The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[Viking01]

Morning.
Since seeing that flights have now resumed across the Tasman, I have been looking for any NZ Government statement on the likely course(s) of action that the NZ Government will take if Covid-19 cases start to be detected in NZ as a result of inbound tourists from Australia.

An Australian article from the 16th April indicated that Scotty would be reluctant to close state borders in the event of Covid infections, mainly because of the impact upon Australian business:

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/australia-border-closed-vaccine-2021-4

It was not clear to me whether Australia would close (i) just the affected state border to outbound flights (ii) all of Australia to outbound flights to NZ ?

But more fundamentally, what would NZ then require of any Australian tourists that might have arrived in NZ within a few days of an Australian outbreak being declared ?

I checked the Government Covid-19 website to see if there was any comment on intended NZ Government response, but couldn't find any.

If anyone happens to have seen comment re the above, could they please post up a link ? Thanks.

[R650R]

But more fundamentally, what would NZ then require of any Australian tourists that might have arrived in NZ within a few days of an Australian outbreak being declared ?

I checked the Government Covid-19 website to see if there was any comment on intended NZ Government response, but couldn't find any.

If anyone happens to have seen comment re the above, could they please post up a link ? Thanks.

“Intended response” that’s hilarious, they’ve been making it all up as they go along, no consistency or rational thought behind actions.

I wonder what happens to anyone who left Australia for here slightly before the bubble date for whatever reason... do they get to escape quarantine prison or do they get “ early release “ lol

Here’s what’s gonna happen, they gonna let this work long enough for people to get a sense of freedom, any initial cases will be hushed up as weak positives from prior infection. Then when winter hits we’ll get smashed with Nationwide level four lockdown again as tourists will have visited everywhere.
Then they’ll make the next bubble travel only for those vaccinated and using the vax passport app.
Non tracers will be blamed and scanning detail recording will become mandatory regardless of level.
Several businesses and their owners will be shutdown and imprisoned for failing to comply

Jacinda will appear on tv waving her hands and head flick randomly telling us “we’ll look it’s like this, no one could have envisioned this, it’s a work in progress, look no system is failsafe, we need to be kind and wash our hands, I completely understand some people’s concerns and that’s why we e been working around the clock for a solutions, I’ve been in close talks with all the people involved and we are working on a resolution”

You read it here first.

[pritch]

“Intended response” that’s hilarious, they’ve been making it all up as they go along, no consistency or rational thought behind actions.


No consistency or rational thought? Really?

At times the govt may have seemed unduly optimistic or trusting, but currently this government is a world leader with their pandemic response. (Fingers crossed.) That is not an accident, that took courage, planning and foresight, and yes, rational thought. Everybody had to make it up as they went along, it has been a century since the last pandemic.

There is evidence of lack of rational thought but generally that is more prevalent among critics of the government: the anti mask and anti vaxxer nutters.

[TheDemonLord]

but currently this government is a world leader with their pandemic response.

Is that because of the actions of the Government or is that because of our Physical isolation from the rest of the world, our ability to control access at the border, our Modern healthcare system, our very low population density and the overall health/genetics of the population?

Because many other countries tried to do what NZ did and failed miserably.
Other countries didn't do what NZ did (like Taiwan), they didn't have extended lockdowns, have a significantly higher population Density than NZ - and also did very well.

[rustys]

INDIA.. Flights to start again next week....won't this be fun :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[R650R]

No consistency or rational thought? Really?

At times the govt may have seemed unduly optimistic or trusting, but currently this government is a world leader with their pandemic response. (Fingers crossed.) That is not an accident, that took courage, planning and foresight, and yes, rational thought. Everybody had to make it up as they went along, it has been a century since the last pandemic.

There is evidence of lack of rational thought but generally that is more prevalent among critics of the government: the anti mask and anti vaxxer nutters.

The govt was anti mask early on...

Well it’s ferked already, airport worker tests positive....

[R650R]

Oh I see they looking at air conditioning issues at two MIQ facilities... the dumbarses only just realise everyone’s breathing the same air???

[pritch]

The govt was anti mask early on...


As simple as it is, you've got it wrong. The govt initially wanted the masks to go where they would be most needed, the front line health workers. Once they had that covered they advised the public to wear them in some circumstances. Eminently sensible really.

[pritch]

the dumbarses only just realise everyone’s breathing the same air???

They've been looking at that for months. Hotels were not designed to be isolation facilities so there are compromises. We don't have a specially designed isolation facility with negative pressure rooms etc so they're working with what we've got. So far to mostly good effect. Fingers crossed.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/aa8vtzUTvh0

[F5 Dave]

On data so won't watch that currently.

Can't say I'm a fan of this trans tasman bubble. Still seems to be covid untraced in Melbourne from water tests. And presumably 100s of kiwis currently holidaying there ready to come back with no quarantine. What is the upside again?

[pete376403]

And the door may open to travellers from India soon. What could possibly go wrong?

[F5 Dave]

Well it's not open. They have to do quarantine. That's a fair difference.

[pritch]

Can't say I'm a fan of this trans tasman bubble.

Yeah. I'd have preferred we were more advanced with the vaccination programme, but I guess the govt was under a lot of pressure to open the bubble.

[R650R]

On data so won't watch that currently.

Can't say I'm a fan of this trans tasman bubble. Still seems to be covid untraced in Melbourne from water tests. And presumably 100s of kiwis currently holidaying there ready to come back with no quarantine. What is the upside again?

Won’t plot spoil but a few pertinent points....

A dangerous bio warfare bacteria being tested/designed by USA escapes a lab in a foreign country (it was too dangerous to be making in their own country!) after a terrorist intrusion into facility.
One of them escapes and boards train...
It’s mentioned that it has 60% infection rate...
A top doctor is conveniently on the train and says to other passengers if your not sick already then you’ve got natural immunity as we’ve all been exposed by now...
Authorities lie to public and passengers and what’s happening to avoid panic....

Yep the Aussie thing is stupid I think it’s to deliberately trigger an eventual nationwide level 4 lockdown again and then to have full commie 24/7 track and trace and full forced vaccination....

Fluff news has an article that it’s at Mount Everest now, how bright is that to let it into the worlds most iconic location that has the temperature to store the virus forever or is it a cover story for future releases of the virus again....

[R650R]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-how-a-family-fled-and-returned-to-miq-facility-in-auckland

[F5 Dave]

Won’t plot spoil but a few pertinent points....

A dangerous bio warfare bacteria being tested/designed by USA escapes a lab in a foreign country (it was too dangerous to be making in their own country!) after a terrorist intrusion into facility.
One of them escapes and boards train...
It’s mentioned that it has 60% infection rate...
A top doctor is conveniently on the train and says to other passengers if your not sick already then you’ve got natural immunity as we’ve all been exposed by now...
Authorities lie to public and passengers and what’s happening to avoid panic....

Yep the Aussie thing is stupid I think it’s to deliberately trigger an eventual nationwide level 4 lockdown again and then to have full commie 24/7 track and trace and full forced vaccination....

Fluff news has an article that it’s at Mount Everest now, how bright is that to let it into the worlds most iconic location that has the temperature to store the virus forever or is it a cover story for future releases of the virus again....
Did that one have Gene Hackman in it?

[neels]

Won’t plot spoil but a few pertinent points....

A dangerous bio warfare bacteria being tested/designed by USA escapes a lab in a foreign country (it was too dangerous to be making in their own country!) after a terrorist intrusion into facility.
One of them escapes and boards train...
It’s mentioned that it has 60% infection rate...
A top doctor is conveniently on the train and says to other passengers if your not sick already then you’ve got natural immunity as we’ve all been exposed by now...
Authorities lie to public and passengers and what’s happening to avoid panic....

Yep the Aussie thing is stupid I think it’s to deliberately trigger an eventual nationwide level 4 lockdown again and then to have full commie 24/7 track and trace and full forced vaccination....

Fluff news has an article that it’s at Mount Everest now, how bright is that to let it into the worlds most iconic location that has the temperature to store the virus forever or is it a cover story for future releases of the virus again....

Cool story, but needs more ninjas and shit.

[F5 Dave]

And a love interest. Perhaps one that can never be requited . You know, to keep the wimmin interested.

[husaberg]

Won’t plot spoil but a few pertinent points....

A dangerous bio warfare bacteria being tested/designed by USA escapes a lab in a foreign country (it was too dangerous to be making in their own country!) after a terrorist intrusion into facility.
One of them escapes and boards train...
It’s mentioned that it has 60% infection rate...
A top doctor is conveniently on the train and says to other passengers if your not sick already then you’ve got natural immunity as we’ve all been exposed by now...
Authorities lie to public and passengers and what’s happening to avoid panic....

Yep the Aussie thing is stupid I think it’s to deliberately trigger an eventual nationwide level 4 lockdown again and then to have full commie 24/7 track and trace and full forced vaccination....

Fluff news has an article that it’s at Mount Everest now, how bright is that to let it into the worlds most iconic location that has the temperature to store the virus forever or is it a cover story for future releases of the virus again....


i seen that episode, it was when Gillian Anderson was pregnant and had huge norks.....

https://live.staticflickr.com/3521/3754839663_515207476b_b.jpghttp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-lTRWelCEG-M/TppHpmLNItI/AAAAAAAABNs/GkNTKFX8P6c/s1600/Gillian-Anderson.jpg

[R650R]

Did that one have Gene Hackman in it?

No but I just found out which movie you remembered, Trans America express at bottom of this page, apparently there were three train thriller movies made around same era.

http://western-locations-spain.com/mooncity/cass-cross/index.htm

Cassandra crossing has Burt Lancaster, Sophia Lauren, a young Martin Sheen and an also young g and innocent OJ Simpson

[pritch]

The Guardian reports that NZ has been knocked off the top of the list of countries successfully handling the pandemic. Singapore now tops the list, followed by us then Australia. Our vaccine roll out is considered too slow apparently. No argument from me.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/27/new-zealand-loses-top-spot-for-best-place-to-be-during-covid-to-singapore

[F5 Dave]

Is it ethical to highly vaccinate our population when the limited available shots could very likely save lives deployed elsewhere presently? The island nations will also have to be covered as an outbreak there will be devastating.

[pritch]

Is it ethical to highly vaccinate our population when the limited available shots could very likely save lives deployed elsewhere presently? The island nations will also have to be covered as an outbreak there will be devastating.

I'm not sure about the ethics of it but I wish our government would act as if the vaccination programme was urgent.

The health professionals don't seem to like to vary their approach to suit the circumstances. When a Covid carrying family visited us out here on the rural rump people who had been to a relatively extensive list of places were advised to get tested. The paper reported that there was a two hour queue.

People started arriving to be tested at 7.00AM. The testers were finally ready to start testing at 9.00AM. Of course there was a fucking two hour queue.

[R650R]

I'm not sure about the ethics of it but I wish our government would act as if the vaccination programme was urgent.

The health professionals don't seem to like to vary their approach to suit the circumstances. When a Covid carrying family visited us out here on the rural rump people who had been to a relatively extensive list of places were advised to get tested. The paper reported that there was a two hour queue.

People started arriving to be tested at 7.00AM. The testers were finally ready to start testing at 9.00AM. Of course there was a fucking two hour queue.

A lot of people on here are prob of engineering/machinery/logistics backgrounds and used to shift work or varying work times to get the job done to meet clients needs.

But outside of that in other professional occupations of office hours variety you’ll struggle to find competent people that want to work for starters never mind outside the sacred 9 to 4 lifestyle...
I’m sorry but Phillipe has to watch an hour of breakfast tv, stop at his fav cafe and book the Kona in for a service before he thinks about saving lives and how dare they not book in two weeks ahead!

[F5 Dave]

Gee, I think you might find the medical profession working hours that make the rest of us look like complete shirkers.

[pritch]

But outside of that in other professional occupations of office hours variety you’ll struggle to find competent people that want to work for starters never mind outside the sacred 9 to 4 lifestyle...
I’m sorry but Phillipe has to watch an hour of breakfast tv, stop at his fav cafe and book the Kona in for a service before he thinks about saving lives and how dare they not book in two weeks ahead!

Nurses generally still work the same three rotating shifts they have worked seemingly forever. The managers who run the hospital though are very much 8 to 4.30 or whatever. .

In the US it was pointed out a while back that the virus is worlking 24/7 and a 9.00 to 5.00 regime can't beat that. Some places subsequently opened 24hr facilities.

[TheDemonLord]

Is it ethical to highly vaccinate our population when the limited available shots could very likely save lives deployed elsewhere presently? The island nations will also have to be covered as an outbreak there will be devastating.

That's a fascinating question.

The more I think about, the more I think you are right - we have a unique set of circumstances that have made us highly resistant to a spreading virus - and we should leverage that to allow others who don't have those circumstances a better shot (pun intended) at curbing the effects.

[F5 Dave]

I have to admit I have not been reading your posts for a while, but that is a very human response. It hopefully will please you to know we will help Niue Cook Islands, and I think Samoa, or some of it with defence personnel (I was somewhat drunk in conversation) to achieve this.

I'm not in favour of squandering our advantage, I feel there has been considerable political pressure placed to progress the tasman bubble, for very little advantage on our part.

But to help our Pacific neighbours is an honourable position. We were all born on this planet.

[Berries]

Two words. Scully. Norks.

[husaberg]

The truth they are both out there.

[mcshaz]

Interestingly, and probably because the bumbling Hillsong idiot Scomo has little to do with matters (largely a state government concern), Australia is not doing such a bad job at containing cases at the boarder, and if anything, better (although this article needs peer review and to present a little more statistical analysis) - https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.02.17.21251946v3 . Similarly governments like NSW have a far greater number of public health personnel, contact tracers, lab staff to do far more tests with an outbreak than we could ramp up to - 137 000 tests in 1 week during the Sydney northern beaches outbreak around Xmas. Finally Australia tends to be more punative with punishments for rule breakers which may impact compliance.

The issue for both nations is what we do when vaccinations have rolled out and some 15 to 25% of the population are conscientious morons objectors. We both open international borders. COVID spreads among the unvaccinated population and services are overwhelmed (NZ has probably the lowest number of ICU beds per head of population amongst OECD nations). You or I have a motorbike accident, and manageable injuries become life or limb threatening because of ambulance and hospital overload.

[husaberg]

https://i.imgur.com/J7LANQ4.mp4

How vaccination to achieve herd immunity works

[F5 Dave]

Special hospitals.

Objectors can seek sanctuary in churches where God will take care of them. Also as much homo-opathy as they can eat. Church elders love that sort of thing.

[pritch]

A while back I posted that unvaccinated Customs staff may be OK, but people working for contractors would be less fortunate. I got that wrong.
Customs have terminated nine staff who refused to be vaccinated.

[F5 Dave]

Here's your chance to get vaccinated months before the rest of the population. Oh, no thanks. I've been doing my own research . . . . :facepalm:

[nerrrd]

Gentleman in the carpark at Parrs Park in West Auckland yesterday, sitting on a folding chair next to his ute with a sheet draped across the side of it with this written on it (and hopefully I'm remembering this correctly):

"Govt is lying
Not a vaccine
No immune response"

Clearly another top researcher in the field.

[F5 Dave]

No doubt written with his own faeces.

[mashman]

Nurse needs real support in London, coz there are still too many Karens around. Pass it on eh!


https://www.bitchute.com/video/B6XjuZKLPiWG/

[mcshaz]

https://i.imgur.com/J7LANQ4.mp4

How vaccination to achieve herd immunity worksThe problem is complex and will involve a) the number vaccinated b) effectiveness of vaccine - Pfizer MRNA vaccine (NZs vaccine) about 90-95% against last year's predominant strains, c) rate of decline of immunity (unknown) d) R0 or number infected per case - and also the shape of the R0 probability distribution (N.B. the superspreaders such as at the Bluff wedding cluster last year) e) how every factor mentioned is effected by new strains f) physical clustering effects - conspiracy theorists and religious zealots tend to hang out together.

Fundamentally the inept populist morons Trump, Boris, Modi ... have created a living Petri dish out of humanity and the virus is mutating incredibly fast and selecting for more infectious strains. Taking all the aforementioned points into account, current educated best guesses are that we need about 80% vaccine uptake to reach a herd immunity threshold. Many now believe that, given beliefs about vaccine harm amongst those unable to use logic to balance risks, this is unobtainable.

Even with a herd immunity threshold, without even higher rates of vaccine uptake, disease clusters have a real risk of overwhelming regional ICUs.

Watch this space...

Sent from my Mi Note 10 Pro using Tapatalk

[R650R]

A while back I posted that unvaccinated Customs staff may be OK, but people working for contractors would be less fortunate. I got that wrong.
Customs have terminated nine staff who refused to be vaccinated.

And about 20 something MIQ workers (some are sub contractors before the hair splitters reee about it)

Kinda says something when people at the coalface and part of the party apparatus donÂ’t want the vax...

And mandatory vaccines was just a conspiracy theoryÂ’s aye????

Remember when drug companies would pay people to be test subjects with stuff thatÂ’s been in development much longer...occasionally someone would suffer a crippling illness and people would wonder why they chose that risk....

Well racial apartheid didnÂ’t work out too well... weÂ’ll have to wait and see how a two tier society based on medical apartheid works out...oh I forgot the race based healthcare coming soon too...
Those who engage in identity politics are going to have a head spin dealing with all the intersections...

[F5 Dave]

. . .

Kinda says something when people at the coalface and part of the party apparatus donÂ’t want the vax...

...
Yeah it does. I'm assuming that you are not expecting customs workers or hotel staff to be medical experts, because that would be silly wouldn't it?

What it says, is how dangerous misinformation is and social media has a lot to answer for spreading it.

[husaberg]

Well racial apartheid didnÂ’t work out too well... weÂ’ll have to wait and see how a two tier society based on medical apartheid works out...oh I forgot the race based healthcare coming soon too...
Those who engage in identity politics are going to have a head spin dealing with all the intersections...


Yeah it does. I'm assuming that you are not expecting customs workers or hotel staff to be medical experts, because that would be silly wouldn't it?

What it says, is how dangerous misinformation is and social media has a lot to answer for spreading it.


Which actually begs the question what is R650R medical qualifications?
Boy scout merit badge in first aid?

[mashman]

And about 20 something MIQ workers (some are sub contractors before the hair splitters reee about it)

Kinda says something when people at the coalface and part of the party apparatus donÂ’t want the vax...

And mandatory vaccines was just a conspiracy theoryÂ’s aye????

Remember when drug companies would pay people to be test subjects with stuff thatÂ’s been in development much longer...occasionally someone would suffer a crippling illness and people would wonder why they chose that risk....

Well racial apartheid didnÂ’t work out too well... weÂ’ll have to wait and see how a two tier society based on medical apartheid works out...oh I forgot the race based healthcare coming soon too...
Those who engage in identity politics are going to have a head spin dealing with all the intersections...

This guy doesn't seem too in favour of vaccination for covid for a few reasons, not to mention the success rate of the AAPS outpatient treatment guide... and even at that he states that according to the data the J&J vaccine was shown to be the safest in the field. But what would he know eh...

Highly Cited COVID Doctor Comes To Stunning Conclusion: Gov’t ‘Scrubbing Unprecedented Numbers’ Of Injection-Related Deaths (https://www.lewrockwell.com/2021/05/no_author/highly-cited-covid-doctor-comes-to-stunning-conclusion-govt-scrubbing-unprecedented-numbers-of-injection-related-deaths/)

[nerrrd]

... weÂ’ll have to wait and see how a two tier society based on medical apartheid works out....

I'm not sure that 29 out of how ever many thousand border workers constitutes a 'tier'. More of a pigeon hole. Maybe a matchbox?

[FJRider]

A while back I posted that unvaccinated Customs staff may be OK, but people working for contractors would be less fortunate. I got that wrong.
Customs have terminated nine staff who refused to be vaccinated.

I hope you got THAT wrong. I hope you meant they terminated their employment ... :lol:

[sugilite]

I hope you got THAT wrong. I hope you meant they terminated their employment ... :lol:

They were going to die anyways ;)

[Paul in NZ]

Some people don’t like to wear steel capped boots either, but they are not coming onto our jobsites without them.

An employer has to take all practicable steps to protect employee’s and I can just see one of these muppets families suing them if they caught covid and died…

Having said that - you dont need steel capped boots to do the associated admin so...

[TheDemonLord]

Some people don’t like to wear steel capped boots either, but they are not coming onto our jobsites without them.

An employer has to take all practicable steps to protect employee’s and I can just see one of these muppets families suing them if they caught covid and died…

Having said that - you dont need steel capped boots to do the associated admin so...

I think the contention from the Civil liberties crowd is that after work you can take your Steel-Toed boots off.

Whereas can't really do that with a Vaccine and there is a potential for complications that can't be reversed. That said, So far, from all the reasonable data, it seems the Covid Vaccine(s) have been an unlikely success - both in terms of efficiency and the time it took to develop them.

I'm still interested to see if there are any long-term side effects.

[Blackbird]

I'm still interested to see if there are any long-term side effects.

My wife and I are due for our first vaccinations this month if the roll-out is on schedule. I'm taking the pragmatic view that there's a better chance of protection if things get out of hand in NZ as opposed to experiencing any unfortunate side-effects through having the jabs. I guess that I've lived long enough to have enjoyed life to the full if I've got that horribly wrong :laugh:

[FJRider]

Some people don’t like to wear steel capped boots either, but they are not coming onto our jobsites without them.

An employer has to take all practicable steps to protect employee’s and I can just see one of these muppets families suing them if they caught covid and died…

Having said that - you dont need steel capped boots to do the associated admin so...

It's not just an issue with employers either ... Visitors to a work site need to conform to the safety requirements as well. Mainly because they are the ones not generally aware of what issues are there that might cause them harm.

[FJRider]

I think the contention from the Civil liberties crowd is that after work you can take your Steel-Toed boots off.

If you're going for a beer after work ... they're handy things to be wearing if some (non working prick) gives you grief about you wearing them in "his" pub.




I'm still interested to see if there are any long-term side effects.

I'm just keen to see if they actually work first. THAT is yet to be proven.

[F5 Dave]

So about a billion shots have been given. Is that enough for you guys? Wait for 16 billion?

UK antibodies at 68% do that's pretty good so far. Nothing is perfect, but imperfect has beaten polio, measles et all.

[R650R]

Yeah it does. I'm assuming that you are not expecting customs workers or hotel staff to be medical experts, because that would be silly wouldn't it?

What it says, is how dangerous misinformation is and social media has a lot to answer for spreading it.

You don’t have to be a medical expert to have a belief on what you’d like put inside your body.
I’d expect most customs staff to be reasonably we’ll educated and observant of their surroundings and analysis of data and records.
The internet and ‘misinformation’ isn’t the source of all people s beliefs and life experiences that may influence a decision.

Rape is illegal as someone else isn’t allowed to decide what they will insert into your body...

Did anyone notice that India was the first country to begin vaccines... hows that working out for them ?

[TheDemonLord]

So about a billion shots have been given. Is that enough for you guys? Wait for 16 billion?

UK antibodies at 68% do that's pretty good so far. Nothing is perfect, but imperfect has beaten polio, measles et all.

It's not about the total numbers given - it's more about what happens a year, 2 years, 5 years down the track - but as I said above - it seems to be a fantastic success.

[pritch]

Kinda says something when people at the coalface and part of the party apparatus donÂ’t want the vax...


It does indeed say something, but the something it says is about the appalling misinformation spread by Murdoch, the Internet ignorati, and some churches.

Yesterday I read of a woman who had just had the vaccine. Her hairdresser will no longer do her hair in case the woman "sheds the virus." FFS the vaccine does not even contain the virus. That was in the USA though and it does appear that about half the population there is terminally stupid.

[TheDemonLord]

If you're going for a beer after work ... they're handy things to be wearing if some (non working prick) gives you grief about you wearing them in "his" pub.

I use to wear them regularly, not for that reason, but because I'm a klutz and dropped multiple things on my toes.

[FJRider]

I use to wear them regularly, not for that reason, but because I'm a klutz and dropped multiple things on my toes.

Is your nickname Bigfoot .. ??

Don't carry heavy stuff then ...

[pete376403]

You don’t have to be a medical expert to have a belief on what you’d like put inside your body.
I’d expect most customs staff to be reasonably we’ll educated and observant of their surroundings and analysis of data and records.
The internet and ‘misinformation’ isn’t the source of all people s beliefs and life experiences that may influence a decision.

Rape is illegal as someone else isn’t allowed to decide "o begin vaccines... hows that working out for them ?

What is your source of misinformation? "On December 8 2020, the United Kingdom became the first country in the world to start administrating its citizens with a fully trialled and tested COVID-19 vaccine, soon followed by several other nations."
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/12/24/vaccine-rollout-which-countries-have-started

And why would you expect customs staff, any more than any one else to be "reasonably well educated..."

[TheDemonLord]

My wife and I are due for our first vaccinations this month if the roll-out is on schedule. I'm taking the pragmatic view that there's a better chance of protection if things get out of hand in NZ as opposed to experiencing any unfortunate side-effects through having the jabs. I guess that I've lived long enough to have enjoyed life to the full if I've got that horribly wrong :laugh:

And long may you continue live long - and if you are in the at-risk bracket from dying from Covid (65+ I think) - then probably wise.

For the moment, being in my 30s, I'll gladly wait my turn...

[FJRider]

It's not about the total numbers given - it's more about what happens a year, 2 years, 5 years down the track - but as I said above - it seems to be a fantastic success.

It's not about the numbers given ... it's the percentage of certainty that they'll do/have done ... what they're supposed to.

Have there been checks on the effectiveness of doses given ??

[TheDemonLord]

It's not about the numbers given ... it's the percentage of certainty that they'll do/have done ... what they're supposed to.

Have there been checks on the effectiveness of doses given ??

Oh I see - that's not a point I was making - but it's a fair call, so far the UK seems to be bouncing back.

But yes - it is prudent to have hard data.

[FJRider]

... so far the UK seems to be bouncing back.


To even attribute that to "Effectiveness of the vaccines" ... might also be premature.

[F5 Dave]

Potted Case history, have a look at Israel and what has happened to the infection rates then come back and tell us its unproven.

[husaberg]

The UK has had great results with 4 factors

Social distancing
lockdowns
1/3 of Pop now vaccinated


Not to mention 4 million people plus out of 67million already having had covid 19

Also, its coming into summer

[husaberg]

You don’t have to be a medical expert to have a belief on what you’d like put inside your body.
I’d expect most customs staff to be reasonably we’ll educated and observant of their surroundings and analysis of data and records.
?

science and Medical experts don't rely on beliefs they make decisions based on evidence and facts.
#Medical experts are better than reasonably educated. Scientists and medical professionals are more educated in medicine than you or customs staff.

The customs staff were not vaccinated against their will they were removed as they wouldn't comply with the safety requirements of the job there were hired to do
they were let go as they were not able to be transferred into another job as they lacked the necessary skills to be transferred.

[R650R]

The govt recently refreshed the bank deposit insurance scheme that had lapsed some time ago after the global finance crisis.
Right now the govt guarantees up to $100,000 cash deposits in NZ banks, so their not shy about backing the integrity of something they believe in.
So how about instead of wasting tax payer dollars on promoting the vaccine... how about they guarantee your health.
Just imagine govt will payout say $1 million if you have long term Injury from the vaccine, that would be lot stronger than just saying it’s safe...

Meanwhile though in USA vax makers are protected by law from being sued over injury.... just think for a moment how hard that would be to successfully prove in court.... then wonder why they should need such protection at all????

[husaberg]

The govt recently refreshed the bank deposit insurance scheme that had lapsed some time ago after the global finance crisis.
Right now the govt guarantees up to $100,000 cash deposits in NZ banks, so their not shy about backing the integrity of something they believe in.
So how about instead of wasting tax payer dollars on promoting the vaccine... how about they guarantee your health.
Just imagine govt will payout say $1 million if you have long term Injury from the vaccine, that would be lot stronger than just saying it’s safe...

Meanwhile though in USA vax makers are protected by law from being sued over injury.... just think for a moment how hard that would be to successfully prove in court.... then wonder why they should need such protection at all????

Maybe you should familiarise yourself with the facts rather than posturizing further conspiracy theories.
https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/topic_sheets/adverse-event-summary.pdf
You never did share with the forum what your medical or scientific credentials are beyond a boys scouts badge in first aid.

[F5 Dave]

On the train to the big smoke to do a big boys 1st aid course. I'll ask about my badge, they have forgotten to send it the last several times.
When I return I guess I'll be qualified to criticise the various ministry responses.

Watch out governmental bitches.

[pritch]

Just imagine govt will payout say $1 million if you have long term Injury from the vaccine, that would be lot stronger than just saying it’s safe...

Meanwhile though in USA vax makers are protected by law from being sued over injury.... just think for a moment how hard that would be to successfully prove in court.... then wonder why they should need such protection at all????

You can't sue the vaccine makers here either. ACC covers all that, well not the million dollars - or anything else they can get out of paying.

[Blackbird]

And long may you continue live long - and if you are in the at-risk bracket from dying from Covid (65+ I think) - then probably wise.

For the moment, being in my 30s, I'll gladly wait my turn...

Thanks! :2thumbsup . Yep, it's always a juggling act and primarily based on age in my case (74 this year). Had I been around your age (I wish :yes:), I would probably have preferred to hang on a bit longer to get more science-based info. We used to travel a fair bit and hope to do that again if the planet gets its act together before I go totally gaga!

[mcshaz]

Thanks! :2thumbsup . Yep, it's always a juggling act and primarily based on age in my case (74 this year). Had I been around your age (I wish :yes:), I would probably have preferred to hang on a bit longer to get more science-based info. We used to travel a fair bit and hope to do that again if the planet gets its act together before I go totally gaga!That also depends on how community minded you are. My wife and I have had both doses, but we did this for the sake of the vulnerable people we come into contact with and also because I know the sooner we get high rates of vaccinations, the sooner we will open back up and the less kiwis will be doing it tough (yes your industry might be killing it, but tourism operators, flight attendants etc. are not). Some young adults are also being knocked down by a chronic fatigue like post COVID infection syndrome, which does not seem at all fun.

In regard to arguments such as the one posted that we are not sure if the declining rates of COVID (and all cause death rates) in countries well into their vaccination programs (Israel, UK, US) has anything to do with vaccination rates - there are no absolute certainties and therefore no incontrovertible arguments in this world (just balance of risk, which in this case is massively skewed in favour of vaccination at both a personal and population level) and therefore nothing on this thread will convince some people. Dietrich Bonhoeffer - a German anti-Nazi who died in a concentration camp shortly before liberation, penned this:


Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.

[Viking01]

I see mention this morning that the Biden administration is looking at waiving Covid vaccine IP rights, and that negotiations will likely happen at some future WTO meetings.

https://sputniknews.com/us/202105051082810741-biden-admin-supports-waiving-intellectual-property-rights-for-covid-vaccines-ustr-says/

It will be interesting to see what agreement is finally reached. And what quid pro quo is required.

In the meantime, I suppose Pfizer had better make the most of the situation:

https://www.rt.com/usa/523007-biden-covid19-vaccine-intellectual-property/
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/522964-pfizer-profit-vaccine-covid/
https://www.theonion.com/5-things-to-know-about-the-vaccine-ip-sharing-controver-1846787751

[pritch]

I see mention this morning that the Biden administration is looking at waiving Covid vaccine IP rights, and that negotiations will likely happen at some future WTO meetings.

https://sputniknews.com/us/202105051082810741-biden-admin-supports-waiving-intellectual-property-rights-for-covid-vaccines-ustr-says/

It will be interesting to see what agreement is finally reached. And what quid pro quo is required.

In the meantime, I suppose Pfizer had better make the most of the situation:

https://www.rt.com/usa/523007-biden-covid19-vaccine-intellectual-property/
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/522964-pfizer-profit-vaccine-covid/
https://www.theonion.com/5-things-to-know-about-the-vaccine-ip-sharing-controver-1846787751

Interesting that Pfizer stocks took a hit. The patents they're using would be registered to BioNTech I'd have thought.

[Viking01]

Interesting that Pfizer stocks took a hit. The patents they're using would be registered to BioNTech I'd have thought.

Evening.

My guess is that the drop in share price simply reflects projected loss of future revenue (priced in).

Re the Pfizer / BioNTech arrangement: The following articles make mention of a Letter of Intent for Co-Development, and their Material Transfer and Collaboration Agreement.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/11/biontech-the-european-company-behind-pfizers-covid-19-vaccine.html
https://investors.pfizer.com/investor-news/press-release-details/2020/Pfizer-and-BioNTech-to-Co-Develop-Potential-COVID-19-Vaccine/default.aspx

[Edit]
One day later:

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/merkel-breaks-biden-opposes-wto-plan-waive-vaccine-ip-protections
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/523068-joe-biden-covid-vaccines-patents/

[R650R]

South Australia has just gone full East Germany....


https://youtu.be/_qZqf_h1Ou0

[caseye]

Sure as hell looks like it, any excuse to curtail and control the general public, fuckers.
:rolleyes:

[pritch]

South Australia has just gone full East Germany....



What? They are shooting people at the border? If not your comment is somewhat hysterical.

[R650R]

What? They are shooting people at the border? If not your comment is somewhat hysterical.

You know very well what I meant.

The lack of freedom of movement without showing your papers. Secret police observing your movements and compliance, citizens reporting on fellow citizens for non compliance.

And yes crossing border in the wrong manner could result in being shot in certain circumstances if you really want to be pedantic

[R650R]

A Freudian slip by the power hungry “doctor”.... fluff news moved fast to retract the original headline which had his photo and said 2.5 would be new normal baseline....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/125119588/covid19-well-need-to-lift-our-game--jacinda-ardern-explains-reopening-the-border-is-up-to-everyone

Hate to say told you so but where eventually moving to mandatory contact tracking even with the six monthly mandatory vaccines for everyone that is coming g after covid21 outbreak in July this year.

[pritch]

You know very well what I meant.

The lack of freedom of movement without showing your papers. Secret police observing your movements and compliance, citizens reporting on fellow citizens for non compliance.

And yes crossing border in the wrong manner could result in being shot in certain circumstances if you really want to be pedantic

Nah, the comparison is hysterical.

There is a world wide pandemic, millions are dead with possibly millions more to come, but some people can't comprehend that things will need to change. A vaccine 'passport' may become necessary to attend public events. Fine. You don't have to get vaccinated, you have the option of staying home. Permanently. Or as it seems in the USA, there is also the option of buying a forged vaccine passport.

[F5 Dave]

For those who were claiming early on that the numbers of deaths were exaggerated


https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/300307364/there-have-been-7m13m-excess-deaths-worldwide-during-the-pandemic


I mean it's possible they all slipped over in the shower, but. .

[mashman]

So the lies are old, with some proven as lies. It is rather nice to see the scientific method being used to validate settled science that clearly wasn't. and still very much isn't. I wish the medical establishment all the best in finding some truth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8bfJG7dQw

[mcshaz]

So the lies are old, with some proven as lies. It is rather nice to see the scientific method being used to validate settled science that clearly wasn't. and still very much isn't. I wish the medical establishment all the best in finding some truth.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qP8bfJG7dQwA nice refutation to the nonsense about virology being sprouted by this GP is at https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2021/04/sam-bailey-on-isolating-viruses-and-why-she-is-wrong/
As for wishing the medical establishment all the best - it is possible to believe that a vast majority of health professionals live in a world of lies, have little ability to critically assess the science and care more about big pharma profits than the health of the people they are charged with caring for. Amongst this a few maverick doctors shine light on the truth. Most of us believe the majority of health professionals are in fact the opposite in terms of critical thinking and staying ahead of the science and advice and decisions are predominantly made on the balance of evidence. Admittedly the systems are complex and personal motivations varied. Paradoxically the mavericks such as those linked to on this thread care naught for getting to the truth and helping people, but instead see a market of people they can sell their crackpot theories to by way of books, bogus remedies, speakers fees and YouTube royalties. It is worth looking at the countries which clearly and openly ignored the advice of population health experts and how they have fared for the last 18 months, compared to countries like NZ, who's politicians heeded population health experts.

[F5 Dave]

Mashy is a special type of willfully ignorant. No logic will come from that keypad. Been on ignore for quite some time.

[scumdog]

A nice refutation to the nonsense about virology being sprouted by this GP is at https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2021/04/sam-bailey-on-isolating-viruses-and-why-she-is-wrong/
As for wishing the medical establishment all the best - it is possible to believe that a vast majority of health professionals live in a world of lies, have little ability to critically assess the science and care more about big pharma profits than the health of the people they are charged with caring for. Amongst this a few maverick doctors shine light on the truth. Most of us believe the majority of health professionals are in fact the opposite in terms of critical thinking and staying ahead of the science and advice and decisions are predominantly made on the balance of evidence. Admittedly the systems are complex and personal motivations varied. Paradoxically the mavericks such as those linked to on this thread care naught for getting to the truth and helping people, but instead see a market of people they can sell their crackpot theories to by way of books, bogus remedies, speakers fees and YouTube royalties. It is worth looking at the countries which clearly and openly ignored the advice of population health experts and how they have fared for the last 18 months, compared to countries like NZ, who's politicians heeded population health experts.


Who actually really knows the truth in this fiasco? Proper factual truth, not made up shit backed with made up figures...

[mashman]

A nice refutation to the nonsense about virology being sprouted by this GP is at https://blog.waikato.ac.nz/bioblog/2...-she-is-wrong/

Interesting read.



As for wishing the medical establishment all the best - it is possible to believe that a vast majority of health professionals live in a world of lies, have little ability to critically assess the science and care more about big pharma profits than the health of the people they are charged with caring for. Amongst this a few maverick doctors shine light on the truth. Most of us believe the majority of health professionals are in fact the opposite in terms of critical thinking and staying ahead of the science and advice and decisions are predominantly made on the balance of evidence. Admittedly the systems are complex and personal motivations varied. Paradoxically the mavericks such as those linked to on this thread care naught for getting to the truth and helping people, but instead see a market of people they can sell their crackpot theories to by way of books, bogus remedies, speakers fees and YouTube royalties. It is worth looking at the countries which clearly and openly ignored the advice of population health experts and how they have fared for the last 18 months, compared to countries like NZ, who's politicians heeded population health experts.

I see the vast majority of health professionals as being straight up and living in a world of lies along with almost every other human being in waiting walking the streets.

A world of lies is not hard to create when the lies are already in place. Control the level of plausibility/truth that is released as knowledge through groups of vested interests where no opposition can deny your findings i.e. the court of scientific opinion, done. Once the science is considered settled i.e. the majority of science believes the plausibility/truth of a thing. When most of our base knowledge was created, science was the privilege of rich men with a big fuck off agenda i.e. control knowledge for profit. IP being the pretty obvious protection mechanism to keep it all shrouded in mystery. As you say, we want our Dr's thinking critically and looking forwards, not backwards..., but there are 2 sets of evidence, and there seems to be a hesitancy to prove either one either way from one side of the fence, moreover wasting energy on trying to discredit the people. I'll go with Dr Sam and her fame seeking maverick buddies here, I'll call them gooses, coz all it takes to shut them up, as they say themselves, is to give the proof that they're asking for. Put it this way, if they're talking bollocks, then the resulting conversation could stop the mass publication of books that are known to contain fake information, eh, eh, eh......

Give them what they are asking for, because it will shut them up and settle the science a bit. Millions of lives are on the line. Yet that isn't an option, moreover the energy goes into shooting the messenger to protect conflicting knowledge. Important knowledge... but hey, political games, IP, and persons with no want to accept that they may be propagating falsehoods, that's were the debate sits. Kind of fucking sick of that being an acceptable outcome... but hey, I'm biased.

[husaberg]

Interesting read.



I see the vast majority of health professionals as being straight up and living in a world of lies along with almost every other human being in waiting walking the streets.

A world of lies is not hard to create when the lies are already in place. Control the level of plausibility/truth that is released as knowledge through groups of vested interests where no opposition can deny your findings i.e. the court of scientific opinion, done. Once the science is considered settled i.e. the majority of science believes the plausibility/truth of a thing. When most of our base knowledge was created, science was the privilege of rich men with a big fuck off agenda i.e. control knowledge for profit. IP being the pretty obvious protection mechanism to keep it all shrouded in mystery. As you say, we want our Dr's thinking critically and looking forwards, not backwards..., but there are 2 sets of evidence, and there seems to be a hesitancy to prove either one either way from one side of the fence, moreover wasting energy on trying to discredit the people. I'll go with Dr Sam and her fame seeking maverick buddies here, I'll call them gooses, coz all it takes to shut them up, as they say themselves, is to give the proof that they're asking for. Put it this way, if they're talking bollocks, then the resulting conversation could stop the mass publication of books that are known to contain fake information, eh, eh, eh......

Give them what they are asking for, because it will shut them up and settle the science a bit. Millions of lives are on the line. Yet that isn't an option, moreover the energy goes into shooting the messenger to protect conflicting knowledge. Important knowledge... but hey, political games, IP, and persons with no want to accept that they may be propagating falsehoods, that's were the debate sits. Kind of fucking sick of that being an acceptable outcome... but hey, I'm biased.


Exactly what is your medical or scientific qualifications again?

[F5 Dave]

Who actually really knows the truth in this fiasco? ...
The statisticians working in conjunction with health professionals to interpret the data.

The only fiascos are caused by dickheads wading in with their own opinions and a soapbox platform. In combination with politicians which the public is sometimes rightfully sceptical of and journalism biases.

Florence Nightingale was a statistics fanatic. That was her true superpower. The medical profession learnt from this.

[TheDemonLord]

What? They are shooting people at the border? If not your comment is somewhat hysterical.

There's a long standing British tradition of being able to lawfully go about one's business in public without being acosted and requiring to product identification.

"Can Vee Zee your Papers, Please?"

Something that is not the same on the European Continent.

There's also a very interesting correlation between the countries that have this attitude of allowing the State certain powers and tyrannical regimes vs countries that have kept a long standing Liberal tradition and not had Tyrranical regimes.

Are they shooting people at the border? The correct answer is: 'Not yet' - but if I was to ask 'would they imprison or use the tyranny of the state to enforce things like a mandatory vaccination' - then I think we aren't that far off that scenario - and when people choose not to comply, then what?

[Viking01]

There's a long standing British tradition of being able to lawfully go about one's business in public without being acosted and requiring to product identification.

"Can Vee Zee your Papers, Please?"

Something that is not the same on the European Continent.



Is that because of the very extensive CCTV network that the UK operates ? The authorities have already been tracking where you've been, and seen what you've been up to, and with facial recognition software, there's no need to stop you and ask you for your papers. ;)

[F5 Dave]

Do you own a smart phone?

[R650R]

Is that because of the very extensive CCTV network that the UK operates ? The authorities have already been tracking where you've been, and seen what you've been up to, and with facial recognition software, there's no need to stop you and ask you for your papers. ;)

Exactly... but that system is reserved for hunting down high value targeys that threaten the elite...

The whole covid tracker and vaccine passport is to identify the resistance and see whose not ready to submit to tyranny...

Just like how the vehicle rego scheme is used to harass a minority of the population, it flags the rebel’s and those living outside the grid for special attention that would otherwise be unwarranted.

[pete376403]

Exactly... but that system is reserved for hunting down high value targeys that threaten the elite...

The whole covid tracker and vaccine passport is to identify the resistance and see whose not ready to submit to tyranny...

Just like how the vehicle rego scheme is used to harass a minority of the population, it flags the rebel’s and those living outside the grid for special attention that would otherwise be unwarranted.

If the rebels dont have rego then they probably are unwarranted, too

[TheDemonLord]

Is that because of the very extensive CCTV network that the UK operates ? The authorities have already been tracking where you've been, and seen what you've been up to, and with facial recognition software, there's no need to stop you and ask you for your papers. ;)

Something that many people, myself included, aren't overly thrilled about...

But this idea has been in existence in the British Psyche for longer than CCTV has been around.

[mcshaz]

coz all it takes to shut them up, as they say themselves, is to give the proof that they're asking for. Put it this way, if they're talking bollocks, then the resulting conversation could stop the mass publication of books that are known to contain fake information, eh, eh, eh......


Unfortunately this is part of the sales pitch - "why won't anyone give us the answers?" The truth is they are given the answers and have logical fallacies in their arguments pointed out to them, but they will not acknowledge or be quieted, display the retort on their channels, or give the full context to their misquotes and misunderstandings. The flat earthers do the same when evidence of a spherical earth rotating around the sun is presented - they have an industry and an income plus their is too much shame if they did acknowledge such things. Therefore they "double down" on their claims in the light of such evidence - as per the Dietrich Bonhoeffer "facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental".

While I realise I cannot use logic to move someone from a position they have not arrived at using logic (Ben Goldacre) I will put down a few examples:

Her arguments against cause and effect are based on Koch's postulates which were revised in 1890. The equivalent would be arguing with Honda's top motoGP mechanical engineers about engine mechanics based on postulates from the height of the steam era.
The virus has been clearly visualised and isolated. She has no training in either of these things and refuses to acknowledge what she is being shown. The equivalent to her arguments as presented is her stating she refuses to believe an engine emits CO2 because she keeps detecting tiny and variable quantities of nitrogen oxides and hydrocarbons.
She asks why a postitive PCR is being counted as an infection, but then never posts the reply which will (I imagine be along the lines of) - it is correct that fragments of the virus can be detected by PCR after clinical infection and infectivity have passed. However, The person will usually have either a) had negative surveillance swabs in the weeks prior if a high risk border worker b) presented because of COVID like symptoms c) if in an isolation hotel having come from a high risk country and Bayes theorem is applicable. Moreover lockdown and hygiene measures (masks on public transport, staying home when unwell, coughing into elbow) and closing the boarders has dramatically reduced the rates of all viral infections, so co-infections are far less likely (i.e. symptoms are unlikely to be due to other seasonal colds and flu at the moment). Therefore it has been decided to accept a very, very small (<1% ?) over-counting for the sake of simplicity. The equivalent here would be determining mechanical failure rates by assessing how many bikes had an engine warning light displayed on presentation to the garage. Occasionally the owner will have fixed the problem and not turned the light off, but by and large (if including every premises repairing bikes in NZ is included) you will have pretty good (but not perfect) idea of the failure rate (actually hazard rate to be semantic) of various brands of bikes.


The interesting thing will be her motivation - clearly money is one, as she has no fellowship of any college (i.e. no formalised training in any field of medicine), her business doing online consults (not particularly fair on her patients without undergoing formal training as a GP but we'll let that slide) failed pre-covid (she decided to go into a heavily IT business model yet admitted she was not good with IT), and she describes herself as a researcher but I am struggling to identify her articles in any field, using both PubMed and Google scholar. However to use her medical qualifications to "throw people under the bus" means she either a) can pass med school exams (i.e. good memory) but cannot see the wood for the trees (the classic academic who argues the sky is green for so long they believe it), b) has some kind of personality disorder such as a narcissistic PD, c) she knows it is crap and how deceitful her misquotes, lack of context and failure to provide the replies to her audience are (i.e. she is evil).



In combination with politicians which the public is sometimes rightfully sceptical of and journalism biases.


Absolutely - as Winston Churchill said "democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried"

[TheDemonLord]

Do you own a smart phone?

I do, but I turn off a lot of stuff that otherwise tracks/records my Data.

For example - I don't use Location services, I don't have a Facebook, I have messaging apps but each time they ask to access my Contacts, I tell them 'Fuck off'.

The point here is that with a Smart phone - I have the power to decide how much I want to share/allow - going all the way up to turning the thing off.

[Viking01]

...

The point here is that with a Smart phone - I have the power to decide how much I want to share/allow - going all the way up to turning the thing off.

Even to the point of leaving it at home when I go on my next protest march. :msn-wink:

[R650R]

If the rebels dont have rego then they probably are unwarranted, too

That’s another example of the same. It was proven in the last change in legislation that WOF condition was only a factor in about 3% of crashes or so....

Same with drink drivers they are typically a constant 1.5-2% of all drivers at any time on the road.
We get told drink drivers are responsible for x amount of crashes.... yet sober drivers have more crashes which leads to how many of the drunks were crap drivers who were going to crash anyway....

Btw before Karen shows up I don’t condone drink driving it’s a dumb thing to do but it’s another stat the govt used to play us with...


Yet these minor factors justify military police style checkpoints.

[mashman]

Unfortunately this is part of the sales pitch - "why won't anyone give us the answers?" The truth is they are given the answers and have logical fallacies in their arguments pointed out to them, but they will not acknowledge or be quieted, display the retort on their channels, or give the full context to their misquotes and misunderstandings. The flat earthers do the same when evidence of a spherical earth rotating around the sun is presented - they have an industry and an income plus their is too much shame if they did acknowledge such things. Therefore they "double down" on their claims in the light of such evidence - as per the Dietrich Bonhoeffer "facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental".

lol@part of the sales pitch. I apply Caveat Emptor as I see fit. Same as everyone else. Some of that everyone else might simply be selling books amid a pandemic and sewing doubt into the minds of the population over a great many things. Some of them may well be being used as pawns in a slightly larger game. Some of them may actually be right and are merely being shouted down. And as you allude to, until the same people who are asking questions are given evidence to their satisfaction, the status quo is likely to remain.

You wanna claim some boundary of logic and claim that what they're doing is akin to flat earthers on the premise that they may have misrepresented a tiny fraction of something that may well have merely been poorly communicated. They're not flat earthers, they're Dr's, Nurses, Researchers, pro-vaxxers, etc... with decades under their individual belts, with many have zero conspiracy bent...

Somewhat ironically, I have seen her apologise and clarify were she was wrong or misinterpreted before, so I have to say. Caveat Emptor. Shooting one of many in the hope of shooting the many is a sad fuck bullshit way, the husaberg way, of going about things. It shows a distinct lack of backbone or indeed intelligence and reaks of that desperate fuck like many things don't... but please continue with your logical sales pitch with regards to how bent these people are despite the evidence to the contrary. Oh, and if you aren't husaberg, I apologise lol... I know how pissy you can get when someone is not being accurate and therefore accountable for what you don't want them to buy... and again, I apologise if I got that last bit wrong too.

[pritch]

Yet these minor factors justify military police style checkpoints.

I've seen a few Police checkpoints. Seen a few military checkpoints too, even been on some. Totally different.

[Viking01]

https://www.dw.com/en/is-denmarks-coronavirus-passport-a-prototype-for-european-travel/a-57567432

[mashman]

https://www.dw.com/en/is-denmarks-coronavirus-passport-a-prototype-for-european-travel/a-57567432

Just finished watching the vid below. I reckon El Mike would say Yes, coz he sees it as inevitable given the recent evidence that he's looked over


https://www.bitchute.com/video/9Ci2jK1yFoOd/

[husaberg]

Just finished watching the vid below. I reckon El Mike would say Yes, coz he sees it as inevitable given the recent evidence that he's looked over


https://www.bitchute.com/video/9Ci2jK1yFoOd/

Our of interest Mashy as it's in the video you posted
what was Michael Yeldon's role at Pfizer.
Was he the
FORMER PFIZER CHIEF SCIENTIST as the title states he was?

or was his role at Pfizer somewhat overstated?
Was his job title actually quite different?


Next one did he say this

Mr Yeadon then says: “Forget lockdowns, they never slow transmission which took place mostly in institutions like hospitals and care homes.”

is this a true statement especially based on your own experience of what happened in NZ?

Did he say that in the UK
"deaths fell in the spring of 2021 because herd immunity had been reached "
Is this a true statement?

Did he also say this

“You don’t need masks, they don’t work.”
Is this a true statement?

lastly, how does it fit in with your conspiracy logic that the business that Michael Yeldon set up and sold to Novartis was working with financial advisory firm Rothschild & Co?
Also that the drug his company hyped, turned out not to work well at all?
https://www.fiercebiotech.com/biotech/novartis-dumps-ziarco-eczema-drug-taking-485m-hit
https://www.seca.ch/mobile/news/detail.aspx?identifier=/Newsletters/2016/Template-(19)/Mergers---Acquisitions/Novartis-agrees-Ziarco-purchase

[mcshaz]

lol@part of the sales pitch. I apply Caveat Emptor as I see fit. Same as everyone else. Some of that everyone else might simply be selling books amid a pandemic and sewing doubt into the minds of the population over a great many things. Some of them may well be being used as pawns in a slightly larger game. Some of them may actually be right and are merely being shouted down. And as you allude to, until the same people who are asking questions are given evidence to their satisfaction, the status quo is likely to remain.

You wanna claim some boundary of logic and claim that what they're doing is akin to flat earthers on the premise that they may have misrepresented a tiny fraction of something that may well have merely been poorly communicated. They're not flat earthers, they're Dr's, Nurses, Researchers, pro-vaxxers, etc... with decades under their individual belts, with many have zero conspiracy bent...

Somewhat ironically, I have seen her apologise and clarify were she was wrong or misinterpreted before, so I have to say. Caveat Emptor. Shooting one of many in the hope of shooting the many is a sad fuck bullshit way, the husaberg way, of going about things. It shows a distinct lack of backbone or indeed intelligence and reaks of that desperate fuck like many things don't... but please continue with your logical sales pitch with regards to how bent these people are despite the evidence to the contrary. Oh, and if you aren't husaberg, I apologise lol... I know how pissy you can get when someone is not being accurate and therefore accountable for what you don't want them to buy... and again, I apologise if I got that last bit wrong too.I'm definitely not Husaberg, but they were awesome bikes (and chainsaws). About to buy a Yamie, but I do like the svartpilen.

I hold a medical degree, have post-grad biostatistics and have a fellowship in intensive care medicine. A couple of middle aged colleagues I know from conferences and networks around the world have died from covid-19 (the large viral load at the time of intubation +/- continued exposure makes death about 2 to 5 times more likely in my profession once infected).

The arguments being used by Sam Bailey have been done to death by the same mob who denies HIV caused AIDS.

Sent from my Mi Note 10 Pro using Tapatalk

[mashman]

I'm definitely not Husaberg, but they were awesome bikes (and chainsaws). About to buy a Yamie, but I do like the svartpilen.

I hold a medical degree, have post-grad biostatistics and have a fellowship in intensive care medicine. A couple of middle aged colleagues I know from conferences and networks around the world have died from covid-19 (the large viral load at the time of intubation +/- continued exposure makes death about 2 to 5 times more likely in my profession once infected).

The arguments being used by Sam Bailey have been done to death by the same mob who denies HIV caused AIDS.

Sent from my Mi Note 10 Pro using Tapatalk

You rich guys. I buy chinese and fund communism ;).

Sorry to hear about your colleagues. From what I've read it sounds like a tough place to be making a living.

I have seen her state that certain things are her opinion in the face of there being an obviously convincing, usually proven as existing, alternative. I can deal with people who are willing to get things wrong, and from what I've watched so far she has shown that she is willing to be proven wrong and state it at a later date. That don't mean that I'm buying whatever she's selling, it simply means that there is some crossover with the regards to Covid that a few others have noted around the world. If she can be proven wrong. Kick ass! Science works... so long as she can't prove that position false or another theory true. You say "The arguments used by Sam...", and I Am duty bound to ask: What, all of her arguments? As I mentioned there's some cross over with other scientists around the world who are stating the same things. Caveat Emptor.

[Viking01]

Vaccine Distribution

https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/22440986/covax-challenges-covid-19-vaccines-global-inequity

https://apnews.com/article/new-england-patriots-china-business-diplomacy-sports-430ed8696f101ad6739a90c53752c77a

[R650R]

Will the following doctor be of high enough repute for the kiwibiker threaderati?????

“ after thirty years, is the second most published critical care doctor in the history of medicine, with more than 500 peer-reviewed papers and books, 43,000 scholarly citations of his work, and a research “H” rating higher than many Nobel Prize winners.”

Coming soon to kiwibiker....

[mashman]

WTF. I do hope this international team used a dirty slide or similar to produce their findings, coz...........


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sis1Sddzbqk

[Viking01]

https://www.businessinsider.com.au/gop-states-scrapping-federal-jobless-benefits-depriving-aid-2021-6

[R650R]

Dr Bloomers says not to relax we are no where near the half way point of the pandemic yet... WTF!!

Back the truck up....,

Worldwide we had massive lockdowns to “flatten the curve “ and stop the virus, eventually restrictions eased as there were less cases everywhere....

We got shown pictures of bell curves and flatter curves....

Now one would think with travel opened up and a magic vax that EVERYONE is getting ( his words) we must be well past the halfway point of this saga....

What does he know that we don’t???

[F5 Dave]

Lots because most of us are clearly more stupid than he is.

I certainly am. But I'm smart enough to know it. Dunner Kruger (sp) would be proud.

I guess one could look at previous virus outbreaks. Do you think that would be a good idea?

Took a fair while to tame out Polio. But it was a success.

But to underestimate a virus is foolish in the extreme. Heck it's American foolish. 'Cause fuck a lot of those fukers are stupid.


(And some are critical thinkers. All power to those guys).

[James Deuce]

Travel clearly isn't opened up yet and it will be years before anyone from India is allowed to travel anywhere. I can't believe that the idiot cruise lines think they can start back up yet.

[pritch]

There will be a major virus threat until "herd immunity" is attained in virtually every country. This country has a long way to go, the vaccine roll out seems slow motion at best. The government's web site isn't all that helpful. Either the vaccine rollout is behind schedule or the website and links aren't being updated. It's not easy to tell which.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/0c7vInnhSlY

[pritch]

SKY News Australia is owned by Murdoch. Nough said.

[pritch]

"Not proven yet" indeed.

This crazy bitch is a doctor (DO). She thinks the Corona virus vaccine contains metal which turns people into magnets. Obviously she's not an engineer or she would know brass keys and stainless steel spoons and forks are not magnetic.

Oh, and 5G too. Why not?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWHZgzWg-1U

[pritch]

It seems that those who got all excited about the virus originating at a lab in Wuhan may have jumped the gun. We may know one day but it may not be in the immediate future. Meanwhile the Nobel winning scientist who spoke of the "smoking gun" has reconsidered.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/09/leading-biologist-dampens-his-smoking-gun-covid-lab-leak-theory?utm_term=5e37ff5e27a023eef96de618a29dc3f7&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTAU_email

[husaberg]

I'm not sure if my earlier post was clear, the number of deaths from covid in the entire history of india to date, is almost the same number as their daily road.
In other words you have as much chance of being killed there in a traffic accident in one day, as all covid deaths combined ever.
I think their traffic issues are far greater than their covid ones, but meh, can't help traffic deaths ay?

This post hasn't dated very well.......

[Hoonicorn]

With all the media reporting on early test results being negative, we anticipate the review of the Level 2 alert status tonight to go a particular way.

So, with the potential for spread with the delta variant that we've seen in India, Australia, and Taiwan (who were like us and had beaten out COVID), would it be a risk to drop to level 1 which everyone treats like 'normal' when we could see some negative tests turn positive on second testing and others in the community refuse testing or isolating altogether?

To answer my own question, I'd say level 2 should be applied for the rest of the week at least, considering how bad this could turn out for NZ if the delta variant takes hold.

[F5 Dave]

And can they pleeease close the freaking borders at least until we are all vaccinated.

[R650R]

And can they pleeease close the freaking borders at least until we are all vaccinated.

No don’t go starting that although that’s their endgame. This virus updates itself more often than Microsoft so in future you will need to get a new vaccine every three months to keep your vaccine passport valid also known as Certificate Of Vaccination IDentity. Without the latest “mark” in your ultraviolet forearm tattoo you shall not buy ir sell.

We’ve already seen vaccinated people testing o isotope it’s going to create false sense of security. Recently I visited a international fast food chain staffed by millennials. While the gloved frontline product ambassador assembled my food they deviated to complete an Uber eats delivery order touching a swing door and beverage fridge door right next to customer toilet before placing drink in Uber order then finishing asseembly of my food (that term used losseky lol)

I smiled at the lack of hopes humanity has at surviving and looked forward to the live fire training my immune system was about to get. It passed with flying cours landing all round so on target without me even knowing

[pritch]

No don’t go starting that although that’s their endgame. This virus updates itself more often than Microsoft so in future you will need to get a new vaccine every three months to keep your vaccine passport valid also known as Certificate Of Vaccination IDentity. Without the latest “mark” in your ultraviolet forearm tattoo you shall not buy ir sell.


You must be relatively young. Previously, as well as a passport, international travellers used to have a little yellow book which contained details of all inoculations and vaccinations. It was called an International Health Certificate. If that wasn't up date with the jabs required for your destination, you didn't travel. If a vaccine passport becomes neccessary, it will not be due to some ridiculous conspiracy theory, it will just be a slight step back in time toward where we used to be. To a time before the vaccinations and inocculations helped eliminate many of the diseases they protected us from.

[F5 Dave]

I was listening to a podcast where they visited a retirement village in orcland and interviewed residents. Many of them were old enough to remember Polio. They all seemed pretty keen on getting the jab.

Don't underestimate the old codgers.

[F5 Dave]

And what were millennials doing working in a fast food joint? If you are going to throw around agest slurs at least do some research that you have the right bracket.

[F5 Dave]

Forearm tattoos? All very Revelations. Can't we just pledge our allegiance with Satan through the media of heavy metal music?:Punk:

[pritch]

And what were millennials doing working in a fast food joint? If you are going to throw around agest slurs at least do some research that you have the right bracket.

Middle aged hamburger flippers? Unusual.

That made me curious so I looked it up, the current crop are generation Alpha. Bless their little woollen booties.

[husaberg]

You must be relatively young. Previously, as well as a passport, international travellers used to have a little yellow book which contained details of all inoculations and vaccinations. It was called an International Health Certificate. If that wasn't up date with the jabs required for your destination, you didn't travel. If a vaccine passport becomes neccessary, it will not be due to some ridiculous conspiracy theory, it will just be a slight step back in time toward where we used to be. To a time before the vaccinations and inocculations helped eliminate many of the diseases they protected us from.

Remember when the Most vocal antivaxer and supposed champion of animal welfare on KB admitted he had all his own vaccinations and has had his pets vaccinated as it was more convenient for boarding them at the kennels....
what's the bet the lastest conspiracy junkie has had all his childhood vaccinations.


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.



Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...

[TheDemonLord]

Can't we just pledge our allegiance with Satan through the media of heavy metal music?:Punk:

You called?

[R650R]

https://www.strath.ac.uk/media/1newwebsite/departmentsubject/socialwork/documents/eshe/Bidermanschartofcoercion.pdf

[R650R]

Seems we all missed out on Covid 18 (feb2018) guess the scripts werent ready yet


https://youtu.be/f3Xkre0GOFU

[R650R]

With all the media reporting on early test results being negative, we anticipate the review of the Level 2 alert status tonight to go a particular way.

So, with the potential for spread with the delta variant that we've seen in India, Australia, and Taiwan (who were like us and had beaten out COVID), would it be a risk to drop to level 1 which everyone treats like 'normal' when we could see some negative tests turn positive on second testing and others in the community refuse testing or isolating altogether?

To answer my own question, I'd say level 2 should be applied for the rest of the week at least, considering how bad this could turn out for NZ if the delta variant takes hold.

Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.

[F5 Dave]

You're right. It's all a hoax. Off to India for you. You can go enlighten them. Take some firewood, they will be best pleased, its valuable commodity.

[pritch]

Seems we all missed out on Covid 18 (feb2018) guess the scripts werent ready yet


Well I watched the whole clip. The nurse talked sense, it must be frustrating watching idiots make more work when you already have more than enough.
I'm at a loss to know what point you were trying to make though.

[F5 Dave]

I'm not going to watch it, but I'll take a stab at his point.

Covid= Flu. We are all over-reacting. But what we really should be worried about is communism. All the world leaders are in cahoots to enslave us good white Christians. And shit.

;)

[pritch]

Cases are on the rise again in the US, mostly in the redneck, shithole states. Of course they are following the lead of the Republican Party, Fox, and Newsmax who all rant against vaccines. Lauren Boebert was excessively shrill about the "Fauci ouchi" at the CPAC Klanklave this last weekend.

Dying to own the libs. The stupidity is monumental.

[R650R]

Cases are on the rise again in the US, mostly in the redneck, shithole states. Of course they are following the lead of the Republican Party, Fox, and Newsmax who all rant against vaccines. Lauren Boebert was excessively shrill about the "Fauci ouchi" at the CPAC Klanklave this last weekend.

Dying to own the libs. The stupidity is monumental.

She obviously hasn’t researched the number one cause for lost/damaged cellphones lol if only her hubby had left some copies very of popular mechanics in there to read.

[pritch]

So it seems that Ivermectin might be more effective as cattle drench?


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns?utm_term=27c91b16d2ec4edee6d9b0d068fdecc8&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTAU_email

[Ulsterkiwi]

So it seems that Ivermectin might be more effective as cattle drench?


https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-ivermectin-as-covid-treatment-withdrawn-over-ethical-concerns?utm_term=27c91b16d2ec4edee6d9b0d068fdecc8&utm_campaign=GuardianTodayAUS&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=GTAU_email

The “study” was a preprint. It had not yet gone through the peer review process. Preprints are an indication of what you intend to try and get published.
Peer review is not a perfect system but if a Masters student was able to pick up some issues, there is a fair chance reviewers with expertise in the field might just have.
Because something is in circulation does not mean it stands up to any scrutiny, a bit like you know, YouTube and Twitter [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bofizo]

I live in this (https://tranio.com/spain/) property in Spain and they vaccinate everybody here. I think now it's from 30 years old and older. You just need to be registered in the country (live here, visa, residence or citizenship). Vaccines are free and easy to get. I read somewhere that over 40% of population is already vaccinated. But on the sea area in some provinces they removed restrictions on wearing masks on the streets... which is no good during tourist season, especially when people come to Spain from all over the world.

[pritch]

I live in property in Spain and they vaccinate everybody here. I think now it's from 30 years old and older. You just need to be registered in the country (live here, visa, residence or citizenship). Vaccines are free and easy to get. I read somewhere that over 40% of population is already vaccinated. But on the sea area in some provinces they removed restrictions on wearing masks on the streets... which is no good during tourist season, especially when people come to Spain from all over the world.

Our programme is a bit behind that. The vaccination programe is being done in stages, currently old people are being vaccinated. Perhaps as early as next week they are dropping the age, but I'd be surprised if they will be ready for that.

There is no COVID in the community currently, but we have several foreign ships in various ports with COVID cases on board. I seem to recall one of the ships is Spanish.

[Bofizo]

Our programme is a bit behind that. The vaccination programe is being done in stages, currently old people are being vaccinated. Perhaps as early as next week they are dropping the age, but I'd be surprised if they will be ready for that.

There is no COVID in the community currently, but we have several foreign ships in various ports with COVID cases on board. I seem to recall one of the ships is Spanish.

The problem with the virus is that you can't see it and many people can not even know that they have it... no symptoms

[pritch]

The problem with the virus is that you can't see it and many people can not even know that they have it... no symptoms

The waste water is tested so they know if anybody has the virus, and it was announced this morning that somebody in this town has it. It may be just one person recently returned from overseas. They are checking that, and have opened a testing facility for anyone showing symptoms.

I wasn't thriled to hear this on the news. My first vaccine appointment is tomorrow.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/covid-19-detected-in-new-plymouth-wastewater?fbclid=IwAR2MqJeQgk3CQ3j33HV7_BbLtICdPe CSQACOrkR0AKp6g2t0o2oYBG0s71I

[R650R]

The waste water is tested so they know if anybody has the virus, and it was announced this morning that somebody in this town has it. It may be just one person recently returned from overseas. They are checking that, and have opened a testing facility for anyone showing symptoms.

I wasn't thriled to hear this on the news. My first vaccine appointment is tomorrow.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/covid-19-detected-in-new-plymouth-wastewater?fbclid=IwAR2MqJeQgk3CQ3j33HV7_BbLtICdPe CSQACOrkR0AKp6g2t0o2oYBG0s71I

When you stop to think about the volume of material that's in the sewer it amazes me they can "test" for the virus like that. Meth I can understand as it's a pure scientific chemical reaction....
But the "virus" you are trying to find very small particles of antibodies or the actual virus itself???
Surely the residual amount of sanitiser and household bleach and chemicals going down basin and shower drains along with dishwasher and laundry enzymes would destroy and remaining virus particles????

[nerrrd]

When you stop to think about the volume of material that's in the sewer it amazes me they can "test" for the virus like that. Meth I can understand as it's a pure scientific chemical reaction....
But the "virus" you are trying to find very small particles of antibodies or the actual virus itself???
Surely the residual amount of sanitiser and household bleach and chemicals going down basin and shower drains along with dishwasher and laundry enzymes would destroy and remaining virus particles????

I may have misinterpreted this but I think it says if you have it, it gets into your poo.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300241508/poo-probe-the-science-behind-testing-wastewater-for-the-covid19-virus

[husaberg]

I may have misinterpreted this but I think it says if you have it, it gets into your poo.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300241508/poo-probe-the-science-behind-testing-wastewater-for-the-covid19-virus

Corect they test every hour for RNA virus material.
R650R doesn't let not knowing what he's talking about slow him down from typing.


detect viral RNA in a sample, we are very confident that it is actually from SARS-CoV-2. PCR is a widely used methodology, is extremely sensitive and can produce false positive results particularly when we are looking for things at very low levels. This is something we constantly work to guard against. We have a lot of positive and negative controls, and lots of replicates. Before reporting a positive, particularly a very low level unexpected positive, we would always repeat the PCR, and then the whole extraction on a stored replicate sample.

https://www.esr.cri.nz/our-expertise/covid-19-response/other-covid-19-work/wastewater-faqs/
Lets see, does R650R know more about testing than the ESR.........

[pritch]

I may have misinterpreted this but I think it says if you have it, it gets into your poo.


Not my idea of a fun job. Better than the one described in 'Itchy Boots' a few weeks back. Noraly was visiting an old abandoned diamond mine. Back in the day, before the crew went on leave they were given a laxative and had to take a dump over a series of screens placed there to catch any diamonds that had been swollowed with the intention of stealing them.
I'd have let them have the diamonds rather than check those screens.

[husaberg]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hks6Nq7g6P4

[pritch]

Virus figures are spiking in the US, so in Chicago there is a huge live music event: "Lollapalooza". (Picture below.)

This week bikers from all over the USA are heading to Sturgis, South Dakota. And like last time, many of them will take the disease back home with them.

Amazing!

[husaberg]

Virus figures are spiking in the US, so in Chicago there is a huge live music event: "Lollapalooza". (Picture below.)

This week bikers from all over the USA are heading to Sturgis, South Dakota. And like last time, many of them will take the disease back home with them.

Amazing!

In 2016 46.1% of Americans who voted voted for an orange fraudster who is a compulsive liar.
incredibly 46.8% voted for him in the next election.
This proves you should never underestimate the stupidity and gullibility of Americans.


Only about 34% of Americans can even name the three branches of the federal government: executive, legislative, and judicial

[pritch]

Only about 34% of Americans can even name the three branches of the federal government: executive, legislative, and judicial

And that includes people who have been elected to the legislative branch. F'rinstance Senator Tubberville of Alabama who when asked that exact question, got the answer wrong.

[husaberg]

330 million people in USA potentially exposed to virus, 188,000 dead (and that number is under review)

2.5 million USA soldiers served in Vietnam, 58,318 of them were killed.

.

This post hasn't dated well now has it.
613,000 deaths and still rising

[F5 Dave]

And the 'Potentially exposed' is intentionally misleading as a comparison. They had records of all the troops and their movements. Comparison to Potentially anything is Stupid, let alone something that just can't be measured.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/BAyz7mDK1nw

[husaberg]

video

Dude your posts dont date well at all.

Don’t know enough to take a stance on 5G apart from the obvious health effects on human nervous system that operates on delicate electrical impulses....


But hey here’s MAINSTREAM news reporting US diplomats made ill by exposure to microwave radiation with the obvious inference that some foreign power targeted them with a weapon while visiting these communist countries....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300176823/report-finds-microwave-energy-likely-made-us-diplomats-ill


I don’t advocate burning of towers but there are some issues that need to be explored.

Our bodies at the most basic cellular level operate on positive and negative charges, anything that interferes with that can’t be good.

5G is very directional which is not good if your head is between the device and a tower. The USA already has area denial weapons operating in the same frequency range which cause a burning sensation to the skin.

The only real need for the extra bandwidth is for big brother to spy on your every move and download and steal every creative idea you might have. Why are they making street lights with mini repeaters incorporated into them? It’s for surveillance not service.
That’s why we’re being made to “social distance” so they exactly who they are tracking.

Birds don’t know about conspiracy theories but it seems they don’t like 5g either, and we know birds use magnetic fields to navigate.

https://youtu.be/UD5w5bydbmY

At the very least international corporations are once again forcing current technology into the dustbin to force us to upgrade to a new device like when they switched off 2g etc...

The Covid tracer app stops the spread of the virus just as effectively as mandatory carrying of drivers licence stops unlicensed drivers from driving cars.

It’s kinda pointless though really, Jacinda has just demonstrated how willing the govt is to plunge the country into draconian lockdowns again for a few cases...
Now if EVERYONE in the current outbreak had scanned the SAME amount of people would be infected, the virus doesn’t care if your Bluetooth is on or not.
The resulting lockdown would prob be worse as with two deg of separation in modern society it would prob show even more people at risk of infection spreading...

But I guess we’ll all find that out soon enough when they decree it mandatory to scan everywhere


“Intended response” that’s hilarious, they’ve been making it all up as they go along, no consistency or rational thought behind actions.

I wonder what happens to anyone who left Australia for here slightly before the bubble date for whatever reason... do they get to escape quarantine prison or do they get “ early release “ lol

Here’s what’s gonna happen, they gonna let this work long enough for people to get a sense of freedom, any initial cases will be hushed up as weak positives from prior infection. Then when winter hits we’ll get smashed with Nationwide level four lockdown again as tourists will have visited everywhere.
Then they’ll make the next bubble travel only for those vaccinated and using the vax passport app.
Non tracers will be blamed and scanning detail recording will become mandatory regardless of level.
Several businesses and their owners will be shutdown and imprisoned for failing to comply

Jacinda will appear on tv waving her hands and head flick randomly telling us “we’ll look it’s like this, no one could have envisioned this, it’s a work in progress, look no system is failsafe, we need to be kind and wash our hands, I completely understand some people’s concerns and that’s why we e been working around the clock for a solutions, I’ve been in close talks with all the people involved and we are working on a resolution”

You read it here first.


Forecasting another lockdown by end of next week. People travelling over Easter, poor diet choices, sleep deprived from parties, wet and cold from camping/swimming. Some fecker will get the sniffles go and get tested positive.... they will have been everywhere so prob level four for Auckland and three for rest of country.


Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.

[pritch]

R650R, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you posted that clip.

The Victorian premier,, Dan Andrews, went hard and went early and was successful against virus outbreaks. That pissed of the PM and his supporters who were evidently more worried about the economy than people. They gave the premier crap because Andrews belongs to a different political party.

This as opposed to the NSW premier who did bugger all but crow about how successful she had been controlling the virus. NSW, although it currently has an uncontrolled outbreak, has still not mandated a full lockdown. It seems retailers with political clout can stay open. NSW does not go hard and go early, she dithers and then does the minimum she thinks she can get away with. Meanwhile the outbreak still surges ahead. When asked on the news tonight why Bunnings was still open she responded,
"Next question."

[R650R]

R650R, I'm a bit puzzled as to why you posted that clip.

."

I'm all about expanding people's knowledge. Someone might gain something someone might not.
On a secondary level it gives me great joy knowing that the stalkers amongst consume themselves dissecting every second of vid or word of post thinking they may glean something of advantage. Bit like minefields they cause little casualty but consume a great deal of a an enemies resources to navigate or remove.
Pure Tsun Zu....

And back to topic doesn't this all sound so familiar....
https://www.thewmhi.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Abusive-Relationship-Infographic.pdf

[pritch]

I'm all about expanding people's knowledge. Someone might gain something someone might not.


There didn't seem much to learn. An extremist crackpot has taken a court case. Apparently some of us await the outcome with interest. Others not so much?

[F5 Dave]

So 660XR.

We are ony trying to Deplatform you.

Because you
Speak such weak shit.

Jesus mother fucking Krisst you atr full of shit
.

Just keep in trying to keep your trucks on the road and not killing people.


That will be your true glory to God.

[husaberg]

from what i heard Xr650R has a 6g tower in his backyard but only has 1kb

[pritch]

Karma19 takes a victim.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/dick-farrel-newsmax-right-wing-scamdemic-dies-of-covid_n_610f50d3e4b041dfbaaabac6

[george formby]

I recently read the comments of a US Doctor who was talking about how difficult it was to tell anti vaxxers dying under her care with covid, that no matter how much they begged it was too late for the vaccine.

My biggest take away from the article was to ponder the mental strength required by front line health professionals just to turn up at the hospital everyday.

[Blackbird]

My wife and I had the first of the vaccinations last Friday. Apart from an aching upper arm for 24 hours, there was nothing else. A neighbour had theirs a couple of days beforehand. He heard from a source that will remain nameless, someone who attended the day before fished out a bloody great magnet and ran it over the site of the injection "to destroy the microchip". Sigh.... they move amongst us :facepalm::facepalm:

[F5 Dave]

We actually have the local contract to make the microprocessors. They really are a marvel of miniaturization. The problem is that you cant fit a big enough battery through the syringe.

That has to be inserted later. Next time the doctor wants to do a prostate checkup, hes really changing the AAA cell.:shit:

[husaberg]

nanobots are go...................... we sent ours out via 5g waves the surf like good uns

[pete376403]

WTF has happened in Tauranga, where a plague ship was given permission to berth, then port workers told to board it, so now there are a bunch of people in isolation and waiting for test results, having meanwhile spent the weekend doing things that people do in their time off.

Someone really needs to be held accountable for this, and in a big way not just an "apology"

[pritch]

Well well well. It's starting to look as if the anti vaxers may be Russian dupes. No surprises there mind.

https://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=337602

[george formby]

nanobots are go...................... we sent ours out via 5g waves the surf like good uns

Got my first jab earlier today and a nice sandwich, biscuit and cup of tea while they waited for me to turn zombie.

So far the only thing I've noticed is that I can change the channel on the telly just by thinking about it.

[Viking01]

Got my first jab earlier today and a nice sandwich, biscuit and cup of tea while they waited for me to turn zombie.

So far the only thing I've noticed is that I can change the channel on the telly just by thinking about it.

Oh, that's easy. Just wait until your other super powers start to kick in. [I won't ruin the surprise].

But you have to be judicious in their use. Which is why the wife threatens me with GBH if I even think about changing the channel.

[george formby]

Oh, that's easy. Just wait until your other super powers start to kick in. [I won't ruin the surprise].

But you have to be judicious in their use. Which is why the wife threatens me with GBH if I even think about changing the channel.

Ah, your wife is jabbed and developed mind reading powers?

Wait, my partner has been able to do that forever.<_<

Hopefully I develop better trials skills as a consequence of the second shot.

[Viking01]

Ah, your wife is jabbed and developed mind reading powers?

Wait, my partner has been able to do that forever.<_<

Hopefully I develop better trials skills as a consequence of the second shot.

I can't speak for trials riding, but I wish you well.

But on the open road, should the gentleman in front not move over to allow an overtake, one might consider meddling remotely with his ride mode (change setting to Rain mode) or maybe gentle application of the hand brake. Invoking the Kill switch is perhaps a little extreme.

[george formby]

I can't speak for trials riding, but I wish you well.

But on the open road, should the gentleman in front not move over to allow an overtake, one might consider meddling remotely with his ride mode (change setting to Rain mode) or maybe gentle application of the hand brake. Invoking the Kill switch is perhaps a little extreme.

Sat Nav Voodoo! Genius.:niceone:

[Berries]

Hopefully I develop better trials skills as a consequence of the second shot.
Don't want to start any rumours, but since my second jab I have not been able to get 4G or 5G on my phone but if the kids use it they can.


:shit:

[FJRider]

I can't speak for trials riding, but I wish you well.

But on the open road, should the gentleman in front not move over to allow an overtake, one might consider meddling remotely with his ride mode (change setting to Rain mode) or maybe gentle application of the hand brake. Invoking the Kill switch is perhaps a little extreme.

I'm old school ... I just shoot out their tires ... :devil2:

However ... I got the first jab yesterday. I'm now eagerly waiting to see what superpowers I may develop ... :wings:

[pritch]

I got the first jab yesterday. I'm now eagerly waiting to see what superpowers I may develop ...

I didn't get any superpowers. Didn't even get a sore arm. They did tell me drink lots of fluids, although I don't normally need much encouragement.

And then there was Ivermectin...
https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid

[FJRider]

...And then there was Ivermectin...

There is nothing in that article that states/suggests people that took that vaccine ... were more likely to catch covid.

[george formby]

Ivermectin quote. "it’s also used against some human parasites."

I know a few people round here who need a shot of it.

[F5 Dave]

. . . And it's not a vaccine. It's a drug. FJ was trying to be funny. Must try harder.

[husaberg]

. . . And it's not a vaccine. It's a drug. FJ was trying to be funny. Must try harder.

Hes well funnier on ignore.

[pritch]

There is nothing in that article that states/suggests people that took that vaccine ... were more likely to catch covid.

Was listening to a podcast the other night. Despite the evidence that the drug is ineffective against COVID, there is a shortage of the Ivermectin pills in parts of the US. The chosen substitute veterinary item is horse paste, that comes in apple flavour. (Sorry, flavor.) Evidently the apple flavoured horse paste is more palatable than the sheep drench.

I guess that makes a change from the silly bastards pointlessly popping hydroxychloroquine.

[Viking01]

Was listening to a podcast the other night. Despite the evidence that the drug is ineffective against COVID, .....

Would you do me a favour and post up a few links where Ivermectin has been shown as ineffective ?

I don't mean links to organisations like WHO that have not approved / ratified its usage. I mean medical organisations that have conducted trials that have disproven its efficacy (or its poorer performance relative to other available drugs or vaccines).

Thanks.

Cheers,
Viking

[R650R]

Well well well. It's starting to look as if the anti vaxers may be Russian dupes. No surprises there mind.

https://home.nzcity.co.nz/news/article.aspx?id=337602

You might like to know that NZ is one of ONLY 2 countries in the world that allows advertising by medical drug companies. Given that our media profit should from this are they dupe should too?

Very happy that none of you had side effects from your shot.

One main issue I have really is that you don’t know the quality of what you are being given, never mind that the ‘trials and tests’ are well short of normal standard size with regard to safety. So your trusting a profit driven company to give you a mass produced item into your body....

And then there’s this....

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/11/german-nurse-injects-saline-coronavirus-vaccine/

[F5 Dave]

I became eligible at 8am this morning (which gives away my age band). 4 hours later I was walking out with a purple card in my hand. I am very confident in the quality especially compared to say putting McDonald's food (apparently they do it for profit) in me which I generally avoid but you admit to.

I saw a Netflix doco on flat earthers last night. You should watch it. You may recognise some familiar themes.

[FJRider]

Would you do me a favour and post up a few links where Ivermectin has been shown as ineffective ?

I don't mean links to organisations like WHO that have not approved / ratified its usage. I mean medical organisations that have conducted trials that have disproven its efficacy (or its poorer performance relative to other available drugs or vaccines).

Thanks.

Cheers,
Viking

https://www.latimes.com/business/story/2021-08-11/ivermectin-no-effect-covid

Note please ... This article was published with the heading "Major study of Invermectin, the Anti-vaccine "Crowd's" [sic] latest COVID drug, finds no effect whatsoever.

[mashman]

Would you do me a favour and post up a few links where Ivermectin has been shown as ineffective ?

I don't mean links to organisations like WHO that have not approved / ratified its usage. I mean medical organisations that have conducted trials that have disproven its efficacy (or its poorer performance relative to other available drugs or vaccines).

Thanks.

Cheers,
Viking

The gent in the video says that Ivermectin isn't effective against Covid19........................... on it's own, and he's kind of surprised that there are doctors and people dismissing drugs on the basis that they do nothing by themselves. But hey, he, and those he co-authored papers with, are clearly suffering from confirmation bias.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAHi3lX3oGM

[husaberg]

You might like to know that NZ is one of ONLY 2 countries in the world that allows advertising by medical drug companies. Given that our media profit should from this are they dupe should too?




This is not true NZ is one of the two industrialized countries that allow direct-to-consumer advertising of prescription medications. the other is the USA.
Russia
Pharma companies are one of the major categories of advertisers in Russia. TV and radio are the main mass media types where medications are advertised. Medication advertisements occupy about 20% of all advertising time.

Austrailia
Drug companies run disease awareness campaigns that indirectly promote their products, by supporting professional and patients' organisations and by sponsoring journalists.

Hong Kong
Under the Undesirable Medical Advertisements Ordinance, advertising of medications is only legal for "minor" diseases, such as coughs and colds, headaches, indigestion, and others. Ads may not include depictions of treatment, medical professionals, or dramatizations of symptom

United Kingdom
Advertising materials directed towards the general public are prohibited from containing any references to prescription-only medications

Brazil
allows direct-to-consumer advertising of non-prescription medication, with restrictions on the type of drug and words and images that can be used, among other things.

Mexico allows DCA of medicines

[Viking01]

FJ Rider (post #935)

Thanks for the link. I saw it posted earlier, but when I tried to open and read the link, it required me to take out a subscription in order to read the article. Not happening. And given (i) the source = LA Times (ii) the article title (which seemed immediately biased), I was hoping to find something possibly more neutral.

Mashman (post #936)

Thanks for the video clip. I'd viewed a number of video clips by this MD as well as by a number of his similarly-minded medical colleagues.

I perhaps took a slightly different interpretation from the video.

In that he wasn't saying that Ivermectin was ineffective - more that "better treatment results" could be obtained by use of the drug in conjunction with other drugs (taking into account effects on different body organs as the Covid infection progressed through its infection cycle).

I think they were making the point that Ivermectin (anti-viral properties) had been cited as being primarily useful prior to Covid infection (preventative - acting as a prophylactic), as well as helping to mitigate the effects of an infection if one subsequently occurs.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

I think that the MD did acknowledge that a moderately to severely ill patient would probably warrant a different treatment regime. Horses for courses.

For countries - such as India, Mexico and some South American countries (e.g. Peru) - that will have both limited access to vaccines - and a limited health budget, then prevention by use of cheaper drugs with prophylactic properties is obviously an attractive option.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/doctors-claim-cocktail-cheap-drugs-could-help-india-extinguish-covid-crisis

Recognise that organisations such as WHO and EMA may currently not recommend (approve) its usage within western countries (EU):

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-ivermectin-prevention-treatment-covid-19-outside-randomised-clinical-trials

This appears to be on the basis of the limited number (mix, size) of clinical trials performed to date. Though the latter appears to be being addressed as time goes by:

https://c19ivermectin.com/

Choose "Ivermectin" and "Meta Analysis" from the top two rows in order to select and filter data.

[Edit]

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/indias-ivermectin-blackout

[pritch]

It seems the other pandemic in the US is mental illness. This woman covers most of the looney talking points.

https://boingboing.net/2021/08/13/woman-at-johnson-county-kansas-commissioners-meeting-says-anyone-who-votes-yes-on-mask-mandates-will-be-tried-for-crimes-against-humanity.html

[husaberg]

Thought i might drop out this nugget

Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...




The media are tripping over themselves trying to solve the mystery of why Africans aren't dying from covid as badly as the west.
Africans routinely take a cheap safe anti malaria drug invented in n 1960's called hydroxychloroquine....
Scooby Doo would solve that puzzle faster

[MD]

I was chatting to my Brother who is in Sydney yesterday and said NZ just can't keep dodging the covid bullet. Hope I didn't jinx us. He hates the everlasting lockdowns. We got our Daughter married off on Sunday in Chch in blissful ignorance covid was about to blow up in our faces. Thank goodness we got it done in the nick of time. Mind you weddings are a super spreader! Honeymoon cut short and how horrible the newly weds must spend some forced time together.

Fingers crossed everybody that we can nip this in the bud and return to our blessed lives asap. We have lived an extraordinarily enjoyable 14 odd months while watching the rest of world suffer the health and economical damage of the pandemic.

[Berries]

Fucking Jafas.

[Blackbird]

We live 2.5 km from Coromandel town centre, we had a big grocery delivery on Monday (including Kingfisher strong beer :laugh:) and I had a haircut yesterday morning. Guess we're reasonably well prepared then.....

[george formby]

Fucking Jafas.

I'm not normally anti city folk, but...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126107338/covid19-aucklanders-heading-on-holiday-ahead-of-lockdown-angers-leaders

Gonna get all nimby on them.:devil2:

[MD]

We live 2.5 km from Coromandel town centre, we had a big grocery delivery on Monday (including Kingfisher strong beer :laugh:) and I had a haircut yesterday morning. Guess we're reasonably well prepared then.....

Ha, I got beer in as well - essentials

[pritch]

It seems there needs to be arrangements made to have road blocks in place around Auckland before a lockdown announcement is made. It'd be a rush but with planning it could be done.

MD, getting the wedding over just prior was fortunate. There was an illegal engagement party in Victoria which has boosted the state finances. Sixty Nine guests fined $5,500 each. Amazingly the father of one of the couple is a psychologist, the other father is a Doctor. FFS

There has been transmission traced to the event.

https://www.news.com.au/national/victoria/news/fears-melbourne-engagement-party-could-be-superspreader-event/news-story/3e68ae0443fbb8e0cfd23ef28182721f

[TheDemonLord]

I was 2 days away from a Work function (free food and alcohol) and my parents coming down for a long weekend (free Babysitters!)

Now I'm stuck with 2 screaming hellspawn trying to kill each other.

Suffice to say, I'm not amused.

[jim.cox]

I was 2 days away from a Work function (free food and alcohol)

It makes no difference how much free food and alcohol they offer - work functions are absolute hell to me. Must be something to do with the people attending...


Now I'm stuck with 2 screaming hellspawn trying to kill each other.

That's what you get for being a DemonLord I guess

They're still better company than "Management" and their arse-licking suck-ups

[TheDemonLord]

It makes no difference how much free food and alcohol they offer - work functions are absolute hell to me. Must be something to do with the people attending...

Our management (currently) is pretty awesome, so it's not too bad.


That's what you get for being a DemonLord I guess

They're still better company than "Management" and their arse-licking suck-ups

Oh, their worst habits are all inheritied from me, that's what makes it so damn annoying!

I dunno, Management have never pissed on my Carpet.... yet....

[jim.cox]

Management have never pissed on my Carpet.... yet....

I was referring to their sycophantic acolytes (HR especially), rather than more than their actions...

[Stylo]

I was referring to their sycophantic acolytes (HR especially), rather than more than their actions...

Registered for the saliva test with my Android phone, first test sample dropped off this morning. Negative result transmitted a couple of hours ago. Not bad.

[pritch]

The Pfizer jab now has FDA approval. Thos means for instance that militaries can require their people to be vaccinated.

Then there's Brent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNApu4myfLs

[Viking01]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/australia/300389925/covid19-australian-pm-slams-nzs-approach-hits-back-at-state-opposition-to-covidnormal

[MarkH]

I've read about tracking chips in the vaccine and 5G, sounds interesting. I've had my first jab, but no GPS tracking or 5G - when do I get these? Do they not activate until the 2nd jab? I'm hoping to not get lost even without my phone, so the GPS tracking will be really cool. I want the 5G for faster data, does anyone know what the data limits are on the 5G that comes in the vaccine?

Please answer my very important questions!

[F5 Dave]

Good old ScoMo. Yeah mate. Just 'cause you've given up doesn't mean we will lie down next to you without giving it a shot.

Fuckwit.

[husaberg]

Good old ScoMo. Yeah mate. Just 'cause you've given up doesn't mean we will lie down next to you without giving it a shot.

Fuckwit.

he's bleeting on the 70%-80% as that was what was projected for herd immunity. Only issue is its no longer relevent.
It would have been if the world had controlled the outbreak earlier and it might not have mutated so effectively so fast with better controls.
But you instead had idiots like Scomo Boris and Trumpy calling it a cold, nothing to worry about.

Head of Oxford Vaccine Group rules out overall immunity, Delta variant renders herd immunity from Covid ‘mythical’
Giving evidence to MPs on Tuesday, Prof Sir Andrew Pollard said the fact that vaccines did not stop the spread of Covid meant reaching the threshold for overall immunity in the population was “mythical”.
“The problem with this virus is [it is] not measles. If 95% of people were vaccinated against measles, the virus cannot transmit in the population,” he told the all-party parliamentary group (APPG) on coronavirus.

[pete376403]

feeling more than a bit pissed that one of the major superspreader groups is a bunch of people who dont trust vaccinations because they dont know whats in it, but more than happy to believe in a sky fairy even when said sky fairy is incapable of halting the virus

[husaberg]

feeling more than a bit pissed that one of the major superspreader groups is a bunch of people who dont trust vaccinations because they dont know whats in it, but more than happy to believe in a sky fairy even when said sky fairy is incapable of halting the virus

You inspired me to look https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samoan_Assemblies_of_God_in_New_Zealand_Incorporat ed
looks like they are pretty vanilla and actually more progressive than a lot of Sky pixie followers.
They are pretty chill on homosexuals, say no to alcohol but yet believe in demons and the rapture and 1000 year Reich (okay 1000 year reign of christ)
they appear to say no to hiding if their members sexually assault minors.
But say there will be a final judgment and eternal damnation for the "wicked dead" plus believe in the always popular Faith healing.
I am not sure why the church needs to be an incorporated society rather than a charitable trust though Any Accountants care to guess?

what does stand really out is the class of footy players they produce.
Ali Lauitiiti
Eroni Clarke
Jerome Kaino
Kahn Fotuali'i
Liam Messam
Matt Utai
Maalili Muliaina
Roger Tuivasa-Sheck

[pritch]

Good old ScoMo. Yeah mate. Just 'cause you've given up doesn't mean we will lie down next to you without giving it a shot.
Fuckwit.

He fucked up so we should too. OK. :whistle:

[Viking01]

I've read about tracking chips in the vaccine and 5G, sounds interesting. I've had my first jab, but no GPS tracking or 5G - when do I get these? Do they not activate until the 2nd jab? I'm hoping to not get lost even without my phone, so the GPS tracking will be really cool. I want the 5G for faster data, does anyone know what the data limits are on the 5G that comes in the vaccine?

Please answer my very important questions!

MarkH,

Afternoon.

Regarding your earlier enquiry about micro-chips and 5G (post #954), I don’t think I’m qualified to be able to answer your questions, but I'm willing to give it a go. Though you may not like the answers.

Microchips in the Vaccine
Despite a number of people telling me I should go to hell, I had always thought that I would apply for heaven first. But I failed the entry test (threading a camel through the eye of the needle). I can tell you that it's harder than it looks.

The point is, despite my own personal shortcomings, I have to admit admiration for those companies able to build a microchip small enough to fit through a needle.

GPS Tracking
I’m not sure that you quite understand the GPS tracking aspect of this project.

GPS tracking was not for your benefit. It was for the benefit of the Gods - more commonly known by their monikers Bill G, Jeff B and Mark Z - to allow them to track you (and your purchases, of course). You should always read the fine print.

But like many things rushed to market (not that I'm saying the Covid vaccines were rushed), important little features sometimes get overlooked.

Like, how long do the batteries for these micro-chips typically last, and how do you change or charge up the batteries?

You don't know, do you ? Well, I'm happy to share a little secret with you.

You know those flexible WiFi charging mats that you can use for your mobile phone? Well, they work a treat. Just bind one to your arm with a velcro strap (where you had the vaccine injection), two hours on the charger, and you'll be good to go. And the Gods will thank you (from the bottom of their balance sheets).

Admitting fault is not easy when you’re a God, and they obviously didn't realise the magnitude of this charging problem until after vaccine rollout was already well under way.

Which explains why they are currently promoting booster shots. It's much cheaper (more profitable) just to inject a new chip with an improved battery.

The current micro-chips only have to last six to eight months. And you'll be back for a replacement next year when the next Covid virus strain is issued. I mean, mutates.

I should mention that they were originally thinking about going nuclear, but with all the negative press about alpha particles causing mutations to human DNA, they thought it might hinder the rollout of vaccines. In the end, the Gods put it to a vote and rejected the idea.

Though I have to tell you the vote was close. Obviously, this being a God is big business, and involves a large number of commercial endorsements. But fortunately, in this instance, common (dollars and) cents prevailed.

5G
Like you, the Gods are also interested in 5G (because of its increased speed). But in their case, it’s all to do with commercial data acquisition and supply arrangements.

It is no surprise that NZ Police want data to find when you’ve been out and about (when you shouldn't be), and that MOT want to remotely interrogate your motorcycle (for instances of speeding).

But what might not be common knowledge is that they are currently waiting for drones and drone tracking to become more widely available. And 5G will provide much faster real-time acquisition of location data (you).

I have it on totally unreliable authority that following the recent change in management in Afghanistan, the US military is now keen to contract out their UAV “tracking and enforcement services” to other interested organisations. And given there is now a surplus of loitering munitions, well, I think you can read between the lines.

So, provided the NZ government draws the Covid enforcement line well north of Hamilton, those of you in Morrinsville should still be safe (from a rocket up the exhaust pipe).

I hope that answers your questions.

Cheers, Viking

[F5 Dave]

Meh. Mark's post was far funnier.

Brevity and mock ignorance can be your allies.

[nerrrd]

My vaccination has become a journey too.

Booked when I could, first jab was scheduled for today, then they closed the vaccination centre.

Not to worry, I can go to the drive through centre out at the airport at the same time but I have to have someone come with me. Except I don't have a car and I'm in a bubble of one.

So back to the booking site, soonest I can get another booking is at the same centre that they closed but now I have to wait till October.

DAMMIT!

[pete376403]

Microchip in needle is easy. Getting the batteries in, however...

[husaberg]

feeling more than a bit pissed that one of the major superspreader groups is a bunch of people who dont trust vaccinations because they dont know whats in it, but more than happy to believe in a sky fairy even when said sky fairy is incapable of halting the virus


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KbNe9oct_0

[pritch]

feeling more than a bit pissed that one of the major superspreader groups is a bunch of people who dont trust vaccinations because they dont know whats in it, but more than happy to believe in a sky fairy even when said sky fairy is incapable of halting the virus

That's not just an Aucklad problem. The link below features the Governor of Mississippi. In normal circumstances his state (ranked 50th in the USA) has an average life expectancy equal with Bangladesh.

Many people would rate Bangladesh a shit hole country, to quote TFG. On that basis Mississippi would seem to qualify as a shit hole too.

https://deadstate.org/mississippis-gop-governor-were-less-scared-of-covid-because-we-believe-in-eternal-life/

[pritch]

Ivermectin animal treatments are sold out in rural parts of the USA where people are taking it as prophylaxis against COVID. Some people are even giving it to their kids. On the basis that they don't know what's in the vaccine, they are feeding something that they don't know contains a neuro toxin to their kids. The Poison control people thorughout those states have been inundated with calls, and overloaded hospitals have had to admit people suffering Ivermectin overdoses.

Notwithstanding this mass stupidity some of the less scrupulous, or less intelligent, politicians are encouraging the behaviour.

There are those though who can see the funny side.

[pritch]

And the insanity continues.

Kid Rock and his band played Sturgis. He posted a somewhat gloating message on Twitter which is attached. It seems he was under the impression he was fighting the media. No, he was challenging a virus. He has now announced that upcoming concert dates are cancelled because several band members have COVID.

[pritch]

Seemingly every day I see one or two of these now. Loud proud antivaxxers: radio hosts, politicians, or whatever. Here today gone tomorrow.

"Back in early August, vocal anti-vaccine, long-time right wing Daytona Beach radio talk show host Marc Bernier entered the hospital with Covid-19 still saying it "was just like the flu, only a little worse".

This morning he is in the morgue."

[Blackbird]

BBC World Service has a programme talking with key scientists throughout the world. It's 50 minutes long but brings a clarity to the current situation which is hard to find whilst sorting through the vast amounts of crap out there: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct2jnk?xtor=ES-212-%5B46852_worldservicenewsletter020921%5D-20210902-%5Bbbcrworldservice_evidence_restrictions_headline %5D .

[pete376403]

The final seven steps of the journey (when neither hopes and prayers, nor the horse wormer treatment work)
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/us-hospital-worker-reveals-the-horrific-seven-stages-a-covid-19-patient-endures-before-succumbing-to-the-disease/DMELDEEMOBEIVBN4XHZBUJQOH4/

[Berries]

And the seven stages of love for those of you in Auckland based on the comments in this story.

Why we should all heart Auckland (https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126311127/covid19-aucklands-long-stay-at-alert-level-4-has-earned-the-nations-aroha--will-it-be-forthcoming#comments)

[pritch]

I saw a Facebook exchange yesterday indicating some strange attitudes. There was a post saying over 700 people in NZ had died of complications of the vaccine. Vaccine was spelt wrong. "To avoid the algorithms." That hadn't worked because the post was accompanied by the normal link to correct information.

As to the 700 plus deaths I doubt that but I don't know so we'll leave that. I was informed though that the NZ government is pursuing a policy of depopulation. It must be the strangest depopulation policy ever.

COVID deaths per million population (rounded):

UK 2000
USA 1900
NZ 5

[husaberg]

I saw a Facebook exchange yesterday indicating some strange attitudes. There was a post saying over 700 people in NZ had died of complications of the vaccine. Vaccine was spelt wrong. "To avoid the algorithms." That hadn't worked because the post was accompanied by the normal link to correct information.

As to the 700 plus deaths I doubt that but I don't know so we'll leave that. I was informed though that the NZ government is pursuing a policy of depopulation. It must be the strangest depopulation policy ever.

COVID deaths per million population (rounded):

UK 2000
USA 1900
NZ 5

Maybe its a policy of repopulation with a new darwin theory of "survivial of the non thickest."

[F5 Dave]

Those 700 have been covered up by the Elite Marxist Presbyterian Press (clue is in the name. Press-byterian- see? Proves it!).
But those 700 are very real. I should know, I met someone, no I am one of those, wait, I'm several of those 700 who have died as a result of vaccine complications.

Then she turned me into a Newt.

[caspernz]

BBC World Service has a programme talking with key scientists throughout the world. It's 50 minutes long but brings a clarity to the current situation which is hard to find whilst sorting through the vast amounts of crap out there: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/w3ct2jnk?xtor=ES-212-%5B46852_worldservicenewsletter020921%5D-20210902-%5Bbbcrworldservice_evidence_restrictions_headline %5D .

Intelligent information from reputable sources, thanks for sharing :niceone:

[Blackbird]

Intelligent information from reputable sources, thanks for sharing :niceone:

Most welcome Rob. Finding unbiased and clearly articulated info is pure gold :2thumbsup

[sugilite]

A little light relief for those covid blues....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ixf-tXN2ux0

[mashman]

One in the eye for Stephen Fry...

Large scale ivermectin distribution and its epidemiological consequences (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2198750/)... and various other articles showing just how long Ivermectin has been in large scale use... but hey, ya'll prefer horse shit ;)

[pete376403]

One in the eye for Stephen Fry...

Large scale ivermectin distribution and its epidemiological consequences (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2198750/)... and various other articles showing just how long Ivermectin has been in large scale use... but hey, ya'll prefer horse shit ;)

Yes but for worms, not covid:(

[mashman]

Yes but for worms, not covid:(

Not on its own, but not as bad for hoomans as is touted either.

[husaberg]

Not on its own, but not as bad for hoomans as is touted either.

So you will be willing to take 60ml orally then.

[F5 Dave]

Anally more like.

[husaberg]

Anally more like.
Post of the week.

[pritch]

Not on its own, but not as bad for hoomans as is touted either.

Ivermectin is used for humans - in the appropriate dose. Idiots buying medication intended for an animal several times their size, and taking a wild guess at a dose, can definitely be harmful to their health. As witnessed by the many calls to poison centres in the US.

[husaberg]

Ivermectin is used for humans - in the appropriate dose. Idiots buying medication intended for an animal several times their size, and taking a wild guess at a dose, can definitely be harmful to their health. As witnessed by the many calls to poison centres in the US.
Yes there are licensed treatments for worms etc in Humans , but ivermectin and its family is generally used as a ""pour on treatment for livestock. although there are injectable sub cutaneous versions and a few oral versions (horses mainly).
I witnessed someone killing livestock when they oral drenched some cattle with ivermectin or avermectin drench pour on once. I cant remember the mortality but it was about 33%

I have posted the story about where the compounds were discovered previously it was the best thing ever for cattle as it didn't need to be applied orally and was long-acting but i haven't seen any trial data for covid

https://www.isglobal.org/en/healthisglobal/-/custom-blog-portlet/ivermectina-del-suelo-a-las-lombrices-y-mas-alla/3098670/0
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3043740/
https://www.msdvetmanual.com/pharmacology/anthelmintics/macrocyclic-lactones


But why someone would need to take untested drug therapies when Trump said covid was a non event, no worse the the flu is a little puzzling.

We have it totally under control. It’s one person coming in from China, and we have it under control. It’s going to be just fine.”
— President Trump,

The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. We are in contact with everyone and all relevant countries. CDC & World Health have been working hard and very smart. Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”

— Trump tweet.

“When you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”
— Trump,

“It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle,

During that March 4 call with Hannity, Trump also compared coronavirus with the flu. He mentioned that the flu kills anywhere between 27,000 and 77,000 people every year, implying that coronavirus isn’t as serious of a threat to public health as Influenza.t will disappear”
1. Denies WHO's coronavirus death rate based on “hunch"
2. Calls coronavirus "corona flu"
3. Suggests it's fine for people w/ Covid-19 to go to work
4. Compares coronavirus to "the regular flu," indicating he doesn't get the difference
https://twitter.com/i/status/1235411751950221312

The US was “most prepared country in the world”
4. Compares coronavirus to "the regular flu," indicating he doesn't get the difference

[MarkH]

I've gone with the radical treatment of 2 doses of Pfizer vaccine, so far no adverse side effects.
I'll give Ivermectin a pass as I'm not a horse and I don't have worms.

[mashman]

Ivermectin is used for humans - in the appropriate dose. Idiots buying medication intended for an animal several times their size, and taking a wild guess at a dose, can definitely be harmful to their health. As witnessed by the many calls to poison centres in the US.

As well as Ivermectin also having been used successfully for approximately the last year as a part 'prophylactic' for Covid in a few places around the globe... yeah, ya gotta wonder how come there's so much misinformation out there that people can get the dosage wrong. Couldn't be anything to do with the media could it? Coz there certainly seems to be fuck all science involved.

[husaberg]

As well as Ivermectin also having been used successfully for approximately the last year as a part 'prophylactic' for Covid in a few places around the globe... yeah, ya gotta wonder how come there's so much misinformation out there that people can get the dosage wrong. Couldn't be anything to do with the media could it? Coz there certainly seems to be fuck all science involved.

If this is the case you will be able to non-chalanged post peer viewed studies showing its efficacy then with no issues then.

btw what you intend to use (https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/pages/default.aspx) has been debunked.
https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678

[F5 Dave]

And that is why mashhad is a Cunt.

Spreading misinformation that could hurt people.

Mashman you are a Cunt.

[mashman]

And that is why mashhad is a Cunt.

Spreading misinformation that could hurt people.

Mashman you are a Cunt.

And you're an idiot... unless, of course, this time, by some miracle of God, you have some form of proof of the things that you are accusing me of and are capable of dealing with logic, reason and common sense despite your many attempts to ram your words down my throat?

No? Thought not. That, according to the evidence to date, makes you a compete fucking idiot. Now cry me a river son, you've filled the pond.

[F5 Dave]

Fortunately I can't read what you've said. Please don't quote the lying prick.

[mashman]

Fortunately I can't read what you've said. Please don't quote the lying prick.

So you admit that you don't even know what you're calling me a cunt over :niceone: :killingme

[husaberg]

Fortunately I can't read what you've said. Please don't quote the lying prick.

He said your mother had a shapely figure and your own personal hygiene was beyond repute.
No surprise that he never admitted he doesn't actually have any medical training and that he doesn't have any real logical response to why he should claim to know more than a doctor or the rest of the reputable medical community, other than to say he believes he is a political genius and his mummy owned an unsuccessful sweet shop.

[F5 Dave]

I spoke to someone yesterday who has become vaccine hesitant. I was shocked. But he's read some misinformation and is now concerned.

For fucks sake you stupid fucks, we need to get incredibly high coverage to get somewhere near protection. Spouting shit even if you think you are expressing your freedom to be a unique intellect, has repercussions.

Concentrate on flat earth theory or something that is fairly harmless.

[Grumph]

I spoke to someone yesterday who has become vaccine hesitant. I was shocked. But he's read some misinformation and is now concerned.

For fucks sake you stupid fucks, we need to get incredibly high coverage to get somewhere near protection. Spouting shit even if you think you are expressing your freedom to be a unique intellect, has repercussions.

Concentrate on flat earth theory or something that is fairly harmless.

In ChCh hospital the last few days. Struck one porter who started moaning about how he could not recommend the power of prayer over Covid - or suggest it as a vaccine alternative. On pain of being arrested.I shut him down fast and hard to the point where he was glad to see the back of me. And went away probably wondering if I'd report him.
Next porter I saw, I asked the hospital policy on vaccinations for staff. Highly recommended - but not compulsory. That porter was not surprised to hear of his workmate's attitude. says they have 2 or 3 like that on staff.

And heard the other day of a racer well known to some on here who's a vigorous anti-vaccer on Fbook. When he comes to collect his bikes here, they'll be outside the gate, No vacc - no entry.

[george formby]

I suspect we are at the beginning of a big fracture in Western society, anti vax opinions just being one catalyst.

Most folk still have good sense and a bit of trust in the powers that be but the number of people going down the conspiracy rabbit hole of the internet is growing. Or glued to biased media channels. And once they start there is no coming back, the algorithms keep on feeding more and more mis-information. It's well documented how this happens and any fact can easily be argued against.

Effectively anything we see on teh internets could be fact or fake.

Not enough people realise that most of the mis-information is cynically posted for personal gain - profit.

We will get on top of Covid but the real pandemic is the slow break down of trust and community, where this leads I don't know but the internet is facilitating some terrible things.

An extreme example is ISIS, they could not have existed without the internet and social media. I need not mention MAGA.

The vitriol posted on our wee NZ KB forum is a drop in the ocean, it's happening everywhere.

I see no solution, anyone drawing a line in the sand is perceived to be curtailing freedom.

Sorry all, a bit off topic but this is something which has been bouncing around in my head for a long time. I find it pretty scary.

[R650R]

I suspect we are at the beginning of a big fracture in Western society, anti vax opinions just being one catalyst.

Most folk still have good sense and a bit of trust in the powers that be but the number of people going down the conspiracy rabbit hole of the internet is growing. Or glued to biased media channels. And once they start there is no coming back, the algorithms keep on feeding more and more mis-information. It's well documented how this happens and any fact can easily be argued against.

Effectively anything we see on teh internets could be fact or fake.

Not enough people realise that most of the mis-information is cynically posted for personal gain - profit.

We will get on top of Covid but the real pandemic is the slow break down of trust and community, where this leads I don't know but the internet is facilitating some terrible things.

An extreme example is ISIS, they could not have existed without the internet and social media. I need not mention MAGA.

The vitriol posted on our wee NZ KB forum is a drop in the ocean, it's happening everywhere.

I see no solution, anyone drawing a line in the sand is perceived to be curtailing freedom.

Sorry all, a bit off topic but this is something which has been bouncing around in my head for a long time. I find it pretty scary.

You are 100% correct and this has all been predicted, classic case of problem-reaction-solution
With they creating or capitalising on a problem, stoking thecteaction through media manipulation in mainstream and alternative channels so we beg for their favoured solution.

Divide and conquer has been used by the ruling classes for centuries along with the distraction of bread and circus routines.

We all must be like monks chill out and not fight amongst ourselves.
We must just accept the crappality of what our lives are now.
The last thing we need is a revolution too as history has shown that always results in a worse person taking power and personally I wouldnÂ’t want to be living in a witch-hunt era.
On the plus side newly formed oppressive totalitarian regimes usually collapse under their own restrictions after about ten years.....

What I find funny is people can clearly see CIA sponsored colour revolutions happening in foreign countries but donÂ’t think the same can happen to us.
Thankfully we did not have a race war in western society after the fentanyl George debacle, although they usually have a few practice runs before they get their events running properly.

We must stop using the two sided pigeon hole game eg antivax. For example if you own a HONDA that does not make you anti Kawasaki, it just means you canÂ’t afford an H2R right now.

That I word crowd is just the mujihadden rebranded and havet been there but I donÂ’t think their internet coverage be very good in desert. Also they donÂ’t have Toyota dealer in desert but they had a whole fleet of brand new mil spec hiluxes in repo white, wonder where they came from.

Turn your tv off and fear ends then operate the following loop solution.....

Do I live there (where the drama/problem/event) ? No
Does it affect me right now? No
Am
I going there? No
So do I have anything to be worried about then? No

[husaberg]

https://www.science.org/news/2020/07/how-bats-have-outsmarted-viruses-including-coronaviruses-65-million-years

How bats have outsmarted viruses—including coronaviruses—for 65 million years
Newly sequenced genomes reveal the secrets of their “superstar” immune systems
Although the SARS-CoV-2 virus has sickened more than 14 million people, bats contract similar viruses all the time without experiencing any known symptoms. Now, the newly sequenced genomes of six species spanning the bat family tree reveal how they've been outsmarting viruses for 65 million years.



To discover their secrets, an international consortium launched the Bat1k project, which stands for bat 1000, in 2017 to sequence the genomes of all bat species. Six of those genomes are now complete, the consortium reports today in Nature.

The genomes are more thorough and more accurate than previously sequenced bat genomes, says Jon Epstein, a disease ecologist at EcoHealth Alliance who was not involved with the work. "That allows [researchers] to make some strong comparisons with other animals, including humans."

The researchers in the consortium did just that, comparing the newly sequenced genomes with those of 42 other mammals, from manatees to people. They found that the bats' closest relatives aren't tree shrews, flying lemurs, or even mice (as has been proposed); instead, they formed their own group early on that may share a common ancestor with the mammals that eventually evolved into horses, pangolins, whales, and dogs.

Further analysis revealed bats have disabled at least 10 genes that other mammals use to mount inflammatory responses against infection. But they also have extra copies and modifications of antiviral genes that may explain their high tolerance for disease. Finally, their genome is littered with DNA pieces derived from past viral infections that got incorporated when the viral genomes were replicated.

"These nonbat genes leave a kind of medical record … a diary of previous infections," Yohe says. That diary reveals that bats have probably had more viral infections than all other mammals over time and have even been infected by viruses thought only to attack birds, the team reports. "The findings highlight bats' ability to tolerate and survive viral infections more efficiently than other mammals," says Sharlene Santana, an evolutionary biologist at the University of Washington, Seattle.

[F5 Dave]

In ChCh hospital the last few days. Struck one porter who started moaning about how he could not recommend the power of prayer over Covid - or suggest it as a vaccine alternative. On pain of being arrested.I shut him down fast and hard to the point where he was glad to see the back of me. And went away probably wondering if I'd report him.
Next porter I saw, I asked the hospital policy on vaccinations for staff. Highly recommended - but not compulsory. That porter was not surprised to hear of his workmate's attitude. says they have 2 or 3 like that on staff.

And heard the other day of a racer well known to some on here who's a vigorous anti-vaccer on Fbook. When he comes to collect his bikes here, they'll be outside the gate, No vacc - no entry.
So I wonder how they console away the fact the biggest cluster currently is a church?

Wrong God? Or God doesn't like dark skinned people? Either way the power of Christian hate is evident.

[MarkH]

I asked the hospital policy on vaccinations for staff. Highly recommended - but not compulsory.

That is ridiculous! They should have a policy of vaccinate or lose your job, then that policy should spread to wherever there is heightened risk of coming into contact with Covid - Most essential workers, supermarket staff, fast food workers, receptionists, shop assistants, etc. If you want to be anti-vax you should have a job where you don't interact with other people! Also, being vaccinated should be mandatory for a lot of other places and activities - we should prioritise the safety of the community in general over catering for the anti-science nut-jobs.

[Grumph]

That is ridiculous! They should have a policy of vaccinate or lose your job, then that policy should spread to wherever there is heightened risk of coming into contact with Covid - Most essential workers, supermarket staff, fast food workers, receptionists, shop assistants, etc. If you want to be anti-vax you should have a job where you don't interact with other people! Also, being vaccinated should be mandatory for a lot of other places and activities - we should prioritise the safety of the community in general over catering for the anti-science nut-jobs.

I've since heard elsewhere that they're not compelling existing staff to vaccinate - but new intake staff are required to.
Could be a good opportunity to weed out the nutters. Except that it's hard to fill those positions.