved, im not worried i can live without a kitchen

FJRider
29th March 2020, 12:21
electrician, joiner, plumber all involved, im not worried i can live without a kitchen

Clearly not essential then ... :laugh:

jasonu
29th March 2020, 13:13
It's paid to the employer to pass on over a potential period of 12 weeks.

But I recall the powers that are saying folks (not employers) will get a lump sum of $7800 to take care of (I think) 13 weeks pay. it was in the news a week or so ago.

SaferRides
29th March 2020, 13:52
I do wonder how many employees will see the full amount. What happens if the business is wound up in a few weeks?

I'm not sure about the tax implications for my business either, so will apply in April. .

FJRider
29th March 2020, 13:54
But I recall the powers that are saying folks (not employers) will get a lump sum of $7800 to take care of (I think) 13 weeks pay. it was in the news a week or so ago.

https://www2.deloitte.com/nz/en/pages/tax-alerts/articles/covid-19-entitlements.html#

Coldrider
29th March 2020, 14:16
Essential, by trade for health and safety of people in homes and at work, and by full time contractor in the food chain supply. Only permitted to purchase items from open retailers/ wholesalers that are relevant to an essential job.
So five days a week plus callouts in the weekend, its great I dont like visitors anyway at the peak of the season.

TheDemonLord
29th March 2020, 19:17
I'd written out a long reply dissecting your waffle, but the Cookie Monster ate it. So instead I've decided to go with the abridged (for me anyway) version


Mate, you can't handle logic, reason, common sense and clear cut evidence... so thinking that you have some claim over what constitutes cogent thought is fucking hilarious. Laughter again, check, and a chur bro.

I solved it. You didn't understand it. I even explained the parable (I honestly believe that I met bogan that say, and boy did he get pwnd) as to why you couldn't understand the solution, and continue to highlight why you are incapable of such thought. In fact, I leave you to explain why you are incapable of such thought, because you highlight it so well... much better than i ever could should I ever take the want to do such a thing.

So, for reference - This is in relation to the problem of Personal Choice in an RBE and the fact (despite Mashies assertions he's solved the riddle) that it is impossible without a means to measure relative value (be that Money, Barter, whatever) - Fun begins here (https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/122031-My-first-poll-for-the-NZ-public/page111) - Mashie's 'Solution' is that without the impediment of Money, we can always just get more stuff (no we can't, all resources are Finite and therefore scarce from an Economics PoV) or that people will just have to queue up with a hope they will get what they want (which ironically proves my point that under an RBE there would be severely limited personal choice compared to the current system)

But anyway, in the above quote Mashie claims that he has solved the problem of personal choice being non-existent under an RBE. So, let's take him at his word for now...


I have solved the Economic Calculation Problem in such a way that it can handle mass unemployment without crashing the economy... ergo, you can have all the tech you want so long as it's useful, because creating the useless shit clearly means less useful shit to go around.

"So long as it's Useful" - which means all the "Useless" goods and services (as defined by the Gossnab or Mashman or Our Glorious leader) that are currently produced (and therefore have both people that choose to produce them and people that choose to buy them) won't exist.

Mashman, in a spectacular display of senility disproves his earlier statement and in fact proves the very critique I leveled at the system nearly 4 years ago, in the post where he asserts he solved it.


My poor deluded lard. This isn't about winning and losing. If you stop making it about such, you might actually learn something. If it takes intelligence to design such an economic model, then I Am one of the foremost minds on this planet given that I can, and have proven with/through many others, done as I have stated. YOU ARE WRONG. If you think that that means you've lost, then you really don't have a fucking scooby do about anything.

NOW, wherez my fucking Nobels at?

See the part where you contradicted yourself and proved that under an RBE personal choice would be removed. Just like Communism, Socialism and every other failure of a Marxist-derived, centrally planned economy.

pete376403
29th March 2020, 19:19
https://www2.deloitte.com/nz/en/pages/tax-alerts/articles/covid-19-entitlements.html#

My employer will be paying me the $585 as described in the Delloite link. It will still be subject to income tax so I'm expecting it to be more like $450.Also Kiwisaver employee contribution will be deducted unless I request a payments holiday. Fortunately the house and credit cards are paid off, no HPs etc but shit its going to be a struggle for some.

Drew
29th March 2020, 19:31
Turns out that heat pumps are essential, if they're the only form of heating in a house. So we can go and investigate broken ones, and replace them should we need to.

mashman
29th March 2020, 19:39
See the part where you contradicted yourself and proved that under an RBE personal choice would be removed.

Nope. Do you see that you must have misunderstood something?

F5 Dave
29th March 2020, 20:51
No it appears that he doesnt like you because you speak like a deluded hypocrite. Then you Interdesperse it with :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: as if you think you are so clever. But nobody thinks that.

Really .

Nobody thinks you are clever. We all think you are quite simple and deluded.

Haha chuckle, oh no, it's so funny you all are sheeple.

Bollocks. Buy a motorcycle and come back when you are enlightened.

Oakie
29th March 2020, 20:59
I do wonder how many employees will see the full amount. What happens if the business is wound up in a few weeks?

I'm not sure about the tax implications for my business either, so will apply in April. .

No tax implications. It's not regarded as revenue. I finally read the instructions this morning.

Coldrider
29th March 2020, 21:07
LOL says the man with a kitchensupply of bottled gas is essential service, potable water, hot water from cylinder, sanitation and sewage all essential. Leaking tap washer not essential. Having said that, you still need a relevant tradie to brave leaving isolation, be prepared to be ravaged by the virus and turn up.

Coldrider
29th March 2020, 21:27
The only example if a carpenter as essential service on the MBIE site is securing of roof or structure where there is immediate threat to human health or safety, and that is only an example so not limiting to but gives the point.
However if work is in progress and the building is actually occupied then there is a case that it could be essential.
So JimO if you query MBIE or your Council you may have a case.
Being a Registered and Licenced tradie I get guidance and updates from MBIE, and they are prone to change due to everyone being blindsided by this situation.

mashman
30th March 2020, 06:19
No it appears that he doesnt like you because you speak like a deluded hypocrite. Then you Interdesperse it with :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: as if you think you are so clever. But nobody thinks that.

Really .

Nobody thinks you are clever. We all think you are quite simple and deluded.

Haha chuckle, oh no, it's so funny you all are sheeple.

Bollocks. Buy a motorcycle and come back when you are enlightened.

Oh no. No one likes me. What a surprise. I might develop a complex about it if any of you could put a valid argument together. Butcha can't, ya'll get all personal, ooooo it's mashie trying to be smart, get him :killingme... and you guys actually think you're insulting me. You're not. I'll say it again. You are ignoring the evidence.

Well at least you see his, and your, clear bias. Critical thinkers don't give a shit who is providing them with information, they simply accept the information and deal with it to a point of shared understanding, instead of throwing their own clear bias into the mix and thererfore limiting any form of critical thinking that they think they're employing.

:killingme@enlightened: Lemme see now. WTF is mashie doing here when all he gets is abuse... hmmm, coz I like to laugh at just how stupid you all given that you mistake me for the evidence. I wish I was as enlightened like you guys, then maybe you'd accept me and like me more, I really need to learn from you, your abuse, hostility, bias, misunderstanding, exceptionally poor critical thinking ability, and no taste in sandwiches, really puts the shine on this enlightenment thing and makes me wanna be more like you normal guys, just coz I need to fit in and seem as intelligent as you.

:second:

Drew
30th March 2020, 06:42
Oh no. No one likes me. What a surprise. I might develop a complex about it if any of you could put a valid argument together. need to fit in and seem as intelligent as you.

:second:
Look man, just shut the fuck up already. No one gives a fuck how clever you are or are not.

Nobody wants to take the risk of going to your cashless society.

More importantly, no one wants to hear about it either.

mashman
30th March 2020, 06:56
Look man, just shut the fuck up already. No one gives a fuck how clever you are or are not.

Nobody wants to take the risk of going to your cashless society.

More importantly, no one wants to hear about it either.

Certainly seems that way. As I said to Crasher many years ago when he sent something similar to the above through PM. I do not class myself more or less clever than anyone. Tis you guys that go around making those decisions for me, I just troll the fuck out of you when you start making such stupid assumptions... but hey, by all means feel free to continue not responding to anything I post, eh Son.

Some do.

Some also find it important.

Paul in NZ
30th March 2020, 07:18
Vicki is still essential and will continue to be - shes up at 2am and 3am putting stock on supermarket shelves.. Its been crazy how much stock has sold through...

I'm working from home triging jobs and finalising FY20. We still have teams out there building stuff and making connections in the network. The amount of call and internet traffic has changed dramatically as well as where its coming from so networks need rebalancing. Also many new organizations spring up to take calls etc.

Not sure how long all this will last of course...

Stay safe

TheDemonLord
30th March 2020, 08:23
Nope. Do you see that you must have misunderstood something?

You say I misunderstood something
yet
you demonstrate (by your own words) I've understood it better than you.

Again, If there is no limit to demand (in the form of Price) then Demand will always outstrip supply, you will get shortages and then Consumer choice is diminished.
If you decide to ration out the Supply, then consumer choice is diminished.
If you decide that some products are 'Useless' and therefore won't be produced, then consumer choice is diminished.
If you don't allow people to bid with their assets/resources/money, then consumer choice is diminished.

This is the same thing that happens at both the Micro and Macro level, invariably because of Humans and Human nature.

TheDemonLord
30th March 2020, 08:50
No it appears that he doesnt like you because you speak like a deluded hypocrite. Then you Interdesperse it with :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: as if you think you are so clever. But nobody thinks that.

Really .

Nobody thinks you are clever. We all think you are quite simple and deluded.

Haha chuckle, oh no, it's so funny you all are sheeple.

Bollocks. Buy a motorcycle and come back when you are enlightened.

To be fair, it's not that I don't like Mashman, I dislike very few people, I have a few problems with the RBE solution he proposes, the first is because it is derived from the same Marxist school of thought that simply doesn't work, relies on Tabula Rasa and inevitibly devolves into tyranny and piles of corpses whilst trying to achieve 'Utopia'

My second issue is perhaps more poignant: For all it's flaws, there's a couple of nuggets in there that are worth considering and seriously. The problem is that the proponents of it have such a poor grasp on economic fundamentals that they never develop those few good ideas further into something that might be viable.

Without getting into too much detail - there is a large number of Businesses that put up with operational inefficiencies because the cost of rectifying those inefficiences is either too great for the initial CAPEX or that the predicted gains in efficiency over the lifetime and volume of the operational use does not offset the cost.

Mashie will then loudly proclaim at this point "See! Money is the problem, get rid of Money and no cost and then Utopia, TDL proves me right blah blah blah".

But Mashie forgets, that Cost is merely a placeholder for determining the relative value in the market of scarce (ie Finite) Resource. Consider Time - Manhours - None of us live forever, and so there is a finite number of Hours we can devote to working - And more than that, not everyone's Time is of equal value. Not everyone can do everything else. For example - if the requirement is to run a package from point A to point B as fast as possible, then my time is no where near as valuable as say Usain Bolts or Eliud Kipchoges.

If we say that every Doctors office now has their own Air Ambulance service to transport patients, Someone has to build those Helicopters (which takes a lot of Manhours and requires specialists which are rare) it takes someone to maintain them (also Manhours, specialists), it takes a pilot (Manhours, Specialists).

Even if you remove money, those things still have a cost - and that is the part that the RBE fails to take into account.

That said, the idea that by allowing businesses to access tech that is normally priced out of their reach to drive efficiency and economic growth does have some merit.

mashman
30th March 2020, 09:54
You say I misunderstood something
yet
you demonstrate (by your own words) I've understood it better than you.

And I Am telling you right now, in this instant, that you have misunderstood those words, not only because you have a bias against anything I say (you like to argue remember trollylolly), but you have no idea what it is that I've been speaking about from day 1 due to the fact that you haven't listened when it has been explained to you that our understandings are not the same. This was evidenced over a considerable amount of time. Given that it is me saying that I Am passing on some new insight that I was made aware of, you claiming to know what I Am stating is singularly the most stupid revelation you have come up with yet... And believe me, :killingme for Dave, I know what I mean when I say it, and when I say that's not what I meant, well, yeah, that kid of is the truth.

You ripped your own undies a long long long time ago, I simply accepted that that's what you wanted (trolled the shit out of you really doesn't cover it) and tried to apply a wedgie technique to dislodge your head from your arse. Alas I failed. As I do in everything eh eh eh eh eh.

Have fun sweetums, and make sure your next post is a goodun, because it is highly likely the last one I'll ever read, and whilst I don't read your posts, I kind of admire your dogged relentlessness whilst trying to scroll past your posts... because there is a dedication in trying to get ones view across using so many words. You still evidence yourself as being able to hear what is being said/written though.

So what is it to be? Oh shit! Really? Or Nah, that can't be true (despite me stating it over and over in post after post, you know, evidence). There was no honour in me doing that other than to give you the chance to vent and for me to get information out there that others might find interesting enough to think longer and harder about it.

You served your purpose well, and I both thank you for that and apologise for putting you through something that you don't yet understand. Best of luck mate.

FJRider
30th March 2020, 10:38
However if work is in progress and the building is actually occupied then there is a case that it could be essential.

Being a Registered and Licenced tradie I get guidance and updates from MBIE, and they are prone to change due to everyone being blindsided by this situation.

Work in prgress with the place being occupied might suggest otherwise ... unless they were going next door to shower/toilet/cook etc ...

From the tradies I work with (I'm still working) the health & safety issue is the guide (note guide).

Machinery and staff still functioning safely ... it gets left. Most though just do what needs to be done.

FJRider
30th March 2020, 11:22
Again, If there is no limit to demand (in the form of Price) then Demand will always outstrip supply, you will get shortages and then Consumer choice is diminished.
If you decide to ration out the Supply, then consumer choice is diminished.
If you decide that some products are 'Useless' and therefore won't be produced, then consumer choice is diminished.
If you don't allow people to bid with their assets/resources/money, then consumer choice is diminished.

This is the same thing that happens at both the Micro and Macro level, invariably because of Humans and Human nature.

If there is demand for an item ... for some PRICE is never an issue. The less wealthy either get less or do without/find a cheaper solution.

Our society is based on giving consumers choice with the products they can buy. If product does not sell or is less popular ... production gets reduced to meet sales. Thus although based on consumer choice ... reduced production with some products is CAUSED by consumer choice. You can hardly complain that it's not there anymore ... if you (or enough people) never use it.

If supply of "Popular" items is in short supply ... retailers usually limit supply to customers by number of items ... rather than price (Price gauging is officially frowned on). This is common now in the supermarkets I've been in. Other choices are there still ... but the usually higher priced items often are.

When times get tough (and we're not there yet [or even close]) lack of "Consumer choice" is not a bad thing. And in good times ... a mere luxury.

Kickaha
30th March 2020, 11:24
Vicki is still essential and will continue to be - shes up at 2am and 3am putting stock on supermarket shelves.. Its been crazy how much stock has sold through...


Just one of the local supermarkets here went from getting 45 pallets of product per day to over 120 in the lead up to the lock down

mashman
30th March 2020, 11:59
If there is demand for an item ... for some PRICE is never an issue. The less wealthy either get less or do without/find a cheaper solution.

Our society is based on giving consumers choice with the products they can buy. If product does not sell or is less popular ... production gets reduced to meet sales. Thus although based on consumer choice ... reduced production with some products is CAUSED by consumer choice. You can hardly complain that it's not there anymore ... if you (or enough people) ever use it.

If supply of "Popular" items is in short supply ... retailers usually limit supply to customers by number of items ... rather than price (Price gauging is officially frowned on). This is common now in the supermarkets I've been in. Other choices are there still ... but the usually higher priced items often are.

When times get tough (and we're not there yet [or even close]) lack of "Consumer choice" is not a bad thing. And in good times ... a mere luxury.

He is doing exactly the same thing that economists, who have been listened to date, have done. They have ignored the pale blue dot in infinite space problem, which somewhat invalidates their economic models somewhat. You cannot explain anything to anyone who is not aware of all of the parameters, let alone someone who relies wholly on a discipline that is evidenced to have led us to where we are today by thinking that way. Pretty simple really.

SaferRides
30th March 2020, 13:00
No tax implications. It's not regarded as revenue. I finally read the instructions this morning.Application done and I have read the declaration carefully and checked that revenue will be at least 30% down in April. It will be much more than that.

Berries
30th March 2020, 13:23
but you have no idea what it is that I've been speaking about from day 1.
Me neither.

TheDemonLord
30th March 2020, 14:03
And I Am telling you right now, in this instant, that you have misunderstood those words, not only because you have a bias against anything I say (you like to argue remember trollylolly), but you have no idea what it is that I've been speaking about from day 1 due to the fact that you haven't listened when it has been explained to you that our understandings are not the same. This was evidenced over a considerable amount of time. Given that it is me saying that I Am passing on some new insight that I was made aware of, you claiming to know what I Am stating is singularly the most stupid revelation you have come up with yet... And believe me, :killingme for Dave, I know what I mean when I say it, and when I say that's not what I meant, well, yeah, that kid of is the truth.

You ripped your own undies a long long long time ago, I simply accepted that that's what you wanted (trolled the shit out of you really doesn't cover it) and tried to apply a wedgie technique to dislodge your head from your arse. Alas I failed. As I do in everything eh eh eh eh eh.

Have fun sweetums, and make sure your next post is a goodun, because it is highly likely the last one I'll ever read, and whilst I don't read your posts, I kind of admire your dogged relentlessness whilst trying to scroll past your posts... because there is a dedication in trying to get ones view across using so many words. You still evidence yourself as being able to hear what is being said/written though.

So what is it to be? Oh shit! Really? Or Nah, that can't be true (despite me stating it over and over in post after post, you know, evidence). There was no honour in me doing that other than to give you the chance to vent and for me to get information out there that others might find interesting enough to think longer and harder about it.

You served your purpose well, and I both thank you for that and apologise for putting you through something that you don't yet understand. Best of luck mate.

What is there to reply to?

You say you've trolled me, yet that's impossible - since I'm quite candid about the fact that I like to argue. Can't really Troll the willing.

You're trying to claim that by replying I've somehow furthered your goal of disseminating your ideas, in a very narrow sense - sure, but when the dissemination comes with a rebuttal as to why it's demonstrably wrong - seems a bit of an own-goal really.

You say that you've 'stated it over and over' - I agree you have definitely stated many things, what was curiously lacking was a demonstration that they were correct. Doubly hilarious that in what you stated, you demonstrated my point for me. Perhaps it is me that should be thanking you.

You say in your post to FJR that I'm just thinking like an Economist and their thinking got us into this mess and blah blah - but that betrays the reality: Economists seek to understand Human Behavior, they did not and never did cause the problem. It's Human Nature, always was and always will be. That also happens to be the one thing that no matter how hard you try, you cannot change and it also happens to be the one thing that will cause your fantasy to come crashing down.

You may not like the current Capitalist system - Sure, I get that - it's got (like most things) a myriad of problems, I can probably list off as many as you can think of. But the one thing that it has going for it, which is why there are Capitalist systems that are literally over a thousand years old, is that it's compatible with Human Nature.

I'll end with this:

If you are so closed minded to level the charge of Heresy against me - Fine.
If you are so insecure with your own ideas that you cannot bear the test of scrutiny - also, Fine.
If the intractable problem of Human Nature vs Finite resources causes your whole system to fail before it starts but you just can't bring yourself to admit it to me or yourself and so dogmatically block out any dissension within the ranks - Again, Fine.

Like I said to Dave, I don't dislike you and there are parts of your idea that have a degree of Merit and deserve to be taken seriously (by people who actually understand economics) to see if there is a way that they could work in the real world. And since I'm a nice, helpful type of chap: Account for Human nature in your system, solve the problem of comparing the value of disparate things and you may see uptake of your ideas grow exponentially, afterall - isn't that your end goal?

FJRider
30th March 2020, 14:14
On the essential occupations ... I wonder how many (essential ??) confectioners are hard at work gearing up for the Easter chocolate sales ... ??? <_<

JimO
30th March 2020, 15:39
Work in prgress with the place being occupied might suggest otherwise ... unless they were going next door to shower/toilet/cook etc ...


\
my sons household is using a neighbours bathroom seeing as they dont have one not being essential and all that

JimO
30th March 2020, 15:41
Application done and I have read the declaration carefully and checked that revenue will be at least 30% down in April. It will be much more than that. as a self employed tradesman my income has dropped to 0

Laava
30th March 2020, 15:43
My work is not as essential as work that rolls cigarettes. I feel so unimportant.

Laava
30th March 2020, 15:44
JimO, have you applied for the govt help funding? Is it $575 a week or similar?

FJRider
30th March 2020, 15:45
my sons household is using a neighbours bathroom seeing as they dont have one not being essential and all that

They just have a bigger bubble than some. That's what friends are for. That used to be a common thing for neighbours to do.

Nowadays ... not so much. Sad really ... I've had awesome neigbours over the years ... :yes:

FJRider
30th March 2020, 15:51
My work is not as essential as work that rolls cigarettes. I feel so unimportant.

More than half of the population on welfare depend on them ... a large portion of the medical system is catered for them ... the tax recieved from them is a large portion of the Government income ... so they ARE essential.

FJRider
30th March 2020, 15:55
as a self employed tradesman my income has dropped to 0

Through my entire working life ... everytime I changed jobs ... I changed occupations.

Now I'm an esential worker. Go figure ... ;)

jasonu
30th March 2020, 16:02
The pot shops here are considered essential and are still open.

jim.cox
30th March 2020, 16:58
The pot shops here are considered essential and are still open.

Nice, but I wouldn't be sharing a joint around right now.

And I'd be pretty careful 'bout what I was breathing while inside making a purchase.

Kickaha
30th March 2020, 17:07
Essential enough that I have to go into work to sort some stuff out for an Agricultural client tomorrow, so that's an hour or maybe two taken care of

Katman
30th March 2020, 18:18
...so that's an hour or maybe two taken care of

So a normal working day for you?

Coldrider
30th March 2020, 19:54
On the essential occupations ... I wonder how many (essential ??) confectioners are hard at work gearing up for the Easter chocolate sales ... ??? <_<
Anything that was/is supplied by a supermarket is regarded as essential, lollies, beer and wine, cocacola, snifter lumps, and some food apparently.

Coldrider
30th March 2020, 20:11
Work in prgress with the place being occupied might suggest otherwise ... unless they were going next door to shower/toilet/cook etc ...

From the tradies I work with (I'm still working) the health & safety issue is the guide (note guide).

Machinery and staff still functioning safely ... it gets left. Most though just do what needs to be done.

I am sure a breakout of the Black Plague in Dunners will be a welcome distraction for Jacinta.

FJRider
30th March 2020, 20:17
I am sure a breakout of the Black Plague in Dunners will be a welcome distraction for Jacinta.

That was last week. Try to keep up ... :blank:

JimO
30th March 2020, 20:20
JimO, have you applied for the govt help funding? Is it $575 a week or similar?
yes i applied a couple of days ago and have already been paid 12 weeks

FJRider
30th March 2020, 20:21
I am sure a breakout of the Black Plague in Dunners will be a welcome distraction for Jacinta.

I don't actually work in Dunners ... just live there.

I work here ... :Offtopic:

Kickaha
30th March 2020, 20:23
So a normal working day for you?

Just about, can't even go over the road for BK while I am there though

Coldrider
30th March 2020, 20:35
I don't actually work in Dunners ... just live there.

I work here ... :Offtopic:
I'm not wasting my time with piffle arguements with you. JimO has Dunners in his profile, merely trying to give advice in his best interest based on guidance on the MBIE site. Clearly the kitchen is not essential, but sanitation is.
Hell Jacinta is going to allow citizens to buy fridges soon.

FJRider
30th March 2020, 22:04
I'm not wasting my time with piffle arguements with you. JimO has Dunners in his profile, merely trying to give advice in his best interest based on guidance on the MBIE site. Clearly the kitchen is not essential, but sanitation is.
Hell Jacinta is going to allow citizens to buy fridges soon.

Has he or his son actually made calls to (try to) get work done ... and explained their full situation ... or just asked advice on here ??

And depending on who he talks to when he calls ... might make a difference.

No success at one place ... call another. If there IS another place to call.

Do you even have an idea how many are available (and want) to do the required work ... ??

Why hasn't the person/people that started the job try to finish the job. Who declared it "Non Urgent" ??

JimO
31st March 2020, 06:41
Has he or his son actually made calls to (try to) get work done ... and explained their full situation ... or just asked advice on here ??

And depending on who he talks to when he calls ... might make a difference.

No success at one place ... call another. If there IS another place to call.

Do you even have an idea how many are available (and want) to do the required work ... ??

Why hasn't the person/people that started the job try to finish the job. Who declared it "Non Urgent" ?? my sons plumber has stated finishing the bathroom is non essential as far as he is concerned, the room has been gutted and walls straightened waiting for plumber to shift a few pipes, all materials to finish are on site

pete376403
31st March 2020, 08:11
my sons plumber has stated finishing the bathroom is non essential as far as he is concerned, the room has been gutted and walls straightened waiting for plumber to shift a few pipes, all materials to finish are on site

Plumbing is easy, do it yourself. Might not be legal but better than going without. Anyway, what council inspector will be seen in the next few weeks?

Kickaha
31st March 2020, 10:56
Just had to do my first callout for the week, absolute bliss, client turns up at work and leaves the gear with us, we hook into it, no phone calls and no walk ins to interrupt us, ring him up when we're just about finished and he turns up about 1 minute before were done, then back home for a lunchtime beer, wishing it was always this easy

98tls
31st March 2020, 16:24
12 weeks is the default paid to employers. I've not read the instructions yet but I'd imagine there's a square up at the end and the employer would refund anything not paid out.

Was just yapping to mate up in Wellington whose received his for himself and employees,12 weeks at $585 less tax (lower rate) came out at $486.42 and if all goes back to normal before the 12 weeks is up theres no requirement to pay back anything left over,he did add that there was a requirement or expectation that employers who could afford to do so would make the pay up to 80% of employees usual wage,plenty wont i would imagine but hey is what it is.

MaxPenguin
31st March 2020, 16:38
Just stopped going in to work today, working on an on call basis only now.
Prepared and expecting to lose income on this, just means no overseas trip this year and less bike parts, but it's a big picture thing and we can live quite happily on wife's income who is an essential service health worker.

Oakie
31st March 2020, 19:16
Looks like my employer is going to make up our pay to our normal average, initially anyway.

nerrrd
1st April 2020, 08:56
I think it's becoming clear that they've made a mistake using 'essential' as the term for identifying who is allowed to work or be open, given working for a living has always been 'essential' for the vast majority.

What they really mean is 'approved'.

It amuses me that a "Breville Mini Wizz" is now an 'essential item' according to Noel Leeming.

TheDemonLord
1st April 2020, 09:04
I think it's becoming clear that they've made a mistake using 'essential' as the term for identifying who is allowed to work or be open, given working for a living has always been 'essential' for the vast majority.

What they really mean is 'approved'.

It amuses me that a "Breville Mini Wizz" is now an 'essential item' according to Noel Leeming.

When you start down the 'Food is an Essential thing' path, the logical conclusion is a Breville Mini Wizz is an Essential item, since it is used in the preparation of Food.

TBH, I'm not even annoyed at Businesses trying to find ways to make sure they stay in business, by maximizing online sales.

nerrrd
1st April 2020, 11:52
When you start down the 'Food is an Essential thing' path, the logical conclusion is a Breville Mini Wizz is an Essential item, since it is used in the preparation of Food.

Sure, that's how they're defining it.

Motomail are having a 20% lockdown sale (plug!), but they're not going to be able to ship anything until after the lockdown, I guess because they've been told they're not 'essential'. They might be a bit miffed that Noel Leeming can ship a Mini Kitchen Wizz when they can't ship a helmet, which is definitely an essential item for riding a motorcycle.

I guess I just think using the term 'essential' begs an argument, whereas using 'approved' is more accurate. It's probably just me though.


TBH, I'm not even annoyed at Businesses trying to find ways to make sure they stay in business, by maximizing online sales.

Neither am I, the more businesses who can operate without violating the integrity of the lockdown the better. It's good to see they're being flexible about it.

MaxPenguin
1st April 2020, 12:13
If I had a shelves full of stock that wasn't moving due to its non essential status then a buy now at a big discount and ship later would be a priority for cash flow reasons, as long as you had a decent it platform to enable it.

Berries
1st April 2020, 13:41
It amuses me that a "Breville Mini Wizz" is now an 'essential item' according to Noel Leeming.
Is there a list? Just wondering if a PS4 is on it because that will be essential to my wellbeing in a couple of months time if this carries on.

And a Roland drum kit which I had planned to pick up the day after the lockdown started.

TheDemonLord
1st April 2020, 14:22
Is there a list? Just wondering if a PS4 is on it because that will be essential to my wellbeing in a couple of months time if this carries on.

And a Roland drum kit which I had planned to pick up the day after the lockdown started.

Which model of Roland?

Berries
1st April 2020, 15:34
Which model of Roland?
Only the basic TD1DMK. Now I have had more time I am thinking of the KAT KT3. It's more for the kids to bang around with than me reliving my teenage years.

A bit.

HenryDorsetCase
1st April 2020, 15:51
Only the basic TD1DMK. Now I have had more time I am thinking of the KAT KT3. It's more for the kids to bang around with than me reliving my teenage years.

A bit.

Has it got a gong? All drumkits need a gong. Ask John Bonham, Neal Peart, Dave Grohl - they'll tell you...

Berries
1st April 2020, 16:21
Has it got a gong? All drumkits need a gong. Ask John Bonham, Neal Peart, Dave Grohl - they'll tell you...
I wear a medallion if that counts.

TheDemonLord
1st April 2020, 19:38
Only the basic TD1DMK. Now I have had more time I am thinking of the KAT KT3. It's more for the kids to bang around with than me reliving my teenage years.

A bit.

I've got a Yamaha DTXtreme 2, but since I've now got my Acoustic kit setup, it's not seen the light of day for a while. It could be for sale depending on your budget.

Berries
1st April 2020, 23:18
I've got my essential ticket for driving in Otago and Southland, not sure I can stretch it as far as the north island.

TheDemonLord
2nd April 2020, 08:04
I've got my essential ticket for driving in Otago and Southland, not sure I can stretch it as far as the north island.

Hairy Muff, it would be rather a Pain in the Arse to Ship.

jasonu
3rd April 2020, 13:51
It's official. Sucky sucky fucky fucky for money isn't essential
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12322221