The journey that COVID-19 will take us on

[Kickaha]

you'd rather millions continue to die despite having read the paper that showed just how to save them. PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What are the millions dying from ?

[TheDemonLord]

Haha, there was something above indicating tdl said he had spoken to some girls.

Whats the chance? :lol:

About the same chance that the people who have me on 'ignore' will obsessively post about me...

[TheDemonLord]

A regular customer buying food ... they have to talk to him.

They don't have to like him.

They clearly like me enough to talk to me about issues other than what sauce I like on my Sandwhich....

[TheDemonLord]

Same chance that next time he will get meatballs unrefrigerated and chicken undercooked or reheated and prepped by unwashed ungloved hands after they take a dump with having diarrhea with an unwashed ecoli riddled lettuce as he's told them they don't need to obey those govt hygiene safety rules just because as its a govt mandate as "hes a libertarian"

Indeed.

Then I take my business elsewhere.

As does everyone else.

Then they loose their job.

Then they go Bankrupt.

So, without any intervention by any government department, they are inherently self-motivated to make sure that they provide food that is safe to consume.

And here's how we know this: Restaurants, Pubs and other businesses that served food to the public existed long before Government Hygiene rules....

[TheDemonLord]

AS I said ... maybe their management Covid protocols weren't up to required standard (as per your own admission). If they didn't shoot themselves in the foot (so to speak) ... maybe they were just unlucky. I'm personally guessing the former. I have been known to be wrong about some things.

But ... it's all the Governments fault. It MUST be ... surely.

Bugger eh .. !!

Or.... Just throwing this out there....

The Covid protocols don't work. Remember, I'm fully vaccinated. As are all the staff. The staff all wear masks - and yet still they managed to catch it and spread it.


Bugger. And I wonder if the girls you spoke to ... got ten days holiday pay. Ten days pay spent in ten days ... must have been good days ... :killingme

They got ten days of holiday pay... out of their Holiday allowance.


If they just couldn't work because the business was shut down ... because some staff had to self isolate. Doesn't actually mean ANY of the staff actually did have covid. As I recall ... close contacts have to self isolate. IF ... Somebody that was LATER found to have covid admitted visiting the place (even with no covid pass asked for maybe) ... and THEN due to Government Covid protocol ... The shop got the ten day stand down period ... and the staff on that day ... got to spend that time in self isolation.

TL;DR it's the Governments fault, as I said all along.


Morality is a big deal for some ... but only for he individual that thinks they're being hard done by ... by somebody. Or even thinking they might be missing out on something they want ... that "Everybody else" is having. And it's (obviously) THEIR morals that are wrong.

Me not so much ... I'd happily get you deep in the shit (am trying to think how I could) ... and I wouldn't loose a minutes sleep over it.

And I'm just one individual admitting that. I bet there's a few with similar "Morals" ... ;)

See how morals really work ... :laugh:

Bullshit. The most Moral advancements in human history have been made on behalf of someone else, by appealing a set of Principles.

What you've described isn't Morals, it's vindictiveness.


Personally ... I think term morality .. is (more than a little) overrated. Everybody has a different version THEY think is correct.

However, if you look at how the Individual treats others, you can infer their sets of Morals - and things get interesting when you apply the standards they set for others to themselves.

If the person is happy with how they are being treated, you know them to adhere to their set of Morals.


I'm sure your chats make their day.

Do they give you a discount .. ??

They don't... but not because they've never offered... but because I refuse to accept it.

One of my Morals.

[mashman]

What are the millions dying from ?

They're dying from complications associated with a virus that had a scientifically proven cure available in Aug 2020. They're also dying from an injection that doesn't work according to the products own safety data. There's also those who livelihoods have been fucked because of the lies sold with the no job no jab shit. Something that still exists today despite the manufacturers own data. That economic fallout stuff likely costs a few lives too... and all because they ignored a cure and went for something that was known bullshit from minute 1... but hey, at least it's popular.

[pete376403]

Indeed.

Then I take my business elsewhere.

As does everyone else.

Then they loose their job.

Then they go Bankrupt.

So, without any intervention by any government department, they are inherently self-motivated to make sure that they provide food that is safe to consume.

And here's how we know this: Restaurants, Pubs and other businesses that served food to the public existed long before Government Hygiene rules....

Sort of - without the regs every food outlet operated on pretty much the same standards, ie none. You ate out and took your chances. I experienced this myself - got a drink (bottled water, sealed by the bottler) at a roadside stall in Thailand. Had violent shits for some time afterward. Stuck to bottled beer, opened in front of me, after that.

[mashman]

5 in the house. 1st tested positive last Monday. 5th tested positive today. It came into the house via a fully vaccinated front-line worker. But jabs work ... make sure you get yours so you can keep your job even though the jab is beyond proven to be do nothing in the real world. And remember, it's ok to deny the science with wilful ignorance... and completely dismiss what you have been seeing with your own eyes that's contrary to the lies sold at the beginning of the pandemic. It's only other people who die or get injured, not you.

[pete376403]

5 in the house. 1st tested positive last Monday. 5th tested positive today. It came into the house via a fully vaccinated front-line worker. But jabs work ... make sure you get yours so you can keep your job even though the jab is beyond proven to be do nothing in the real world. And remember, it's ok to deny the science with wilful ignorance... and completely dismiss what you have been seeing with your own eyes that's contrary to the lies sold at the beginning of the pandemic. It's only other people who die or get injured, not you.

Let us know how it goes, including whether or not you end up in hospital, and if that progresses to ICU, (or beyond)

[mashman]

Let us know how it goes, including whether or not you end up in hospital, and if that progresses to ICU, (or beyond)

As my Wife explained to the doctors this morning, we're all good. Thanks. Mild headache. Sporadic temp control issues accompanied by slight lethargy. Fucked up sleep in my instance, and only 1 in the house with any form of sniffles that would make one think that one was fighting off a respiratory illness. There will be no need for a hospital or indeed a doctors visit.

[TheDemonLord]

Sort of - without the regs every food outlet operated on pretty much the same standards, ie none. You ate out and took your chances. I experienced this myself - got a drink (bottled water, sealed by the bottler) at a roadside stall in Thailand. Had violent shits for some time afterward. Stuck to bottled beer, opened in front of me, after that.

So, the Moral of the Story is to drink more beer? :drinkup:

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/883/586/63f.jpg

[Kickaha]

But jabs work ... make sure you get yours so you can keep your job even though the jab is beyond proven to be do nothing in the real world.

The science says otherwise


And remember, it's ok to deny the science with wilful ignorance...

You'd know because it's exactly what you're doing

[mashman]

You'd know because it's exactly what you're doing

That would be the case if Pfizers documentation didn't state the same thing. They have backtracked on every claim they said they had evidence for. But sure, it's my fault.

[mulletman]

That would be the case if Pfizers documentation didn't state the same thing. They have backtracked on every claim they said they had evidence for. But sure, it's my fault.

Pfizer post marketing PDF , in particular of interest are the last 8 pages of adverse events of interest it is a list that doctors are suppose to refer to if a patient complains of a reaction to the vaccine if its on the list it needs to be reported back to Pfizer. This was held back by pfizer until a court order made them start to release their dodgy documents. Pfizer wanted to release their thousands of documents after 75years they've been given till the end of 2022.

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

[husaberg]

That would be the case if Pfizers documentation didn't state the same thing. They have backtracked on every claim they said they had evidence for. But sure, it's my fault.

Are you aware why the flu vaccine gets updated every year and why vaccines lose effectiveness over time or why other vaccines for viruses are so hard to keep effective ?
or are you just willfully ignorant?

plus try us more about this covid cure you have repeatidly claimed exits.....


They're dying from complications associated with a virus that had a scientifically proven cure available in Aug 2020.

R650R claims a different cure, is he wrong and you are right or both wrong.

only problem is

One of the world's largest studies - the Recovery trial run by Oxford University - has involved 11,000 patients with coronavirus in hospitals across the UK and included testing hydroxychloroquine's effectiveness against the disease, along with other potential treatments.

It concluded that "there is no beneficial effect of hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalised with Covid-19




A year after the treatment trial launched in five cities, Johnston can say hydroxychloroquine had no effect in treating people with COVID-19. The results of the remote randomized, placebo-controlled trial were published Feb. 27 in E Clinical Medicine.

The trial was seeking 630 participants, but trial enrollment was stopped in August at 231 participants due to very few people having progressive COVID-19. The primary clinical outcome of the study was progression of COVID-19 to pneumonia or hospitalization, and time to symptom resolution was a secondary outcome.

“There was no faster resolution of symptoms among people receiving hydroxychloroquine or hydroxychloroquine/azithromycin compared to placebo.” Johnston said.

The data are consistent with multiple other randomized trials that have shown that hydroxychloroquine has no benefit in the outpatient or inpatient setting for treatment of COVID-19.


]Early on in the pandemic, hydroxychloroquine was suggested as a possible prevention method or treatment for COVID-19, given evidence of in-vitro inhibition of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2),2 propelling this mainstay treatment of rheumatic diseases to prominence and controversy. However, multiple high-quality studies subsequently showed no benefit of hydroxychloroquine use as post-exposure prophylaxis3 or as a COVID-19 treatment

Dr. Peter McCullough, who was fired from the Baylor University Medical Center for spreading misinformation about COVID.

The largest nonprofit health system in Texas has secured a temporary restraining order against cardiologist Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, a COVID-19 vaccine skeptic who allegedly continued to claim an affiliation with Baylor


The largest nonprofit health system in Texas has secured a temporary restraining order against cardiologist Peter A. McCullough, MD, MPH, a COVID-19 vaccine skeptic who allegedly continued to claim an affiliation with Baylor


The general consensus in the medical community now is that there's not enough data to recommend ivermectin for use as a COVID-19 treatment, said Dr. Adrian Hernandez, professor of medicine and vice dean and executive director of Duke Clinical Research Institute, who is leading the largest ivermectin trial ever to see if three existing medications used for other conditions could help in the early treatment of COVID-19 patients outside of the hospital.

The nationwide study, which is randomized, has enrolled 3,000 patients so far and has plans to enroll 15,000 patients overall. To date, about 1,500 participants are being treated with ivermectin in the trial, with patients in all 50 states.

"Right now, there's not any suggestion of, does it do better than these other treatments that have proven evidence around it now?
Yet Dr Weinstein claimed that results from a recent study suggested that "ivermectin alone, if properly utilised, is capable of driving this pathogen to extinction
The study being discussed was reviewed by PolitiFact and found to be conducted by researchers with significant ties to the BIRD (British Ivermectin Recommendation Development) group, despite there being no acknowledgement of a conflict of interest.
"In a disease like COVID-19, where the large majority of people -- whether they receive a treatment or not -- will improve, just giving someone a drug and then improving doesn't mean that the drug made them improve,"

[mashman]

Pfizer post marketing PDF , in particular of interest are the last 8 pages of adverse events of interest it is a list that doctors are suppose to refer to if a patient complains of a reaction to the vaccine if its on the list it needs to be reported back to Pfizer. This was held back by pfizer until a court order made them start to release their dodgy documents. Pfizer wanted to release their thousands of documents after 75years they've been given till the end of 2022.

https://phmpt.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/5.3.6-postmarketing-experience.pdf

Dr JC did a simple overview of one of the primary papers including the 8 pages you're talking about. I don't find his confusion very comforting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YOD9drZasM

[husaberg]

Dr JC did a simple overview of one of the primary papers including the 8 pages you're talking about. I don't find his confusion very comforting.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YOD9drZasM

DR john Campbell has a PHD in teaching nursing..........but not in medicine.

My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focused on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally.

His disclamer
These media including videos, book, e book, articles, podcasts are not peer-reviewed. They should never replace individual clinical judgement from your own health care provider....

research has been proven to be faked and fraudulent before .....

Take, for instance, the former physician Andrew Wakefield’s fraudulent research – published in The Lancet, but subsequently retracted – which claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism. This was a clear and serious breach of research integrity, and although it caused a lot of harm, it also led to thousands of studies both refuting the fraudulent research,

[mulletman]

Ivermectin looks promising to reduce C19 symptoms, hospitalisations and death

https://www.cureus.com/articles/82162-ivermectin-prophylaxis-used-for-covid-19-a-citywide-prospective-observational-study-of-223128-subjects-using-propensity-score-matching

[Berries]

A mate tried that but he ended up feeling a little hoarse.

[husaberg]

Ivermectin looks promising to reduce C19 symptoms, hospitalisations and death

https://www.cureus.com/articles/82162-ivermectin-prophylaxis-used-for-covid-19-a-citywide-prospective-observational-study-of-223128-subjects-using-propensity-score-matching
Sounds compelling..... until you look a little deeper

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/scicheck-evidence-still-lacking-to-support-ivermectin-as-treatment-for-covid-19/

The study is not a randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial, and it has multiple limitations. Health Feedback fact-checked stories published by the Gateway Pundit, Zero Hedge and the Blaze about an earlier draft of the study that was posted as a preprint in December.

“The study contained multiple methodological flaws that call the reliability of its conclusions into question. For example, there are indications that many people assigned to the ivermectin treatment group didn’t take the drug consistently, or stopped taking it after a while. It is therefore unclear whether any observed effect in this group can be reliably attributed to ivermectin treatment,” Health Feedback concluded.

In a Twitter thread on Dec. 15, epidemiologist Gideon Meyerowitz-Katz detailed some of the study’s problems, including conflicts of interest and lack of controls for important confounders, such as variables that could increase the risk of getting COVID-19.

The study was then peer-reviewed and published on Jan. 15 in Cureus, an open access online medical journal that allows researchers to publish studies for free and faster than the traditional peer-reviewed journals — 11 days in this case. But some of the problems remain, as PolitiFact.com explained.

The study analyzed data of a citywide COVID-19 prevention program using ivermectin in Itajaí, Brazil, from July to December 2020, when vaccines were not available. The whole population of the city was offered ivermectin, to be taken for two consecutive days every 15 days. Out of 159,561 residents, 113,845 used ivermectin and 45,716 did not. But according to a statement released by the city of Itajaí in January 2021, the numbers of voluntary users fell with time — 138,216 took the first dose; two weeks later 93,970 took the second and third doses, and only 8,312 took the fourth and fifth. “That is, there was no biweekly continuity of the use of ivermectin, as recommended,” the statement said.

A list of the authorized studies in Brazil using ivermectin as treatment for COVID-19 — provided to the Brazilian fact-checking coalition Comprova by the Brazilian National Research Ethics Commission — said the study “was registered with a sample of 9,956 participants.”

As we said, results of multiple large clinical trials on the safety and efficacy of the use of ivermectin to treat COVID-19 will be available in the coming months. They will provide a more definitive answer as to whether ivermectin is beneficial, or not, in treating COVID-19 patients. But for now, studies haven’t found the drug to be beneficial, and health officials have warned people not to self-medicate.

After more than 80 studies have evaluated the use of ivermectin, an antiparasitic medication, to treat or prevent COVID-19 in humans, the National Institutes of Health, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the World Health Organization have determined there is insufficient evidence to recommend using ivermectin to treat COVID-19. As we’ve reported, large clinical trials to determine its safety and effectiveness are ongoing, and results are expected in about a month.

But so far, randomized controlled trials have shown no evidence of a clinical benefit for ivermectin. And the medication has not been approved or authorized by the Food and Drug Administration to prevent or treat COVID-19

Yet, some people keep touting the effectiveness of the medication against COVID-19. In February, we fact-checked a misleading claim about ivermectin and the NIH, as well as false claims that a Japanese company had found ivermectin had worked in a phase 3 clinical trial, which was based on an inaccurate news article. On March 6, John Campbell, who has a doctorate in nursing education but is not a physician, posted a video about the drug that amassed nearly a million views. It incorrectly presented two weak studies as “powerful” and “overwhelming” evidence that the drug works to combat the disease.

“Why isn’t this in the newspapers?” Campbell asks his viewers after reviewing preliminary results of a study that was later canceled by its authors and the results of a flawed study. “This is why I think ivermectin is going to be one of the big scandals of this [pandemic]. It’s almost as if information has been deliberately suppressed throughout the pandemic, to be quite honest.”

On March 14, Campbell replaced the original video with a new version that eliminates the discussion of the first study.

[mulletman]

Sounds compelling..... until you look a little deeper

https://www.factcheck.org/2022/03/scicheck-evidence-still-lacking-to-support-ivermectin-as-treatment-for-covid-19/


factcheck.org have only 1 credible trained scientist the rest are only journalists that cover news stories.

Who funds factcheck ? A group that holds 1.8 billion in Johnson and Johnson stock

https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/06/18/factcheck-org-funded-by-johnson-johnson-1-8-billion-lobby-group/


Ivermectin study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

[husaberg]

factcheck.org have only 1 credible trained scientist the rest are only journalists that cover news stories.

Who funds factcheck ? A group that holds 1.8 billion in Johnson and Johnson stock

https://cleverjourneys.com/2021/06/18/factcheck-org-funded-by-johnson-johnson-1-8-billion-lobby-group/

by funded you mean a guy thats a billionaire also gave them $63,000. out of all the other money they got from funding.
Ivermectin study

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
Sounds like a conspiracy.......
https://www.factcheck.org/our-funding/


"your study" was previously discussed and debunked

i would rate Jessica McDonald . She trained as a scientist, receiving her Ph.D. in immunology from Yale University in 2013.
Over mashman or a nurse.

[FJRider]

..... you'd rather millions continue to die despite having read the paper that showed just how to save them. PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In New Zealand ... 498 thousand cases ... and 163 deaths (last updated 23 hours ago).


Where are the millions continuing to die .. ??



Looks like OUR Government got it right ... if only 163 died in the entire pandemic .. :killingme

[FJRider]

They clearly like me enough to talk to me about issues other than what sauce I like on my Sandwhich....

You're a customer ... they have to pander to the customer.


Then they come back. Times are tough a business is slow.


Did you leave them a tip ... ???

[FJRider]

Or.... Just throwing this out there....

Just throwing this out there ...

Nowhere in your original post stated that ANY of the staff had actually caught the covid virus. Stand down can occur if they are close contacts of someone that DOES have covid.

OR ... DID staff there actually have Covid ... ??


They got ten days of holiday pay... out of their Holiday allowance.

You get Holiday pay included in wages ... or a set number of days paid per year of Annual Leave. You don't get
ten days "Holiday pay out of "Your" Holiday allowance.

More likely ... their boss paid them out of the Governments funding for exactly that.


TL;DR it's the Governments fault, as I said all along.

Them's the rules though ... Nobody likes rules that work against them.


Just throwing this out there ...

If more people obeyed the road rules ... and I don't mean just the speed limit ... more peoples loved one's would still be alive today.



What you've described isn't Morals, it's vindictiveness.

If I (OR YOU) allow it to happen ... it's due to my (or your) MORALS.


However, if you look at how the Individual treats others, you can infer their sets of Morals - and things get interesting when you apply the standards they set for others to themselves.

If you see others being vindictive ... you can indeed infer as to what morals they might have.

It's called selective morality. And I bet you've also been guilty of exactly that ... on occasion ... :laugh:


If the person is happy with how they are being treated, you know them to adhere to their set of Morals.

How I am treated (by anybody) ... does not infer what set morals I adhere to ... or personally hold.


They don't... but not because they've never offered... but because I refuse to accept it.

One of my Morals.

You have more than ONE ... who knew ... :scratch:

[mashman]

In New Zealand ... 498 thousand cases ... and 163 deaths (last updated 23 hours ago).

Where are the millions continuing to die .. ??

Looks like OUR Government got it right ... if only 163 died in the entire pandemic .. :killingme

Such a sad fuck thing to say.

[FJRider]

A mate tried that but he ended up feeling a little hoarse.

Did he get it from the Vet .. ??

[TheDemonLord]

You're a customer ... they have to pander to the customer.

Then they come back. Times are tough a business is slow.
Did you leave them a tip ... ???

I definitely left them a tip....









Don't vote for Jacinda.

[TheDemonLord]

Just throwing this out there ...

Nowhere in your original post stated that ANY of the staff had actually caught the covid virus. Stand down can occur if they are close contacts of someone that DOES have covid.

OR ... DID staff there actually have Covid ... ??

One of them had Covid.


You get Holiday pay included in wages ... or a set number of days paid per year of Annual Leave. You don't get
ten days "Holiday pay out of "Your" Holiday allowance.

More likely ... their boss paid them out of the Governments funding for exactly that.

Just like above - you're having to invent scenarios (to which you aren't privy to all the information) in order to try prove that I'm wrong - which comes across as silly.

They said that they had to use their holiday to cover the time off.


Them's the rules though ... Nobody likes rules that work against them.

Just throwing this out there ...

If more people obeyed the road rules ... and I don't mean just the speed limit ... more peoples loved one's would still be alive today.

And if in order to drive a car, you had to fill out an application form, collect your papers, pay for a designated police officer to sit in the passenger seat and get a full COF check done before setting off, even more would be alive.

What level of Tyranny are you willing to endure to hypothetically save a life?


If I (OR YOU) allow it to happen ... it's due to my (or your) MORALS.

If you see others being vindictive ... you can indeed infer as to what morals they might have.

It's called selective morality. And I bet you've also been guilty of exactly that ... on occasion ... :laugh:

I've generally been quite consistent - big on Natural Rights, big on supporting people on principle even if I don't like them, pragmatic on there being a degree of grey in all things.


You have more than ONE ... who knew ... :scratch:

[pete376403]

And if in order to drive a car, you had to fill out an application form, collect your papers, pay for a designated police officer to sit in the passenger seat and get a full COF check done before setting off, even more would be alive.
What level of Tyranny are you willing to endure to hypothetically save a life?.

In order to get a licence to drive ("your papers") you do have to: fill out an application form, provide forms of identity, provide proof of health (eyesight), pay for a designated person (used to be a Police but now an authorised tester) to sit in the passenger seat and the car does have to have a WOF (COF applies to heavy vehicles) check done before setting off on the test. I assume you tolerated that level of tyranny at the time?

[TheDemonLord]

In order to get a licence to drive ("your papers") you do have to: fill out an application form, provide forms of identity, provide proof of health (eyesight), pay for a designated person (used to be a Police but now an authorised tester) to sit in the passenger seat and the car does have to have a WOF (COF applies to heavy vehicles) check done before setting off on the test. I assume you tolerated that level of tyranny at the time?

good point, I really should have been more diligent to add the word 'everytime' :lol:

[R650R]

Dr JC did a simple overview of one of the primary papers including the 8 pages you're talking about. I don't find his confusion very comforting.



I like his analysis of covid trends (cause that’s mostly what he does, charts where it’s goung what works etc)
It’s a pity some people here don’t have the patience to watch long enough to realise that he’s one of their own....

He’s PRO vax
Pro masks
Pro distancing etc....

And he always references his source material on screen.

I guess it’s just too much hardcfacts for some people lol

[pritch]

Okay, taking that on face value - posting Government data when you are no longer a government employee is a big no-no.


You don't think she knew that?

[FJRider]

Don't vote for Jacinda.

I probably might. She has no real competition in the running ... it's worked for me so far ... :bleh:

[pete376403]

They're dying from complications associated with a virus that had a scientifically proven cure available in Aug 2020. They're also dying from an injection that doesn't work according to the products own safety data. There's also those who livelihoods have been fucked because of the lies sold with the no job no jab shit. Something that still exists today despite the manufacturers own data. That economic fallout stuff likely costs a few lives too... and all because they ignored a cure and went for something that was known bullshit from minute 1... but hey, at least it's popular.


https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/claims-that-millions-of-people-have-died-from-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-unfounded/

[FJRider]

One of them had Covid.

That's handy. Even if they didn't get it "At Work" ... the outlet would have got the big clean ... another cost to management I guess ... :whistle:


Just like above - you're having to invent scenarios (to which you aren't privy to all the information) in order to try prove that I'm wrong - which comes across as silly.

Well ... it was silly enough to cause you to change your story by way of your reply ... in your next reply.

Funny that ... :killlingme


They said that they had to use their holiday to cover the time off.

Note .. you missed one word out when you last used that line. Makes all the difference.

You often change your story. I often expect it. Your posts are either tall tales or true ... well close to the truth.

Sometimes.

Maybe.


And if in order to drive a car, you had to fill out an application form, collect your papers, pay for a designated police officer to sit in the passenger seat and get a full COF check done before setting off, even more would be alive.

I had an MOT officer test me when I did all my license testing.


What level of Tyranny are you willing to endure to hypothetically save a life?

What level would your family have preferred ... if the life lost ... was yours.


I've generally been quite consistent - big on Natural Rights, big on supporting people on principle even if I don't like them, pragmatic on there being a degree of grey in all things.

Grey is the new (preferred) norm.


Neither ... Black OR white.


If it works for you ... :2thumbsup

[mashman]

https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/claims-that-millions-of-people-have-died-from-the-covid-19-vaccine-are-unfounded/

Did you have a point to go with that random fact-check that was totally unrequired?

[mashman]

I guess it’s just too much hardcfacts for some people lol

They got the jab and defend their own stupidity by blaming the unjabbed, despite the evidence. Ya can't reason yerself out of an argument that you never reasoned yourself into.

[pete376403]

Did you have a point to go with that random fact-check that was totally unrequired?

Mostly your statement that the covid vaccine has killed millions.

[mashman]

Mostly your statement that the covid vaccine has killed millions.

I never made that statement. Good to see you can't help yourself either.

[FJRider]

I never made that statement. Good to see you can't help yourself either.

That was in reply to this statement ...


Mostly your statement that the covid vaccine has killed millions.



So ... you weren't talking about vaccines in the statement below ... or ... you never made this statement ...


.... you'd rather millions continue to die despite having read the paper that showed just how to save them.


What do you think killed those millions then ... ?? What were you referring to ... if it wasn't the vaccines ... ???


And what was it that could have saved those millions ... ??


Is it your claim that the wrong vaccine was used from the beginning ... ??? Was it (or not ??) ... the vaccine(s) that continue to let people die ... ???


If the vaccine is your issue ... would the Covid death rate in New Zealand be any less ... with a different vaccine .. ?? ??


If the vaccine wasn't the real issue ... in your opinion ... what WAS .. ??





If so ... roughly (by your estimates) and in plain simple English (without abuse) ... how many had no need to die ... at least here in NZ ... ??

[husaberg]

I never made that statement. Good to see you can't help yourself either.

You also on multiple occasions made a statement that there is a cure for covid only that's completely false.

They're dying from complications associated with a virus that had a scientifically proven cure available in Aug 2020. They're also dying from an injection that doesn't work according to the products own safety data. There's also those who livelihoods have been fucked because of the lies sold with the no job no jab shit. Something that still exists today despite the manufacturers own data. That economic fallout stuff likely costs a few lives too... and all because they ignored a cure and went for something that was known bullshit from minute 1... but hey, at least it's popular.


'Pandemic' scientist makes breakthrough on Covid-19 cure (https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018740956/pandemic-scientist-makes-breakthrough-on-covid-19-cure)


Oh dear, another group of M.D's using treatments for Covid-19. In this case, the M.D. is talking to an Australian MP. They compare figures. A region in Oz: 7000 cases, about 450 in hospital and 100 dead. The case notes of the M.D.: 6000 cases, 4 hospitalisations and 0 dead.

You won't like what they use to achieve this remarkable scientific breakthrough, because you've been told not to... yet this guy claims that out of the 600,000 death in the U.S., he reckons about 420,000 could have been saved using his protocols. There's so much in there, including dosages, just in case someone gets a little iffy... but most of you just won't accept what this guy has done and can prove that he has done.

So, those who say that certain protocols don't work despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary are spreading misinformation that has killed millions over the last year or so. Some people even blame Donny McTrumpet for the deaths :killingme...... so filled with irony that I doubt the same people have the stones to take it back... let alone own just how fucking wrong they to the tune of millions of lives. Well fucking done humanity. Well fucking done.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhlYa1gowsU


oh look mashy messiah is now running for congress

yson announced his campaign at the event for the US Congress in the newly formed 25th District, which will encompass all of the Imperial Valley and parts of Riverside and San Bernardino counties. A table was located outside the restaurant to gather signatures to place his name on the ballot.

[mashman]

whatever

The paper I was referring to had fuck all to do with vaccines.

[FJRider]

The paper I was referring to had fuck all to do with vaccines.

I get it ... You don't really know.


You're just like tdl ... changing your story ... :laugh:


Good to know the vaccines aren't the issue then ... thanks for that at least ... :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

You don't think she knew that?

Kinda makes the whole 'I'm being persecuted by the Government' line a bit hollow then doesn't it...

[TheDemonLord]

I probably might. She has no real competition in the running ... it's worked for me so far ... :bleh:

Just wait, your time will come ;)

[mashman]

I get it ... You don't really know.

You're just like tdl ... changing your story ... :laugh:

Good to know the vaccines aren't the issue then ... thanks for that at least ... :yes:

Wrong.

Wrong.

Never said that either.

"If you don't know, ask. You will be a fool for the moment, but a wise man for the rest of your life." - Seneca.

Snake oil customers... yer all the same.

[FJRider]

Just wait, your time will come ;)

You wish ... :killingme

[FJRider]

Wrong.

Wrong.

Never said that either.

"If you don't know, ask. You will be a fool for the moment, but a wise man for the rest of your life." - Seneca.

Snake oil customers... yer all the same.

I could quote a few of my posts from the last few days .. of me asking.

You haven't.

So ... it's my opinion ... you are either full of shit ... or you simply can't produce anything (valid and provable) to back up your claims.


Personally ... I think there's a bit of both happening there ... but that's just my opinion.


Bluster and bullshit ... that's all you've got.


There does seem to a few others however ... that are not exactly enamored by your claims to date either.



Funny that ... :killingme

[mashman]

I could quote a few of my posts from the last few days .. of me asking.

You haven't.

So ... it's my opinion ... you are either full of shit ... or you simply can't produce anything (valid and provable) to back up your claims.


Personally ... I think there's a bit of both happening there ... but that's just my opinion.


Bluster and bullshit ... that's all you've got.


There does seem to a few others however ... that are not exactly enamored by your claims to date either.



Funny that ... :killingme

And the answers have been there all along, you simply couldn't resist but to translate them in a way that you don't consider them answers. You can continue in those circles and make up anything you like. It ain't never stopped any of you before. If you ask what I consider a pertinent question, I'll answer it. So far, you've ALL made assumptions based on a few words of an individual post. And you think you deserve further explanation of the truth :killingme....... PRICELESS!!!!!!!

You are ALL full of shit.

[TheDemonLord]

So, apparently now Vaccine Passports aren't needed under Red settings....

There are many many observations I could make....

[Ocean1]

So, apparently now Vaccine Passports aren't needed under Red settings....

There are many many observations I could make....

Perhaps "vaccine passports aren't needed now under red settings" is a fairer synopsis.

[FJRider]

Perhaps "vaccine passports aren't needed now under red settings" is a fairer synopsis.

From 11:59pm Friday, 25 March 2022 the traffic light settings are changing. The COVID-19 Protection Framework will be simpler. It will help us manage life with Omicron while reducing the impact of future outbreaks.

At Red:

there will be no limits for outdoor activities — like gatherings and events, and food and drink businesses — with My Vaccine Pass
there will be a 200-person limit for indoor gatherings and events with My Vaccine Pass
you do not need to wear a face mask outdoors
other face mask rules remain unchanged — face masks are required in most indoor settings
there is no requirement to scan in or for a business to display a QR code poster or have mandatory record keeping.

From 11:59pm on 4 April 2022, there will be no requirement to use My Vaccine Pass. Until 4 April, where My Vaccine Passes are not used, the current restrictions remain — but after this time, the new capacity limits will apply to everyone. Vaccine mandates will also be removed other than for health and disability sector workers, prison staff, and border and MIQ workers.

[FJRider]

So, apparently now Vaccine Passports aren't needed under Red settings....

There are many many observations I could make....

One observation I have is ... you didn't read it properly ...



From 11:59pm on 4 April 2022 ... there will be no requirement to use My Vaccine Pass. Until 4 April, where My Vaccine Passes are not used, the current restrictions remain — but after this time, the new capacity limits will apply to everyone. Vaccine mandates will also be removed other than for health and disability sector workers, prison staff, and border and MIQ workers.

[TheDemonLord]

Perhaps "vaccine passports aren't needed now under red settings" is a fairer synopsis.

My charitable interpretation has long since gone.

Why are we under a 'RED' settings if Vaccine passports aren't needed?

The obvious answer is that they were never needed.

The even more obvious answer is that this whole thing have been a charade.

[R650R]

So, apparently now Vaccine Passports aren't needed under Red settings....

There are many many observations I could make....

Well this govt made a big deal about flatten the curve and care for the vulnerable...and rolled out statistics faster than a real estate agent trying to tell you now is time to sell.... so a lot of us have taken note of stats and the various things they mean....

One things for sure if we believe everything they have told us and that is Jacinda only cares about one side of the Bell Curve. We were told even one death is too many... but on the downward side of the bell curve your death or illness is acceptable apparently....

I bet ya when GCSB read all the emails and Facebook accounts of the 2000 at Wellington they prob found each of those people prob had 50-100 friends that were silent majority supporters....
100,000 to 200,000 people is not to be dismissed when you extrapolate out further a likely half million out there completely sick of the over bearing control mechanisms. A potential 10% of voters.....

[sugilite]

My charitable interpretation has long since gone.

Why are we under a 'RED' settings if Vaccine passports aren't needed?

The obvious answer is that they were never needed.

The even more obvious answer is that this whole thing have been a charade.

It was only ever designed to be a stick to get the vaccination numbers up into the 90's, and from that perspective - it worked.

[Ocean1]

My charitable interpretation has long since gone.

Why are we under a 'RED' settings if Vaccine passports aren't needed?

The obvious answer is that they were never needed.

The even more obvious answer is that this whole thing have been a charade.

Why the need for charity?
The fact is constraints designed to minimise / prevent spread for delta worked, then. If you doubt that check health stats against other comparable countries.
The same constraints make less sense for a more infectious, less injurious variant already beyond possible containment and at peak spread.

I despise labour with a passion, and they have utterly failed by any metric with every single policy they've instituted for the very good reason that they're motivated by ideals that have no place in the real world. But for their covid response I'm giving them a C+.

[husaberg]

It was only ever designed to be a stick to get the vaccination numbers up into the 90's, and from that perspective - it worked.
Comaped to nz Hong kong The aged population has very low vaccination rates but similar overall rates compared to nz and it will be interesting to see the effect of what happens NZ vs them.

[TheDemonLord]

One observation I have is ... you didn't read it properly ...

From 11:59pm on 4 April 2022... there will be no requirement to use My Vaccine Pass. Until 4 April, where My Vaccine Passes are not used, the current restrictions remain — but after this time, the new capacity limits will apply to everyone. Vaccine mandates will also be removed other than for health and disability sector workers, prison staff, and border and MIQ workers.

You know, it's really funny - the one thing that I haven't read is the scientific study that says that Omicron will no longer be as infectious as it is currently, at midnight on the 5th of April.

If someone could send me a link to that peer reviewed paper....

[TheDemonLord]

It was only ever designed to be a stick to get the vaccination numbers up into the 90's, and from that perspective - it worked.

A totally illiberal, fascist stick.

And I mean that in every sense of the word.

[TheDemonLord]

Why the need for charity?
The fact is constraints designed to minimise / prevent spread for delta worked, then. If you doubt that check health stats against other comparable countries.
The same constraints make less sense for a more infectious, less injurious variant already beyond possible containment and at peak spread.

I despise labour with a passion, and they have utterly failed by any metric with every single policy they've instituted for the very good reason that they're motivated by ideals that have no place in the real world. But for their covid response I'm giving them a C+.

Did they work?

There have been many other places in the world that had the same constraints that didn't have the same effect.

I'm firmly in the camp that it was factors outside of Government control (Easily controlled border access, low population density, lack of a mass transit system, higher UV radiation in the atmosphere etc. etc.) that had the biggest impact on Covid not Spreading.

The only thing I would give them a C+ on would be the standing up temporary vaccination centres. Everything else is an F-

[pete376403]

It will be interesting to see which way the daily infection and death rates go.

[Berries]

when you extrapolate out further a likely half million out there completely sick of the over bearing control mechanisms. A potential 10% of voters.....
My six year old reckons your maths is shithouse.

[F5 Dave]

Truck driver maths.

Usually explained with quantities of the cheapest service station pie.

[FJRider]

If someone could send me a link to that peer reviewed paper....

I reviewed it ... might work.




Or not ...


But ... Fat useless pricks are still more at risk of dying.


Of anything.


Take care ... ;)

[TheDemonLord]

It will be interesting to see which way the daily infection and death rates go.

Especially with the new reporting metrics, might actually be able to tell who died of Covid as opposed to with Covid...

[TheDemonLord]

My six year old reckons your maths is shithouse.

What does your six year old say about the decline in Covid Tracer app usage?

That paints a far starker picture than even R650 was insinuating.

[TheDemonLord]

I reviewed it ... might work.

Or not ...

But ... Fat useless pricks are still more at risk of dying.

Of anything.

Take care ... ;)

Still waiting for the link ;)

[pritch]

The only thing I would give them a C+ on would be the standing up temporary vaccination centres. Everything else is an F-

Not for the first time I considered something from this source to be completely divorced from reality. Just this morning though I read a likely explanation.

"I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman."

[Berries]

What does your six year old say about the decline in Covid Tracer app usage?
He reckons if contract tracing is no longer carried out the tracer app is redundant so no surprise if usage has dropped off.

I had to paraphrase that. When I asked him he just farted and laughed.

[R650R]

My six year old reckons your maths is shithouse.

Well done lil ripper, he just won another participation trophy 😜😂

[R650R]

Not for the first time I considered something from this source to be completely divorced from reality. Just this morning though I read a likely explanation.

"I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman."

You been reading Woman’s Weekly again? Mind you that’s the kind of woke identity nonsense the left thrives on....
That statement fails alone on the female dominated industries most affected by mandates

Midwives
Nurses
Retail
Hospitality
Takeaway food
Checkout operators
Alternative health providers
Massage

[onearmedbandit]

Just this morning though I read a likely explanation.

"I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman."

Um how does that work in countries that don't have a female leader but still have anti-mandate protests and action?

[F5 Dave]

If I ask my to do something and it even slightly sounds like I'm telling her to do it, she won't do it on principle. Even if it benefits her. Hot button.

Some people are even more belligerent.

[pritch]

Um how does that work in countries that don't have a female leader but still have anti-mandate protests and action?

Probably similar to here. The majority of the "anti mandate" are not that at all. Most are misfits, misinformed, or mentally unwell. There is still room for misogynists.

[onearmedbandit]

Yeah sorry but you made a blanket statement - "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman.", which is obviously (even by your own admission) incorrect.

For the record, I'm vaccinated, I understand the benefits of the vaccine, I don't support any of the conspiracies surrounding covid nor the vaccine itself, but I am anti-mandate. My reasoning is that I don't believe in giving governments (regardless of whether the leader has a vagina or penis) more power.

[F5 Dave]

So where should the power be?

With the biggest? Or the richest?

Or should we all rely on humans to do the right thing for everyone in balance?

Under 200 words please.

[onearmedbandit]

In this situation (covid-19) my opinion is the choice on whether to be vaccinated or not should lie with the individual. Get vaccinated and take adequate precautions and be protected the best you can or don't get vaccinated and take your chances.

[R650R]

The majority of humans voluntarily....
Stop at Red lights
Don’t speed ex Excessively
Wear seat belts
Don’t drink and drive.....

I know there are “ mandates “ about those but you can choose not to obey without it affecting your personal freedom or employment opportunities for most people....

We voluntarily go to the dentist at great expense because we know despite the physical and financial pain it effects a positive health outcome.

As soon as we got near 90 mark we should have thrown away the whole passport scheme. The original goal was 80% for herd immunity and even that is far bigger uptake than other vaccines society uses. Who on earth thought it even relevant to keep a beauracrstic nonsense in place at post 90 levels given it was impractical for most places to effectively enforce it.
All the govt had to do to get fast uptake would have been to say hey it’s free now but you might have to pay in future and if there’s hospital bed shortage you’ll get priority treatment.

[pritch]

Yeah sorry but you made a blanket statement - "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman.", which is obviously (even by your own admission) incorrect.



It doesn't apply to everybody but there would be many for whom that is exactly the case. There will be others who would not agree with anything she did because she's Labour.

I still like the statement.

[onearmedbandit]

It doesn't apply to everybody but there would be many for whom that is exactly the case. There will be others who would not agree with anything she did because she's Labour.

I still like the statement.

Fair enough, and in which case you'd obviously support a statement like "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told by the government what I should put in my body."? Sure it doesn't apply to everybody but there would be many for whom this is exactly the case.

[FJRider]

Fair enough, and in which case you'd obviously support a statement like "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told by the government what I should put in my body."? Sure it doesn't apply to everybody but there would be many for whom this is exactly the case.

Nobody (even you) likes being told what to do ... and even if it IS in your own best interest to do so ... it's the principal of that .. that's the sticking point.

What a large number never took into account ... was the business communities (employment wise) taking the mandates on board (almost) without exception.


The difference between having a good job ... and having an essential job was never given much consideration. Not by Joe/Joane Public anyway.

[onearmedbandit]

Nobody (even you) likes being told what to do ...

I can't speak for you but I know from my own experiences in life that simply isn't true. Many people look to others or higher authorities for exactly that, to be told what to do, be it their partner, their parent(s),their boss, their god, their country's leader, whoever. By the way that's merely an observation, not a judgement either way.


What a large number never took into account ... was the business communities (employment wise) taking the mandates on board (almost) without exception

Many businesses were at a point of willing to do anything to start operating again.

[F5 Dave]

I'm not anti seat belt but I think everyone one else should have the opportunity to help pay for my medical bills if I have an accident without one.

I'm not anti helmet but. . .

I'm not anti drive only on the left hand side of the road but. . .

Am I my brother's keeper?

Well, sometimes he's a bit of a stupid cunt, ya know?

[onearmedbandit]

I'm not anti seat belt but I think everyone one else should have the opportunity to help pay for my medical bills if I have an accident without one.

I'm not anti helmet but. . .

I'm not anti drive only on the left hand side of the road but. . .

Am I my brother's keeper?

Well, sometimes he's a bit of a stupid cunt, ya know?

Do any of the above scenarios involve putting something in your own body? Try keeping on topic.

[FJRider]

I can't speak for you but I know from my own experiences in life that simply isn't true. Many people look to others or higher authorities for exactly that, to be told what to do, be it their partner, their parent(s),their boss, their god, their country's leader, whoever. By the way that's merely an observation, not a judgement either way.

My own wording ... particularly the nobody part ... was wrong.

Perhaps ... the vocal minority The ("I know my rights") brigade didn't like it ..


But ... was it not the view of the majority "Protesting" in Wellington .. ??



Many businesses were at a point of willing to do anything to start operating again.

Those NOT in the "Essential Industries" were at that point. Those still able to continue working ... had to follow the rules though. Most of the latter already had been informed on what conditions they could continue to work. The company I work for had been.

I only had one week off ... before I was back working. The same pay always in my account every week.

[FJRider]

Do any of the above scenarios involve putting something in your own body? Try keeping on topic.

There are various groups in THIS country ... making millions ... relying on people to do that very thing.

And the majority of those people ... would be anti-vax.


Go figure ...

[husaberg]

Yeah sorry but you made a blanket statement - "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman.", which is obviously (even by your own admission) incorrect.

For the record, I'm vaccinated, I understand the benefits of the vaccine, I don't support any of the conspiracies surrounding covid nor the vaccine itself, but I am anti-mandate. My reasoning is that I don't believe in giving governments (regardless of whether the leader has a vagina or penis) more power.

Hi Fraser, what you have missed is tldr is on record as saying a female who is pregnant should not be the prime minister on acccount of her "being pregnant."
Amongst other sexist religious other racist twaddle he has peddled, so i would say its pretty valid comment Pritch made. wherever you agree or not. Its such simple math so that possibly even R650r could add it up.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183438-The-2017-Election-Thread?p=1131082116#post1131082116

[F5 Dave]

Do any of the above scenarios involve putting something in your own body? Try keeping on topic.
As opposed to McDonalds, cigarettes, alcohol, vaping, [continue list to whatever level of class A drug pushes your buttons] . Many people will do some, or up to all of those , and then get all sanctimonious about an actual medicine with a shit ton of research. So yeah, I do think the consequences on society of opting out are selfish.

If we hadn't had passports and mandates the vax rate would very likely be lower, like most other countries. And the bigger fallout of people who wouldn't get cancer treatment for instance if the hospital system was even worse affected.

I dont think arguments about personal liberty are that compelling in comparison.

[onearmedbandit]

Hi Fraser, what you have missed is tldr is on record as saying a female who is pregnant should not be the prime minister on acccount of her "being pregnant."
Amongst other sexist religious other racist twaddle he has peddled, so i would say its pretty valid coment Pritch made. wherever you agree or not.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183438-The-2017-Election-Thread?p=1131082116#post1131082116

You totally missed the point. Also please note I never stated there wasn't those that opposed her because she is female.

[onearmedbandit]

As opposed to McDonalds, cigarettes, alcohol, vaping, [continue list to whatever level of class A drug pushes your buttons] . Many people will do some, or up to all of those , and then get all sanctimonious about an actual medicine with a shit ton of research.

How is this even comparable? All those things are personal choices, whether right or wrong. That's their choice to make.


So yeah, I do think the consequences on society of opting out are selfish.

Yes you can argue their reasons are selfish, but I think you'd find it very difficult to find anyone who hasn't acted in a similar way before. I remember being before a judge due to excessive speed in my early years who was describing my riding as 'selfish without care of the consequences to other road users'



I dont think arguments about personal liberty are that compelling in comparison.

And you're welcome to hold that opinion, and I would not judge nor criticise you for doing so. My opinion differs but that's all they are, opinions. Ultimately they're meaningless.

[husaberg]

You totally missed the point. Also please note I never stated there wasn't those that opposed her because she is female.i think you kind of missed my point, TLDR was on record as being opposed to her, as she was "female who was pregnant". it was his own opinions expreesed.

[onearmedbandit]

i think you kind of missed my point, TLDR was on record as being opposed to her, as she was "female who was pregnant". it was his own opinions expreesed.

And what is your point? That there is someone opposed to Jacinda because she's female? So what? I never said there wasn't any, so I don't see what relevance you mentioning one by name has. It has no bearing on the point I was making with regards to the quote Pritch posted.

But I suspect you already were aware of that.

[husaberg]

Not for the first time I considered something from this source to be completely divorced from reality. Just this morning though I read a likely explanation.

"I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman."


Yeah sorry but you made a blanket statement - "I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman.", which is obviously (even by your own admission) incorrect.
.

Probably similar to here. The majority of the "anti mandate" are not that at all. Most are misfits, misinformed, or mentally unwell. There is still room for misogynists.

Um how does that work in countries that don't have a female leader but still have anti-mandate protests and action?

It doesn't apply to everybody but there would be many for whom that is exactly the case. There will be others who would not agree with anything she did because she's Labour.

I still like the statement.

i think you kind of missed my point, TLDR was on record as being opposed to her, as she was "female who was pregnant". it was his own opinions expreesed.


And what is your point? That there is someone opposed to Jacinda because she's female? So what? I never said there wasn't any, so I don't see what relevance you mentioning one by name has. It has no bearing on the point I was making with regards to the quote Pritch posted.

But I suspect you already were aware of that.

My point is the exact person pritch was responding to (which was tldr)was on record as being opposed to the PM being a woman as she happened to be a women who was pregnant. It was a dig at this attitude.
for some reason, you are missing this?

[onearmedbandit]

My point is the exact person pritch was responding to (which was tldr)was on record as being opposed to the PM being a woman as she happened to be a women who was pregnant. It was a dig at this attitude.
for some reason, you are missing this?

No I couldn't care less, I was taking issue with the quote itself. I have no interest in why it was posted, so your point is not relevant to me in any way.

[husaberg]

No I couldn't care less, I was taking issue with the quote itself. I have no interest in why it was posted, so your point is not relevant to me in any way.

Stool......?

[TheDemonLord]

Not for the first time I considered something from this source to be completely divorced from reality. Just this morning though I read a likely explanation.

"I'm not anti vaccine, I'm just anti mandate." Actually means, "I'm just anti being told what to do by a woman."

So.... Is Justin Trudeau a Woman?

Or what about the article posted by Husaberg from 100+ years ago in the UK, was that being told to do by a Woman?

Cut the Sexist Crap, this has absolutely nothing to do with the Gender and has everything to do with infringing on individual rights. It's wrong regardless of who does it.

[TheDemonLord]

He reckons if contract tracing is no longer carried out the tracer app is redundant so no surprise if usage has dropped off.

I had to paraphrase that. When I asked him he just farted and laughed.

Except contact tracing was 'required' under Red....


Although I do agree to his response about it, Farting, laughing and ignoring is what everyone should have done.

[TheDemonLord]

Hi Fraser, what you have missed is tldr is on record as saying a female who is pregnant should not be the prime minister on acccount of her "being pregnant."
Amongst other sexist religious other racist twaddle he has peddled, so i would say its pretty valid comment Pritch made. wherever you agree or not. its pretty simple math that possibly even R650r could add that on up.
https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/183438-The-2017-Election-Thread?p=1131082116#post1131082116

Given how she's been an absolutely terrible Prime Minister, despite all the Media Fawning, despite inheriting a country that is geographically perfect for resisting a pandemic - that at every opportunity she's infringed on individual rights and liberties, she's failed on every policy she's attempted to deliver - including the ones that I at least agree with the sentiment (if not the stated reasons and solutions).

I'd say on hindsight, that being pregnant was the least of her issues, being an incompetent Socialist (but I repeat myself) who should never have been let anywhere near the leaders of Power (thanks Winston - how's retirement and the decimation of NZ First going?) is more pressing.

Edit: And just for the record (since I know you are going to continue to play the Sexist card) - I'm quite the fan of Margaret Thatcher who also had children. But she didn't have them after she became PM. In fact, both her children were Adults by the time she became PM.

[TheDemonLord]

If we hadn't had passports and mandates the vax rate would very likely be lower, like most other countries.

Lies.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=NZ+covid+vaccination+rates+over+time

The Ahren Pass was announced on the 17th of November. We were already well on our way to 80% of total population vaccinated, I believe we hit 90% of elligible people vaccinated in December.

Outright Lies.


I dont think arguments about personal liberty are that compelling in comparison.

Would you be willing work for free, as a slave, to benefit society? Afterall, Arguments about personal liberty aren't that compelling in comparison to society benefit....

[Ocean1]

Would you be willing work for free, as a slave, to benefit society?

Every productive member of NZ does exactly that for the first 5 months of every year, personal liberty be fucked.

[TheDemonLord]

So where should the power be?

With the biggest? Or the richest?

Or should we all rely on humans to do the right thing for everyone in balance?

Under 200 words please.

If only we'd addressed this problem about 200 years ago with the concept of Natural rights and the limitation of those rights.

This is essentially the Totalitarian, Collectivist argument. "We can't achieve Utopia, therefore we have to tyrannize you".

Yeah, No thanks.

Power lies where it always does, with the Individual. That individual then has a social contract with a governing entity to protect everyone's natural rights. That's why voting is both universal and at the individual level.

(And that was in 78 words)

[pritch]

Given how she's been an absolutely terrible Prime Minister, despite all the Media Fawning, despite inheriting a country that is geographically perfect for resisting a pandemic -


Britain was also geographically perect for resisting a pandemic. Their lack of leadership resulted in mass deaths and much more drastic restrictions on liberty.
Get over it. Give Ardern the credit she deserves.

[TheDemonLord]

Britain was also geographically perect for resisting a pandemic.

No.

And here's why:

1: nearly 20 times higher population density (281 per square KM vs 17)
2: The Channel Tunnel (non air link with Europe)
3: Major international travel Hub
4: Close to multiple major population centres
5: Large mass transit systems (The London Underground, trains in general)
6: Close to other population centres for people to travel to the UK via improvised means (Migrant boats)
7: Lack of Sunlight (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-94417-9)

Oh and in case you missed it....

BRITAIN UNDERTOOK THE SAME LOCKDOWN POLICIES THAT WE DID.

It was not Government Policy, but geography.

[TheDemonLord]

Give Ardern the credit she deserves.

For being a Socialist tyrant who is hates personal liberty?

Yeah - I give her plenty of credit for that.

Everything else is media spin.

[pritch]

To placate the idiot fringe who said they didn't want an mRNA vaccine, the government bought Astra Zeneca. Turns out the idiots wouldn't take that either. Now we have to throw out nearly a million bucks worth of vaccines.


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/128155338/covid19-76000-astrazeneca-doses-will-be-dumped-on-april-2

[sugilite]

A totally illiberal, fascist stick.

And I mean that in every sense of the word.

None the less, a very effective one.
The pollies suddenly ran out of time with delta banging the door down and fuck all ICU beds actually available - well more the staff to run them. Those Pollies led by Jacinda had squandered so much time whilst basking in the adulation's and running victory laps before the race had finished. They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs. As usual we paid the price for poor pollie performance.

[Ocean1]

They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs.

Well they did, albeit a bit late.
What they should have done and made no effort towards at all is constructing and staffing covid wards. Bit fucking late when 25% of your effective front line health staff are missing in action.

[FJRider]

Power lies where it always does, with the Individual. That individual then has a social contract with a governing entity to protect everyone's natural rights. That's why voting is both universal and at the individual level.



There was an individual standing in front of me today (puffing away on his cigarette) ... telling me how he won't take a vaccine ... "Because I don''t know what's in it"

I asked him if he knew what was in that smoke he was inhaling. Yep he says ... Just smoke.




I guess being stupid is a natural right for some too.



Who knew.

[F5 Dave]

They should have gone back 20+ years and started funding hospitals properly to be able to cope with natural disaster or pandemics. But User pays blah blah.

I do like the optimistic view that vaccines were available for small island countries when they were struggling with supply for in the rest of the world including the countries the vaccine were made. But we are all armchair experts.

[FJRider]

Arguments about personal liberty aren't that compelling in comparison to society benefit....

So ... the complaints of a few ... don't override the health choices of the majority .. ??

[TheDemonLord]

So ... the complaints of a few ... don't override the health choices of the majority .. ??

There is no 'health choices of the Majority', there is only the health choice of the Individual.

That's a collectivist argument.

And it's no different from every *ist claim of 'Group X spreads Disease, so we must discriminate against them'

[TheDemonLord]

None the less, a very effective one.

How?

As per my response to F5Dave, well before the introduction of the vaccine Pass, we were on our way to 90% immunity.


The pollies suddenly ran out of time with delta banging the door down and fuck all ICU beds actually available - well more the staff to run them. Those Pollies led by Jacinda had squandered so much time whilst basking in the adulation's and running victory laps before the race had finished. They should of been running vigorous vaccination programs. As usual we paid the price for poor pollie performance.

I mean, the roll out initially was a little sluggish, but once it got going - even I, the most arden-t critic, gave them a C-.

[TheDemonLord]

I guess being stupid is a natural right for some too.

One of the most important ones, actually.

Because what is Stupid today might be visionary tomorrow...

[pritch]

As I left the Supermarket today I saw a guy I knew approaching about to enter. I commented that it was difficult to tell who was who with everyone wearing masks.

He told me not to approach too close, "I've got it."


?

I have questions.

[sugilite]

How?

As per my response to F5Dave, well before the introduction of the vaccine Pass, we were on our way to 90% immunity.



I mean, the roll out initially was a little sluggish, but once it got going - even I, the most arden-t critic, gave them a C-.

How? 90% was not going to be enough to avoid overwhelming the lack of ICU beds.
I was on one shot when it cut in, and the first few places that I could not enter, I went fuck it and got my second shot within 48 hours. I'd wager bigglie on my not being the only one making the same decision in those first few days. The numbers shot up to mid nineties pretty fast after that.
Just because you did not like it, did not make it in any way less effective.

[Ocean1]

They should have gone back 20+ years and started funding hospitals properly

You get far better bang for your health buck at primary care level.
Trouble is that's mostly private spend, (GPs), and there's no incentive for costs there to do anything but increase.

As for the rest...
https://www.oecd.org/els/health-systems/Country-Note-NEW%20ZEALAND-OECD-Health-Statistics-2015.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

How? 90% was not going to be enough to avoid overwhelming the lack of ICU beds.
I was on one shot when it cut in, and the first few places that I could not enter, I went fuck it and got my second shot within 48 hours. I'd wager bigglie on my not being the only one making the same decision in those first few days. The numbers shot up to mid nineties pretty fast after that.
Just because you did not like it, did not make it in any way less effective.

No, they did not. Here's the Stats from Google (that famous right-wing site...) - I've even marked the 17th of November for you (the date the Ahren Pass came into effect).

350825

Can you show me where the numbers 'shot up to mid nineties pretty fast after that' on the Graph?

[FJRider]

There is no 'health choices of the Majority', there is only the health choice of the Individual.

That's a collectivist argument.

And it's no different from every *ist claim of 'Group X spreads Disease, so we must discriminate against them'

As I recall ... At "The Protest" in Wellington ... where the "There's NO Covid here" was the catch phrase.


Until ... a few women found ... it WAS there. Then they demanded hospitalization. 17 cases were linked to the protest ... but there were probably more.

Perhaps ... if they ALL did have had the jab earlier ... they would have been all better off from the start.


And nobody (other than them) would have known any differently.


Health choices aren't as simple as some make them out to be.


Or are they .. ??


Go figure ...

[TheDemonLord]

Health choices aren't as simple as some make them out to be.

Or are they .. ??

Go figure ...

Every individual made choices that had a causal relationship to their health outcomes.

They really are that simple.

[FJRider]

One of the most important ones, actually.

Because what is Stupid today might be visionary tomorrow...

Over the years ... I've had stupid ideas about doing things ... Some were a shit load of fun.




Other ones however ... Not so much.


But the guy in the post of mine you quoted here ... might die from his own stupidity.


From smoking or covid.


Or if he's lucky ... old age.

[FJRider]

Every individual made choices that had a causal relationship to their health outcomes.

They really are that simple.

If none of them think they could die from it ... none worry about it.


It's THAT simple.

[husaberg]

Well they did, albeit a bit late.
What they should have done and made no effort towards at all is constructing and staffing covid wards. Bit fucking late when 25% of your effective front line health staff are missing in action.

i find it hard to disagree with that at all .The most disapointing thing for me was how long it took to get the Vaccine roll out started, but i guess the countries with the cases got the vax first.


That said I remember a certain KB member claiming it was impossible given the logistics of it being keep cold, i bet he has frozen embryos on his face about now.

R650R care to comment?

[sugilite]

No, they did not. Here's the Stats from Google (that famous right-wing site...) - I've even marked the 17th of November for you (the date the Ahren Pass came into effect).

350825

Can you show me where the numbers 'shot up to mid nineties pretty fast after that' on the Graph?

The last few percent is hardly going to show as a steep curve, but yes, you can see the curve going up just fine after the 17th :yes:

[TheDemonLord]

The last few percent is hardly going to show as a steep curve, but yes, you can see the curve going up just fine after the 17th :yes:

Indeed...

At much the same rate that it had been going up before.

Proving definitively that the Ahren Pass had no noticeable impact on our Vaccination rates. Hence my comment, we were well on our way to 90% vaccination rates without the requirement of the Ahren Pass.

[F5 Dave]

But of course the idea had already been instilled. Get vaccine or you won't be able to do shit. It isn't in isolation.

[FJRider]

... Proving definitively that the Ahren Pass had no noticeable impact on our Vaccination rates. Hence my comment, we were well on our way to 90% vaccination rates without the requirement of the Ahren Pass.

The Pass wasn't introduced to encourage the vaccination rate though ... it was simply to encourage spending.


Many thought once the 90% vaccination rate was achieved ... the "Herd Immunity" would be declared ... and they ... (those that weren't vaccinated) would not need to get the jabs.



They ... were wrong.

[TheDemonLord]

But of course the idea had already been instilled. Get vaccine or you won't be able to do shit. It isn't in isolation.

More lies.

You already got caught in the first lie, thanks to the data, now you're trying to walk it back.

I guess the words that 'TDL was right all along' stick so hard in your throat that you're singing that 2+2 is equal to 5 because the party wills it.

[TheDemonLord]

The Pass wasn't introduced to encourage the vaccination rate though ... it was simply to encourage spending.

Many thought once the 90% vaccination rate was achieved ... the "Herd Immunity" would be declared ... and they ... (those that weren't vaccinated) would not need to get the jabs.

They ... were wrong.

You want me to believe that a law that specifically restricts people from spending money in certain places, was enacted to encourage Spending?!? :weird::weird::weird::weird:

All this Cope and Apologia - whereas I just have to point to the government's own data that shows I was always right.

[FJRider]

You want me to believe that a law that specifically restricts people from spending money in certain places, was enacted to encourage Spending?!? :weird::weird::weird::weird:

Well ... keeping the UN-vaccinated riff raff out of the way ... and off the street too.

Quite funny actually ...


All this Cope and Apologia - whereas I just have to point to the government's own data that shows I was always right.

I tell myself I'm right all the time. I have no need to point ... that's just rude.


Your point is ... ??

[TheDemonLord]

Well ... keeping the UN-vaccinated riff raff out of the way ... and off the street too.

Quite funny actually ...

It failed at that also...


I tell myself I'm right all the time. I have no need to point ... that's just rude.

Your point is ... ??

The Data does not backup the reasons given for the Ahren Pass.

[FJRider]

It failed at that also...

By MY observation (literally) ... I saw a number of people getting refused service ... because they could not produce a vaccine pass.


PRICELESS to watch ... :killingme




The Data does not backup the reasons given for the Ahren Pass.

A LOT of your posts have nothing to back them up ... but you still post it.

You have data ... which you interpret as it suits.


You need facts ... because data seldom are facts.


Good luck with that.

[husaberg]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EO4hREOWAAAhiSJ.jpg

[TheDemonLord]

By MY observation (literally) ... I saw a number of people getting refused service ... because they could not produce a vaccine pass.

PRICELESS to watch ... :killingme

And so how did that, according to you, "was simply to encourage spending"?

You've just disproved yourself there.


A LOT of your posts have nothing to back them up ... but you still post it.

You have data ... which you interpret as it suits.

You need facts ... because data seldom are facts.

Good luck with that.

Okay then - care to show me on the graph after the Pass was announced any meaningful change in the number of people vaccinated or the rate at which they were getting vaccinated?

This is just the same as when I called shenanigans on the '5 Covid deaths' only for the government less than a week later back track because it was so obviously Wrong.

[FJRider]

And so how did that, according to you, "was simply to encourage spending"?

You've just disproved yourself there.

I was spending ... THEY weren't. THEY however ... were TRYING TO spend. Total fail on their part ... :killingme

With about a 90% vaccination rate at that time ... it might be suggested that ... the majority WERE SPENDING ... :killingme


Okay then - care to show me on the graph after the Pass was announced any meaningful change in the number of people vaccinated or the rate at which they were getting vaccinated?

I don't need to. What may have been intended ... didn't happen. And certainly not with the speed that was hoped for.

I just watched more and more people being turned away ... :killingme

BUT ... there WERE plenty getting service.

Funny that .. !!


This is just the same as when I called shenanigans on the '5 Covid deaths' only for the government less than a week later back track because it was so obviously Wrong.


You get it wrong quite a bit.


NOW ... you claim it was only once.


Funny that ... :killingme

[TheDemonLord]

I was spending ... THEY weren't. THEY however ... were TRYING TO spend. Total fail on their part ... :killingme

With about a 90% vaccination rate at that time ... it might be suggested that ... that the majority WERE SPENDING ... :killingme

So, let's think about this, If they weren't allowed to spend under the rules, but would be allowed to spend without the rules - which scenario results in more consumer spending?

With rules?
Or without?

I'll await your answer.


I don't need to. What may have been intended ... didn't happen. And certainly not with the speed that was hoped for.

I just watched more and more people being turned away ... :killingme

BUT ... there WERE plenty getting service.

Funny that .. !!

You do if you want to keep up the Apologia and Cope.


You get it wrong quite a bit.

NOW ... you claim it was only once.

Funny that ... :killingme

You think I get it wrong, but time has had a curious habit of vindicating me of late - might want to think about that.

[FJRider]

So, let's think about this, If they weren't allowed to spend under the rules, but would be allowed to spend without the rules - which scenario results in more consumer spending?

With rules?
Or without?

I'll await your answer.

They were allowed to download their individual (cheap and nasty) Covid Passport.

Some could not do that ... guess why .. ??

You probably already know ... but I'll tell you anyway.


You do if you want to keep up the Apologia and Cope.

Nah ... I don't.


I'm STILL laughing too much anyway ... :killingme


You think I get it wrong, but time has had a curious habit of vindicating me of late - might want to think about that.

That's you of late ... WRONG.

And late to admit it.


Funny that.



And they couldn't download their Vaccination Passport because they (Mostly) weren't vaccinated. Or was against their principles.

Either way ... :killingme

[Kickaha]

That's you of late ... WRONG.

And late to admit it.


Funny that.



"Some people have such a fragile ego, such brittle self-esteem, such a weak "psychological constitution," that admitting they made a mistake or that they were wrong is fundamentally too threatening for their egos to tolerate. Accepting they were wrong, absorbing that reality, would be so psychologically shattering, their defense mechanisms do something remarkable to avoid doing so — they literally distort their perception of reality to make it (reality) less threatening. Their defense mechanisms protect their fragile ego by changing the very facts in their mind, so they are no longer wrong or culpable."

Guy Winch Ph.D

[R650R]

As I left the Supermarket today I saw a guy I knew approaching about to enter. I commented that it was difficult to tell who was who with everyone wearing masks.

He told me not to approach too close, "I've got it."


?

I have questions.

Sounds like he has faith in masks and social distancing....

Infected essential workers are still allowed to travel to work.... one would assume they are still allowed to purchase petrol and food to effect the continuation of that process... cause good citizens don’t stockpile so there’s no way he has any more than several days food in cupboard..

We all know a lot of people will be in the position to self manage their illness and not even report it to authorities and just stay home and tell their loved ones not to visit for awhile. Because unless your seriously ill there’s nothing they can do for you anyway.
And that would explain how cases rocketed to 20,000 a day and just stayed there when statistically case numbers should have carried on in an exponential manner, doubling every three days...

[TheDemonLord]

They were allowed to download their individual (cheap and nasty) Covid Passport.

Oh you could get it without undergoing a Medical procedure?

No?

Oof. So clearly wasn't to promote Spending, which was your original statement which was a LIE.

Same as every other lie about why the Vaccine pass was introduced.

- Didn't stop infections
- Didn't increase vaccination rates
- Didn't increase spending

The only thing it DID do, was to create a two-tier society. Were have I heard Socialists creating a 2-tier society before? Oh wait - Every. Fucking. Time.

[Kendog]

Oh you could get it without undergoing a Medical procedure?

No?

Oof. So clearly wasn't to promote Spending, which was your original statement which was a LIE.

Same as every other lie about why the Vaccine pass was introduced.

- Didn't stop infections
- Didn't increase vaccination rates
- Didn't increase spending

The only thing it DID do, was to create a two-tier society. Were have I heard Socialists creating a 2-tier society before? Oh wait - Every. Fucking. Time.
I feel sorry for you.
You’re obviously intelligent but you’re so far down the rabbit hole can’t see it.

[husaberg]

I feel sorry for you.
You’re obviously intelligent but you’re so far down the rabbit hole can’t see it.

Pretty sure as well a with Alice in wonderland he apperenlt mixing in the neverending story.
https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes/quote-no-amount-of-evidence-will-ever-persuade-an-idiot-mark-twain-135-16-65.jpg
if only...

https://www.verywellmind.com/thmb/e5pNmnSXRuvRDuHUdc2MlaQ8N38=/1333x1000/smart/filters:no_upscale()/how-to-forgive-yourself-e5c336eb26ad4f75b2e1822a65b347dc.jpg

instead of....
https://psychology-spot.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/be-wrong.png

[husaberg]

Sounds like he has faith in masks and social distancing....
Infected essential workers are still allowed to travel to work.... .
Covid infected workers are allowed to travel to work really are you sure?
As myself being an essential worker, I have different rules we are required to test daily if we are a close contact or have had covid. We have to test negative to be able to work.


And that would explain how cases rocketed to 20,000 a day and just stayed there when statistically case Numbers should have carried on in an exponential manner, doubling every three days...
By the way, do you think its even remotely possible as it patently obvious to everyone else,
Could the reason the curve has been flattened rather than doubling every three days might be the rules the actions the controls like makes and social distancing and restrictions and the other thing kiwis have done so well?.
I know you would catch fire if you admit you were wrong or misinformed but if you take off the obvious trolls you are still an obvious troll.
As no person aside from Katman or Yokel or mashman is that stupid. but you atre likly it seems both as you are a rather obvious troll.

[onearmedbandit]

We recently had covid in our household, my wife was the first to be infected. We went into isolation as per the guidelines. This began on a Sunday a couple weeks back. Our daughter then tested positive on the Thursday. Wondering if we need to start the 7 days isolation again I turned to the MOH website for guidance. No, only our daughter needed to restart the 7 day period. The rest of the household only needed to test positive on the 7th day of the original isolation period. Except my wife. It clearly states on the MOH website that the original infected person does not need to return a negative result, they just needed to be feeling ok with no obvious symptoms. I looked at the documentation that accompanied the RAT test and it also confirmed the person who was originally affected should not perform a test on the 7th day, as they would most likely return a positive result as they still would have Covid-19, but as long as they felt ok they could leave isolation.

So therefore you could be covid positive (as my wife was on the 7th day) and return to work.

[pritch]

Sounds like he has faith in masks and social distancing....

Infected essential workers are still allowed to travel to work.... one would assume they are still allowed to purchase petrol and food to effect the continuation of that process... cause good citizens don’t stockpile so there’s no way he has any more than several days food in cupboard..

We all know a lot of people will be in the position to self manage their illness and not even report it to authorities and just stay home and tell their loved ones not to visit for awhile. Because unless your seriously ill there’s nothing they can do for you anyway.
And that would explain how cases rocketed to 20,000 a day and just stayed there when statistically case numbers should have carried on in an exponential manner, doubling every three days...


He didn't have a 'proper' mask, he was wearing a bandana.

He is not an essential worker, he shouldn't need petrol, and he doesn't need to go to a shop, that supermarket will deliver.

I was assuming there would be a percentage of people would consider themselves too important to follow the advice of the Health Dept, I just didn't expect to meet one so soon.

[onearmedbandit]

I was assuming there would be a percentage of people would consider themselves too important to follow the advice of the Health Dept, I just didn't expect to meet one so soon.

Well considering the advice on the MOH website is that a negative test after 7 days is not required to return to work or school as I pointed out in the post I made at the same time there does exist a scenario where you could be out in public, be covid positive, and be following the MOH advice.

[TheDemonLord]

I feel sorry for you.
You’re obviously intelligent but you’re so far down the rabbit hole can’t see it.

Which rabbit hole?

It's not like Husa has already posted an article from the 1800s that outlined the liberal opposition to any form of compulsion (whether that is explicit Mandates or discrimination via the Vaccine Passports) when it comes to Vaccines.

I'm not sure you can call it 'A rabbit hole' if it's following in nearly 200 years of principle and tradition.

In this thread multiple people have put forward multiple 'reasons' why the Pass was implemented. Not a single one of the reasons withstood the scrutiny of the real world data. To make things more hilarious, is that I pointed this out before it was done.

Now we are still in red but mysteriously (might have something to do with falling polls and the wider population seeing Jacinda for the wannabe dictator that she is) we no longer need a Vaccine Pass.

This proves that (since the conditions are the same, we are still in red...) the reasons for the introduction of the Vaccine Pass were all Bullshit and it represents the single biggest affront to the Natural Rights of NZers in my lifetime.

[TheDemonLord]

He didn't have a 'proper' mask, he was wearing a bandana.

He is not an essential worker, he shouldn't need petrol, and he doesn't need to go to a shop, that supermarket will deliver.

I was assuming there would be a percentage of people would consider themselves too important to follow the advice of the Health Dept, I just didn't expect to meet one so soon.

Maybe he can't afford the Delivery fee?

Who are you to dictate to other people what they do and don't need?

How would you feel if someone took your Motorbike because you don't need it, there's Uber afterall.

[husaberg]

I looked at the documentation that accompanied the RAT test and it also confirmed the person who was originally affected should not perform a test on the 7th day, as they would most likely return a positive result as they still would have Covid-19, but as long as they felt ok they could leave isolation.

So therefore you could be covid positive (as my wife was on the 7th day) and return to work.

I would suggest the reason that the rat test indicates that is at that stage they are unlikely to be a potential spreader of the virus.
it's about risk and potential reward, Not what's remotely or even slightly possible.
This is why rules were tighter in the eradication stage than they are now. its a different goal.
The rat test is slower at picking up positive than a pcr is which is why they do it on 7 days.
As they have likely to have had it ten days by then.

The forum trolls on this site take great delight and now still try and make or the rules are now to soft and they know more yet forget no longer about eradication. So those same rules that they protested so much against previously are no longer being followed as it was changed from eradication a long time ago.


some people continue to test positive even after they feel well and are no longer infectious. If youÂ’re isolating after a positive RAT, thereÂ’s no need to test again at end of the seven-day isolation period - but remember to stay home if you still have symptoms.


If someone at higher risk of severe Covid-19 illness is a household contact and has a negative RAT for COVID-19, a more sensitive PCR test maybe needed. They could discuss this with their usual health provider.

Note for the forum trolls no test is 100% only an idiot or a misinformed dunning kurger victim makes out that they are or could be.
tests are only tools. Much like forum trolls in that regard.

[onearmedbandit]

I would suggest the reason that the rat test indicates that is at that stage they are unlikely to be a potential spreader of the virus.
it's about risk and potential reward, Not what's remotely or even slightly possible.
T

The reasoning matters not, I was just explaining how someone could see themselves as being covid positive, and be out at work etc, and still be following the MOH guidelines.

[husaberg]

The reasoning matters not, I was just explaining how someone could see themselves as being covid positive, and be out at work etc, and still be following the MOH guidelines.

I disagree the reasoning is very pertinent to what was being discussed,
Whilst you may not agree if you do or not, it matters not a jot to me either way.
I laid out the guidelines, and I have also explained why they are like that.I included the test regime and why.
if you make excuses for others that's entirely your prerogative. I will only point out the water you are drinking is poisoned.
The clean tested water is available if you look for it, rather than attempt to drink from puddles.

[onearmedbandit]

I disagree the reasoning is very pertinent to what was being discussed,
Whilst you may not agree if you do or not, it matters not a jot to me either way.
I laid out the guidelines, and I have also explained why they are like that.I included the test regime and why.
if you make excuses for others that's entirely your prerogative. I will only point out the water you are drinking is poisoned.
The clean tested water is available if you look for it, rather than attempt to drink from puddles.

Yeah once again it's clear you don't quite follow. Pritch described a situation where he bumped into someone who said he had covid and was out in public and he said he had questions regarding that. I explained how that scenario could be, that as far as the person knew they were still positive (like the RAT test indicated to my wife after 7 days) but were out in public AND following the MOH guidelines. Do you understand?

The reasoning about being very unlikely to transmit (lets say there were no chance of transmission) is irrelevant to the scenario. My wife could've been in that situation, the test indicated she still was still positive so she could've met someone at work/the supermarket/anywhere and said she 'has it' and been following MOH guidelines.

[husaberg]

Yeah once again it's clear you don't quite follow. Pritch described a situation where he bumped into someone who said he had covid and was out in public and he said he had questions regarding that. I explained how that scenario could be, that as far as the person knew they were still positive (like the RAT test indicated to my wife after 7 days) but were out in public AND following the MOH guidelines. Do you understand?

The reasoning about being very unlikely to transmit (lets say there were no chance of transmission) is irrelevant to the scenario. My wife could've been in that situation, the test indicated she still was still positive so she could've met someone at work/the supermarket/anywhere and said she 'has it' and been following MOH guidelines.
Yeah, what can I say you just must be so much smarter than me, you just operate on a completely different plane.:msn-wink:
Here is an idea Fraser, how about you read what I post. Because I am well aware of what pritch posted, same as what you posted and also what R5650R posted also.
You are it seems are much less so. in conclusion, Just because you do not consider points to be relevant does not actually make points irrelevant.

[FJRider]

Oh you could get it without undergoing a Medical procedure?

No?

History being MADE. YOU are correct.

NO. You only need an injection or two. Hardly ... A medical procedure. But if you want to call it that ... ;)


Oof. So clearly wasn't to promote Spending, which was your original statement which was a LIE.

Clearly ... they DIDN'T want UN-Vaccinated riff-raff contaminating the (obviously) more intelligent vaccinated portion of society. Their choice NOT too.


Same as every other lie about why the Vaccine pass was introduced.

It worked for ME. As already stated (by ME) .. PLENTY were REFUSED service ... because THEY had NO vaccine pass.

Which bit of that do you NOT understand .. ??


- Didn't stop infections
- Didn't increase vaccination rates
- Didn't increase spending

Private businesses were continuing to make money. Win win.

Those businesses caught allowing customers without passes to partake of their wares ... were shut down.

Bugger eh .. !!

A good plan though ... just didn't work as well as it was hoped. That UN-vaccinated Riff Raff needs educating.


The only thing it DID do, was to create a two-tier society. Were have I heard Socialists creating a 2-tier society before? Oh wait - Every. Fucking. Time.

I'm NOT a socialist ... so you wouldn't hear it from me. But I DID find the result funny.

Two-tier ... you mean those ALLOWED to avail themselves of the businesses that were open for business ... and those NOT ALLOWED ENTRY into those businesses ... because they CHOSE NOT TO BE VACCINATED.

In effect ... THEY created their own issue.


BUGGER ... eh .. !!

[onearmedbandit]

Yeah, what can I say you just must be so much smarter than me, you just operate on a completely different plane.:msn-wink:
Here is an idea Fraser, how about you read what I post. Because I am well aware of what pritch posted, same as what you posted and also what R5650R posted also.
You are it seems are much less so. in conclusion, Just because you do not consider points to be relevant does not actually make points irrelevant.

Why mention R650? What I was referring to had nothing to do with what he said as I didn't even read his post.

Ok I'll try making this real simple for you, as it appears you need help with it.


Person A feels ill and does a RAT test, which yields a positive result.

They then isolate as per MOH guidelines for 7 days.

At the end of the 7 days they feel fine, and don't need a negative result as per MOH guidelines to return to work. They read the documentation that accompanied the RAT test that also says they don't need to perform another test at the end of the 7 days, as it most likely will be positive as they still have the virus in them, but as long as they feel fine they can return to normal life.

But they do a test anyway, and it's positive. So they think they still have covid but as they feel fine they can return to work. As per the guidelines. The following day they bump into someone and say 'don't get too close, I have covid'. And this person wonders why they are out in the community.

Please explain to me where and how transmission rate stops that exact scenario playing out? Sure in terms of risk it matters, but with regards to stopping that conversation taking place it plays no part.

[FJRider]

Please explain to me where and how transmission rate stops that exact scenario playing out? Sure in terms of risk it matters, but with regards to stopping that conversation taking place it plays no part.

If a POSITIVE covid result is given in a RAT test ... MY employer requires a NEGATIVE result from the RAT test before returning to work.


HIS policy I follow.

[onearmedbandit]

If a POSITIVE covid result is given in a RAT test ... MY employer requires a NEGATIVE result from the RAT test before returning to work.


HIS policy I follow.

lol big whoop, has nothing to do with MOH guidelines.

[FJRider]

lol big whoop, has nothing to do with MOH guidelines.

NEWS FLASH.


Ministry of Health do NOT pay MY wages.



And ... I get my pay ... working ... at home off shift ... or sick.

AND ... if I had Covid.


Which I DO NOT.

[onearmedbandit]

NEWS FLASH.


Ministry of Health do NOT pay MY wages.



And ... I get my pay ... working ... at home off shift ... or sick.

AND ... if I had Covid.


Which I DO NOT.

Seriously, what does this have to do with anything I'm discussing?

[husaberg]

Why mention R650? What I was referring to had nothing to do with what he said as I didn't even read his post.

Ok I'll try making this real simple for you, as it appears you need help with it.


Person A feels ill and does a RAT test, which yields a positive result.

They then isolate as per MOH guidelines for 7 days.

At the end of the 7 days they feel fine, and don't need a negative result as per MOH guidelines to return to work. They read the documentation that accompanied the RAT test that also says they don't need to perform another test at the end of the 7 days, as it most likely will be positive as they still have the virus in them, but as long as they feel fine they can return to normal life.

But they do a test anyway, and it's positive. So they think they still have covid but as they feel fine they can return to work. As per the guidelines. The following day they bump into someone and say 'don't get too close, I have covid'. And this person wonders why they are out in the community.

Please explain to me where and how transmission rate affects that exact scenario playing out? Sure in terms of risk it matters, but with regards to stopping that conversation taking place it plays no part.

Why mention R650R why that's because the posts pritch made was also had reply to R650R twice, in fact.
ps that's for repeating what i have posted again. Even you originally claimed it was totally irrelevant. but as i posted it i kind of was already aware of it?
Firstly they can only return to work according to the guidelines if they have no symptoms. You keep missing out on that.

I posted the reason for the change and that generally, the Rat has a 3-day delay in detecting the virus so day 7 is actually day 10 in the timeline of the infection, on day 7 if you don't have symptoms you can return to work.
You claimed this was irrelevant i disagreed. I still do.
As its highly unlikely at day 10 without symptoms, you will be transmitting the disease. as i said it's about risk vs reward. if we were in the eradication there would be a further long period of isolation. but we are not.

The incubation period of omicron is about 2 days faster than the original variant. a whole day faster than delta add that in with a rat test which is generally being used now instead of the PCR so it ends up with further delay of about three days so by the time you test positive you have nearly had it a week.
This is why it's so hard to contain.
The side effect of the omicron variant is far less likely to result in the life-threatening than delta which was lower than the original variant as well. this follows the traditional pattern of virus's as their success relies on spreading fast and not killing its' host. so the riules becom slaker as eradication is not the aim but a slow spread is to manage and mitigate the effects on the health system.


But shit Fraser i am wasting my time, its obvious you are clearly, so much smarter than i am.
You have a nice day. i will just keep on not being as smart as you are.

[FJRider]

Seriously, what does this have to do with anything I'm discussing?

YOU stating the term ... Guidelines.

Guidelines: a general rule, principle, or piece of advice. ie: "the organization" has issued guidelines for ...

A "Guideline" is neither LAW or RULE.

it is simply (as above) a Guide.

Hence ... GUIDE line.

Guidelines CANNOT be enforced by law. Simply because they are NOT law.



Which part of THAT is NOT understood ,, ??

[onearmedbandit]

Why mention R650R why that's because the posts pritch made was also had reply to R650R twice, in fact.
ps that's for repeating what i have posted again. Even you originally claimed it was totally irrelevant. but as i posted it i kind of was already aware of it?
Firstly they can only return to work according to the guidelines if they have no symptoms. You keep missing out on that.


We recently had covid in our household, my wife was the first to be infected. We went into isolation as per the guidelines. This began on a Sunday a couple weeks back. Our daughter then tested positive on the Thursday. Wondering if we need to start the 7 days isolation again I turned to the MOH website for guidance. No, only our daughter needed to restart the 7 day period. The rest of the household only needed to test positive on the 7th day of the original isolation period. Except my wife. It clearly states on the MOH website that the original infected person does not need to return a negative result, they just needed to be feeling ok with no obvious symptoms. I looked at the documentation that accompanied the RAT test and it also confirmed the person who was originally affected should not perform a test on the 7th day, as they would most likely return a positive result as they still would have Covid-19, but as long as they felt ok they could leave isolation.

So therefore you could be covid positive (as my wife was on the 7th day) and return to work.


The reasoning matters not, I was just explaining how someone could see themselves as being covid positive, and be out at work etc, and still be following the MOH guidelines.



Yeah once again it's clear you don't quite follow. Pritch described a situation where he bumped into someone who said he had covid and was out in public and he said he had questions regarding that. I explained how that scenario could be, that as far as the person knew they were still positive (like the RAT test indicated to my wife after 7 days) but were out in public AND following the MOH guidelines. Do you understand?

The reasoning about being very unlikely to transmit (lets say there were no chance of transmission) is irrelevant to the scenario. My wife could've been in that situation, the test indicated she still was still positive so she could've met someone at work/the supermarket/anywhere and said she 'has it' and been following MOH guidelines.


Why mention R650? What I was referring to had nothing to do with what he said as I didn't even read his post.

Ok I'll try making this real simple for you, as it appears you need help with it.


Person A feels ill and does a RAT test, which yields a positive result.

They then isolate as per MOH guidelines for 7 days.

At the end of the 7 days they feel fine, and don't need a negative result as per MOH guidelines to return to work. They read the documentation that accompanied the RAT test that also says they don't need to perform another test at the end of the 7 days, as it most likely will be positive as they still have the virus in them, but as long as they feel fine they can return to normal life.

But they do a test anyway, and it's positive. So they think they still have covid but as they feel fine they can return to work. As per the guidelines. The following day they bump into someone and say 'don't get too close, I have covid'. And this person wonders why they are out in the community.

Please explain to me where and how transmission rate stops that exact scenario playing out? Sure in terms of risk it matters, but with regards to stopping that conversation taking place it plays no part.

Didn't mention 'no symptoms' huh? Well except in my very first post, then subsequently by referring to the MOH guidelines. Hmmm what do they state about returning to work...


After 7 days, you can leave isolation as long as you are not feeling unwell. You may receive a text message confirming the end of your isolation. You do not need to wait for an official message or release to leave isolation. A negative RAT test is not required to return to work or school.

https://www.health.govt.nz/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-health-advice-public/people-covid-19/isolating-others-covid-19





I posted the reason for the change and that generally, the Rat has a 3-day delay in detecting the virus so day 7 is actually day 10 in the timeline of the infection, on day 7 if you don't have symptoms you can return to work.
You claimed this was irrelevant i disagreed. I still do.
As its highly unlikely at day 10 without symptoms, you will be transmitting the disease. as i said it's about risk vs reward. if we were in the eradication there would be a further long period of isolation. but we are not.

The incubation period of omicron is about 2 days faster than the original variant. a whole day faster than delta add that in with a rat test which is generally being used now instead of the PCR so it ends up with further delay of about three days so by the time you test positive you have nearly had it a week.
This is why it's so hard to contain.
The side effect of the omicron variant is far less likely to result in the life-threatening than delta which was lower than the original variant as well. this follows the traditional pattern of virus's as their success relies on spreading fast and not killing its' host. so the riules becom slaker as eradication is not the aim but a slow spread is to manage and mitigate the effects on the health system.

None of this matters to whether the situation I described could take place or not. None of it.



But shit Fraser i am wasting my time, its obvious you are clearly, so much smarter than i am.
You have a nice day. i will just keep on not being as smart as you are.

Weak.

[onearmedbandit]

YOU stating the term ... Guidelines.

Guidelines: a general rule, principle, or piece of advice. ie: "the organization" has issued guidelines for ...

A "Guideline" is neither LAW or RULE.

it is simply (as above) a Guide.

Hence ... GUIDE line.

Guidelines CANNOT be enforced by law. Simply because they are NOT law.



Which part of THAT is NOT understood ,, ??

What the fuck are you on about? I'm not discussing whether they can be enforced by law or whatever, I'm merely quoting them because that is the applicable government departments advice. What your employer chooses to do is up to them but it matters not a bean on what is being discussed.

[husaberg]

Didn't mention 'no symptoms' huh? Well except in my very first post, then subsequently by referring to the MOH guidelines. Hmmm what do they state about returning to work...

None of this matters to whether the situation I described could take place or not. None of it.
Weak.

The only issue is you created the scenario in your own mind to fit what you wanted to have happened. Then decided the reason why it was actually irrelevant was irrelevant, you did this as you decided to appoint yourself as the sole judge of relevance. but you chop and change what is relevant as your mood dictates.
Like i said you are too smart for me Fraser, you appear to operate on a level all of your own.
Creating scenarios ignoring evidence and deciding what is relevant.
You are the sole judge, So everyone else if just orbits on the periphery of your greatness.
What can i say, men are from mars Fraser from uranus

if the sun rises a little later tomorrow i am sure its just because of you.
Have a nice day..:rolleyes:

[FJRider]

What the fuck are you on about? I'm not discussing whether they can be enforced by law or whatever, I'm merely quoting them because that is the applicable government departments advice. What your employer chooses to do is up to them but it matters not a bean on what is being discussed.

Perhaps you should keep your fucking Government Departments ADVICE (freely available to those that seek it) to yourself then ... MOST workplaces have their OWN RULES on the subject. THOSE individual businesses have THEIR own policy on that subject. THEY ... try to KEEP Covid free.

Those in employment seeking advice on the subject ... SHOULD seek their OWN employers advice FIRST.

Sorry ... BUT ... YOU aren't far enough up the food chain to countermand THEIR requirements.

Requirements that YOU wont be aware of ... let alone ... have the power/authority to overrule.



AGAIN ... which part of THAT is NOT understood .. ??

[onearmedbandit]

The only issue is you created the scenario in your own mind to fit what you wanted to have happened. Then decided the reason why it was actually irrelevant was irrelevant, you did this as you decided to appoint yourself as the sole judge of relevance. but you chop and change what is relevant as your mood dictates.
Like i said you are too smart for me Fraser, you appear to operate on a level all of your own.
Creating scenarios ignoring evidence and deciding what is relevant.
You are the sole judge, So everyone else if just orbits on the periphery of your greatness.
What can i say, men are from mars Fraser from uranus

if the sun rises a little later tomorrow i am sure its just because of you.
Have a nice day..:rolleyes:

Ignoring what evidence? I'm not debating whether they are safe to be back at work or not (for the record I trust the reasoning why it's ok to return), that's your assumption. I'm simply saying that someone could think they are covid positive still (due to the 7th day RAT test) and yet be following the MOH guidelines. At no stage did I say that was the right or wrong thing to do.

The rest of your dribble isn't worth responding to.

[onearmedbandit]

Perhaps you should keep your fucking Government Departments ADVICE (freely available to those that seek it) to yourself then ... MOST workplaces have their OWN RULES on the subject. THOSE individual businesses have THEIR own policy on that subject. THEY ... try to KEEP Covid free.

Those in employment seeking advice on the subject ... SHOULD seek their OWN employers advice FIRST.

Sorry ... BUT ... YOU aren't far enough up the food chain to countermand THEIR requirements.

Requirements that YOU wont be aware of ... let alone ... have the power/authority to overrule.



AGAIN ... which part of THAT is NOT understood .. ??

The part where I don't give a fuck about anyone's employers decision WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING THE MOH INFORMATION and not that of individual employers.

[FJRider]

The part where I don't give a fuck about anyone's employers decision WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING THE MOH INFORMATION and not that of individual employers. And be careful up on your high horse there buddy, the fall can hurt...

And YOU have no right to tell ANYBODY (or even suggest) ... to strictly follow MOH ADVICE (because it is MOH advice. NOT information) ... on when they SHOULD return to work after a positive Covid result. When ... possibly ... THEIR own company's have different REQUIREMENTS.

I doubt the Company I work for ... is the only company that has that requirement.



I'm sure TDL will now quote you as another Governmental "Follow the Government advice at all costs .. or else" Plebe ... :laugh:



Something to look forward too ... :killingme

[FJRider]

The part where I don't give a fuck about anyone's employers decision WHEN WE ARE DISCUSSING THE MOH INFORMATION and not that of individual employers.

Why the edit of your post ... it looks like a threat in the original .. ???

[husaberg]

Ignoring what evidence? I'm not debating whether they are safe to be back at work or not (for the record I trust the reasoning why it's ok to return), that's your assumption. I'm simply saying that someone could think they are covid positive still (due to the 7th day RAT test) and yet be following the MOH guidelines. At no stage did I say that was the right or wrong thing to do.

The rest of your dribble isn't worth responding to.
So now as well as being the sole judge of relevance, you are the adjudicator of assumptions as well. i am not sure but is that a Promotion? congratulations,
ps you are not debating you would have to counterpoint rather than just lambast and decide what you think is relevant hen lambast again.
Good evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oc6PTtcthA

[onearmedbandit]

So now as well as being the sole judge of relevance, you are the adjudicator of assumptions as well. i am not sure but is that a Promotion? congratulations,
ps you are not debating you would have to counterpoint rather than just lambast and decide what you think is relevant hen lambast again.
Good evening.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Oc6PTtcthA

Yes you're right, I'm not debating anything. In fact I even stated that in the post you quoted. My god...

[onearmedbandit]

Why the edit of your post ... it looks like a threat in the original .. ???

Yup I said 'careful up there on your high horse, the fall can hurt'. Then I removed it because it occurred to me you'd be the sort of person to take it as a threat.

[husaberg]

Yes you're right, I'm not debating anything. In fact I even stated that in the post you quoted. My god...

oh, So you're chief fact-checker as well, as master of what is pertinent and relevant and what is assumed
Silly me i thought the next step was actually declaring yourself god or is that part of tomorrow's mission?
https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/62928295.jpg

[FJRider]

Yup I said 'careful up there on your high horse, the fall can hurt'. Then I removed it because it occurred to me you'd be the sort of person to take it as a threat.

Is it ......

[onearmedbandit]

Ah I just realised I've been trolled all night long. Good effort guys, you actually had me going there. More fool me.

[husaberg]

Sorry Fraser i just cant see how that would be possible?
I have told FJ to be careful of your left hook as it is likely to catch him by surprise as might come out of nowhere:whistle:

[TheDemonLord]

History being MADE. YOU are correct.

NO. You only need an injection or two. Hardly ... A medical procedure. But if you want to call it that ... ;)

It doesn't matter if it's a single prick of a needle or a full blown amputation, organ transplant and blood transfusion. Bodily Autonomy and informed Consent.


Clearly ... they DIDN'T want UN-Vaccinated riff-raff contaminating the (obviously) more intelligent vaccinated portion of society. Their choice NOT too.

Ah yes, can't have the Bourgeoisie contaminating the Proletariat or the Jews contaminating the Aryans or the Blacks contaminating the Whites.

Do you realize who you sound like yet?


It worked for ME. As already stated (by ME) .. PLENTY were REFUSED service ... because THEY had NO vaccine pass.

Which bit of that do you NOT understand .. ??

The part where you think people who want to spend money being refused service (and therefore not spending money) is the result of a policy (as per you) designed to promote spending.

Seems quite the opposite, by your own statements.


Private businesses were continuing to make money. Win win.

Those businesses caught allowing customers without passes to partake of their wares ... were shut down.

Bugger eh .. !!

A good plan though ... just didn't work as well as it was hoped. That UN-vaccinated Riff Raff needs educating.

Or, without the rule, all businesses could have made more money. Which means your earlier statement of why it was introduced was a Lie.


I'm NOT a socialist ... so you wouldn't hear it from me. But I DID find the result funny.
Two-tier ... you mean those ALLOWED to avail themselves of the businesses that were open for business ... and those NOT ALLOWED ENTRY into those businesses ... because they CHOSE NOT TO BE VACCINATED.
In effect ... THEY created their own issue.
BUGGER ... eh .. !!

Imagine, for a moment, that the choice to enforce the Vaccine Pass was voluntary - I'd say 90% of businesses wouldn't bother and the 10% that would, most likely would quickly change their tune.

However - you keep putting the onus back on the wrong place, I believe the common term is 'Victim Blaming' (which I'm loathed to use) - the simple fact is that the Law creates an element of Coercion. As we can plainly see from the Data, Coercion that was not needed - we were well on our way to hitting the magical 90% vaccination rate without it.

When you are coercing someone into doing something, you can't then say that the consequences you enforced on them are the result of their own free will.

[pritch]

Maybe he can't afford the Delivery fee?

Who are you to dictate to other people what they do and don't need?

How would you feel if someone took your Motorbike because you don't need it, there's Uber afterall.

All complete nonsense of course.

Oh, and I see Bishop Brian is claiming credit for the removal of the vaccine pass requirement. Yeah right.

[TheDemonLord]

All complete nonsense of course.

Not at all - you don't know the exact intricacies of their life, they might have a very good reason for doing what they did, that you aren't aware of.


Oh, and I see Bishop Brian is claiming credit for the removal of the vaccine pass requirement. Yeah right.

I wouldn't expect anything less from that Twat. He is the very definition of a Broken Clock...

[FJRider]

It doesn't matter if it's a single prick of a needle or a full blown amputation, organ transplant and blood transfusion. Bodily Autonomy and informed Consent.

As I said ... call it what you like. And it was (health wise) in your own best interest.


Ah yes, can't have the Bourgeoisie contaminating the Proletariat or the Jews contaminating the Aryans or the Blacks contaminating the Whites.

Glad you agree ...


The part where you think people who want to spend money being refused service (and therefore not spending money) is the result of a policy (as per you) designed to promote spending.

The MAJORITY of the population were happy about using the Vaccine Passport ... can't please everybody I guess.


Or, without the rule, all businesses could have made more money. Which means your earlier statement of why it was introduced was a Lie.

With the covid Passport system ... they had a better chance of staying safe and open for business.


Imagine

Love that song ...


When you are coercing someone into doing something, you can't then say that the consequences you enforced on them are the result of their own free will.

But if they do it ... whats the problem .. ?? It was in their best interest.

[TheDemonLord]

As I said ... call it what you like. And it was (health wise) in your own best interest.

The only person who gets to decide what is in my best interest, is me.


The MAJORITY of the population were happy about using the Vaccine Passport ... can't please everybody I guess.

Compliance =/= happiness.

We'll see just how many people use it after it's not mandatory, I'll bet it will be single digit percentages. Which means the Majority weren't happy, at all.


With the covid Passport system ... they had a better chance of staying safe and open for business.

Clearly not! Plenty of businesses with Vaccine passport rules had to shutdown due to Covid rules. Funnily enough, the ones that didn't bother with the passport... not so much...


Love that song ...

It's virtually the Communist Manifesto...


But if they do it ... whats the problem .. ?? It was in their best interest.

The same problem as when someone holds a knife and says 'Your wallet or your life'.

[pritch]

Not at all - you don't know the exact intricacies of their life, they might have a very good reason for doing what they did, that you aren't aware of.


As you say I may be unaware of the "intricacies," but I've known the guy since 1973. He is bright but has an attitude. Not giving a fuck about being out and about with COVID would fit with his demonstrated outlook on life.

But you can feel free to manufacture whatever fiction you like. Why change now.

[TheDemonLord]

As you say I may be unaware of the "intricacies," but I've known the guy since 1973. He is bright but has an attitude. Not giving a fuck about being out and about with COVID would fit with his demonstrated outlook on life.

But you can feel free to manufacture whatever fiction you like. Why change now.

Sounds like we'd get along, got his number?

But jokes aside - you're assuming a lot. As you say - being out and about would fit with his outlook - but you don't know that this was the specific reason.

This isn't manufacturing a fiction - this is pointing out you are making a great number of assumptions, far more assumptions that you have pilloried me for less.

[onearmedbandit]

Sorry Fraser i just cant see how that would be possible?
I have told FJ to be careful of your left hook as it is likely to catch him by surprise as might come out of nowhere:whistle:

I guess out of the two possible options it's a relief to see you're both just trolls...;)

[FJRider]

The only person who gets to decide what is in my best interest, is me.

That's why you got the jabs ... right .. ??


Compliance =/= happiness.

We'll see just how many people use it after it's not mandatory, I'll bet it will be single digit percentages. Which means the Majority weren't happy, at all.

YOU complied ... but you're not happy. What went wrong .. ??

If our wise leader deems it safe .... whom are we to argue .. ??


Clearly not! Plenty of businesses with Vaccine passport rules had to shutdown due to Covid rules. Funnily enough, the ones that didn't bother with the passport... not so much...

Those not following the rules were shut down. Some closed due to not enough customers. And a few I heard of weren't doing that well previous to their closure.

Go figure ...


It's virtually the Communist Manifesto...

It made lots of money.


The same problem as when someone holds a knife and says 'Your wallet or your life'.

You have choices then too.

It usually hurts you more if you do not comply.

Go figure ...

[husaberg]

But you can feel free to manufacture whatever fiction you like. Why change now.

shit dude he has already Jeffery archer'd the shit out it.

[TheDemonLord]

That's why you got the jabs ... right .. ??

YOU complied ... but you're not happy. What went wrong .. ??

If our wise leader deems it safe .... whom are we to argue .. ??

I was happy with the option to get the Vaccine, I did my reading on it and made my decision irrespective of any need for enforcing Compliance.

When they introduced an element of Coercion: "Get the Vaccine or you can't do XYZ", that is wholly immoral. That was when it went wrong.


Those not following the rules were shut down. Some closed due to not enough customers. And a few I heard of weren't doing that well previous to their closure.

Sounds like a perfect articulation of why it was completely unnecessary.


You have choices then too.

It usually hurts you more if you do not comply.

Does it? Maybe in the short term, maybe in the Long term, maybe not and maybe it hurts a lot more if you DO comply:


“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

[pritch]

shit dude he has already Jeffery archer'd the shit out it.

That's weirdly appropriate. How can I put this? Archer attempted to access a military related organisation to which he was not entitled? When it was suggested that he may qualify, he didn't explain that he didn't, he implied that he did. He didn't actually lie but...

Wikipedia details other 'misleading statements.'

[pete376403]

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

It is rather a pity that the death toll seems to be overly represented by those in the "trivial old age" group, probably infected by the "new generations"

[TheDemonLord]

“In keeping silent about evil, in burying it so deep within us that no sign of it appears on the surface, we are implanting it, and it will rise up a thousand fold in the future. When we neither punish nor reproach evildoers, we are not simply protecting their trivial old age, we are thereby ripping the foundations of justice from beneath new generations.”

It is rather a pity that the death toll seems to be overly represented by those in the "trivial old age" group, probably infected by the "new generations"

That is the way of things, people plant trees for which they will never sit in the shade.

[R650R]

That is the way of things, people plant trees for which they will never sit in the shade.

Well they just might if you call forest fire smoke shade.... it does block sun...

Tv one Sunday program had great show recently about the “ carbon farms” being planted up on east coast. Apparently there is no regulation around the need to conduct pest control, thinning or to build fire breaks and fire fighting dams, let alone access roads for fire crews.
Apparently one farmer already nearly lost his home due to one of these places burning.
Who knows what tragedy will unfold by the time the govt has finished “ looking into” the issue...

[pritch]

It is rather a pity that the death toll seems to be overly represented by those in the "trivial old age" group, probably infected by the "new generations"

Looking at the figures each day the thought occurs that COVID has got among the old folks homes.

[R650R]

They made a Freudian slip other night....

They reported “14 dead in last six days”..... makes one wonder how many other times a cumulative number was presented as today’s tally....

[Berries]

Burn them.

[neels]

They made a Freudian slip other night....

They reported “14 dead in last six days”..... makes one wonder how many other times a cumulative number was presented as today’s tally....
Pretty sure those people are still dead though. Apparently from the sniffles.

[husaberg]

Pretty sure those people are still dead though. Apparently from the sniffles.

Still likely to remain dead for the foreseeable future as well
Bloody Bat Flu

[R650R]

Pretty sure those people are still dead though. Apparently from the sniffles.

Well with no autopsies well never know for sure. All media articles now say died with not from.
I see this mornings news they are so desperate to keep the fear going they are now talking about 7 day rolling averages of case numbers. What should the bet they’ve will switch to monthly average as cases tail off....
I see two deaths added to “rolling average” as not discovered they had covid til afternoon dead.
If you want to be accurately reporting a statistic you don’t go changing the graph axis half way thru.....

[husaberg]

Well with no autopsies well never know for sure. All media articles now say died with not from.
I see this mornings news they are so desperate to keep the fear going they are now talking about 7 day rolling averages of case numbers. What should the bet they’ve will switch to monthly average as cases tail off....
I see two deaths added to “rolling average” as not discovered they had covid til afternoon dead.
If you want to be accurately reporting a statistic you don’t go changing the graph axis half way thru.....

You have been watching far too many episodes of Quincy, M.E you do not need to have an autopsy to confirm the cause of death its not a very common procedure either, the coroner directs it only if it's suspicious and not an obvious cause of death or to other factors need to be determined.
a PM doesn't confirm the cause of death the coroner does sometimes using information from a Post Mortem.
i realize you are a silly troll but these are people's lives you are trolling about , You are indeed a complete waste of oxygen
I hope this fills your troll tummy getting a rection you crave as your life is clearly so empty and unsatisfactory.
Have a nice day.

ps i see you have changed you tag line it should read dunning Kruger victim as thats is what you are.


A June 2020 study details autopsies from 80 COVID-related deaths in the German state of Hamburg. It found 57 of the 80 deaths were “definite” COVID-19 deaths, while four were attributed to other causes. The remainder were either “probable” or “possible” COVID-19 deaths.


One of the study co-authors, Professor Jan-Peter Sperhake from University Medical Center Hamburg-Eppendorf, told AAP FactCheck: “Of course we can prove that people are dying from COVID-19.”

“We have autopsied a great many people who have died from the disease … the problem is that conspiracy theorists do not accept scientific evidence,” he said in an email.

Prof Sperhake has previously argued that autopsies have been underused with COVID-19 victims – possibly due to concerns that corpses may be contagious – they are now much more common and accepted than they were at the beginning of the pandemic”.

[TheDemonLord]

It found 57 of the 80 deaths were “definite” COVID-19 deaths, while four were attributed to other causes. The remainder were either “probable” or “possible” COVID-19 deaths.

So, according to the study you cited, of the 80 deaths, nearly 30% weren't definite Covid Deaths.

5% being definitively not.

That's quite a variance in such a small sample size.

Now, the blurb you posted doesn't elaborate on what probable or possible means - but I think we can infer that there were other things present which muddied the water (Old age, pre-existing conditions, excess weight etc.)

This isn't a case of Dunning-Kruger, it's a case of when you use quick and dirty metrics as the basis for restrictive public policy, people are going to be extremely hostile to even small discrepancies in the data being used for said justification.

[Ocean1]

when you use quick and dirty metrics as the basis for restrictive public policy, people are going to be extremely hostile to even small discrepancies in the data being used for said justification.

Be reasonable, what other sort of metrics are going to prove our policies are kosher?

[pritch]

They made a Freudian slip other night....

They reported “14 dead in last six days”..... makes one wonder how many other times a cumulative number was presented as today’s tally....

They"ve been doing that for a few weeks. When the post mortem results come in positive the numbers are adjusted up.

[husaberg]

Be reasonable, what other sort of metrics are going to prove our policies are kosher?

You means the whole world covid reporting policies.
thats what it was prior?

But if you look at this metric guess what

global Covid-19 excess deaths were estimated at double or even quadruple the 5 million-odd reported deaths.
Plank says "basically you (look at) the total number of people who are dying for any reason - is that higher or lower than what you would typically see in a normal year pre-Covid?"
It is calculated as excess deaths = reported deaths - expected deaths.
"So you can look at this as an indicator of - is the fact that we're in a pandemic adding to our total mortality with total number of people who are dying?
"It's different at the moment, but over the last couple of years New Zealand has in fact had less deaths, whereas you know, most countries who've had big Covid waves have had a lot more deaths than normal because so many people have died from Covid."

In fact, Aotearoa's excess deaths are currently negative - potentially a result of reduced mortality due to a reduction in things like seasonal influenza due to Covid-19 health measures. That's not the case for most of the world.

[TheDemonLord]

You means the whole world covid reporting policies.

Indeed - when dying in a Car Crash with Covid is reported as Dying from Covid, it means the reporting is wrong...



Which is why the NZ Government changed it.

Or should I start spasticly saying 'Husaberg knows more than the NZ Government'

[Berries]

Indeed - when dying in a Car Crash with Covid is reported as Dying from Covid, it means the reporting is wrong...
Unless they sneezed.

[R650R]

Unless they sneezed.

That used to be a legitimate explanation for loss of control accident. One former workmate rolled a b train in spectacular fashion blocking sh1 and he got away with that.

[Berries]

It still is.

Reaching for the water bottle is the one these days.

[pritch]

NZ Directors of Health are not always qualified in medicine. The previous DoH, appointed by National, was an accountant. Dr Bloomfield's qualifications are in public health. Precisely the right man at the right time. We don't know how lucky we are.

[Ocean1]

NZ Directors of Health are not always qualified in medicine. The previous DoH, appointed by National, was an accountant. Dr Bloomfield's qualifications are in public health. Precisely the right man at the right time. We don't know how lucky we are.

Could have been worse. Could have been a fucking sight better without Andrew Little's hand up his arse.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/04/dr-ashley-bloomfield-just-didn-t-have-enough-left-to-lead-ministry-post-major-reforms-health-minister.html

Enough what, I wonder.

[pritch]

Could have been worse. Could have been a fucking sight better without Andrew Little's hand up his arse.



Geez some of us have high standards. He only acheived about the world's best results and people are still whinging. According to Seymour and Hoskings the Government's COVID response has been a catastrophe. It would have been if they had any say.

[TheDemonLord]

Geez some of us have high standards. He only acheived about the world's best results and people are still whinging. According to Seymour and Hoskings the Government's COVID response has been a catastrophe. It would have been if they had any say.

Did HE achieve the best result or did all the geographic factors of NZ (including the Ozone hole) achieve the best result?

Considering all the consequential issues we've had from the Governments response (Destroyed Livelihoods, segregated society, inflation, supply issues etc. etc.) I'd definitely say it's been a catastrophe for a disease with 99%+ survival rate

[sugilite]

Did HE achieve the best result or did all the geographic factors of NZ (including the Ozone hole) achieve the best result?
All factors you would likely not mention had it been a conservative government that was getting accolades.


Considering all the consequential issues we've had from the Governments response (Destroyed Livelihoods, segregated society, inflation, supply issues etc. etc.) I'd definitely say it's been a catastrophe for a disease with 99%+ survival rate

Issues all Governments are dealing right now with, bar the segregation, though the republican party did a great job of politicizing masks and creating segregation that way.

[Ocean1]

Geez some of us have high standards. He only acheived about the world's best results and people are still whinging. According to Seymour and Hoskings the Government's COVID response has been a catastrophe. It would have been if they had any say.

I reckon most people could manage to avoid doing what other countries found detrimental a year earlier.
Otoh, I don't see any new hospital beds, new staff, measurable improvements from the extra billions dumped into the health budget. The opposite, in fact.
Sure, impossible to claim the opposition's suggestions would have proven beneficial, but unfortunately labour's proven failures in every other field are staring us all in the face, what are the chances their health responses have been the single mitigating success?

[Ocean1]

Did HE achieve the best result

He was appointed by labour for a reason, what makes you thing Andrew Little's hand wasn't up his ares to the elbow?

[pritch]

Did HE achieve the best result or did all the geographic factors of NZ (including the Ozone hole) achieve the best result?

Considering all the consequential issues we've had from the Governments response (Destroyed Livelihoods, segregated society, inflation, supply issues etc. etc.) I'd definitely say it's been a catastrophe for a disease with 99%+ survival rate

Britain is an island but they took wrong decisions, when they finally made a decision, at every turn. Had we followed Johnson's incompetent lead we'd have 10,000 to 13,000 dead.

In your list of consequential issues you failed to mention the psychological damage to children caused by having to wear masks. That's about as serious as the rest of the things you mention. All of which are better than long COVID or the heart problems and loss of grey matter that leave sufferers alive but damaged. Possibly permanently,

[TheDemonLord]

All factors you would likely not mention had it been a conservative government that was getting accolades.

No, I'm pretty sure I've been consistent on hating what BoJo did in the UK.


Issues all Governments are dealing right now with, bar the segregation, though the republican party did a great job of politicizing masks and creating segregation that way.

How do you come to that conclusion - when the Republican view is/was:

"You can wear a mask if you want to, but we aren't going to force you to"

Whereas the Democrat position was 'You have to wear your mask otherwise you're a terrible person'

One is a Moral Judgement, the other isn't. One leads to segregation along a moral line, the other doesn't.

[TheDemonLord]

He was appointed by labour for a reason, what makes you thing Andrew Little's hand wasn't up his ares to the elbow?

That's kinda my point - as far as I'm concerned, he's just another Politician who used a crisis to gain more power than he ever should have.

[TheDemonLord]

Britain is an island but they took wrong decisions, when they finally made a decision, at every turn. Had we followed Johnson's incompetent lead we'd have 10,000 to 13,000 dead.

Britain may be an 'Island', but when it's a major transport hub, with a tunnel to a continent and you can get across the channel in a Rubber Dinghy - not quite the same as NZ, not quite the same by some margin.


In your list of consequential issues you failed to mention the psychological damage to children caused by having to wear masks. That's about as serious as the rest of the things you mention.

I'm sure I've mentioned that previously in this thread - but thanks for reminding me - Speech development issues, human emotion recognition issues, IQ drop issues.


All of which are better than long COVID or the heart problems and loss of grey matter that leave sufferers alive but damaged. Possibly permanently,

Is it? Are you seriously trying to say that developmentally crippling a generation of Children is better than letting Grandma have a couple more years of life?

[Ocean1]

That's kinda my point - as far as I'm concerned, he's just another Politician who used a crisis to gain more power than he ever should have.

And my point was that he had fuck all power beyond that conferred to any other govt "expert" mouthpiece.

[R650R]

Britain is an island but they took wrong decisions, when they finally made a decision, at every turn. Had we followed Johnson's incompetent lead we'd have 10,000 to 13,000 dead.

In your list of consequential issues you failed to mention the psychological damage to children caused by having to wear masks. That's about as serious as the rest of the things you mention. All of which are better than long COVID or the heart problems and loss of grey matter that leave sufferers alive but damaged. Possibly permanently,

That still only works out to 20 people a day on overage not as bad as bodies dropping in the street like the media sold us in season one.
Just under 35,000 people a year die in NZ of other causes which is about 95 people a day and what’s worse is 90% of those are lifestyle preventable illness....

https://www.aia.co.nz/en/about-aia/media-centre/press-releases/2021/90-percent-of-all-new-zealand-deaths-link-back-to-modifiable-behaviours.html

We die mostly from chronic heart disease, lung cancer, diabetes, colon cancer and all the other cancers too...

It’s impractical to do the autopsies but you have to wonder how many of our covid casualties were already chronically ill from some of those causes. I’m sure all of us know someone who had late cancer diagnosis appearing otherwise healthy then dying short time later as they had an acute case that was eating away inside...

If Jacinda really cared, if nz really cared we’d bulldoze every KFC and maccas to the ground and ban ALL refined sugar beverages and alcohol. The instant gratification of alcohol and processed foods is what’s really killing us. The fatherless lovechild of politics the roadtoll is almost statistically irrelevant at an average 1 or less person a day...
The crap we’re eating is killing us faster than your unvaxxed unmasked neighbour ever will...

[TheDemonLord]

If Jacinda really cared, if nz really cared we’d bulldoze every KFC and maccas to the ground and ban ALL refined sugar beverages and alcohol. The instant gratification of alcohol and processed foods is what’s really killing us. The fatherless lovechild of politics the roadtoll is almost statistically irrelevant at an average 1 or less person a day...
The crap we’re eating is killing us faster than your unvaxxed unmasked neighbour ever will...

To be fair though, they tried that in the US - didn't go too well.

[pritch]

Is it? Are you seriously trying to say that developmentally crippling a generation of Children is better than letting Grandma have a couple more years of life?

No because no generation of children were developmentally crippled. That's one for the likes of the fuckwits who protested at Parliament.

[TheDemonLord]

No because no generation of children were developmentally crippled.


https://europepmc.org/article/med/32613821
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0278584620304875
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7306970/
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Sonia-Gupta-10/publication/342931049_The_impacts_of_COVID-19_on_children/links/5f682cb2a6fdcc008631d487/The-impacts-of-COVID-19-on-children.pdf

Seems there's a good body of evidence to suggest they have been disproportionately affected by the Policies to protect them against a virus they are at no risk from.

Edit:

And this is without raising the pragmatic card of Parents knowing what Children need developmentally and that being deprived of that is going to have an effect.

[R650R]

No because no generation of children were developmentally crippled. That's one for the likes of the fuckwits who protested at Parliament.

Are you kidding... the most influential time of their lives and being terrified into thinking someone else coughing can kill you...

Don’t worry in ten years time when your walking to dairy for pack of ciggies or the sunday Star times and you accidently cough a bit of old age lung clearing.... and you get accosted by a car load of teenage thugs screaming at you to go home super spreader mass muderer.... you find out that yeah no mental scars on today’s kids were created at all.....

[pete376403]

Are you kidding... the most influential time of their lives and being terrified into thinking someone else coughing can kill you...

Don’t worry in ten years time when your walking to dairy for pack of ciggies or the sunday Star times and you accidently cough a bit of old age lung clearing.... and you get accosted by a car load of teenage thugs screaming at you to go home super spreader mass muderer.... you find out that yeah no mental scars on today’s kids were created at all.....

Or maybe they thought it was great - mask wearing meant no-one could identify you when getting up to no good.

[TheDemonLord]

Or maybe they thought it was great - mask wearing meant no-one could identify you when getting up to no good.

Teenagers up to mischief is one thing - Small children without an Autism diagnosis having trouble recognizing human emotion because all the adults around them have been wearing masks is another.

Small children having speech impediments because they haven't been able to see the lip and mouth movements of adults talking because of mask wearing.

Small children not being able to socialize with their peers during the critical development periods where they learn to interact with others of their own age, because Schools/Day cares/Kindergartens were shut down.

The list goes on.

And I must re-iterate, this was done for a virus that they were at virtually no risk from.

[mashman]

Or maybe they thought it was great - mask wearing meant no-one could identify you when getting up to no good.

The kids at one of my kids school certainly didn't/don't. An 'anti-mask movement' grew on instagram. A day of unveiling of those brave people behind the inspiring instagram account was to take place. The day came. The kids met at the designated place as the teachers shooed them away as naughty kids. The unmasking never happened. All kids got a warning. The silent majority are still wondering why they got jabbed and still have to wear masks... coz kids only grow up to become stupid.

[pete376403]

There has been mask wearing in public in Asia for decades. Therefore there should be an equally long term problem with children there as well. But they seem to be doing ok https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/

[onearmedbandit]

There has been mask wearing in public in Asia for decades. Therefore there should be an equally long term problem with children there as well. But they seem to be doing ok https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/

Granted my time in Asia is limited to Japan and probably only around 6mths in total spent there, but from that experience I did see people wearing masks in public spaces. However only those with a cold etc, and easily less than .1% of the population at any given time.

[F5 Dave]

Fucking listen to our resident conspiracy losers repeat what they read on American hatesites.

Have a thought of your own R666.

[TheDemonLord]

There has been mask wearing in public in Asia for decades. Therefore there should be an equally long term problem with children there as well. But they seem to be doing ok https://qz.com/299003/a-quick-history-of-why-asians-wear-surgical-masks-in-public/

Sure - but it's not en-masse, nor is it mandated by the Government.

So not really a valid comparison.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/ilFUz6BVoS8

[F5 Dave]

So covid is a simple virus that just wants to replicate. The question is, are we smarter than it? or is it smarter than us?

Evidence is kinda showing that we are the stupid ones. Some more than others.

Go on. Add your dumb arse politics to that.

Freedumb.

[husaberg]

So covid is a simple virus that just wants to replicate. The question is, are we smarter than it? or is it smarter than us?

Evidence is kinda showing that we are the stupid ones. Some more than others.

Go on. Add your dumb arse politics to that.

Freedumb.



then of course add people's attempts at misinformation and then the fact he thinks he knows more than a medical doctor or a scientist as he seen something on a conspiracy page on the net but was too thick to be able to make an informed decision.

[pete376403]

Article on stuff about sue grey, conspiracy theorist /anti vaxxer / anti cause-of-the-week crackpot. Early in the article, describing a meeting at a cafe "When her cake arrives she takes a picture to send to her daughter. “She will love this,” Grey says, tucking her phone back in her bag. Simmons leaves his on the table, recording our conversation." Further down the page "Grey is also a long-time opponent of cellphone technology, first opposing 3G towers in 2009, and then shifting on to wifi, then 5G. A former friend told Stuff that Grey - who has a bachelor of science - had an idea that if you hold a cellphone next to your head, you’d get a brain tumour." (In her case, not a chance - to get a tumour, first you have to have a working brain)


https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/128296235/just-asking-questions-how-lawyer-sue-grey-became-the-hero-of-new-zealands-conspiracy-underbelly

[R650R]

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/explained/300563481/covid19-what-we-know-about-new-zealands-500-covid-deaths

[pritch]

T
Small children having speech impediments because they haven't been able to see the lip and mouth movements of adults talking because of mask wearing.

Small children not being able to socialize with their peers during the critical development periods where they learn to interact with others of their own age, because Schools/Day cares/Kindergartens were shut down.

The list goes on.



Not much of a list. Do you seriously think mums were wearing masks when talking to their kids at home? True that the kids might have missed out on social contact but that's better than them bringing the virus home and infecting susceptible family members. You may have forgotten now but for most of the two years we had relative freedom in this country. The Aucklanders not so quite much but they're a bit thick.

Anecdotal evidence suggests that many people catching COVID now catch it from their kids who brought it home form school. Same as nits and all the other greebies kids bring home from school.

[TheDemonLord]

Not much of a list. Do you seriously think mums were wearing masks when talking to their kids at home?

Two words:

Day.
Care.


True that the kids might have missed out on social contact but that's better than them bringing the virus home and infecting susceptible family members. You may have forgotten now but for most of the two years we had relative freedom in this country. The Aucklanders not so quite much but they're a bit thick.

And which city has the largest population? Which means any negative affects of the restrictions of our freedom will be disproportionately felt by said city?


Anecdotal evidence suggests that many people catching COVID now catch it from their kids who brought it home form school. Same as nits and all the other greebies kids bring home from school.

I don't doubt that this is the case. But the evidence is quite clear - the Parents and the Kids are extremely unlikely to die from Covid. So we put the special protections for those aged 55+ - job done.

[husaberg]

https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/93/9377c6e1d6512094636e81374a9ecddd.jpeg

[R650R]

What a joke this whole sorry saga is. You couldn’t even deliberately write a senseless b-grade movie with this many plot contradictions....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/128356663/need-for-masks-in-retail-but-not-clubbing-is-absurd-and-nonsensical-retail-nz-says

All retail stores and supermarkets should crank the music, hang a disco ball so we can shop mask less.
Oh well at lest the titty bars be open again lol

[TheDemonLord]

What a joke this whole sorry saga is. You couldn’t even deliberately write a senseless b-grade movie with this many plot contradictions....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/128356663/need-for-masks-in-retail-but-not-clubbing-is-absurd-and-nonsensical-retail-nz-says

All retail stores and supermarkets should crank the music, hang a disco ball so we can shop mask less.
Oh well at lest the titty bars be open again lol

If one were cynical, one might say the rules are now 'what can we get away with' as opposed to 'what does the sciencetm say'

[R650R]

If one were cynical, one might say the rules are now 'what can we get away with' as opposed to 'what does the sciencetm say'

Yes I meant to say something along those lines too.
It all comes back to the contradictions in how much we must sacrifice to protect the vulnerable, with the value of the vulnerable being on which side of the not very flat curve they get infected on...
A peculiar metaphorical experience along the lines of the classic born on wrong side of the tracks which billy Connelly tells us centres around a brothel alongside a railway in small town USA....

It’s completely laughable that I could go out on the booze tommorow night rubbing up with random strangers but need to wear a mask in PaknSave to ask Apu about the weather forecast.
Guess Jacinda needs all that alcohol tax to pay for her broken promises....

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/04/the-year-of-collapsing-athletes-890-athletes-collapse-or-die-and-counting/

[husaberg]

........................350941

[R650R]

As predicted the regime eventually collapses under the weight of its own restrictions. This is absolutely shocking. This is where local MPs are supposed to grow a set of balls get on phone to minister of health and sort this shit in a day, that’s 24hrs!!! This is banana republic stuff to have critical healthcare workers out of action needlessly....


https://youtu.be/MgU3Hu8kwQE

[pete376403]

As predicted the regime eventually collapses under the weight of its own restrictions. This is absolutely shocking. This is where local MPs are supposed to grow a set of balls get on phone to minister of health and sort this shit in a day, that’s 24hrs!!! This is banana republic stuff to have critical healthcare workers out of action needlessly....

But you have already told us the virus is fake, and even if it is not, the vaccine doesn't work (but ivermctin does) so what do the nurses need to be boosted for?

[F5 Dave]

Hey there where ya goin',
Not exactly knowin'
Who says you have to call just one place home.
He's goin' everywhere,
B.J. McKay and his best friend Bear.

He just keeps on movin',
Ladies keep improvin'
Every day is better than the last.
New dreams and better scenes,
And best of all I don't pay property tax.

(Yeah, that's what I'm going to do one of these days, Bear
I'm going to teach you how to sing, how'd you'd like that kid, huh?)

Rollin' down to Dallas,
My wheels provide my palace
I'm off to New Orleans or who knows where.
Places new and ladies, too,
I'm B.J. McKay and this is my best friend Bear

source: https://www.lyricsondemand.com/tvthemes/bjandthebearlyrics.html


Honk honk. Toot Toot.

Truck drivers are awesome.


. . ly stupid.

[R650R]

But you have already told us the virus is fake, and even if it is not, the vaccine doesn't work (but ivermctin does) so what do the nurses need to be boosted for?

Well that’s precisely what the nurses want to know too. Given that they can come to work actually infected as they are essential workers.
Answers on the back of a postcard send to healthcare@govt.nz

[R650R]

Honk honk thanks Dave take me back to childhood days what a great show and Happy Days literally.
Oh to wind back the clock...
MacGyver
Greatest American Hero
Nightrider
Sledgehammer
Miami Vice
Six Million Dollar man
Magnum PI
Dukes of Hazzard

“Rolling down to Dallas, my wheels are my palace.
To places new and the ladies too ;)”


https://youtu.be/Rcozed_BJWM

[husaberg]

https://www.memesmonkey.com/images/memesmonkey/4e/4e5dd28112c823cfbc0f1e383791f504.jpeg