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husaberg
16th December 2021, 19:56
Stalin or the Muslims or the feminista?

TheDemonLord
16th December 2021, 20:06
Stalin or the Muslims or the feminista?

Well...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxist_feminism


With the emergence of intersectionality[19] as a widely popular theory of current feminism, Marxist feminists remain critical of its reliance on bourgeois identity politics.[20] Intersectionality operates in Marxist feminism as a lens to view the interaction of different aspects of identity as a result of structured, systematic oppression.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersectionality

What exactly is the difference between two of those?

husaberg
16th December 2021, 20:10
so it's with the shapeshifting aliens as well?.......

TheDemonLord
16th December 2021, 21:09
so it with the shapeshifting aliens as well.......

I mean, you tried to mock me for conflating Feminism with Marxism - and when I point out, using Wikipedia (not exactly a far-right source) that yes, the current most prominent strain of Feminism (Intersectionality) has deep Marxist roots, you're trying to play that off as a Conspiracy Theory?

When the Academics themselves cite Marx and Marxist theory - where is the Conspiracy?

Or is it just a little to inconvenient that I might be right all along...

TheDemonLord
17th December 2021, 18:38
So the tin foil keep in your thoughts or does it keep out the mind control rays from the 5g and the lizard men.

That depends - Is Intersectional Feminism and Critical Race Theory derived from Marxism, via Antonio Gramsci?

And here's the pro-hint The Authors of those ideas explicitly state it is.

Or are you just going to deny reality? I mean it's kinda telling that you accuse me of Conspiracy thought, when you are the one that is refusing to accept what is plainly stated by the people you are defending.

One might conjecture that your accusation is merely projection....

sugilite
17th December 2021, 18:57
Wow, after reading all your posts on marxism in the USA makes it look like it must be a fast growing movement huh. Pretty much highlights how the current system has become so corrupt it is pushing many towards a revolution. How fortunate the marxists have the 2nd amendment, so they can rise up in armed force against the tyranny of Government - yes?

F5 Dave
17th December 2021, 19:25
What's the fascination with a country overseas?. Do you want to move there? Or do you just absorb its fringe bullshit?

Site here is Kiwi. . . Biker. Are you either?

TheDemonLord
17th December 2021, 19:38
What's the fascination with a country overseas?. Do you want to move there? Or do you just absorb its fringe bullshit?

Site here is Kiwi. . . Biker. Are you either?

What starts in America (well, Germany and France if you go back far enough, like all bad ideas...) Gets imported to here. 10 years ago, when this stuff was first being bandied about - The Conservative types then said 'it's just silly nonsense in the Universities and on Tumblr - it will stay there' - it didn't. HR Departments of Big Corporations looooove pushing this crap. Think of all the Woke Adverts we've seen. Think of all the Film and TV Franchises that have been radically altered (and destroyed) upon the altar of Wokeness. It's not Fringe Bullshit, it's a Cancer.

Stalinda and the Watermelon party have also championed the same old claims. Consider this - why did we have BLM protested in Auckland and Wellington? What did NZ Cops have to do with George Floyd, yet they protested anyway.

Jacinda has discussed the idea of removing Statues, instead of telling the Marxists to Fuck off.

So Yeah, the Fascination then is peeking into the future to see what might happen.

TheDemonLord
17th December 2021, 19:49
Wow, after reading all your posts on marxism in the USA makes it look like it must be a fast growing movement huh.

I would say more like 'Festering' - and specifically it's festering at the Middle Management layer. Here's the thing though - Do you dispute the claim I'm making? If so, what is your standard of proof to demonstrate that certain Ideologies have Marxist roots? What is your standard I have to meet to show it's wormed it's way into The business world, the Entertainment world, Public discourse etc?

There's a point when you'll either go in reverse like Husa or you'll see the clear evidence for yourself that I was right all along (even if you may still think some of the more extrapolated conclusions are a bridge too far).


Pretty much highlights how the current system has become so corrupt it is pushing many towards a revolution.

Which system though? I don't put this down as a failure of the Governmental System per se, but more a failure of the University System and more specifically - a Failure to assert Liberal Principles when they are undermined by Marxist Academics.

Well, that and funding Marxist scholars since the 1960s....

(McCarthy's only crime was not going far enough....)


How fortunate the marxists have the 2nd amendment, so they can rise up in armed force against the tyranny of Government - yes?

Absolutely.

And I'll place my Money on the Kyles of Kenosha vs the Marxists any day of the week. And I'm not even joking on that - you've got your Academically trained, wannabe revolutionaries vs the Group that literally Loves Guns, Loves God, Loves 'Murica, Goes to the Range everyday and firmly believes in their individual rights.

Who would you side with? The Redneck with his AR strapped to his back, who might say the wrong thing about the wrong person occassionally - or the University educated Revolutionary who thinks it's right to burn down buildings because of Structural oppression?

pete376403
17th December 2021, 21:27
[QUOTE=TheDemonLord;1131194699
Who would you side with? The Redneck with his AR strapped to his back, who might say the wrong thing about the wrong person occassionally - or the University educated Revolutionary who thinks it's right to burn down buildings because of Structural oppression?[/QUOTE]

To paraphrase = do you side with the person who thinks it is ok to destroy property or do you side with the person who thinks it is ok to kill?

TheDemonLord
17th December 2021, 21:51
To paraphrase = do you side with the person who thinks it is ok to destroy property or do you side with the person who thinks it is ok to kill?

Did the Communists, in any of their revolutions, stop at merely destroying Property?

And do you think it's okay to Kill someone, who is trying to destroy you, your way of life and your entire existence?

That's the option you've got.

And based on History - I know which I'd prefer and I've got a good idea as to which side will win.

R650R
17th December 2021, 22:50
And here is your weekly reminder that all the Fascists were Former Communists...

Funny that...

😂😂😂😂😂

Isn’t it funny that a short time ago in history National Socialists (nazi) were at war with communist/Marxist/socialist Russia while being aided by the Fascist dictatorship of Mussolini’s Italy in the fight against the predominantly Christian capitalist western nations.... yet people think now there’s only two options....

Jim marrs had the definition right, fascism being the merger of state and corporate powers which is just what hitler has with the mostly corporate owned slave labour camps...,

Even more funny when you look st standard of living in all current or gormer commie countries....

*insert random YouTube vid here of any Russian/east European student whose emigrated to a western nation*

pritch
18th December 2021, 07:28
That depends - Is Intersectional Feminism and Critical Race Theory derived from Marxism, via Antonio Gramsci?

And here's the pro-hint The Authors of those ideas explicitly state it is.

Or are you just going to deny reality? I mean it's kinda telling that you accuse me of Conspiracy thought, when you are the one that is refusing to accept what is plainly stated by the people you are defending.

One might conjecture that your accusation is merely projection....

I can't verify it, but I can't believe anything you read about CRT has any basis in reality. The Republicans are using it to keep the base (and you) riled up. The CRT they talk about has no connection to the actual academic subject taught as part of a law degree. I hope nobody here is dim enough to suggest that race is not a major factor in the US justice system. CRT isn't taught in schools and it certainly isn't taught in kindergarten as stated by Senator Johnson.

TheDemonLord
18th December 2021, 15:05
I can't verify it,

That's an absolute Cop-out. I've posted multiple quotes, University citations, Scholarly works that back this up, Set your standard of Proof, I'll be happy to meet it.


but I can't believe anything you read about CRT has any basis in reality.

So, when I post post direct quotes by prominent 'Scholars' in CRT - can you believe that? Or will you again look the other way and decline to comment.


The Republicans are using it to keep the base (and you) riled up. The CRT they talk about has no connection to the actual academic subject taught as part of a law degree.

Considering that you either refuse to read the actual works by the CRT authors, you're in no position to say what it does and does not have a connection with.


I hope nobody here is dim enough to suggest that race is not a major factor in the US justice system.

Depends on how you define 'Major Factor' - One of the Claims made in CRT is that the purpose of the Legal system is to perpetuate the dominance of Whiteness against Blackness.

Now, I can grant you the US has had racial issues, but I want to focus on the Legal aspect, because I think it's where the Fundamental claim is most absurd. The US Legal system is derived from English Common Law. Which has it's origins in around 1215, In England.

How many Black People or 'People of Colour' do you think existed in England in 1215? Enough for the foundational Legal system to be derived in order to keep them down?

If memory serves, the first Documented Black Person in England wasn't until Henry the 8th, some 250 years later.

Now, we can say that due historical Prejudices, there have been very clear instances where Race has played a factor, no one denies that - but that was down (in most cases) due to either prejudiced Cops, Judges or Communities - the claim that the whole system is racist is absurd, on multiple fronts.


CRT isn't taught in schools and it certainly isn't taught in kindergarten as stated by Senator Johnson.

If it's not taught in schools, then there's no problem with banning it in Schools...

But as I said in the other thread - the problem isn't that the Academic subject of CRT is being taught in Kindergarten, it's that the assumptions of CRT are being taught.

Or perhaps to put it another way to help you understand: A Christian would be correct to say that Theology and Bible Studies weren't being taught in Kindergarten, but if you heard a Kindergarten teacher say 'There is only one God, and on the 7th day of Creation, he rested' - We would be absolute correct to say that the beliefs of Christianity are being taught, even if the Academic itself subject wasn't, and we'd be justified to call for it to be banned.

There's plenty of examples of School curriculums that cite CRT as a framework or reference specific works by the likes of Kimberle Crenshaw, Ibram X Kendi etc.

R650R
18th December 2021, 18:32
Depends on how you define 'Major Factor' - One of the Claims made in CRT is that the purpose of the Legal system is to perpetuate the dominance of Whiteness against Blackness.

Now, I can grant you the US has had racial issues, but I want to focus on the Legal aspect, because I think it's where the Fundamental claim is most absurd. The US Legal system is derived from English Common Law. Which has it's origins in around 1215, In England.

How many Black People or 'People of Colour' do you think existed in England in 1215? Enough for the foundational Legal system to be derived in order to keep them down?

If memory serves, the first Documented Black Person in England wasn't until Henry the 8th, some 250 years later.

Now, we can say that due historical Prejudices, there have been very clear instances where Race has played a factor, no one denies that - but that was down (in most cases) due to either prejudiced Cops, Judges or Communities - the claim that the whole system is racist is absurd, on multiple fronts.
.

Absolute GOLD... pity media can’t join the dots like that....

Back to thread topic add on radio says have a covid plan if you test positive while on holiday... I don’t see what choices any plan would have when dept of health would be effectively putting you under house arrest where ever you are....anyone else with you would be a close contact and not allowed to go anywhere either...

F5 Dave
18th December 2021, 19:48
The Radio you say? Does that still exist for old folk like you?

You two should get together as the most disrespected entities on this website.

husaberg
18th December 2021, 21:12
it says a lot for how much down the conspiracy rabbit hole that TLDR has gone that R101R and him are in total agreement...:lol:

TheDemonLord
18th December 2021, 21:16
it says a lot for how much down the conspiracy rabbit hole that TLDR has gone that R101R and him are in total agreement...:lol:

Total Agreement? There's many things that R650 says I don't agree with... but those things aren't of interest to me.

And I'll ask - you wanna set the standard of proof about Marxism and Intersectional Feminism? Or are you going to cry Conspiracy whilst simultaneously denying what the people actually say...

Berries
22nd December 2021, 08:59
Intersectional Feminism.
I knew there was a reason women led the stats on red light running and failure to give way.

pete376403
27th December 2021, 20:26
Brian Tamaki - "I'll stand down there and I'll take that school apart. If you go in there with your wagon, I'll tow your wagon away and I'll get the boys to blow it up and all your syringes, we'll run you out of town." referring to vaccination centres. Is there any reason this prick is not being charged with inciting terrorism?

husaberg
27th December 2021, 21:15
Is there any reason this prick is not being charged with inciting terrorism?
Because he's not Muslim.

FJRider
27th December 2021, 23:35
it says a lot for how much down the conspiracy rabbit hole that TLDR has gone that R101R and him are in total agreement...:lol:

I just hope that pair aren't breeding ... :shifty:

R650R
28th December 2021, 09:52
Brian Tamaki - "I'll stand down there and I'll take that school apart. If you go in there with your wagon, I'll tow your wagon away and I'll get the boys to blow it up and all your syringes, we'll run you out of town." referring to vaccination centres. Is there any reason this prick is not being charged with inciting terrorism?

Cause the tooth fairy is all about kindness and woke politics. She is not going to alienate a large part of her voter base by having one law for all......

Hang on she’s going live at an emergency press conference now on Al Wokistan Network.....

“Look everyone in NZ has been under intense pressure trying to find their place in the new normal. It’s only natural some people with strong view might say things in the heat of the moment that they don’t mean or never intend to act on.
Look it’s not for me to direct police operations or policy *coughchoke bullshit* I completely trust the police judgement to make decisions that are right for the good of nz for all New Zealanders.
No I have t actually seen the clip I’ve been to busy pimping my daughter for poltical
Photo ops.
I’m sure if we get all the people involved around the table this matter will be cleared up quickly.
Once again for clairity look it’s not my role to direct police operations or interferes in the freedom of religious expression in our non secular society.

R650R
28th December 2021, 09:57
I just hope that pair aren't breeding ... :shifty:

Your all open to enjoy your own fantasies in the privacy of your own homes but put away the Vaseline asthats not happening lol

Some interesting stats here in this vid, publicly available govt stats. Wonder if our media will report or just continue the fear mongering. Not long before every symptom of every existing malady will be a covid symptom....


https://youtu.be/wBQWNbJG1q8

husaberg
28th December 2021, 10:55
more trolling
Take the advice, you will still have a repugnant narcissistic attitude and inferiority complex. But fewer people will notice
originally posted by George

https://youtu.be/6U2XdkBkTTk

FJRider
28th December 2021, 13:46
Your all open to enjoy your own fantasies in the privacy of your own homes but put away the Vaseline asthats not happening lol

Good news indeed.


Some interesting stats here in this vid, publicly available govt stats. Wonder if our media will report or just continue the fear mongering. Not long before every symptom of every existing malady will be a covid symptom....



The stats to look at are ...

1. The number of Covid related deaths of those that WERE vaccinated.

2. The number of Covid related deaths of those that were NOT vaccinated.


Those that refuse to get vaccinated ... even after being told by their employer that it is now an employment requirement ... I say good on them. But ... if that means they and their family do not have an income (aside from a Benefit) ... can sticking to your principals be seen as a good thing if they (and their family) go hungry .. ??

I am old enough to have a long and varied employment record. There were times I did work that I wasn't happy doing ... but they paid well. Others required training that didn't pay well (if at all) but it did keep me in employment. I think every time I changed jobs ... I changed trade lol. The trepidation I had with that ... was greater than that I had of catching covid ... starting at the bottom is never fun.

Companies folding due to Covid restrictions does happen. But companies folding due to downturns in business isn't new either. Just different reasons.

Most of those refusing their jabs ... were probably vaccinated (for various things) around the time they weren't even capable of coherent words (let alone full sentences) The "Principals" of their parents kept them alive and healthy.

In my Army days ... we were sent into areas where the risk was greater of catching a virus or disease ... that would make any risk Covid presents .. as almost harmless. One time I got 10 jabs for ten different things. Never were we told we would not catch the various ailments we got jabs for ... just told that the risk was lowered. None of us actually caught anything the jabs were to prevent ... so the jabs either worked ... or we were lucky. A few caught Malaria ... but it was usually because they had stopped taking the tablets ... we were supposed to take daily.

husaberg
28th December 2021, 15:29
https://web.colby.edu/cogblog/files/2020/12/lstbna22vks11.jpg
https://images.prismic.io/wellcomecollection/0d6129f27eb11f2fbabce736de76b5b9bb804a9c_01-trump.png?auto=compress%2Cformat&rect=&w=919&h=

pritch
29th December 2021, 07:35
Back to thread topic add on radio says have a covid plan if you test positive while on holiday... I don’t see what choices any plan would have when dept of health would be effectively putting you under house arrest where ever you are....anyone else with you would be a close contact and not allowed to go anywhere either...

It's almost as if you are aware there is a radio ad but you haven't actually listened to it. To be fair I was aware the information was on the Internet but actually hadn't read it. Then again, I'm not going anywhere yet, and I already had a plan in the event I'm locked down.

https://covid19.govt.nz/assets/resources/resources/covid19-summer-plan.pdf

R650R
2nd January 2022, 22:39
Hope none of you northerners were erm blowing their Xmas bonus on a late night out.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300489367/covid19-locations-of-interest-in-north-island-holiday-hotspots-adult-clubs

TheDemonLord
3rd January 2022, 11:29
That's going to be an interesting one, Adult establishments have had a long history of discretion and confidentiality.

george formby
3rd January 2022, 12:08
That's going to be an interesting one, Adult establishments have had a long history of discretion and confidentiality.

What puzzles me is how, er, foreplay works wearing a mask?:shifty:

F5 Dave
3rd January 2022, 13:11
Maybe they change to Lone Ranger masks?:innocent:

george formby
3rd January 2022, 13:47
Maybe they change to Lone Ranger masks?:innocent:

:laugh: So, "Tonto" is now a euphemism?

TheDemonLord
3rd January 2022, 14:18
What puzzles me is how, er, foreplay works wearing a mask?:shifty:

Take your pick...

Option A (https://www.google.com/search?q=masquerade+ball&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=AOaemvIxoG8Ys4KH1ZG1ziqKmDSoIZ57Eg:164117609 1178&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi4tLavwZT1AhXwSWwGHZEIDGsQ_AUoAXoECAIQA w&biw=1536&bih=739&dpr=1.25)

Option B (https://www.google.com/search?q=bdsm+mask&client=firefox-b-d&sxsrf=AOaemvLC72VIXi88hhmUNwJi3IuK5GiNRQ:164117613 7048&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwizgKbFwZT1AhWsS2wGHQ9fBH0Q_AUoAXoECAEQA w&biw=1536&bih=739&dpr=1.25)


On the subject of Mask and Mask wearing - today I went for a walk round one of our Lovely National Parks. Oodles of Open Air, not a soul around for 100s of meters.

in a 30 minute walk, I think I picked up 3 different Masks, just left there, in the Bush - and what's more, this was a park that had big signs 'Take your Rubbish with you'.

One has to wonder what type of person wears a Mask on a Tramp, but leaves it as Rubbish.

mashman
3rd January 2022, 14:48
What puzzles me is how, er, foreplay works wearing a mask?:shifty:

350351... great for cleanup too.

sugilite
4th January 2022, 06:02
On the subject of Mask and Mask wearing - today I went for a walk round one of our Lovely National Parks. Oodles of Open Air, not a soul around for 100s of meters.

in a 30 minute walk, I think I picked up 3 different Masks, just left there, in the Bush - and what's more, this was a park that had big signs 'Take your Rubbish with you'.

One has to wonder what type of person wears a Mask on a Tramp, but leaves it as Rubbish.

They were probably March-ists

There are very large tramping tracks up the mountain I live on, my son go on them quite often. On an hour long walk we only saw a couple of people. An older and younger woman walking together - wearing masks. Way to kill a nature walk, did they think they were going to get covid from the tuis? :pinch:

TheDemonLord
4th January 2022, 07:07
They were probably March-ists

hehe - excellent Pun.

On a serious note, there are a lot of Marxist Greenies - the 'Capitalism is killing the planet, we need an alternative (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06jlgpMtQs)' types.

But for all their flaws, they tend to be really really good at not littering, recycling everything they can, buying the crap products that don't work 'but are better for the planet'.

So it really doesn't make sense that it would be someone like that, same with the zealously following the rules types.

Just baffles me. And annoys me at seeing the scourge of mask trash in the most inappropriate places.


There are very large tramping tracks up the mountain I live on, my son go on them quite often. On an hour long walk we only saw a couple of people. An older and younger woman walking together - wearing masks. Way to kill a nature walk, did they think they were going to get covid from the tuis? :pinch:

Exactly this: Life is for living and enjoying!

nerrrd
4th January 2022, 09:00
Not impossible that the mask wearing was due to them walking together, surely? Maybe the older one was immuno-compromised, the younger one works in the health system and is regularly in a hospital that has Covid cases, so the safest way for them to touch base is outdoors, with masks.

Anyway, we should all be free to wear masks or not where it’s optional without fear or favour, so there. Except for all those wallys wearing their ‘mouth’ masks. Either wear the mask or don’t, stop being half assed about it.

TheDemonLord
4th January 2022, 09:47
Not impossible that the mask wearing was due to them walking together, surely? Maybe the older one was immuno-compromised, the younger one works in the health system and is regularly in a hospital that has Covid cases, so the safest way for them to touch base is outdoors, with masks.

Possibly - I'd have thought though, it would be easier just to walk more than 2 meters apart.


Anyway, we should all be free to wear masks or not without fear or favour, so there. Except for all those wallys wearing their ‘mouth’ masks. Either wear the mask or don’t, stop being half assed about it.

I've modified the quote to be the position that I hold.

I'm just having a rant at people littering in our National Parks, and whilst I can 'understand' a Drink bottle being left (even if I think the Lazy gobshites who bought it should take it with them...). Masks, however, seem more egregious, from my PoV they are unnecessary when outdoors, whereas at least a Drink can be understood.

R650R
4th January 2022, 11:22
Masks are probably just like car keys/phones/Lolly wrappers, shoved in a pocket with best intentions but dislodged at the next inconvenient ball scratch/backpack adjustment/steep terrain...

The real problem with people being judged/shamed mask use or not lies with Jacinda. In season one of Covid Island (tm) (R) they said they didnÂ’t think people needed to wear masks, had no plans to mandate masks and the best thing to do was wash your hands and social distance.

Btw the real proper safe distance the CDC wanted for person to person airborne infections control was 15ft. Practicality and compromise lead to 12-9ft but ended up at 6ft as the larger distance would just be too hard for people to accurayevjudge and enforce.

Anyhow what brings me here today.... delta is supposedly MORE contagious and MORE deadly but they have eased the rules. Now if youÂ’ve been at ground zero location you only need test if you have symptoms except if itÂ’s super close contact like brothels above... and in Australia you now have to be with someone for four hours before being deemed a close contact...
No store closures and deep cleans.... they got what they wanted so they dialing down the fear campaign now....
Interestingly the Omicron variant spreads so fast it makes the contact tracing systems redundant. By the time the person who infected you gets sick and gets tested youÂ’ll be sick too, good thing this version seems much less harmful and is displacing delta

husaberg
4th January 2022, 12:50
Masks are probably just like car keys/phones/Lolly wrappers, shoved in a pocket with best intentions but dislodged at the next inconvenient ball scratch/backpack adjustment/steep terrain...

The real problem with people being judged/shamed mask use or not lies with Jacinda. In season one of Covid Island (tm) (R) they said they didnÂ’t think people needed to wear masks, had no plans to mandate masks and the best thing to do was wash your hands and social distance.

Btw the real proper safe distance the CDC wanted for person to person airborne infections control was 15ft. Practicality and compromise lead to 12-9ft but ended up at 6ft as the larger distance would just be too hard for people to accurayevjudge and enforce.

Anyhow what brings me here today.... delta is supposedly MORE contagious and MORE deadly but they have eased the rules. Now if youÂ’ve been at ground zero location you only need test if you have symptoms except if itÂ’s super close contact like brothels above... and in Australia you now have to be with someone for four hours before being deemed a close contact...
No store closures and deep cleans.... they got what they wanted so they dialing down the fear campaign now....
Interestingly the Omicron variant spreads so fast it makes the contact tracing systems redundant. By the time the person who infected you gets sick and gets tested youÂ’ll be sick too, good thing this version seems much less harmful and is displacing delta


Whats interesting is your troll posts are highly variable in assigning blame.
iI seems that you cant keep track of your position as it changes day to day whether the govt is doing too much or too little.
You also consistently judge yourself as being intellectually superior to the medical and scientific professions which is rather odd as you laim to be a truck driver with no university education.
You also often use example of other countries that have actually failed to effectively control the covid infection as being shining beacons as to what we should follow.
if you are going to troll the forum at least show some consistency.

pritch
5th January 2022, 07:47
What puzzles me is how, er, foreplay works wearing a mask?:shifty:

Foreplay? These ladies are professionals, time is money. They ain't got no freakin' time for foreplay.

pritch
5th January 2022, 08:13
The real problem with people being judged/shamed mask use or not lies with Jacinda. In season one of Covid Island (tm) (R) they said they didnÂ’t think people needed to wear masks, had no plans to mandate masks and the best thing to do was wash your hands and social distance.

We have discussed this previously. The idiot fringe continue refer to changing rules and such. At the outset of the pandemic there was a shortage of PPE and the government did not want the mentally challenged rushing out and buying masks like they did toilet paper. They wanted the PPE for the medical professionals. Now though we have enough for everybody.



and in Australia you now have to be with someone for four hours before being deemed a close contact...


Australia is not a good model. The PM, Morrison, is missing in action, it seems he has basically given up, but not before he gave tens of millions of government dollars to his Mickey Mouse church. It is hard to tell though, when the serious shit hits the fan he goes to Hawaii on holiday.

Morrison thinks people should pay for testing and the suppliers have begun outrageous price gouging to levels beyond what many can afford. Australia used to have laws about price gouging but this government got rid of those. The suppliers that have tests available are few and far between so sick people, who think they may have COVID, travel from shop to shop trying to locate a test they can afford. Doubtless speading the virus as they go.

When Gladys got dumped as NSW Premier, her place was taken by the former state treasurer. He doesn't give a fuck about people, he only cares about the economy, so NSW is a total shit show. He doesn't seem to understand that dead people don't buy shares, or even pizzas.

TheDemonLord
5th January 2022, 08:21
Foreplay? These ladies are professionals, time is money. They ain't got no freakin' time for foreplay.

They've got all the time in the world, so long as you are paying for it :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

R650R
5th January 2022, 08:33
We have discussed this previously. The idiot fringe continue refer to changing rules and such. At the outset of the pandemic there was a shortage of PPE and the government did not want the mentally challenged rushing out and buying masks like they did toilet paper. They wanted the PPE for the medical professionals. Now though we have enough for everybody.
.

Don’t trot out that tired lefty cover up line again, jacinda never said anything of the sort. If they wanted us wearing masks in season one they would have mandated it like they did in season three. At the time homemade and cloth bandanas we’re consideted acceptable masks. Just like in a volcanically eruption overnight the population could have been wearing masks made out of t shirts even.
Yes EMS were low on PPE but that’s a budget decision, gen population could have had masks of some sort.

Could you imagine the outright panic if Jacinda really said hey you all need to be wearing masks but your not allowed them only for doctors and ems????
So no she never said that. Instead we had a slow frog boiling in the pot sleepwalk step by step into full permanent communist lockdown now rebranded as traffic lights.

R650R
5th January 2022, 08:37
They've got all the time in the world, so long as you are paying for it :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:

Haha yes and with all the different fetishes out there that’s all some people want lol
Then there’s the high roller Japanese business men who pay just to have them in room without using them, kinda like status of having a Lamborghini in the garage I guess.

george formby
5th January 2022, 10:38
Foreplay? These ladies are professionals, time is money. They ain't got no freakin' time for foreplay.


They've got all the time in the world, so long as you are paying for it :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:



I am not, no, not, reading anything into these quotes....:innocent:

Berries
5th January 2022, 12:48
Haha yes and with all the different fetishes out there that’s all some people want lol
Then there’s the high roller Japanese business men who pay just to have them in room without using them, kinda like status of having a Lamborghini in the garage I guess.
Not sure why, but I get my kicks from paying strange women wearing gumboots to cough on me while tickling me with a feather.





:buggerd:

george formby
5th January 2022, 12:52
Not sure why, but I get my kicks from paying strange women wearing gumboots to cough on me while tickling me with a feather.





:buggerd:

You have to pay for that?:facepalm:

husaberg
5th January 2022, 14:52
Not sure why, but I get my kicks from paying strange women wearing gumboots to cough on me while tickling me with a feather.





:buggerd:
See below....

pritch
5th January 2022, 15:38
Don’t trot out that tired lefty cover up line again, jacinda never said anything of the sort. If they wanted us wearing masks in season one they would have mandated it like they did in season three. At the time homemade and cloth bandanas we’re consideted acceptable masks. Just like in a volcanically eruption overnight the population could have been wearing masks made out of t shirts even.
Yes EMS were low on PPE but that’s a budget decision, gen population could have had masks of some sort.

Could you imagine the outright panic if Jacinda really said hey you all need to be wearing masks but your not allowed them only for doctors and ems????
So no she never said that. Instead we had a slow frog boiling in the pot sleepwalk step by step into full permanent communist lockdown now rebranded as traffic lights.

That's some powerful shit you're smoking. At least I hope you're smoking, 'cause that's pretty much unintelligible.

F5 Dave
5th January 2022, 16:46
If he doesn't like it here we'd be happy if he fucked off overseas.

R650R
5th January 2022, 22:47
Not sure why, but I get my kicks from paying strange women wearing gumboots to cough on me while tickling me with a feather.





:buggerd:

Duck feather or synthetic lol....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/127440619/covid19-pelican-club-cluster-grows-to-ten-as-new-years-cases-begin-to-emerge

Hi ho ho ten cases now, this will be real interesting as both parties have to be double vaxxed... sadly due to ahem “commercial sensitivity” we prob will miss out on some good data here....

Berries
5th January 2022, 23:01
You have to pay for that?
Yeah, I moved away from Auckland.

husaberg
6th January 2022, 17:23
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-7a8489a56251dbf372a3c3dd93552a7d-lq

husaberg
6th January 2022, 17:59
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-8445352406b5170754cb001575accaeb-lq..

About right.........

F5 Dave
6th January 2022, 19:22
I bet R666 has a moustache like that.

And looks just as thick.


Whilst being even more stupid.


Fuk is that Kunt stoopid.

R650R
7th January 2022, 06:53
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/127167093/covid19-experts-warn-brain-drain-may-return-as-border-rules-set-to-ease

Who would have thought people would want to leave the “safest” country on earth for a mere 15k extra. I question that graduates research skills if he thinks Melbourne has less restrictions than us....

pete376403
7th January 2022, 09:12
https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/127167093/covid19-experts-warn-brain-drain-may-return-as-border-rules-set-to-ease

Who would have thought people would want to leave the “safest” country on earth for a mere 15k extra. I question that graduates research skills if he thinks Melbourne has less restrictions than us....

Getting into Aus is getting easier, but when it turns to shit for him he may find it's not so easy to get back.
https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-updates-new-case-numbers-after-large-bounce/d2c7476c-27b0-438a-9b85-610c8bf16f35

nerrrd
7th January 2022, 10:00
I’m sure any skilled expatriates who found themselves having to come back will leave again as soon as they can, none of the reasons that made leaving NZ the attractive option in the first place will have changed.

husaberg
7th January 2022, 12:17
I’m sure any skilled expatriates who found themselves having to come back will leave again as soon as they can, none of the reasons that made leaving NZ the attractive option in the first place will have changed.
Negotiating decent wages comparable with overseas is also a skill i would have thought.
But i jest the numbers moving overseas is apparently pretty static.
Much lower under current gov than under previous National govt as well
350365

pritch
8th January 2022, 08:19
I really can't help feeling young Mr Yoo is not much of a loss. He wants to go to Australia for "more freedom." Freedom isn't free, as the Yanks like to say. Yesterday Australia reported nearly 70,000 new COVID cases. NZ reported 35. That's a lot of extra freedom.

That item seems to disapprove of the situation wherein people are employed by overseas companies but work remotely from NZ. "While the body stays here, the brain goes." Of some economic significance though, the money stays here too.

Ocean1
8th January 2022, 12:55
Negotiating decent wages comparable with overseas is also a skill i would have thought.
But i jest the numbers moving overseas is apparently pretty static.
Much lower under current gov than under previous National govt as well
350365

Lol, still at the "But Nashnal" shit, eh?

husaberg
8th January 2022, 13:26
Lol, still at the "But Nashnal" shit, eh?
its a stat posted by stats NZ. if it clearly show nationals was a bit shitter than you would like that not really my fault now is it.
it wasnt posted to show National was shit it just happened to show they were pretty shit.
Go back to the three Donkeys.
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/21fc7f9d-bdd8-4505-9f64-992d3eee0456/d5721x6-4f44662d-27aa-43bc-9872-f39116616485.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIxZmM3ZjlkLWJkZDgtNDUwNS05Zj Y0LTk5MmQzZWVlMDQ1NlwvZDU3MjF4Ni00ZjQ0NjYyZC0yN2Fh LTQzYmMtOTg3Mi1mMzkxMTY2MTY0ODUuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.3PdV1_KI 8TeJM1i_KOF4MXYrmQuu_JS8PgBp1h199To
https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/2158/national-party-advertisement
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/28/see-no-poverty-hear-no-poverty-speak-no-poverty-and-count-no-poverty/

FJRider
8th January 2022, 16:27
I really can't help feeling young Mr Yoo is not much of a loss. He wants to go to Australia for "more freedom." Freedom isn't free, as the Yanks like to say. Yesterday Australia reported nearly 70,000 new COVID cases. NZ reported 35. That's a lot of extra freedom.

The point too many miss ... freedom has a cost. Two world wars in the cause of freedom. Millions dead.

There would be few on here that didn't have a relative that either fought and/or died in the cause of freedom.

Would Mr Yoo (or his family) be enjoying the freedom if he dies of covid .. ???


That item seems to disapprove of the situation wherein people are employed by overseas companies but work remotely from NZ. "While the body stays here, the brain goes." Of some economic significance though, the money stays here too.

It does pay (excuse the pun) to check the currency of the country you'll be paid in first though. Paid in US $$$ into an NZ account ... :yes: ;)

pritch
8th January 2022, 17:23
On the TV news tonight I see the Brits have utilised the military to assist with staff shortages at testing and vaccine centres. I can't get used to seeing troops wearing camouflage uniforms with hi viz vests. It's like they can't make their fucking minds up. We do it here too I note.

Meanwhile in the USA, the latest "unofficial" cure for COVID is Viagra. That could give them a hard time.

R650R
8th January 2022, 20:55
The point too many miss ... freedom has a cost. Two world wars in the cause of freedom. Millions dead.

There would be few on here that didn't have a relative that either fought and/or died in the cause of freedom.

Would Mr Yoo (or his family) be enjoying the freedom if he dies of covid .. ???



It does pay (excuse the pun) to check the currency of the country you'll be paid in first though. Paid in US $$$ into an NZ account ... :yes: ;)

Yes indeed and they must be turning in their graves over our modern leaders....
Btw our two world wars were more about international treaties than freedoms but that’s another thread of its own...

Yes he will be enjoying his freedom, maybe briefer than anticipated

R650R
8th January 2022, 21:03
On the TV news tonight I see the Brits have utilised the military to assist with staff shortages at testing and vaccine centres. I can't get used to seeing troops wearing camouflage uniforms with hi viz vests. It's like they can't make their fucking minds up. We do it here too I note.

Meanwhile in the USA, the latest "unofficial" cure for COVID is Viagra. That could give them a hard time.

Sounds like a bit of OCD issues there... the practicalities of it all and reasonings are plainly obvious... I was watching some over dimensional equipment being moved on camo military low loaders.... flashing lights and flouro width placards/flags . Pretty normal if no enemy invasion happening

Condyn
9th January 2022, 00:44
I finally caught the VID about 2.5 weeks ago. Day 1-3 after symptoms showed up I felt like I got run over by a truck. Muscles sore, headache, and a slight sore throat. Temp only hit 99.4f on the worst day. 98.6f is my normal. From day 4-10 I improved each day. I never got pneumonia in my either lung like some experience so I am thankful for that. I drank very large amounts of water and hot tea each day. I can taste 50% of normal and smell only 20% of normal still. It is coming back slowly. No other symptoms persist for me.

I am not vaccinated and never will be as long as I am in control of that. I am average weight, eat healthy, as well as consume proper amounts of water. I have two very good friends that are fully vaccinated and boosted, one is on a ventilator, the other has Covid pneumonia in both lungs and has been monitoring his blood oxygen (I believe that is what he said) very close So he knows if he has to go to the hospital. Both people are overweight and have poor diets. Many non vaccinated people are suffering too. Many are overweight, do not exercise, and have poor diets.

Our country has not handled this as good as some since the start, so I can see where we look bad. I see the general opinion on this page and the shaming of people who stand out with different thoughts. In my opinion, having experienced it, I think that it is nothing to be concerned about unless you do not take care of yourself ahead of time. And I mean diet, exercise, mental health, etc. ELDERLY and immune compromised people may be the exception. Those groups also suffer from influenza and other illnesses more than a healthy person. If you want to get vaccinated, go for it, I will not judge you. Despite what I see on the news everyday, I have seen first hand, people with the vaccinations suffer as well. I have seen both sides of the vaccination status go both ways. This is not an attempt to push any agenda on anyone. Just wanted to tell you first hand what I experienced.

pritch
9th January 2022, 09:38
Sounds like a bit of OCD issues there...

Hardly. Some people think it looks silly driving with headlights on while wearing sunglasses. Again, it looks like they can't make their mind up.

You can do it, I wouldn't.

Ocean1
9th January 2022, 10:01
its a stat posted by stats NZ. if it clearly show nationals was a bit shitter than you would like that not really my fault now is it.
it wasm\nt posted to show Nationalwas shit it just happened to show they were pretty shit.
Go back to the three Donkeys.
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/21fc7f9d-bdd8-4505-9f64-992d3eee0456/d5721x6-4f44662d-27aa-43bc-9872-f39116616485.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQz NzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZT BkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6 W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcLzIxZmM3ZjlkLWJkZDgtNDUwNS05Zj Y0LTk5MmQzZWVlMDQ1NlwvZDU3MjF4Ni00ZjQ0NjYyZC0yN2Fh LTQzYmMtOTg3Mi1mMzkxMTY2MTY0ODUuanBnIn1dXSwiYXVkIj pbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.3PdV1_KI 8TeJM1i_KOF4MXYrmQuu_JS8PgBp1h199To
https://teara.govt.nz/en/video/2158/national-party-advertisement
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/02/28/see-no-poverty-hear-no-poverty-speak-no-poverty-and-count-no-poverty/

Right, right. So your belief is that labour's success rate in achieving their stated objectives as per their election manifesto is superior, eh?

Don't bother with yet another round of "But nashnul", nobody's interested.

R650R
9th January 2022, 10:30
I finally caught the VID about 2.5 weeks ago. Day 1-3 after symptoms showed up I felt like I got run over by a truck. Muscles sore, headache, and a slight sore throat. Temp only hit 99.4f on the worst day. 98.6f is my normal. From day 4-10 I improved each day. I never got pneumonia in my either lung like some experience so I am thankful for that. I drank very large amounts of water and hot tea each day. I can taste 50% of normal and smell only 20% of normal still. It is coming back slowly. No other symptoms persist for me.

I am not vaccinated and never will be as long as I am in control of that. I am average weight, eat healthy, as well as consume proper amounts of water. I have two very good friends that are fully vaccinated and boosted, one is on a ventilator, the other has Covid pneumonia in both lungs and has been monitoring his blood oxygen (I believe that is what he said) very close So he knows if he has to go to the hospital. Both people are overweight and have poor diets. Many non vaccinated people are suffering too. Many are overweight, do not exercise, and have poor diets.

Our country has not handled this as good as some since the start, so I can see where we look bad. I see the general opinion on this page and the shaming of people who stand out with different thoughts. In my opinion, having experienced it, I think that it is nothing to be concerned about unless you do not take care of yourself ahead of time. And I mean diet, exercise, mental health, etc. ELDERLY and immune compromised people may be the exception. Those groups also suffer from influenza and other illnesses more than a healthy person. If you want to get vaccinated, go for it, I will not judge you. Despite what I see on the news everyday, I have seen first hand, people with the vaccinations suffer as well. I have seen both sides of the vaccination status go both ways. This is not an attempt to push any agenda on anyone. Just wanted to tell you first hand what I experienced.

Thanks for sharing your genuine experience. The first to do so on KB

husaberg
9th January 2022, 13:13
Right, right. So your belief is that labour's success rate in achieving their stated objectives as per their election manifesto is superior, eh?

Don't bother with yet another round of "But nashnul", nobody's interested.
Nice gish gallop
Do you actually have any hard evidence to back your assertions or is the the normal blow hard tripe you normally post?
What would be interesting is if your posts would stand up to any scrutiny of not being so hypercritical .
Ps you dont get to tell me what to do. you have no authority on this thread nor do i have any actual respect for your opinion based on what you post I don't say this just as i disagree with them. i just notice the total lack of any corroborating evidence for your opinions you do post when challenged.
http://izquotes.com/quotes-pictures/quote-some-people-s-idea-of-free-speech-is-that-they-are-free-to-say-what-they-like-but-if-anyone-says-winston-churchill-326376.jpghttps://i.pinimg.com/originals/c9/42/33/c94233df84bf353eb90ebf74d65f9cff.jpg

TheDemonLord
9th January 2022, 13:19
Ps you dont get to tell me what to do.

Oh.
The.
Irony.

You've been very much on board with telling other people what to do, now suddenly you're a flag waving, card carrying Libertarian?

F5 Dave
9th January 2022, 16:00
I finally caught the VID about 2.5 weeks ago. Day 1-3 after symptoms showed up I felt like I got run over by a truck. Muscles sore, headache, and a slight sore throat. Temp only hit 99.4f on the worst day. 98.6f is my normal. From day 4-10 I improved each day. I never got pneumonia in my either lung like some experience so I am thankful for that. I drank very large amounts of water and hot tea each day. I can taste 50% of normal and smell only 20% of normal still. It is coming back slowly. No other symptoms persist for me.

I am not vaccinated and never will be as long as I am in control of that. I am average weight, eat healthy, as well as consume proper amounts of water. I have two very good friends that are fully vaccinated and boosted, one is on a ventilator, the other has Covid pneumonia in both lungs and has been monitoring his blood oxygen (I believe that is what he said) very close So he knows if he has to go to the hospital. Both people are overweight and have poor diets. Many non vaccinated people are suffering too. Many are overweight, do not exercise, and have poor diets.

Our country has not handled this as good as some since the start, so I can see where we look bad. I see the general opinion on this page and the shaming of people who stand out with different thoughts. In my opinion, having experienced it, I think that it is nothing to be concerned about unless you do not take care of yourself ahead of time. And I mean diet, exercise, mental health, etc. ELDERLY and immune compromised people may be the exception. Those groups also suffer from influenza and other illnesses more than a healthy person. If you want to get vaccinated, go for it, I will not judge you. Despite what I see on the news everyday, I have seen first hand, people with the vaccinations suffer as well. I have seen both sides of the vaccination status go both ways. This is not an attempt to push any agenda on anyone. Just wanted to tell you first hand what I experienced.
Nice story of correlation, and I'm glad that from your sample size of, was it three, people you are happy to disperse your findings that your healthy in your opinion lifestyle was the deciding factor and therefore vaccine is unnecessary.

That you were 20 times more likely to pass on the virus than a vaccinated person, well that's the next person's problem, and who cares about them huh?

TheDemonLord
9th January 2022, 18:18
Nice story of correlation, and I'm glad that from your sample size of, was it three, people you are happy to disperse your findings that your healthy in your opinion lifestyle was the deciding factor and therefore vaccine is unnecessary.

I mean, the Medical literature at this point is very clear: If you are Fat, Sedentary, Old or have an existing respiratory issue (Asthma for example) then, you're likely to experience Covid much more severely.

There's current a study (awaiting peer review) that suggest indicates Covid actually attacks the Fat Cells.

But y'know, I'm just following the Sciencetm


That you were 20 times more likely to pass on the virus than a vaccinated person, well that's the next person's problem, and who cares about them huh?

Only if that Vaccinated person was within 1 month of their Vaccine...

husaberg
9th January 2022, 18:48
Nice story of correlation, and I'm glad that from your sample size of, was it three, people you are happy to disperse your findings that your healthy in your opinion lifestyle was the deciding factor and therefore vaccine is unnecessary.

That you were 20 times more likely to pass on the virus than a vaccinated person, well that's the next person's problem, and who cares about them huh?
https://ourworldindata.org/covid-deaths-by-vaccination
350383350384350385350386
A common ploy of the antivaxxers and the morrons is to compare the death rates without accounting for the total numbers.
ie 10 people died 5 were vaxed 5 were not
so they crow "look it makes no difference"
whilst ignoring 90% of the people in the group were vaxxed so the death rate for the vaccinated is about 5x lower.
350388

F5 Dave
9th January 2022, 19:08
Tdl posted something. Should I view it or will it be idiotic?

Following my rule; assume tithead. Ignore.

husaberg
9th January 2022, 19:13
Tdl posted something. Should I view it or will it be idiotic?

Following my rule; assume tithead. Ignore.
Careful if you ignore him you will need to turn off quote notifications too,otherwise he will clog up that as well.

TheDemonLord
9th January 2022, 19:33
Careful if you ignore him you will need to turn off quote notifications too,otherwise he will clog up that as well.

"Get thee behind me Satan"

If you post something that interests more or (as is usually the case) you reference me, then yes, I'll pop up and reply.

I mean, if you *actually* wanted to ignore more, then you would, y'know - Ignore more.

TheDemonLord
9th January 2022, 19:38
Tdl posted something. Should I view it or will it be idiotic?

Following my rule; assume tithead. Ignore.

See, as I said to Husa - if you want to ignore me, why do you do this? It's like you are repeating a religious Mantra lest the Great Satan (or in this case, Demon Lord) corrupt your soul.

If you want to Ignore me, then Ignore me - but posting and making a reference to me, just like the Great Satan of various mythos will draw my attention and summon me to reply.

The funniest part is that if you look at what Husa posts in his little factoid sheet - it prominent displays the 95% reduction in transmission if you are vaccinated....

Within 2 weeks of being jabbed

Which if you read what I wrote, you'd know that is true, but it's efficacy at stopping transmission drops off significantly after 3 months.

F5 Dave
9th January 2022, 20:04
Not sure how go do that. However I see he has 1 friend. How nice. D.Path. from last decade I guess.
And he is in a group. Metalheads. Yeah rock on bro. :rolleyes:

husaberg
9th January 2022, 20:26
Not sure how go do that. However I see he has 1 friend. How nice. D.Path. from last decade I guess.
And he is in a group. Metalheads. Yeah rock on bro. :rolleyes:

easy its in your general settings
350389
rumour is he "mans" the it help desk at hannahs....:clap:

TheDemonLord
9th January 2022, 21:34
Not sure how go do that. However I see he has 1 friend. How nice. D.Path. from last decade I guess.
And he is in a group. Metalheads. Yeah rock on bro. :rolleyes:

And here we have the obsession over me (quite flattering TBH) - since you've obviously had a good stalk of my profile, I don't really go in for groups or collecting friends, never been my style.

By all means though, keep demonstrsting that, just like Husa, you really do have me on Ignore, whilst talking about me, and looking through the minutiae of my profile etc.

One is reminded of the jilted lover who is 'Totally over them and Totally in love with their new partner', whilst obsessively checking the updates on their ex's profile...

Berries
11th January 2022, 13:39
Well, I might watch tennis for the first time in my life just for shits and giggles when old Novax gets up on the pitch.

husaberg
11th January 2022, 22:34
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-fd7b285625541478678470dd0183b050-lqhttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-ba9d41b31123102445708cbb6a9b3cec

pritch
12th January 2022, 17:02
I prefer the beer test. Take a mouthful of beer. Can you taste the beer? If yes, you are negative. Repeat as often as necessary.

Currently I'm experimenting with a new test. It works in a similar to the beer test, but I'm trialling an Argentinian Malbec. Negative so far.

TheDemonLord
12th January 2022, 17:09
I prefer the beer test. Take a mouthful of beer. Can you taste the beer? If yes, you are negative. Repeat as often as necessary.

Currently I'm experimenting with a new test. It works in a similar to the beer test, but I'm trialling an Argentinian Malbec. Negative so far.

Sounds like serious scientific research.

Will need a control and multiple repetitions.

husaberg
14th January 2022, 17:40
https://img-9gag-fun.9cache.com/photo/a27XbXO_460s.jpghttps://images.prismic.io/wellcomecollection/a1e83dd579b4c4b6f5b37b18c490e7b94d5bc286_17-statisticscard.jpg?auto=compress,formathttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-4938a3ea00ef0ef18670995f14ac3a05https://external-preview.redd.it/pGPpVFtvj_8nMX6R24jkvTKNqPfOqzu1Uh_VfWvv8Wo.jpg?au to=webp&36369083https://external-preview.redd.it/pGPpVFtvj_8nMX6R24jkvTKNqPfOqzu1Uh_VfWvv8Wo.jpg?wi dth=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&0ec0b8cc

husaberg
15th January 2022, 22:38
Masks are probably just like car keys/phones/Lolly wrappers, shoved in a pocket with best intentions but dislodged at the next inconvenient ball scratch/backpack adjustment/steep terrain...

The real problem with people being judged/shamed mask use or not lies with Jacinda. In season one of Covid Island (tm) (R) they said they didnÂ’t think people needed to wear masks, had no plans to mandate masks and the best thing to do was wash your hands and social distance.

Btw the real proper safe distance the CDC wanted for person to person airborne infections control was 15ft. Practicality and compromise lead to 12-9ft but ended up at 6ft as the larger distance would just be too hard for people to accurayevjudge and enforce.

Anyhow what brings me here today.... delta is supposedly MORE contagious and MORE deadly but they have eased the rules. Now if youÂ’ve been at ground zero location you only need test if you have symptoms except if itÂ’s super close contact like brothels above... and in Australia you now have to be with someone for four hours before being deemed a close contact...
No store closures and deep cleans.... they got what they wanted so they dialing down the fear campaign now....
Interestingly the Omicron variant spreads so fast it makes the contact tracing systems redundant. By the time the person who infected you gets sick and gets tested youÂ’ll be sick too, good thing this version seems much less harmful and is displacing delta

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9c6b1d6c220f4a58dedbb6db1bd53859

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-400264a44fa060fbe2f0da255cd5e816-lqhttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-5a682c99fad026272627664cb1b73bae-lqhttps://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-966653ef81e29632506da51f2cdf93ba

husaberg
18th January 2022, 23:01
Haha yes
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-99a1244231233fc785f8687cc1d70296

pritch
21st January 2022, 10:27
Did you read about the Czech female vocalist who thought that if she contracted COVID naturally, she would be able to get a vaccine pass without getting vaccinated?
She caught it. She's dead.

Autech
21st January 2022, 10:45
Did you read about the Czech female vocalist who thought that if she contracted COVID naturally, she would be able to get a vaccine pass without getting vaccinated?
She caught it. She's dead.

Well in her defence she doesn't need a vaccine pass now... That'll show them!

R650R
21st January 2022, 15:10
Did you read about the Czech female vocalist who thought that if she contracted COVID naturally, she would be able to get a vaccine pass without getting vaccinated?
She caught it. She's dead.

Prob because that’s what they actually do over in Italy....

Hot date on the cards so just caved in and downloaded the pass... and ho ho ho it says you can get a vaccine pass if you have a valid exemption!!! So all you super paranoid people might still want to search a mask at the next pub or concert visit....

I wonder how long before hackers get into “my health record” site. It will be a high value target having practically EVERY single person in the countries email address minus ten percent. Another oversight by the government, you give your email at jab time and the pass should just be emailed out then....

husaberg
21st January 2022, 18:10
Prob because that’s what they actually do over in Italy....

Hot date on the cards so just caved in and downloaded the pass... and ho ho ho it says you can get a vaccine pass if you have a valid exemption!!! So all you super paranoid people might still want to search a mask at the next pub or concert visit....

I wonder how long before hackers get into “my health record” site. It will be a high value target having practically EVERY single person in the countries email address minus ten percent. Another oversight by the government, you give your email at jab time and the pass should just be emailed out then....

I am superglad you are back trolling this site. As what's an internet forum without an uneducated troll giving his unwanted or educated opinion as being facts.

If only more of your ilk was available.

MarkH
22nd January 2022, 14:48
Did you read about the Czech female vocalist who thought that if she contracted COVID naturally, she would be able to get a vaccine pass without getting vaccinated?
She caught it. She's dead.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/entertainment/covid-19-unvaccinated-czech-singer-hana-horka-dies-days-after-getting-covid-19-on-purpose/HTGLT2PD4O3V6E4CUGJS6JRLKA/

Yep, her husband and son were both vaccinated - obviously they didn't share her wacky anti-vax views. They got Covid & lived, she caught it and didn't, it is almost like the scientists are right about stuff . . .

pritch
23rd January 2022, 08:22
Aaaaand then there's Meat Loaf. " If I die I die, but I'm not going to be controlled."

pritch
23rd January 2022, 08:30
you give your email at jab time and the pass should just be emailed out then....

From memory they email a link once their records are updated.

TheDemonLord
23rd January 2022, 08:48
Aaaaand then there's Meat Loaf. " If I die I die, but I'm not going to be controlled."

Some might call that virtuous, adhering to what you believe in, even in the face of Death.

Like the Man once said:

"I would do anything for Love, but I won't do that"

R650R
23rd January 2022, 09:26
Aaaaand then there's Meat Loaf. " If I die I die, but I'm not going to be controlled."

He’s lived a long life for his category.... a lifetime of sex, drugs, rock and roll. All that travelling and continual fatigue takes its toll.
What no ones really mentioning is the high numbers of fit healthy sports stars dying.....

husaberg
23rd January 2022, 11:54
He’s lived a long life for his category.... a lifetime of sex, drugs, rock and roll. All that travelling and continual fatigue takes its toll.
What no ones really mentioning is the high numbers of fit healthy sports stars dying.....


Really high numbers of healthy people dying so what you claimed earlier is totally untrue then?


The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...


As of Dec 4 2020

1,298,455 Total tests

2219 positive test results

139 (estimated based on 6.3% in previous data of 1600/80 approx) Hospitalised

25 dead

WHY is it SO HARD to find the data on how many people in NZ NEEDED hospital treatment for this.
This number has to be actively suppressed as ALL the other data comes up very EASY in searches.
The answer is so people don’t ask WHY are we scared.
Can you imagine a Pandemic being declared of the PM said oh by the way 93% of you that actually manage to contract the virus won’t need to go to hospital just stay home and rest.
Nothing else matters the maths tells the story, especially post lockdown any new cases should have spread massively as everyone suddenly enjoyed a watered down form of freedom.
And just think of all those Asymptomatic cases in the 3,800,000 people that have NOT been tested...
There should be another 6600 odd positive cases, another 400 extra in hospital and another 75 people dead, where are they????


Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.

should we be expecting some retractions and admissions you really don't know more than actual doctors and scientists?
ps you really should show some consistency with your trolls you alternate weekly between NZ is not doing enough or too much.

pritch
23rd January 2022, 20:11
What no ones really mentioning is the high numbers of fit healthy sports stars dying.....

To tell the truth I hadn't noticed that. What I have seen is the number of RWNJ radio and TV jocks who have died in the US. Of course they have been following the gospel according to Trump. Even he hs changed his tune of late, but too late for them.

TheDemonLord
24th January 2022, 10:08
Of course they have been following the gospel according to Trump.

Except Trump was always ALL about the Vaccine.

Just for a refresher: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/27/trump-pledge-vaccine-end-2020/

And I do believe that everyone mocked Trump for promising something that was 'impossible for him to deliver, Vaccines take years to develop, Trump is lying again blah blah blah'

It was 'His' solution to the problem. Do I need to post the link again of all the Left-Wing Twitterati stating that 'They won't be taking no toxic Trump Vaccine', only for them to do a complete 180 once it was the 'Biden Vaccine'.

Trump and most of the Republican positions have been similar to mine:

"Here's the Vaccine, you should get the vaccine but it's your choice to do so or not to do so and we will not compel you via Mandates to get it"

Kendog
24th January 2022, 12:02
Except Trump was always ALL about the Vaccine.

Just for a refresher: https://www.statnews.com/2020/08/27/trump-pledge-vaccine-end-2020/

Trump and most of the Republican positions have been similar to mine:

Your memory of Trump is wrong

February 27 2020: Trump predicts that the coronavirus will disappear “like a miracle.”

“It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28 2020: Trump refers to the coronavirus as the Democrats’ “new hoax” at a rally in South Carolina.

“The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus… One of my people came up to me and said “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia, that didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax that was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in… And this is their new hoax.”

TheDemonLord
24th January 2022, 14:02
Your memory of Trump is wrong

February 27 2020: Trump predicts that the coronavirus will disappear “like a miracle.”

“It’s going to disappear. One day it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

February 28 2020: Trump refers to the coronavirus as the Democrats’ “new hoax” at a rally in South Carolina.

“The Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus… One of my people came up to me and said “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia, that didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax that was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything, they tried it over and over, they’ve been doing it since you got in… And this is their new hoax.”

That's a bit of a different issue.

Let's look at some hilarious gotchas:

When even Politifact has to acknowledge Trump has been pro-vaccine (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/)

'Fact checkers' in May 2020 say Trump is wrong about the Vaccine being ready by the end of the year (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-coronavirus-vaccine-could-come-year-trump-says-experts-n1207411)

Trump saying in March 2020 that there will be a Vaccine by the end of the Year, Fauci being wrong (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/coronavirus-trump-vaccine-rhetoric-121796)

More Left wing 'debunking' by 'fact checkers' that Trump saying there'll be a Vaccine by the end of 2020 (https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/21162772/trump-coronavirus-meeting-pharmaceutical-executives-white-house-covid-19)

CNN being wrong as above - note the date, 2nd of March (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/02/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-push-back/index.html)

I am so grateful for this opportunity to post some Trump Wins.

Kendog
24th January 2022, 15:21
That's a bit of a different issue.

Let's look at some hilarious gotchas:

When even Politifact has to acknowledge Trump has been pro-vaccine (https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/mar/04/rachel-maddow/what-trump-said-encourage-covid-19-vaccine-use/)

'Fact checkers' in May 2020 say Trump is wrong about the Vaccine being ready by the end of the year (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/fact-check-coronavirus-vaccine-could-come-year-trump-says-experts-n1207411)

Trump saying in March 2020 that there will be a Vaccine by the end of the Year, Fauci being wrong (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/03/05/coronavirus-trump-vaccine-rhetoric-121796)

More Left wing 'debunking' by 'fact checkers' that Trump saying there'll be a Vaccine by the end of 2020 (https://www.vox.com/2020/3/3/21162772/trump-coronavirus-meeting-pharmaceutical-executives-white-house-covid-19)

CNN being wrong as above - note the date, 2nd of March (https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/02/politics/donald-trump-coronavirus-vaccine-push-back/index.html)

I am so grateful for this opportunity to post some Trump Wins.


Trump wins 🤣
It’s hard to see any positives from such a powerful country and leader, when they are in the top 20 for deaths per million population.
The Covid denial (China virus, political hoax, no worse than the flu, vanish by itself) by Trump sent the country on a very bad path.

But keep posting about things he got right, cause surely they are more important than what he got wrong. Maybe the family’s of the near 900,000 dead will be happy with your research.

TheDemonLord
24th January 2022, 16:00
Trump wins 🤣
It’s hard to see any positives from such a powerful country and leader, when they are in the top 20 for deaths per million population.
The Covid denial (China virus, political hoax, no worse than the flu, vanish by itself) by Trump sent the country on a very bad path.

But keep posting about things he got right, cause surely they are more important than what he got wrong. Maybe the family’s of the near 900,000 dead will be happy with your research.

The China virus wasn't a lie. Then there was the Lab Leak that first was a Trump lie, then (mysteriously) when Biden came to power, it was true...

Personally, I'd have preferred to retain the Freedoms like certain States, than what we have here in Jacindastan.

However, more than any Trump action or inaction - the evidence seems clear that having certain pre-existing Health issues (such as Morbid Obesity) drastically increases your chances of Death.

Was it Trump's fault that the US is one of the most Obese nations? or Asthmatic?

Kendog
24th January 2022, 17:55
The China virus wasn't a lie. Then there was the Lab Leak that first was a Trump lie, then (mysteriously) when Biden came to power, it was true...

Personally, I'd have preferred to retain the Freedoms like certain States, than what we have here in Jacindastan.

However, more than any Trump action or inaction - the evidence seems clear that having certain pre-existing Health issues (such as Morbid Obesity) drastically increases your chances of Death.

Was it Trump's fault that the US is one of the most Obese nations? or Asthmatic?

Feel free to move over there

pritch
24th January 2022, 20:19
That's a bit of a different issue.



Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the first vaccine. The vaccine originated in Germany and Pfizer accepted no money from his operation Warp Speed other than for distribution.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 07:16
Trump had absolutely nothing to do with the first vaccine. The vaccine originated in Germany and Pfizer accepted no money from his operation Warp Speed other than for distribution.

'Other than for distribution'

So you mean the millions of dollars in pre-orders?
And we know (regardless of what any company says) that pre-order sales are used for development.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 07:19
Feel free to move over there

My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

But it is something I've considered.

pete376403
25th January 2022, 07:34
My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

But it is something I've considered.

Natural rights? There are no rights in nature other than kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. Are you referring to the "rights" of white, european "christians" as in Magna Carta, etc?

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 08:25
Natural rights? There are no rights in nature other than kill or be killed, eat or be eaten. Are you referring to the "rights" of white, european "christians" as in Magna Carta, etc?

Does an Animal need permission from the State to move? Or to bark/howl? Or to defend itself?

I'm referring to the rights that you are currently exercising, the ones that underpin our entire civilization.

But sure, go ahead and undermine them if you want, just don't come crying to me when it backfires.

pete376403
25th January 2022, 13:14
Backfiring pretty well, considering. The bastions of personal freedom are looking at lot worse than here.


Covid Deaths / million: USA 2590; England 2274; Australia 112; NZ 10

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1104709/coronavirus-deaths-worldwide-per-million-inhabitants/

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 14:12
Backfiring pretty well, considering. The bastions of personal freedom are looking at lot worse than here.

That depends on your perspective.

I happen to hold that certain freedoms are worth the price, in blood, that we pay for them.

Take driving for example - when you get on your bike or in your car, you are accepting that you may be killed in an accident or worse - you may kill someone else. But the freedom being able to ride/drive is so great that we accept the cost.

If someone was to take away your ability to drive/ride, based on the statement 'we are saving lives', would you be happily handing over your keys? I doubt that.

That's before we get to the unintended consequences of Lockdowns, Mask Mandates etc.

FJRider
25th January 2022, 14:37
My preference would be that Jacinda gets booted out and a government that understands and respects natural Rights comes in.

According to the natural law theory ... all people have inherent rights. Conferred not by act of legislation ... but given by "God, nature, or reason."

If your belief that the "Right" is by God ... then you must be be seen to believe that there is a God. If you don't believe there is a god ... it can't be a God given right.

Natural rights given in Nature ... are basically in regard for your own survival. Your main point of interest as such is ... who's food chain are you part of .. ??

As for Reason ... It has been argued that because human beings have reason ... and because reason is a spark of the divine (see image of God) ... all human lives are sacred and of infinite value compared to any created object (Tell that to the Vegetarian's). Meaning all humans are (supposedly) fundamentally equal ... and bestowed with an intrinsic basic set of rights that no human can remove. The downside to this part is ... no two humans can agree to what those rights actually are. Or those right will remain the same as the ages pass.

Reason (by definition) is a cause ... explanation ... or a justification for an action (or event).

Justification (by Definition)

1.The action of showing something to be right or reasonable. Usually done in a Court of Law or recognized (as such) in the current Law of the country you are in.

2. Theology ... the action of declaring or making right in the sight of God. Difficult to do if you don't believe there is a God.

Berries
25th January 2022, 16:08
Take driving for example - when you get on your bike or in your car, you are accepting that you may be killed in an accident or worse - you may kill someone else. But the freedom being able to ride/drive is so great that we accept the cost.

If someone was to take away your ability to drive/ride, based on the statement 'we are saving lives', would you be happily handing over your keys?
Good summary of the Road to Zero policy.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 16:20
According to the natural law theory ... all people have inherent rights. Conferred not by act of legislation ... but given by "God, nature, or reason."

If your belief that the "Right" is by God ... then you must be be seen to believe that there is a God. If you don't believe there is a god ... it can't be a God given right.

Natural rights given in Nature ... are basically in regard for your own survival. Your main point of interest as such is ... who's food chain are you part of .. ??

As for Reason ... It has been argued that because human beings have reason ... and because reason is a spark of the divine (see image of God) ... all human lives are sacred and of infinite value compared to any created object (Tell that to the Vegetarian's). Meaning all humans are (supposedly) fundamentally equal ... and bestowed with an intrinsic basic set of rights that no human can remove. The downside to this part is ... no two humans can agree to what those rights actually are. Or those right will remain the same as the ages pass.

Reason (by definition) is a cause ... explanation ... or a justification for an action (or event).

Justification (by Definition)

1.The action of showing something to be right or reasonable. Usually done in a Court of Law or recognized (as such) in the current Law of the country you are in.

2. Theology ... the action of declaring or making right in the sight of God. Difficult to do if you don't believe there is a God.

Certainly the concepts of Rights had it's origins in Protestant Christianity - which is the 'God Given' part, however, you note that I use the phrase 'Natural rights', because I'm an Atheist - The right to own the fruits of my Labour, the Right to move, the right to Speak and think, the right to defend myself and the Right to bodily autonomy - all of those are not hinged on the concept of a Deity.

The spark of Divinity is slightly harder for the Atheist, but I can say that you, as the individual, have an intrinsic value. The same intrinsic value that I have - and so any affront to you, is the possibility of an affront to me. I am therefore motivated to uphold your rights, because in doing so - I'm upholding my own. Or to use the ancient maxim: 'Treat others as you wish to be treated'.

So you can articulate a moral basis for the concept of Natural rights, without an appeal to God.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 16:23
Good summary of the Road to Zero policy.

Indeed.

One might say that this Government is only too happy to Ban things on the claim that they are saving lives.

One might further say that this is the hallmark of Bureaucratic Dictators who think they can build the perfect society if they just force everyone to do as they say.

pritch
25th January 2022, 17:56
I happen to hold that certain freedoms are worth the price, in blood, that we pay for them.


Other people's blood? I must have missed the bit where you put your blood on the line for freedom. Forgive me. :whistle:

jellywrestler
25th January 2022, 18:12
Other people's blood? I must have missed the bit where you put your blood on the line for freedom. Forgive me. :whistle:

so are they going to keep this omicron shit dribbling into the community at ten a day and shut down so much so we have to deal with the actual outbreak in the colder months or what? It's about time someone with it did a roadie so we can all get it over and done with and still have some summer left.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 18:54
Other people's blood? I must have missed the bit where you put your blood on the line for freedom. Forgive me. :whistle:

I do my bit, in my own way.

Granted, I've never served in the Armed Forces (and that's only because NZ doesn't have a fighter jet wing).

R650R
25th January 2022, 20:54
so are they going to keep this omicron shit dribbling into the community at ten a day and shut down so much so we have to deal with the actual outbreak in the colder months or what? It's about time someone with it did a roadie so we can all get it over and done with and still have some summer left.

Apparently despite 90% being vaccinated it’s to give people time Tim get better vacccinsted.....

But your right we should let nature run it’s course, all over seas experts say omicron is less severe and it triggers a different part of immune system helping build natural immunity.

Just look at Xmas and new year holiday period suddenly we went overnight from 200 cases a week to twenty something. How did that happen? It happened because no one wanted to be imprisined during their holiday so I’d bet a heap of people who had sniffles and didn’t need to bludge some sick pay skipped being tested. How did it not explode with peoplectravelling all over country????
Fresh air and salt water maybe????!

The best thing about this new lockdown level 3.2(tm) also marketed as Red(tm) is it’s letting the party faithful see the truth. We all got vaccinated downloaded apps and scanned stuff everywhere just so the govt could let the latest version until coubtry with poorly managed border controls.

FJRider
25th January 2022, 20:55
Certainly the concepts of Rights had it's origins in Protestant Christianity - which is the 'God Given' part, however, you note that I use the phrase 'Natural rights', because I'm an Atheist - The right to own the fruits of my Labour, the Right to move, the right to Speak and think, the right to defend myself and the Right to bodily autonomy - all of those are not hinged on the concept of a Deity.

Most of what I posted in regard of "Natural Rights" ... the words were not mine. Nothing was seen in regards of Fruits of labour, rights to move, rights to speak, rights to defend yourself ... or the right to bodily autonomy.

Fruits of your labour are called wages ... get a paying job anytime you like. Australia is a nice place ... go now before the rush starts. You talk to much. Fat useless pricks are seldom any good at defending themselves ... so I can see why you need rights to protect yourself. I would have said go fuck yourself ... but you're obviously not keen on that either.




The spark of Divinity is slightly harder for the Atheist, but I can say that you, as the individual, have an intrinsic value. The same intrinsic value that I have - and so any affront to you, is the possibility of an affront to me. I am therefore motivated to uphold your rights, because in doing so - I'm upholding my own. Or to use the ancient maxim: 'Treat others as you wish to be treated'.

You are entitled to your opinion ... but unless it's written into law ... good luck.



So you can articulate a moral basis for the concept of Natural rights, without an appeal to God.

You do ...

The rights I have to do things, own things, go places ... and have things like a living wage ... were earned through a lifetime of hard work.

Not sitting on my ass and getting all I wanted handed to me Gratis.

And ... certainly NOT given to me by ANY God.

ps: Life isn't always fair. Get over it.

husaberg
25th January 2022, 21:04
Apparently despite 90% being vaccinated it’s to give people time Tim get better vacccinsted.....

But your right we should let nature run it’s course, all over seas experts say omicron is less severe and it triggers a different part of immune system helping build natural immunity.

Just look at Xmas and new year holiday period suddenly we went overnight from 200 cases a week to twenty something. How did that happen? It happened because no one wanted to be imprisined during their holiday so I’d bet a heap of people who had sniffles and didn’t need to bludge some sick pay skipped being tested. How did it not explode with peoplectravelling all over country????
Fresh air and salt water maybe????!

The best thing about this new lockdown level 3.2(tm) also marketed as Red(tm) is it’s letting the party faithful see the truth. We all got vaccinated downloaded apps and scanned stuff everywhere just so the govt could let the latest version until coubtry with poorly managed border controls.

shit dude, first you have said covid is nothing and the govt is over reacting, then its the worst ever and the Govt has not done enough, Then you are back to they are doing to much
At least your total inconsistency is consistent......
What are your scientific or medial qualifications that give you such insights to have a more qualified opinion than a medical or scientific expert?



The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.
You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..
Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...



Can you imagine a Pandemic being declared of the PM said oh by the way 93% of you that actually manage to contract the virus won’t need to go to hospital just stay home and rest.
Nothing else matters the maths tells the story, especially post lockdown any new cases should have spread massively as everyone suddenly enjoyed a watered down form of freedom.
And just think of all those Asymptomatic cases in the 3,800,000 people that have NOT been tested...
There should be another 6600 odd positive cases, another 400 extra in hospital and another 75 people dead, where are they????


Well it seems the MORE deadly and MORE contagious delta variant failed to deliver... just think about that, the infected person came on a flight where people would have taken masks off at times to eat and drink and all shared the same inflight tier facilities. THEN they sauntered all over a MAJOR metropolitan area and thefe was no outbreak.
Guess that’s why an ever nastier version lambda? Starts with L has just been “ discovered”....

Oh but we’ve locked down so quick, yes but not before the exposure events and not before all those exposed on weekends away returned to provincial centres.

One has to wonder if the new respiratory infection in young kids is a result of the sterility of lockdown life not letting there immune systems learn properly in early development months as the age band is very low.

TheDemonLord
25th January 2022, 21:53
Most of what I posted in regard of "Natural Rights" ... the words were not mine. Nothing was seen in regards of Fruits of labour, rights to move, rights to speak, rights to defend yourself ... or the right to bodily autonomy.

Commonly expressed as 'Life, Liberty and Property'

Life is your Self Defence and Bodily Autonomy.
Liberty is the Freedom to move and to speak
And Property is the fruits of your labour.



You are entitled to your opinion ... but unless it's written into law ... good luck.

Sure, but the problem here (if you want to challenge that notion) is that it just so happens to be the bedrock upon which our Civilization rests.

It's the reason that the Government (currently at least...) don't kick peoples doors in at 4 am and whisk them off for a spot of Torture and re-education.

There are many places in the world that DON'T share that philsophical foundation, and they have all sorts of delightful problems.


You do ...

The rights I have to do things, own things, go places ... and have things like a living wage ... were earned through a lifetime of hard work.

If they are Earned, then they aren't rights.



Not sitting on my ass and getting all I wanted handed to me Gratis.

And ... certainly NOT given to me by ANY God.

ps: Life isn't always fair. Get over it.

Sure, I don't believe that the rights are God Given, but I do believe that they are Natural. Both from a purely logical point of view, but also from an empirical point of view.

Consider this: The most powerful and prosperous nation on earth has these principles enshrined in their Constitution, their highest law - that isn't an accident.

pritch
26th January 2022, 08:06
Well gents, reading these recent posts was a good start to the day. Quite a few laughs, some intentional, others less so.

Enjoy the rest of your day.

sugilite
26th January 2022, 08:37
Consider this: The most powerful and prosperous nation on earth has these principles enshrined in their Constitution, their highest law - that isn't an accident.
And yet both sides of their political divide are doing their darnedest to undermine and break down those principles - also no accident.
At the rate they are going, you will need to add the word "former" most powerful and prosperous nation.

TheDemonLord
26th January 2022, 08:44
And yet both sides of their political divide are doing their darnedest to undermine and break down those principles - also no accident.
At the rate they are going, you will need to add the word "former" most powerful and prosperous nation.

Funny, there's only one side that seeks Mandates, and it isn't the Republicans. Not saying they are perfect, but they have consistently been on the side of individual choice and freedom (in line with American principles).

But yes, I agree at the rate they are going.

It's almost like when the ruling party abandons those principles, it goes to shit...

Almost like there's some empirical wisdom in them...

Kendog
26th January 2022, 12:17
Consider this: The most powerful and prosperous nation on earth has these principles enshrined in their Constitution, their highest law - that isn't an accident.

So why did they fuck up their response to Covid so badly?

Inside the top 20 deaths per million population.
Almost 900,000 dead

TheDemonLord
26th January 2022, 12:39
So why did they fuck up their response to Covid so badly?

Inside the top 20 deaths per million population.
Almost 900,000 dead

To quote Benjamin Franklin:


Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

It's entirely in the ethos of the United States that Liberty has a cost (Freedom isn't Free...) and therefore if people die, but liberty is preserved - it's considered not only Just, but Noble. To quote another famous US phrase:


Give me liberty, or give me death!

And finally (because it's always good to include a Meme)

https://cdn.dopl3r.com//media/memes_files/english-literature-french-literature-i-will-die-for-honour-i-will-die-for-love-american-literature-russian-literature-i-will-die-for-freedom-i-will-die-sm8pm.jpg

Back to the actual issue:

Add in to that - you have lots of internal Air Travel and public transport usage, a Massively aging and overweight population and in the big cities, high population density.

All factors that made the USA hit quite hard.

R650R
26th January 2022, 14:41
So why did they fuck up their response to Covid so badly?

Inside the top 20 deaths per million population.
Almost 900,000 dead

Just out of interest what’s it like under Biden? Cause wasn’t all the deaths trumps fault????
Trumps racist actions in closing birder to China stopped Chinese people from coming to die in America so that prob distorted the stats

FJRider
26th January 2022, 15:43
Commonly expressed as 'Life, Liberty and Property'

Life is your Self Defence and Bodily Autonomy.
Liberty is the Freedom to move and to speak
And Property is the fruits of your labour.

If you have life ... you're breathing. Always a good start to the day if you know you're breathing. What you do with your life is what counts.
Liberty is the ability to go where you wish. Within the bounds of law. In these times of Covid ... a few have a little less liberty to go where they please.
Property is owned ... and not always by you. For many ... the fruits of their labour (or Benefit) is a meal at McDonalds.


Sure, but the problem here (if you want to challenge that notion) is that it just so happens to be the bedrock upon which our Civilization rests.

Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Your opinions are not the "Bedrock on which our Civilization[sic] rests.

If you have confused your opinions as being part of "Freedom of speech" ... the Law is quite specific about what you can or can't say.


It's the reason that the Government (currently at least...) don't kick peoples doors in at 4 am and whisk them off for a spot of Torture and re-education.

Kick the doors down ... yep they STILL do. Long periods of questioning at the local (or not so local) Police station happen. Some might call that torture.

Bugger eh .. !!!


There are many places in the world that DON'T share that philsophical foundation, and they have all sorts of delightful problems.

Not my problem. I don't go to those places (without being armed).


If they are Earned, then they aren't rights.

I have the right to buy property ... but I need money. Until I earn it ... I wont get property.

I have heard Beneficiaries on TV moaning ... that their Benefit isn't enough to buy themselves a house.

Even the right to liberty is earned ... by continued good behavior and undetected crime. Thus your liberty can be withheld. Indefinitely.


Sure, I don't believe that the rights are God Given, but I do believe that they are Natural. Both from a purely logical point of view, but also from an empirical point of view.

Bullshit. I've seen you mention your "God given rights" in this very forum.

Even the countries that have laws based on Human Rights ... will have conditions and restrictions (written into their law as in NZ) ... as in "Free" speech. There ARE restrictions on what you can legally say.


Consider this: The most powerful and prosperous nation on earth has these principles enshrined in their Constitution, their highest law - that isn't an accident.

What nation would that be ... ?? If you think its the USA ... think again. Count the zero's in their listed National debit.

Personally ... I doubt you can count that high.

FJRider
26th January 2022, 16:28
To quote Benjamin Franklin:

Unless you read the background to that quote ... you cannot quote with accuracy. And ACTUAL fact.

He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns. The proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so the Penn family actually intended (literally) buy a little temporary safety. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

So ... far from being a pro-privacy quotation ... if anything ... it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

It is also a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means (in context) not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying ... but much closer to the opposite of what people think it means.

Look it up if you don't believe me.



It's entirely in the ethos of the United States that Liberty has a cost (Freedom isn't Free...) and therefore if people die, but liberty is preserved - it's considered not only Just, but Noble.

Many died fighting for the USA to remain free and gave up their liberty and lives to achieve that.

The true cost of Liberty is always understated. But it was earned at a cost.

Few will know to thank those that gave up their own freedoms and rights (one being to stay alive) ... for the privilege of those remaining ... to enjoy their freedoms ... rights ... AND LIVES.


And quite a number of New Zealanders died to preserve OUR "RIGHT" to those freedoms.

TheDemonLord
26th January 2022, 17:12
If you have life ... you're breathing. Always a good start to the day if you know you're breathing. What you do with your life is what counts.
Liberty is the ability to go where you wish. Within the bounds of law. In these times of Covid ... a few have a little less liberty to go where they please.
Property is owned ... and not always by you. For many ... the fruits of their labour (or Benefit) is a meal at McDonalds.

You're essentially making the argument that Covid restrictions are immoral - which I entirely applaud.


Your opinion is YOUR opinion. Your opinions are not the "Bedrock on which our Civilization[sic] rests.

If you have confused your opinions as being part of "Freedom of speech" ... the Law is quite specific about what you can or can't say.

The Bedrock is the Protestant notion that the Individual contains the spark of Divinity and that any affront to the individual is an affront to God.

From there we got the concept of 'God Given Rights' something which was ordained by a higher authority than Man and so could not be restricted by Man.
These evolved in the Western philosophical cannon (Hobbes/Locke) that without any Government, an Individual had certain Freedoms that existed in Nature (Natural Rights) and that these were equivalent to the notion of God Given, without the appeal to a deity.

I'm not confused, this is simply the fact of how our society Evolved. In terms of Freedom of Speech - sure Libel/slander is prohibited, but that is usually judged with a bias towards Freedom of Speech (well, it used to be...)



Kick the doors down ... yep they STILL do. Long periods of questioning at the local (or not so local) Police station happen. Some might call that torture.

Bugger eh .. !!!

I'm talking more about the Re-education type of Torture, the Social Credit type of police raid.



Not my problem. I don't go to those places (without being armed).

And when those places come to you, because of the erosion of the bulwark against them that was Western Civilization, what then?


Even the right to liberty is earned ... by continued good behavior and undetected crime. Thus your liberty can be withheld. Indefinitely.

Nope, that's the wrong way to conceptualize it.

You have Liberty, until you violate the liberty of others. It is not Earned, it is Granted until YOU violate it.


Bullshit. I've seen you mention your "God given rights" in this very forum.

Correct, normally in conjuction with 'Natural Rights', because I'm an Atheist.


Even the countries that have laws based on Human Rights ... will have conditions and restrictions (written into their law as in NZ) ... as in "Free" speech. There ARE restrictions on what you can legally say.

Some might say that those restrictions (see the Covid Lockdowns, Covid Passports, Jacinda's 'Two-Tier society') are in complete violation of those Human Rights.

Most can accept the concept of Libel/Slander as an exception to Free Speech, since it violates the rights of others, apart from that, there is very little that is restricted.

Hell, I can go to Whitcoulls/Amazon and buy a copy of the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf, although I should add - with their banning/censorious nature, if Labour continue, I'm not sure how long such things will last.


What nation would that be ... ?? If you think its the USA ... think again. Count the zero's in their listed National debit.

Personally ... I doubt you can count that high.

If WW3 happened tomorrow, which side would you want to be on?

The Yanks, The Chinese, the Russians, The British?

For all their faults, the Yanks are still the biggest kid on the block (despite Biden's best efforts to destroy that)



Unless you read the background to that quote ... you cannot quote with accuracy. And ACTUAL fact.

He was writing about a tax dispute between the Pennsylvania General Assembly and the family of the Penns. The proprietary family of the Pennsylvania colony who ruled it from afar. And the legislature was trying to tax the Penn family lands to pay for frontier defense during the French and Indian War. And the Penn family kept instructing the governor to veto. Franklin felt that this was a great affront to the ability of the legislature to govern. And so the Penn family actually intended (literally) buy a little temporary safety. The Penn family was trying to give a lump sum of money in exchange for the General Assembly's acknowledging that it did not have the authority to tax it.

So ... far from being a pro-privacy quotation ... if anything ... it's a pro-taxation and pro-defense spending quotation.

It is also a quotation that defends the authority of a legislature to govern in the interests of collective security. It means (in context) not quite the opposite of what it's almost always quoted as saying ... but much closer to the opposite of what people think it means.

Look it up if you don't believe me.

I'm aware of the original context, however the reason it has been remembered through the nearly 250 years since it was written is because it articulates an ethos that is core to the American identity.

There are other phrases that have had drastic changes to their meaning over time - the lady doth Protest too much as an example.

So yes, Franklin may have meant it in the context you cited, but the context that has preserved it through the ages is the one in which I and virtually everyone else who cites it, uses it.


Many died fighting for the USA to remain free and gave up their liberty and lives to achieve that.

The true cost of Liberty is always understated. But it was earned at a cost.

Few will know to thank those that gave up their own freedoms and rights (one being to stay alive) ... for the privilege of those remaining ... to enjoy their freedoms ... rights ... AND LIVES.

And quite a number of New Zealanders died to preserve OUR "RIGHT" to those freedoms.

I totally agree, which is why often you will see anti-Lockdown and anti-Authoritarian statements evoking the sacrifices made for freedom by those that have fallen.

husaberg
26th January 2022, 18:04
Just out of interest what’s it like under Biden? Cause wasn’t all the deaths trumps fault????
Trumps racist actions in closing birder to China stopped Chinese people from coming to die in America so that prob distorted the stats

really? That's odd as the actual facts differ.
Trump’s travel ban on China was ordered January 31st — He did not shut down "all" travel from China and Europe.
He closed the border to most foreigners travel from China to the U.S. — exempting U.S. citizens and some others — but he did not shut down the borders completely. On March 11, Trump ordered the border closed to foreigners coming to the U.S. from 26 European states, but not all of Europe.
The U.S. implemented a restriction on foreign travelers who had been in China in the past two weeks, at 5 p.m. Feb. 2. Italy had already done so by Jan. 31 (https://edition.cnn.com/asia/live-news/coronavirus-outbreak-01-31-20-intl-hnk/h_ed756d2007470c7fb4eeb4492bafabf5) and North Korea had banned all foreign tourists Jan. 22. (https://www.youngpioneertours.com/dprk-closes-border/)
.

FJRider
26th January 2022, 23:33
You're essentially making the argument that Covid restrictions are immoral - which I entirely applaud.

Those people made the free choice of action (or is that actually inaction) ... knowing what the result would be in that regard. Their choice ... their problem.

I don't even find whorehouses immoral ... so other peoples self inflicted restrictions ... don't cause me any grief. Sorry.


The Bedrock is the Protestant notion that the Individual contains the spark of Divinity and that any affront to the individual is an affront to God.

I was brought up[ Presbyterian ... but the spark of divinity never caught hold.

Those that don't believe in a god ... care little about what protestants notions are held. Or hold no belief they could be right.

If you actually believe there is a god ... you might have a better argument.


From there we got the concept of 'God Given Rights' something which was ordained by a higher authority than Man and so could not be restricted by Man.

It's difficult to believe that some of your rights are given by god ... if you don't believe in god. A Catch 22 sort of situation. If one does not exist ... neither can the other.


These evolved in the Western philosophical cannon (Hobbes/Locke) that without any Government, an Individual had certain Freedoms that existed in Nature (Natural Rights) and that these were equivalent to the notion of God Given, without the appeal to a deity.

Philosophical discussions are not my strong point. But those with a philosophical attitude have (or are showing) a calm attitude towards disappointments. In that regard ... be as philosophical as you like. And get used to disappointment. Proving your theories might be difficult.


I'm not confused, this is simply the fact of how our society Evolved. In terms of Freedom of Speech - sure Libel/slander is prohibited, but that is usually judged with a bias towards Freedom of Speech (well, it used to be...)

Society evolved to the point that what most believe ... isn't either fact OR Law. Go figure.

Those two you mentioned ... a start. By no means the end though.


I'm talking more about the Re-education type of Torture, the Social Credit type of police raid.

Have you considered ... it might still (can) happen ?? On matters of National Security ... the powers are STILL there.


And when those places come to you, because of the erosion of the bulwark against them that was Western Civilization, what then?

I'll find a fat useless cunt to stand behind.


Nope, that's the wrong way to conceptualize it.

Some of my relatives fought so your liberty could be continued. Reality obviously isn't your strong point.


You have Liberty, until you violate the liberty of others. It is not Earned, it is Granted until YOU violate it.

See above ... and your liberty can be taken also. In a Court of law. In THIS country too. See above about reality.


Correct, normally in conjuction with 'Natural Rights', because I'm an Atheist.

You simply can't have a God given right if you don't believe that a god exists. No "conjunction" can thus be made with something that does not exist.


Some might say that those restrictions (see the Covid Lockdowns, Covid Passports, Jacinda's 'Two-Tier society') are in complete violation of those Human Rights.

See a Lawyer. Fight it. Good luck.


Most can accept the concept of Libel/Slander as an exception to Free Speech, since it violates the rights of others, apart from that, there is very little that is restricted.

It may surprise you to learn the truth about that. Look it up. There is a LOT more.


Hell, I can go to Whitcoulls/Amazon and buy a copy of the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf, although I should add - with their banning/censorious nature, if Labour continue, I'm not sure how long such things will last.

Under freedom of the press some things are still allowed to be read. NZ doesn't really have many censorship issues in that regard. But incitement laws may be relevant to be read ... before encouraging others to take anti-Government actions. You may be visited at 4am ...


If WW3 happened tomorrow, which side would you want to be on?

The Yanks, The Chinese, the Russians, The British?

For all their faults, the Yanks are still the biggest kid on the block (despite Biden's best efforts to destroy that)

The Yanks like to think they are. Even without Biden's help.

We have treaties with the Yanks AND Poms. And we trade with the other two. Can THEY afford a war ... or can they afford NOT to start a war ??


I'm aware of the original context, however the reason it has been remembered through the nearly 250 years since it was written is because it articulates an ethos that is core to the American identity.

It has been remembered wrongly (and not just by you ... so don't feel too bad about it) and thusly you misquoted him. Your mistake.


There are other phrases that have had drastic changes to their meaning over time - the lady doth Protest too much as an example.

Never heard of it.


So yes, Franklin may have meant it in the context you cited, but the context that has preserved it through the ages is the one in which I and virtually everyone else who cites it, uses it.

Remembered ... misquoted ... misunderstood ... and I see no chance that the misquoting of it stopping anytime soon. I see it as the lack of a decent education of some.

Blame your school teachers.


I totally agree, which is why often you will see anti-Lockdown and anti-Authoritarian statements evoking the sacrifices made for freedom by those that have fallen.

National Pandemics have different rules to be followed than your average war or invasion. But (usually) the best way to fight either ... is by any means at your disposal. Choosing to do nothing and letting others fight your battle ... wasn't the Kiwi way I learned about in High school history class.

In Pandemics ... it's the weaker one's that die out first. Such is life. Those that refuse to take vaccines to (supposedly) help you fight the virus ... could be a little shortsighted.

Time will tell.

TheDemonLord
27th January 2022, 08:52
Those people made the free choice of action (or is that actually inaction) ... knowing what the result would be in that regard. Their choice ... their problem.
I don't even find whorehouses immoral ... so other peoples self inflicted restrictions ... don't cause me any grief. Sorry.

And what when other peoples restrictions, end up infringing on what you want to do? Will that cause you grief?




I was brought up[ Presbyterian ... but the spark of divinity never caught hold.

Those that don't believe in a god ... care little about what protestants notions are held. Or hold no belief they could be right.

If you actually believe there is a god ... you might have a better argument.

It's difficult to believe that some of your rights are given by god ... if you don't believe in god. A Catch 22 sort of situation. If one does not exist ... neither can the other.

I can outline the history of an idea that started in Christianity, without being Christian. The genesis (pun fully intended) of the idea of rights IS a Christian one. It evolved into having an Atheistic equivalent.

Which is why I use Natural Rights and include that when I'm referencing God-Given Rights.


Philosophical discussions are not my strong point. But those with a philosophical attitude have (or are showing) a calm attitude towards disappointments. In that regard ... be as philosophical as you like. And get used to disappointment. Proving your theories might be difficult.

Quite.




Society evolved to the point that what most believe ... isn't either fact OR Law. Go figure.

Those two you mentioned ... a start. By no means the end though.

Sure, there's incitement, there's also ones that a priori need a crime to happen (e.g. videos of real murder, CP etc.) but the argument there isn't a Freedom of Speech issue, it's that in order to produce, there has to be a violation of someone elses rights


Have you considered ... it might still (can) happen ?? On matters of National Security ... the powers are STILL there.

The closest in recent memory was the fiasco over Kim Dotcom - and that ended as a big egg on the Governments face. And whilst the powers are still there, there are checks and balances predicated on the individual having rights that limit their usage.



Some of my relatives fought so your liberty could be continued. Reality obviously isn't your strong point.

As did mine - however when it comes to Rights, they are not earned. There is no test that one has to pass (for example) to have Bodily Autonomy. Sure, there may be Tyrants that wish to infringe on that right (which I consider Immoral) and that may necessitate Conflict for the right to be preserved, but the Right always existed.

Again, the example of the Man in the field, without any of the constraint of society - He is free to move, to speak, to defend himself and to decide what happens to his Body.



See above ... and your liberty can be taken also. In a Court of law. In THIS country too. See above about reality.

Only when you violate the rights of others. That's the bit you are missing.


You simply can't have a God given right if you don't believe that a god exists. No "conjunction" can thus be made with something that does not exist.

I can reference a concept that exists (but I don't believe in) and reference it in conjunction with a concept that also exists (that I do believe in).

I personally don't believe that rights are granted by God, but I accept there is a concept of a God-given right. I also respect that this particular strand of thought is responsible for the development of the concept of 'Natural rights' which I do believe in.


See a Lawyer. Fight it. Good luck.

I actually read the Human Rights Commission of NZs thoughts on Covid Passports - it was essentially a perfect argument as to why that institution isn't fit for the purpose it proports to be for and should be disbanded.


It may surprise you to learn the truth about that. Look it up. There is a LOT more.

See above as to most of the examples you are likely to cite are predicated on the violation of other rights.


The Yanks like to think they are. Even without Biden's help.

We have treaties with the Yanks AND Poms. And we trade with the other two. Can THEY afford a war ... or can they afford NOT to start a war ??

And which side would you rather be on? I think we both know the answer - which is the side whose governance is based on the Liberal principles I espouse - and the reason for the lack of answer is because if you admit that, you are also proving (empirically) a number of my assertions.


It has been remembered wrongly (and not just by you ... so don't feel too bad about it) and thusly you misquoted him. Your mistake.

Remembered ... misquoted ... misunderstood ... and I see no chance that the misquoting of it stopping anytime soon. I see it as the lack of a decent education of some.

Blame your school teachers.

The Artist does not get to dictate the interpretation of their Art.

Regardless of what the Context was, the reason the quote has stood the test of time is because it speaks to a core part of the American identity: Freedom is the highest value.

Or if you'd like another quote:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

So yes, it may be incorrect from the original usage, it's usage has evolved with time and it is in that context that I use it.


Never heard of it.

Shakespeare, Hamlet IIRC. The original meaning was that a character was promising too much, however the common usage now is of someone demonstrating their guilt, by excessively pleading their innocence.


National Pandemics have different rules to be followed than your average war or invasion. But (usually) the best way to fight either ... is by any means at your disposal. Choosing to do nothing and letting others fight your battle ... wasn't the Kiwi way I learned about in High school history class.

In Pandemics ... it's the weaker one's that die out first. Such is life. Those that refuse to take vaccines to (supposedly) help you fight the virus ... could be a little shortsighted.

Time will tell.

Sure, in an existential threat to the National, sometimes certain freedoms might be curtailed. Identity cards in WW2, Rationing etc. And where the Pandemic dropping people like flies (and not a 99% survival rate), you might have a point. If it particularly affected Children, you might have a point.

The question is whether the response is proportional to the threat. Suffice to say I think it isn't. I also happen to think there will be some very interesting unintended consequences in the future for the over-reaction to Covid.

FJRider
27th January 2022, 12:09
And what when other peoples restrictions, end up infringing on what you want to do? Will that cause you grief?

I haven't noticed any issues in that regard so far. A few disgruntled (intended patron failures) provide continued amusement ... :laugh:


I can outline the history of an idea that started in Christianity, without being Christian. The genesis (pun fully intended) of the idea of rights IS a Christian one. It evolved into having an Atheistic equivalent.

You don't believe in God ... but you believe what they do ... ??? :shifty:




Quite.

Good luck with that ... :shifty:


Sure, there's incitement, there's also ones that a priori need a crime to happen (e.g. videos of real murder, CP etc.) but the argument there isn't a Freedom of Speech issue, it's that in order to produce, there has to be a violation of someone elses rights

If the rules for "Freedom" of speaking are followed ... nobody else's rights need be violated. It's that simple ... :laugh:


The closest in recent memory was the fiasco over Kim Dotcom - and that ended as a big egg on the Governments face. And whilst the powers are still there, there are checks and balances predicated on the individual having rights that limit their usage.

That YOU are aware of. ie: But that one made the news. The others did not.

If you actually believe there were NO other such occasions of a similar nature ... because YOU didn't hear about it ... :stupid:


There is no test that one has to pass (for example) to have Bodily Autonomy.

In NZ at this time ... "Bodily Autonomy" is already written into law under the heading of rape. Calling it a "Right" changes NOTHING in regard to stopping it happening ... :shifty:


Again, the example of the Man in the field, without any of the constraint of society - He is free to move, to speak, to defend himself and to decide what happens to his Body.

As above ... it IS written into Law in NZ ... you have the right to defend yourself. Fat useless pricks find that difficult though.


Only when you violate the rights of others. That's the bit you are missing.

It's the bit many forget though. Having ability but not the right.


I can reference a concept that ...

The only concepts I know of that are protected in law are Patents.


I personally don't believe that rights are granted by God, but I accept there is a concept ...

See above regarding concepts ... :msn-wink:


I actually read the Human Rights Commission of NZs thoughts on Covid Passports - it was essentially a perfect argument as to why that institution isn't fit for the purpose it proports to be for and should be disbanded.

To date ... nothing has changed ... The Covid Passport system is STILL in use.

Argue that ... :shifty:


See above as to most of the examples you are likely to cite are predicated on the violation of other rights.

As with most breaches of rights ... those with their rights breached must report it.

Simple ... right .. ???


And which side would you rather be on? I think we both know the answer - which is the side whose governance is based on the Liberal principles I espouse - and the reason for the lack of answer is because if you admit that, you are also proving (empirically) a number of my assertions.

I prefer winning sides. The last few wars the yanks had ... didn't end well.

The most powerful nation on earth loosing wars ... ??? :confused::confused::confused:


Think about it ... :shifty:


The Artist does not get to dictate the interpretation of their Art.

Sometimes ... only the artist calls it art. Go figure.


Regardless of what the Context was, the reason the quote has stood the test of time is because it speaks to a core part of the American identity: Freedom is the highest value.

It was actually about temporary financial support offered to the Government ... in return for a tax dodge. Hardly a deal of "The highest value" ... ;)


Or if you'd like another quote:

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Or ... wait for the rain. Given time ... no evidence will remain of it.


So yes, it may be incorrect from the original usage, it's usage has evolved with time and it is in that context that I use it.

No ... you (as many before you did) misquoted it. The original meaning remains as it was.

You could have used ... Patrick Henry's quote ... Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death. For you (I believe) a viable option ... :shifty:


Shakespeare, Hamlet IIRC. The original meaning was that a character was promising too much, however the common usage now is of someone demonstrating their guilt, by excessively pleading their innocence.

You do exactly that quite often.


Funny that ... :bleh:


Sure, in an existential threat to the National, sometimes certain freedoms might be curtailed. Identity cards in WW2, Rationing etc. And where the Pandemic dropping people like flies (and not a 99% survival rate), you might have a point. If it particularly affected Children, you might have a point.

And who is to say that the next variant of Covid will not affect children more ?? To date the least protected.


The question is whether the response is proportional to the threat. Suffice to say I think it isn't. I also happen to think there will be some very interesting unintended consequences in the future for the over-reaction to Covid.

One piece of advice ... always take threats seriously. Determine actual risk later when you had time to evaluate risk. The life you save may be your own.

TheDemonLord
27th January 2022, 13:41
I haven't noticed any issues in that regard so far.

And what happens when you do notice issues?



You don't believe in God ... but you believe what they do ... ??? :shifty:

I believe that their belief in a God helped shape a set of values, which subsequently was reasoned to also have an Atheistic basis.

Acknowledging that it was their belief in a God that started that process is simply being faithful to the historical record.


If the rules for "Freedom" of speaking are followed ... nobody else's rights need be violated. It's that simple ... :laugh:

Not quite, if I spread a rumour about you that results in you loosing all your property etc. Have I violated your rights? That's where we get Slander from.

If I yell 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre, and in the resulting stampede, people are seriously injured or even killed, Have I violated their rights? That's where we get incitement from.

Most of the laws I haven't mentioned are derived from those concepts.



That YOU are aware of. ie: But that one made the news. The others did not.

If you actually believe there were NO other such occasions of a similar nature ... because YOU didn't hear about it ... :stupid:

Suffice to say it's not a common enough occurrence that it's within the public conscious.



In NZ at this time ... "Bodily Autonomy" is already written into law under the heading of rape. Calling it a "Right" changes NOTHING in regard to stopping it happening ... :shifty:

Not at the point of injury, but it does proved the basis for Recourse. If someone tried to do that, and you killed them - would that be considered Ethical or justified?



As above ... it IS written into Law in NZ ... you have the right to defend yourself. Fat useless pricks find that difficult though.

Indeed, it's almost like the Laws are written referencing this concept.



The only concepts I know of that are protected in law are Patents.

So, if I take your bike, do you not have a legal recourse against me?



To date ... nothing has changed ... The Covid Passport system is STILL in use.

Argue that ... :shifty:

IF the Human Rights Commission weren't raving Lefties and actually stuck to the principle of Human Rights, they would have told the Government to piss off.



As with most breaches of rights ... those with their rights breached must report it.

Simple ... right .. ???

You can't report something to those that are willfully blind. Civil Disobedience on the other hand...



I prefer winning sides. The last few wars the yanks had ... didn't end well.

The most powerful nation on earth loosing wars ... ??? :confused::confused::confused:


Think about it ... :shifty:

I put it to you that the Yanks could have won, if they had the will to follow through...

So I guess from that statement, you'll be siding with Britain, Undefeated since 1781.



It was actually about temporary financial support offered to the Government ... in return for a tax dodge. Hardly a deal of "The highest value" ... ;)

Yes, but what has sustained the quote, to the point where non-americans cite it 250 years later, is it's appeal to Freedom and it's condemnation of trading Freedom for security.


No ... you (as many before you did) misquoted it. The original meaning remains as it was.

But meanings can change and this is a perfect example of where something has changed from what it originally was intended - to it's current usage.



You could have used ... Patrick Henry's quote ... Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death. For you (I believe) a viable option ... :shifty:

And wouldn't you know it, I did. In the same post....

Bit of an 'Oof!' for you...


And who is to say that the next variant of Covid will not affect children more ?? To date the least protected.

I mean, we've got 4? 5? Major variants, millions upon millions of cases - I think the data at this point is pretty clear. Also an interesting note is that Viral mutations generally become weaker and not stronger.



One piece of advice ... always take threats seriously. Determine actual risk later when you had time to evaluate risk. The life you save may be your own.

Which threats?

And in what order?

When we wake up in the morning there are a million and 1 different threats to us. If we spend all our time taking every threat seriously, that's a neurological disorder.

We can't take all threats seriously.

Specifically in relation to Covid, I think that the Authoritarian measures, the System that provides a full track and trace of where people go and the creation of a 2-tier society are dangerous precedents that will have negative consequences. Some immediately know, others likely to reveal themselves over time.

FJRider
27th January 2022, 18:00
And what happens when you do notice issues?

I'll let you know if I have any. It was laugh a minute today with all the numpties with no covid pass.

Got my booster shot yesterday. Feeling great.



I believe that their belief in a God helped shape a set of values, which subsequently was reasoned to also have an Atheistic basis.

Good for you ...


Not quite, if I spread a rumour about you that results in you loosing all your property etc. Have I violated your rights? That's where we get Slander from.

Feel free to try ...


If I yell 'FIRE!' in a crowded theatre, and in the resulting stampede, people are seriously injured or even killed, Have I violated their rights? That's where we get incitement from.

And you'd probably get jail time.

Go for it ... what could possibly go wrong ... ??


Most of the laws I haven't mentioned are derived from those concepts.

Concepts are only ideas. They can even be GREAT ideas ... but until they are turned into Reality ... they are only ideas.


Suffice to say it's not a common enough occurrence that it's within the public conscious.

That you are aware of. If you never hear about such things ... you'll never know for sure.

The security breaches you mentioned ... would have resulted in increased security.

But you keep believing it doesn't happen. You'll sleep better.


Not at the point of injury, but it does proved the basis for Recourse. If someone tried to do that, and you killed them - would that be considered Ethical or justified?

What if they killed you .. ??


Indeed, it's almost like the Laws are written referencing this concept.

Not worth a dam if they kill you first.


So, if I take your bike, do you not have a legal recourse against me?

Aside from the fact that I don't have a bike right now ... it's not the legal recourse you need to fear.


IF the Human Rights Commission weren't raving Lefties and actually stuck to the principle of Human Rights, they would have told the Government to piss off.

Perhaps ... their belief that the right to life ... is more to the point than a few loss of freedoms ...


You can't report something to those that are willfully blind. Civil Disobedience on the other hand...

Good luck with that.


I put it to you that the Yanks could have won, if they had the will to follow through...

The wars weren't lost on the battlefield ... they were lost in the public opinion column's back home. They got sick of watching their kids getting killed on the TV news.


So I guess from that statement, you'll be siding with Britain, Undefeated since 1781.

If your decisions are based on guesswork ... good luck with your covid restrictions fight ...


Yes, but what has sustained the quote

Gross (and continued) stupidity.


But meanings can change and this is a perfect example of where something has changed from what it originally was intended - to it's current usage.

The only change is the degree of stupidity and ignorance.


And wouldn't you know it, I did. In the same post....

Bit of an 'Oof!' for you...

If your complaint is loss of your liberties ... go right ahead and kill yourself. It will be appreciated.


I mean, we've got 4? 5? Major variants, millions upon millions of cases - I think the data at this point is pretty clear. Also an interesting note is that Viral mutations generally become weaker and not stronger.

Omicron is supposed to be the tough one to beat ... but I've been known to be wrong.

However ... until the covid passes are not required and the virus's are officially beaten ... life as (normal ??) will continue.


Which threats?

And in what order?

Covid seems to be one that concerns a few nowadays ... but if you don't see it as such ... that is entirely your choice.


When we wake up in the morning there are a million and 1 different threats to us. If we spend all our time taking every threat seriously, that's a neurological disorder.

If the threat has already killed people ... it might pay to consider it seriously.


Specifically in relation to Covid, I think that the Authoritarian measures, the System that provides a full track and trace of where people go and the creation of a 2-tier society are dangerous precedents that will have negative consequences. Some immediately know, others likely to reveal themselves over time.

Do you think anybody cares which Gay bars you frequent .. ??

Berries
27th January 2022, 18:19
Aren't multi quotes fun to read.

husaberg
27th January 2022, 19:34
Aren't multi quotes fun to read.
Some of their best work ever.
350471

R650R
29th January 2022, 16:36
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10449587/American-truckers-join-Canadas-Freedom-Convoy-protesting-vax-mandate-rigs-stretch-45-MILES.html

Kendog
29th January 2022, 17:43
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10449587/American-truckers-join-Canadas-Freedom-Convoy-protesting-vax-mandate-rigs-stretch-45-MILES.html
Yeah, they should get vaccinated.
Doesn’t look great in Canada right now.

husaberg
30th January 2022, 14:51
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-930c61af5f8a68d5ead67f3df84e48a8

pritch
30th January 2022, 15:49
Normal people get vaccinated. Abnormal people drink their own piss, but some , it seems, seek refinements.

FJRider
30th January 2022, 16:05
Closer to home ...

https://covid19.govt.nz/news-and-data/covid-19-data-and-statistics/


94% Eligible population 12+ with 2 doses.

3,960,959 Second doses administered.

1,287,972 Booster doses administered.

4,982,395 My Vaccine Passes downloaded total.



2,747,941 Poster scans in the last 24 hours.



NZ COVID Tracer app Last updated 30 January 2022 at 1:00 pm.

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 09:04
https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/partner_surveys/jan_2022/covid_19_democratic_voters_support_harsh_measures_ against_unvaccinated


Forty-five percent (45%) of Democrats would favor governments requiring citizens to temporarily live in designated facilities or locations if they refuse to get a COVID-19 vaccine.

It's just Wearing a Mask / It's just wearing a Star
It's just a Vaccine Pass / It's just an Ancestry Pass
It's just a Temporary living facility / It's just a Temporary Camp



It's just a Shower.

Kendog
4th February 2022, 11:45
That’s your worst and most disrespectful post yet TDL

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 12:26
That’s your worst and most disrespectful post yet TDL

Isn't it interesting that you raise faux indignation about what I've said...

Instead of the part where a significant portion of a certain political wing supports putting the unvaccinated into Concentration Camps.

There's nothing disrespectful in what I've said - I'm pointing to patterns in behavior when one group perceives another group to be an existential threat to them and I'm pointing to the ultimate conclusion.

It's not like there aren't other 'Two-tier' societies that haven't ended up in the same destination.

Unvaxxed/Jew/Kulak/Uyghur/Refusenike/Enemy of the Revolution. The list goes on.

FJRider
4th February 2022, 15:17
It's just Wearing a Mask / It's just wearing a Star

Wearing a mask might save a life ... yours.

Wearing the star was a death sentence.

Can you not tell the difference .. ??? :scratch:


It's just a Vaccine Pass / It's just an Ancestry Pass

My ancestry played NO part in my getting a covid passport. NOR did ANY other persons ancestry play a part in getting theirs ... :no:

You must be stupid to believe there could be a comparison ... as you claim ... :killingme


It's just a Temporary living facility / It's just a Temporary Camp

How many have died in MIQ so far ... ??? ANY ... ???


t's just a Shower.

If you actually believe there is a comparison between the Nazi death camp showers and MIQ ... you are one sad sicko ... :weird:

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 15:26
Wearing a mask might save a life ... yours.

Wearing the star was a death sentence.

Can you not tell the difference .. ??? :scratch:



My ancestry played NO part in my getting a covid passport. NOR did ANY other persons ancestry play a part in getting theirs ... :no:

You must be stupid to believe there could be a comparison ... as you claim ... :killingme



How many have died in MIQ so far ... ??? ANY ... ???



If you actually believe there is a comparison between the Nazi death camp showers and MIQ ... you are one sad sicko ... :weird:

I said nothing about MIQ.

Try again.

FJRider
4th February 2022, 15:35
Isn't it interesting that you raise faux indignation about what I've said...

Perhaps ... it's not False indignation.


Instead of the part where a significant portion of a certain political wing supports putting the unvaccinated into Concentration Camps.

Do you think they ALL might disappear if they get sent to a camp after getting the tattoo on their arm ... ??? or will the covid kill them all off first.. ??


There's nothing disrespectful in what I've said - I'm pointing to patterns in behavior when one group perceives another group to be an existential threat to them and I'm pointing to the ultimate conclusion.

The camps could be a good idea for the un-vaccinated then ... at least they're keeping US safe if they stay in the camps.

They may even have showers ... but I doubt they know how to use them.


It's not like there aren't other 'Two-tier' societies that haven't ended up in the same destination.

The "Two tiers" are there by personal choice of the people concerned.


Unvaxxed/Jew/Kulak/Uyghur/Refusenike/Enemy of the Revolution. The list goes on.


Looks like a sick minds dribble. Sicker than anything I thought you were capable of posting.

nerrrd
4th February 2022, 15:35
That’s your worst and most disrespectful post yet TDL

Couldn’t agree more. Don’t know what planet he’s living on, but I’m glad it’s not this one.

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 15:44
Couldn’t agree more. Don’t know what planet he’s living on, but I’m glad it’s not this one.

The one where nearly 50% of a Political Party are fine with putting people in Concentration Camps.

Strange how no one has any outrage on that part...

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 15:52
The camps could be a good idea for the un-vaccinated then ... at least they're keeping US safe if they stay in the camps.

Indeed, Wouldn't want the Jews infecting the Aryan Race....

And do you not think that the Vaccine will protect you?


The "Two tiers" are there by personal choice of the people concerned.

Bullshit. Because there's an element of Coercion. Remove the Coercion and there's no two tiers.


Looks like a sick minds dribble. Sicker than anything I thought you were capable of posting.

And what say you about people being okay with putting the Unvaxxed in Concentration Camps?

It's not like I'm conjecturing on this part or grasping at straws, it's from a reputable polling company. So spare me the righteous outrage at why I type and direct it at the fact that the current Covid Hysteria has a particular group of people in favour of Concentration Camps.

pritch
4th February 2022, 16:08
The one where nearly 50% of a Political Party are fine with putting people in Concentration Camps.

Strange how no one has any outrage on that part...

That previous post wasn't just in bad taste, it was stupid.

Jewish people have been outgaged at people equating a vaccination to a yellow star. If members of their family had died in the camps they have reason.

I see posts from the Auschwitz Memorial on social media most days, They give a brief biography of someone who died in the camps: a child, a workman, an accountant. These people came from France, from Holland, Germany or Poland. They came from all over Europe.

On The View somebody attributed the holocaust to racism. Whoopi Goldberg said that it wasn't racism. Cue outrage. She was forced to apologise and banned from the show for two weeks. Apparently she is currently considering her options.

As it happens I share Goldberg's confusion. Jewish people in America are fixated on the six million figure. The actual number of victims of the holocaust is nearer twelve million. The Nazis didn't much like Slavs, Russians, Gypsies, or sundry other groups of people either. You may have noticed that all of the categories of victims mentioned above are Europeans. Literally.

If the perpetrators and the victims are all the same race, how can it be racism? I've seen some people attempt to answer this, but they were far from convincing and none could see past the six million.

R650R
4th February 2022, 16:12
That’s your worst and most disrespectful post yet TDL

Nothing compared to Whoopsi “the holocaust wasn’t about race “Goldberg 😂😂😂😂


https://youtu.be/XJI_rDPxmmc

FJRider
4th February 2022, 16:13
Indeed, Wouldn't want the Jews infecting the Aryan Race....

At that period in history ... the Jews never had Covid.


And do you not think that the Vaccine will protect you?

It might (at best) keep most of the un-vaccinated arseholes out of my way. I live in the hope it does ... but they do make me laugh when they get refused service.


Bullshit. Because there's an element of Coercion. Remove the Coercion and there's no two tiers.

I have not been "Coerced" into doing anything I didn't feel the need to do. You have the entitlement to have your own opinions ... regardless of how sick they are.



And what say you about people being okay with putting the Unvaxxed in Concentration Camps?

Look on the bright side ... It might give them ALL a chance to die for their cause ... <_<

There's hope they might ... well I'm hoping.


It's not like I'm conjecturing on this part or grasping at straws, it's from a reputable polling company. So spare me the righteous outrage at why I type and direct it at the fact that the current Covid Hysteria has a particular group of people in favour of Concentration Camps.

I doubt if many (any7) of the sites you visit could be considered reputable. Just be careful the straw you grasp at ... isn't the short one.

Those vaccinated aren't having any issues. Those UN vaccinated ... ARE. Notice the subtle difference .. ??

R650R
4th February 2022, 16:25
If the perpetrators and the victims are all the same race, how can it be racism? I've seen some people attempt to answer this, but they were far from convincing and none could see past the six million.

You need to visit your local synagogue and read up the Talmud.... They indeed regard themselves a seperate race and ALL other people regardless of skin colour are Goyim (an inferior subspecies)
Ever notice how out of all the religions out there they NEVER come door knocking inviting you to discover Jesus???
Evidently Jews themselves thought it was racism as their media outlets were all quick to savage Whoopsie....

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 16:27
That previous post wasn't just in bad taste, it was stupid.

Same question to you:

What's your thoughts on ~50% of the Democrats being in favour of Concentration Camps?

Then you can get back to shooting the messenger.


On The View somebody attributed the holocaust to racism. Whoopi Goldberg said that it wasn't racism. Cue outrage. She was forced to apologise and banned from the show for two weeks. Apparently she is currently considering her options.

I've seen the Whoopi segment. Firstly it's a very clear indication of the American conception of Race (skin colour) vs the European conception of Race. It's also a very clear indication of the poison of Critical Race Theory (afterall, White people can't be racist to White people is a conclusion from Critical Race Theory).

That said, Whoopi did make a point that I happened to agree with - she wants the focus of the Holocaust to be less about it being a Racial issue but more about Mans inhumanity to Man. A sentiment I agree with. Certainly she was Clumsy (and a touch ignorant and ideologically deceived) but then I don't call for anyone to be taken off air.

R650R
4th February 2022, 16:27
https://joannenova.com.au/2022/02/major-win-uk-govt-backs-down-on-mandatory-jabs-for-healthworker-jabs/

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 16:30
At that period in history ... the Jews never had Covid.
It might (at best) keep most of the un-vaccinated arseholes out of my way. I live in the hope it does ... but they do make me laugh when they get refused service.

And I'm sure they'll laugh when something happens that means you get refused service.


I doubt if many (any7) of the sites you visit could be considered reputable.

Rasmussen polls are very much a mainstream polling organisation. Keep trying to divert all you want - what do you say about ~50% of the Democrats being okay with Concentration camps? Where is your outrage at that?


Just be careful the straw you grasp at ... isn't the short one.

Those vaccinated aren't having any issues. Those UN vaccinated ... ARE. Notice the subtle difference .. ??

"The Aryans aren't having any issues, only the Untermensch Jews"

FJRider
4th February 2022, 17:54
And I'm sure they'll laugh when something happens that means you get refused service.

You mean not get vaccinated ... ?? Oh wait ... I DID get vaccinated. I've got the Covid Passport to prove it.

What other reason would/could there be that would cause me to be refused service .. ???

Every trip out .... more laughs ... :lol:


Rasmussen polls are very much a mainstream polling organisation. Keep trying to divert all you want - what do you say about ~50% of the Democrats being okay with Concentration camps? Where is your outrage at that?

Never heard of it. Never missed it. Wont visit it.

And I don't recall any NZ Democrat party. A few Democratic "one thing or another parties" ... ALL didn't last long in Parliament ... if they even got a seat. Yet you talk like they have/had valid claims or ideas.


"The Aryans aren't having any issues, only the Untermensch Jews"

You're right ... They haven't had any issues for about 65 years now. Those that were involved at the time (and still alive) dont make the news nowadays.

pritch
4th February 2022, 18:09
Nothing compared to Whoopsi “the holocaust wasn’t about race “Goldberg 😂😂😂😂


Already discussed.

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 18:48
You mean not get vaccinated ... ?? Oh wait ... I DID get vaccinated. I've got the Covid Passport to prove it.

What other reason would/could there be that would cause me to be refused service .. ???

Every trip out .... more laughs ... :lol:

Oh I dunno, changing the rules? I mean it's not like there isn't *quite* a bit of recent instances of the Government moving the Goal Posts. I seem to remember 90% being the Vaccination rate for 'things to go back to normal'...

They could revoke your Vaccine pass tomorrow for whatever reason they feel like and then you'd be in the same group that you currently laugh at...

Now THAT would be funny.


Never heard of it. Never missed it. Wont visit it.

You probably have (indirectly) heard of it. Mainly when referencing any American news. You don't have to visit it if you don't want. The point remains, however, that it's not some fringe website. 80% accuracy in nearly 700+ polls, since 2003.

But that sidestep still does not work: Concentration Camps for Unvaccinated, Good or Bad? This should be a pretty easy question to answer...


And I don't recall any NZ Democrat party. A few Democratic "one thing or another parties" ... ALL didn't last long in Parliament ... if they even got a seat. Yet you talk like they have/had valid claims or ideas.

Here's a hint: The US Democrat Party and NZ's Labour party share the same ideology. Certain ideas (like when being Maori exempted you from Traffic Fines) have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US.

Madness
4th February 2022, 19:43
It's just Wearing a Mask / It's just wearing a Star
It's just a Vaccine Pass / It's just an Ancestry Pass
It's just a Temporary living facility / It's just a Temporary Camp



It's just a Shower.

Look, TDL is still a raging fuckwit! Who would have guessed that cocksucker would be a disease enthusiast?

As you were.

TheDemonLord
4th February 2022, 19:56
Look, TDL is still a raging fuckwit! Who would have guessed that cocksucker would be a disease enthusiast?

As you were.

Not a disease enthusiast, a Freedom enthusiast. Slight difference.

FJRider
4th February 2022, 20:52
Oh I dunno ...

That's the statement you should use more often. It's the only option you have say ... and be CORRECT.


They could revoke your Vaccine pass tomorrow for whatever reason they feel like and then you'd be in the same group that you currently laugh at...

I've had ALL the jabs I'm entitled to have ... including the booster shot. And I'm quite happy to get any other ones ... as and when I'm required to ... when they are available to me ... :yes:

I have no fear (at all) of of what you suggest ... :no:

Guess which group is currently the butt of all the jokes ... and I'll give you a clue even. It's not the group I'm in ... :shifty:

Figured it out yet ... ?? :laugh:



Now THAT would be funny.

It would be a safe bet to say ... I'll be the one laughing ... for some time yet ... :killingme




You probably have (indirectly) heard of it. Mainly when referencing any American news.

Never heard of it. I have no interest in yank news. Even news from Dorkland is bad enough. How many new cases there today ??? :rolleyes:




But that sidestep still does not work: Concentration Camps for Unvaccinated, Good or Bad? This should be a pretty easy question to answer...

A bloody GOOD idea. As long as they do their own cooking and cleaning ... I don't want to make life easy for them.

Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.



... Certain ideas have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US.

Get back to me and say "I told you so" ... if that ever happens.

But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ (and I'm not expecting your message any time soon) ... you'll still be looking like the village idiot. But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems to be full of them.



Have a nice day .. :yes:

mashman
5th February 2022, 07:23
Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.

Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Covid is 99.x% survivable. Yet No, throw those very carefully thought out rules out of the window. I can't ride the bus. I can't go to a movie. I can't even sit in a restaurant. You are treating a section of society worse than those who called people "Niggers" up til the, well, primarily 60's I guess... coz at least they had a section they were allowed to sit in. The fear is beyond irrational given the evidence of the last 2 years, and it proves what Goering states without question.

For the record, I know of 1 dead within 48 hours after vaccination and 1 with pericarditis. I know of a fair few who have had covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, none of whom are dead or suffering long term effects. Yet experimental vaccination get to create a 4th world population in under 2 years. Goering was right about you guys. Those who didn't get vaccinated obeyed the law, and I Am proud of them for that ;).

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 08:00
I've had ALL the jabs I'm entitled to have ... including the booster shot. And I'm quite happy to get any other ones ... as and when I'm required to ... when they are available to me ... :yes:

I have no fear (at all) of of what you suggest ... :no:

Guess which group is currently the butt of all the jokes ... and I'll give you a clue even. It's not the group I'm in ... :shifty:

Figured it out yet ... ?? :laugh:

Sure, but guess what? Your vaccine pass could be revoked by the Government, in spite of what Vaccinations you have or have not had.



A bloody GOOD idea. As long as they do their own cooking and cleaning ... I don't want to make life easy for them.

And this is precisely the reason why I posted it.

If I replace the word Unvaccinated with the word Jew and posted what YOU have written on any neo-nazi website, it would be met with rapturous applause.

YOU might want to think about that.


Look up the actual existing rules ... regarding National outbreaks of diseases and/or viruses ... that can kill people. The rules currently being applied ... are the soft version. Things can get tougher ... and will ... if those (or more) refuse to follow the rules. OR ... an even more potent version of covid shows up.

I have. And were Covid may times more deadly and affected the young, some of the rules *might* (and I must stress, this is a very tenuous 'might') have a pragmatic justification that overrides the Moral concern about breaching Natural Rights.


Get back to me and say "I told you so" ... if that ever happens.

See above - you agree with putting people in Concentration Camps who you think pose a threat to you.

I told you so, by your own very words.


But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ (and I'm not expecting your message any time soon) ... you'll still be looking like the village idiot. But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems to be full of them.

Have a nice day .. :yes:

Again, I don't live in Auckland, so this repeat 'gotcha' makes you look rather silly.

Now to be clear, I don't think that sort of Legislation will happen, because like most liberal Democracies the civil push-back seems to start when the Government starts issuing mandates. (Canada, USA, England etc.)

The fact that otherwise rational and sane people are in support of Concentration camps for a group they despise, however, is still of a massive Concern.

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 08:01
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week.

And for the first time in a great long while, Myself and Mashman are in total Agreement.

"I was only following the rules" is no defence against injustice (or at least, it used to be)

husaberg
5th February 2022, 10:24
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

Covid is 99.x% survivable. Yet No, throw those very carefully thought out rules out of the window. I can't ride the bus. I can't go to a movie. I can't even sit in a restaurant. You are treating a section of society worse than those who called people "Niggers" up til the, well, primarily 60's I guess... coz at least they had a section they were allowed to sit in. The fear is beyond irrational given the evidence of the last 2 years, and it proves what Goering states without question.

For the record, I know of 1 dead within 48 hours after vaccination and 1 with pericarditis. I know of a fair few who have had covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, none of whom are dead or suffering long term effects. Yet experimental vaccination get to create a 4th world population in under 2 years. Goering was right about you guys. Those who didn't get vaccinated obeyed the law, and I Am proud of them for that ;).

You can do all those things the choice is if you wish to comply with the rules for these venues.
To compare it to the treatment of the Jews, the Gypsies, the slavs, the disfigured, the handicapped, gay and the others that Hilters regime chose to exterminate.
places you and any others that also do in the category of raging idiots and totally reprehensible despicable scum.

Kickaha
5th February 2022, 12:04
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week.


And for the first time in a great long while, Myself and Mashman are in total Agreement.

)

The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 13:37
The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

A very interesting Document.

Particularly the sections about Informed Consent and how it cannot be made under Duress.

I dunno about what you consider Duress, but threat of loosing your Job seems like Duress to me...

husaberg
5th February 2022, 14:17
Smallpox was a common killer in nineteenth century Britain. It spread rapidly and killed around 30% of those who contracted it and left many survivors blinded or scarred. In 1850s, the government passed a series of laws that made vaccination against smallpox compulsory.


1840 marked the first in a series of laws regarding vaccination in Britain. After the scientific community built a better understanding of how infectious disease spread, the British government outlawed the practice of variolation with the first Vaccination Act of 1840. The Act of 1840 also provided free vaccinations for the poor through the new Poor Law Unions. The government ramped up its focus on improving vaccination rates and subsequently passed the Vaccination Act of 1853. The Act made it compulsory for all infants under three months old to be vaccinated. Local registrars of births, marriages and deaths gave out vaccination certificates to parents of newborns which had to be returned signed by a doctor. Negligent parents could be fined or imprisoned. In 1867, the government increased its efforts and made it compulsory for all children under the age of 14 to be vaccinated against smallpox. However, this was not the case for many children.

Certainly the outcry from anti-vaccination protesters had an impact on British vaccine policy. In 1885, a massive anti-vaccination protest in Leicester attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 people. In response, a Royal Commission was formed to understand attitudes on all sides regarding vaccination. The commission heard from opponents and supporters of vaccination for seven years to advise the British government on how to move forward. Their report in 1896 stated that vaccination was effective in protecting against smallpox. It also recommended that the government abolish the penalties for not vaccinating. In 1898, a new Vaccination Act removed these penalties and introduced a new clause known as the “conscientious objector” clause that allowed parents who did not believe vaccines were safe or effective to obtain a certificate exempting their children from vaccination

mashman
5th February 2022, 15:15
The Nuremburg code is not law and has no legal standing in NZ or most other countries and was superseded by Declaration of Helsinki, decades ago

Found in the Declaration of Helsinki: "No national or international ethical, legal or regulatory requirement should reduce or eliminate any of the protections for research subjects set forth in this Declaration".

Aye, they aren't laws, they are ethical standards/codes designed to transcend law and sovereignty for many well thought out reasons. Breaching those standards/codes usually results in legal action being applied, using the breaches of the standards/codes as the foundation for any legal argument. I guess one can pick and choose eh.

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 15:38
Certainly the outcry from anti-vaccination protesters had an impact on British vaccine policy. In 1885, a massive anti-vaccination protest in Leicester attracted a crowd of nearly 100,000 people. In response, a Royal Commission was formed to understand attitudes on all sides regarding vaccination. The commission heard from opponents and supporters of vaccination for seven years to advise the British government on how to move forward. Their report in 1896 stated that vaccination was effective in protecting against smallpox. It also recommended that the government abolish the penalties for not vaccinating. In 1898, a new Vaccination Act removed these penalties and introduced a new clause known as the “conscientious objector” clause that allowed parents who did not believe vaccines were safe or effective to obtain a certificate exempting their children from vaccination

So, by the info posted by Husa, going back over 100 years. The British public's position on Vaccination has been:

- Make the Vaccine available.
- But don't you dare mandate it.

Now to all the naysayers in my Fan Club, Thanks to Husa's excellent investigative work, you can see that my principled opposition isn't some fringe lunacy. It is, in fact, a very VERY long established tradition centred around the British conception of Bodily autonomy, rights and freedoms.

I expect that the apologies won't be forthcoming, but then when you opposition in a debate essentially prove your point for you, none is really required.

\Smug mode.

FJRider
5th February 2022, 16:43
Sure, but guess what? Your vaccine pass could be revoked by the Government, in spite of what Vaccinations you have or have not had.

Why ... ?? I've had ALL the vaccinations currently required and available to me ... :doh:


And this is precisely the reason why I posted it.

I'm glad we agree on that then ... :yes:


If I replace the word Unvaccinated with the word Jew and posted what YOU have written on any neo-nazi website, it would be met with rapturous applause.

AND ... If I replaced the words DemonLord in each and every reply to your posts ... with COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKWIT ... in these Kiwibiker forums ... it would be met with rapturous applause. Your point is .. ???


YOU might want to think about that.

I have thought about doing the above ... but you have no sense of humour ... and would complain like a spoilt two year old to the site Moderators ... about how offended you are ... :killingme

A sense of reality ... obviously isn't your strong point ... :blank:


I have. And were Covid may times more deadly and affected the young, some of the rules *might* (and I must stress, this is a very tenuous 'might') have a pragmatic justification that overrides the Moral concern about breaching Natural Rights.

Did you read the actual requirements for the Government to introduce such a policy ... in the interests of Nationwide health and Public safety. When people start dying ... they CAN START THE POLICY. Did you read the minimum number of deaths ... that would validate the instigation of the policy .. ?? ;)


See above - you agree with putting people in Concentration Camps who you think pose a threat to you.

They pose more of a threat to THEMSELVES ... than me ... :yes:

I'm vaccinated ... remember ... ;)


I told you so, by your own very words.

It was in regard to your post of
Certain ideas have a direct ideological lineage to what is cooked up in the US. ... when did that happen in regard to "My very words" .. ??? :scratch:


Again, I don't live in Auckland, so this repeat 'gotcha' makes you look rather silly.

If you learn to read ... with a basic understanding of the English language .. you might see I posted " But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems full of them". Point out where I said YOU live in Auckland .. ??? ;)


Now to be clear, I don't think that sort of Legislation will happen, because like most liberal Democracies the civil push-back seems to start when the Government starts issuing mandates. (Canada, USA, England etc.)

But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ ... you cannot tell me ... "I Told You So" ... as per my actual quote ... which you actually didn't quote properly ... or accurately. Is English your second language .. ??? (I think I might have asked you that before)


The fact that otherwise rational and sane people are in support of Concentration camps for a group they despise, however, is still of a massive Concern.

Don't think "Concentration Camps" ... that is a bit harsh. Think instead ... maybe ... HEALTH camps. You'll feel much better about the idea.

It would be in the interest of ALL their health needs after all ... ;)

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 17:03
Why ... ?? I've had ALL the vaccinations currently required and available to me ... :doh:

Until they change the rules or simply decide to revoke your status as to what is considered Vaccinated. They tried in the UK, but after Bojo got caught partying it up, they (wisely) decided to not pursue it.


AND ... If I replaced the words DemonLord in each and every reply to your posts ... with COMPLETE AND TOTAL FUCKWIT ... in these Kiwibiker forums ... it would be met with rapturous applause. Your point is .. ???

I'd rather be called a Fuckwit than be advocating for Concentation Camps and other Fascist ideas...


I have thought about doing the above ... but you have no sense of humour ... and would complain like a spoilt two year old to the site Moderators ... about how offended you are ... :killingme

A sense of reality ... obviously isn't your strong point ... :blank:

Okay. Can find any moderator on this site that has EVER received any report from me about being 'Offended'.

The closest you will come to was many years ago when Katman was rep-spamming me with just abuse. But that's not Offended, that's just bad Netiquette (and a breach of the site rules).

See, the problem you have here is I have a long history of not whining to the Mods and very vociferously sticking up for people I am disagreeing with. I happen to be very much a Free Speech absolutist (see Natural Rights and all that).


Did you read the actual requirements for the Government to introduce such a policy ... in the interests of Nationwide health and Public safety. When people start dying ... they CAN START THE POLICY. Did you read the minimum number of deaths ... that would validate the instigation of the policy .. ?? ;)

How'd that work out in Canada?

Honk Honk.


They pose more of a threat to THEMSELVES ... than me ... :yes:

I'm vaccinated ... remember ... ;)

So why do you need them to go into Camps or be excluded from Cafes? If they drop dead, what business is it of yours? You're vaccinated, remember?


It was in regard to your post of ... when did that happen in regard to "My very words" .. ??? :scratch:

Ah yes, because Public Policy is well known to spontaneously spring into existence (okay, with this Government, you could be forgiven for thinking that)...

In actual fact it starts with people having ideas. Like 50% of a group being in favor of Concentration Camps. Add to that, you (by your words) are in favor of them


If you learn to read ... with a basic understanding of the English language .. you might see I posted " But you're not alone ... Dorkland seems full of them". Point out where I said YOU live in Auckland .. ??? ;)

There's a standard convention of the English language that references to an individual and then to a group (with a shared characteristic) is implying membership of that Group.

See also 'Libel by implication'



But until that sort of legislation is introduced in NZ ... you cannot tell me ... "I Told You So" ... as per my actual quote ... which you actually didn't quote properly ... or accurately. Is English your second language .. ??? (I think I might have asked you that before)

That you think it's okay is all the 'I told you so' I need.

Unless of course you wish to retract that and say it's actually a really bad idea because they don't pose a threat to you...


Don't think "Concentration Camps" ... that is a bit harsh. Think instead ... maybe ... HEALTH camps. You'll feel much better about the idea.

It would be in the interest of ALL their health needs after all ... ;)

You can call it a 5 star all expenses paid resort. Still won't change it into something that isn't reprehensible.

Kickaha
5th February 2022, 17:11
Found in the Declaration of Helsinki: "No national or international ethical, legal or regulatory requirement should reduce or eliminate any of the protections for research subjects set forth in this Declaration".


Yes, "research subjects" think about that for a minute and see if you can work it out

mashman
5th February 2022, 18:03
Yes, "research subjects" think about that for a minute and see if you can work it out

What does it matter what I work out. I'll wait for the law to make its determination and then society to enforce their will. As I said before "I guess one can pick and choose eh.".

FJRider
5th February 2022, 18:28
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

Initially .. and continue to be invoked .. the "National Rules" were instigated to ensure (as best they could) the safety of good health for as many of the New Zealand population as could be achieved.

After the Unemployment Benefit Beneficiaries ... the second biggest group of Beneficiaries is those on a Sickness Benefit. The next biggest group is the Solo Parent Benefit. These three groups of people have the most to lose in regard to their own health ... and the lives they are responsible for. The very groups ... that if Covid got amongst on any scale ... the existing death toll might be quite a bit higher.

The vaccines were provided FREE to ALL NZ citizens. It is NOT compulsory. Those that choose not to be vaccinated ... knew that there were to be downsides to that choice of (in)action. The vaccinated people can apparently spread the virus ... but how many vaccinated people have been infected by it ... or died from it .. ??

Vaccine passes are not required in any essential service. All supply (food, drink, hardware, medical .. etc) do not require a covid pass.

But I can't see why the angst is for some .. to be against getting the jabs. Freedom of choice indeed ... but freely taken choices that have downsides.

I can't believe this situation (Covid Pass restrictions) will be a permanent part of daily life in NZ (or anywhere else). As for how long it will go on for ... only time will tell. It will be forever part of New Zealand History for sure. The survivors will tell the stories about it ... and future generations might learn from the era. Maybe ... what will be learned ... is yet to be learned.


"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger." - Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials

42 dead from Covid so far (as I recall) compare that to the "Free" ares in other countries. Those 42 dead probably never thought Covid would cause their death. Few (if any) un-vaccinated persons will actually believe they could/will die also ... or could cause others (they don't know) to be infected ... and possibly die.


Covid is 99.x% survivable. Yet No, throw those very carefully thought out rules out of the window. I can't ride the bus. I can't go to a movie. I can't even sit in a restaurant. You are treating a section of society worse than those who called people "Niggers" up til the, well, primarily 60's I guess... coz at least they had a section they were allowed to sit in. The fear is beyond irrational given the evidence of the last 2 years, and it proves what Goering states without question.

That "Section of society" were told what would happen if they weren't vaccinated. ... And it happened.

And I've been called a "Honky" a few times ... supposedly as an attempt as an insult. To get a reaction ... and maybe an excuse for a fight.

Do you really need to go down that road .. ??? What do you gain .. ??? Knee-jerk reaction from our PM ... of tougher rules ... possibly. And those that think the existing rules are tough ... watch this space. If Covid plays tougher ... so will the rules.

As I understand ... all you need to have to get on a bus is a mask and money for the fare. Seating arrangement is your choice (still). No Covid passport needed.


For the record, I know of 1 dead within 48 hours after vaccination and 1 with pericarditis. I know of a fair few who have had covid, both vaccinated and unvaccinated, none of whom are dead or suffering long term effects. Yet experimental vaccination get to create a 4th world population in under 2 years. Goering was right about you guys. Those who didn't get vaccinated obeyed the law, and I Am proud of them for that ;).

As I understand ... most of the covid related deaths were people with underlying conditions ... not simply THE cause of their death. So far. That is not necessarily how deaths related with Covid ... will always be in the future.

Some (still alive) may (or may not) know the seriousness of their condition(s) in relation to how being infected/affected by Covid will be ... for them. Or that their choices might affect/infect ... OTHERS.


Freedom to choose can have it's price.

Vaccinations and/or good health can help.



Obscure comparisons with historical events cant. You wont change the minds of any ... by insulting them.

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 18:39
https://sites.krieger.jhu.edu/iae/files/2022/01/A-Literature-Review-and-Meta-Analysis-of-the-Effects-of-Lockdowns-on-COVID-19-Mortality.pdf

So, to be fair, this is only a Meta-Analysis (which looks at other studies and then forms conclusions based on the studies it looks at) - so we should be skeptical, the conclusion however is most interesting:


Conclusions
Overall, our meta-analysis fails to confirm that lockdowns have had a large, significant effect on
mortality rates. Studies examining the relationship between lockdown strictness (based on the
OxCGRT stringency index) find that the average lockdown in Europe and the United States only
reduced COVID-19 mortality by 0.2% compared to a COVID-19 policy based solely on
recommendations. Shelter-in-place orders (SIPOs) were also ineffective. They only reduced
COVID-19 mortality by 2.9%.

Studies looking at specific NPIs (lockdown vs. no lockdown, facemasks, closing non-essential
businesses, border closures, school closures, and limiting gatherings) also find no broad-based
evidence of noticeable effects on COVID-19 mortality. However, closing non-essential
businesses seems to have had some effect (reducing COVID-19 mortality by 10.6%), which is
likely to be related to the closure of bars. Also, masks may reduce COVID-19 mortality, but
there is only one study that examines universal mask mandates. The effect of border closures,
school closures and limiting gatherings on COVID-19 mortality yields precision-weighted
estimates of -0.1%, -4.4%, and 1.6%, respectively. Lockdowns (compared to no lockdowns) also
do not reduce COVID-19 mortality.

So I want to pose this as a question - I've been quite consistent on my Anti-Lockdown stance, I want everyone to imagine if instead of a countrywide Lockdown, they only closed the Bars.

To be fair, I'd still be opposed to that, but the science does seem that closing Bars had the biggest impact on Mortality reduction.

FJRider
5th February 2022, 19:09
Until they change the rules ...

Wait and see shall we ... ?? Give me a call a say "I Told you so" if it does.


Okay. Can find any moderator on this site that has EVER received any report from me about baaeing 'Offended'.

What's baaeing offended .. ???

Have they received any from you for abuse of a member .. ??


The closest you will come to was many years ago when Katman was rep-spamming me with just abuse. But that's not Offended, that's just bad Netiquette (and a breach of the site rules).

Just like you do with me you mean .. ??


See, the problem you have here is I have a long history of not whining to the Mods and very vociferously sticking up for people I am disagreeing with. I happen to be very much a Free Speech absolutist (see Natural Rights and all that).



I heard differently.

Read the rules then. See for yourself.


So why do you need them to go into Camps or be excluded from Cafes? If they drop dead, what business is it of yours? You're vaccinated, remember?

Free food ... a roof over their heads ... all the un-vaccinated in one (or two) place(s) ... All agreeing with each other ... free medical care for those that get infected by another un-vaccinated ... and the vaccinated don't have to wait until those refused service stop arguing and leave before we get served.

What about that ... is not to be liked .. ??


Ah yes, because Public Policy is well known to spontaneously spring into existence (okay, with this Government, you could be forgiven for thinking that)...

In actual fact it starts with people having ideas. Like 50% of a group being in favor of Concentration Camps. Add to that, you (by your words) are in favor of them

As I said ... Concentration camps might be a bit harsh. But you continuing to use the term ... might be called exaggeration ... a policy you often use.


There's a standard convention of the English language that references to an individual and then to a group (with a shared characteristic) is implying membership of that Group.

See also 'Libel by implication'

SUE ... or report me to the Moderators.


That you think it's okay is all the 'I told you so' I need.

Easily satisfied.


Unless of course you wish to retract that and say it's actually a really bad idea because they don't pose a threat to you...

Nah ...


You can call it a 5 star all expenses paid resort. Still won't change it into something that isn't reprehensible.

At best ... two (small) stars ... did I mention free food ... ??

One in Waiouru and one in Tekapo. Central locations for the convenience of those in either Islands.

Might work.

mashman
5th February 2022, 19:34
Obscure comparisons with historical events cant. You wont change the minds of any ... by insulting them.

It was neither obscure nor insulting. Your choice how to read things. My freedoms were taken. The non-vaccinated are being vilified for a lack of patriotism (the posters on here alone are evidence enough). Whether the jab worked or not, most of you dipshits have turned it into a loyalty contest, proving Goering absolutely bang on the money.

TheDemonLord
5th February 2022, 19:37
What's baaeing offended .. ???

Have they received any from you for abuse of a member .. ??
Just like you do with me you mean .. ??
Read the rules then. See for yourself.

Okay FJRider - I said to Pritch in another thread that I can take any amount of critique (spicy or otherwise) on any position that I hold, but I get rather irritated about lies about my personal Character.

So if you think I've been talking with ANY mod about any Post you've ever made - By all means, put up the Evidence. If not, then I expect a retraction.

The only time I've ever complained to a Mod about another Members behavior was all the way back in July 2016 and that was Katman who (at the time) was Rep-Bombing me (breach of the site rules), after the Mod had a word, he went back to just giving me the occasional Red rep when he thought I was being an idiot.

If you have the Evidence, then by all means - Present it. If not I expect a retraction.



Free food ... a roof over their heads ... all the un-vaccinated in one (or two) place(s) ... All agreeing with each other ... free medical care for those that get infected by another un-vaccinated ... and the vaccinated don't have to wait until those refused service stop arguing and leave before we get served.

What about that ... is not to be liked .. ??

Let's ask the Jews.
Or the Uyghurs.
Or the Zeks.
Or the Chams.

The answer is Freedom.


As I said ... Concentration camps might be a bit harsh. But you continuing to use the term ... might be called exaggeration ... a policy you often use.

Well, let's look at the definition, shall we?


concentration camp, internment centre for political prisoners and members of national or minority groups who are confined for reasons of state security

Minority group - Check.
Reasons of 'State Security' (read 'National Health') - Check.

The boot fits.


SUE ... or report me to the Moderators.

I don't report people to Mods - as above, if you've got some Evidence - Post it up, if not - issue a retraction.


Nah ...

Just proving the point still. I mean I'll hand it to you, it's one hell of a commitment to support Concentration Camps in order to be on the opposite side of a Debate from me - so Bravo.



At best ... two (small) stars ... did I mention free food ... ??

One in Waiouru and one in Tekapo. Central locations for the convenience of those in either Islands.

Might work.

If attendance is completely voluntary, then fine.

Somehow, I don't suspect it would be.

R650R
5th February 2022, 19:49
Oh no no no, no you don’t, no no no. That’s very naughty Countdown revealing the truth......

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127699206/covid19-mask-exemptions-proving-impossible-to-manage-countdown-says

Couple paragraphs in “its stores (plural) dealing with THOUSANDS of non mask wearers DAILY”

Delta failed to deliver after being overmarketed, people have lots of spare time in rebranded lockdown to read medical stats of what’s happening in other countries... and the massive trucker protests in Canada cant be hidden from public view....

Everyone has had enough....

pete376403
5th February 2022, 20:41
Denmark - similar population to NZ numbers wise - has lifted all restrictions WRT covid
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/460735/covid-19-denmark-restrictions-lifted-despite-increase-in-cases

Most recent covid stats for Denmark: 40,179 new cases yesterday
https://www.google.com/search?q=denmark+covid&rlz=1C1CHBD_enNZ879NZ879&oq=denmark&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j46i131i433i512j0i131i433i512l3j 0i131i433j0i131i433i512l2j46i131i433i512j0i512.516 5j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

husaberg
5th February 2022, 21:24
What does it matter what I work out. I'll wait for the law to make its determination and then society to enforce their will. As I said before "I guess one can pick and choose eh.".

Society has free will that's why they voted so strongly against what you perceive to be the correct way to address issues and what is important by such overwhelming numbers
That's why you lost out by over 26000 votes in the last election and scored half the votes you did the election before.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mana_(New_Zealand_electorate)#2017_election

FJRider
5th February 2022, 21:42
Let's ask the Jews.
Or the Uyghurs.
Or the Zeks.
Or the Chams.

Read my comment on comparisons in my last reply to Mashman.


The answer is Freedom.

What was the question again ... ?? But the great NZ UN-Vaccinated mob ... have a dam sight more freedoms than those groups you mention.


Well, let's look at the definition, shall we?

Look up the "Definition" of a "Modern" Prison. Would the "Modern" Concentration camp we are talking of ... be better or worse than a Prison .. ??


Minority group - Check.
Reasons of 'State Security' (read 'National Health') - Check.

Oh the poor minority groups. What makes them special .. ?? Are they expecting the Government to throw a few million $$$ at them. AS IF ...


Just proving the point still. I mean I'll hand it to you, it's one hell of a commitment to support Concentration Camps in order to be on the opposite side of a Debate from me - so Bravo.

As I said ... HEALTH Camps. Misquoting me again.



If attendance is completely voluntary, then fine.

Somehow, I don't suspect it would be.

Suspicious sod aren't you ...

Children got sent to Health camps here in NZ ... they helped thousands of kids. Why cant sick adults get the same treatment .. ??

FJRider
5th February 2022, 22:16
It was neither obscure nor insulting. Your choice how to read things.

So ... comparisons between how Nazi Germany treated the Jews ... and the carrying of a Covid passport is not obscure .. ??

And you believe that .. ??

A comparison with Darwins theory and those that are UN-vaccinated could be made too. I bet a few wont like THAT one either ...


My freedoms were taken.

I've lost no freedom. There's no where I can't go now ... I could go before Covid.


The non-vaccinated are being vilified for a lack of patriotism (the posters on here alone are evidence enough).

The vaccinations are supposed to be in the interest of their continued good health (if they were actually healthy to start with) and with the intent to stop (or as least slow) the spread of the virus. I haven't heard of any "Lack of Patriotism" comments. And certainly would not subscribe to that theory.

There might be a few that had to get vaccinated to keep their job ... and were pissed off). It certainly was a requirement for me ... But I'd already had the jabs anyway.

I've been to places where I had to fight to stay alive. A few vaccination jabs are by no means ... any comparison. A few jabs to stay alive is nothing new either.


Whether the jab worked or not, most of you dipshits have turned it into a loyalty contest, proving Goering absolutely bang on the money.

Your comparisons need work.

mashman
6th February 2022, 06:37
So ... comparisons between how Nazi Germany treated the Jews ... and the carrying of a Covid passport is not obscure .. ??

And you believe that .. ??

A comparison with Darwins theory and those that are UN-vaccinated could be made too. I bet a few wont like THAT one either ...



I've lost no freedom. There's no where I can't go now ... I could go before Covid.



The vaccinations are supposed to be in the interest of their continued good health (if they were actually healthy to start with) and with the intent to stop (or as least slow) the spread of the virus. I haven't heard of any "Lack of Patriotism" comments. And certainly would not subscribe to that theory.

There might be a few that had to get vaccinated to keep their job ... and were pissed off). It certainly was a requirement for me ... But I'd already had the jabs anyway.

I've been to places where I had to fight to stay alive. A few vaccination jabs are by no means ... any comparison. A few jabs to stay alive is nothing new either.



Your comparisons need work.

The observation I made was more inline with the segregation created by slavery/racism. Thought that much might have been obvious to You... guess not. I would happily compare the German and Jews thing too though, but not with regards to vaccination, more in line with the Goering thing. He led an entire country to conclude that it was ok for the leadership to kill Jews and go about fucking up the world for a while. I'd also add in the Iraq lies etc... as another variety of the same thing......................... Still personally prefer the segregation/slavery/racism angle for illustration purposes though... and if I were a Jew hater, I would have gone with the more apt modern day Israel-Palestine and the passports that non-Jews require to move around chunks of their own country.

You got your freedoms back. You lost them. They were taken from you under exceptionally questionable circumstances and then offered back to you with some slight adjustments. If you had anything remotely scientific to say, then yes, the comparisons would suck ass. The context is fine.

TheDemonLord
6th February 2022, 08:12
Read my comment on comparisons in my last reply to Mashman.

What was the question again ... ?? But the great NZ UN-Vaccinated mob ... have a dam sight more freedoms than those groups you mention.

Not if you had your way, which is the point.

Regardless of how you want to spin it - the fact you agreed that Concentration Camps are a good idea for a group you don't like validates my entire point and provides Vindication for all the people who gasped and clutched at their pearls, shrieking 'How dare you'.

And curiously enough all of those posters - They've been awfully quiet on condemning the idea of Concentration Camps - either from the Poll or from your support.


Look up the "Definition" of a "Modern" Prison. Would the "Modern" Concentration camp we are talking of ... be better or worse than a Prison .. ??

Complete Red Herring, but I'll indulge you. A Modern Prison is based not on a Group Identity, but on the Individual. You do something stupid, you go to Prison. Your Race/Gender/Religion/Group Characteristic is not the determining factor.


Oh the poor minority groups. What makes them special .. ?? Are they expecting the Government to throw a few million $$$ at them. AS IF ...

I think if you were to ask most people who are Unvaccinated, they wouldn't want Government money, they would want to be left alone.


As I said ... HEALTH Camps. Misquoting me again.

'Health Camp'
'Re-Education Camp'
'Labour Camp'

You can call it the Sexy Swingers and endless Orgy Camp for all it makes a difference. Still Immoral. Still wrong. Still definitionally a Concentration Camp.


Suspicious sod aren't you ...

Children got sent to Health camps here in NZ ... they helped thousands of kids. Why cant sick adults get the same treatment .. ??

Me? Skeptical and Cynical? Surely not....

The difference is that Children are under the care of Adults who (for the most part, NZ's child abuse stats notwithstanding) are acting in the best interest of the Child and have a direct genetic lineage and vested interest in the wellbeing of said Child, who legally does not have the ability to consent yet.

The State however does not have a Genetic Lineage to me, nor does it have the financial and emotional investment in me that my Parents do and finally, I legally have the ability to Consent.

Finally (speaking of Suspicious) - I noticed that some form of Evidence that I've made any reports about you to the Mods was Lacking. Would you care to issue a retraction?

husaberg
6th February 2022, 11:10
The observation I made was more inline with the segregation created by slavery/racism. Thought that much might have been obvious to You... guess not. I would happily compare the German and Jews thing too though, but not with regards to vaccination, more in line with the Goering thing. He led an entire country to conclude that it was ok for the leadership to kill Jews and go about fucking up the world for a while. I'd also add in the Iraq lies etc... as another variety of the same thing......................... Still personally prefer the segregation/slavery/racism angle for illustration purposes though... and if I were a Jew hater, I would have gone with the more apt modern day Israel-Palestine and the passports that non-Jews require to move around chunks of their own country.
.
whatever.........

:facepalm:... who knows what dodgy deeds are being done behind the closed doors of the jewish/jesuit/illuminati/annanuki/rothschild/church/masonic/nazis from the moon "orders". Fortunately it'll never happen here.


A jew is not a Jew in the sense that they are Jewish. A Catholic can be a jew, as can be a Muslim, as can an atheist, as can be any religious denomination you choose... it has feck all to do with the church, it's a state of mind and primarily involves fucking people over... more often than not using money as the weapon.

History, bwaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaa... it's written down, so it must be true :facepalm:

The financial system is worse than any religion by far! After all, you can leave a religion without needing to change your life in any way shape or form.

I didn't eat my meat so I know I'm not getting any pudding... we've done nuffin wrong dad, it's you that's the ignorant cunt. I mean, you don't even know what a jew is. Now repeat, "A jew is a total and utter cunt, I am merely an ignorant cunt" (not mashies a cunt smartarse), 20 times and we'll say no more about it.



Useless fuckers... jew:


:killingme... I never changed the meaning of the word, it was used as it came to me and has fuck all to do with the Jewish people. That you choose to think otherwise is YOU choosing to think otherwise.


Nothing conveys being willing to sell your gran without as second thought like the word jew. Now as far as I'm aware, Jewish family's are very close. Have you not considered that the origin of the word jew began as a sarcastic or irony remark? The Scots are know for being tight. WTF? So ya see, "I" simply wouldn't work, you silly boy. (I have also referred to jews as white muthafuckas).


:rofl:... some of them may be of use. Perhaps a probation period and community service cleaning "dole bludgers" houses? and then shot/gassed/drug induced and let loose in Sowf Awkland wearing a billboard of I hate niggers?


I took everyone's definition into consideration (it's your assumption that I haven't). The same can't be said everyone taking mine into consideration. So go ahead and lecture me some more about where I broke the chain of communication.

My opener on the subject: "A jew is not a Jew in the sense that they are Jewish. A Catholic can be a jew, as can be a Muslim, as can an atheist, as can be any religious denomination you choose... it has feck all to do with the church, it's a state of mind and primarily involves fucking people over... more often than not using money as the weapon"... and look at where it ended up eh, me as a bigoted nasty antisemitic racist cunt.

So yeah, tell me again about communication, tolerance, acceptance etc... :facepalm: The hypocrisy is hilarious.



Coz you say so? Well we used it with a different meaning and now you know what it means you can stop being so precious.
:yawn:


jew = blind scared old white muthafucka. They come in all flavours, colours, genders, religions, political ideologies etc... some are sugar frosted, some come with a flake drizzled in blood red syrup... but I prefer the ones dipped in hundreds and thousands and served in a wafer like a sammy. They exist, but they aren't necessarily Jewish by any stretch of the imagination.


Unfortunately I agree with too much of that John. Having said that, I'm at the point where I know that some entity is pulling strings that we can't dream up. Unfortunately there's a fuckload of information that points towards israel and the u.s. being at the root of it. So for me it doesn't matter who is doing it, it is that it is being done that is my concern, I mean, how do you stop that which is taking place let alone do it peacefully? Because as you say, they are the power and they do know what they're doing.


Women out: Ultra-Orthodox Jewish paper edits Merkel out of Paris march (http://www.rt.com/news/222267-merkel-out-march-paper/)

China and Russia to launch new credit rating agency in 2015 (http://www.rt.com/business/222175-russia-china-rating-agency/)


Muslim Shop Worker Saved Jewish Customers (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/muslim-shop-worker-saved-jewish-customers-015931185.html?vp=1#2Eiagxr). Which means Jewish Customers also saved a Muslim worker. Strange world.


Blair takes on tolerance role (https://uk.news.yahoo.com/blair-takes-tolerance-role-231343267.html#vapwXMv)

"The body campaigns for European countries to make Holocaust denial a criminal offence, clearly define racism and anti-Semitism, and to pay for security at synagogues and Jewish schools.". So it's ok to be racist, but denying that something happened could land you in jail? :killingme :facepalm:



From you that means absolutely nothing. That you feel it pertinent to associate the definition I gave with the Jewish people is highly insulting to them... so really if there's a bigoted cunt in here, it's you. I made the distinction, you put the two together to fuel your rage towards me. By all means rage at me, but please leave the Jewish people alone, they've done nothing wrong, bigot.



So now you want to set the context. My mates would call me a jew, I would call them a jew, none of us were Jewish, none of us hated each other. Persecute a subgroup? Where did I do that? You're grouping people now and trying to force that into my mouth. Come on, why so desperate?

R650R
6th February 2022, 13:00
Fluff news trying to be good germans now the narrative is collapsing are backing up what I said from day one.....

That is testing is not picking up the majority of cases which means the death rates and hospitalisation rates are orders of magnitude lower than reported.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127602091/omicron-nz-why-the-daily-covid19-data-will-soon-be-a-bit-of-a-muddle

“We typically get daily data on the number of cases in hospital.

The Ministry of Health counts any person in hospital with Covid as a hospitalisation, whether they’re there because of virus symptoms or complications, or for something completely unrelated.

As the number of Covid cases skyrockets, there will, of course, be very mild or asymptomatic cases admitted to hospital primarily with other conditions. ”

husaberg
6th February 2022, 13:19
Fluff news trying to be good germans now the narrative is collapsing are backing up what I said from day one.....

That is testing is not picking up the majority of cases which means the death rates and hospitalisation rates are orders of magnitude lower than reported.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/127602091/omicron-nz-why-the-daily-covid19-data-will-soon-be-a-bit-of-a-muddle

“We typically get daily data on the number of cases in hospital.

The Ministry of Health counts any person in hospital with Covid as a hospitalisation, whether they’re there because of virus symptoms or complications, or for something completely unrelated.

As the number of Covid cases skyrockets, there will, of course, be very mild or asymptomatic cases admitted to hospital primarily with other conditions. ”

Let's see you are a truck driver, you don't have any formal medical training nor scientic training, yet you like to insinuate you in fact know better than medical and scientific experts.
Any normal person would think this is highly unlikely that you in fact do, especially given how wrong 90% of your past predictions are. Also how you need to cheery pick information to confirm your bias.

Nor does it seem that you can actually understand what limits biological tests and why sensitivity and specificity are a trade off.
All of which any pretty basic 13 years could.
These facts should be added as a disclaimer at the top of all your posts. From what you post, you are a self-serving troll with apparently limited intellect.

Just to point out what a raging hypocrite you really are here is what you posted in the first place not what you have claimed above now is it troll.

The noun Pandemic is not mentioned in that post, does one not understand grammar.

Every disease is a Pandemic in the modern world as they all spread “across the country or roundvthe world”.

1600 people sick in a country of 5 million is no crisis worth destroying jobs and lives for.


Well well well, our journey into communist hell continues.

There has only been 1650 alleged cases (out of 700,000 tests!!!!) of the virus, but what has spread faster has been submission to communist control.
Nearly 2 million have downloaded the Covid app so you can be sent to a govt “ health” camp to catch the virus if you didnt already have it.

But yay 3 million kiwis have said no to turning their phone into govt spy device.

Tommorow is D-day, public transport will be the barometer of how many of us have rolled belly up to mask wearing.
Hopefully most will say screw this shit and drive their cars to work.

You don’t have to wear a mask if it affects your physical or mental health and you do NOT need to present documents to prove this.

Out and about it’s refreshing to see nearly No one scanning the qr code thingy.

It’s quite clear now as the mountain of contradictions grow that it’s not about stopping the “virus”..


Masks are for destroying social interaction and communication with strangers. You know those moments in life when some shitbag is bashing his missus and enough of you make visual contact to know you’ve got each other back and intervene.
But with masks there will never be any Flight 93 “lets roll” moments of bravery, you’ll never know if your fellow citizen is a Karen or Stasi as you reluctantly board the blacked out train carriage...
A cop will never see your friendly smile, never know you like them and not let you off that minor stop sign indescretion...


Your odds of dying from Covid in NZ is about the same as winning Powerball....
People dream of winning powerball, actively visit known powerball superspreader hot zones twice a week in hope of winning...

Meanwhile about 6 times as many people die in drink drive car crashes.
We even have mass random surveillance testing for that too, typically about 1.5-2% are ‘ infected’ with the influence of alcohol.....
Would we tolerate say a 24hr lockdown every time you bought a beer at bar?
Or after your night at the bar you don’t leave through the front door, a govt agent escorts you to a ‘quarantine ‘ facility which you can’t leave for 24 hrs.
Just imagine that, we would ABSOLUTELY save 150 lives a year
The govt will NEVER do that so why all this crap with the virus where the potential victim has a 93% chance of not even needing hospital treatment...


As of Dec 4 2020

1,298,455 Total tests

2219 positive test results

139 (estimated based on 6.3% in previous data of 1600/80 approx) Hospitalised

25 dead

WHY is it SO HARD to find the data on how many people in NZ NEEDED hospital treatment for this.
This number has to be actively suppressed as ALL the other data comes up very EASY in searches.
The answer is so people don’t ask WHY are we scared.
Can you imagine a Pandemic being declared of the PM said oh by the way 93% of you that actually manage to contract the virus won’t need to go to hospital just stay home and rest.
Nothing else matters the maths tells the story, especially post lockdown any new cases should have spread massively as everyone suddenly enjoyed a watered down form of freedom.
And just think of all those Asymptomatic cases in the 3,800,000 people that have NOT been tested...
There should be another 6600 odd positive cases, another 400 extra in hospital and another 75 people dead, where are they????

FJRider
6th February 2022, 17:56
Not if you had your way, which is the point.

If I "Had my way" ... The (my) mind boggles ... at what I could achieve ... and what that could/would entail ... ;)


Regardless of how you want to spin it - the fact you agreed that Concentration Camps are a good idea for a group you don't like ...

A group of self centered egotistical wankers (in MY opinion) ... but as a minority group ... have some belief they have some sort of entitlement. An entitlement I do not agree with ... but being a free society ... they can believe what they like. That it IS a freedom they DO have. But as YOU will well be aware ... beliefs are seldom (at least not always) truths.

Your BELIEF'S in a GOD is testimony to THAT point. Not EVERYBODY believes what YOU do. I guess you've figured THAT point out already.

BUT ... as I have ALREADY stated (a few times) ... the term concentration camps ... might be a little harsh. Think ... HEALTH camps. You'll sleep better. It is YOU that persists in calling them "Concentration Camps"


validates my entire point and provides Vindication for all the people who gasped and clutched at their pearls, shrieking 'How dare you'.

You yourself will have to admit ... minority groups DO have issues with trying to change the opinions of the MAJORITY.

Even so ... the majority aren't always right ... but being the the majority ... they usually get their way.

But ... continue the fight ... what have you got to lose .. ??


And curiously enough all of those posters - They've been awfully quiet on condemning the idea of Concentration Camps - either from the Poll or from your support.

Perhaps you've noticed ... only those that would actually BE in your "Concentration Camps" have voiced an opinion on the subject. Funny that.
BUT ... The freedom of those not voicing YOUR opinion is assured. And will continue to be assured ... :yes:

That's something for YOU to think about ... ;)


Complete Red Herring, but I'll indulge you. A Modern Prison is based not on a Group Identity, but on the Individual. You do something stupid, you go to Prison. Your Race/Gender/Religion/Group Characteristic is not the determining factor.

I call BULLSHIT to that. Those I know (personally) that have spent some time in any NZ prison ... has an entirely DIFFERENT opinion. Be it Para ... Mt Eden ... or ANY of the others ... time spent in ANY of them ... is treated like they belong to some sort of "Club". And have the (prison done) tat's to prove it.


I think if you were to ask most people who are Unvaccinated, they wouldn't want Government money, they would want to be left alone.

I call BULLSHIT to that too ... Most Companies now demand their staff be vaccinated. Unless the UN-vaccinated have a sizeable bank account ... one that can NEVER read "$ 000.00" ... they NEED Government money. And they still bitch it (their respective Benefit) is not a "Living WAGE ... ??"

My (personal) knowledge of Benefits reinforces the simple basic fact ... that Benefits are NEITHER. Nor were they ever INTENDED to be.

Go figure.


'Health Camp'
'Re-Education Camp'
'Labour Camp'

You can call it the Sexy Swingers and endless Orgy Camp for all it makes a difference. Still Immoral. Still wrong. Still definitionally a Concentration Camp.

If the issue is in the name ... I'm sure our Nobel Leader will come up with one you will (no doubt) disagree with ... but that is your problem. NOT mine.


Me? Skeptical and Cynical? Surely not....

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::whis tle::whistle::whistle::whistle:


The difference is that Children are under the care of Adults who (for the most part, NZ's child abuse stats notwithstanding) are acting in the best interest of the Child and have a direct genetic lineage and vested interest in the wellbeing of said Child, who legally does not have the ability to consent yet.

Explain WHY they NEED to be given meals in schools then .... going to school early to get their Breakfast ... and their Lunch ... at lunch time .. ??? ;)


The State however does not have a Genetic Lineage to me

If no members of your own family ever went to a health camp ... your family would indeed be lucky. Some families were not so fortunate.

But it doesn't absolve you from the simple fact ... if your family members had needed that help ... they could get it.


nor does it have the financial and emotional investment in me that my Parents do

Nor do you have the gratitude to the Government of the day ... for the assistance they may have given YOUR parents.

That ... might suggest ... you are one self centered prick. Even if it's only MY own opinion on that.


and finally, I legally have the ability to Consent.

You ALSO have the LEGAL ability to consent to be fucked up the ass by ANY of your Gay mates ... it's no longer a criminal activity.

Do you feel better about your "Ability to Consent" now ... ?? Your "Ability to Consent" '' really is no different to ANY citizen or resident in New Zealand.

Sorry ... but you really aren't that special.


Finally (speaking of Suspicious) - I noticed that some form of Evidence that I've made any reports about you to the Mods was Lacking. Would you care to issue a retraction?

When did I actually accuse you of anything untoward .. please quote the post if I did.

FJRider
6th February 2022, 19:39
The observation I made was more inline with the segregation created by slavery/racism.

Do you have the SAME fears as the Jews had ... when being asked for their papers in Nazi controlled areas ... with the possibility of a bullet in the head as a reward for a wrong answer .. ?? The same fear of your whole family just disappearing ... Can YOU actually understand THOSE fears ... ??

Or the SAME fears a slave had ... when the slave was chained to a wall when his/her days work was done ... ???

Yet you compare them ... as being the same regard ... as being asked for your Covid Passport.




Really ... ??



Thought that much might have been obvious to You... guess not. I would happily compare the German and Jews thing too though, but not with regards to vaccination, more in line with the Goering thing. He led an entire country to conclude that it was ok for the leadership to kill Jews and go about fucking up the world for a while.

That as I recall from my school history classes ... it was more of a Hitler thing ... than a Goering thing. Hitler was the one giving the orders. Goring (WW1 war hero notwithstanding) ... would have also suffered a bullet in the head (or worse). A fate Allied force members also suffered for not following orders. ... if he refused to follow Hitlers orders.

Admittedly ... He did enjoy the power he had. But so do many New Zealand ... Members of Parliament enjoy their (Perceived .. ??) power.


I'd also add in the Iraq lies etc... as another variety of the same thing.............

You've lost me ... which "Lies" are you referring to. There were plenty from both sides.


............ Still personally prefer the segregation/slavery/racism angle for illustration purposes though... and if I were a Jew hater, I would have gone with the more apt modern day Israel-Palestine and the passports that non-Jews require to move around chunks of their own country.

The "Illustration" you are wanting to show ... and the picture you draw ... might not be the same. Until you understand the fears of those jews and slaves ... it is difficult to compare them with anything YOU have experienced in the times of Covid.

Events reported (by anti-war persons ) on Iraq ... were reported in the same regard as anti Covid people do nowadays. It depends on what point they are trying to make. Usually its just an attempt to try and make their opinion look like the correct one. And themselves look good.

I always look good. It's in my DNA. So it's not my fault. Just my opinion.

By all means ... you are entitled to your opinions ... but if you try to force your opinions on me .. I have the right to return the same.



Your choice to comment on mine ... gives me the right to comment on yours.




You got your freedoms back.

I NEVER LOST ANY FREEDOMS.

Well .... apart from a bit of time in the Services Corrective establishment anyway. (Ardmore ... for those that are .. or aren't aware of where it was)


But that's another story.

mashman
6th February 2022, 20:41
Do you have the SAME fears as the Jews had ... when being asked for their papers in Nazi controlled areas ... with the possibility of a bullet in the head as a reward for a wrong answer .. ?? The same fear of your whole family just disappearing ... Can YOU actually understand THOSE fears ... ??

Or the SAME fears a slave had ... when the slave was chained to a wall when his/her days work was done ... ???

Yet you compare them ... as being the same regard ... as being asked for your Covid Passport.




Really ... ??




That as I recall from my school history classes ... it was more of a Hitler thing ... than a Goering thing. Hitler was the one giving the orders. Goring (WW1 war hero notwithstanding) ... would have also suffered a bullet in the head (or worse). A fate Allied force members also suffered for not following orders. ... if he refused to follow Hitlers orders.

Admittedly ... He did enjoy the power he had. But so do many New Zealand ... Members of Parliament enjoy their (Perceived .. ??) power.



You've lost me ... which "Lies" are you referring to. There were plenty from both sides.



The "Illustration" you are wanting to show ... and the picture you draw ... might not be the same. Until you understand the fears of those jews and slaves ... it is difficult to compare them with anything YOU have experienced in the times of Covid.

Events reported (by anti-war persons ) on Iraq ... were reported in the same regard as anti Covid people do nowadays. It depends on what point they are trying to make. Usually its just an attempt to try and make their opinion look like the correct one. And themselves look good.

I always look good. It's in my DNA. So it's not my fault. Just my opinion.

By all means ... you are entitled to your opinions ... but if you try to force your opinions on me .. I have the right to return the same.



Your choice to comment on mine ... gives me the right to comment on yours.





I NEVER LOST ANY FREEDOMS.

Well .... apart from a bit of time in the Services Corrective establishment anyway. (Ardmore ... for those that are .. or aren't aware of where it was)


But that's another story.


I grasp their fears, but still didn;t draw the bow you seem to claim I was drawing, despite me having pointed out a few times that that was the case. I've explained what I was going for, and yes, you have every right to scribble all over the picture I drew in order to call it something else. What you don't have is the right to claim that I drew it. That's just fucktarded beyond belief... although prevalent in bikers it would seem.

husaberg
6th February 2022, 21:15
I grasp their fears, but still didn;t draw the bow you seem to claim I was drawing, despite me having pointed out a few times that that was the case.

Well maybe next time you stand someone should include your what you claim as being not antisemitic in your local paper and we can let the greater public decide then?
you might pick up a few more than the 12 you got last time

What you don't have is the right to claim that I drew it.
isn't it interesting that you can claim to have the right to say whatever shit you want but then claim other people don't have the right to point out what they think of it

TheDemonLord
7th February 2022, 07:08
A group of self centered egotistical wankers (in MY opinion) ... but as a minority group ... have some belief they have some sort of entitlement. An entitlement I do not agree with ... but being a free society ... they can believe what they like. That it IS a freedom they DO have. But as YOU will well be aware ... beliefs are seldom (at least not always) truths.

Right, we can hold different beliefs and disagree with each other. I'm completely fine with that.
When you start restricting the rights of a group you disagree with. I'm completely NOT fine with that.


Your BELIEF'S in a GOD is testimony to THAT point. Not EVERYBODY believes what YOU do. I guess you've figured THAT point out already.

I'm an Atheist.... As you've been told. So since Ignorance isn't a defence, Wilful deceit is the only option left.


BUT ... as I have ALREADY stated (a few times) ... the term concentration camps ... might be a little harsh. Think ... HEALTH camps. You'll sleep better. It is YOU that persists in calling them "Concentration Camps"

Name is irrelevant. They fit the technical definition and would be wholly immoral.


You yourself will have to admit ... minority groups DO have issues with trying to change the opinions of the MAJORITY.

Even so ... the majority aren't always right ... but being the the majority ... they usually get their way.

But ... continue the fight ... what have you got to lose .. ??

The most successful change is an appeal to the Majorities Morals and sense of Justice. Almost like there's some shared idea of a set of Natural Rights...


Perhaps you've noticed ... only those that would actually BE in your "Concentration Camps" have voiced an opinion on the subject. Funny that.
BUT ... The freedom of those not voicing YOUR opinion is assured. And will continue to be assured ... :yes:

That's something for YOU to think about ... ;)

Except I'm Vaccinated, remember?


I call BULLSHIT to that. Those I know (personally) that have spent some time in any NZ prison ... has an entirely DIFFERENT opinion. Be it Para ... Mt Eden ... or ANY of the others ... time spent in ANY of them ... is treated like they belong to some sort of "Club". And have the (prison done) tat's to prove it.

More Red Herrings - but I'll (again) indulge. Sure, Prison Gangs are a thing, and when in Prison one tends to join a Group (if for no other reason than protection). One does not get sent solely to prison on having a Prison Tattoo or belonging to a Gang.

See the difference?


I call BULLSHIT to that too ... Most Companies now demand their staff be vaccinated.

Is it because of:

A: Government Mandates/Force
B: The company having a strong opinion on Vaccinations?

Not only that, but when the world gets it's sanity back, I can't wait for the Ulawful dismissal cases to start. Because unless a medical condition prevents you from doing your job, it's nigh impossible to fire someone for a Medical reason in NZ (and rightfully so)



Explain WHY they NEED to be given meals in schools then .... going to school early to get their Breakfast ... and their Lunch ... at lunch time .. ??? ;)

All comes back to personal responsibility.


If no members of your own family ever went to a health camp ... your family would indeed be lucky. Some families were not so fortunate.

But it doesn't absolve you from the simple fact ... if your family members had needed that help ... they could get it.

Right - and there's a difference in what we are talking about vs what you've posited in this statement.

Someone needs help, asks the Government for it and voluntarily go to a facility/camp to get the help = Great! Our civil society works
Someone doesn't ask for or want 'help', but the Government forces them from their home to attend a camp for an indeterminate amount of time = No better than the Nazis.


Nor do you have the gratitude to the Government of the day ... for the assistance they may have given YOUR parents.

I'm quite grateful to Margaret Thatcher if that's what you mean - her policies of de-regulation and free market economics worked wonders.


That ... might suggest ... you are one self centered prick. Even if it's only MY own opinion on that.

See above - Big OOF! for you.


You ALSO have the LEGAL ability to consent to be fucked up the ass by ANY of your Gay mates ... it's no longer a criminal activity.

Do you feel better about your "Ability to Consent" now ... ?? Your "Ability to Consent" '' really is no different to ANY citizen or resident in New Zealand.

Sorry ... but you really aren't that special.

I'm not sure where this obsession with me and Gay men has come from, but I'm starting to think it's some form of Homoerotic projection. In which case - I'm flattered, but no thank you.

Back to the question - Now consider there was a disease where the only way to prevent you passing it on was to be fucked up the ass by any of your gay mates. And the government forces this to be done each time you wanted to go somewhere.

See the difference between you doing something voluntarily and the government compelling it?


When did I actually accuse you of anything untoward .. please quote the post if I did.


but you have no sense of humour ... and would complain like a spoilt two year old to the site Moderators ... about how offended you are ...

And the follow-up:



What's baaeing offended .. ???
Have they received any from you for abuse of a member .. ??
Just like you do with me you mean .. ??

'Just like you do with me' There's your accusation.

So, just like to Pritch - if you can find any evidence of me doing any of the following:

1: Complaining to the Mods about being Offended
2: Reporting other members of this forum for Abusing me (and lord knows I'm so polarising if I was a shrinking violet I would have *plenty* to work with)
3: That I've red-repped you or rep-bombed you, ever.

I'll save you the trouble, because the answer to all of those is No.

I only ever give out Green rep since April 2016.

Either put up the evidence (which doesn't exist) or issue an apology and retraction.

R650R
7th February 2022, 11:54
GoFundMe has taken control of $9m in Trucker donations. But people started demanding a chargeback from their bank to punish GoFundMe with full refunds plus fees. Donors can donate to GiveSendGo instead.
The Truckers are not going anywhere. The legacy media claimed they stole food from the homeless at a soup kitchen in Ottawa, so the Truckers built a soup-kitchen, called “the Shack”, as a community kitchen, and are feeding the homeless. When told that was illegal, and they could not build a fixed structure, they announced they were adding wheels.
The city of Ottawa is restricting food sales to starve out the protesters, but instead the FreedomConvoy are feeding themselves. (Did the city not realize the Truckers might be good at the logistics of food deliveries?)
After threats to bring in the military to remove the truckers, the Military has told Ottawa to find someone else to evict the truckers.
Truckers are being called terrorist extremists but in the streets they are playing ice hockey, sweeping off the snow, congo dancing and doing the Macarena. Live music and fireworks happen at night. Look out, it’s an insurrection: Bouncing castles for children have arrived.
In chilling news, a white van appears to have deliberately struck a group of protesters. Four are in hospital. The driver has been apprehended.
UPDATE: Panicked, GoFundMe has now promised an automatic refund to everyone. But it’s too late now. If the aim was crush the resistance, it only made it stronger. But nobody wins. The money hasn’t gotten to the Truckers YET, but GoFundMe may have sabotaged itself.

mashman
7th February 2022, 13:10
GoFundMe has taken control of $9m in Trucker donations. But people started demanding a chargeback from their bank to punish GoFundMe with full refunds plus fees. Donors can donate to GiveSendGo instead.
The Truckers are not going anywhere. The legacy media claimed they stole food from the homeless at a soup kitchen in Ottawa, so the Truckers built a soup-kitchen, called “the Shack”, as a community kitchen, and are feeding the homeless. When told that was illegal, and they could not build a fixed structure, they announced they were adding wheels.
The city of Ottawa is restricting food sales to starve out the protesters, but instead the FreedomConvoy are feeding themselves. (Did the city not realize the Truckers might be good at the logistics of food deliveries?)
After threats to bring in the military to remove the truckers, the Military has told Ottawa to find someone else to evict the truckers.
Truckers are being called terrorist extremists but in the streets they are playing ice hockey, sweeping off the snow, congo dancing and doing the Macarena. Live music and fireworks happen at night. Look out, it’s an insurrection: Bouncing castles for children have arrived.
In chilling news, a white van appears to have deliberately struck a group of protesters. Four are in hospital. The driver has been apprehended.
UPDATE: Panicked, GoFundMe has now promised an automatic refund to everyone. But it’s too late now. If the aim was crush the resistance, it only made it stronger. But nobody wins. The money hasn’t gotten to the Truckers YET, but GoFundMe may have sabotaged itself.

I was wondering if they'd fill trucks with their own supplies, or simply use someone else's... coz 50,000 trucks in a lot of policework :killingme...

Berries
7th February 2022, 15:24
Wasn't sure if this should be in jokes and humour, stupid world or just here.

FFS

mulletman
7th February 2022, 17:10
Wasn't sure if this should be in jokes and humour, stupid world or just here.

FFS

They dont need a Vax pass to travel on the ferry....the ones i spoke with knew this and know that a neg test within 72hrs is all they needed.

husaberg
7th February 2022, 17:33
They dont need a Vax pass to travel on the ferry....the ones i spoke with knew this and know that a neg test within 72hrs is all they needed.

i think you will find the antivaxers don't generally believe in the test either, "because of facebook tm"

TheDemonLord
7th February 2022, 18:58
i think you will find the antivaxers don't generally believe in the test either, "because of facebook tm"

Except they aren't the ones who need to believe in it, only the people who check the tests need to...

Kendog
7th February 2022, 19:01
They think the Covid test will kill them.
Just like they think the Covid vaccine will kill them.

F5 Dave
7th February 2022, 19:36
Stupidity will be thier greatest foe.

FJRider
7th February 2022, 20:12
Particularly the sections about Informed Consent and how it cannot be made under Duress.

Cannot be ... or SHOULD not be ... ?? But regardless of the wording ... if it's not in LAW ... it cannot be enforced.



If you think it CAN be enforced ... what is the maximum penalty for doing so in NZ ... ??

FJRider
7th February 2022, 20:29
Not if you had your way, which is the point.

My word isn't Law. YET.

THAT point you obviously missed.

Currently ... it's only (as you well know) my opinion. An opinion ... that I hope winds you up.

It appears ... I've succeeded ...


Regardless of how you want to spin it - the fact you agreed that Concentration Camps are a good idea for a group you don't like ...

As you well know ... It' NOT FACT ... Currently ... it's only (as you well know) just my opinion. And an opinion that I hope winds you up.

It appears ... I've succeeded ... AGAIN.


And curiously enough all of those posters - They've been awfully quiet on condemning the idea of Concentration Camps - either from the Poll or from your support.

Perhaps they agree.


Complete Red Herring, but I'll indulge you. A Modern Prison is based not on a Group Identity, but on the Individual. You do something stupid, you go to Prison. Your Race/Gender/Religion/Group Characteristic is not the determining factor.

That is the official version actually. A Prison is a community. And such is how the residents are viewed. And how the residents are expected to conform.

FJRider
7th February 2022, 21:27
... When you start restricting the rights of a group you disagree with. I'm completely NOT fine with that.

I have not restricted ANY of your rights. Retract that statement.


I'm an Atheist....

Well done to admit that.

I guess that is another God given right you have.


Name is irrelevant. They fit the technical definition and would be wholly immoral.

If they fit the "Technical definition" ... it would be (in a court of law) correct AND Legal.


The most successful change is an appeal to the Majorities Morals and sense of Justice.

And the result of which ... is .. ??


Except I'm Vaccinated, remember?

And haven't the balls to stand with the ones that you claim to support. What "Rights" did YOU lose .. ??


More Red Herrings - but I'll (again) indulge. Sure, Prison Gangs are a thing, and when in Prison one tends to join a Group (if for no other reason than protection). One does not get sent solely to prison on having a Prison Tattoo or belonging to a Gang.

I wasn't talking about prison gangs ...


See the difference?

Did you .. ?? Obviously not.


Not only that, but when the world gets it's sanity back, I can't wait for the Ulawful dismissal cases to start.

Actually ... they OFFICIALLY are on unpaid leave.

NO notice's of dismissal were EVER given. For the reasons of it's illegality.

If and when they get vaccinated ... or the Pandemic ends and some sort of normality returns ... they can/will (if they choose to) return to their workplace.


All comes back to personal responsibility.

To themselves ... and their family's.


Right - and there's a difference in what we are talking about vs what you've posited in this statement.

And a difference between What I posted and you posted.

Your point is .. ??


Someone needs help, asks the Government for it and voluntarily go to a facility/camp to get the help = Great! Our civil society works
Someone doesn't ask for or want 'help', but the Government forces them from their home to attend a camp for an indeterminate amount of time = No better than the Nazis.

If you are talking about Health camps ... Nobody was FORCED to go to them. Most were quite happy about it ... as it was as all concerned .. knew it was in their own best interest. Some didn't go. NO recriminations at all.


I'm quite grateful to Margaret Thatcher if that's what you mean - her policies of de-regulation and free market economics worked wonders.

She'll be glad to hear that ... but she's not the PM anymore.


See above - Big OOF! for you.

The OOF was yours ... did it hurt .. ??


I'm not sure where this obsession with me and Gay men has come from, but I'm starting to think it's some form of Homoerotic projection. In which case - I'm flattered, but no thank you.

Just what I was told. He said he was your boyfriend.

Perhaps I misunderstood what he said.


Back to the question - Now consider there was a disease where the only way to prevent you passing it on was to be fucked up the ass by any of your gay mates.

As you'll have more gay mates than me ... you will probably survive.

ME ... not so much. That's MY personal choice.


See the difference between you doing something voluntarily and the government compelling it?

Those that fail to comply with Government requirements ... will already know what the result will be. AS above ... I may not survive.

Bugger ... eh .. !!!


And the follow-up:

Still waiting for an explanation what ... "baaeing offended" means ...


'Just like you do with me' There's your accusation.

Have you been notified of any complaints of abuse been made by me ... about you .. ?? You're grasping at straws again.

I asked a question ... and you went totally over the top on the defense.

Funny that.


Either put up the evidence (which doesn't exist) or issue an apology and retraction.

As I said ... put up the post I made of accusing you of anything. You can't as there wasn't one.

Any wording that might "Imply" anything ... isn't an accusation.

Just your vivid imagination ... under pressure to prove ANY point.

Berries
7th February 2022, 21:52
I did.
No, I did.


You did.
YES.....


I did.
No, I did.


You did.
YES.....


I did.
No I did.


I did.
Did I?


You did.
YES.....


I did.
No, I did.


Did you?
No, I did.


You did.
YES.....


I DID.
No, I did.

husaberg
7th February 2022, 22:12
They think the Covid test will kill them.
Just like they think the Covid vaccine will kill them.


Stupidity will be their greatest foe.

https://images.dmhshirt.com/2021/12/awesome-vintage-lets-go-darwin-2022-t-shirt-shirt.jpg

TheDemonLord
8th February 2022, 08:06
No, I did.


YES.....


No, I did.


YES.....


No I did.


Did I?


YES.....


No, I did.


No, I did.


YES.....


No, I did.

Well, I laughed...

TheDemonLord
8th February 2022, 08:38
Cannot be ... or SHOULD not be ... ?? But regardless of the wording ... if it's not in LAW ... it cannot be enforced.
If you think it CAN be enforced ... what is the maximum penalty for doing so in NZ ... ??

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/127354477/doctor-fined-30000-for-accessing-friends-and-acquaintances-medical-records

That's $30k just for accessing records without Consent.

And for reference, in NZ Law, a patient over the age of 16 can refuse medical consent. So if a nurse tried to take a blood sample where you refused consent (and there wasn't a court order), then they could be guilty of Assault.

So to answer your question - whatever the Maximum penalty for whatever they did was.


My word isn't Law. YET.

THAT point you obviously missed.

Currently ... it's only (as you well know) my opinion. An opinion ... that I hope winds you up.

It appears ... I've succeeded ...

As you well know ... It' NOT FACT ... Currently ... it's only (as you well know) just my opinion. And an opinion that I hope winds you up.

It appears ... I've succeeded ... AGAIN.

I said previously - I respect the commitment to winding me up, but when you need to agree with the Nazis, that says more about you than me. I'm very much against the whole Concentration Camps, Group punishment thing.

And again, whilst your word or opinion isn't law, it's the fact you are thinking it.


Perhaps they agree.

Exactly my point.


That is the official version actually. A Prison is a community. And such is how the residents are viewed. And how the residents are expected to conform.

But entry into the Community is based upon an Individuals actions, not group identity.


I have not restricted ANY of your rights. Retract that statement.

Your approval of my rights being restricted is good enough, so no.


Well done to admit that.

I guess that is another God given right you have.

Freedom of Religion is a Natural Right. I can see how this would be confusing. Interestingly enough, It's actually one of the key areas where God-Given rights diverges from Natural Rights - mainly because most religions only grant the God-Given rights to those who believe in their God, whereas the Natural Right extends for anyone to believe whatever they wish.


If they fit the "Technical definition" ... it would be (in a court of law) correct AND Legal.

I bet those hung at Nuremberg wished they had you as their defence Counsel.

"Ackshully Your Honor, The law was correct and legal, therefore the Holocaust was A-Okay."

Yeah.... Nah.


And the result of which ... is .. ??

Ending of Slavery, Gay Rights, Universal Emancipation - I mean, take your pick.


And haven't the balls to stand with the ones that you claim to support. What "Rights" did YOU lose .. ??

And how do you know I don't stand with them? Awfully presumptuous.

What Rights did I loose? The right not to have to prove my medical status to access Goods and Services. The right not to have legalized discrimination on a personal choice.


I wasn't talking about prison gangs ...

Gangs, not gangs - it's still beside the point. People get hauled off to prison based on their actions (with the exceptions of miscarriages of Justice).


Actually ... they OFFICIALLY are on unpaid leave.

NO notice's of dismissal were EVER given. For the reasons of it's illegality.

If and when they get vaccinated ... or the Pandemic ends and some sort of normality returns ... they can/will (if they choose to) return to their workplace.

Ah yes, the Official Line, Totally 100% Legit Guv'nor...

Except there have already been people fired for not complying with Vaccination Mandates.



And a difference between What I posted and you posted.

Your point is .. ??


If you are talking about Health camps ... Nobody was FORCED to go to them. Most were quite happy about it ... as it was as all concerned .. knew it was in their own best interest. Some didn't go. NO recriminations at all.

And there we have it.

Voluntary help = Good.
Enforced Tyranny = Bad.

If there was a Covid Health camp, where anyone (unvaccinated or otherwise) were free to go to, of their own volition, I would have no problem with it (so long as there was absolutely no coercion at all).

But forcing a group to go to a camp because you don't like them, is bad.


She'll be glad to hear that ... but she's not the PM anymore.

Or alive anymore, but the point remains - some of the things she championed I am very grateful for, Contrary to your jab. I mean I could even take it further and say that I'm so very grateful for the inheritance of the British Liberal tradition that I so avidly defend it.



Just what I was told. He said he was your boyfriend.
Perhaps I misunderstood what he said.
ME ... not so much. That's MY personal choice.
Those that fail to comply with Government requirements ... will already know what the result will be. AS above ... I may not survive.
Bugger ... eh .. !!!

And when you loose access to all the things you want to do, will it still be your personal choice?

It will be a Bugger, but don't worry - I'll be there supporting your right not to get fucked by the Government.

I'll leave you to decide which is more insufferable...

And as for the last part - I see a closed quote bracket, with no comment from you.

I'll ask the simple question: Can you provide any evidence that I've ever rep-bombed you with Negative Rep? We both know the answer is you cannot, so all that is left is for you to accept that this was a lie and move on.

FJRider
8th February 2022, 16:42
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/127354477/doctor-fined-30000-for-accessing-friends-and-acquaintances-medical-records

That's $30k just for accessing records without Consent.

And for reference, in NZ Law, a patient over the age of 16 can refuse medical consent. So if a nurse tried to take a blood sample where you refused consent (and there wasn't a court order), then they could be guilty of Assault.

So to answer your question - whatever the Maximum penalty for whatever they did was.

Actually ... MY reply was in regard to your comment ... which was ...
Particularly the sections about Informed Consent and how it cannot be made under Duress. ... that is ... To be given informed consent ... you must know enough about your condition and the treatment or procedure your doctor or other healthcare provider has suggested ... before you can make an "Informed Decision" ...

The bits you quoted above ... have nothing to do with informed consent. Talk about "Red Herrings ... :killingme

Nothing in your reply (top) is covered in question of anything remotely about Informed Consent ... and how it cannot be made under Duress in the link you posted ... another "oof" by you.

Or were you just trying to change the subject ... and hope I wouldn't notice .. ???

Some info for you about Informed consent. Note the bit about penalty's if informed consent isn't given.

https://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/standards/55f15c65af/Statement-on-informed-consent.pdf


I said previously - I respect the commitment to winding me up, but when you need to agree with the Nazis, that says more about you than me. I'm very much against the whole Concentration Camps, Group punishment thing.

I lunched at McDonalds in Dunedin today ... not asked for a covid passport. I guess its an essential service now ... and they're not required there.


And again, whilst your word or opinion isn't law, it's the fact you are thinking it.

Knowing some of the laws ... even some obscure ones ... comes in handy at times. It comes under the heading of ... Actually knowing your rights in LAW. And the penalties involved.


Exactly my point.

So ... if the silent majority agree with it ... and a vocal minority do not ... YOU think that makes the vocal minority right ... ??

Really ... ??


But entry into the Community is based upon an Individuals actions, not group identity.

Entry into any community is solely based on personal choices made (sometimes after those personal choices and actions ... THEN entry is court ordered) ... of the person concerned. Be it a "Health camp" ... Prison ... or a retirement village.


Your approval of my rights being restricted is good enough, so no.

I am aghast ... your opinion of my approval so offends me. I demand an apology.

As I'm aware ... you're in Dorkland (I'm not sure how far from Auckland that is) ... so I have NO chance of restricting ANY of your rights or privileges in any way. I would if I could though ... But (sadly) ... I can't ... Sorry to burst that bubble.

Put me on ignore and do not reply to my posts. I will STILL reply to yours though.


Freedom of Religion is a Natural Right.

Said the self declared Atheist ... But believe what you like. Your batting average so far ... suggests you'd be WRONG.


I bet those hung at Nuremberg wished they had you as their defence Counsel.

Or hanging with them ...


"Ackshully Your Honor, The law was correct and legal, therefore the Holocaust was A-Okay."

Yeah.... Nah.

They did what they did as it was required of them in the most part. Many went to extreme lengths to satisfy their their own urges and feelings of power.

That's why the were HUNG.


Ending of Slavery, Gay Rights, Universal Emancipation - I mean, take your pick.

ALL of the above still goes on. And you probably know the places concerned where it does ... but for sure ... it STILL goes on.


And how do you know I don't stand with them? Awfully presumptuous.

If you "Stand with them" and having been fully vaccinated ... it makes you a hypocrite.

If you don't stand with them ... that makes you ... WHAT .. ??


What Rights did I loose? The right not to have to prove my medical status to access Goods and Services. The right not to have legalized discrimination on a personal choice.

If you do not wish to show them anything ... simply don't. That is your right.


Gangs, not gangs - it's still beside the point.

It is if you misquote me ... or be off topic on what I posted ... you get pissed off when I do that to you ... :killingme


Ah yes, the Official Line, Totally 100% Legit Guv'nor...

Except there have already been people fired for not complying with Vaccination Mandates.

I haven't ... Have you .. ??

How many have been FIRED for not complying with the Vaccination mandates ... ?? Got a link for that ... or should I ask Hussy ... ??


And there we have it.

Voluntary help = Good.
Enforced Tyranny = Bad.

At the moment ... that is (I wont say solely) just your opinion.


If there was a Covid Health camp, where anyone (unvaccinated or otherwise) were free to go to, of their own volition, I would have no problem with it (so long as there was absolutely no coercion at all).

As far as I'm aware ... there isn't. Those that are UN-vaccinated ... might die of covid anyway. So ... the camps probably wont be required.


But forcing a group to go to a camp because you don't like them, is bad.

I haven't forced anybody to do anything they didn't like to do ... ever. Ok ... there was a time ... and the uniform was green. And I had a rifle.

Once one even got tied up ... but she liked that ... ;)


Or alive anymore, but the point remains - ...

Nah ... and she wasn't around in the times of covid. So who knows what opinions or theories she might have had in these time ... you'll never know for sure. Just guess. As is your usual process if you don't know for sure.


And when you loose access to all the things you want to do, will it still be your personal choice?

If that ever happens ... I'll let you know. I promise.

Unlikely though.


It will be a Bugger, but don't worry - I'll be there supporting your right not to get fucked by the Government.

As I said ... unlikely.


I'll leave you to decide which is more insufferable...

Something MORE insufferable than reading about your winge's and perverted opinions ... unlikely.


And as for the last part - I see a closed quote bracket, with no comment from you.

Which post ?? send me a link by whatever method you choose ... and I will get back to you on it. I promise. I might of missed a comment. Sorry.


I'll ask the simple question: Can you provide any evidence that I've ever rep-bombed you with Negative Rep? We both know the answer is you cannot, so all that is left is for you to accept that this was a lie and move on.

If you can show me the post (or proof) that I accused you of EVER "Rep-Bombing" me (positive or negative) ... I will apologize. .

F5 Dave
8th February 2022, 17:16
God, with all this sparring of multi quote posts, do you think the other recipient objectively considers the response or just skims words to multi quote back with more flimflam responses?

No wonder I unsubscribed this thread. Best do it again.

FJRider
8th February 2022, 19:56
God, with all this sparring of multi quote posts, do you think the other recipient objectively considers the response or just skims words to multi quote back with more flimflam responses?

No wonder I unsubscribed this thread. Best do it again.

You missed it while you were unsubscribed. Admit it.


You know you like it.

And I bet you can't wait for "The other recipient" to reply.

Go on ... ADMIT IT ... :killingme

FJRider
8th February 2022, 19:58
They think the Covid test will kill them.
Just like they think the Covid vaccine will kill them.

We live in the hope it will.

Well ... I do.

husaberg
8th February 2022, 20:28
God, with all this sparring of multi quote posts, do you think the other recipient objectively considers the response or just skims words to multi quote back with more flimflam responses?

No wonder I unsubscribed this thread. Best do it again.

I prefer the option of sorting the wheat from the chaff with a filter
350629

FJRider
8th February 2022, 20:42
Two of your recent complaints/questions ... you recently made to me. Are they in fact two different complaints (put up or shut up) ... or is only one the actual complaint ... and the other is one you made after you got pissed/stoned/other ... and forgot was it was you thought you'd bitched about.

Pick one and report it if you feel the need. Or find proof (like quoted post of mine ... post it here if you find it) ... and we'll go from there.





Finally (speaking of Suspicious) - I noticed that some form of Evidence that I've made any reports about you to the Mods was Lacking. Would you care to issue a retraction?


[I'll ask the simple question: Can you provide any evidence that I've ever rep-bombed you with Negative Rep? We both know the answer is you cannot, so all that is left is for you to accept that this was a lie and move on.

FJRider
8th February 2022, 21:04
And as for the last part - I see a closed quote bracket, with no comment from you.

I had a look through the recent quotes I made of yours ... I didn't find one I hadn't replied to.

No reply yet ... from you ... about those other two complaints you made about/to me.

FJRider
8th February 2022, 23:40
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............

Actually ... The Nuremberg Code has not been officially accepted as law by any nation ... or as official ethics guidelines by any association. In fact, the Code's reference to Hippocratic duty to the individual patient and the need to provide information was not initially favored by the American Medical Association.

In fact ... The Nuremberg Code isn’t ... and wasn’t ... legally binding. It’s not legally enforceable ... it’s a guideline rather than law

The Nuremberg Code is ALL about the active experimentation on humans. For the most part ... during some sort of clinical trial ... of some description.

So when we talk about the Pfizer or AstraZeneca (or whatever the name is of the vaccines) ... we are out of the auspices of the Nuremberg Code. Simply because these are products that have been trialed ... and with the appropriate ethics put in place. They has been approved for public use ... AND ... in production and being used world wide.

Next you'll be saying ... that every single drug in circulation (like Prozac for example) is an experiment ... ??


And drawing ANY link between the rollout of these vaccines ... and what the Nazi Doctors did in the 1940's ... is simply wrong.

mashman
9th February 2022, 06:55
Actually ... The Nuremberg Code has not been officially accepted as law by any nation ... or as official ethics guidelines by any association. In fact, the Code's reference to Hippocratic duty to the individual patient and the need to provide information was not initially favored by the American Medical Association.

In fact ... The Nuremberg Code isn’t ... and wasn’t ... legally binding. It’s not legally enforceable ... it’s a guideline rather than law

The Nuremberg Code is ALL about the active experimentation on humans. For the most part ... during some sort of clinical trial ... of some description.

So when we talk about the Pfizer or AstraZeneca (or whatever the name is of the vaccines) ... we are out of the auspices of the Nuremberg Code. Simply because these are products that have been trialed ... and with the appropriate ethics put in place. They has been approved for public use ... AND ... in production and being used world wide.

Next you'll be saying ... that every single drug in circulation (like Prozac for example) is an experiment ... ??


And drawing ANY link between the rollout of these vaccines ... and what the Nazi Doctors did in the 1940's ... is simply wrong.

Kickaha pointed out similar already. My response: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on/page112

Experimenting on 1 or billions, is still experimenting. I wouldn't even have to draw a long bow. Almost everything else is someone else's scribblings bourn of their own projected prejudices. They claimed a lot of things following that testing. Why did the actual results not match the test results? (You mentioned Prozac... is that you projecting given that you can't maintain the story that everyone will be protected with herd immunity :shifty: )

mashman
9th February 2022, 09:33
Not sure why this is taking place in a mock court and not a real court, but hey, I actually do know why a real court refuses to hear it... coz, well, science does not prove (nor did it ever prove the need for) the narrative that sees ya'll hoping that those who don't get vaccinated against covid die from covid. The world has become Akzle and it doesn't even know it so perfect are they.

Science disproving conspiracy (https://www.grand-jury.net/). EP 1 outlines what's coming and who will be 'testifying'... so ya'll source restricted bitches can rush to snopes and bulk up on ad hominems and bullshit to defend why you went and got vaccinated and demand that others do despite the evidence that no vaccination was required.

Kendog
9th February 2022, 11:16
Not sure why this is taking place in a mock court and not a real court, but hey, I actually do know why a real court refuses to hear it... coz, well, science does not prove (nor did it ever prove the need for) the narrative that sees ya'll hoping that those who don't get vaccinated against covid die from covid. The world has become Akzle and it doesn't even know it so perfect are they.

Science disproving conspiracy (https://www.grand-jury.net/). EP 1 outlines what's coming and who will be 'testifying'... so ya'll source restricted bitches can rush to snopes and bulk up on ad hominems and bullshit to defend why you went and got vaccinated and demand that others do despite the evidence that no vaccination was required.

Thanks for linking to that random web site. It must be true and correct, it’s on the internet. You now have all the evidence you need to confirm the vast majority of scientists and doctors are wrong.

I present my own random website that is also true and correct. Finally we can sleep easy knowing the truth, it’s been a conspiracy all along.

https://www.um.edu.mt/think/the-earth-is-flat/

Cutting edge researchers from the University of Malta, Dr Harry Johnson, Prof. Anita Bath, and Dr Oliver Klosov have confirmed that there is evidence to suggest that the world is, in fact, flat. This discovery has come to the forefront from a longitudinal study spanning 25 years from over 50 leading universities around the world — beginning at the University of Malta

TheDemonLord
9th February 2022, 11:57
Actually ... MY reply was in regard to your comment ... which was ... ... that is ... To be given informed consent ... you must know enough about your condition and the treatment or procedure your doctor or other healthcare provider has suggested ... before you can make an "Informed Decision" ...

The bits you quoted above ... have nothing to do with informed consent. Talk about "Red Herrings ... :killingme

Nothing in your reply (top) is covered in question of anything remotely about Informed Consent ... and how it cannot be made under Duress in the link you posted ... another "oof" by you.

Or were you just trying to change the subject ... and hope I wouldn't notice .. ???

Some info for you about Informed consent. Note the bit about penalty's if informed consent isn't given.

https://www.mcnz.org.nz/assets/standards/55f15c65af/Statement-on-informed-consent.pdf

Yep - the bit that says 'Without informed consent, the treatment may be unlawful.' In fact, it's in the NZ Bill of rights:


Right to refuse to undergo medical treatment

Everyone has the right to refuse to undergo any medical treatment.

And for a little bonus https://www.hdc.org.nz/your-rights/the-code-and-your-rights/


Right 2

The right to freedom from discrimination, coercion, harassment, and exploitation.


I lunched at McDonalds in Dunedin today ... not asked for a covid passport. I guess its an essential service now ... and they're not required there.

Firstly - Good on them.
Secondly - they are breaking the law as written currently.


Knowing some of the laws ... even some obscure ones ... comes in handy at times. It comes under the heading of ... Actually knowing your rights in LAW. And the penalties involved.

Indeed - see above :msn-wink:


So ... if the silent majority agree with it ... and a vocal minority do not ... YOU think that makes the vocal minority right ... ??

Really ... ??

If only there was a Logical Fallacy based on this very premise

If only... (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum)


Entry into any community is solely based on personal choices made (sometimes after those personal choices and actions ... THEN entry is court ordered) ... of the person concerned. Be it a "Health camp" ... Prison ... or a retirement village.

Unless it's forced.


I am aghast ... your opinion of my approval so offends me. I demand an apology.

I've checked, it's unlikely to happen.


As I'm aware ... you're in Dorkland (I'm not sure how far from Auckland that is) ... so I have NO chance of restricting ANY of your rights or privileges in any way. I would if I could though ... But (sadly) ... I can't ... Sorry to burst that bubble.

Put me on ignore and do not reply to my posts. I will STILL reply to yours though.

And again, you prove the point: You would if you could. Whereas I would not. I would disagree with you, but I would never restrict your rights. Case in point on this very Forum: Katman - lord knows I disagreed with him on just about anything and everything - yet I spoke up in his defence to be free to say whatever he pleased (so long as it was legal).

As for Ignore - I don't have anyone on my Ignore list and I don't intend to start. If you still reply to me, then there is still a discussion to be had and so I'll reply (if I feel it warrants it)




Said the self declared Atheist ... But believe what you like. Your batting average so far ... suggests you'd be WRONG.

Yep, because Freedom to Believe also includes the Freedom NOT to believe.



They did what they did as it was required of them in the most part. Many went to extreme lengths to satisfy their their own urges and feelings of power.

That's why the were HUNG.


The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice was in fact possible to him.

They were Hung because they knew what they were doing was wrong, but did it an


ALL of the above still goes on. And you probably know the places concerned where it does ... but for sure ... it STILL goes on.

How many Slaves do you know? What about people in prison for being Gay? I mean if you are saying we should go back to the days of Empire when Britain sent the Royal Navy around the world to enforce these ideals on other parts of the World, then roll out the Tea, boys, we've got some Colonising to do.



If you "Stand with them" and having been fully vaccinated ... it makes you a hypocrite.

No, it doesn't.

Because I am supporting their right to choose. I made my decision to choose based on both the science and personal factors. And I did so before there was any requirement for a Passport.

I can support your right to choose, without wanting to make the same choice.




If you do not wish to show them anything ... simply don't. That is your right.

And then what happens, Discrimination based on personal Choice. It's no different from being denied entry to a business based on your religious affiliation.


It is if you misquote me ... or be off topic on what I posted ... you get pissed off when I do that to you ... :killingme

Only thing I get pissed about is false accusations on what I do here.




I haven't ... Have you .. ??

How many have been FIRED for not complying with the Vaccination mandates ... ?? Got a link for that ... or should I ask Hussy ... ??

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/456395/over-100-nurses-sacked-after-refusing-vaccine

There you go. And it doesn't matter if it's 1 or 1,000,000 - it's still a moral injustice.


At the moment ... that is (I wont say solely) just your opinion.

And why won't you say solely? Is it because there's an Ethic or Morality that underpins my position that you happen to agree with? Wouldn't that be inconvenient.



Once one even got tied up ... but she liked that ... ;)

So then it wasn't forced, was it?


Nah ... and she wasn't around in the times of covid. So who knows what opinions or theories she might have had in these time ... you'll never know for sure. Just guess. As is your usual process if you don't know for sure.

Well, see she WAS the PM around the AIDS crisis and wouldn't you know it - She's documented as not wanting to mass public health 'warnings' because she didn't want to demonise a particular group.

I think we can draw some pretty solid conclusions on her refusal to discriminate and create a two-tier society.



If that ever happens ... I'll let you know. I promise.
Unlikely though.
As I said ... unlikely.


Many unlikely things have happened of late... So which is it - personal freedom to choose or a Government issued Ass-fucking?



Something MORE insufferable than reading about your winge's and perverted opinions ... unlikely.




Which post ?? send me a link by whatever method you choose ... and I will get back to you on it. I promise. I might of missed a comment. Sorry.

If you can show me the post (or proof) that I accused you of EVER "Rep-Bombing" me (positive or negative) ... I will apologize. .

I see that you've edited the post where there was a missing quote and added some commentary.

I'll skip the last couple of posts for the sake of cross-post multi quoting.

First you insinuated that if you took what I posted and reversed it - I'd go running to the Mods and crying abuse. Something that I do not do.
I pointed out I've only ever reported one member and that was for rep-bombing me (against the rules) - to which you replied to that specific comment with: 'Like you do with me', pretty clear accusation that I've rep-bombed you.

Something I have not done. Ever.

And I take accusations about things like that seriously - you can call me a Cunt and every insult under the sun to the cows come home and not once will I report you or the post, I've got a thick skin - but say I've done something that I haven't and yeah - I'm very quick to say post up the evidence or take it back.

So how to proceed - If you wish to confirm that you did not mean to say or imply that either I go reporting you or any member of this site for abuse or that I've ever rep-bombed you - Then I'll take that on good faith and leave it be.

Fair?

Berries
9th February 2022, 16:37
I lunched at McDonalds in Dunedin today ... not asked for a covid passport. I guess its an essential service now ... and they're not required there.
I thought you used the drive through?

Now that's a Happy Meal. (https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/sexual-act-performed-front-mcdonalds-drive-thru-worker)

TheDemonLord
9th February 2022, 16:40
I thought you used the drive through?

Now that's a Happy Meal. (https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/sexual-act-performed-front-mcdonalds-drive-thru-worker)

Mad respect to the 71 year old.

Road Head and someone 27 years his junior. That we all have such game at that age.

FJRider
9th February 2022, 18:24
... is that you projecting given that you can't maintain the story that everyone will be protected with herd immunity :shifty:

Its me ... with no medical training. And I don't ... or actually care (read give a fuck) about what story you think I should/can't maintain.

If you think all the vaccines are brewed up overnight .. and shipped to the various buyers around the world the next day .... you are very much mistaken.

The Medical fraternity have very strict rules on vaccine/medicine testing on humans ... BASED on the Nuremberg Code.

But the Code itself ... IS NOT LAW in ANY country.

FJRider
9th February 2022, 19:02
I thought you used the drive through?

Now that's a Happy Meal. (https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/southland/sexual-act-performed-front-mcdonalds-drive-thru-worker)

Nope ... in the front door. George street outlet.


But I was wearing my mask. So I guess that covers it ok.



Or not.

mashman
9th February 2022, 20:34
Thanks for linking to that random web site. It must be true and correct, it’s on the internet. You now have all the evidence you need to confirm the vast majority of scientists and doctors are wrong.

I present my own random website that is also true and correct. Finally we can sleep easy knowing the truth, it’s been a conspiracy all along.

https://www.um.edu.mt/think/the-earth-is-flat/

Cutting edge researchers from the University of Malta, Dr Harry Johnson, Prof. Anita Bath, and Dr Oliver Klosov have confirmed that there is evidence to suggest that the world is, in fact, flat. This discovery has come to the forefront from a longitudinal study spanning 25 years from over 50 leading universities around the world — beginning at the University of Malta

You didn't watch it did you, coz they haven't presented any evidence yet, they've simply made a large number of rather serious accusations. They must have a book to sell.

mashman
9th February 2022, 20:40
Its me ... with no medical training. And I don't ... or actually care (read give a fuck) about what story you think I should/can't maintain.

If you think all the vaccines are brewed up overnight .. and shipped to the various buyers around the world the next day .... you are very much mistaken.

The Medical fraternity have very strict rules on vaccine/medicine testing on humans ... BASED on the Nuremberg Code.

But the Code itself ... IS NOT LAW in ANY country.

Not sure why you're in such a tiz. Hope you get over it. lol@vaccines produced overnight. lol@very strict rules based on Nuremberg Code and still thinking that I said that the Nuremberg Code was law. It's ok, I'll care for you.

FJRider
9th February 2022, 20:40
I see that you've edited the post where there was a missing quote and added some commentary.

With multi-Quotes .. it happens sometimes .. My fault for not doing a preview of my post before I submitted the reply. I've seen YOU do it too.

Whats your problem with that .??


I'll skip the last couple of posts for the sake of cross-post multi quoting.

You mean the two that accused ME of two different issues.

When do you intend to retract THOSE two (as yet) unproven claims ... ???

Kickaha
10th February 2022, 06:27
Nuremberg Code usurps national rules every day of the week. When something is 99.x% survivable and it is considered a threat to the extent that national rules are invoked in the face of such legally binding criteria............


and still thinking that I said that the Nuremberg Code was law. It's ok, I'll care for you.

No you didn't say it was law but you said it usurps National rules and is legally binding criteria, so just what is it you were trying to say again ? because you were wrong on both of those counts the same as every other muppet who mentioned the Nuremburg code in relation to this

Kendog
10th February 2022, 06:47
You didn't watch it did you, coz they haven't presented any evidence yet, they've simply made a large number of rather serious accusations. They must have a book to sell.

They are selling something all right, and a small number of people (you for example) have bought it.
Just like the small number of flat earth people.

TheDemonLord
10th February 2022, 08:34
With multi-Quotes .. it happens sometimes .. My fault for not doing a preview of my post before I submitted the reply. I've seen YOU do it too.

Whats your problem with that .??

Generally, I only edit my posts when I've made a formatting mistake - if I'm adding additional stuff, as a courtesy - I tend to add it at the bottom with a

Edit:

blah blah blah.

I'm happy to take it as an honest mistake.


You mean the two that accused ME of two different issues.

When do you intend to retract THOSE two (as yet) unproven claims ... ???

I'll happily retract, if you retract also - namely that I don't go reporting users to the Mods and nor have I rep-bombed 'like you do with me'.

FJRider
10th February 2022, 09:09
... I'm happy to take it as an honest mistake.

My wife required my attention at the time ... priorities you understand.



I'll happily retract, if you retract also - namely that I don't go reporting users to the Mods and nor have I rep-bombed 'like you do with me'.

I've posted the ACTUAL posts with YOUR accusations ... Please post SAME with MY actual quotes ... where I stated anything you've suggested I have.

It's that simple.

TheDemonLord
10th February 2022, 09:24
My wife required my attention at the time ... priorities you understand.

Can't type at the same time? :laugh:


I've posted the ACTUAL posts with YOUR accusations ... Please post SAME with MY actual quotes ... where I stated anything you've suggested I have.

It's that simple.

As I have done, multiple times and referenced the quote.

Perhaps you skipped that part of my post due to your attention being elsewhere - but it's poor form to demand that which has already been provided.

But because I'm charitable:

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/188175-The-journey-that-COVID-19-will-take-us-on?p=1131196568#post1131196568

It's right at the bottom - with your 2 original posts linked and quoted.

So, do I (or have ever):


complain like a spoilt two year old to the site Moderators ... about how offended you are ...

And



Have they received any from you for abuse of a member .. ??
Just like you do with me you mean .. ??

'Just like you do with me you mean'

Have I ever Rep-Bombed you? Since that reply was specifically about when I was rep-bombed?

That last one is the specific accusation, the other is an inference (but clear enough that I feel warrants rebuke).

Both things I have not, nor have ever done.

mashman
10th February 2022, 09:25
No you didn't say it was law but you said it usurps National rules and is legally binding criteria, so just what is it you were trying to say again ? because you were wrong on both of those counts the same as every other muppet who mentioned the Nuremburg code in relation to this

And I explained how that usurping works. Not gonna bother again.

mashman
10th February 2022, 09:40
They are selling something all right, and a small number of people (you for example) have bought it.
Just like the small number of flat earth people.

I did. I bought their science over the science you chose as your authority, because when I compared the 2 (one has to know both sides in order to have a qualified judgement, or one is simply being a parrot), only 1 sides' science could/can actually back the claims that any side is saying. The vaccine has become a jab despite the testing claiming that it would give 90+% protection for life after 2 doses, nope 3, nope 4, and maybe for 6 months, well, best go every 4 months, nah, make it 3........... When reality doesn't match testing, mistakes have been made, or lies have been sold. The theory behind mRNa technology is actually quite amazing and in theory again, should have worked a charm. It didn't. Why not? And why are we still pushing like little children to force someone to do something that little evidence backs, outwith the evidence from the circus that clearly brought you a shit product, (2 or 3 companies, not entire countries and governments), indemnified by governments, with the field results under lock and key for 55 years (not sure if that decision has been granted yet)? And you go for flat earth. Of course you do, because you have no real evidence, just the evidence of those who got it wrong.

mashman
10th February 2022, 11:33
Some exceptional reasoning that still holds 18 months later, coz it certainly hasn't been resolved in that time... well, not in NZ anyway.


The virus don't care about fair.

But, since we are not viruses, let me address your concern about the alleged unfairness of hindsight.

First, and importantly, the pandemic was spreading in January and February. We were generally all in agreement by March to 'flatten the curve'. One would expect good planning and preparation to do that; with solid stocks of PPE, pre-flight checking, after-arrival checking, isolation guidelines for the vulnerable and quarantine locations for the still-allowed-inbound, to be gotten ready and tested.

This didn't happen.

Second and actually more damning: when it became clear that there was no curve to flatten, the curve was not taking off, what did our lords and mistresses decree? No change in the strategy.

But thirdly and this is serious: recall what was bruited and spruiked abroad the land by Ye Media.

Modelling that a professor of physics in New Zealand provided to the Prime Minister was said to convince her that 80,000 people were going to die if she didn't listen to her friends from London and lock New Zealand down now. So, our NZ politicians and technocrats misapplied a completely inaccurate theoretical model developed by a (discredited) professor of mathematical biology in the UK and adapted by a professor of physics in New Zealand, to us humans encountering a variant of a known virus species, using the most scary miscalculated outcome as a stick with which to beat us into our own homes to be imprisoned. At very short notice, and entirely without appropriate planning as outlined above.

Ardern 19th March:

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has dismissed speculation on social media that the Government is poised to announce a nationwide lockdown to combat coronavirus.

"We will share with you the most up-to-date information daily. You can trust us as a source of that information," she told reporters in Rotorua. "Do feel free to visit covid19.govt.nz - otherwise dismiss anything else. We will continue to be your single source of truth."

Bloomfield 19th March:

"A lockdown is not something that I’ve hear discussed by anybody. We've seen other countries do that when they have a very high proportion of cases with committee spread".

Event horizon 24th March 24th:

Level 4 Lockdown.

So, pick your option.

Either they lied about NEVER discussing a lockdown or they changed the ENTIRE response of our country because of a model and a chat with Ardern's 'friends' in Blairland.

When friends overseas painted a bleak picture of the advancing pall of coronavirus, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern listened.

"[They were] saying, 'Go, just shut down, because here I am in lockdown with thousands of people dying. Just shut down'," she tells Stuff's Coronavirus NZ podcast.

It helped make the decision to "go hard and go early", to close New Zealand's borders and enforce a lockdown.

***

Where are we now? Still pursuing the same economy-killing strategy.

And what is the disease like now we know more?

On September 23, the new best estimate infection fatality rate by the CDC in the for the ages 20 to 49 is 0.02%.

That's a 99.98% survival rate.

Estimated survival rates by all ages from the CDC
Ages 0 to 19: 99.997%
20-49: 99.98%
50-69: 99.5%
70+: 94.6%.

This is not the Global Killer we were locked down for.

We should be able to Go About Our Lives with washing, distancing, isolation and quarantine in proportionate measure.


Hmmm. Let me put it another way.

If the pandemic was / is a lethal and as contagious as advertised we would not be debating its severity.

Many people would be sick, a large number would be in hospital and a lot more would be dead or in Intensive Care.

The unpoliced Burn-Loot-Murder protests would have spread contagion throughout the Auckland isthmus, and the Sturgis motorcycle rally would have done the same throughout the states contiguous with and adjacent to South Dakota.

Hospitals would be full and large percentages of health care workers inside and outside the hospitals would be ill, and / or quarantining themselves from their families and others; their occupational mortality rate would be in double figures. (Many senior medical staff are like me - well over 60, overweight, and with co-morbidities).

Supermarket workers would, sadly, have made up a large % of casualties so far as would hotel staff in quarantine hotels.

You and I would know personally people in hospital, in ICU, or in the funeral home as a result of WuFlu.

And if we used the same methodology of assigning deaths to the yearly StandardFlu as we are doing with the ChiWuFlu, the annual flu death rate (i.e. by counting everybody who died with flu-like symptoms, or from other causes but with a positive flu test in the last 30, 60, or 90 days, and so on) then our annual seasonal flu death rate in 2019 would have been at least 2 orders of magnitude greater. i.e. 50,000 not 500.

And of course if Ardern and Bloomfield and PieWatts and Hipkisser & Co really believed their rhetoric of risk, they would distancing themselves from each other, let alone getting selfies up close and personal with the great unwashed.

None of the above is happening.

***

The reason I have kept tabs on both the science and the spruiking from the beginning i.e. January, is because at the outset, I said to myself, "Self, WTF. This must be serious. Because the ChiComs just trashed the economy of their whole province. They've locked down first 5, then 9, then 15 million people in a couple of weeks! What are they so scared of? What do they know that they are not telling?"

Also, I worked in Asia during the first SARS outbreak; and in Africa during the last-but-one Ebola outbreak; and I thought "Oh F, here we go, the Full Captain Trips experience is possible."

Then as I watched and listened and read - lo and behold, it came to pass that...

1. The ChiComs forbade domestic travel from Wuhan while letting all international travel out of Wuhan continue for the CNY global dispora. Q.E.D.
2. The initially frighteningly high CFR (case fatality rate) kept going down as more tests were done.
3. Major political, financial and PR incentives were globally put in place to assign deaths to ChiVirus whenever possible.
4. The old people were disproportionately hit (Italy, New York, Belgium etc). But the annualized death rate for the over-70s remained relatively flat.
5. Politicians loved them their new controls over normies - but did not try anything with BLM, iwi, gangs etc.
...there's more of course.


You don't, you know, need to be a weatherman to see which way the wind blows.

Autech
10th February 2022, 11:48
Just went and got my 3rd dose. Hoping Jacinda will now let us go about our business as its pointless being immunised against something I'm never going to come into contact with (that said I've got work in an MIQ coming up) but the comment stands for the rest of NZ.

Keep mandates and restrictions for the anti vax mob and let the rest of us get on with life.

Got the Stuff stream of the protest up on my 2nd screen hoping to see someone get a baton to the face, hasn't happened yet sadly but the day is young :D

FJRider
10th February 2022, 12:17
Can't type at the same time? :laugh:

My hands were busy ... :whistle:


As I have done, multiple times and referenced the quote.


Perhaps you skipped that part of my post due to your attention being elsewhere - but it's poor form to demand that which has already been provided.

But because I'm charitable:


I assume this is your "Proof of Abuse accusation" ... :lol:


What's baaeing offended .. ???
Have they received any from you for abuse of a member .. ??
Just like you do with me you mean .. ??

The last line is in reference to the claims of abuse you make of me. I provide (Quoted) and clear proof.

Your lack of understanding that CLEAR Indisputable proof of wrongdoing is required for a complaint to be made.

Your interpretation of the above quote is a little off that.

HOWEVER ... feel free to make a formal complaint to the Moderation team in this regard. They probably need a laugh ... :kiollingme



Until then ... any proof regarding those TWO posts I quoted you ... and your accusations in them ... ??

TheDemonLord
10th February 2022, 12:49
Just went and got my 3rd dose. Hoping Jacinda will now let us go about our business as its pointless being immunised against something I'm never going to come into contact with (that said I've got work in an MIQ coming up) but the comment stands for the rest of NZ.

Keep mandates and restrictions for the anti vax mob and let the rest of us get on with life.

Got the Stuff stream of the protest up on my 2nd screen hoping to see someone get a baton to the face, hasn't happened yet sadly but the day is young :D

Don't worry after you get your 364th Booster - then we will give you your freedoms back...

FJRider
10th February 2022, 13:00
Just went and got my 3rd dose. Hoping Jacinda will now let us go about our business as its pointless being immunised against something I'm never going to come into contact with (that said I've got work in an MIQ coming up) but the comment stands for the rest of NZ.

If you ask any of those that got a positive test result ... of having any of covid variants ... if they ever thought they'd ever get it themselves ... I think you will get the resounding reply of NO from ALL of them.

Go figure ...

FJRider
10th February 2022, 13:02
Don't worry after you get your 364th Booster - then we will give you your freedoms back...

After the 500th ... most will stop caring.



Something to look forward too ... ;)