1190 R Adv - Not charging

[snodpete]

2013 KTM 1190R AU - 50,000km. I got the 'Low Battery' warning two weeks back. Charged the battery overnight and riding to work I noticed the dash readout was under 12v. Have tested reg/rec diodes, also tried swapping it with a new cheap import one - no change.

Today I pulled the tank, checked stator connector, checked stator resistance and short to ground as per service manual - all to spec. Battery is 2 year old Yuasa (same as OEM).
Voltage readout on dash shows about 11.8v when running and doesn't change when revved up to 5K; slowly drops over a couple of days when I will charge battery again on bench. Measured across the battery terminals with meter gives slightly higher voltage but no change with revs.

I've been using bike daily on a short commute - putting battery on charger every second day and it keeps starting and running OK. Am a bit stumped what to do next - will have an auto sparky test the battery and maybe repeat some of my checks to confirm. Any gurus out there have other suggestions of possible things I haven't checked?

Dealer is final option and tricky as nearest is 300km away and bike would need to be trailered.

[Bonez]

Regular/reg unit is fucked. Replace it or you can kill the battery as well

[pete376403]

Can you check the stator output with the r/r disconnected? You should be seeing AC volts between each of the three leads and ground, the service manual might specify the output at a certain engine speed eg my Suzuki should be something like "more than 75V AC at 5000 rpm" If the stator is ok then the next step must be the r/r or the connection between them. Shindengen Mosfet R/Rs seem to be favoured these days

[snodpete]

I just had a brainwave that it wasn't on this bike I replaced the battery - but the previous 990. Yuasa is possibly original so 7 years old. I will get it proper tested by auto sparky and go from there. Thanks for your ideas so far.

[Laava]

If you are having to replace the reg/rec, definately upgrade to. Shindengan mosfet. Kinder to your stator and batt. Also, does not need to be going to a bike shop, it is a basic chargng issue easily and cost effectively dealt with by auto sparky,...
also, if you email Yuasa with the batt code, they will tell you how old it is...

[Owl]

If you are having to replace the reg/rec, definately upgrade to. Shindengan mosfet. Kinder to your stator and batt.


Bollocks!

Shindengen mosfet R/R does nothing to protect the stator. Just got to look at the Triumph forums where wankers convinced people to replace their old SCR R/R's (preventative maintenance) with Shindengen Mosfet units, only to find they started killing stators. Then the new word was to ditch them and replace them with Shindengen Series R/R's as they allow the stators to run cooler. I think some people just need to STFU!:mad:

There's also nothing wrong with the reliability of the KTM parts. Have the same R/R and stator in my 1290 and never missed a beat in 112,000km.

[Bonez]

Bollocks!

Shindengen mosfet R/R does nothing to protect the stator. Just got to look at the Triumph forums where wankers convinced people to replace their old SCR R/R's (preventative maintenance) with Shindengen Mosfet units, only to find they started killing stators. Then the new word was to ditch them and replace them with Shindengen Series R/R's as they allow the stators to run cooler. I think some people just need to STFU!:mad:
.Yipsireebob.

[Laava]

Bollocks!

Shindengen mosfet R/R does nothing to protect the stator. Then the new word was to ditch them and replace them with Shindengen Series R/R's as they allow the stators to run cooler. .
Bit ambiguous here! Make your fucking mind up! Having recently changed mine out I am reliably informed that the R/R I fitted lightens the load on the stator considerably. But you can just carry on getting all angry about it if you want...

[Bonez]

Bit ambiguous here! Make your fucking mind up! Having recently changed mine out I am reliably informed that the R/R I fitted lightens the load on the stator considerably. But you can just carry on getting all angry about it if you want...You have heard of marketing twaddle haven't you?:yawn:

[Owl]

Bit ambiguous here! Make your fucking mind up! Having recently changed mine out I am reliably informed that the R/R I fitted lightens the load on the stator considerably. But you can just carry on getting all angry about it if you want...

I believe I've already responded to this ^^^ below.


I think some people just need to STFU!:mad:

[Laava]

I believe I've already responded to this ^^^ below.
Think you might have an anger problem. Too many blows to the head? GFY:motu:

[F5 Dave]

Can you check the stator output with the r/r disconnected? You should be seeing AC volts between each of the three leads and ground, the service manual might specify the output at a certain engine speed eg my Suzuki should be something like "more than 75V AC at 5000 rpm" If the stator is ok then the next step must be the r/r or the connection between them. Shindengen Mosfet R/Rs seem to be favoured these days

This. Its the only thing that will tell you independently if the stator is ok.



. . . .
Voltage readout on dash shows about 11.8v when running and doesn't change when revved up to 5K; . . . .

So either the battery is working to drag the voltage down to a constant level. More than unlikely. Or the regulator has been reprogrammed to 11.8V instead of circa 14V. Also unlikely.

Or the voltage is not getting to the regulator in sufficient value and you are just seeing the battery voltage under load of running.

An auto electrician will be able to perform this test if you are not confident. But try gain access to the connection as it comes out of the sidecover and snakes its way to the regulator so it can be unplugged and tested.

If you get reasonable AC voltage (>50VAC) when running and blipped , moderately equal between the 3 same coloured wires. Then it isnt making it into or out of the regulator

[snodpete]

Thanks for the contributions so far guys - I went to auto sparky yesterday and it seems stator is pakaru: different readings on 3 phases. Also RR connector plug had one scorched contact (one of the yellow wires from stator) - this could be a symptom of stator imbalance, or the bad connection caused the whole problem.

I've got a used stator coming from Aus, and would like to replace the RR connector plug as well - it is pretty anonymous apart from a four leaf clover shaped symbol and 'Y05' on the cover plate (see attached) - any ideas where I can source one of those?

[F5 Dave]

Good to hear you have clear progress, and I'm not surprised the outcome.

Heres what I did and why I did it. Hear me out.

Cut the connector off both sides. Slide on some heatshrink and find some uninsulated open barrel crimps , the type that wrap around like bullet connectors you find on most Japanese bikes. I've cut the bullet off to get the crimp part. I've just got some double end crimps, I can post you a handful if you have trouble getting some.

Pre insulated terminals are the work of the devil.

So why should you do this? Won't this make it hard to pull apart again?

This isn't the first time I've heard of this connection melting. Or the tenth. A bad connection here will get hot. A crimped connection is what holds your loom together and is robust when done properly.
Part 2, how often do you think you will need to undo this joint? Only if the stator fails again. Then you just cut the joint on the stator. But this will remove one failure point. All going well it will never happen again.

Prevention. Never let the battery run down too far. Plug it into a trickle charger every so often.
Replace the battery if duff.
Take the plug out of the regulator and scrub clean if corrosion slightly evident. Some manufacturers use a white dielectric grease here to keep the joints clean .

Low oil level overheats stators.

Good luck.

[snodpete]

Agree these terminals are wicked - I always struggle to find the tricky tang needed to release them, and usually only find it by breaking it first! Unfortunately this is the plug that attaches directly to the Reg Rec - so replacement with new is the best option. Cheers for your suggestions anyway.

[pete376403]

Night be this type - (its blue, for a start) https://www.bosch-connectors.com/view/product/Trapez-Connector-5P-Code-B-Black/1928405159

No idea where you would find them, though (maybe pick-a-part, on eurotrash cars?)

[Bonez]

Agree these terminals are wicked - I always struggle to find the tricky tang needed to release them, and usually only find it by breaking it first! Unfortunately this is the plug that attaches directly to the Reg Rec - so replacement with new is the best option. Cheers for your suggestions anyway.A a small jewelers flat bladed screw driver works just fine for tangs.

[snodpete]

Have found TWO suppliers of the RegRec connector plug: one in UK - https://kojaycat.co.uk/epages/950000457.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/950000457/Products/5W-YAM-RECT-CONN

One in the USA - https://www.corsa-technic.com/item.php?item_id=1250&category_id=256 - It's the same part as Yamaha R6 and a few others.

Don't fancy my chances getting stuff from either at any speed... Anyone recognise / know where in NZ to start looking (Google has not been any help for local suppliers so far)?

[pete376403]

Corsa in the US do Fedex and DHL shipping. You could get it in a week if you're really keen, but it might be a bit expensive. DHL Worldwide, about a week - $84, Fedex International Priority, 1 - 3 business days - $135.

[snodpete]

So... turns out the 1190 stator was pakaru - 2 poles burnt out. The reg/rec was fine - Got a used stator on eBay Oz - there seem to be quite a few around internationally as the same part fits SuperDukes etc. Cost about $200 landed which is a bit of a contrast to the $420 I was quoted for a new KTM reg/rec - I didn't bother asking for a stator price.

Bike is all fixed now - I just have to get back to Chch to pick it up :mellow:

[Owl]

Cost about $200 landed which is a bit of a contrast to the $420 I was quoted for a new KTM reg/rec - I didn't bother asking for a stator price.

US$134 new at KTM Parts Pro for the stator. Of course it would cost to get it landed here. By comparison though, the R/R is listed at US$110, so who's making all the money.

Nearly everything I've bought for my 1290 has come ex US.

[F5 Dave]

Cool. Glad you are back up and running

My last tip us one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Motorcycle-Battery-Alternator-Charge-monitor-level-indicator-warning-bike-G/200826330214?hash=item2ec22e9c66:g:QWIAAOxyY9VROzR z

If the light starts flashing when its running you are in trouble and need to head home.

[Frodo]

Cool. Glad you are back up and running

My last tip us one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/LED-Motorcycle-Battery-Alternator-Charge-monitor-level-indicator-warning-bike-G/200826330214?hash=item2ec22e9c66:g:QWIAAOxyY9VROzR z

If the light starts flashing when its running you are in trouble and need to head home.

How well would these work with a lithium battery? Website doesn't refer to lithium.

[F5 Dave]

Doesn't matter, well, you can configure them by cutting a wire, and that puts them in stator monitor mode.

Bike on, voltage is too low so it is red. Then starts flashing as it's not charging. Start the bike, it is happy and turns to green.

Led stays green while bike is running.

Unless it doesn't and then you know right then you have a problem brewing.