More Awesome Tires

[Beekeeper]

https://www.indiamart.com/proddetail/hot-tear-tyres-5018668491.html

[malcy25]

get in while they're hot!

[rastuscat]

On a slightly tangential note, I do wonder at the faith we place in the established companies.

If someone comes into the market with a great product, they struggle against our faith in the established brands.

Few of us are keen to be the test pilot of motorcycle tyres though, unless of course we were given a free pair. I'd hate to pay for a set then find they are dreadful.

Interesting post, thought provoking.

[Gremlin]

Few of us are keen to be the test pilot of motorcycle tyres though, unless of course we were given a free pair. I'd hate to pay for a set then find they are dreadful.
Tyres are subjective, so the only way to know for sure, is using yourself. Tried 16 different models of tyres on the GSA in ~150k (some more than once of course). Some I won't touch again, even on a different bike, some I love.

[rastuscat]

Tyres are subjective, so the only way to know for sure, is using yourself. Tried 16 different models of tyres on the GSA in ~150k (some more than once of course). Some I won't touch again, even on a different bike, some I love.

Indeed. I've found that once I have found a good set, it's hard to change brands. So I've missed out on improved brands.

I fancy a set of Michelin Road 5, but I've had Metzler for so long, it's hard to change.

[pritch]

I fancy a set of Michelin Road 5, but I've had Metzler for so long, it's hard to change.

Both good choices.

The tyre choice situation is complicated by the fact that new bikes sometimes come with a special budget version of a known tyre. There is nothing to suggest the tyres are different to what you'd buy retail, until they frighten the crap out of you on a wet road.

[george formby]

Both good choices.

The tyre choice situation is complicated by the fact that new bikes sometimes come with a special budget version of a known tyre. There is nothing to suggest the tyres are different to what you'd buy retail, until they frighten the crap out of you on a wet road.

Yup, had a bike eons ago with OEM Bridgestones, same designation as I was using on another, identical, bike. Loved the tyres I'd had fitted but the OEM's were dreadful. They were so bad for handling feel I thought their was something wrong with the new bike. And don't mention rain.. Again.

Weird and a common story I believe.

[Blackbird]

Indeed. I've found that once I have found a good set, it's hard to change brands. So I've missed out on improved brands.

I fancy a set of Michelin Road 5, but I've had Metzler for so long, it's hard to change.

Peter, I had 2 sets of Metzler 01's on my GSX-S1000 and found them to be excellent, then went to the Road 5's. The turn-in on the 05's was quicker and grip in both wet and dry conditions was similar (I run out of talent well before the grip of most reputable brands :innocent:). Unfortunately, I then got a whole string of punctures on the Road 5's, including one which wrote the rear tyre off. I could never be certain whether the 5's were more susceptible to the conditions I rode in or whether it was sheer bloody bad luck. Anyway, I changed to a KTM not long afterwards and got rid of the Maxxis OEM pure sport tyres as they didn't grip in cold, wet conditions. Replaced them with Bridgestone T31 sport touring tyres which did the biz but lost their shape badly by 8000 km. Now back on Road 5's after deciding to give them the benefit of the doubt re punctures. Just loving the "feel" of them for my type of riding. Wet weather performance is exceptional and dry is just fine too. Just hoping not to get punctures......

Some photos here: https://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2020/05/new-tyres-again.html .

[Gremlin]

I fancy a set of Michelin Road 5, but I've had Metzler for so long, it's hard to change.
Like a sportsbike tyre for the GSA. Least mileage from any set of Roads I've used (sub 10k and the edges were gone first), but holy crap, the grip was insane. Fully leant over, didn't even have to be careful and really smooth on the throttle, it gripped, kept gripping, hmm, off the edge of the rear, better just ease off ya idiot :innocent:

[Swoop]

If someone comes into the market with a great product, they struggle against our faith in the established brands.

The kiwi mentality of "cheap is good!" will swiftly supply a lot of product reviews...

[Bonez]

The kiwi mentality of "cheap is good!" will swiftly supply a lot of product reviews...Never had to use a motorcycle specific oil in any of my motorcycles since 1979...... Some times a product turns up that is cheaper and does the job better brands perport to do. That is reality.:yawn:

[Laava]

Peter, I had 2 sets of Metzler 01's on my GSX-S1000 and found them to be excellent, then went to the Road 5's. The turn-in on the 05's was quicker and grip in both wet and dry conditions was similar (I run out of talent well before the grip of most reputable brands :innocent:). Unfortunately, I then got a whole string of punctures on the Road 5's, including one which wrote the rear tyre off. I could never be certain whether the 5's were more susceptible to the conditions I rode in or whether it was sheer bloody bad luck. Anyway, I changed to a KTM not long afterwards and got rid of the Maxxis OEM pure sport tyres as they didn't grip in cold, wet conditions. Replaced them with Bridgestone T31 sport touring tyres which did the biz but lost their shape badly by 8000 km. Now back on Road 5's after deciding to give them the benefit of the doubt re punctures. Just loving the "feel" of them for my type of riding. Wet weather performance is exceptional and dry is just fine too. Just hoping not to get punctures......

Some photos here: https://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2020/05/new-tyres-again.html .
I had a pair of Angel GT's on my bike and at about 60 % wear on some gravel roads down the line the rear tyre just absolutely collapsed. It was delaminating according to the mech who removed it. It had multiple punctures that all happened at the same time and despite using both dog turds and a tyre plugger, the only thing that got me to safety was a tyre pando. As we reinflated after the tyre pando it was spooging out in about another 6 places where there were pinholes. Since then have gone to PR 05's and am now on my 2nd set, the 1st one wearing down to the canvas. I know they now do a GT version as well for the bigger machines but they are a lot more money as well

[Blackbird]

I had a pair of Angel GT's on my bike and at about 60 % wear on some gravel roads down the line the rear tyre just absolutely collapsed. It was delaminating according to the mech who removed it. It had multiple punctures that all happened at the same time and despite using both dog turds and a tyre plugger, the only thing that got me to safety was a tyre pando. As we reinflated after the tyre pando it was spooging out in about another 6 places where there were pinholes. Since then have gone to PR 05's and am now on my 2nd set, the 1st one wearing down to the canvas. I know they now do a GT version as well for the bigger machines but they are a lot more money as well

Interesting! I've read about delamination problems with ordinary Angels when they first came out but haven't seen any complaints for a long time. When the Avon Storm first came out, they had a quality control problem with the front tyre which caused a slight shake through the bars above 30 km/hr. It was thought to be a bad batch and I had one of them. It was replaced free of charge.

One of my IAM mates has had a series of punctures with Road 5's on his KTM 1290 GT but again, it may have been sheer bad luck rather than a light carcass. There's no disputing that their performance is exceptional.

[SaferRides]

Peter, I had 2 sets of Metzler 01's on my GSX-S1000 and found them to be excellent, then went to the Road 5's. The turn-in on the 05's was quicker and grip in both wet and dry conditions was similar (I run out of talent well before the grip of most reputable brands :innocent:). Unfortunately, I then got a whole string of punctures on the Road 5's, including one which wrote the rear tyre off. I could never be certain whether the 5's were more susceptible to the conditions I rode in or whether it was sheer bloody bad luck. Anyway, I changed to a KTM not long afterwards and got rid of the Maxxis OEM pure sport tyres as they didn't grip in cold, wet conditions. Replaced them with Bridgestone T31 sport touring tyres which did the biz but lost their shape badly by 8000 km. Now back on Road 5's after deciding to give them the benefit of the doubt re punctures. Just loving the "feel" of them for my type of riding. Wet weather performance is exceptional and dry is just fine too. Just hoping not to get punctures......

Some photos here: https://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2020/05/new-tyres-again.html .What mileage did you get from the Road 5's? I've been running the Metzeler M7RR on the R1 for a few years now, which have generally been great and last well for a sports tyre. But the rear tyre I fitted at Christmas has not felt the same as the previous ones and seems more skaty somehow, so I may try something different.

[pritch]

Yup, had a bike eons ago with OEM Bridgestones, same designation as I was using on another, identical, bike. Loved the tyres I'd had fitted but the OEM's were dreadful. They were so bad for handling feel I thought their was something wrong with the new bike. And don't mention rain.. Again.

Weird and a common story I believe.

Bridgestone were the guilty party in my experience too. The OE Bridgestone 020 (IIRC) tyres were tossed after the first wet ride.

The Bridgestone OE tyres on the Hornet were so dire that if it was raining the day you were due to take delivery of the bike, the owners groups recommended that you leave the bike at the shop. It was wiser to wait for better weather.

[Blackbird]

What mileage did you get from the Road 5's? I've been running the Metzeler M7RR on the R1 for a few years now, which have generally been great and last well for a sports tyre. But the rear tyre I fitted at Christmas has not felt the same as the previous ones and seems more skaty somehow, so I may try something different.

I didn't get the full life from the first rear as it had to be replaced when it punctured. The second one didn't reach end of life because I sold the GSX-S1000! From memory, the front was still in reasonable condition at around 8000 km. Living on the Coromandel Peninsula and not using my bikes for commuting definitely has an impact on tyre wear. The rears stand up well (punctures excluded :facepalm:) but the fronts of any brand start to go wedge-shaped from about 6000 km onwards. I guess this is due in part to continual countersteering. My mental acceptable yardstick for a set of sport touring tyres has been somewhere around 10000 km. Unfortunately, the front on my set of T31's was stuffed at 8500 km, although the rear would have probably lasted to 10000 km. Tyre life is enormously influenced by suspension, total weight, the conditions you ride in, how you ride and what you use the bike for. Really hard to make comparisons between riders and machines. The only thing I'll add is that after I upgraded the suspension on my Honda Blackbird, I got close to an extra 2000 km out of a set of tyres.

[george formby]

I didn't get the full life from the first rear as it had to be replaced when it punctured. The second one didn't reach end of life because I sold the GSX-S1000! From memory, the front was still in reasonable condition at around 8000 km. Living on the Coromandel Peninsula and not using my bikes for commuting definitely has an impact on tyre wear. The rears stand up well (punctures excluded :facepalm:) but the fronts of any brand start to go wedge-shaped from about 6000 km onwards. I guess this is due in part to continual countersteering. My mental acceptable yardstick for a set of sport touring tyres has been somewhere around 10000 km. Unfortunately, the front on my set of T31's was stuffed at 8500 km, although the rear would have probably lasted to 10000 km. Tyre life is enormously influenced by suspension, total weight, the conditions you ride in, how you ride and what you use the bike for. Really hard to make comparisons between riders and machines. The only thing I'll add is that after I upgraded the suspension on my Honda Blackbird, I got close to an extra 2000 km out of a set of tyres.

I used to V my front tyres really badly riding similarly twisty roads to what you have in the Coromandel.

Turned out it was caused by my riding, I would still be releasing the front brake as I turned in. Never happened since I stopped braking so deep into a corner. (Never had a whoopsie, my riding style has just changed over time.)

"
Bridgestone were the guilty party in my experience too. The OE Bridgestone 020 (IIRC) tyres were tossed after the first wet ride.

The Bridgestone OE tyres on the Hornet were so dire that if it was raining the day you were due to take delivery of the bike, the owners groups recommended that you leave the bike at the shop. It was wiser to wait for better weather. "


It always rains when I get new tyres, every single time.

[Blackbird]

I used to V my front tyres really badly riding similarly twisty roads to what you have in the Coromandel.

Turned out it was caused by my riding, I would still be releasing the front brake as I turned in. Never happened since I stopped braking so deep into a corner. (Never had a whoopsie, my riding style has just changed over time.)

"

It always rains when I get new tyres, every single time.

That's an interesting outcome! That's unlikely to be the cause in my case as I rarely use the brakes for bends, mainly a combination of throttle and gearbox to chase the vanishing point. I am aware that I countersteer quite aggressively when "making progress" though and have always assumed that was the major contributor. Small price to pay for the pleasure of riding twisty roads, eh? :scooter:

[george formby]

That's an interesting outcome! That's unlikely to be the cause in my case as I rarely use the brakes for bends, mainly a combination of throttle and gearbox to chase the vanishing point. I am aware that I countersteer quite aggressively when "making progress" though and have always assumed that was the major contributor. Small price to pay for the pleasure of riding twisty roads, eh? :scooter:

:yes:

Pretty sure that I have never considered tyre wear while riding. Use them while they're fresh, I say.

[F5 Dave]

I used to V my front tyres really badly riding similarly twisty roads to what you have in the Coromandel.
. . .

"

It always rains when I get new tyres, every single time.
Maybe you could hire yourself out in far north during drought season. Heck, get them to buy you a new set of tyres up there.

[george formby]

Maybe you could hire yourself out in far north during drought season. Heck, get them to buy you a new set of tyres up there.

Ha, it is a bit like the truck driving rain god from the Hitchhikers Guide...

Funnily enough, it's been raining here all day, I am in the Far North, kinda.

[F5 Dave]

Rob McKenna, I'd forgotten about him.

[pritch]

It always rains when I get new tyres, every single time.

That's OK, if I buy a new bike I expect biblical downpours for a week. I haven't always been disappointed. Such is life.

[Swoop]

Never had to use a motorcycle specific oil in any of my motorcycles since 1979...... Some times a product turns up that is cheaper and does the job better brands perport to do. That is reality.:yawn:
btw : "purport".


Yup, just like I said, the "cheapness" will attract lots of kiwis and reveiws will follow. Some might indicate the product is shit. Another item may elicit "this is way better than the regular and dearer stuff", so either way feedback will happen. Getting a product into the marketplace is straightforward nowadays, but getting customers to purchase...

[SaferRides]

That's an interesting outcome! That's unlikely to be the cause in my case as I rarely use the brakes for bends, mainly a combination of throttle and gearbox to chase the vanishing point. I am aware that I countersteer quite aggressively when "making progress" though and have always assumed that was the major contributor. Small price to pay for the pleasure of riding twisty roads, eh? :scooter:The RH shoulder usually flattens off on the R1 after about 10 - 12,000 km. I'm not sure why it's just one side, perhaps it's road camber or because I tend to go harder in RH corners. The M7RR front is single compound, so it's not that.

I don't consciously counter steer the R1 much, although I certainly did on the previous bike and the front wore evenly.

I have thought that it might be pressure as I run the front 2 psi low, but somehow I doubt it.

[Owl]

The Bridgestone OE tyres on the Hornet were so dire that if it was raining the day you were due to take delivery of the bike, the owners groups recommended that you leave the bike at the shop. It was wiser to wait for better weather.
Wouldn't that apply to just about any new tyre?

For about the last 12 years I've cleaned every new tyre I've fitted with Brakeleen. Only new tyre that's let go in all that time was the rear on my 1290 the day I picked it up from the dealer. Dry conditions and about a km from the shop (50kph zone) the rear decided to come around to meet the front. I could've kicked myself for not doing what I knew worked.

Oh and tyres were Dunlop Sportsmart 2's

[Bonez]

Wouldn't that apply to just about any new tyre?One would think so. I just go for a wee toodle up the nearest gravel road after giving them a stuff with 100 grit emery paper. I think Bear in an article in an early '80s Aussie Two Wheels magizine suggested it.

[Laava]

There is nothing hard about scrubbing in new tyres and although they tend to be a bit slippy in the wet, if you are struggling with it then maybe motorcycling is not for you.

[Beekeeper]

The RH shoulder usually flattens off on the R1 after about 10 - 12,000 km. I'm not sure why it's just one side, perhaps it's road camber or because I tend to go harder in RH corners. The M7RR front is single compound, so it's not that.

I don't consciously counter steer the R1 much, although I certainly did on the previous bike and the front wore evenly.

I have thought that it might be pressure as I run the front 2 psi low, but somehow I doubt it.


The RH side predominantly wears more due to camber, dont believe me go check your local shops tire dumpster. Regarding trail braking- same thing its the camber that causes uneven wear. My bike has an IMU that tell me lean angle and even though I think I favour the right the data says degree of lean identical both sides. Since the IMU reads 0 degrees as a line perpendicular to the ground it disregards road camber which in NZ is typically 3 to 5% on seal roads.

[Beekeeper]

There is nothing hard about scrubbing in new tyres and although they tend to be a bit slippy in the wet, if you are struggling with it then maybe motorcycling is not for you.

People put on new tires at the track and within 2 laps are full tit. The days of super slippery new tires are gone (at least with the major manufacturers) I usually ask the shop to drop a few psi and make sure I ride very carefully for the first couple of k's then mash the throttle and brakes a bit in a straight line to get them hot then work steadily into the corners.

Dont do this (why is it always a gixxer?)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9zNUPDmnz4

[rastuscat]

The RH side predominantly wears more due to camber, dont believe me go check your local shops tire dumpster. Regarding trail braking- same thing its the camber that causes uneven wear. My bike has an IMU that tell me lean angle and even though I think I favour the right the data says degree of lean identical both sides. Since the IMU reads 0 degrees as a line perpendicular to the ground it disregards road camber which in NZ is typically 3 to 5% on seal roads.

I think an IMU is based on a gyro, or possibly an electronic version of one. So it gives lean angle based on deflection from the upright position, regardless of camber.

I think it doesn't factor camber in, because that is always changing.

Happy to learn to the contrary, it's really interesting.

[Bonez]

I think an IMU is based on a gyro, or possibly an electronic version of one. So it gives lean angle based on deflection from the upright position, regardless of camber.

I think it doesn't factor camber in, because that is always changing.

Happy to learn to the contrary, it's really interesting.You really do need the complete some physics courses.

[rastuscat]

You really do need the complete some physics courses.

I come to KB willing to learn.