Tourism and Freedom Camping - post Covid

[Oakie]

Thought I'd post this here rather than in the Covid section as it's not really about Covid - more Tourism ... and in particular, 'Freedom Camping'.

I skim read an opinion piece the other day that stuck in my mind. It said that in the reboot of our economy and as part of the rehash of how we do tourism, we should prohibit 'Freedom Camping' to all but NZers wanting to see thier own country.

I see that these people probably don't bring that much money into the country and probably cause a bit of visual pollution by parking in great spots at no charge. I know that they can 'occupy' parking lots at beaches and similar. On the other hand, some of these people probably also do orchard labouring and similar so are a mobile workforce in the way that Kiwis seem unable to be.

In my job I do see little clusters of them every day parked up on Marine Parade in Christchurch and while I don't necessarily mind the odd bikini-clad German wanding back to their van from the beach, the sight of thier washing strung between vans in full view of the road is a bit naff.

Discuss.

[mashman]

You could offer a bikini drying service... and if you don't have a dryer, just hold the bikini to your face for 1 minute and read the above at them. Sorted ;)

[george formby]

We are right in the thick of it up here in the Bay of Islands, maybe not quite Queenstown levels, though.

Over the years my feelings have been for and against battered old vans filled with Euro yoof cluttering up the roads and beachsides.

Restricting freedom camping to Kiwis only is un-policeable and their have been plenty of ugly incidents in the press caused by nimby's getting pissed off with overcrowding and bad behaviour. Legislation against foreign tourists would probably make matters far worse.

Some of the worst problems are caused by Kiwis exercising their God given right to holiday at the beach and get wankered every night.

Financially even the most tight arsed freedom campers - some are card carrying bludgers - still contribute a lot to local economies. It's impossible to move around the country without spending.

My home town is creating a dedicated area for freedom campers with security lighting, toilets, showers, potty bin etc. This to my mind is the way forward. It's creating work to accomplish, brings in business for our wee highstreet and allows for positive interaction between the locals and tourists. A lot of perceived problems come from visitors just being ignorant of how we roll. Admittedly, some are just arseholes, though very few. Some are just really crap drivers...

We should take a breath now and look at how the country and communities can accommodate freedom campers with better facilities and areas to stay.
This is good for Kiwi's, too. Better facilities for us when we do big jaunts on the bikes...

[george formby]

You could offer a bikini drying service... and if you don't have a dryer, just hold the bikini to your face for 1 minute and read the above at them. Sorted ;)

Do they have to remove the bikini?

[husaberg]

We are right in the thick of it up here in the Bay of Islands, maybe not quite Queenstown levels, though.

Over the years my feelings have been for and against battered old vans filled with Euro yoof cluttering up the roads and beachsides.

Restricting freedom camping to Kiwis only is un-policeable and their have been plenty of ugly incidents in the press caused by nimby's getting pissed off with overcrowding and bad behaviour. Legislation against foreign tourists would probably make matters far worse.

Some of the worst problems are caused by Kiwis exercising their God given right to holiday at the beach and get wankered every night.

Financially even the most tight arsed freedom campers - some are card carrying bludgers - still contribute a lot to local economies. It's impossible to move around the country without spending.

My home town is creating a dedicated area for freedom campers with security lighting, toilets, showers, potty bin etc. This to my mind is the way forward. It's creating work to accomplish, brings in business for our wee highstreet and allows for positive interaction between the locals and tourists. A lot of perceived problems come from visitors just being ignorant of how we roll. Admittedly, some are just arseholes, though very few. Some are just really crap drivers...

We should take a breath now and look at how the country and communities can accommodate freedom campers with better facilities and areas to stay.
This is good for Kiwi's, too. Better facilities for us when we do big jaunts on the bikes...


We get shit loads of freedom campers in our distrrict and they spend buggar all.
Maybe a few noodles at the supermarket and some McDonald's or fish in chips, yet the local ratepayers in the district are the ones who have to pay to clean up their turds and rubbish as they cant spend $20 on a campground or be bothered using the rubbish bins.
Why should a local community that gets next to nothing out of a freadom camper "have to pay for the free facilities" for them.
Get rid of the non self contained vans or van for hire or charge the companies clean up fees. At least with the old dunger vans they had to buy them and pay for them to get fixed
The money freedom campers bring in is restricted to the place where they hire the camper and the airport they arrive in.

[george formby]

We get shit loads of freedom campers in our distrrict and they spend buggar all.
Maybe a few noodles at the supermarket and some McDonald's or fish in chips, yet the local ratepayers in the district are the ones who have to pay to clean up their turds and rubbish as they cant spend $20 on a campground or be bothered using the rubbish bins.
Why should a local community that gets next to nothing out of a freadom camper "have to pay for the free facilities" for them.
Get rid of the non self contained vans or van for hire or charge the companies clean up fees. At least with the old dunger vans they had to buy them and pay for them to get fixed
The money freedom campers bring in is restricted to the place where they hire the camper and the airport they arrive in.

I've felt this way, too. I also agree that communities should not be footing the bill for ongoing clean up and repair after the wankers have visited.

Much discussion has been had about legislation, van requirements, costs and surcharges. Issues for a greater mind than mine.

I guess the attitude here has become one of finding the silver lining and investing a relatively small amount of money to minimise the problems, make it easier to identify the few who abuse our area and get a long term return in the community, even if it is just a tank of gas, pot noodles or visit to the pub while the washing is doing it's thing at the laundrette.

I can only comment from my local bubble. There may be much bigger issues elsewhere but I doubt heavy handed legislation would have a positive effect.

Can we add cruise ships and their, alleged, economic contribution to this conversation.....?

[caspernz]

Freedom camping quickly takes on an emotive tone when discussed in a group setting. My first hand experiences with so-called freedom campers are limited, and if those are anything to go by, the stereotype is more or less on point.

Are freedom campers the fruit pickers the country needs? Don't know, that's a wider topic all in itself.
From what I've seen so far, not all freedom campers are from another country, even if the media would have us believe otherwise.

The ability to freedom camp varies around the world, perhaps a revisit of the NZ 2011 Freedom Camping Act to adopt best practice from around the world?
Reading the Freedom Camping Act 2011 suggests it's fairly robust, so is it just a lack of enforcement causing the bad sentiment?

[BMW_BeMyWings]

I always get suspicious when there is a "problem" with an onbvious easy solution but nobody attempts to fix it.

Freedom camper problem because they don't pay? Well then make them pay. Here is an easy fix:

If you want to freedom camp you need to have a freedom camping sticker on your windscreen. You can buy this at every post office. It is an easy system change of the already existing rego sticker printing. You buy 1, 2, 3 , 6 months etc and you need to show it on your windscreen. If you are a resident you could get that sticker free or at an reduced rate. If you behave like an ar*e your sticker gets taken away from you.

We do this sort of thing already for people who are allowed to use disabled parking and I believe parking areas for "residents only".

So where is the problem?

[jasonu]

We get shit loads of freedom campers in our distrrict and they spend buggar all.
Maybe a few noodles at the supermarket and some McDonald's or fish in chips, yet the local ratepayers in the district are the ones who have to pay to clean up their turds and rubbish as they cant spend $20 on a campground or be bothered using the rubbish bins.
Why should a local community that gets next to nothing out of a freadom camper "have to pay for the free facilities" for them.
Get rid of the non self contained vans or van for hire or charge the companies clean up fees. At least with the old dunger vans they had to buy them and pay for them to get fixed
The money freedom campers bring in is restricted to the place where they hire the camper and the airport they arrive in.


Agree 100%


Did someone with a brain hack your account and post using your name?

[Oakie]

I always get suspicious when there is a "problem" with an onbvious easy solution but nobody attempts to fix it.

Freedom camper problem because they don't pay? Well then make them pay. Here is an easy fix:

If you want to freedom camp you need to have a freedom camping sticker on your windscreen. You can buy this at every post office. It is an easy system change of the already existing rego sticker printing. You buy 1, 2, 3 , 6 months etc and you need to show it on your windscreen. If you are a resident you could get that sticker free or at an reduced rate. If you behave like an ar*e your sticker gets taken away from you.

We do this sort of thing already for people who are allowed to use disabled parking and I believe parking areas for "residents only".

So where is the problem?

Now don't come on here with your logic and common sense. This is KiwiBiker.

I agree with what you've said and if perhaps they were only allowed to stay in specific 'freedom camping approved' locations perhaps with toilets that might be OK. Tough on ratepayers in sparsly populated areas like the MacKenzie Basin though. A beautiful area attracting many freedom campers but with only a small pool of ratepayers to pay for their facilities.

[george formby]

I always get suspicious when there is a "problem" with an onbvious easy solution but nobody attempts to fix it.

Freedom camper problem because they don't pay? Well then make them pay. Here is an easy fix:

If you want to freedom camp you need to have a freedom camping sticker on your windscreen. You can buy this at every post office. It is an easy system change of the already existing rego sticker printing. You buy 1, 2, 3 , 6 months etc and you need to show it on your windscreen. If you are a resident you could get that sticker free or at an reduced rate. If you behave like an ar*e your sticker gets taken away from you.

We do this sort of thing already for people who are allowed to use disabled parking and I believe parking areas for "residents only".

So where is the problem?

Oh, look. A greater mind than mine. :2thumbsup

[Okey Dokey]

Having lived in North Otago for the previous dozen years or so I got to witness a lot of the mess left behind by the "Freedom Crappers" and it's not a pretty sight. One rest area near Lake Dunstan on SH8, the council cleared away 8 ton off rubbish a week, they had to also install extra portaloos to help cope with the load. That is only one site. They are very quick to find areas where they can camp up and not cost anything. A couple of years ago the Dunedin City Council set up some car parks with skips and portaloos for freedom crappers to use, a few months later they said it was a great success and quoted some figures of how much money in total the freedom crappers had spent plus how many nights stayed and how many had used it. A quick calculation and I worked out that each person had spent $30 per night! not exactly a great money spinner.
As far as seasonal workers go, yes some do do casual work but not like the numbers that use to. I've spoken to some orcharist who say that it is a struggle to get casual labour now and resort to getting Islanders in to do the work. Ten years ago there was plenty of young people willing to work as they had to earn some money so they could continue their travels, but today's freedom crappers, "mummy and daddy" pay for their travels.
So should freedom crappers be banned? Yes and no, only those with fully self contained motorhomes or caravans can freedom camp, all others, in their shitboxes, must stay in campgrounds and pay for the privilege. All self contained campers must be certified.
And while we're on the subject, are there too many tourists coming to NZ? We could do what Madagascar does and limit the number allowed each year and make them pay for the privilege.
This is written by Mr Okey Dokey.

[Blackbird]

When I rode round East Cape at the end of February, the locals were well-represented in tents at many of the spots freedom campers might choose for a stop. National flag up and staring at passers-by. No sign of a problem with freedom campers or anyone else stopping in that area!

[pritch]

specific 'freedom camping approved' locations

Which is a direct contradiction of the term 'freedom camping'.

It can be frustrating. There is a car park at the local river mouth for people fishing, white baiting, walking their dog, surfing, or other such normal river mouth activities.

Toilets were installed nearby for people using the coastal walkway and the carpark became populated by freedom campers. This despite the fact that the council owned camping ground complete with all normal amenities is a coupla hundred yards along the beach.

There has been outraged indignation expressed in the local rag by the usual nimby types, most of whom probably never visit the area. Things have been quiet of late so it might be that some sort of resolution has been reached. Or that the attention has just moved elsewhere?

[Gearup]

Apparently freedom campers spend millions while here:https://www.odt.co.nz/business/what-freedom-campers-are-worth-nz

[mashman]

Do they have to remove the bikini?

I reckon that'd have to be discussed. After all, no one wants to lose an eye.

[Murray]

something to worry about next year. cant see international visitors until at least then. (hopefully Aussie & Pacific excluded)

[jasonu]

When I rode round East Cape at the end of February, the locals were well-represented in tents at many of the spots freedom campers might choose for a stop. National flag up and staring at passers-by. No sign of a problem with freedom campers or anyone else stopping in that area!

Perfect!!!

[OddDuck]

Yeah... I wouldn't worry about it until the whole 14-day isolation on arrival thing is over. And airflight prices and flight numbers return to what they were prior, too.

And most of all... ordinary people having the saving ability to buy an airfare and pay for an international holiday, even the cheapie that is the freedom camper. Global downturn anyone?

Things have changed. Maybe that's permanent, maybe it's actually a good thing. I for one won't be missing them.

[Berries]

It does seem odd that a country famed for their youth doing the big OE and freedom camping all over Europe has this view.

Only joking, it is not odd at all. Happy to take their money for years and provide them with fuck all facilities and then wonder why they shit in the bushes.

Luckily they are mostly European. If they were Chinese I suspect we would have seen lynchings by now.

[MD]

It does seem odd that a country famed for their youth doing the big OE and freedom camping all over Europe has this view.

Only joking, it is not odd at all. Happy to take their money for years and provide them with fuck all facilities and then wonder why they shit in the bushes.

Luckily they are mostly European. If they were Chinese I suspect we would have seen lynchings by now.

I've posted this comment on here before. I did my OE at 21 hitching across Ireland, UK Europe and so on, I did do it on a budget, slept rough on beaches, parks at times . BUT I NEVER SHIT ON SOMEONE ELSE'S COUNTRY. I doesn't take much effort to find a loo, simply time your body functions to when you are buying coffee or a feed in a café/pub- and in doing so contributing a bit to the local economy.

For years I enjoyed stopping on the southern shore of Lake Taupo on my rides to visit my folks and have a swim. That stopped abruptly to my horror several years ago when I removed my helmet and the stench of human poo almost made me throw up. Shit piles were everywhere along with poo stained paper. There was a toilet installed nearby. All I could conclude was these people were so entrenched in the habit of shitting against a tree at a road side as acceptable, that walking 20m to a toilet was too big an ask.

If anything good comes from Covid it's that we are rid of these filthy, selfish, parasites calling themselves tourists or travellers. Tourists/traveller journey to other countries to experience the beauty, not ruin it.

I like the idea posted earlier that they pay for a 'Freedom Camping' window display and must stay in designated camping sites- with facilities.

[pritch]

It's not just the freedom campers and it's not just here. The Sherpa people living in the vicinity of Everest refer to shit stained pieces of paper as "white man's prayer flags."

[Berries]

If anything good comes from Covid it's that we are rid of these filthy, selfish, parasites calling themselves tourists or travellers.
I imagine the Greeks, the Dutch, the Irish (and Nepalese) and every other country in the world thinks the same.


I did do it on a budget, slept rough on beaches, parks at times.
Which kind of confirms my point. It was good enough for New Zealanders to do it back in the day in the old non self contained Kombi but fuck those dirty foreigners who dare to do the same here.

[husaberg]

I imagine the Greeks, the Dutch, the Irish (and Nepalese) and every other country in the world thinks the same.


Which kind of confirms my point. It was good enough for New Zealanders to do it back in the day in the old non self contained Kombi but fuck those dirty foreigners who dare to do the same here.

You said it yourself "back in the day". Back in the day is not today.......
Nor is your scale even anywhere near even, as a few thousand Kiwis the same as 100,000 of thousands of tourists.
all those countries no longer tolerate what we do here in NZ.
Freedom camping in NZ went from 54,000 in 2013 to 123,000 in 2018.
How many kiwis do the same overseas now?

[Berries]

Freedom camping in NZ went from 54,000 in 2013 to 123,000 in 2018.
How many kiwis do the same overseas now?
Don't know but pretty sure none of them want to crap behind a tree, pretty sure some will.

It's all well and good whoring the country around the trade shows so you can go from 54,000 to 123,000 in five years and allowing all those companies to rent out vans with no facilities. Shame some of the money wasn't put in to infrastructure. Otago and Southland have more stock truck effluent sites on state highways than rest areas with toilets.

So with no international visitors for the next couple of years there will be a massive push for domestic tourism and all those shitty old campers will slowly get back on the road at cheap rates. No more infrastructure so the problem won't go away.


I skim read an opinion piece the other day that stuck in my mind. It said that in the reboot of our economy and as part of the rehash of how we do tourism, we should prohibit 'Freedom Camping' to all but NZers wanting to see thier own country.
This won't change the amount of toilet paper flapping around the undergrowth.

[MD]

I imagine the Greeks, the Dutch, the Irish (and Nepalese) and every other country in the world thinks the same.


Which kind of confirms my point. It was good enough for New Zealanders to do it back in the day in the old non self contained Kombi but fuck those dirty foreigners who dare to do the same here.

You conveniently overlooked my statement, 'back in the day' myself and my friends I travelled with never shit in other peoples bushes/countryside. Back in the day we had the decency to find a loo. My point is if people today can't be bothered finding a loo, then don't have them as guests in our country.

[Laava]

Certainly a good opportunity to do a big "reset" on the whole tourism industry as and where needed.

[Berries]

You conveniently overlooked my statement, 'back in the day' myself and my friends I travelled with never shit in other peoples bushes/countryside. Back in the day we had the decency to find a loo. My point is if people today can't be bothered finding a loo, then don't have them as guests in our country.
Wasn't overlooking it, just didn't think you admitting to doing what 99 percent of the rest of us would do was worth a comment. Doesn't change the fact that I don't believe that New Zealanders are any different to any other nationality when it comes to this.

[pritch]

In his book Hugh Anderson recounts taking an 'al fresco' dump in Cold War Russia. He had been told not to stop or deviate from his route but nature called. Back on the road driving along, a police car lights flashing stopped him wanting to know where he'd been. He had to take them back and show them the evidence.

[husaberg]

Don't know but pretty sure none of them want to crap behind a tree, pretty sure some will.

It's all well and good whoring the country around the trade shows so you can go from 54,000 to 123,000 in five years and allowing all those companies to rent out vans with no facilities. Shame some of the money wasn't put in to infrastructure. Otago and Southland have more stock truck effluent sites on state highways than rest areas with toilets.

So with no international visitors for the next couple of years there will be a massive push for domestic tourism and all those shitty old campers will slowly get back on the road at cheap rates. No more infrastructure so the problem won't go away.


This won't change the amount of toilet paper flapping around the undergrowth.
You are missing the point with the numbers we are not sending people overseas at anywhere near the scale they are freadom camping here.
The money that gets put into infrastructure is ratepayers, not government, so in case you missed it its not from the people that benefit from the tourists.
Put it in perspective why should the 30,000 residents of the west coast pay for toilets for tourists when we benefit nothing form their presence.
especially given we have plenty of Doc camps and private campgrounds that cost very little for the tourists? only they are too cheap to use them.

[Gearup]

The money that gets put into infrastructure is ratepayers, not government, so in case you missed it its not from the people that benefit from the tourists.



The Government has provided $16.5 million recently:https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/404610/apps-solar-cameras-to-assist-councils-handle-freedom-campers

[husaberg]

The Government has provided $16.5 million recently:https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/404610/apps-solar-cameras-to-assist-councils-handle-freedom-campers

$780,000 for some infrastructure that locals must maintain. who do you think pays to cart away the skipsand empty the toilets.
the funding stopped April 2019
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast/free-campsites-stay-buller-facilities-uncertain
so people can camp for free............
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110442577/free-camping-sites-angers-locals-divides-west-coast-council

[Gearup]

$780,000 for some infrastructure that locals must maintain. who do you think pays to cart away the skipsand empty the toilets.
the funding stopped April 2019
https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/west-coast/free-campsites-stay-buller-facilities-uncertain
so people can camp for free............
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/110442577/free-camping-sites-angers-locals-divides-west-coast-council


Well $780,000 is still something from the Government unlike your claim that they didn't pay anything.

They camp for free because they are allowed to under the 2011 Freedom Camping Act.

Maybe you could ask your local retailers etc to stop serving them if it's such a problem...

[Grumph]

Well $780,000 is still something from the Government unlike your claim that they didn't pay anything.

They camp for free because they are allowed to under the 2011 Freedom Camping Act.

Maybe you could ask your local retailers etc to stop serving them if it's such a problem...

It is - and some already have.
Locally, I'm pissed that my rates - which should be going to fix a local flooding problem - are going on upgrading and maintenance of toilets at Coes Ford and Arthurs Pass for these parasites.

If they were crapping in Queen St, the problem would be fixed pronto. But an Auckland based company which sends out visitors to crap all over NZ - and gives nothing back other than taxes - just what the rest of NZ expects of Auckland.
I can assure you that there was very little sympathy - and a lot of amusement - down here when Jucy had those vehicles stolen. Less of them on the roads.

Personally I like the old Russian system. All tourists had a guide with them and stayed in approved accomodation. That would make jobs for those who have lost theirs in that sector.
I don't suggest we go as far as to bug the accomodation - but it's worth considering.

[Gearup]

It is - and some already have.
Locally, I'm pissed that my rates - which should be going to fix a local flooding problem - are going on upgrading and maintenance of toilets at Coes Ford and Arthurs Pass for these parasites.

If they were crapping in Queen St, the problem would be fixed pronto. But an Auckland based company which sends out visitors to crap all over NZ - and gives nothing back other than taxes - just what the rest of NZ expects of Auckland.
I can assure you that there was very little sympathy - and a lot of amusement - down here when Jucy had those vehicles stolen. Less of them on the roads.

Personally I like the old Russian system. All tourists had a guide with them and stayed in approved accomodation. That would make jobs for those who have lost theirs in that sector.
I don't suggest we go as far as to bug the accomodation - but it's worth considering.


There's been a fair share of drama caused by freedom campers up here too. Auckland Council is struggling a bit with the issue too from what I've read.

I'm certainly no fan of Jucy or any other camper van company and yes, less on the roads would be good.

In post #15, I supplied a link about the income generated by freedom campers, it's not unsubstantial. However, it could be spent much more effectively all over and that's not happening.

[jasonu]

Well $780,000 is still something from the Government unlike your claim that they didn't pay anything.

They camp for free because they are allowed to under the 2011 Freedom Camping Act.

Maybe you could ask your local retailers etc to stop serving them if it's such a problem...

Does the 2011 Freedom Camping Act say anything about not shitting in the sand dunes or was it assumed or expected the freedom campers wouldn't be so scummy?

[Berries]

Did the turd have a flag in it or something?

[husaberg]

Well $780,000 is still something from the Government unlike your claim that they didn't pay anything.

They camp for free because they are allowed to under the 2011 Freedom Camping Act.

Maybe you could ask your local retailers etc to stop serving them if it's such a problem...


Like i said the rate payers are expected to maintain the camps empty the rubbish and the toilets although they get nothing from the freedom campers.
WTF would we want to do this.
780,00 is a penitence it buit about 3 camps with afew toilet blocks, heres a clue
23,276 km is the land area. 80% of that is not rateable as its a national park for whcih the crown pays no rates
31,575 people in 13000 house holds can not be expected to pay for the 1 million tourists we get a year, You do the Maths.
There are plenty of camping grounds if they have no self contained camper or if they cant be bothered stuming up the pitence for aspace at a camping ground they dont get to camp
If a few turds isnt a problem, just pm your address and i will courier you a turds from some freedom campers. you can get rid of them.
how about you take the time to figure out why its an issue


hint freedom campers do not as a right get to camp or shit anyway but in a toilet
The Freedom Camping Act 2011 received Royal assent on 29 August 2011, and is administered jointly by the Department of Internal Affairs and the Department of Conservation.
This Act gives local authorities and the Department of Conservation the flexibility to decide where freedom camping is prohibited or restricted.


20Offences
(1)
Every person commits an offence who—
(a)
freedom camps in a local authority area in breach of any prohibition or restriction in a bylaw made under section 11 that applies to the area; or

deposits waste in or on the area (other than into an appropriate waste receptacle);
In this section, waste receptacle means a receptacle or facility that is provided by a local authority or the Department for the purposes of disposing of waste (for example, a rubbish bin, public toilet, or bulk waste disposal unit).

[caspernz]

31,575 people in 13000 house holds can not be expected to pay for the 1 million tourists we get a year, You do the Maths.
There are plenty of camping grounds if they have no self contained camper or if they cant be bothered stuming up the pitence for aspace at a camping ground they dont get to camp

The Freedom Camping Act 2011 received Royal assent on 29 August 2011, and is administered jointly by the Department of Internal Affairs and the Department of Conservation.
This Act gives local authorities and the Department of Conservation the flexibility to decide where freedom camping is prohibited or restricted.

In the lower population density areas it quickly becomes a numbers game, the few locals paying for the many tourists. This suggests government support via some mechanism, some valid suggestions made by previous posters.

To me it's quite simple, in my home country freedom camping is all but forbidden, so if I wanna tour the country on a budget it's done by campgrounds. Given it's not 1975 anymore, no reason NZ can't follow the western world.

[Gearup]

Like i said the rate payers are expected to maintain the camps empty the rubbish and the toilets although they get nothing from the freedom campers.
WTF would we want to do this.
780,00 is a penitence it buit about 3 camps with afew toilet blocks, heres a clue
23,276 km is the land area. 80% of that is not rateable as its a national park for whcih the crown pays no rates
31,575 people in 13000 house holds can not be expected to pay for the 1 million tourists we get a year, You do the Maths.
There are plenty of camping grounds if they have no self contained camper or if they cant be bothered stuming up the pitence for aspace at a camping ground they dont get to camp
If a few turds isnt a problem, just pm your address and i will courier you a turds from some freedom campers. you can get rid of them.
how about you take the time to figure out why its an issue


hint freedom campers do not as a right get to camp or shit anyway but in a toilet
The Freedom Camping Act 2011 received Royal assent on 29 August 2011, and is administered jointly by the Department of Internal Affairs and the Department of Conservation.
This Act gives local authorities and the Department of Conservation the flexibility to decide where freedom camping is prohibited or restricted.


Refer to my reply to Grumph for my thoughts on it all ie: funding.

[husaberg]

Refer to my reply to Grumph for my thoughts on it all ie: funding.

you have zero idea of how it works
or how little revenue is returned to ratepayers from tourism.
If tourism s so lucrative how is it it has to be funded by ratepayersrather then the industry about we fund free campgrounds and maintenance it all for the world freddom campers from Airport arrival tax.
Most Tourists dont come to NZ to see Auckland

[Gearup]

you have zero idea of how it works
or how little revenue is returned to ratepayers from tourism.
If tourism s so lucrative how is it it has to be funded by ratepayersrather then the industry about we fund free campgrounds and maintenance it all for the world freddom campers from Airport arrival tax.
Most Tourists dont come to NZ to see Auckland


Lolz, it's not about ratepayers or arrival tax.

How about "You do the maths" and work out the GST component on the $530 million freedom camper income and you'll see how much the Government really has to spend on the regions.

[husaberg]

Lolz, it's not about ratepayers or arrival tax.

How about "You do the maths" and work out the GST component on the $530 million freedom camper income and you'll see how much the Government really has to spend on the regions.

Are you not right in the head, if its such a money spinner for the Country as a whole, why are ratepayers, with no income generated from tourism who just happen to live somewhere the parasites like to visit, paying for it then?
last time i looked i get nothing of a dividend from either New World Countdown or Mobil Mcdonalds or KFC or Jucy rentals you dullard.
You just talk yourself around in circles. You have no answers, or it seems clues either. you have no comprehension, as to why a farmer is expected to pay to clean up the turds of a German tourist who is to lazy and too cheap to use a toilet.
Don't reply, you are gong on ignore.
you are the same sort of Stupid self centered Dorklander who expects the world to pay for its roads and aversion ot public transport.
yet expects the provences to pay for tourists shitting in the countryside when they pay the toll in Auckaland for entry for the whole country.

[Gearup]

Are you not right in the head, if its such a money spinner for the Country as a whole, why is it are ratepayers with no income generated from tourism whio just happen to live somewhere the parasites like to visit paying for it then?
last time i looked i get nothing of a dividend from either New World Countdown or Mobil Mcdonalds or KFC or Jucy rentals you dullard.
You just talk yourself arround in circles. you have no answers or it seems clues either.


I'm not sure what you're on about (or on) with the "why is it are ratepayers..." and the dividends bit but clearly you can't compose a decent post so I'm out.

[TheDemonLord]

last time i looked i get nothing of a dividend from either New World Countdown or Mobil Mcdonalds or KFC or Jucy rentals you dullard.


2 words:

Money Velocity.

For a more in depth explanation - I'll use myself as an Example:

Tourist comes to NZ - Tourist visits McShit and buys a Big Mac Combo for $12.40.

That income to McDonalds gets split among various things: 4% to the global Franchise, some of it on raw materials, some of it on Wages etc. and some of it is pure profit.

Of that profit, some might get re-invested into the business, by way of paying contractors to come to the store and repair things, build things, do things etc.

So, a portion of the revenue from that Tourist has gone via McDonalds to some local contractor, who will likely spend some of it on his Mortgage, business loan, raw materials, wages etc. and on his business expenses - such as IT.

Regardless of what industry you are in, an increase in Money Velocity and an influx of money is always a good thing, even if you are not the primary, secondary or tertiary beneficiary of it, you will by proxy benefit.

TL;DR - More people buying shit locally is good for the Local economy.

As for Freedom Campers - Sure, some of them take the piss, but then - most of us were young and broke at one point in our lives and so did things on the cheap using dubious methods.

Although there's a twinge of irony at the 'outrage' against 'the foreigner' who is 'ruining our land and squandering our taxes' and who it's coming from, they are starting to sound like the God Emperor Trump....

[Berries]

If tourism s so lucrative how is it it has to be funded by ratepayersrather then the industry
Because in many cases for the industry it was purely a numbers game. Now they are going to have to rethink all that, and rethink their pricing structure because New Zealanders are not going to pay the rip off prices that someone on a once in a lifetime world trip might, whether it is for a burger in Queenstown, luge in Rotorua, jetboat ride anywhere or the hire of a self contained campervan for two fucking grand a week.

And they are certainly not going to put up with the lack of toilets.

[MarkH]

I'm fine with freedom camping for locals and foreigners (whenever they return), but would love to see better policing and stronger penalties for those that make a mess. Why should we tolerate anyone treating our country as a rubbish dump and/or toilet?

[pritch]

It seems a bit simple but how difficult would it be to mandate that all camper vans be self contained?

[MD]

It seems a bit simple but how difficult would it be to mandate that all camper vans be self contained?

Too easily circumvented by driving a station wagon or people carrier, which many have been using for some years now for cheap travel around the country. No sir it's not a campervan. I'm transporting that mattress in the back to a friend.

[Berries]

It seems a bit simple but how difficult would it be to mandate that all camper vans be self contained?
You can't do much about people kipping in their own van or station wagon but the government could surely prohibit the rental of non self contained vans that are fitted with sleeping facilities a la the very cheap end of the market. They would seem to be the majority of the issue here. The problem is, to the government, that if these vehicles are not available some of these people may decide not to visit NZ. Can't imagine anyone in this thread sees an issue with that but if you are just looking at the bottom line of international arrival numbers as I am sure some organisations are then this would be a concern.

Moot point now anyway. The industry is going to be fucked for years.

[husaberg]

You can't do much about people kipping in their own van or station wagon but the government could surely prohibit the rental of non self contained vans that are fitted with sleeping facilities a la the very cheap end of the market. They would seem to be the majority of the issue here. The problem is, to the government, that if these vehicles are not available some of these people may decide not to visit NZ. Can't imagine anyone in this thread sees an issue with that but if you are just looking at the bottom line of international arrival numbers as I am sure some organisations are then this would be a concern.

Moot point now anyway. The industry is going to be fucked for years.

lets see they come here in ever increasing numbers to see its natural scenic beauty, but then cant resist the urge shit all over the place ruining the unspoilt natural beauty spending a penny that is costing the locals a dollar to clean up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bk5GvuGwBs

[MD]

I can live with the country not earning a few pennies and in return I can breathe the clean fresh air and not worry about stepping in human poo.

[Okey Dokey]

It seems a bit simple but how difficult would it be to mandate that all camper vans be self contained?
Not so long ago there was a letter in the ODT by the chap in charge of enforcing the "Freedom camping rules" for the Queenstown council. He had quite a few good comments about it, and one being that self contained vans be certified similar to getting an electrical certificate. Only done every couple of years and that grey water tank and septic tank are there! and every thing works. He made the comment that after inquiring into a young couple in their Mazda station wagon, that the "Self contained" sticker on the back of the car meant that it should have a toilet and grey water tank, they produced a bucket, complete with price sticker and a empty 20ltr container, in equally new condition, as their ablutions kit. And as he said he couldn't do anything about as that is how the law has been written.
There is a bit of piss being taken now, as I saw a mini with a "Self contained" sticker on it the other day and if the Bureaucrats can't figure it out, then we have no hope.

[Naki Rat]

Yeah... I wouldn't worry about it until the whole 14-day isolation on arrival thing is over. And airflight prices and flight numbers return to what they were prior, too.

And most of all... ordinary people having the saving ability to buy an airfare and pay for an international holiday, even the cheapie that is the freedom camper. Global downturn anyone?

Things have changed. Maybe that's permanent, maybe it's actually a good thing. I for one won't be missing them.Cheap airfares is a big part of the reason we're where we are right now. Back in the 1960s a trip to Europe or the States was the preserve of the wealthy but prices have been at levels over the past few decades that have seen international travel become available to one and all. I travelled regularly to SE Asia for work in the early 1980s and the prices have changed little since then, and in real dollar terms have dropped.

I strongly suspect that airfares as cheap as what were considered normal over the past decade or two are a long way off, if ever. The much reduced selection of airlines who can survive this period will then have to fund rebuilding and recommissioning their fleets which will all make for expensive travel. The freedom camper problem will probably solve itself based on affordability issues well after quarantine measures are relaxed for all those potential plague carriers.

[Swoop]

Perhaps if the gubbinment went to the Lonely Planet books and strongly suggested a "we do not shit in the open in NZ" bit, included in the relevant areas of the LP book for NZ?

Just an idea.

[Blackbird]

First day post-lockdown today and the Coromandel Peninsula was full of grey nomads in their winged-emblemed campervans. At least they were all big enough to have proper toilets. I guess they're all making up for lost time before winter but it's got to be good for Peninsula businesses, especially camping grounds.

[Laava]

First day post-lockdown today and the Coromandel Peninsula was full of grey nomads in their winged-emblemed campervans. At least they were all big enough to have proper toilets. I guess they're all making up for lost time before winter but it's got to be good for Peninsula businesses, especially camping grounds.
Was exactly the same in the far north, and also a massive stream of people heading up there towing boats.

[Blackbird]

Was exactly the same in the far north, and also a massive stream of people heading up there towing boats.

Yep, just the same at Coro. At 0830 yesterday, there must have been over 100 trailers parked near the Waikawau ramp up the Thames Coast with more boats heading up as I went south to Hamilton. There were also a lot more bikes on the road than you would normally see on a weekday too. I had my KTM serviced at Boyds and they were really organised for contact tracing with both sign-in logbooks or a QR code reader. Bottles of sanitiser everywhere.

[husaberg]

Cysticercosis: Occasionally, Cysticercus bovis cysts have been foundin beef carcasses at slaughter in New Zealand There are no reports
of human Taenia saginata infestations having been contracted inNew Zealand. Our cattle are presumed to have become infected after
eating pasture contaminated by faeces from humans who contractedthe parasite overseas.
This occurred down on a farm southland way a few years ago.

[R650R]

We were going to visit the Costa Blanca area (Spain). The Covid situation ruined all the plans. Not sure that even in 2021 it will be possible to go there with my own van. I don't know what to expect from these self-isolating countries.
That is my possible destination https://www.starck-estates.com/backoffice/uploadImages/post/3/AdobeStock_73168068.jpg (https://virtoproperty.com/info/best-places-to-buy-a-property-in-spain) It is Benidorm, a small resort by the sea which some 50 years ago was just a regular village with a 1000 dwellers or so but today it has more tourists than local citizens :niceone:

Might have saved you from seeing some beef curtains
https://youtu.be/lqyGMXfVZqk

Meanwhile back in NZ MP Mash Potatoe is pledging to ban roadside shitting and basically freedom camping and says we need to aim at high end of market. Going on his previous track record though....

[Berries]

Meanwhile back in NZ MP Mash Potatoe is pledging to ban roadside shitting and basically freedom camping and says we need to aim at high end of market. Going on his previous track record though....
Well, if they aren't going to put any infrastructure in place people are still going to shit in the bushes and for the next couple of years it will be another thing we cant blame on those fucking tourists.


Benidorm looks a bit different to when I was there in 1977. Where have the donkeys gone?

[RDJ]

The Gnasher is a stereotypical example of why people become politicians, because there is no possible way humanoids like him could earn that money and those benefits when having to compete with competent people.

It does not at all speak well for his electorate that they continue to vote him back in. But then, the same could be said for multiple orders of magnitude of New Zealand citizens who returned the Princess of the Pestilence with a majority that was supposed to have been unobtainable by MMP.

Not that there could be any possibility of election fraud in GodZone. Oh no. That would be Unkind. And we all know, she is all about being 110% Kind. Even if Not wearing a mask for Selfies, Deflecting all criticism with Neve, and Sucking like a black hole on the teat of the UN.

[Dadpole]

Or you could just suck up those tears and accept that the majority disagree with you.