Support NZ Business - yeh right !!!!

[rustys]

Never had a Rant on here before, so seeing iam doing nothing, i thought i would say my bit.
After this Covid (thing) they keep saying support your local business, ... i have been waiting to get Timber prices, and sent 8 emails and 3 phone calls to the company i normally deal with over the last 3 weeks and still hav'nt got any confirmation, or an invoice to make payment on, (i know some companies have been unindated with work load sure), but god knows when i will even get the product, to start my jobs.:mad:
Trying to get a headlight bulb from Auckland for one of my bikes, after emailing part numbers and even sending photo's, what a drama, thats also been close to 3 weeks.:angry2:
I have just recieved a set of YSS CB750 shocks from Italy one week delivered, also a set of Megaphone mufflers for the Honda again one week delivery UK.:2thumbsup
By god sometimes i have no simpathy for NZ business's going down the gurggler, they certainly need some PR skills and understand what service is about.
Looks like EBay will still keep getting my custom.:yes:

[austingtir]

Yeah.... Nah bro.



Theres a point where people need to draw a line.

Im dealing with the same shit you are getting stuff delivered to make stuff. But I'll happily put up with it knowing china isnt getting a dime outta me.

[tri boy]

A headlight bulb from Akld to Welly?
Your kidding right:confused:

[nzspokes]

LOL, its called a pandemic.

My company is running at 3 times the order rate for the time of the year and the couriers are working at 1/3rd speed. :yawn:

[caspernz]

A headlight bulb from Akld to Welly?
Your kidding right:confused:

Glad it's not just me thinking that...:innocent:

[pete376403]

I ordered some items online from The Warehouse. Could not be collected from the local warehouse as that's inside a Mall which was closed, so had to be picked up from Petone. There was a $20 delivery charge on top - I guess this is for shipping from the distribution centre, not thrilled but she wanted it so... Warehouse will email or txt when the item is ready for collection. A week later, level 2 commences, I call in to see if item has arrived. "No, we will let you know." Wander round the store and what I have ordered is on the shelf. Purchase the item, talk to the returns person , find I cannot cancel the online at the store but have to do it online.
That night, go online and cancel the order and request a refund. Nothing happens for another week, when I get the email to say my order is ready for collection.
Go back to the store, item ordered cannot be found, they will call me when it turns up. Back to the returns desk.
Now that I have the email giving the details, they will take the return and refund BUT not the $20 delivery charge.

Request the email address or contact number of someone higher up that I can discuss this with. Cannot be provided. I guess I wil have to go online and find this myself.

[Katman]

To everyone who hoped we wouldn't go back to the old normal...…..

Seems like sweating the small shit still ranks highly with some.

[Trade_nancy]

To everyone who hoped we wouldn't go back to the old normal...…..

Seems like sweating the small shit still ranks highly with some.

Sounds like we are back. Shit service from local businesses...no stock..no interest in getting stock in unless you buy it for them first... and people order online from offshore again. How it was before.

[BMWST?]

they dont make it easy .went to a cafe the first weekend level 2.people were queued up.As we went in there was a website that you had to navigate to on your mobile to register(a hospitality association or something)...I was not surprised just about evryone was signing a book....at least a qr code to take you to that website please!(waas not the official tracing app)

[jasonu]

LOL, its called a pandemic.

My company is running at 3 times the order rate for the time of the year and the couriers are working at 1/3rd speed. :yawn:

Customer service in NZ was shit before the chinese bat flu came along. Once you have lived in other countries for a while then return to NZ the low standard of customer service is really noticeable.

[MarkH]

You fuckers must be buying from the wrong retailers!

I've bought a bunch of stuff from NZ retailers over the last couple of weeks, good service. Sure, courier delivery took 2 or 3 days longer, but I got my stuff. I got excellent service from motomox (as always) and I spent a few thousand at PBTech with no problems.

[pete376403]

You fuckers must be buying from the wrong retailers!

I've bought a bunch of stuff from NZ retailers over the last couple of weeks, good service. Sure, courier delivery took 2 or 3 days longer, but I got my stuff. I got excellent service from motomox (as always) and I spent a few thousand at PBTech with no problems.

Agreed. THe smaller retailers have got it. Its the big stores that didn't seem to get it so well.

[rustys]

I know over this Flu episode, everyones says shop on line, and seems to be pushing this form of shopping, thats ok, but when you go onto Companies/retailers websites and want to make contact regarding an item or ask a question, it takes ages before some gets back to you, or they never reply, that i find frustrating, sureley someone in the business is in charge of checking emails daily, if they want to make it work.

[rustys]

A headlight bulb from Akld to Welly?
Your kidding right:confused:

Yes, and still haven't got it, it was to be dispatched wednesday, (and the couriers are moving stuff through quickly now) its a Suzuki bike so i tried Suzuki Wellington with phone calls and messages no joy, so went to a Suzuki dealer in Auckland sent the year and model of the bike, what was on the bulb, and it was like ... ur... ah... dont have those....can you send some photos. How hard is sorting out a 2009 suzuki headlight bulb.

[jellywrestler]

Customer service in NZ was shit before the chinese bat flu came along. Once you have lived in other countries for a while then return to NZ the low standard of customer service is really noticeable.

well don't return

[jellywrestler]

Yes, and still haven't got it, it was to be dispatched wednesday, (and the couriers are moving stuff through quickly now) its a Suzuki bike so i tried Suzuki Wellington with phone calls and messages no joy, so went to a Suzuki dealer in Auckland sent the year and model of the bike, what was on the bulb, and it was like ... ur... ah... dont have those....can you send some photos. How hard is sorting out a 2009 suzuki headlight bulb.

it must be hard if you can't do it yourself, i order all my parts using the internaughty parts diagrams, and email the order in, no fucking around with phone calls etc. much easier

[rustys]

it must be hard if you can't do it yourself, i order all my parts using the internaughty parts diagrams, and email the order in, no fucking around with phone calls etc. much easier
Tried, nothing listed only all these new fangeled LED lights, so who knows if they fit, as it was they gave me a couple of options on the bulb, so even they were a little confused. Never mind its a nice day today.:sunny:

[pritch]

I've been ordering stuff online and deliveries have been pretty much normal, Auckland or Wellington to here should be overnight, it hasn't quite worked like that sometimes but it has been good.

Overseas might be a different story, there's a lot less traffic carrying freight. I'm waiting on a book, I'll be interested to see how long that takes. The last book arrived yesterday and took weeks longer than usual.

[Blackbird]

I've been ordering stuff online and deliveries have been pretty much normal, Auckland or Wellington to here should be overnight, it hasn't quite worked like that sometimes but it has been good.

Overseas might be a different story, there's a lot less traffic carrying freight. I'm waiting on a book, I'll be interested to see how long that takes. The last book arrived yesterday and took weeks longer than usual.

I ordered a Fitbit for my wife ex-Australia eBay on May 12 and it arrived yesterday. Ordered a sweatshirt from a US company I use regularly on May 1 and it arrived on the 29th May. That was a direct mailing, not through YouShop. Slower than normal. The slide and negative scanner I ordered from Auckland a couple of weeks ago took 2 days to get to Coromandel. Much faster than I expected under the circumstances. Our rural mail has been operating 6 days a week to address the backlog.

[jasonu]

well don't return

Pure genius

[MarkH]

Agreed. THe smaller retailers have got it. Its the big stores that didn't seem to get it so well.

Well, Motomox is a smaller retailer, but PBTech definitely can't be described as a smaller retailer. They have a dozen stores. I have placed half a dozen orders with them over the last 2 or 3 weeks - 2 click & collect and 4 couriered out. A couple of expensive items (totalling over $4k) and some cheaper stuff like cables. The only difference to normal would be ordering something on Friday and instead of the courier delivering it on Monday they don't show up until Thursday. But I get tracking that clearly shows the order was picked up on Friday, this means that PBTech did there job quickly but the couriers are insanely busy and there is a big delay due to that.

In the past I've had no issues with the service from bigger companies like Farmers, Briscoes, Smith City, Harvey Norman, Noel Leeming, Heathcotes, JB HiFi, Dick Smith, Torpedo 7 and others. I do order a lot from overseas, but not if I can get the same thing here at a reasonable price. It isn't really about a desire to support local businesses, it is to my advantage to buy in NZ for the consumer protection laws and in case of any need for the warranty. I've been sent a wrong item when buying from Amazon, but the item was worth less than it would have cost to send it back - I did message them and explained the situation, but they would do nothing for me unless I sent the item back. I've had better luck from Banggood when they sent me the wrong item, they sent out the right item without me needing to send the wrong one back - better customer service from China than from USA.

Overall I have found that customer service fails are rare from overseas and also rare in NZ, well over 90% of the time I've very happy with the service I get. So when I read "I got bad service from one or two companies, therefore customer service in NZ is shit" I just roll my eyes.

[BMWST?]

my old calculator died durig lockdown so goole pinted me pbtech.I am pretty sure it was around lunch time when i ordered it online fromthe wellington store,and i had it the next morning!

[nzspokes]

Customer service in NZ was shit before the chinese bat flu came along. Once you have lived in other countries for a while then return to NZ the low standard of customer service is really noticeable.

Funny and wrong. I deal with companies from around the world. US ones are the worst by a long way.

[nzspokes]

Agreed. THe smaller retailers have got it. Its the big stores that didn't seem to get it so well.

Its not that they dont get it, more scale. Most are at well over 3 times Xmas rush. Nobody expected such a big rush. Along with distancing required in warehouses halving staff allowed. Then it hits a courier system that is so overwhelmed from everybody ordering an un-needed widget.

No business planned for this. :blink:

[pritch]

Funny and wrong. I deal with companies from around the world. US ones are the worst by a long way.

Some US companies seem to consider we're at the end of the earth so they don't need to bother themselves. Others have been amazingly good, really gone out of their way.

The ones I've dealt with recently have all been on the ball and good to deal with.

[jasonu]

Funny and wrong. I deal with companies from around the world. US ones are the worst by a long way.

I wouldn't know about that.
The things I am thinking of are actually walking into a place of business, getting on the phone with my credit card company, electric company, phone carrier etc or dealing with my insurance company by phone, email or in person. Every day stuff we all do. I have done all these things in both countries and the general level of service in NZ is very lacking when compared to the level of service you get here.

[Naki Rat]

Agreed. THe smaller retailers have got it. Its the big stores that didn't seem to get it so well.As an online retailer (one man band from home) we've seen extremely high sales since level 4 ended as are many of our trade customers it would seem going by the orders they are placing. We are busy processing and dispatching orders as quickly as we usually do (out same day) and as our courier NZ Couriers haven't missed a beat. Delivery is typically next business day, plus a day for rural addresses. (For those that have identified slow delivery, what was the name on the courier van that showed up at your place?)

The way we're reading it is that many people have 'discovered' the joys of both internet shopping and home crafts as a result of lockdown, and the hassles involved in physical shopping such as contact tracing, hand sanitising and physical distancing is offputting and also an 'in your face' reminder that we are still battling an invisible enemy which many would much sooner be oblivious to. Long story short is that online shopping is tailor made for pandemic living.

Another problem is that many retailers didn't do the online thing well (if at all) before and their efforts at online retailing are definitely not coping with the current situation. Choosing a courier company based on lowest price is blowing up in their face and combined with the difficulties involved in maintaining social distancing of staff a far from pleasing shooping experience is resulting. The golden rules of e-retailing are an easily navigated informative website, good communication throughout the sales process and prompt delivery with full tracking. Many are failing on all of these. Their instore service was never that flash in many cases and they're now not making many friends with their online version.

We have found that international delivery of stock is a challenge recently. A surface mail shipment from our Canadian supplier in early January took 6 weeks longer than the usual 3 months. An attempt by our supplier to get us some advance stock to address the delay was met with Canada Post's refusal to accept airmail to NZ. Airfreighting advance stock from our Chinese supplier was quoted at double the previous pre-COVID rate with double the normal 7 day delivery. Our shipping agent regarded that as cheap as he's seen airfreight rates from North America quadruple recently. On the upside though our Airmail delivered orders into Aussie seem to be still getting there in the usual 4-10 day delivery time.

Personal deliveries from NZ suppliers have served to confirm our choice of courier. One item ended up at the wrong (pre-COVID) address which CourierPost's system didn't update but as their tracking system doesn't provide the delivery address details or proof of recipient we had to go hunting for that one. Orders from overseas suppliers (e.g. iHerb) progress as usual until they hit NZ and then spend 3-4 days awaiting dispatch from the Auckland sorting centre. This sort of delivery service makes the poor viability of NZ Post seem like an obvious result.

[sidecar bob]

During level three, I gave an NZ Post contractor a hand to get parcels from K Mart, into the system at the NZ Post depot.
We were pulling six van loads a day out of that one retailer alone. The Van's were absolutely full to the roof with softies poked in all the gaps & the front seats loaded up.
The posties were run ragged, they're getting somewhere down near Christmas loading now (the previous benchmark of fully tapped out for them)
It's hardly surprising they got a bit behind, they can't just pull extra Van's & staff out of their hat.

[Reckless]

I will try support NZ we dont need the country collapsing
BUT
This has been going Viral on Facebook some truth in these words.


Maybe time for a valid NZ passport to be 25% off??? Dunno just an Idea :brick:

Jim Arnold
31 May at 08:33
Sorry I got to say this... Here goes. Regarding the tourist Industry, They come to us cap in hand now wanting our support. They want us to travel and visit NZ tourist sites. what a pity they've spent the last 20 years selling overpriced attractions to foreigners Hobbiton $89, Te Puia Springs $76, Rainbow Springs $80, Waitomo Caves $64, signs and souveniers priced and signed in foreign currency/language. Domestic air fares dearer than flying to Australia, train fares dearer than just about anywhere in the world, motels at twice the price for comparable ones in the UK. And as for the fallacy that NZ owns its tourism industry, a quick walk through the Duty Free section at Auckland Airport should set you straight on this. Nope it's too expensive, you have ignored the local tourist for years now, sorry unless you give me a deal eg permanent big discount to NZ residents you won't be seeing me.
Regarding the call from local suppliers to buy local. I bought a can of tomatoes yesterday, from Pak N Save 69cents imported from Italy !!!! Kiwi ones, $2.10.Treat us fairly producers and maybe you will get our support. NZ mutton is cheaper in the UK than here, NZ timber cheaper in Aus than here, NZ wine cheaper in the UK. $4.00 for an avocado grown in Katikati, $4.00 for a cauli grown in Pukekohe is ridiculous. For so long we have been gouged here in NZ by our own suppliers that we have grown to accept it. Now that the all important "export market" has dried up, guess what, all of a sudden we are indispensable and called on for help.

[Trade_nancy]

I deal with Placemakers for building supplies for home use...not trade. Went in to store during Level 3 ...where I'm known...me and asked for a loan trailer to pick up 4 sheets of construction ply. Guy on counter said - dunno if we are loaning them out during Level 3. He asked the guy next to him -- who told him to call the head shamoo upstairs. Mr Shamoo didn't answer his phone. No was the default answer. I went home and next day sent an email to their sales inquiry email address telling them the story and asking for an answer. That was 2+ weeks ago. No response. I went to Bunnings and they gave me a loan trailer and I got the sheets of ply there.
This is quite typical of the sort of service response we see in NZ from larger firms.

[R650R]

Spent day in Wellington yesterday. Roaming the city for a coffee... half businesses are still full blown communist lockdown contact tracing stand and wait at line bullshit. The rest have token acknowledgement incase the stasi check on them but not enforcing. Guess which businesses were flourishing with customers and who got my money...
We need to stand up for our way of life or this gradual loss of our rights and freedoms won’t end.

I’ve just surged social media too late to discover this blackout Tuesday bullshit too. That’s where virtue signalling communists pretending they care post pics of black screens. I’ve just unfollowed about a third of my Instagram feed, pity as some were good artists, but just like lockdown enablers we all need to have a good sweep out to show the majority wants original normal

[swarfie]

We've got a still and make our own booze. Stocks of essence and yeast were getting low...well you know, the stuff evaporates :shifty: We ordered supplies online on the 27th of April but as the suppliers in Auckland were out of stock (someone must have been drinking more than usual:msn-wink:) it took a week for them to email (actually it was the 5th May) that the order had been dispatched. We waited. And we waited. More waiting...….yet more waiting...…..:wait: Last Thursday a parcel arrived. FFS the bloody couriers...name and shame...Courier Post, must have delivered it via outer Mongolia!! Just as well we had a few bottles in the cupboard.:wari:

[Dadpole]

Spent day in Wellington yesterday. Roaming the city for a coffee... half businesses are still full blown communist lockdown contact tracing stand and wait at line bullshit. The rest have token acknowledgement incase the stasi check on them but not enforcing. Guess which businesses were flourishing with customers and who got my money...
We need to stand up for our way of life or this gradual loss of our rights and freedoms won’t end.

I’ve just surged social media too late to discover this blackout Tuesday bullshit too. That’s where virtue signalling communists pretending they care post pics of black screens. I’ve just unfollowed about a third of my Instagram feed, pity as some were good artists, but just like lockdown enablers we all need to have a good sweep out to show the majority wants original normal

I guess you better get a gun and stand on the steps of Parliament shouting "Freedom". <_<

[Bonez]

The drug dealers across the road are doing a roaring trade. Of course po po is monitoring and taking notes of whose going in and out:yes: Wanna catch the whales instead of the small fry....:whistle:

[jellywrestler]

The drug dealers across the road are doing a roaring trade. Of course po po is monitoring and taking notes of whose going in and out:yes: Wanna catch the whales instead of the small fry....:whistle:

the ones down here are now delivering by drone.....

[rustys]

This is exactly what my Thread is about, and the frustrations iam hearing from your posts. I Know some business's have acumulated a back log over this Covid shit, but for fucks sake either employ some extra help or pump out a few more hours to service the customer.

I am still trying to get my Timber Order sorted, after 3 weeks... emails and phone calls, they will not awnser the phone as they say they are to busy, and the best way to get hold of us is by email, well they don't even awnser emails for fucks sake, this is the frustration of it all not from just one company but others as well, i'am going nuts. How hard is it to reply to an email? Tomorrow they will be told to shove there timber up there arse.:brick:

I was in business in the 90's i had a surge in productivity, i could'nt sleep at night, my customers were very important to me, i would wake up in the middle of the night, as i could'nt get back to sleep and go to work 3.00am till 7.00pm , thought this is no good so after a while i employed more staff, solution solved, happy customers, better business.

Sorry Guys i dont usually go off my tree ...:facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

This is exactly what my Thread is about, and the frustrations iam hearing from your posts. I Know some business's have acumulated a back log over this Covid shit, but for fucks sake either employ some extra help or pump out a few more hours to service the customer.

I am still trying to get my Timber Order sorted, after 3 weeks... emails and phone calls, they will not awnser the phone as they say they are to busy, and the best way to get hold of us is by email, well they don't even awnser emails for fucks sake, this is the frustration of it all not from just one company but others as well, i'am going nuts. How hard is it to reply to an email? Tomorrow they will be told to shove there timber up there arse.:brick:

I was in business in the 90's i had a surge in productivity, i could'nt sleep at night, my customers were very important to me, i would wake up in the middle of the night, as i could'nt get back to sleep and go to work 3.00am till 7.00pm , thought this is no good so after a while i employed more staff, solution solved, happy customers, better business.

Sorry Guys i dont usually go off my tree ...:facepalm:

I know of some businesses that would like to hire more help or offer OT but they are worried that they won't get the revenue coming in to cover the costs.

Don't know how big the Organisation that is doing your Timber is, but if it's a corporate (like ITM or similar) - I may or may not suggest going LinkedIn stalking to find someone who works at the company with a suitably impressive sounding job title and then inferring their email address from it and sending an email to that person to 'enquire' as to your missing wood.

[nzspokes]

This is exactly what my Thread is about, and the frustrations iam hearing from your posts. I Know some business's have acumulated a back log over this Covid shit, but for fucks sake either employ some extra help or pump out a few more hours to service the customer.

I am still trying to get my Timber Order sorted, after 3 weeks... emails and phone calls, they will not awnser the phone as they say they are to busy, and the best way to get hold of us is by email, well they don't even awnser emails for fucks sake, this is the frustration of it all not from just one company but others as well, i'am going nuts. How hard is it to reply to an email? Tomorrow they will be told to shove there timber up there arse.:brick:

I was in business in the 90's i had a surge in productivity, i could'nt sleep at night, my customers were very important to me, i would wake up in the middle of the night, as i could'nt get back to sleep and go to work 3.00am till 7.00pm , thought this is no good so after a while i employed more staff, solution solved, happy customers, better business.

Sorry Guys i dont usually go off my tree ...:facepalm:

OK, so try to find new staff and train them during a pandemic. Errrr not that easy.

Get staff to pull 60 hour weeks. Errrr not that easy.

Find stock to cover unprecedented demand. Errrr not that easy.

[pritch]

OK, so try to find new staff and train them during a pandemic. Errrr not that easy.

Get staff to pull 60 hour weeks. Errrr not that easy.

Find stock to cover unprecedented demand. Errrr not that easy.

Some companies have tried innovative ways of dealing with the new problems and have had success. Others doing the same ol' same ol' got the same ol' shite results.

[FJRider]

... but just like lockdown enablers we all need to have a good sweep out to show the majority wants original normal

There is an election coming up this year ... be sure to vote (carefully). The "Majority" wanted the National party to govern last time ... but they didn't (couldn't) get enough seats from the "Other" parties to boost their seat numbers.

Let's wait and see how your "Majority" goes in the election. Are they the "Majority" or just the vocal minority ... ??

Be sure to vote. Unless the percentage of the actual voting public is high enough ... the "Majority" of New Zealanders may not actually get what they want.

No doubt the TAB will be taking bets on the outcome of the next election. Who will you have your money on ???

[sidecar bob]

Some companies have tried innovative ways of dealing with the new problems and have had success. Others doing the same ol' same ol' got the same ol' shite results.

I've noticed that it's been a fantastic opportunity for those who have a can't do attitude to use covid to achieve their default setting without resistance.

[BMWST?]

i work in a prenail factory.We are as busy as hell.We just cannot get reliable workers who actually want to learn something and use some common sense.We have three 8 hour shifts going,but the quality of the work and constant absenteeism see production levels not much better than before.

[Laava]

There is an election coming up this year ... be sure to vote (carefully). The "Majority" wanted the National party to govern last time ... but they didn't (couldn't) get enough seats from the "Other" parties to boost their seat numbers.

Let's wait and see how your "Majority" goes in the election. Are they the "Majority" or just the vocal minority ... ??

Be sure to vote. Unless the percentage of the actual voting public is high enough ... the "Majority" of New Zealanders may not actually get what they want.

No doubt the TAB will be taking bets on the outcome of the next election. Who will you have your money on ???
You need to be a bit more careful with getting your facts right. If Nat had had a majority, they would have stayed in power. They had more votes than Labour but were unable to cooperate with another party so they got relegated. This is a great result for our current voting system and so this time round, guess what? Muller is talking to Uncle Winnie! It might not even be enough and if Uncle Winnie is not careful, he will lose favour with Labour as well. It is worth bearing in mind that the Nats could have been in power last time by forming a coalition with the Greens and ACT but chose not to. I prefer that the governing party cooperate with another party to some degree, keeping them a bit more honest.

[sidecar bob]

You need to be a bit more careful with getting your facts right. If Nat had had a majority, they would have stayed in power. They had more votes than Labour but were unable to cooperate with another party so they got relegated. This is a great result for our current voting system and so this time round, guess what? Muller is talking to Uncle Winnie! It might not even be enough and if Uncle Winnie is not careful, he will lose favour with Labour as well. It is worth bearing in mind that the Nats could have been in power last time by forming a coalition with the Greens and ACT but chose not to. I prefer that the governing party cooperate with another party to some degree, keeping them a bit more honest.
Speaking of fact check time, National didn't choose not to, Winnie chose not to. Everyone got a fair hearing & National certainly didn't say they wernt prepared to play.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/97799911/winston-peters-last-day-of-coalition-meetings-begins

[F5 Dave]

Spent day in Wellington yesterday. Roaming the city for a coffee... half businesses are still full blown communist lockdown contact tracing stand and wait at line bullshit. The rest have token acknowledgement incase the stasi check on them but not enforcing. Guess which businesses were flourishing with customers and who got my money...
We need to stand up for our way of life or this gradual loss of our rights and freedoms won’t end.

I’ve just surged social media too late to discover this blackout Tuesday bullshit too. That’s where virtue signalling communists pretending they care post pics of black screens. I’ve just unfollowed about a third of my Instagram feed, pity as some were good artists, but just like lockdown enablers we all need to have a good sweep out to show the majority wants original normal

If Key, or presumably English had been in he would still be chasing tourist dollars and the borders open till - Oh shit we really have got a problem and we're little Italy. And we'd be in full lockdown but with much worse consequences and economic poo. Its not a state driven by political ideology.
And I am a capitalist more than otherwise.

[Naki Rat]

Spent day in Wellington yesterday. Roaming the city for a coffee... half businesses are still full blown communist lockdown contact tracing stand and wait at line bullshit. The rest have token acknowledgement incase the stasi check on them but not enforcing. Guess which businesses were flourishing with customers and who got my money...
We need to stand up for our way of life or this gradual loss of our rights and freedoms won’t end.
Sweden took a softly-softly approach in regards to managing COVID and it blew up in their face it seems. Double NZ's population and the death toll there is over 4,500, now a commission (https://www.ft.com/content/dae6d006-9adc-46d5-9b4e-79a7841022e8) ( of enquiry) to see whose heads will roll over the whole mess.

All in all NZ made a mightly fine job of knocking this one over, so far. If the movie crews start recording a few new cases there's going to be a few people who will be mightily pissed off about it.

[Navy Boy]

Jim Arnold
31 May at 08:33
Sorry I got to say this... Here goes. Regarding the tourist Industry, They come to us cap in hand now wanting our support. They want us to travel and visit NZ tourist sites. what a pity they've spent the last 20 years selling overpriced attractions to foreigners Hobbiton $89, Te Puia Springs $76, Rainbow Springs $80, Waitomo Caves $64, signs and souveniers priced and signed in foreign currency/language. Domestic air fares dearer than flying to Australia, train fares dearer than just about anywhere in the world, motels at twice the price for comparable ones in the UK. And as for the fallacy that NZ owns its tourism industry, a quick walk through the Duty Free section at Auckland Airport should set you straight on this. Nope it's too expensive, you have ignored the local tourist for years now, sorry unless you give me a deal eg permanent big discount to NZ residents you won't be seeing me.
Regarding the call from local suppliers to buy local. I bought a can of tomatoes yesterday, from Pak N Save 69cents imported from Italy !!!! Kiwi ones, $2.10.Treat us fairly producers and maybe you will get our support. NZ mutton is cheaper in the UK than here, NZ timber cheaper in Aus than here, NZ wine cheaper in the UK. $4.00 for an avocado grown in Katikati, $4.00 for a cauli grown in Pukekohe is ridiculous. For so long we have been gouged here in NZ by our own suppliers that we have grown to accept it. Now that the all important "export market" has dried up, guess what, all of a sudden we are indispensable and called on for help.[/QUOTE]

Sadly quite a lot of this above rings true. A couple of years ago myself and a couple of biker buddies went to the Burt and went via Queenstown as one of our stopover spots en-route. Never again for all the sorts of reasons described above with hugely expensive restaurants, overpriced accommodation and a general feel that it was carefully designed to separate you from your money as effectively as possible.

Having said that the smaller spots we went to were ruddy great. In fact the whole trip was a salutary lesson in how to see NZ on a bike - Small and simple is by far best. I've tried to support a couple of local businesses in Blenheim more since the lockdown despite this costing me a bit more (Buying Scottoiler FS365 spray as well as a new Adventure-style helmet from the local bike adventure tour/rental place being just two examples) as it seems to be the right thing to do but my sympathy for elements of the tourist industry is somewhat sketchy... :(

[pritch]

Sweden took a softly-softly approach in regards to managing COVID and it blew up in their face it seems.

There was a news item this morning that the architect of Sweden's response to the virus admits he got it wrong and people died needlessly.

Of course now that I want the item to link to it, it has vanished. If I see it againI'll add the link.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell

[husaberg]

There was a news item this morning that the architect of Sweden's response to the virus admits he got it wrong and people died needlessly.

Of course now that I want the item to link to it, it has vanished. If I see it againI'll add the link.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnell

i wonder if the guy on KB who was so insistent they had got it right has the stones to fess up....

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131162515&highlight=sweden#post1131162515

either will the leader who claimed
“So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”
before that it was a hoax....

https://youtu.be/ELOZ6fU20Sk?t=223
imagine the egg on that face..........
3.30....

[Swoop]

As an online retailer (one man band from home) we've seen extremely high sales since level 4 ended as are many of our trade customers it would seem going by the orders they are placing.
A stupid move was to shut down online sales during "lockdown" as that part of the economy could have continued with courier deliveries, very safely (as we have witnessed). What idiotic moron, with no clue how to run an economy, would have done that? Oh, hang on... That would be Tony Blair's office girl.

[F5 Dave]

But to do that you need people in warehouses, quantum more delivery truckers spanning the country, more customs , not to mention the couriers and back office. Wher do you stop with lockdown?
So people can therapy shop.

[onearmedbandit]

So people can therapy shop.

Yup that's all it was about...

[Naki Rat]

A stupid move was to shut down online sales during "lockdown" as that part of the economy could have continued with courier deliveries, very safely (as we have witnessed). What idiotic moron, with no clue how to run an economy, would have done that? Oh, hang on... That would be Tony Blair's office girl.We were trading during level 4 until MBIE advised us we weren't allowed on their 'secret squirrel' essential services list, despite the fact we were selling fabric to companies making masks and babywear who claimed they had essential status. (We had no way of verifying that as the MBIE essential businesses list isn't available to anyone but them :facepalm:)

The whole MBIE process was totally disorganised and we had this confirmed by them along with a suggestion that they would revisit the set-up if we are to go into lockdown again. Sure they were taking the ultra-cautious approach but a little common sense would have been helpful.

[FJRider]

You need to be a bit more careful with getting your facts right. If Nat had had a majority, they would have stayed in power. They had more votes than Labour but were unable to cooperate with another party so they got relegated. This is a great result for our current voting system and so this time round, guess what? Muller is talking to Uncle Winnie! It might not even be enough and if Uncle Winnie is not careful, he will lose favour with Labour as well. It is worth bearing in mind that the Nats could have been in power last time by forming a coalition with the Greens and ACT but chose not to. I prefer that the governing party cooperate with another party to some degree, keeping them a bit more honest.

Perhaps YOU need to read more carefully ... If you read my post ... I did say "The majority wanted The National Party to govern" .... NOT National had the majority to govern.

Read what you quoted ...

If it means being the Governing Party ... Labour may take Winnie on board. But I'll bet he won't be Deputy PM. Possibly a few more places down the ranking.

But if the final vote count gives Labour the advantage ... the hope will be the advantage is enough to cut him loose without the threat of him going with National. And maybe without the Green party too ...

Has Covid-19 been that good to them ... ??

[Naki Rat]

There was a news item this morning that the architect of Sweden's response to the virus admits he got it wrong and people died needlessly.

Of course now that I want the item to link to it, it has vanished. If I see it againI'll add the link.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/03/architect-of-sweden-coronavirus-strategy-admits-too-many-died-anders-tegnellSaw the Herald article earlier but opted for the FT one I linked to. (Note to forum master: hyperlinks in text are near invisible, unless they are bold/underlined like I have now edited to in my earlier post.)

[Laava]

Perhaps YOU need to read more carefully ... If you read my post ... I did say "The majority wanted The National Party to govern" .... NOT National had the majority to govern.

Read what you quoted ...

If it means being the Governing Party ... Labour may take Winnie on board. But I'll bet he won't be Deputy PM. Possibly a few more places down the ranking.

But if the final vote count gives Labour the advantage ... the hope will be the advantage is enough to cut him loose without the threat of him going with National. And maybe without the Green party too ...

Has Covid-19 been that good to them ... ??
What majority? You mean the majority of voters split between Labour and National?It is more true to say the majority didn't want National to govern. Hence the whole Winston shemozzle. I don't have a horse in either race but it sure was a great lesson for the voters in how MMP works.
And my other point was that National refused to do any kind of deal with the Greens, and possibly ACT and so we had Uncle Winnie wandering about with his deputy sherrifs badge on regardless.

[BMWST?]

A stupid move was to shut down online sales during "lockdown" as that part of the economy could have continued with courier deliveries, very safely (as we have witnessed). What idiotic moron, with no clue how to run an economy, would have done that? Oh, hang on... That would be Tony Blair's office girl.

the Couriers were very busy anyway.The rationale was that essential businesses /items only.

[BMWST?]

We were trading during level 4 until MBIE advised us we weren't allowed on their 'secret squirrel' essential services list, despite the fact we were selling fabric to companies making masks and babywear who claimed they had essential status. (We had no way of verifying that as the MBIE essential businesses list isn't available to anyone but them :facepalm:)

The whole MBIE process was totally disorganised and we had this confirmed by them along with a suggestion that they would revisit the set-up if we are to go into lockdown again. Sure they were taking the ultra-cautious approach but a little common sense would have been helpful.
Remember the whole scenario developed quite quickly.I think it is very easy with 20/20 hindsight to say this was wrong ,and that was wrong.I think the simplicity of the initials lockdowns made it easy to manage for ebryone.Its not so simple anymore and i think many people are confused about some of the rules/numbers.

[BMWST?]

i wonder if the guy on KB who was so insistent they had got it right has the stones to fess up....

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php/178017-The-American-(USA)-2016-presidential-elections-thread?p=1131162515&highlight=sweden#post1131162515

either will the leader who claimed
“So last year 37,000 Americans died from the common Flu. It averages between 27,000 and 70,000 per year. Nothing is shut down, life & the economy go on. At this moment there are 546 confirmed cases of CoronaVirus, with 22 deaths. Think about that!”
before that it was a hoax....

https://youtu.be/ELOZ6fU20Sk?t=223
imagine the egg on that face..........
3.30....
its still quite confusing as some of the poms are saying we should have stuck to our original/swedens plan,the numbers are not that different.I think thats our plan has shown the best balance.Once the numbers get up its much harder to get them back under control.Easier to go hard early then go from there

[Bonez]

its still quite confusing as some of the poms are saying we should have stuck to our original/swedens plan,the numbers are not that different.I think thats our plan has shown the best balance.Once the numbers get up its much harder to get them back under control.Easier to go hard early then go from thereYeah the gummermint did did well despite the moaners. I was expecting Level 4 to go on for a bit longer.

[FJRider]

What majority?

Well ... actually the majority of those that actually voted. National had more votes ... but not enough to have the required number of seats in the house.

MMP was the only way any of the smaller parties were ever going to have any effect with any governing party.

[F5 Dave]

Yeah the gummermint did did well despite the moaners. I was expecting Level 4 to go on for a bit longer.
4 points for correct spelling of "gummermint"

[R650R]

If Key, or presumably English had been in he would still be chasing tourist dollars and the borders open till - Oh shit we really have got a problem and we're little Italy. And we'd be in full lockdown but with much worse consequences and economic poo. Its not a state driven by political ideology.
And I am a capitalist more than otherwise.

Quite happy for the borders closed part, its the domestic parts of lockdown that I have issues with so many contradictions and double standards.

[sidecar bob]

Quite happy for the borders closed part, its the domestic parts of lockdown that I have issues with so many contradictions and double standards.

Yep go to the local Indian restaurant for dinner, all systems normal, go to KFC the next day wasn't even allowed inside.
Like I said, it sure weeds out those with a can't do attitude.

[GazzaH]

Sushi lunch, no problem. Donner kebab likewise. Library?

Nope.

Assertive security guard at the door, plus several people loitering in the lobby, and a pubescent library person ineptly fiddling with an iPad, insisting on personal details but unable to explain why.

But then I'm only a ratepayer/taxpayer, not a valued customer.

And grumpy as hell. :mad:

[F5 Dave]

Quite happy for the borders closed part, its the domestic parts of lockdown that I have issues with so many contradictions and double standards.

Well you write some rules and stand by for constructive criticism on how ineffective or draconian they are.

[Swoop]

Remember the whole scenario developed quite quickly...
That is the bullshit pumped out and swallowed whole by the gullible.

This was well known and monitored for over three months, yet when it came to the crunch the morons in power hesitated, then simply fumbled their way in the dark and under blind panic, to take action. Even then they still failed to close the borders as they said they had done.

About a month and a half before we were sent to a country-wide naughty step, I was talking to a Hong Kong kiwi, who said they HK had already demanded their borders closed AND stip-mined every supermarket and shop for rice.

But our country was "caught by surprise"... yeah, right!

[Swoop]

Yup that's all it was about...
Otherwise called "keeping part of the economy going".

It's as if the gubbinment wanted the economy to tank.
Or, they were just incompetent enough to allow it to do so.

Either way, the younger generation that complained about struggling to get onto the property ladder, will now be completely unable to do so because of the massive debt placed around their neck by liarbour.
Just wait to see what new taxes are going to be introduced...

[Laava]

Well ... actually the majority of those that actually voted. National had more votes ... but not enough to have the required number of seats in the house.

MMP was the only way any of the smaller parties were ever going to have any effect with any governing party.
Here is a link to the voting outcome from last election. When you have said majority, I think you meant that more people voted for national than labour. In fact 44.4% of voters voted for national. So that is what I meant by not a majority. But you can see that for yourself in the link.

https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/

[Naki Rat]

Here is a link to the voting outcome from last election. When you have said majority, I think you meant that more people voted for national than labour. In fact 44.4% of voters voted for national. So that is what I meant by not a majority. But you can see that for yourself in the link.

https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/There's nothing unusual about that NZ governments have consisted of a coalition of minority parties every term since MMP began. Prior to that the criticism was that FFP resulted in governments that weren't representative of the majority of voters. Now that coalition governments have become the norm the supporters of the highest polling non-governing party are parroting the 'COL' moniker. You can please some of the people....

[BMWST?]

Well ... actually the majority of those that actually voted. National had more votes ... but not enough to have the required number of seats in the house.

MMP was the only way any of the smaller parties were ever going to have any effect with any governing party.

that is the idea of it....PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION.National had the biggest share of any one party.You are inferring that they were first past the post..that is an archaic systemwhere whole segment(s) of the vote is ignored.

[BMWST?]

That is the bullshit pumped out and swallowed whole by the gullible.

This was well known and monitored for over three months, yet when it came to the crunch the morons in power hesitated, then simply fumbled their way in the dark and under blind panic, to take action. Even then they still failed to close the borders as they said they had done.

About a month and a half before we were sent to a country-wide naughty step, I was talking to a Hong Kong kiwi, who said they HK had already demanded their borders closed AND stip-mined every supermarket and shop for rice.

But our country was "caught by surprise"... yeah, right!
In a way yes,but asia has had this kind of thing before...us westerners still look at the spanish flu as our experience.I think the IDEAS are known but how to implement them is different.I am still of the opinion that it has worked well.(i will accept your argument that it may be more luck than management)

[BMWST?]

Otherwise called "keeping part of the economy going".

It's as if the gubbinment wanted the economy to tank.
Or, they were just incompetent enough to allow it to do so.

Either way, the younger generation that complained about struggling to get onto the property ladder, will now be completely unable to do so because of the massive debt placed around their neck by liarbour.
Just wait to see what new taxes are going to be introduced...
what is the motivation for governments world wide to destroy their own economies?

[Swoop]

what is the motivation for governments world wide to destroy their own economies?
Normally either corruption or ineptitude. Socialism succeeds on both counts...

[spanner spinner]

what is the motivation for governments world wide to destroy their own economies?


it's a election year & most of the voting public won't see the fallout of the destroyed economy until after the election and the incompetent are returned to power, this applies to many governments worldwide as there a few important elections due this year.
But if they did nothing and great aunt Mavis dropped dead of COVID-19 that is a direct result of there incompetence and voters will then vote for the opposition as a form of protest vote as emotions impact voters decisions, the destroyers of the economy don't get back into power & can't hide their incompetence.

The scary issue for most of the tax paying middle classes is that the economic issues will be payed for in the future & yes we will be pay for this and most likely your kids will still be paying for it when they start working.

[pete376403]

it's a election year & most of the voting public won't see the fallout of the destroyed economy until after the election and the incompetent are returned to power, this applies to many governments worldwide as there a few important elections due this year.
But if they did nothing and great aunt Mavis dropped dead of COVID-19 that is a direct result of there incompetence and voters will then vote for the opposition as a form of protest vote as emotions impact voters decisions, the destroyers of the economy don't get back into power & can't hide their incompetence.

The scary issue for most of the tax paying middle classes is that the economic issues will be payed for in the future & yes we will be pay for this and most likely your kids will still be paying for it when they start working.

We has a near total shutdown, with only 22 lives lost, is that how you would describe government incompetence? USA, Britain, Brazil went to the opposite extreme, about 185,000 deaths there. What would you prefer? You seem to be saying no matter which way governments go they are incompetent. As for taxes, every generation is paying for things that happened in the past and for things that will happen on the future, its the price we pay for a (largely) civilised society.

[spanner spinner]

We has a near total shutdown, with only 22 lives lost, is that how you would describe government incompetence? USA, Britain, Brazil went to the opposite extreme, about 185,000 deaths there. What would you prefer? You seem to be saying no matter which way governments go they are incompetent. As for taxes, every generation is paying for things that happened in the past and for things that will happen on the future, its the price we pay for a (largely) civilised society.


the question was why would governments (all governments not just ours) destroy their economy & as per my reply to save lives maybe I didn't state this clearly enough, the up side for the people in power is that they get voted back in.
Our government did the saving lives bit OK at the expense of the economy. As you have stated lots of other governments around the world did a crap job on both counts crashed they economy and killed off their voter base, and look at the backlash they are experiencing due to the emotional cost of the deaths which is completely understandable.

In my opinion the economic fall out from the virus hasn't really got rolling yet, and the cost of printing money worldwide to paper over the cracks will impact the average wage earner with a much lower standard of living for a very long time.

If we where really onto it we would have shut ours boarders in January & quarantined returning New Zealand's in isolation camps for 28 days then we would have had no deaths and no shutdown and the only impact would have been to the tourist industry. This would have cost a lot less than shutting the whole country for 5 weeks even if you payed the tourist company's for their losses.

[FJRider]

... You are inferring that they were first past the post..that is an archaic systemwhere whole segment(s) of the vote is ignored.

That was not my intention to suggest or imply that. I said they had the majority of seats (for their Party). More than Labour had.

An unelected member of a small party ... with no electorate to represent ... talked himself into the position of Deputy PM.

And the funny part was ... many were surprised it could happen ... aside from the fact it actually did happen.

And I'm betting many would have wished for "Whole segment(s) of the vote" were ignored ... :shifty:


Question ...was the end result of that election ... the intended result of the voting public (that actually voted) ..??

[husaberg]

that is the idea of it....PROPORTIONAL REPRESENTATION.National had the biggest share of any one party.You are inferring that they were first past the post..that is an archaic systemwhere whole segment(s) of the vote is ignored.


By the 1981 elections, the party's support had subsided somewhat, and Social Credit only gained 20.55% of the vote. As expected, the electoral system did not translate this into seats in parliament, but Social Credit did retain the two seats it already held. funny enough beethem beat DON BRASH for the seat.......

but what i find funny is the same right wing had no issues with peters in 96 when he went with Boulger.
or the minority parties mps propping up Key in subsequent elections..

Or ignoring referendums on asset sales.


New Zealand asset sales referendum, 2013
"Do you support the Government selling up to 49 per cent of Meridian Energy, Mighty River Power, Genesis Power, Solid Energy and Air New Zealand?"
Results
Votes %
Yes 442,985 32.40%
No 920,188 67.30%


John Key has said that his Govt will give little attention to the result of the referendum, describing it as political stunt by Labour and the Greens
Despite the overwhelming majority against this he turned around and sold or destroyed most of these. breaking his own promises prior to the election not to sell them.

None of them also had a problem when winston peters was made deputy PM ans treasurer under bolger

or when the nats had a lower % of the votes in either the 1978 or 1981 election.

Funny enough the same people spoiut right wing clap trap the worlds over as to why they have to have a assault rifle as they need it in case the gov represses them....
yet when the right wing gov calls in the military to repress its own citizens, they have zip to say about it.

[Naki Rat]

That was not my intention to suggest or imply that. I said they had the majority of seats (for their Party). More than Labour had.

An unelected member of a small party ... with no electorate to represent ... talked himself into the position of Deputy PM.

And the funny part was ... many were surprised it could happen ... aside from the fact it actually did happen.

And I'm betting many would have wished for "Whole segment(s) of the vote" were ignored ... :shifty:


Question ...was the end result of that election ... the intended result of the voting public (that actually voted) ..??That whole scenario (apart from the anomaly that is Winston) is pretty much the criticism that used to be levelled at FPP.

[FJRider]

That whole scenario (apart from the anomaly that is Winston) is pretty much the criticism that used to be levelled at FPP.

As I recall ... you had to win an Electorate, to get a seat in Parliament. The introduction of Preferred party votes was the game changer. Hence Winston, and thusly, his seat in Government.

Now the smaller parties barter their support, for support of their own bill's in exchange. In effect ... neither party gets full measure for their intended policy getting introduced into law.

[Naki Rat]

As I recall ... you had to win an Electorate, to get a seat in Parliament. The introduction of Preferred party votes was the game changer. Hence Winston, and thusly, his seat in Government.

Now the smaller parties barter their support, for support of their own bill's in exchange. In effect ... neither party gets full measure for their intended policy getting introduced into law.You're right in that FPP had no 'party vote' component. The party that got the most electorate wins got to govern but when that included a disproportionate number of marginal seat wins it was possible that the 'winning' party actually got less than a majority of voters backing them. So, the government could actually represent a minority of voters. The same situation still exists under the US electoral system FWIK with a number of crucial swing states giving the likes of Bush or Trump a minority vote 'win'.

Whichever way the electoral system is designed you can guarantee the pollies will find a way to game that system - Winston, Trump, Boris, ...

[FJRider]

... Whichever way the electoral system is designed you can guarantee the pollies will find a way to game that system - Winston, Trump, Boris, ...

The current system favors the smaller parties ... if only to hinder the major parties.

So the major party's bills get introduced and the result is a compromise. Can that be good ... or do they try to start by asking/intending for more than they will be happy with ... KNOWING they wont get it all ... ???

[nerrrd]

The current system favors the smaller parties ... if only to hinder the major parties.

Labour and National are the two parties closest to the centre, they appear to maintain each others policies by and large from election to election (since '84 anyway) except for some tinkering around the edges, so I don't blame the system for the minor parties having more influence than they might deserve under MMP, I blame Labour and National for refusing to cooperate with each other by way of a grand coalition.

I guess this isn't hard to understand, given the legacy of a century of FPP prior to that and party organisations which have a vested interest in keeping each other at arms length.

Even so there's nothing stopping either National or Labour from getting more than 50% and governing on their own, except the voters. I'm ok with that.

Of course all that was pre-covid, now all bets are off as to what's going to happen in September and beyond.

[Naki Rat]

The current system favors the smaller parties ... if only to hinder the major parties.

So the major party's bills get introduced and the result is a compromise. Can that be good ... or do they try to start by asking/intending for more than they will be happy with ... KNOWING they wont get it all ... ???Can't remember specific examples ATM but National had a habit of announcing radical policies initially before toning them down as a demonstration of taking a (comparatively) softer approach by contrast, which was probably their original intent. As I said "playing the system"...

[F5 Dave]

What we need is a dominant party with a right minded leader, a bit like myself but smarter. Oh Lord a lot smarter. :blink:
With a long term plan for the good of the country instead of petty random vote winning promises before each election cycle.

Whats good for the country is good for the party. So when I'm voted to power in sweeping election I will consider how to ensure everyone is working for the good of the party, and of course the country if you will.

There may need to be some re-education but that is a cleaning process for the good of the party, which I'm sure everyone will agree is the best for every right minded thinking citizen.

Vote for Akzle. . I mean. . Dammn.:facepalm:

[TheDemonLord]

What we need is a dominant party with a right minded leader, a bit like myself but smarter. Oh Lord a lot smarter. :blink:]

You called?

[caseye]

What we need is a dominant party with a right minded leader, a bit like myself but smarter. Oh Lord a lot smarter. :blink:
With a long term plan for the good of the country instead of petty random vote winning promises before each election cycle.

Whats good for the country is good for the party. So when I'm voted to power in sweeping election I will consider how to ensure everyone is working for the good of the party, and of course the country if you will.

There may need to be some re-education but that is a cleaning process for the good of the party, which I'm sure everyone will agree is the best for every right minded thinking citizen.

Vote for Akzle. . I mean. . Dammn.:facepalm:

WASH YER MOUTH OUT BOI!
Poor ol Akzle would have kittens if he got erected!:lol::lol:

[FJRider]

... I blame Labour and National for refusing to cooperate with each other by way of a grand coalition.

And then any bill introduced into Parliament would end up a "Grand Compromise" if it passed into Legislation ... :pinch:


Of course all that was pre-covid, now all bets are off as to what's going to happen in September and beyond.

My guess ... Landslide win for Labour ... with minority parties getting seats ... but Labour getting enough seats to Govern on it's own.

And Winston sitting down the back of the house ... (The last bit might not happen ... but I'd smile if it did)


Time will tell ...

[husaberg]

Labour and National are the two parties closest to the centre, they appear to maintain each others policies by and large from election to election (since '84 anyway) except for some tinkering around the edges, so .

Both parties want to raise the age or National super but both know its an election loser, so we all pay for something we can no longer afford.

[F5 Dave]

Super and retirement might go on to be experiments that lasted 3-4 generations before being scrapped. I blame Bismark . Guess he didn't expect the life expectancy of the general rabble to extend to such great lengths.

[BMWST?]

Both parties want to raise the age or National super but both know its an election loser, so we all pay for something we can no longer afford.
both parties l have been playing with this issue since 1972.It is a very well known fact that the boomers are retiring or coming up to retire soon.The fact that neither party had done anything meaningful is a disgrace(and i am a boomer).They could have announced their plans YEARS ago and everyone could have made appropriate plans,including the govt of the day to ensure a more efficent/affordable system had reserves to look after those who really need it.Now there is a double whammy to afford

[BMWST?]

That was not my intention to suggest or imply that. I said they had the majority of seats (for their Party). More than Labour had.

An unelected member of a small party ... with no electorate to represent ... talked himself into the position of Deputy PM.

And the funny part was ... many were surprised it could happen ... aside from the fact it actually did happen.

And I'm betting many would have wished for "Whole segment(s) of the vote" were ignored ... :shifty:


Question ...was the end result of that election ... the intended result of the voting public (that actually voted) ..??

I think that that is an outcome that is NOT unexpected by those who promoted MMP in the first place.The suprised ones would be those that dont want MMP and or a died in the blue national party supporter

[pete376403]

both parties l have been playing with this issue since 1972.It is a very well known fact that the boomers are retiring or coming up to retire soon.The fact that neither party had done anything meaningful is a disgrace(and i am a boomer).They could have announced their plans YEARS ago and everyone could have made appropriate plans,including the govt of the day to ensure a more efficent/affordable system had reserves to look after those who really need it.Now there is a double whammy to afford

I blame Muldoon. He promised a free super scheme to replace the Labour contributory one. Voters let greed override logic. If the Labour scheme had been retained, and if subsequent governments could keep their fingers out of it, there would be billions in the fund today.

[TheDemonLord]

Funny enough the same people spoiut right wing clap trap the worlds over as to why they have to have a assault rifle as they need it in case the gov represses them....
yet when the right wing gov calls in the military to repress its own citizens, they have zip to say about it.

No, they are too busy guarding their businesses and their homes and their families from the rioters to protest.

[R650R]

the question was why would governments (all governments not just ours) destroy their economy & as per my reply to save lives maybe I didn't state this clearly enough, the up side for the people in power is that they get voted back in.
Our government did the saving lives bit OK at the expense of the economy. As you have stated lots of other governments around the world did a crap job on both counts crashed they economy and killed off their voter base, and look at the backlash they are experiencing due to the emotional cost of the deaths which is completely understandable.

In my opinion the economic fall out from the virus hasn't really got rolling yet, and the cost of printing money worldwide to paper over the cracks will impact the average wage earner with a much lower standard of living for a very long time.

If we where really onto it we would have shut ours boarders in January & quarantined returning New Zealand's in isolation camps for 28 days then we would have had no deaths and no shutdown and the only impact would have been to the tourist industry. This would have cost a lot less than shutting the whole country for 5 weeks even if you payed the tourist company's for their losses.

Bang on. That’s been the goal all along to decimate the world economy so we’re all on Chinese or Mexico level slave wages. Except of course that “lowering” wages is unpalatable so it’s done by stealth via inflation or economic disaster so people will take any job to survive.
They were planning to do it via carbon taxes, slowly lower is in to total oppression, but they took too long and too many people were seeing the gross lies predicted 20 years ago fail to happen.
Then they got cocky and fronted an autistic 16 year old and switched off everyone.
So how convenient that Covid whether natural or engineered came along to fill the same goals.
And to top it off we have race riots destroying the surviving small businesses and soon to be the food supply chain as amazon and other large centres get hit.
The Bolsheviks would have been so jealous of us getting the people to destroy their own society.

[ellipsis]

...they creamed it through the lockdown while small kiwi businesses died and I bet most kiwi's will continue to assist them cream it by using the aussie supermarkets and sending our money offshore...nobody wants to spend more than they can but how much of that kind of thought will see the end of our struggling home producers...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121736633/foodstuffs-accused-of-hypocrisy-over-buy-nz-made-campaign

...another Jacinda and Co fuckup or just another jackup by the money brigade...?

[nerrrd]

I can never keep track of who 'they' are...

I'll also never understand why banks lending $10 for every $1 they have on deposit isn't basically 'printing money' as well, and that's been going on for decades.

[TheDemonLord]

I'll also never understand why banks lending $10 for every $1 they have on deposit isn't basically 'printing money' as well, and that's been going on for decades.

Money Velocity and the generation of Wealth.

[Jeeper]

I can never keep track of who 'they' are...

I'll also never understand why banks lending $10 for every $1 they have on deposit isn't basically 'printing money' as well, and that's been going on for decades.That is not how the banking systems work, but let's not get facts in the way of an emotional argument.

[TheDemonLord]

That is not how the banking systems work, but let's not get facts in the way of an emotional argument.

Well, it's missing a lender of last resort - but it's mostly how the Fractional Reserve system works (albeit quite simplified)

[Jeeper]

Well, it's missing a lender of last resort - but it's mostly how the Fractional Reserve system works (albeit quite simplified)It's missing the loans/lenders in general. And a few other facts. FRS was how reserve banks worked up to the 70s. Much has changed since.


The free money people often see is supporting the security system behind the mortgages and other lending. Take away the proportional side, and we would all need to buy assets with cash in hand including the house and bread we eat.

[Viking01]

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/06/feds-repo-loans-to-wall-street-skyrocket-by-230-percent-week-over-week/

[TheDemonLord]

It's missing the loans/lenders in general. And a few other facts. FRS was how reserve banks worked up to the 70s. Much has changed since.

The free money people often see is supporting the security system behind the mortgages and other lending. Take away the proportional side, and we would all need to buy assets with cash in hand including the house and bread we eat.

I did say it was rather simplified - I agree entirely that without a Fractional Reserve system, that access to credit and therefore investment, improvement, home ownership etc. would be much more severely curtailed than it is now.

[pritch]

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2020/06/feds-repo-loans-to-wall-street-skyrocket-by-230-percent-week-over-week/

Indeed. Thus the record stock market highs. In the current circumstances stocks in the US should be way down, but Trump has the formerly independent Federal Reserve pumping money into the stock market at a staggering rate.

One day the chickens will come home to roost. If a Democrat president is elected expect the Republicans to suddenly start screaming "fiscal responsibility" again. They've been strangely silent since Trump was elected despite his blowing trillions.

[nerrrd]

That is not how the banking systems work, but let's not get facts in the way of an emotional argument.

No doubt, there's probably leprechauns involved in there somewhere as well.

[FJRider]

I think that that is an outcome that is NOT unexpected by those who promoted MMP in the first place.The suprised ones would be those that dont want MMP and or a died in the blue national party supporter

But ... will it make the voters think more carefully as to how how they can use the voting system to their advantage ??

Will the major parties be advising there supporters on how best to vote for maximum party advantage ???

[husaberg]

or a died in the blue national party supporter

if only they would hury up and do so........
They could be buried them with a portrait of both their idols.
346103

[Viking01]

I can never keep track of who 'they' are...

I'll also never understand why banks lending $10 for every $1 they have on deposit isn't basically 'printing money' as well, and that's been going on for decades.

Might be some content present that helps answer your question:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

[BMWST?]

I blame Muldoon. He promised a free super scheme to replace the Labour contributory one. Voters let greed override logic. If the Labour scheme had been retained, and if subsequent governments could keep their fingers out of it, there would be billions in the fund today.
thats exactly the event that started it yes

[BMWST?]

but the "wealth" is mostley overinflated property prices ,whilst the bankers generally are the ones actually getting wealthier.The "wealth" for the actual property buyers is largely wasted buying even more over valued property and paying another mortgage off

[nerrrd]

Might be some content present that helps answer your question:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

I was going to read it, honest sir, but then the dog ate it...

Actually I did read the overview. Several times to try and make some sense of it. Seemed to be saying that banks do create money out of thin air, within limits, but no doubt I'm failing to understand many vitally important economic policies and principles in saying that.

Back to ill-informed generalities for me.

[sidecar bob]

but the "wealth" is mostley overinflated property prices ,whilst the bankers generally are the ones actually getting wealthier.The "wealth" for the actual property buyers is largely wasted buying even more over valued property and paying another mortgage off

I guess we could all just sit on our arses & hope to receive enough govt money to barely survive once we reach a certain age.
Or we could provide housing to the risk averse while we invest in overpriced property & have others pay the mortgage on it while pretending that we are wealthy.
I prefer to call it inflation proofing my earnings.
What do you do prefer to do, bank your earnings & find that it buys nothing in 20 years while paying off consumer goods that will also be worth nothing in 20 years while complaining that others have all the luck?

[F5 Dave]

I was going to read it, honest sir, but then the dog ate it...

Actually I did read the overview. Several times to try and make some sense of it. Seemed to be saying that banks do create money out of thin air, within limits, but no doubt I'm failing to understand many vitally important economic policies and principles in saying that.

Back to ill-informed generalities for me.

Oohh, sounds comfortable. Can I join you?:drinknsin

[husaberg]

but the "wealth" is mostley overinflated property prices ,whilst the bankers generally are the ones actually getting wealthier.The "wealth" for the actual property buyers is largely wasted buying even more over valued property and paying another mortgage off

The only reason they do so is to avoid tax.
given a CGT tax like nearly every country in the developed world has that model would change.........

[TheDemonLord]

given a CGT tax like nearly every country in the developed world has that model would change.........

Yeah! More Taxes!

Because that always helps stimulate an economy with an impending recession....

[eldog]

We arent sheep. Well some of us anyway.

[eldog]

I guess we could all just sit on our arses & hope to receive enough govt money to barely survive once we reach a certain age.
Or we could provide housing to the risk averse while we invest in overpriced property & have others pay the mortgage on it while pretending that we are wealthy.
I prefer to call it inflation proofing my earnings.
What do you do prefer to do, bank your earnings & find that it buys nothing in 20 years while paying off consumer goods that will also be worth nothing in 20 years while complaining that others have all the luck?

I think I am currently ticking all the boxes you have presented. Still feel like I am doing all the work and others just cruise through.

Sure I have some nice stuff, why not we are only here once.

Just don't feel confident that I am doing enough for future saving

[sidecar bob]

The only reason they do so is to avoid tax.
given a CGT tax like nearly every country in the developed world has that model would change.........

Thats a massive sweeping generalisation based far more on what you would like to believe, than actual fact.
The concept of investing in property to aviod tax has never featured in any of my thinking on that topic.
I do it to create passive income, while inflation proofing wages I have worked for in the past.
How do you invest your cash reserves? For christ sake don't say you put it in the bank.

[eldog]

How do you invest your cash reserves? For christ sake don't say you put it in the bank.

living on the edge, no cash reserves

put it in the bank to paying off mortgage as fast as I can.

[Viking01]

I was going to read it, honest sir, but then the dog ate it...

Actually I did read the overview. Several times to try and make some sense of it. Seemed to be saying that banks do create money out of thin air, within limits, but no doubt I'm failing to understand many vitally important economic policies and principles in saying that.

Back to ill-informed generalities for me.

Evening.
Thanks for the reply, and your dog is no doubt suffering from indigestion ... 8-) And I understand your current predicament.

How is Money Created?
A good question. I have to say that I've yet to come across a good book or articles that concisely explains the concept and the process - and presents it in reasonably simple language.

I'm not sure whether this is because (i) both the concept and the process are complicated (ii) the authors don't actually know the process mechanics, (iii) to present such information in an easily understood format might expose some uncomfortable truths .... 8-)

I'm still on my own personal voyage of discovery about aspects of both economics and banking. I attach links to a few resources that I've come across in more recent years.

I acknowledge some of the last sources listed have a left-ward lean. I include them only because they have provided me with some light on the ongoing left - right debate. I'm not trying to push one side or the other, nor am I going to get into any political debate online. I'll leave that to others.

Definitions and Explanations
There are a number of books available that might explain both the past Fractional Banking system and the more recent Modern Monetary Theory (MMT). The book link below might be of use. Suggest that you look through the online Table of Contents ("Look Inside") to see if it covers the specific elements that you're interested in.

https://www.amazon.com/Sovereign-Money-Beyond-Reserve-Banking/dp/3319421735#customerReviews

Explanation of Fractional Reserve System
Again, where do you find a nice concise and easy-to-read source? I attach the link below because it is not complex, and has one decent diagram.

https://courses.lumenlearning.com/boundless-economics/chapter/creating-money/

Creating Money in the Modern Economy
Two links: The first is the link to the BoE article that was posted earlier, while the second is a short (related) video clip that talks about the creation of money. The same video clip is present on the NZ Reserve Bank website.

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/-/media/boe/files/quarterly-bulletin/2014/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy.pdf

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/quarterly-bulletin/2014/q1/money-creation-in-the-modern-economy

Modern Monetary Theory (MMT)
Around 1970, some initial thoughts on MMT were slowly coming into being (e.g. Mosler). But it was probably at least 1995 before we saw the development and progressive deployment of Modern Monetary Theory (MMT).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory

A Political Perspective

https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/01/22/behind-the-money-curtain-a-left-take-on-taxes-spending-and-modern-monetary-theory/

Use and Abuse of MMT

https://michael-hudson.com/2020/04/the-use-and-abuse-of-mmt/

The following link has a good diagram illustrating basic flows.

https://www.elrincondelparquet.com/news/why-is-modern-monetary-theory-wrong/

US Federal Reserve video on Monetary Policy
The attached video clip in the first link below was made while in the middle of the QE2 round in the US. I include it only because the Feds position at that point in time suddenly turned around soon after [and this was well prior to Covid-19 making its appearance].

https://wallstreetonparade.com/2019/10/federal-reserve-spokesman-explains-how-it-creates-money-out-of-thin-air-to-pump-out-to-wall-street/

https://dissidentvoice.org/2019/02/qe-forever-the-feds-dramatic-about-face/

[husaberg]

If they introduce capital gains tax, they better plan on all the landlord property investors leaving the market, if only in protest.
They may find they have to come up with a few more houses than they budgeted for.


I guess we could all just sit on our arses & hope to receive enough govt money to barely survive once we reach a certain age.
Or we could provide housing to the risk averse while we invest in overpriced property & have others pay the mortgage on it while pretending that we are wealthy.
I prefer to call it inflation proofing my earnings.
What do you do prefer to do, bank your earnings & find that it buys nothing in 20 years while paying off consumer goods that will also be worth nothing in 20 years while complaining that others have all the luck?


Thats a massive sweeping generalisation based far more on what you would like to believe, than actual fact.
The concept of investing in property to aviod tax has never featured in any of my thinking on that topic.
I do it to create passive income, while inflation proofing wages I have worked for in the past.
How do you invest your cash reserves? For christ sake don't say you put it in the bank.

oh really.... i had a broom and i just cleaned up the rubbish.
So the rest of the developed world does not have a CGT? minus a few well known tax havens.
Or you don't invest in property as its not taxed capital gains. well bless you bob you must be doing it out of the bottom of your heart then.........
the fact its not getting taxed for that inflation proofing of your wages at all must have escaped your attention. i sincerely doubt that.
All my moneys in property, i have mentioned that before, as there is no tax on capital gains a long as you dont turn them over to quick or buy with the intent of flogging them off quick to make a quick buck the tax man leaves you alone.
I am on the look out for a nice coastal block for myself for a retirement block in 25 years time atm as that young stroppy looking gretta girl has made them rather affordable now;)
You must tell me more how those inflation proofed wages are not in actuality tax free capital gains.
Also of course if you didnt invest in those property's to avoid tax ...........why it is you are so against a CGT.

[BMWST?]

I guess we could all just sit on our arses & hope to receive enough govt money to barely survive once we reach a certain age.
Or we could provide housing to the risk averse while we invest in overpriced property & have others pay the mortgage on it while pretending that we are wealthy.
I prefer to call it inflation proofing my earnings.
What do you do prefer to do, bank your earnings & find that it buys nothing in 20 years while paying off consumer goods that will also be worth nothing in 20 years while complaining that others have all the luck?

not at all .We do have a small rental,which we now own.But a lot of real estate is bought and sold without really doing sums .House values i think are completely over the top,and those who regularly trade up must pay an absolute fortune in interest and real estate agent fees.A lot of wealth is transferred directly to the banks and real estate agents

[F5 Dave]

Who are these agents of estate you talk of?

[GazzaH]

They are agents of the sellers, allegedly. Definitely not the buyers anyway.

[sidecar bob]

oh really.... i had a broom and i just cleaned up the rubbish.
So the rest of the developed world does not have a CGT? minus a few well known tax havens.
Or you don't invest in property as its not taxed capital gains. well bless you bob you must be doing it out of the bottom of your heart then.........
the fact its not getting taxed for that inflation proofing of your wages at all must have escaped your attention. i sincerely doubt that.
All my moneys in property, i have mentioned that before, as there is no tax on capital gains a long as you dont turn them over to quick or buy with the intent of flogging them off quick to make a quick buck the tax man leaves you alone.
I am on the look out for a nice coastal block for myself for a retirement block in 25 years time atm as that young stroppy looking gretta girl has made them rather affordable now;)
You must tell me more how those inflation proofed wages are not in actuality tax free capital gains.
Also of course if you didnt invest in those property's to avoid tax ...........why it is you are so against a CGT.

Well fill ya fuckin boots.
You're clearly doing a heap better than me & are way smarter.
Good onya bro.
Im not as smart as you think, I'm just trying to get by with the least drama & stress while not working most days.
You really are the internet police aren't you, and a bit of a fuckwit that attacks from the self appointed high ground too.

[husaberg]

Well fill ya fuckin boots.
You're clearly doing a heap better than me & are way smarter.
Good onya bro.
Im not as smart as you think, I'm just trying to get by with the least drama & stress while not working most days.

I like it better when you answer questions i asked, rather than lavish the false praise and platitudes and acknowledgements that i have a bigger willy......
property down here is cheap when we lost those 1000's of jobs after pike and he collapse of solid energy the property price really tanked here.
You remember at the same time the Nats were bailing out massive multi nationals and giving them massive perks Rio tinto and proping up finance companies owned by billionaires they were letting our own SOE's and thousands of jobs here go down the gurgler

[sidecar bob]

I like it better when you answer questions i asked, rather than lavish the false praise and platitudes and acknowledgements that i have a bigger willy......

I wont be leaving the market with the introduction of CGT but plenty will, I'm stupid, but not so stupid that i don't realise that people are in the property market for different reasons to me.

[Katman]

….I'm stupid, but not so stupid that i don't realise that people are in the property market for different reasons to me.

You're all only in it to make money, aren't you?

[husaberg]

I wont be leaving the market with the introduction of CGT but plenty will, I'm stupid, but not so stupid that i don't realise that people are in the property market for different reasons to me.

I doubt there will ever be an introduction of a CGT same as raising of the pension eligibility, its a sure election loser and no one has the balls to make the hard decisions that even if done for the good of the country will lose a election.
both have the same chances a Muller wining the majority of the seats at the next election.

[JimO]

They are agents of the sellers, allegedly. Definitely not the buyers anyway.
not the sellers either

[F5 Dave]

You're all only in it to make money, aren't you?
Yeah. Down with the man.
Let's start a commune and grow sweet potatoes.

[F5 Dave]

They are agents of the sellers, allegedly. Definitely not the buyers anyway.
Ahh, no. They are usually just parasitic sponges that don't have the sellers interest in mind. Just their own.

If you can sell a motorcycle you can sell your home.

You do however need a lawyer. As I explained to some estate twat: no I don't know that much about the legal proceedings of house sales. But my lawyer is a lot smarter than you. He shut up after that, realising that he was in fact useless.

[jellywrestler]

Ahh, no. They are usually just parasitic sponges that don't have the sellers interest in mind. Just their own.

If you can sell a motorcycle you can sell your home.

You do however need a lawyer. As I explained to some estate twat: no I don't know that much about the legal proceedings of house sales. But my lawyer is a lot smarter than you. He shut up after that, realising that he was in fact useless.

while they are parasites they have buyers on their books so most people doing private sales aren't getting access to the same number of buyers simply so often shooting themselves in the foot. Bit like those who don't want to pay trademe commission for selling their bike, yet look at how many potential customers TM reaches.
We will see a few more real estate agents come out of the woodwork as people are laid off and lean on the industry for work

[F5 Dave]

Have you heard of the internet? It's where most people search for houses. I hear Trademe is popular so estate company affiliation is pointless.

And yes sadly there will be another influx of people trying to earn a crust. If you see me wearing a red coat. Don't ask.

PS just reading the May issues of CMM. June advertises coming mag with a tasty looking MV you might be interested in seeing.

[Katman]

Yeah. Down with the man.
Let's start a commune and grow sweet potatoes.

I'm just stating the obvious - before anyone tries suggesting it's done for a noble cause.

[sidecar bob]

You're all only in it to make money, aren't you?
Well duh, of course I am that's why I don't have to work.
It seems nobody grasps the concept of having more money than you know what to do with, which is understandable.
, I'm actually using it as an asset based platform to store my cash reserves in and get sufficient return
Putting it in the bank & hoping for the best is hardly very smart.
It's also so I can have a nice new, not for business purposes workshop, so I can tinker with & store my collection of cars & bikes at leisure, while occupying an appreciating asset.

[Katman]

Well duh, of course I am that's why I don't have to work.

Well that's exactly my point.

You're all in it for the same reason - simply to try to increase your wealth.

[jellywrestler]

Have you heard of the internet? It's where most people search for houses. I hear Trademe is popular so estate company affiliation is pointless.

And yes sadly there will be another influx of people trying to earn a crust. If you see me wearing a red coat. Don't ask.

PS just reading the May issues of CMM. June advertises coming mag with a tasty looking MV you might be interested in seeing.

i don't like the morals of real estate agents but when they show people through houses they get an idea of what is right for them and giude them to other properties. i hate using them but have found that they serve a purpose., selling privately rarely works out best unfortunately.

[F5 Dave]

Worked fine for me. I paid for a valuation from a registered valuer who based thier number on recent house sales in the area and compared those houses. Expert opinion from someone with no skin in the game or bias. Present that document to prospective buyers and everyone feels like they are paying/receiving a fair price.

I didn't want lots of buyers. One was enough as long as the price was good. And I saved 3.5% of the value of the house on fees and trumped up advertising.

Heck this was pre Trademe houses and using a self designed sign $80 from sign place and a couple of cheeky home made ones.

I'd do it again no question.

[jellywrestler]

Worked fine for me. I paid for a valuation from a registered valuer who based thier number on recent house sales in the area and compared those houses. Expert opinion from someone with no skin in the game or bias. Present that document to prospective buyers and everyone feels like they are paying/receiving a fair price.

I didn't want lots of buyers. One was enough as long as the price was good. And I saved 3.5% of the value of the house on fees and trumped up advertising.

Heck this was pre Trademe houses and using a self designed sign $80 from sign place and a couple of cheeky home made ones.

I'd do it again no question.

so why do second hand car dealers exist if trademe is so all encompassing?

lots of buyers get lots of offers, i work for a property flipper and recently he was getting $30-$50k more than expecting for houses, down to those pesky real estate agents simply.

[F5 Dave]

2nd hand car dealers? For the lazy and nervous. That was easy.

However.
This market is something I am not experienced in, I'll keenly admit. But the media tells us that demand is still outstripping supply, so yeah prices I'd expect would be hard to pick. I'm not any sort of expert and your client probably is.

I just don't trust an agent to be competent when volume gets him way more money than negotiating the best deal.

[GazzaH]

Prior to COVID, demand was pushing up prices.

Now people are out of jobs, or nervous about losing their jobs, or concerned about their 'investments' having plummeted in value, or anxious about the election, or petrified of a resurgence of COVID-19 or the emergence of COVID-20 ... or ....

Nervousness stops or slows investment and 'change' in general. Estate agents now have to work harder for a living - selling on behalf of the vendors.

[F5 Dave]

I'm just stating the obvious - before anyone tries suggesting it's done for a noble cause.
I'm not hearing a No, on those potatoes :love:

[jellywrestler]

Prior to COVID, demand was pushing up prices.

Now people are out of jobs, or nervous about losing their jobs, or concerned about their 'investments' having plummeted in value, or anxious about the election, or petrified of a resurgence of COVID-19 or the emergence of COVID-20 ... or ....

Nervousness stops or slows investment and 'change' in general. Estate agents now have to work harder for a living - selling on behalf of the vendors.

wait till there's a flood of rentals on the market from people who thought they were wealthy having rentals but in reality don't have anything up their sleeve for a downturn....

[ellipsis]

...I've been practicing at being broke all my life...it's been real easy...the training has paid off, too...

[Viking01]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/jun/17/uk-begins-talks-with-australia-and-new-zealand-on-free-trade-deal-for-post-brexit-era

[R650R]

Looking at a big engine parts order.... what’s cheapest at moment????

NZ dealership or buy online via one of those big USA outfits????

[James Deuce]

Looking at a big engine parts order.... what’s cheapest at moment????

NZ dealership or buy online via one of those big USA outfits????
USA but delivery time will be random.
NZ dealership will be next year when they've filled a container and it sails around the globe three times

[R650R]

USA but delivery time will be random.
NZ dealership will be next year when they've filled a container and it sails around the globe three times

Cheers. I forgot also to factor the pain of going to dealership masked up and waiting for a quote also....

[jellywrestler]

Looking at a big engine parts order.... what’s cheapest at moment????

NZ dealership or buy online via one of those big USA outfits????

you can get caught out if they don't have everything in stock and they send you a part order doubling freight. What brand of bike, you'd be surprised on some how competitive local pricing is, then if it's not right you can sort it there and then

[jellywrestler]

Cheers. I forgot also to factor the pain of going to dealership masked up and waiting for a quote also....

sort out the part numbers yourself and email them, job done