The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[TheDemonLord]

But you have already told us the virus is fake, and even if it is not, the vaccine doesn't work (but ivermctin does) so what do the nurses need to be boosted for?

I dunno about you, I never said the Virus is fake or that the Vaccine didn't work.

In this instance though, if you've caught Covid and recovered it (and have Natural Immunity), it stands to reason that you should be exempted from Booster requirements if it's within a certain time frame.

Especially since the studies show that Natural Immunity has a greater effect in transmission than the vaccines/Boosters do.

[mulletman]

As predicted the regime eventually collapses under the weight of its own restrictions. This is absolutely shocking. This is where local MPs are supposed to grow a set of balls get on phone to minister of health and sort this shit in a day, that’s 24hrs!!! This is banana republic stuff to have critical healthcare workers out of action needlessly....


https://youtu.be/MgU3Hu8kwQE

Vaccine pass exemption

Mine took about 10 days to process.

Go to doc or nurse she/he fills out 2 forms you sign , only they can send them as the ministry wont accept anyone else.

Wait for nice email from Mr Bloomfield who has to accept as you've met criteria.

Another email with downloadable pass to android/iphone or print it off.

Sign in to the ministry health whatsit and there it is.

Done.

[Kickaha]

I dunno about you, I never said the Virus is fake or that the Vaccine didn't work.

In this instance though, if you've caught Covid and recovered it (and have Natural Immunity), it stands to reason that you should be exempted from Booster requirements if it's within a certain time frame.

Especially since the studies show that Natural Immunity has a greater effect in transmission than the vaccines/Boosters do.

Natural immunity is short term as well, that's why people have caught it multiple times

It's probably outdated now but an Israeli study showed having the vaccine then getting covid gave better immunity that one or the other

[TheDemonLord]

Natural immunity is short term as well, that's why people have caught it multiple times

True, although to that same short-term immunity applies to the Vaccine as well, my point was that Natural immunity had a greater impact on transmission in that time span than the Vaccine.


It's probably outdated now but an Israeli study showed having the vaccine then getting covid gave better immunity that one or the other

I think I know the study - although I thought they compared just Natural Immunity and Vaccination immunity. It's entirely possible I missed a 3rd group.

But either way - it's probably correct.

[TheDemonLord]

Vaccine pass exemption

Mine took about 10 days to process.

Go to doc or nurse she/he fills out 2 forms you sign , only they can send them as the ministry wont accept anyone else.

Wait for nice email from Mr Bloomfield who has to accept as you've met criteria.

Another email with downloadable pass to android/iphone or print it off.

Sign in to the ministry health whatsit and there it is.

Done.

And were you able to work during those 10 days?

[mulletman]

And were you able to work during those 10 days?

Yes, only because work didnt follow through with Vaccine mandate and still havnt.

[husaberg]

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3ad399e64925ac1398f2eb7cdf9cf40b-pjlq

[TheDemonLord]

Yes, only because work didnt follow through with Vaccine mandate and still havnt.

I mean, good on your work for doing so - therein however lies the problem, the policy as it should have been applied should have seen you unable to work, despite posing no significant risk to anyone.

[husaberg]

https://i.imgflip.com/34r9k9.jpghttps://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/1a/1aea55d7533fe0fc3986d239cfec526d.jpeghttps://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/aB25b9D_460s.jpg

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/300652718/the-siren-has-sounded-scientists-pinpoint-covid19s-origin

You do have to laugh at this articles premise..... that it’s more likely nature would near simultaneously produce two different strains that pass into humans. But not a lab, no. There’s no way a lab would have multiple varieties, I mean what would the scientific value (sarcasm alert) be in working on multiple strains.

Well never know either way it just cracks me up the logic of the writer....

[husaberg]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/300652718/the-siren-has-sounded-scientists-pinpoint-covid19s-origin

You do have to laugh at this articles premise..... that it’s more likely nature would near simultaneously produce two different strains that pass into humans. But not a lab, no. There’s no way a lab would have multiple varieties, I mean what would the scientific value (sarcasm alert) be in working on multiple strains.

Well never know either way it just cracks me up the logic of the writer....

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3ad399e64925ac1398f2eb7cdf9cf40b-pjlq

[Kickaha]

https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3ad399e64925ac1398f2eb7cdf9cf40b-pjlq

He's French anyway

[husaberg]

He's French anyway

Could you tell when he used tongue?:bleh:

[Viking01]

He's French anyway

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20211105-controversial-french-doctor-raoult-in-disciplinary-hearing-over-notorious-covid-19-tips

[pritch]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/300652718/the-siren-has-sounded-scientists-pinpoint-covid19s-origin

You do have to laugh at this articles premise..... that it’s more likely nature would near simultaneously produce two different strains that pass into humans. But not a lab, no. There’s no way a lab would have multiple varieties, I mean what would the scientific value (sarcasm alert) be in working on multiple strains.

Well never know either way it just cracks me up the logic of the writer....

If I may quote the Stuff article? "People love a conspiracy theory, especially one playing out in real time on social media."

[TheDemonLord]

If I may quote the Stuff article? "People love a conspiracy theory, especially one playing out in real time on social media."

I'm very much on the Bill Maher position on this, referring to the Lab Leak as a Conspiracy is (at this point) absurd.

Doesn't mean it's true, just that there's enough evidence that it is plausible.

[neels]

I'm very much on the Bill Maher position on this, referring to the Lab Leak as a Conspiracy is (at this point) absurd.

Doesn't mean it's true, just that there's enough evidence that it is plausible.
I think given that the actual source has not been identified, it's as good a theory as any, so should not be dismissed as a conspiracy theory.

Not that it actually makes any difference, regardless of how nobody is ever likely to find out anyway.

[TheDemonLord]

I think given that the actual source has not been identified, it's as good a theory as any, so should not be dismissed as a conspiracy theory.

Not that it actually makes any difference, regardless of how nobody is ever likely to find out anyway.

It's just another instance of something that whilst may or may not be true at a particular point in time had more than enough circumstantial evidence to be plausible.

Yet was declared verboten and any mention of it on Social Media was grounds for censure, any public reference was derided as Conspiracy (see the original quote) despite the obvious.

[pritch]

I think given that the actual source has not been identified, it's as good a theory as any, so should not be dismissed as a conspiracy theory.

Not that it actually makes any difference, regardless of how nobody is ever likely to find out anyway.

Hard to say. Apparently the outbreak of the Spanish Flu of a century ago was traced to a pig farm in Kansas. How they'd do that I have no idea.

[TheDemonLord]

Hard to say. Apparently the outbreak of the Spanish Flu of a century ago was traced to a pig farm in Kansas. How they'd do that I have no idea.

There is much debate as to whether it came from there - however the first documented case was in Kansas, in a Military barracks and subsequent genome sequencing (later on in the 20th century) confirmed it's source from Pigs - and there was a pig farm that supplied the Military barracks where the first documented case was.

Hence the theory it originated from there.

Not very iron-clad, but still fascinating bit of detective work.

[R650R]

What “science” had to say in 1999...


https://rumble.com/v1dl3lb-fauci-flashback-on-the-aids-vaccine-in-1999.html

Anthony Fauci on the AIDS vaccine in 1999:

"You take it and then a year goes by and everybody is fine. And then you say, okay that's good, now let's give it to 500 people, and then a year goes by and everything is fine. Well now let's give it to thousands of people and then you find out that it takes twelve years for all hell to break loose and then what have you done?"

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/09/people-in-their-30s-and-40s-more-likely-to-die-in-the-prime-of-their-lives-and-no-one-knows-why/

[pete376403]

What “science” had to say in 1999...


https://rumble.com/v1dl3lb-fauci-flashback-on-the-aids-vaccine-in-1999.html

Anthony Fauci on the AIDS vaccine in 1999:

"You take it and then a year goes by and everybody is fine. And then you say, okay that's good, now let's give it to 500 people, and then a year goes by and everything is fine. Well now let's give it to thousands of people and then you find out that it takes twelve years for all hell to break loose and then what have you done?"

Hmmm. Google that phrase and the only place it show is conspiracy / anti vax and the like sites.

[george formby]

Hmmm. Google that phrase and the only place it show is conspiracy / anti vax and the like sites.

Yup, situation normal in the alternative reality.

[R650R]

Hmmm. Google that phrase and the only place it show is conspiracy / anti vax and the like sites.

Are you agreeing with conspiracy theorists then that mainstream news won’t report stuff that does t fit their narrative. Watch the vid and see the man himself say it....

Anyhow Jackie has finally read the temp of the room and moved to scrap masks and traffic light system. Absolutely nothing to do with an election year approaching and national/act success in polls.
You could see she wasn’t totally thrilled about announcing it either....

[onearmedbandit]

Are you agreeing with conspiracy theorists then that mainstream news won’t report stuff that does t fit their narrative. Watch the vid and see the man himself say it....



Here's the transcript from that show. You won't have to scroll down far to see the quote you posted. And who said it.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2603aids.html

[MarkH]

Here's the transcript from that show. You won't have to scroll down far to see the quote you posted. And who said it.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2603aids.html

Once again proving that R650R is a source of misinformation. Fauci didn't say it. They mention great success of vaccines against viruses, but not so much against retro-viruses in particular - this therefore doesn't apply to coronaviruses like the one that causes Covid 19 (SARS-CoV-2).

I trust the smart people (scientists), not dumb people (R650R)!

[TheDemonLord]

I trust the smart people (scientists), not dumb people (R650R)!

Oh, you mean like Nobel Prize winners like David Baltimore? Those Scientists?

To be clear, I have very little dog in this particular fight and OneArmedBandit posted the correct transcript, it's clear it was a Panel that Fauci was on, but the quote was not from Fauci.

However, the quote was from an actual scientist - in fact an extremely well qualified Scientist - to quote Wikipedia:


Baltimore has profoundly influenced international science, including key contributions to immunology, virology, cancer research, biotechnology, and recombinant DNA research

And so yes, the websites that report it as a Fauci quote should correct it (probably won't) - but in the same breath, although the attribution is slightly incorrect, it was still a statement, made by a Nobel prize winning Scientist who specialized in the relevant fields of study - and as such should be taken seriously.

[pritch]

Watch the vid and see the man himself say it....


I recently listened to an interview with Fauci looking back over his career as he retired. You have one video that says one thing, but you need to understand there will likely be another that says something else. Lessons were learned, things changed.

Fauci was commenting on the early days of the AIDS epidemic. The initial research was proceeding with all the normal caution applied to new medicines. Fauci eventually realised that people were dying in increasing numbers while science moved at snails pace. In response they took the brakes off and put the approval programme on fast forward. Having learned from that experience they could do similar when COVID reared its head.

Some people like to whitter on about the "experimental" mRNA technology. Scientists have been working on that since the 1960s. How long do the idiots want?

In this country we have people who lie to try and make something of the fact that the government intially opposed public wearing masks, then later made it compulsory.
This is supposed to prove something. All it proves is that intially there were not enough masks to go around so the government kept them for medical staff. Whe masks became available then the public wefe told to weat=r them.

All this ant vaxxer and conspiracy bollocks gives the idiots something to think about while they await the return of JFK Jr I guess.:rolleyes:

[mulletman]

A snippet of what Bloomfield said about masks back then , dont think availability was the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlr_oBAx3S4

[pritch]

A snippet of what Bloomfield said about masks back then , dont think availability was the issue.


Evidently he did say that at one point. The story changed as they learned. Availability was absolutely an issue. Initially here were enough masks in the country for the few medical staff who normally use them, not for the whole population.

[husaberg]

A snippet of what Bloomfield said about masks back then , dont think availability was the issue.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlr_oBAx3S4

Maybe you might want to add context
https://www.health.govt.nz/news-media/news-items/covid-19-media-update-27-may

[Ocean1]

Evidently he did say that at one point. The story changed as they learned. Availability was absolutely an issue. Initially here were enough masks in the country for the few medical staff who normally use them, not for the whole population.

I do know that a bulk supply of masks in storage for years and years was deployed to DHBs, only for it to be discovered that the straps were all degraded to the point they were useless. Given the propensity for politicians to selectively quote information I have no doubt that contributed to the confused messages around what was available at the time.

[R650R]

Fluff news does some statistical gymnastics here to play the racial inequality card. Have a read and let your head spin...

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300690228/the-shocking-stats-that-prove-covid19-does-not-kill-equally

Of interest at the start (and they upfront say stats are the official died of not with covid deaths) is that 89% of ALL virus deaths were aged over 70 which of course was kept a secret earlier on due to medical “privacy”....

[pritch]

Of interest at the start (and they upfront say stats are the official died of not with covid deaths) is that 89% of ALL virus deaths were aged over 70 which of course was kept a secret earlier on due to medical “privacy”....

That's not how I remember it. Every time the figures were published on the COVID website, for a long time that was daily, the details included the number of deaths, the area they lived, the age, and gender of the victims.

[jato]

An interesting read from an american doc... plenty of links to support his observations. https://drturner.substack.com/p/losing-my-vaccine-religion-a-doctors?utm_source=substack&utm_campaign=post_embed&utm_medium=email&fbclid=IwAR0_CXsqHBa89Uz_QCok6JeSuwndc4-I46yvkFWWEKa3kn0l0atRLERwWyo

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnxlxzxoZx0

Now, I seem to recall someone (can't think who...) that pointed this out when the Government were rolling out the Vaccine Passports (the most immoral and illiberal thing done by a Western Government to it's own people in my lifetime) - and how the evidence that the Vaccine had any meaningful impact on Transmission was dubious at best.

Time is being awfully generous to me.

[mashman]

How Twitter Rigged the Covid Debate (https://www.thefp.com/p/how-twitter-rigged-the-covid-debate)... and not just twitter, but the entire mainstream media and the bulk of social media doing it for your own good.

Duty of Care my hairy ass.

[SaferRides]

If anything, it was probably worse here. There was almost nothing in the local media that deviated from the "official" messaging.


Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pete376403]

Funny how all the covid-conspiracy stuff comes from people who are still alive...

[TheDemonLord]

Funny how all the covid-conspiracy stuff comes from people who are still alive...

I know right! Almost like it has a 99% survival rate!

[pete376403]

I know right! Almost like it has a 99% survival rate!

Which must be cold comfort to the families of the 6.68 million who have died of it. https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+deaths+worldwide+to+date&oq=Covid+deaths+worldwide&aqs=chrome.1.0i131i433i512j0i512l9.9205j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

[F5 Dave]

Ahh, they were all going to die of old age at some stage anyway, so they dont count.

:rolleyes:

[TheDemonLord]

Which must be cold comfort to the families of the 6.68 million who have died of it. https://www.google.com/search?q=covid+deaths+worldwide+to+date&oq=Covid+deaths+worldwide&aqs=chrome.1.0i131i433i512j0i512l9.9205j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Just two points - looking at the Google stats, the Death count includes cases and probable cases.

Which, if we jog our memories back a wee while when a certain TDL pointed out how dishonest the NZ Stats reporting was, followed by ridicule, followed by the Government changing the reporting due to the very reasons I pointed out, have the potential to be greatly exaggerated - that is 'Died with Covid' being reported as 'Died from Covid'.

So the real number is likely to be much lower.

The second point is that from what we know of the disease - the vast majority of those deaths are:

- 60+
- Have significant co-morbidities

Whether that's Breathing issues, Weight issues, long term substance use issues or other issues.

Call me callous all you want, but I don't think the straw should shoulder the entire blame for breaking the Camel's back.

Nor, as it turns out, has it justified all the problems that the tyrannical covid responses (that were based on either lies or rushed research).

[TheDemonLord]

Ahh, they were all going to die of old age at some stage anyway, so they dont count.

Do you know of anyone who has lived forever?

No?

Then perhaps it's not entirely silly to suggest that we shouldn't ruin our entire way of life in the pursuit of immortality.

[husaberg]

Ahh, they were all going to die of old age at some stage anyway, so they dont count.

:rolleyes:


A recent estimate gives excess mortality for the world attributable to COVID-19 of 20.6 million, and for the USA 1.2 million. So almost four times as many people have died of COVID-19 worldwide as the official figures suggest.
n New Zealand, at least 2,300 FEWER people have died than expected “under normal circumstances” over the course of the pandemic! Because of the public health measures applied and the high degree of compliance with the measures, deaths from other causes have declined. We have saved lives rather than lost them. Another way of looking at this is to consider life expectancy – at what age do we expect the “typical person” to die? This is more complicated to calculate and can only be determined retrospectively. Over recent decades life expectancy in New Zealand and around the world has been rising steadily due to improved health of the population. But in a recent study that evaluated 37 countries, life expectancy in the United States and Russia fell by two years between 2018 and 2020, due to the effects of the COVID pandemic. In 30 other countries life expectancy also fell, but by smaller amounts, and three countries had no change. Only two countries had an increase in life expectancy over that period - New Zealand gained 8 months and Taiwan 4 months.
Despite doomsayers claiming that the control measures applied by New Zealand would be very damaging to the economy, it has in fact rebounded from the initial global impact of the pandemic far better than countries which adopted less intensive measures, and has achieved high growth in real GDP and the lowest unemployment rate ever recorded in the country.

So New Zealand has managed to achieve both an outstanding result in saving the community from many thousands of deaths from COVID which would have occurred if a relaxed approach had been adopted as proposed by critics and commentators throughout the pandemic, and economic performance through the pandemic has been very favourable, under difficult circumstances.


Professor Professor Emeritus Roger Morris is an epidemiologist and economist who has contributed to disease control in over 50 countries, and has trained epidemiologists in Africa and across Asia how to respond to emerging diseases.

Professor Emeritus Masey University
Massey University’s highest honour, the Massey Medal.
Gilruth Professor of Animal Health and Director
Clinical and Population Sciences Minneapolis, United States
University of Reading Epidemiology and economics
BVS Hons from the University of Sydney
(FRSNZ) who have been elected to our Academy for distinction in research or for advancing science, technology and the humanities
(CNZM) NZ order of merit

Professor Morris is one of the world's preeminent veterinary epidemiologists. “Given the importance of animal diseases to the export receipts and public health of New Zealanders, the country has been fortunate to have him provide us with the benefit of his knowledge and experience for over 28 years.”

Professor Morris graduated with a Bachelor of Veterinary Science with Honours from the University of Sydney in 1966 and worked at the the University of Melbourne and the University of Minnesota. In 1986, he was appointed Professor of Animal Health at Massey, where he established the globally recognised EpiCentre, a research, consultancy and training centre in epidemiology, biosecurity, food safety and animal health based at Manawatū.

His international reputation was a key factor in Massey winning a $15 million contract from the World Bank and European Union to develop and teach a "One Health" master's degree programme for health professionals across South Asia, in response to the outbreak of H5N1 avian influenza.

He has undertaken hundreds of international consultancies for world governments and major health organisations such as the World Health Organisation and the Food and Agriculture Organisation of the United Nations. He was an adviser to the British government during outbreaks of Bovine spongiform encephalopathy (mad cow disease), foot-and-mouth and avian influenza (bird flu).

In 2003, he was made a Companion of the New Zealand Order of Merit for services to veterinary science. He is a Fellow of the Royal Society of New Zealand, the Australian College of Veterinary Scientists in Epidemiology and the American College of Epidemiology. He has supervised more than 200 doctoral and master's students and written more than 200 scientific papers.

The EpiCentre is an OIE (World Organisation for Animal Health) Collaborating Centre for Epidemiology and Public Health. It is the only such centre in the Asia-Pacific region.

The centre conducts active research in the areas of geographical information systems (GIS), expert systems, multivariate analysis and simulation modelling. It’s active in field work with humans, production animals, companion animals and wildlife in New Zealand, and provides consultancy services and training courses in epidemiology throughout the world.

He is currently consulting for the World Bank on avian influenza projects in Bhutan, China, India, Laos and Mongolia.
All up he is an infinitely superior human than TDL far more qualified than TDL will ever be.
But watch how TDL Dunning krugers himself that he knows more than a epidemiologist and universiy educated ecomonist ie an actual expert the same as he has claimed previously with the NZ mental health foundation the NZ court, the US supreme court us Disyticy court judges and the FBI

[TheDemonLord]

Professor Roger Morris is an epidemiologist and economist who has contributed to disease control in over 50 countries, and has trained epidemiologists in Africa and across Asia how to respond to emerging diseases.

That Article was written at the beginning of the year

Now we are seeing the real impacts, and on the economic front - Professor Roger is full of Shit.

Which draws dire inferences on the rest of his claims.

[SaferRides]

Well, the last day of 2022. It's difficult to think that all of the vaccination drama happened only a year ago.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[TheDemonLord]

All up he is an infinitely superior human than TDL far more qualified than TDL will ever be.

Isn't it curious that after I pointed out his Economics predictions were full of Crap, you updated your post to include all his accomplishments.

Certainly, he is a very industrious individual.

However, I can't help but notice there's a word that keeps popping up in your post...

"Veterinary"

Which curiously you omitted before.

Now, granted, I'm neither a Biologist nor an Epidemiologist - but something tells me that the distinction in epidemiology between Human and Animal has something to do with the differences between Human interaction and Animal interaction.

A difference which, in some circumstances, means that Professor Roger is not the authority that you are painting him as.

Another thing that pops out is the company he keeps - World Bank, EU, WHO. Given the behavior of some of those entities of late, especially around COVID, I think my initial assessment that the good Professor is Biased and singing from the songsheet of his Masters was not only accurate, but justified.

Afterall - I'm only the guy that did, in fact, know more about Covid death stats than the New Zealand government ;)

[mashman]

Well, the last day of 2022. It's difficult to think that all of the vaccination drama happened only a year ago.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Oh it's still happening... and it's still not being reported on for people to make informed decisions. (https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD)

[SaferRides]

Oh it's still happening... and it's still not being reported on for people to make informed decisions. (https://twitter.com/P_McCulloughMD)It's been interesting enough hearing people's Covid and vaccination experiences. [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[mashman]

It's been interesting enough hearing people's Covid and vaccination experiences. [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

That UK fella Dr John Campbell has finally gotten to a point of calling for a halt in its use. The silence is deafening.

[husaberg]

That UK fella Dr John Campbell has finally gotten to a point of calling for a halt in its use. The silence is deafening.
Mashy, out of interest what sort of doctor is DR JOHN.
hint he's a nurse..... with a teaching phd degree.
He was one of those ones that lead a misinformation scampaign about ivermectin being a covid cure. was he in any way correct?
He also claimed that the phizer vaccine had killed over 1000 people did he have any evidence then or now?

[F5 Dave]

Doesn't matter. Kunts like Fathead just find a narrative of disinformation that makes them feel empowered because of their sad inconsequential lives, as if they were somehow smarter than actual academics.

But the problem is vulnerable people read that shit. So fucking great work you Incel.

[mashman]

Doesn't matter. Kunts like Fathead just find a narrative of disinformation that makes them feel empowered because of their sad inconsequential lives, as if they were somehow smarter than actual academics.

But the problem is vulnerable people read that shit. So fucking great work you Incel.

Interesting way to respond to scientific findings. Maybe you're everything you accuse me... anyway, have another drink dave, ignore the scientific evidence, it's worked for you so far.

[mashman]

Mashy, out of interest what sort of doctor is DR JOHN.
hint he's a nurse..... with a teaching phd degree.
He was one of those ones that lead a misinformation scampaign about ivermectin being a covid cure. was he in any way correct?
He also claimed that the phizer vaccine had killed over 1000 people did he have any evidence then or now?

Happy new year. You should've watched the video you fucking idiot... as well as kept up with the evidence that's been kept hidden from the public from the beginning, but hey, you're still a fucking idiot.

[husaberg]

Happy new year. You should've watched the video you fucking idiot... as well as kept up with the evidence that's been kept hidden from the public from the beginning, but hey, you're still a fucking idiot.
Realty like the voters of Mana electorate totally disagree with your opinions.
You could always just answer the questions.


That UK fella Dr John Campbell has finally gotten to a point of calling for a halt in its use. The silence is deafening.
Mashy, out of interest what sort of doctor is DR JOHN.
hint he's a nurse..... with a teaching phd degree.
He was one of those ones that lead a misinformation scampaign about ivermectin being a covid cure. was he in any way correct?
He also claimed that the phizer vaccine had killed over 1000 people did he have any evidence then or now?


NOTE
Findings In this open-label randomized clinical trial of high-risk patients with COVID-19 in Malaysia, a 5-day course of oral ivermectin administered during the first week of illness did not reduce the risk of developing severe disease compared with standard of care alone.

Meaning The study findings do not support the use of ivermectin for patients with COVID-19.

https://scontent.fchc2-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/274077639_5084117138277203_6810851916245002872_n.j pg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=IJ-v6tENsnIAX9VGDfM&_nc_ht=scontent.fchc2-1.fna&oh=00_AfAC-LVYsuPRJXjuB7fooNEyz00FBDgA6wANW6mWAHPMYw&oe=63B63C5D

[R650R]

Well, the last day of 2022. It's difficult to think that all of the vaccination drama happened only a year ago.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

In my workplace and others it’s still doing the rounds even amongst the “ boosted”. Funny read article other day in nz something like 30,000 new cases a day and were just getting on with life fine and dandy.
Just like on day one it affects some worse than others and the govt has finally come around the the way of thought many of us had from start, you can’t hide from it.

[husaberg]

In my workplace and others it’s still doing the rounds even amongst the “ boosted”. Funny read article other day in nz something like 30,000 new cases a day and were just getting on with life fine and dandy.
Just like on day one it affects some worse than others and the govt has finally come around the the way of thought many of us had from start, you can’t hide from it.

Only if you willfully gloss over the fact we are at about substantially weakened covid version 7 or so plus benefit from both natural immunity and vaccines lessening the effects as our body can now recognise it.

We remember you said some pretty stupid stuff during the pandemic. it was stupid then and hasn't improved with age.


It’s not rocket science you muppets....

The rebranded lockdown has made going out anywhere a misery with this mask and scanning bullshit plus with the added bonus of a torture test if someone had the sniffles at same venue.

So it seems lots of people are like me.... abandoning spontaneous shopping/bar/cafe trips and only going out when they really need too.
Cafe vs home coffee machine/sachet
Movie theatre vs Netflix/YouTube
Bar vs bottle store and drinking on deck at home

The no mask no scan option wins every time


https://youtu.be/kAtx1iglz_s


The Covid tracer app stops the spread of the virus just as effectively as mandatory carrying of drivers licence stops unlicensed drivers from driving cars.

It’s kinda pointless though really, Jacinda has just demonstrated how willing the govt is to plunge the country into draconian lockdowns again for a few cases...
Now if EVERYONE in the current outbreak had scanned the SAME amount of people would be infected, the virus doesn’t care if your Bluetooth is on or not.
The resulting lockdown would prob be worse as with two deg of separation in modern society it would prob show even more people at risk of infection spreading...

But I guess we’ll all find that out soon enough when they decree it mandatory to scan everywhere


I think we will actually end up having a major second wave next year...
The only places not having second waves are likes of Sweden which achieved herd immunity/exposure. All the countries that did what we did are experiencing second waves, only thing saving us at moment from it is essentially our iron curtain closed border, eventually we have to reopen that...
What’s really saved us is NZ’s lovely winter sunshine and easy access to clean outdoor air and a massive lack of public transport systems.


Different forever, Jacinda already said that. No political party has EVER given away control mechanisms or restrictions.
Soon they will make it LAW that you have to have the covid app to buy food or do anything.
You will HAVE to carry your phone (your papers) EVERYWHERE or risk prison/fines.
Crims will love knowing that you DO have your phone on you. Phones will be worth more per ounce than drugs as contact tracing eliminates burner phone access that crimes survive on.


Wartime rations is a poor analogy, you still had relatively freedom of movement and association.
Hell poor people ration things still today! BTW poor Is the 70% of NZ that earn less than the average national wage.

22 NZ dead from virus, please remind me how many died in WW2, Vietnam or even a busy holiday weekend road toll?


There’s two ways this pans out... the virus magically mostly disappears and we return to some form of normal rampant consumerism after being tattooed/implanted with bill gates digital ID2020 social/vaccine passport
Certificate
Of
Vaccination
I
D

Covid

Or this virus turns out to be as nasty as they say it is. Then we have at least three years living under full blown communism to control spread til it naturally mutates itself out of existence as all virus strains do. This will be a major worldwide depression and everyone will be off to workcamps in exchange for food as all western economies will be crippled by the early welfare dolled out to “keep the economy going”

One thing Is for sure either way, given the chance of a crisis govt will pass new laws and taxes to “save us”.... next election will be very interesting


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...


The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster

[mulletman]

The BBC discussing with a Cardiologist mRNA vaccines and heart disease, starts off talking about statins

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JkBt25XZ0NU

[mr bucketracer]

Theres more evidence in here than all the dooms day books put together !!!

[mashman]

Damn that nurse guy knows way more than he should according this no mark Aussie fella from down the pub that he's having a chat with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMyERFBdB4E

[mr bucketracer]

Damn that nurse guy knows way more than he should according this no mark Aussie fella from down the pub that he's having a chat with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMyERFBdB4Eglad you posted this video. Been watching Dr John from the start.

[mashman]

glad you posted this video. Been watching Dr John from the start.

Bugga about the time difference screwing the conversation, coz it looked like there were a few other things to be said along certain lines that never quite got discussed. I figured McCulloughs stuff would be a little too hard to handle v's Dr J's softly softly approach. I wonder if we'll ever see Dr J go postal, coz I suspect that that would be a spectacular thing to see given the look on his face and the fire in his eyes at times. Must be so fucking frustrating that the people are against you when the science is for you.

[mr bucketracer]

Bugga about the time difference screwing the conversation, coz it looked like there were a few other things to be said along certain lines that never quite got discussed. I figured McCulloughs stuff would be a little too hard to handle v's Dr J's softly softly approach. I wonder if we'll ever see Dr J go postal, coz I suspect that that would be a spectacular thing to see given the look on his face and the fire in his eyes at times. Must be so fucking frustrating that the people are against you when the science is for you.agree. Looks like everyone has done a runner in here ha ha

[mashman]

agree. Looks like everyone has done a runner in here ha ha

Where is their champion?
Is there any prominent authority who is pro-vax who knows the data and is willing to defend the government narrative on tape? Who is it? All the people we've ask to debate us "on camera" turn us down.
(https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/where-is-their-champion)

The peer-reviewed evidence states that our current Duty of Care lies in stopping the use of the jab. Bit awkward that one eh... we know just how fiery and proud people can get when defending their Duty of Care, you know, for others.

Wonder if they'd do it again, please? Turns out we were lied to and we've done more harm than good... and continue to do so.

(much scrolling to get the sign-up box out of the way to read it through... or you can make the box, and overlay, disappear if you change the css of the elements)

[mashman]

Global excess mortality meeting the Bradford Hill criteria. NZ's Covid stats "Lamentable".


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av4Ej6om0WI

[mashman]

A Victory for Dr. Peter McCullough is a Victory For All Physicians and Patients (https://ip4pi.wordpress.com/2023/02/02/a-victory-for-dr-peter-mccullough-is-a-victory-for-all-physicians-and-patients/)

Took its time to get to court for some reason, hmmmmmmm. Surely it should have been easy to prove that he wasn't 'curing' people way before any talk of a vaccine. Alas, when the evidence is not in your favour, just reach for penis size and the ability to pleasure a woman to excuse that you ignored the evidence entirely and let people die needlessly. Not an easy thing to have to live with, plenty of you vaccinated people pointed that out to us unvaccinated as an outcome we were ready to wear, and we squared it away honourably. Dumb people don't know how to back down, murderers double down and keep beating a drum that is evidenced to be killing and harming people to extents that those who are looking into these thing still aren't sure as to when it'll end, or even if.... but hey, you;re fine, right?

"In a tremendous win that is truly a victory for all Americans who believe in open and honest debate and science, Dallas County Judge Tahira Khan Merritt on January 23, 2023 dismissed a Texas hospital’s lawsuit that sought to punish Dr. Peter McCullough for sharing his concerns about COVID, early treatment, and vaccine safety and efficacy.

By dismissing the suit “with prejudice,” the ruling supports the pleas of over 14,000 patients and doctors who stood with Dr. McCullough and added their names to a petition denouncing the hospital’s (Baylor, Scott, and White) attack: "

"The hospital sued Dr. McCullough for more than $1 million, reported Dallas ABC affiliate WFAA. McCullough’s attorney, Clinton Mikel told WFAA that the lawsuit is “frivolous” and a “politically motivated attempt to silence Dr. McCullough as he saves countless patient lives from Covid-19 and from ancillary actions related to Covid-19.”"

[husaberg]

A Victory for Dr. Peter McCullough is a Victory For All Physicians and Patients (https://ip4pi.wordpress.com/2023/02/02/a-victory-for-dr-peter-mccullough-is-a-victory-for-all-physicians-and-patients/)

Took its time to get to court for some reason, hmmmmmmm. Surely it should have been easy to prove that he wasn't 'curing' people way before any talk of a vaccine. Alas, when the evidence is not in your favour, just reach for penis size and the ability to pleasure a woman to excuse that you ignored the evidence entirely and let people die needlessly. Not an easy thing to have to live with, plenty of you vaccinated people pointed that out to us unvaccinated as an outcome we were ready to wear, and we squared it away honourably. Dumb people don't know how to back down, murderers double down and keep beating a drum that is evidenced to be killing and harming people to extents that those who are looking into these thing still aren't sure as to when it'll end, or even if.... but hey, you;re fine, right?

"In a tremendous win that is truly a victory for all Americans who believe in open and honest debate and science, Dallas County Judge Tahira Khan Merritt on January 23, 2023 dismissed a Texas hospital’s lawsuit that sought to punish Dr. Peter McCullough for sharing his concerns about COVID, early treatment, and vaccine safety and efficacy.


By dismissing the suit “with prejudice,” the ruling supports the pleas of over 14,000 patients and doctors who stood with Dr. McCullough and added their names to a petition denouncing the hospital’s (Baylor, Scott, and White) attack: "

"The hospital sued Dr. McCullough for more than $1 million, reported Dallas ABC affiliate WFAA. McCullough’s attorney, Clinton Mikel told WFAA that the lawsuit is “frivolous” and a “politically motivated attempt to silence Dr. McCullough as he saves countless patient lives from Covid-19 and from ancillary actions related to Covid-19.”"

Mashy instead of posting drivel why dont you actually read the case, it was settled it doesn't say by whom, i could just as easily mean he paid the hospital the case was about the dr representing himself to be affiliated with the hospital not with the made up shit he still posts about covid being created in a lab and of unproven cures.
https://thetexan.news/lawsuit-against-dr-peter-mccullough-by-baylor-scott-white-dismissed/


A lawsuit alleging that McCullough had violated a separation agreement with Baylor Scott & White has been settled and dismissed with prejudice.
A Dallas County District Court has accepted an order of nonsuit and voluntary dismissal of claims in the Baylor Scott & White Health (BSWH) lawsuit against Dr. Peter A. McCullough.In 2021, Baylor filed suit against McCullough alleging he had violated their separation agreement by “claiming he is affiliated” with the institution in media interviews.

The case was dismissed with prejudice on January 23. Dismissal with prejudice means no lawsuit arising from the same set of facts can be filed by the parties again.

“We take very seriously our responsibility to be a trusted source of information in the communities we serve,” a spokesperson for BSWH wrote to The Texan. “Dr. McCullough is not an employee and has agreed to not represent himself as such. As a result, both parties mutually agreed in late January to dismiss all actions.”

Voluntary dismissal of claims with prejudice are usually entered after a settlement agreement has been reached.

On January 17, the parties filed a notice of nonsuit and voluntary dismissal stating, “The [p]arties have reached a resolution to the satisfaction of both parties.”

What you are not seeing is the "dr" still claiming he was entitled to say hes afiliated with the medical institution.....hint hint hes not... which is what the case was about so how again is that a victory for the doctor ,if it was he would still be claiming to be affiliated with the hospital.
Hint hes not....
The very fact you are and the conspiracy idiots are attempting to claim this as a victory about anything else of what he said about covid clearly delusional.

[F5 Dave]

I mean, everyone thinks mashy is a moron. Do you think he is trying to portray himself like that? or is it accidental?

I'm thinking it is some sort of sexual deprivation thing where he has to humiliate himself in front of his master.

[TheDemonLord]

https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD006207.pub6/epdf/full


Medical/surgical masks compared to no masks We included 12 trials (10 cluster-RCTs) comparing medical/surgical masks versus no masks to prevent the spread of viral respiratory illness (two trials with healthcare workers and 10 in the community). Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of influenza-like illness (ILI)/COVID-19 like illness compared to not wearing masks (risk ratio (RR) 0.95, 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.84 to 1.09; 9 trials, 276,917 participants; moderate-certainty evidence. Wearing masks in the community probably makes little or no difference to the outcome of laboratory-confirmed influenza/SARS-CoV-2 compared to not wearing masks (RR 1.01, 95% CI 0.72 to 1.42; 6 trials, 13,919 participants; moderate-certainty evidence). Harms were rarely measured and poorly reported (very low-certainty evidence).

So, not only did I know more about Stats than the NZ Government, turns out I was right about Masks too.

And for all those Maskholes who implicitly or explicitly accused me of all manner of things, My good friend Razorfist expresses it best...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ta7nDCOPR7g

[mashman]

Transcript;

Dr. James Thorp: The Pushing Of The Experimental COVID Vaccines Is The Greatest Violation Of Medical Ethics In History
Posted By Tyler Stone
On Date February 24, 2023

On 'Tucker Carlson Tonight,' Dr. James Thorp spoke about the effects of the coronavirus vaccines.

"First of all, thank you very much for giving my patients a voice, my views are not shared by my employer, maybe not. Let's start out, one can make a very strong argument, Tucker, that the pushing of these experimental COVID-19 vaccines globally is the greatest violation of medical ethics in the history of medicine, maybe humanity. We have never ever broken the sacrosanct golden rule of pregnancy, never ever."

"I have published extensively in my career and extensively in the last three years all on COVID," he said. "What we have seen, this article, we are honored that I hear it is going to be a lead featured article in a major peer-reviewed medical journal, which will be published, God willing, March 1st. Let me set the scenario, what we did is we compared the COVID-19 vaccine adverse events over 18 months with that of the influenza vaccine over 282 months."

"Now Tucker, the FDA and the CDC, this is governmental data, they use a danger threshold. We did it exactly by their recommendations of two fold or greater is abnormal. What you said is true. We found a 1200 fold increase in severe menstrual abnormalities, a 57 fold increase in miscarriage, a 38 fold increase in fetal death or stillbirth rates. We found 15 other major pregnancy complications, all far exceeding the CDC and the FDA values of safety. What we have is I can produce more than 30 other completely independent sources globally that corroborate exactly our findings, Tucker. And if that is not bad enough, this includes Pfizer's own internal data," Thorp told Carlson.

----------------------------------------

Yes, it was him and Yeadon that pointed out, in a single line observation, that there was a concern with one of the ingredients in the vaccine that might muck with a ladies internals a bit. Something they were lambasted for with a barrage of sensationalist headlines of lies about what they hadn't stated. Kind of like Dave when he's on the piss. Anyhoo, it turns out that they may have had good cause for concern... which is odd given that Pfizers data stated that all was well. But hey, it's only women.

[husaberg]

Transcript;

Dr. James Thorp: The Pushing Of The Experimental COVID Vaccines Is The Greatest Violation Of Medical Ethics In History
Posted By Tyler Stone
On Date February 24, 2023

On 'Tucker Carlson Tonight,' Dr. James Thorp spoke about the effects of the coronavirus vaccines.

"First of all, thank you very much for giving my patients a voice, my views are not shared by my employer, maybe not. Let's start out, one can make a very strong argument, Tucker, that the pushing of these experimental COVID-19 vaccines globally is the greatest violation of medical ethics in the history of medicine, maybe humanity. We have never ever broken the sacrosanct golden rule of pregnancy, never ever."

"I have published extensively in my career and extensively in the last three years all on COVID," he said. "What we have seen, this article, we are honored that I hear it is going to be a lead featured article in a major peer-reviewed medical journal, which will be published, God willing, March 1st. Let me set the scenario, what we did is we compared the COVID-19 vaccine adverse events over 18 months with that of the influenza vaccine over 282 months."

"Now Tucker, the FDA and the CDC, this is governmental data, they use a danger threshold. We did it exactly by their recommendations of two fold or greater is abnormal. What you said is true. We found a 1200 fold increase in severe menstrual abnormalities, a 57 fold increase in miscarriage, a 38 fold increase in fetal death or stillbirth rates. We found 15 other major pregnancy complications, all far exceeding the CDC and the FDA values of safety. What we have is I can produce more than 30 other completely independent sources globally that corroborate exactly our findings, Tucker. And if that is not bad enough, this includes Pfizer's own internal data," Thorp told Carlson.

----------------------------------------

Yes, it was him and Yeadon that pointed out, in a single line observation, that there was a concern with one of the ingredients in the vaccine that might muck with a ladies internals a bit. Something they were lambasted for with a barrage of sensationalist headlines of lies about what they hadn't stated. Kind of like Dave when he's on the piss. Anyhoo, it turns out that they may have had good cause for concern... which is odd given that Pfizers data stated that all was well. But hey, it's only women.

your sourse
"COVID-19 vaccine adverse events over 18 months with that of the influenza vaccine over 282 months."

reality

An adverse event is any health problem that occurred after vaccination, regardless of whether the vaccine caused it. This is different from a vaccine side effect, which has been established to be caused by the vaccine

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/multiple-studies-show-covid-19-vaccines-dont-cause-pregnancy-fertility-problems-epoch-times/


Conclusion
Misinformation linking COVID-19 vaccines with pregnancy and fertility problems has been pervasive throughout the pandemic. However, such claims have no fundamental basis in scientific evidence. Current evidence from research studies and vaccine safety surveillance shows that COVID-19 vaccines don’t impair fertility and are safe during pregnancy. COVID-19 vaccines are effective at preventing severe illness, and are particularly important for pregnant women, who are more likely to develop severe COVID-19 compared to non-pregnant women. COVID-19 also increases the risk of pregnancy complications compared to pregnant women without COVID-19. This means that getting vaccinated would reduce the risk of poor outcomes during pregnancy, not increase it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/11/scicheck-covid-19-vaccines-reduce-not-increase-risk-of-stillbirth/

[F5 Dave]

Mashman. Dickhead.

Why do you come here? You're not a motorcyclist.

And everyone thinks you post disinformation.

[husaberg]

And everyone thinks you post disinformation.
other than his wife and son (according to him of course)
We would have a KB vote but we all know he no longer feels votes are a accurate reflection on his abilities.....

[mashman]

Mashman. Dickhead.

Why do you come here? You're not a motorcyclist.

And everyone thinks you post disinformation.

Oh, Hi Master.

"I'm thinking it is some sort of sexual deprivation thing where he has to humiliate himself in front of his master." - Dave.

Not everyone considers replicated scientific findings disinformation. And anyone who denies themselves access to information because of the person posting it, let alone the source, is someone without knowledge. All that can be done then is to shoot the messenger... but Dave, you;re a really shit shot when you're drunk, I mean really really bad, you might kill someone with such shit judgement.

[husaberg]

Oh, Hi Master.

"I'm thinking it is some sort of sexual deprivation thing where he has to humiliate himself in front of his master." - Dave.

Not everyone considers replicated scientific findings disinformation. And anyone who denies themselves access to information because of the person posting it, let alone the source, is someone without knowledge. All that can be done then is to shoot the messenger... but Dave, you;re a really shit shot when you're drunk, I mean really really bad, you might kill someone with such shit judgement.

You are knowingly misrepresenting data....We have explained why...

https://healthfeedback.org/claimreview/multiple-studies-show-covid-19-vaccines-dont-cause-pregnancy-fertility-problems-epoch-times/

[Kendog]

Oh, Hi Master.

"I'm thinking it is some sort of sexual deprivation thing where he has to humiliate himself in front of his master." - Dave.

Not everyone considers replicated scientific findings disinformation. And anyone who denies themselves access to information because of the person posting it, let alone the source, is someone without knowledge. All that can be done then is to shoot the messenger... but Dave, you;re a really shit shot when you're drunk, I mean really really bad, you might kill someone with such shit judgement.

You continue to come here posting misleading information. And you wonder why you get all these negative messages.

[husaberg]

You continue to come here posting misleading information. And you wonder why you get all these negative messages.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ57jPXXmWWMpzTZLq_1FSYQoyDQmKtl LdCkQ&usqp=CAUhttps://i.pinimg.com/736x/e1/4c/ee/e14ceee294390e89d12ecc4944cb49a0.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

Question for certain people:

"Was it a Lab Leak?"

See, I personally don't know if it was a Lab Leak or not. However - I'm very much on the Bill Maher position that given there is a Lab that specializes in said category of diseases near where the first outbreak was identified, means that for me it was always a plausible theory.

Yet, it was vociferously derided as 'Misinformation' and 'a racist conspiracy theory', with people banned for suggesting it - yet now, the US Energy Department thinks it might have been a Lab Leak.


To be clear - I don't care if it is a Lab Leak or not - what I care about is the treatment that those who believed in what appeared to be a plausible theory (on face value) and were demonized for it.

[TheDemonLord]

Woahboy.

I hope all the Maskholes here are ready, because I've got some receipts.

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpubh.2023.1125150/full


Conclusion: Face mask side-effects must be assessed (risk-benefit) against the available evidence of their effectiveness against viral transmissions. In the absence of strong empirical evidence of effectiveness, mask wearing should not be mandated let alone enforced by law.

[onearmedbandit]

I’m awaiting the onslaught of memes from our resident google expert.

[TheDemonLord]

I’m awaiting the onslaught of memes from our resident google expert.

Well, he's got his usual 'TDL knows more about X than...' rant.

But so far - turns out that I:

1: Knew more about Covid Death stats than the NZ Government
2: Knew more about Vaccine and transmission efficacy than the NZ Government
3: Knew more about Masks than the NZ Government.

Either I'm a certifiable Genius (and to be fair - I'll take that) or...

The evidence was there all along and I just happened to read it properly.

Guess I wasn't just an asshole that wanted granny to die all along.

[neels]

Well, he's got his usual 'TDL knows more about X than...' rant.

But so far - turns out that I:

1: Knew more about Covid Death stats than the NZ Government
2: Knew more about Vaccine and transmission efficacy than the NZ Government
3: Knew more about Masks than the NZ Government.

Either I'm a certifiable Genius (and to be fair - I'll take that) or...

The evidence was there all along and I just happened to read it properly.

Guess I wasn't just an asshole that wanted granny to die all along.
Or...

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. - The benefit of hindsight, and not having any time pressure or responsibility to actually make a decision? - If you make enough statements about something, statistically some of them will turn out to be correct?

Regardless, you did propose that there should be no restrictions, and if the weak die so be it. Which is implicitly saying you don't care if granny dies, it's more important that your freedom isn't infringed.

[TheDemonLord]

Or...

Even a broken clock is right twice a day. - The benefit of hindsight, and not having any time pressure or responsibility to actually make a decision? - If you make enough statements about something, statistically some of them will turn out to be correct?

A bit more than twice a day - more like - on every major policy decision I was correct.

Lockdowns - Didn't have a meaningful impact, wrecked the economy,
Vaccines - Didn't stop transmission
Ahren Passes and a 2 tier society - No pragmatic justification and completely illiberal.
Masks - Didn't stop the virus and have a number of side effects.
Covid Death Stats - Reporting Died with Covid was causing a massive inflation of Covid Death stats.

As I said - I got some motherfucking Receipts here and I'd like some motherfucking refunds.

Edit: Okay - I'm gloating a bit (and I think I've got a bit of a right to) - but here's the thing - either you have to accept I'm some form of prescient genius to be consistently shown to be correct on these points or.... That the evidence was always there for anyone to read and was either dismissed, ignored, suppressed or otherwise not used by those making Policy. This isn't the benefit of Hindsight - because I said these things were stupid/wrong from day 1.


Regardless, you did propose that there should be no restrictions, and if the weak die so be it. Which is implicitly saying you don't care if granny dies, it's more important that your freedom isn't infringed.

You're right - I did say there should be no restrictions...

And that the individual should manage the risk for themselves as they saw fit. That means if Granny is concerned (as well she might) she can take the steps that she feels she needs to, to protect her health. Something I have never stopped anyone from doing.

It's such a key difference. To put it another way - when you drive a car or ride a bike - you are implicitly saying you don't care if you run granny over and she dies in much the same way.

That's kinda the key part here. If you go all the way back to the beginning - I said my threshold was if the fatality rate goes above 5% I would start to get concerned. At 0.01% - I think we are safe.

Yes - so long as Freedom (both yours and mine) isn't infringed. Because I happen to believe, quite sincerely, that a Free society creates the best outcome(s) in the long run, even if there are sometimes short-term losses.

Almost like there's a principle in there or something...

[sugilite]

I was going to award a win here with a hindsight caveat that Neels mentioned but then I noticed two things.
1. the conclusion has what I interpret to be a fairly personal opinion.
"Conclusion: Face mask side-effects must be assessed (risk-benefit) against the available evidence of their effectiveness against viral transmissions. In the absence of strong empirical evidence of effectiveness, mask wearing should not be mandated let alone enforced by law." Seems like someone has a barrow to push me thinks.
2. despite this paper being published 9 days ago, at the time of this post it has only had 104 views - an underwhelming response imo.

TDL victory lap with gloating rights? Declined - for now.

[TheDemonLord]

I was going to award a win here with a hindsight caveat that Neels mentioned but then I noticed two things.

1. the conclusion has what I interpret to be a fairly personal opinion.
"Conclusion: Face mask side-effects must be assessed (risk-benefit) against the available evidence of their effectiveness against viral transmissions. In the absence of strong empirical evidence of effectiveness, mask wearing should not be mandated let alone enforced by law." Seems like someone has a barrow to push me thinks.

I mean, sure - but then, by that same token, I could claim that the other side has a barrow to push also...

I would suspect that it's probably a direct response to all the politicization of Science making it harder to do proper science.


2. despite this paper being published 9 days ago, at the time of this post it has only had 104 views - an underwhelming response imo.

Indeed - I imagine people don't like being told they were illiberal totalitarians by smug assholes who they used to deride as conspiracy theorists.


TDL victory lap with gloating rights? Declined - for now.

It's all good - I've still got the one from the Government Stats whilst you wait for this to be proven.

[husaberg]

I was going to award a win here with a hindsight caveat that Neels mentioned but then I noticed two things.
1. the conclusion has what I interpret to be a fairly personal opinion.
"Conclusion: Face mask side-effects must be assessed (risk-benefit) against the available evidence of their effectiveness against viral transmissions. In the absence of strong empirical evidence of effectiveness, mask wearing should not be mandated let alone enforced by law." Seems like someone has a barrow to push me thinks.
2. despite this paper being published 9 days ago, at the time of this post it has only had 104 views - an underwhelming response imo.

TDL victory lap with gloating rights? Declined - for now.

Is someone trying to avoid the fact the masks were never mandated for those that had real medical exemption.....?
https://covid19.govt.nz/prepare-and-stay-safe/protect-yourself-and-others-from-covid-19/face-masks/advice-for-people-who-have-difficulties-wearing-a-face-mask/
Apply for a Mask Exemption Pass
Face masks are unsuitable for some people due to disabilities or health conditions.
A physical illness.
A mental illness.
A condition or disability.

[TheDemonLord]

Is someone trying to avoid the fact the masks were never mandated for those that had real medical exemption.....?

You do realize that your rebuttal makes no sense:

'Masks should have never been mandated for anyone'
'They weren't mandated if you had an exemption'

So, you prove they were mandated, those the conclusion of the study a valid critique.

[SaferRides]

Some interesting results when you search for "Frontiers Media credible"

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[husaberg]

Some interesting results when you search for "Frontiers Media credible"

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Those with long memories will remember how Katman used to use similar sources:clap::clap::clap:

[TheDemonLord]

Some interesting results when you search for "Frontiers Media credible"

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Sure, it's not Nature or The Lancet - however, it's a Meta-analysis of other studies - mostly being a load of stats - I had a quick look and most of the stats procedures look to be credible.

However, there are some interesting things that we can look at:

Firstly, the results are very similar to research done on Mask wearing after the Spanish flu.
Secondly, most of the negative results from pro-longed mask wearing aren't that bad (Acne, skin irritations, higher CO2 in the blood etc.) - this lines up with what we know about pro-longed mask wearing in other areas (e.g. Gas Masks/respirators). Although the implication that 'Long Covid' may have been due to wearing masks saturated with pathogens is hilarious.
Thirdly, and this is perhaps key, is that unlike those other areas - the claimed benefit of wearing a mask does not stack up in the public setting.

[TheDemonLord]

Those with long memories will remember how Katman used to use similar sources:clap::clap::clap:

Those with such long memories will also remember how I was proven correct about Government Stats.

[sugilite]

Slipping us a mickey in the form of an extremely long report with 2 obvious flaws at first glance, then going on a victory parade of one - you do realise that party poppers are single use right? Think of the planet man :facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

Slipping us a mickey in the form of an extremely long report with 2 obvious flaws at first glance, then going on a victory parade of one - you do realise that party poppers are single use right? Think of the planet man :facepalm:

The two flaws as you put it, aren't really flaws at all.

I mean - the first one - let's take it serious for the moment:

Imagine a pure hypothetical - where you have a deeply unpopular public policy that is enforced on the basis of, oh I dunno, 'Following the Science'.

That Science better be as close to 100% robust as possible.

Now, let's expand our purely hypothetical scenario - that in multiple instances, what was proported to be 'following the science' could be more accurately described as 'Following the Science that allows a grab of power' and 'Vilifying any science that runs contrary to our power grab' - again - purely off the top of my head.

What do you think that does to public trust in Science as an institution? What do you think that does for Scientists who might be trying to do contentious or unpopular study?

It's entirely reasonable for reputable scientists to be angry on behalf of their profession at how 'Following the Science' was used and abused during Covid. Does that mean the scientist doesn't have an Axe to grind - of course not. Scientists often do research on topics they are passionate about.

I mean - if we are going to say that if someone has an ulterior motive for doing research we get to dismiss it - then allow me to pull out the big book of Climate Alarmism.

The second one - low uptake - that doesn't invalidate the statistical analysis. I would expect that some people are loading up the same models to run their own analysis.

Ironically - looking at the 'controversies' listed against the paper, one of them listed was a paper that said Covid came from a lab. Now - refresh my memory, wasn't that something that was declared heretical for a time, before being rolled back to plausible.

[R650R]

I’d love to see an accurate independent survey of how many people are still Voluntarily; wearing masks around others, following strict hand sanitising protocol, getting tested if they have sniffles, scanning their location, avoiding unnecessary travel both locally and inter-regional or international.

Because casual observation says it’s about near zero. This is despite ample media coverage still showing plenty of cases and some people stilly dying with or due to covid.

So what direction that tell us???? Majority’s of populations is NOT scared of catching the virus or worried about granny catching it of them or the random community members with vulnerable immune system disorders.
And so the only reason the bulk of population complied was due to mass psychosis and virtue signalling triggered by govt run propoganda campaigns. So I hope all the people who got a hardon telling others how to live their lives are still “staying the f$&8 inside/home”

Also let’s not forget a certain part of the community claimed it was damn near genocide for them due to poor access/info/delivery of vaccines and testing. Again casual observation shows no disproportionate drop in their population numbers.

Plus one TDL I want refund too

[husaberg]

still showing plenty of cases and some people stilly dying with or due to covid.


Odd You earlier claimed covid was a hoax and the deaths were a near impossibilities.
you claimed it was cured by all sorts of other stuff as well only these were all proven to be false
its really surprising you actually still comment on here given how spectacularly wrong you were on so many occasions.


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...


The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


There’s two ways this pans out... the virus magically mostly disappears and we return to some form of normal rampant consumerism after being tattooed/implanted with bill gates digital ID2020 social/vaccine passport
Certificate
Of
Vaccination
I
D

Covid

Or this virus turns out to be as nasty as they say it is. Then we have at least three years living under full blown communism to control spread til it naturally mutates itself out of existence as all virus strains do. This will be a major worldwide depression and everyone will be off to workcamps in exchange for food as all western economies will be crippled by the early welfare dolled out to “keep the economy going”

One thing Is for sure either way, given the chance of a crisis govt will pass new laws and taxes to “save us”.... next election will be very interesting

The Covid tracer app stops the spread of the virus just as effectively as mandatory carrying of drivers licence stops unlicensed drivers from driving cars.

It’s kinda pointless though really, Jacinda has just demonstrated how willing the govt is to plunge the country into draconian lockdowns again for a few cases...
Now if EVERYONE in the current outbreak had scanned the SAME amount of people would be infected, the virus doesn’t care if your Bluetooth is on or not.
The resulting lockdown would prob be worse as with two deg of separation in modern society it would prob show even more people at risk of infection spreading...

But I guess we’ll all find that out soon enough when they decree it mandatory to scan everywhere

[SaferRides]

I don't want to start a debate by posting this link, but some of you might find it of interest. The link will only work until 10 June.

It's a long interview!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/04/24/magazine/dr-fauci-pandemic.html?unlocked_article_code=o0GIBBnHn6R0qp GrMXE8hB3Is15vCe6LtuVnjBG8Ofhs-aglVqsicQ--bQaaZGe9OBbJZzREGAKXiIR2rsF1YC6cvboD-skI-5D-PeMxcjtQnniuYnj0V3cFI0mPt7uVy0knY76U3u0usuM4k8BmIk GUnjJB5Z4L_dObd2gntBWRGHEYl_1_dCYFVAl7qyLZv0xF-PFyKGCADpSNv3e1GpWj-RomCjPsHethISPfHKeRe9dZWuCmY2oEWCzYExi7dcV6RVs6GEB QwFFCbbhgHxc4jH_Z48fKOy_vmVBb_R-urgY3dk2wg8F9SjqU-_UfJWy0q8k2jcXqLG85J4prmzw9IhSxUy0Ge1gsqwI&giftCopy=2_Explore&smid=url-share

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[pete376403]

I don't want to start a debate by posting this link, but some of you might find it of interest. The link will only work until 10 June.

It's a long interview!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/04/24/magazine/dr-fauci-pandemic.html?unlocked_article_code=o0GIBBnHn6R0qp GrMXE8hB3Is15vCe6LtuVnjBG8Ofhs-aglVqsicQ--bQaaZGe9OBbJZzREGAKXiIR2rsF1YC6cvboD-skI-5D-PeMxcjtQnniuYnj0V3cFI0mPt7uVy0knY76U3u0usuM4k8BmIk GUnjJB5Z4L_dObd2gntBWRGHEYl_1_dCYFVAl7qyLZv0xF-PFyKGCADpSNv3e1GpWj-RomCjPsHethISPfHKeRe9dZWuCmY2oEWCzYExi7dcV6RVs6GEB QwFFCbbhgHxc4jH_Z48fKOy_vmVBb_R-urgY3dk2wg8F9SjqU-_UfJWy0q8k2jcXqLG85J4prmzw9IhSxUy0Ge1gsqwI&giftCopy=2_Explore&smid=url-share

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Good read, thank you.

[TheDemonLord]

I don't want to start a debate by posting this link, but some of you might find it of interest. The link will only work until 10 June.

It's a long interview!

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/04/24/magazine/dr-fauci-pandemic.html?unlocked_article_code=o0GIBBnHn6R0qp GrMXE8hB3Is15vCe6LtuVnjBG8Ofhs-aglVqsicQ--bQaaZGe9OBbJZzREGAKXiIR2rsF1YC6cvboD-skI-5D-PeMxcjtQnniuYnj0V3cFI0mPt7uVy0knY76U3u0usuM4k8BmIk GUnjJB5Z4L_dObd2gntBWRGHEYl_1_dCYFVAl7qyLZv0xF-PFyKGCADpSNv3e1GpWj-RomCjPsHethISPfHKeRe9dZWuCmY2oEWCzYExi7dcV6RVs6GEB QwFFCbbhgHxc4jH_Z48fKOy_vmVBb_R-urgY3dk2wg8F9SjqU-_UfJWy0q8k2jcXqLG85J4prmzw9IhSxUy0Ge1gsqwI&giftCopy=2_Explore&smid=url-share

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An interesting read.

There's a few points in there - such as the Bangladesh study on mask efficacy (triple usage of masks, less than 10% impact on transmission) and when he talks about the Origin, his answers aren't the answers of the Scientist he professes to be, but the answers of the Politician he has become.

Reading the comments was also interesting - either he's a Saint or a Sinner.

Perhaps the most interesting line, however, is when he talks about his proposed actions and the costs to do them - he repeatedly says 'I'm not an Economist' - and in a moment of naked honesty - he admits that as a Public Health official, he can only see the situation in terms of Public Health.

It seems that the biggest reason for the criticism/hatred he gets - is because he was the figurehead that publicly proposed increase non-pharmaceutical interventions (Masks, Lockdowns etc.) on wonky data and completely ignored the impact on people's lives. If you are going to make the case, publicly, for these things to be done, your data had better be 200% sound.

There was a Comment that was critical of him that also referenced this - that in the interview when he talked about how many would die without the Vaccine, he's pulling numbers out of the air - but he's relaying them as if they were facts - and I think this exemplifies the issue: He was putting forward shaky science as gospel truth and using it as the basis to demand massive infringements on individual autonomy and civil liberty.

He does also acknowledge that when they knew it was almost all elderly that were dying, that they didn't get their messaging right.

My personal view here is not charitable - if they had said that clearly - then everyone would have gone 'Sweet, I'm not over 65, No mask and No lockdown for me'.

Ultimately - Fauci decided to self-appoint himself as 'I am the science', using that authority to push highly restrictive policy. When the Science in question is shown to be dubious at best - people are absolutely right to critique him.

Another commenter said it best 'He would have gotten less hate if he had been honest about what he didn't know'

[husaberg]

https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1679/4787/files/7pex59h04bp41_600x600.jpg?v=1610906095https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-nktVYJatJsU/TYQ78jcJJxI/AAAAAAAAAHA/dWVsdmtTo3w/s640/DarwinEatsCake0003.jpg

[mr bucketracer]

Time for your boosters guys

[BMWST?]

An interesting read.

There's a few points in there - such as the Bangladesh study on mask efficacy (triple usage of masks, less than 10% impact on transmission) and when he talks about the Origin, his answers aren't the answers of the Scientist he professes to be, but the answers of the Politician he has become.

Reading the comments was also interesting - either he's a Saint or a Sinner.

Perhaps the most interesting line, however, is when he talks about his proposed actions and the costs to do them - he repeatedly says 'I'm not an Economist' - and in a moment of naked honesty - he admits that as a Public Health official, he can only see the situation in terms of Public Health.

It seems that the biggest reason for the criticism/hatred he gets - is because he was the figurehead that publicly proposed increase non-pharmaceutical interventions (Masks, Lockdowns etc.) on wonky data and completely ignored the impact on people's lives. If you are going to make the case, publicly, for these things to be done, your data had better be 200% sound.

There was a Comment that was critical of him that also referenced this - that in the interview when he talked about how many would die without the Vaccine, he's pulling numbers out of the air - but he's relaying them as if they were facts - and I think this exemplifies the issue: He was putting forward shaky science as gospel truth and using it as the basis to demand massive infringements on individual autonomy and civil liberty.

He does also acknowledge that when they knew it was almost all elderly that were dying, that they didn't get their messaging right.

My personal view here is not charitable - if they had said that clearly - then everyone would have gone 'Sweet, I'm not over 65, No mask and No lockdown for me'.

Ultimately - Fauci decided to self-appoint himself as 'I am the science', using that authority to push highly restrictive policy. When the Science in question is shown to be dubious at best - people are absolutely right to critique him.

Another commenter said it best 'He would have gotten less hate if he had been honest about what he didn't know'
Ironic too in that he was one of the parties that you could say was "responsible" for the virus in the first place

[Kickaha]

Time for your boosters guys

Stick your boosters up your arse, even the vaccine wasn't worth getting

[sugilite]

Stick your boosters up your arse, even the vaccine wasn't worth getting

What - they have covid boosters in suppository form now?
Finally an incentive to get boosted!

[F5 Dave]

I'm waiting for the mass genocide American social media followers were claiming was going to happen after vaccination.
But I keep coming to work alive and they all seem to be as well.

I drive over a bridge on the way to work and see all the poor saps stuck in Wellington bound traffic. Seems to be getting worse not better:mellow:
But Wait! This week, a dramatic downturn of traffic. Perhaps it has kicked off?
. . . Or it could be school holidays 🤔

Just tried a spoon. Doesn't stick despite a dose on Tuesday.
Should I try a paper clip?

[husaberg]

What - they have covid boosters in suppository form now?
Finally an incentive to get boosted!

Odd anti-vaxers , talk as if their knowledge were drawn in suppository form.

[mashman]

Science eh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZAso_eLJLI

[husaberg]

Science eh.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZAso_eLJLI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOjpo8vLfSo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvAAz4k20MI

[Moise]

An interesting study of bivalent vaccination effectiveness, if anybody still cares: https://academic.oup.com/ofid/article/10/6/ofad209/7131292

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[speedpro]

Wasn't that the one tested on eight mice?

[Grumph]

I was on Keytruda as a cancer treatment for 18 months most of which was across the pandemic period.

Talking to staff at StGeorges hospital, ChCh Public and Nurse Maude, no-one has seen a keytruda recipient with Covid.

It's a drug which is supposed to supercharge the immune system. It would appear to do just that.

I can't recommend it for general use though. It only becomes free once you've absorbed $70.000.00 worth.

Stick with the vaccines.

[mr bucketracer]

Some good news for f5 dave . He is a slow recovery. Not good what happen not long after his last post

[F5 Dave]

Yeah swollen glands bad infection on neck.
Get yourself to the doctor and don't ignore stuff.

[mr bucketracer]

Yeah swollen glands bad infection on neck.
Get yourself to the doctor and don't ignore stuff.glade yyour back on here .sounds like you had a rough ride dave !

[R650R]

Was in a sparsely populated movie theatre last week engrossed in the horror of the Oppenheimer project…
Not far behind me someone broke the quietness with an unstifled cough. Shortly thereafter maybe about a dozen people now coughed seeing as the first didn’t get lynch mobbed.
I almost burst out laughing at the absurdity that people were still scared to cough or sneeze in public but hell they did a real number on us with all the mind games.

Just think three years ago we’d all have to get tested and isolate for seven days just for being there in same building….

[onearmedbandit]

I've seen that exact same behaviour play out pre-pandemic too having spent hours upon hours in my daughters violin and ballet performances. One person breaks the silence and many others then feel comfortable doing it too.

[speedpro]

Everyone booked in for their next shot? I see there's a new strain detected here in NZ

[Moise]

My wife has just caught COVID after getting a bivalent vaccine 2 months ago. Too many variants now for vaccines to protect against infection.

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[BMWST?]

My wife has just caught COVID after getting a bivalent vaccine 2 months ago. Too many variants now for vaccines to protect against infection.

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the bivalent is based on two strains we have already had so there is no more reason it will be effective against a new strain.

[pritch]

Interesting comment from a Canadian waste water engineer on Xitter yesterday. He said Canada is having something of a "flu epidemic". Many people are reporting that they have the flu. He said the water tests indicate there is very little flu about. COVID on the other hand shows up big time. If people are that stupid this thing ain't done with us yet.

[speedpro]

Canadians are mistaking it for the flu evidently. The flu is not, and has not, been a huge concern for the vast majority which tells you all you need to know about it's severity or lack thereof.

[speedpro]

. . . . Too many variants now for vaccines to protect against infection.

They are claiming that vaccines do not stop infection but reduce symptom severity. Of course, if you do not get infected you will not have symptoms.

[speedpro]

But I keep coming to work alive and they all seem to be as well.
Still doing this? I can recommend early retirement. Sooo much time spent doing important stuff in the garage.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah another 10 years before it becomes late retirement. My father recommended retirement a while after he retired. I was in my 20s. Yeah thanks Dad. Real useful.

[speedpro]

I remind Cricket that he's only got another 40 years to go, probably more by then.

[sugilite]

Opps! Oh well, never mind.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/01/05/hydroxychloroquine-use-during-covid-pandemic-may-have-induced-17000-deaths-new-study-finds

[husaberg]

Opps! Oh well, never mind.

https://www.euronews.com/next/2024/01/05/hydroxychloroquine-use-during-covid-pandemic-may-have-induced-17000-deaths-new-study-finds
............

The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster

He has offered his evidence to anyone who wants it (obviously medical confidentionality limits to whom). He was successfully treating Covid with these drugs before the jab, because he was a part of a collective of doctors who didn't sit there and do nothing. Yet you find it hard to believe that front-line doctors are capable of such things? Moreover you think they're lying because of their position on the jab? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaa... They had their findings i.e. people cured with the evidence to prove tt, ready to present in August 2020, and yet no one has wanted to see it. The Mccullough et al paper from 2020 outlining the collective findings at the time is still waiting to be peer reviewed 18 months later i.e. it hasn't even been looked at yet despite the claims it was making at the time, and despite the fact that the jab is a bust.

But sure, let's go the conspiracy-theory road given that his claims have not been confrmed nor denied by anyone after 18 months of treating people with drugs that countries around the globe have banned as treatments because of their dangers... and yet in the most litigious country in the world, these guys are still doing that very thing. :killingme...

The evidence is not in your favour in the slightest, but by all means carry on towing the official line while people are evidenced to be dying needlessly, either directly or indirectly because of the virus. It's hard to change ones mind when one didn't make ones mind up for oneself in the first place, and damned near impossible if you can't rationalise information ouwith its source.

You do realise it's the information and not the people that's the important thing yeah... again a lack of question mark underlines just how much you guys are incapable of such things.
https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30875-5/fulltext

[sugilite]

............


https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30875-5/fulltextLooks like the covid brains trust had an off year.

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[Moise]

............


https://www.amjmed.com/article/S0002-9343(20)30875-5/fulltext

"Facing mounting contrary evidence, the proponents of HCQ with AZ resemble the deluded Black Knight from Monty Python and the Holy Grail whose limbs are progressively cut off but continues to confidently proclaim triumph in the battle."

LoL Not something you expect in a medical journal!

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[speedpro]

Any new articles? Something that includes vax efficacy. Proponents of HCQ mostly suggested use as a prophylactic. Tests were then done by those "debunking" it's use on patients with varying degrees of advanced covid disease, and in one case I read in doses that were potentially fatal. The results of this research were as desired and required for continued EUA.

[speedpro]

Quick question, how are you vax supporting covidians doing? Anyone been to hospital for anything serious(or not), any sort of neurological issues, eg Guilliam Barre syndrome, ptosis, Ramsey Hunt syndrome(Justin Bieber), or simply died suddenly? How many times have you had covid and how serious? Just trying to get an idea what I'm missing out on.

[pete376403]

Quick question, how are you vax supporting covidians doing? Anyone been to hospital for anything serious(or not), any sort of neurological issues, eg Guilliam Barre syndrome, ptosis, Ramsey Hunt syndrome(Justin Bieber), or simply died suddenly? How many times have you had covid and how serious? Just trying to get an idea what I'm missing out on.

Three vax doses so far, planning on another soon, no side effects of any kind. Havent had covid yet at all, feeling kinda left out.(edit - oldish 71, mostly healthy, non smoker, fairly occasional drinker, high coffee consumption)

[BMWST?]

three vax doses 2 pzfier 1 noovavax got covid about a year since the last dose hardly even knew i had it .Was just like the first couple of days of a cold but got no worse.The only reason i knew i had it was wife is a teacher so tests regularly she tested +ve so i tested +ve about 3 days later

[neels]

Quick question, how are you vax supporting covidians doing? Anyone been to hospital for anything serious(or not), any sort of neurological issues, eg Guilliam Barre syndrome, ptosis, Ramsey Hunt syndrome(Justin Bieber), or simply died suddenly? How many times have you had covid and how serious? Just trying to get an idea what I'm missing out on.
I died suddenly last week, but it wasn't too serious so they made me come back to work.

[speedpro]

Thank goodness for the vax or it could have been a lot worse

[neels]

Thank goodness for the vax or it could have been a lot worse
Unfortunately there is not a duplicate unvaxed control me, so can't provide any answers on effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing covid or reducing the effects.

As with any medical intervention there is a risk that there will be undesirable outcomes for some people, it does help to have sciency people in the family who have a sound understanding of the subject and no particular agenda to have a rational discussion.

[george formby]

A study of 67 million and the efficacy, or otherwise, of vaccines.

https://newatlas.com/medical/uk-wide-study-thousands-covid-deaths-undervaccinated/

[speedpro]

Ahhhh! Mathematical modelling, the sort that Neil Ferguson has done and who was probably involved in some way with this lot. He has such a great track record with all his predictions/modelling, and not just in the case of covid. No mention of the efficacy value used but if it's similar to modelling done here in NZ I've seen values of 95% or so used. With such an effective vax of course patients would have been saved from dying of covid if everybody had been vax'd. I see a claim that being vax'd reduces the risk of infection to something like 16%. The last data from the UKHSA had infection "rates" of 4-5 times greater for the vax'd in nearly all age groups so apparently it has completely reversed over a year or so which is interesting.

[F5 Dave]

The whole point of science is to peer review anything published. If it is rubbish it gets revoked. Take for example that Charleton (not a doctor) Andrew Wakefield. He tried to claim MMR vax gave kids autism. Using a study of 12 kids. . . FFS! :facepalm:

Anyway that was kicked out of scientific lexicon. But sadly it grew legs and people who knew no better ran with it.

So that is the reason big data and working out the outlier studies from the properly controlled ones.

Can't remember who said this, but if in one fell swoop, you took away all the religious documents and all the scientific documents: given time the scientific ones would come back exactly the same and the religious ones would likely take on new forms (just as they have all around the world if we look outside our 4 waĺls).

So the question is; do you want to believe the soothsayers, or the scientists as a collective?

[pritch]

A study found some 17,000 people died of complications arising from Hydroxychloroquine use as a COVID treatment.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S075333222301853X

[speedpro]

"The third quarter of 2021, when maternal deaths peaked, is infamous for the start of another worrisome trend, first reported by OneAmerica insurance company, of a 40 percent increase in deaths among 18- to 64-year-olds. “We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business—not just at OneAmerica,” CEO Scott Davison said then."

No research required. This is a simple statement of fact. Similar statements have been made by actuaries in many countries. This trend has not gone away. There's a strange lack of interest in what may be causing this trend. Applying "Bradford Hill" criteria narrows the possibilities, the same as was done with smoking and lung cancer.

[george formby]

"The third quarter of 2021, when maternal deaths peaked, is infamous for the start of another worrisome trend, first reported by OneAmerica insurance company, of a 40 percent increase in deaths among 18- to 64-year-olds. “We are seeing, right now, the highest death rates we have seen in the history of this business—not just at OneAmerica,” CEO Scott Davison said then."

No research required. This is a simple statement of fact. Similar statements have been made by actuaries in many countries. This trend has not gone away. There's a strange lack of interest in what may be causing this trend. Applying "Bradford Hill" criteria narrows the possibilities, the same as was done with smoking and lung cancer.

I would like to read your source material for that.

[BMWST?]

Unfortunately there is not a duplicate unvaxed control me, so can't provide any answers on effectiveness of the vaccine in preventing covid or reducing the effects.

As with any medical intervention there is a risk that there will be undesirable outcomes for some people, it does help to have sciency people in the family who have a sound understanding of the subject and no particular agenda to have a rational discussion.
and the "control group" in the initial vaccine studies have since been vaccinated so no help there for camparisons

[speedpro]

I would like to read your source material for that.
https://rescue.substack.com/p/ask-why-429-moms-died?publication_id=418275&post_id=140806198&isFreemail=true&r=ch1ue

[speedpro]

and the "control group" in the initial vaccine studies have since been vaccinated so no help there for camparisons
As with a lot of things, individual experiences may be of little significance. Individuals experience many medical events, heart attacks, cancer, etc. However, studying the experiences of a large number of individuals will illuminate trends in the cohort(s). If one cohort is experiencing an elevated incidence of certain conditions then it behoves those responsible to investigate the cause. Once the cause is identified a remedy can be applied.

Given the various theories about vaccines, a study could be done of a population which is divided into cohorts based on vax status. This would quickly eliminate the false idea that vaccines are a contributor, or the sole contributor, to the current excess all-cause mortality affecting many countries. A study of brain cancer patients in NZ, given the recent reported rise in cases, would help to reduce vaccine hesitancy which has become a serious problem.

[husaberg]

As with a lot of things, individual experiences may be of little significance. Individuals experience many medical events, heart attacks, cancer, etc. However, studying the experiences of a large number of individuals will illuminate trends in the cohort(s). If one cohort is experiencing an elevated incidence of certain conditions then it behoves those responsible to investigate the cause. Once the cause is identified a remedy can be applied.

Given the various theories about vaccines, a study could be done of a population which is divided into cohorts based on vax status. This would quickly eliminate the false idea that vaccines are a contributor, or the sole contributor, to the current excess all-cause mortality affecting many countries. A study of brain cancer patients in NZ, given the recent reported rise in cases, would help to reduce vaccine hesitancy which has become a serious problem.

If you go back a few pages you will find the excess deaths were debunked in a reply. it's just a lag period as countries like us and other had less seasonal deaths the year before die to isolation mask wearing etc knocking out seasonal flues etc.
Much the same the increased deaths in the group that had been vaccinated theory, of course more people died that had actually received the vaccination . As the vaccinated group of people was 85% larger. this was always going to happen.
If you compare the number of vaccinated vs unvaccinated with rate of death you will see the real stats. ie apple with apples.
Science doesn't have to many various theories about vaccination.

And of those that were vaccinated and didn't die? or better still and far more relevant the real actual increased rate of death for the unvaccinated?





Or the reduced surge having high rates of vaccination prevent?



I am afraid your supposition actually a reverse of logic
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/72/wr/mm7206a3.htm
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-to-compare-covid-deaths-for-vaccinated-and-unvaccinated-people/
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccinationhttps://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95565-8

What you really need to ask is if this information is so easily found and refuted why is it being spread around? why are people using real data incorrectly or attempting to mislead using official statements completely out of context
Are these people unable to use simple logic and look or are people actively spreading misinformation

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/04/30/fact-check-misleading-claim-deaths-fully-vaccinated-people/4856504001/

[speedpro]

All good theories, except that the UKHSA data was reported "per 100,000" of each age and vax status. Even with the incredibly biased manner of recording, the data was still taking a decidedly bad turn for one particular cohort. The biased manner I mention is for example where a young boy goes to hospital with a concussion after playing football. He tests +ve and is recorded as a covid hospitalisation despite it being 100% incidental. Closer to home, getting shot dead in a motel driveway, but testing +ve, will get you recorded as a covid death

As reported in the Lancet by Doctor Jonathon Pearson-Stuttard, Head of Health Analytics at Lane Clark & Peacock, the UK has recently had a number of consecutive years of excess all-cause mortality. The recent peak year rivalling 1940 for excess deaths. Doctor Pearson-Stuttard is also on the Faculty of Medicine, School of Public Health at Imperial Collage London so I'm not going to consider suggestions that he has misunderstood the data.

It seems that heart disease of various types is a major issue with more than a few not being aware of a problem and dying at home/suddenly.

The UK ONS has supposedly also misinterpreted the data. Quote from the linked article - "The UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) has calculated that there were 7.2% or 44,255 more deaths registered in the UK in 2022 based on comparison with the five-year average (excluding 2020). This persisted into 2023 with 8.6% or 28,024 more deaths registered in the first six months of the year than expected".

28,024 extra deaths in the first "SIX" months of 2023, according to ONS.

Many will not have died, not everybody does of course. There will be many who suffer illness without dying.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(23)00221-1/fulltext

[husaberg]

All good theories, except that the UKHSA data was reported "per 100,000" of each age and vax status. Even with the incredibly biased manner of recording, the data was still taking a decidedly bad turn for one particular cohort. The biased manner I mention is for example where a young boy goes to hospital with a concussion after playing football. He tests +ve and is recorded as a covid hospitalisation despite it being 100% incidental. Closer to home, getting shot dead in a motel driveway, but testing +ve, will get you recorded as a covid death

As reported in the Lancet by Doctor Jonathon Pearson-Stuttard, Head of Health Analytics at Lane Clark & Peacock, the UK has recently had a number of consecutive years of excess all-cause mortality. The recent peak year rivalling 1940 for excess deaths. Doctor Pearson-Stuttard is also on the Faculty of Medicine, School of Public Health at Imperial Collage London so I'm not going to consider suggestions that he has misunderstood the data.

It seems that heart disease of various types is a major issue with more than a few not being aware of a problem and dying at home/suddenly.

The UK ONS has supposedly also misinterpreted the data. Quote from the linked article - "The UK Office for National Statistics (ONS) has calculated that there were 7.2% or 44,255 more deaths registered in the UK in 2022 based on comparison with the five-year average (excluding 2020). This persisted into 2023 with 8.6% or 28,024 more deaths registered in the first six months of the year than expected".

28,024 extra deaths in the first "SIX" months of 2023, according to ONS.

Many will not have died, not everybody does of course. There will be many who suffer illness without dying.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanepe/article/PIIS2666-7762(23)00221-1/fulltext

Mike i have explained and give multiple links to why there more deaths now rather than before,were they somehow not credible?
I have not seen any data that gives higher rates of covid death in unvaccinated vs vaccinated?
can you post it?
Because when i put in the study the very first thing that came up was this
https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL2N2VK15E/


UK data does not show COVID-19 vaccination increases chance of death from virusn article published by a site that has previously been found by Reuters Fact Check to have shared health misinformation suggests COVID-19 vaccines make people more likely to die from the virus. However, it has misrepresented UK Health Security Agency (UKHSA) data on deaths by COVID-19 vaccination status and overlooks context about high vaccine coverage.

The blog, published on March 4 and shared online more than 1,750 times (here (https://dailyexpose.uk/2022/03/04/russia-distracts-uk-gov-reveal-vaccinated-more-likely-to-die-covid/)), states: “The latest data published by the UK Health Security Agency confirms fully vaccinated individuals in England are up to 3.2 times more likely to die of Covid-19 than unvaccinated individuals based on Covid-19 death-rates per 100,000 population.
Social media users have circulated the story’s claims here, here and here.
However, it is misleading to claim these figures show vaccinated individuals are far more likely to die with COVID-19 than the unvaccinated – and Reuters has addressed similar claims previously here, here and here.
The UKHSA’s March 3 COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report shows that the rates of death concerning COVID-19, adjusted to represent cases per 100,000 people, are consistently lower for the triple-vaccinated in all age groups in comparison to the unvaccinated (hereEditSign).

[speedpro]

I haven't suggested that the excess deaths, as per the linked Lancet article and ONS, are vaccine related. The article makes no such ascertion either. I can see where you might suspect the vaccine, given the near 100% compliance with the Bradford Hill criteria for coming to that conclusion. If anyone is making a claim that excess deaths aren't actually a thing then they need to educate Dr Jonathon Pearson-Stuttard, the author. In the ONS's own words there are excess deaths happening in the UK, but as per the "Reuters" fact check, they have obviously misinterpreted their own data. Kinda strange, given their name - Office for National Statistics, that they would get it wrong. They obviously got it wrong in 1940 as well, and every year since.

[speedpro]

The UKHSA stopped providing useful Vaccine Surveillance reports in week 13 of 2022. Anyone monitoring the data could see why. The last report showed that vaccinated in all age groups were 4-5 times(per 100,000) more likely to contract covid than the unvaccinated within the same age group. The rate of hospitalization was very close for both cohorts. The rate of death was higher among the unvaccinated.

The actual rates were not the interesting bit. What I found interesting were the trends. In week 13 there was a slight +ve trend in the infection rate for the UNvaccinated and a huge rapidly accelerating trend for the vaccinated. The vaccinated were the triple jabbed. The UKHSA had removed those who only had 2 shots in week 3 of 2022. When you looked at the charts it was obvious why.

The difference between the cohorts for hospitalization was getting very close to even. The vaccinated had previously been hospitalized at a lower rate, but their rate was rising and was close to matching the UNvaccinated. I expected parity within a week or so.

The rate of death was lower for the vaccinated, but it too was following the same inclination as infection and hospitalization. Without the data I can't say where it ended up but it wouldn't surprise me if the vaccinated now had a higher rate of death than the UNvaccinated.

[speedpro]

Here's another stats website, OECD.Stat, it's even in the name. Despite Reuters "fact check" they also are under the misapprehension that excess deaths are a thing and have even erroneously labelled columns in their tables as such. It's difficult to believe that such a previously reputable site could get it so wrong and it makes me wonder what incentive they have for doing it.
The image is for NZ alone in 2023. To get the full picture you need to visit the web site and enter/restrict the search criteria for the country and time of interest.
https://stats.oecd.org/index.aspx?queryid=104676&fbclid=IwAR34x_5eUJcK0mMJ9mLoFoMwei0LFRWBlwGYuYAAV TuAM1f1yu_AG9sMZjE#

[husaberg]

It appears whilst you can manually navigate an equine to a reservoir it's not always possible to encourage them to partake in the resheshments.

Me ,i prefer the interpretation of the vast majority of health professionals and the people who actually publish their data as too what is concluded and what the data is trending.
These people don't seem to agree with your assertions. They actually refute them quite strongly.
As they are medical professionals and scientists and people that publish the data i tend to back their experience and rationally ahead of others unable to substantiate their own claims. i am not talking a few qooks or those that like to quote others out of context.
Life life is too short to waste it on an alice in wonderland hunts with people that clearly have an agenda.
unsub

[speedpro]

For some reason the word "desperate" keeps springing to mind.

As for the health professionals whose opinions are to be considered I presume that Doctor Jonathon Pearson-Stuttard, Head of Health Analytics at Lane Clark & Peacock, and the Faculty of Medicine, School of Public Health at Imperial Collage London, doesn't make the cut despite being published in the Lancet and others. Can't have been the preferred views I suppose.

It doesn't matter my own views. The people whose work I refer to are well qualified to analyze various medical issues. Whether you agree with me or not I really don't give a shit. As many point out, I have no relevant formal qualification. Neither do they of course. The people I often refer to however are leaders in their fields, Professor Vinay Prasad, for instance.

[speedpro]

With the attached image I'm not interpreting the data or making any claims. The chart is simply data taken weekly from the UKHSA vaccine surveillance reports. There is no adjustment made by me. The UKHSA removed the "only" double jabbed in week 3(2022) as can be seen by the sudden decrease in numbers. Make of it what you will.

The chart is not available on the UKHSA website. It is my own work but the only thing it contains is the values from tables provided each week by the UKHSA

Edit: chart is of covid cases per 100,000, as reported by the UKHSA. It is for the "over 30 year olds" only and is divided into vax'd & unvax'd for each age group.

[Moise]

With the attached image I'm not interpreting the data or making any claims. The chart is simply data taken weekly from the UKHSA vaccine surveillance reports. There is no adjustment made by me. The UKHSA removed the "only" double jabbed in week 3(2022) as can be seen by the sudden decrease in numbers. Make of it what you will.

The chart is not available on the UKHSA website. It is my own work but the only thing it contains is the values from tables provided each week by the UKHSAWhat period does this cover? I assume it's 2021-22?

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[speedpro]

The data for the chart ended in week 13 of 2022. This and other charts I created, using only the UKHSA data, made it obvious why.

[speedpro]

Professor Norman Fenton reviewing various published papers and their "dubious" use of data to reach favourable conclusions.
https://youtu.be/Y_QldhGFuWQ?si=FUDUOdYCpjQnJri9

[Moise]

The data for the chart ended in week 13 of 2022. This and other charts I created, using only the UKHSA data, made it obvious why.It will be interesting to see the excess deaths for year end 2023. If the trend has continued, there will be about 100,000 excess deaths for 2022-23.

I am sure this now has the full attention of some researchers in the UK, although it appears to have been ignored by the media.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[speedpro]

Igor is as baffled as the rest of us that there seems to be an association between a certain pharmaceutical and excess deaths.
It does look like the trend is continuing.

https://open.substack.com/pub/igorchudov/p/2023-excess-mortality-positively?r=1o6rcn&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

[Moise]

Against my better judgement, I followed that link and very quickly wished I hadn't!

Back in the real world, there is also an article in the BMJ, but it does not present the same detail as the Lancet paper and appears to assume that the excess deaths are somehow Covid related. https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2371









Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[speedpro]

Closer to home - "The New Zealand Herald has recently reported some grim statistics with the almost doubling in heart attack rates reported in some DHBs, and the drop in survival of community cardiac arrests from 30% in 2018 to 10%."

Apart from a supposed drop in survivability of community cardiac arrests what is not mentioned is an increase in the number of community cardiac arrests. Hopefully nobody actually thinks there has been a doubling of heart attack rates without an associated increase of community cardiac arrests.

Good job that dying of a heart attack doesn't contribute to excess all-cause mortality.

https://x.com/nzdsos/status/1752205009129971747?s=20

[speedpro]

. . . the Lancet paper and appears to assume that the excess deaths are somehow Covid related. https://www.bmj.com/content/383/bmj.p2371

They wish, depending on their jab status. Edit: I had a read. They aren't really saying much.

[Moise]

https://www.today.com/health/covid-heart-attack-young-people-rcna69903

It's taken 3 months since my last Covid infection for my heart rate to get back to normal while exercising. I might be a bit more careful next time.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pete376403]

https://www.today.com/health/covid-heart-attack-young-people-rcna69903

It's taken 3 months since my last Covid infection for my heart rate to get back to normal while exercising. I might be a bit more careful next time.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

Interesting - I had a mild heart attack about 10-12 years ago and since then I've been on the triple A meds (aspirin, atorvastatin, amlodipine - thinner, cholestereol and blood pressure respectively) and have yet to contract covid in any of its variants. Triple vaxed and probably due for another. Maybe the heart meds are doing something useful

[Moise]

Interesting - I had a mild heart attack about 10-12 years ago and since then I've been on the triple A meds (aspirin, atorvastatin, amlodipine - thinner, cholestereol and blood pressure respectively) and have yet to contract covid in any of its variants. Triple vaxed and probably due for another. Maybe the heart meds are doing something useful

Yes, it is interesting. My heart is fine apart from mild arrhythmia, which was more noticeable than usual after Covid.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[speedpro]

It's taken 3 months since my last Covid infection for my heart rate to get back to normal while exercising. I might be a bit more careful next time.

I presume you're all jabbed up?

[speedpro]

Maybe the heart meds are doing something useful

That's an interesting thought. I wonder if anyone is looking into the possibility.

[Moise]

I presume you're all jabbed up?No, none since early 2022. I've had Covid twice though.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[R650R]

Closer to home - "The New Zealand Herald has recently reported some grim statistics with the almost doubling in heart attack rates reported in some DHBs, and the drop in survival of community cardiac arrests from 30% in 2018 to 10%."

Apart from a supposed drop in survivability of community cardiac arrests what is not mentioned is an increase in the number of community cardiac arrests. Hopefully nobody actually thinks there has been a doubling of heart attack rates without an associated increase of community cardiac arrests.

Good job that dying of a heart attack doesn't contribute to excess all-cause mortality.

https://x.com/nzdsos/status/1752205009129971747?s=20

Most likely down to lack of exercise, stress and poor diet choices during the lockdowns. The difference in longevity between doing nothing and very light weight exercise eg walking or gentle pushbike ride is massive.
Also early intervention is key to survival, social distancing/isolation means no one’s there to call for help early on. Then on top of that add the delayed arrival of emergency services as they are now overworked by the snowballing of general health problems caused by all inactivity.
If the vax was causing heart attacks they’d be way more “excess” or whatever term you want to use. Also the early adopters essential workers/healthcare/emergency services who mostly do shift work would be the canaries I. The coal mine dropping like flies but that’s not happening.
Myth….. Busted!!!

[speedpro]

The desperation gets funnier every day.

A VERY easy way to resolve the question and clear the vaccine of blame is to release MOH data. With a reliable record of the percentage vaccinated, preferably by age group, compared to the percentage suffering ailments or death it will quickly be clear how safe & effective the vaccine is.

For some strange reason that data isn't available. Vax status of patients was available early in the "pandemic" but once it became impossible to fudge the numbers for a favourable result, as per the UKHSA the data was simply hidden. I saved the UKHSA reports right up until they stopped providing the data. It was really obvious why they stopped providing it. They removed the "only double jabbed" but 7 weeks later the triple jabbed had exceeded the "rate" of infection of the unjabbed across all age groups. Hospitalization rates were close to the same and getting closer every week. Supposedly the vax'd were dying at a lower rate but that stat was on a slide as well.

Also, based on my own personal experience, there were a lot more people walking and exercizing during lockdown. A LOT more. I was walking many kilometres/day before during and after the lockdown. Being stuck at home obviously meant people were taking the opportunity to go walkies when they could. If what you suggest is correct, going by my own observations, the reverse should be happening.

[speedpro]

We know that cardiac issues are associated with covid.

What is less clear is whether one vax status or the other is suffering disproportionately.

Thankfully those pesky Israelis did a study which answered the question. The study was of younger UNvaccinated covid patients. To quote the report authors - "We did not observe an increased incidence of neither pericarditis nor myocarditis in adult patients recovering from COVID-19 infection". There were cases but the rate was the same as the background rate in the population.

So, who remains that is suffering cardiac issues, pericarditis & myocarditis in this study?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9025013/

[speedpro]

Graph for only 18-39 year old males who died of "all causes". Data is from the linked UK ONS web site.
https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland
The first shots don't seem to be particularly bad, or good. You make your own mind up about the 4th.

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland