Electronic Rider Aids

[Laava]

Do you rate them or not?
I have decided I can pretty much do without them except I love my cruise control now. I use it more and more. TC, HSC, Bluetooth etc etc I could happily do without.
I am aware that most of it is just a program in the ecu, maybe aided by a small device like an IMU or an aerial etc so not much in the way of weight.

[caspernz]

Rider aids come in many forms. We all have different outlooks.

Electronic suspension control is something that seems like a gimmick, until you have a ride on a bike equipped with it.

ABS was once seen as a rider aid we can do without. Wouldn't be without it now.

TC is nifty, the newer the system the better it'll be. My current bikes don't have TC but my next one no doubt will.

IMU controlled ABS is another level again, it goes against the grain to use a lot of brake whilst leaned over, but the electronics can keep it all in check...yet my thought would be what if it malfunctions?

[Gremlin]

Interesting debate, my general position would be undecided. Cruise control is one I haven't had, but would like. Recently purchased a bike, it doesn't have it, and while I said a while ago the next probably would, other criteria were further up the list.

Now 2/3 have ABS (no cornering ABS) and traction control. BMW has electronic suspension (and that's freaken fantastic) and tyre pressure monitoring (saved my bacon with a tyre that had a bad bead). KTM has riding modes that control power and traction, and ABS that can be front on, rear off, very handy as well. Hornet... uh, has an engine and brakes.

BMW traction control has both saved my bacon and given me a high side, so I'm on the fence. I don't think I've had any situations where it was down to the aids to save me and my tyre choice probably has more effect on my riding than any aids.

I think for learning riders, things like ABS are really valuable in assisting keep the bike under control.

[jim.cox]

Do you rate them or not?

No, not at all.

I'm a Luddite - I like things simple.

All my vehicles are old - much easier to maintain and keep running without the electronic gimmicks.

[eldog]

Electronic suspension, this seems to be emerging tech.

there doesn’t seem to be a lot of reviews of it BMW excluded.



cornering: ABS, traction control sound good.


next will be adaptive radar cruise control and blind spot monitoring?

although it can be annoying, well worth it. At least in my car anyway.

[Laava]

Interesting debate, my general position would be undecided. Cruise control is one I haven't had, but would like. Recently purchased a bike, it doesn't have it, and while I said a while ago the next probably would, other criteria were further up the list.

Now 2/3 have ABS (no cornering ABS) and traction control. BMW has electronic suspension (and that's freaken fantastic) and tyre pressure monitoring (saved my bacon with a tyre that had a bad bead). KTM has riding modes that control power and traction, and ABS that can be front on, rear off, very handy as well. Hornet... uh, has an engine and brakes.

BMW traction control has both saved my bacon and given me a high side, so I'm on the fence. I don't think I've had any situations where it was down to the aids to save me and my tyre choice probably has more effect on my riding than any aids.

I think for learning riders, things like ABS are really valuable in assisting keep the bike under control.

Actually, you're right about the electronic suspension. It is very, very cool.
I have two bikes, one with everything and one with nothing and both of them are awesome to ride.
The newer, upspecced Ducatis have handsfree ign as you would expect with handsfree gas caps. (Not mine) Sounds pretty unneccessary right? Giving a few people a bit of grief it turns out. If you can't even put gas into your bike cos the computer says "no" then it all seems a bit silly. And it is an expensive fix if you are out of warranty

[Gremlin]

The newer, upspecced Ducatis have handsfree ign as you would expect with handsfree gas caps. (Not mine) Sounds pretty unneccessary right? Giving a few people a bit of grief it turns out. If you can't even put gas into your bike cos the computer says "no" then it all seems a bit silly. And it is an expensive fix if you are out of warranty
KTMs and BMWs also have keyless ignition (probably amongst others). Some I've spoken to love it (mainly around remembering your key in your pocket when you're sitting on your bike with your gloves on). Personally it's tech for tech's sake. I like having somewhere handy and visible to keep my key (like the ignition). It also doesn't require a degree to turn the bike on and off.

On that note, TFT screens are too new. So far plenty of complaints from owners across brands about apps not working, headsets having problems connecting, screens getting scratched... Yeah, I'll stay away from that for now thanks.

[F5 Dave]

My Street has a useful clock on the dash. It would be nice if it changed for daylight saving time without manual intervention.

I'd like ABS for trips away which invariably have at least a rainy day. That's the only reason I'd consider a change.

I've ridden a mates R1M with electronic suspension which didn't impress at first sedate transit stage. But then as things got busy bendy and a bit choppy it was like nothing else I'd ridden.

How does cruise control work when you have your hand rest as throttle? I've only recently got a car with it for the school run. I love setting it for long straight sections involved and not have to worry about speeding or constantly monitoring the dash. Just turn brake or push the button off.

[F5 Dave]

How about gen 3 rider aids? (Assuming we are at about 2.0 now). How about aids to make me awesome :headbang:. That would be worth paying for.

Or how about anti stupidity override. I dont mean nanny state- cant break rules stuff. I just mean those crazy overtaking moves we see people do.

How about your bike pulling over and giving you a right talking to. I mean pull your socks up. You could have badly scratched my paint. What do you have to say for yourself?

Have to give a convincingly contrite answer for the engine to start again.

[Hoonicorn]

somebody getting into motorcycling sees a bike has ABS and TC, they're more likely to start riding because they feel it's safer with those aids, which increases the number of people enjoying motorcycling. But I hear you say "feeling safer and being safer are two different things!" and "those electronics will give them a false sense of security!". True, the newbie or returning rider getting a bike with rider aids like ABS and TC will be relying on a safety net...

My impression is that most of the people against rider aids are older riders who "managed to survive this long without those electronics" and "miss the day when bikes could be serviced without a computer", and on a psychological level are on some kind of ego trip where having safety technology is like conceding some part of their riding skills and abilities to a computer, aids that in reality are much less likely to fail than they are, and improving all the time.

...IMHO, anything that can prevent motorcyclists becoming another statistic is a good thing. Some bikes even have a feature to call emergency services if the rider does have an accident.

[Laava]

My Street has a useful clock on the dash. It would be nice if it changed for daylight saving time without manual intervention.

I'd like ABS for trips away which invariably have at least a rainy day. That's the only reason I'd consider a change.

I've ridden a mates R1M with electronic suspension which didn't impress at first sedate transit stage. But then as things got busy bendy and a bit choppy it was like nothing else I'd ridden.

How does cruise control work when you have your hand rest as throttle? I've only recently got a car with it for the school run. I love setting it for long straight sections involved and not have to worry about speeding or constantly monitoring the dash. Just turn brake or push the button off.
The cruise works exactly as you would expect. You can still accelerate up to a higher speed and it will then drop back to set speed when you ease off but it is cancelled by either brake, clutch or if you roll the throttle back into it's stop.
Plus it also, and I havent actually read the manual here, seems to drop speed in a corner and then self resume.

[F5 Dave]

Ok so you'd have to hold it in a neutral position off the stop but not closed and not accelerating. I guess that makes sense esp the close throttle off bit which is natural.

The car you just take it off the pedal , resting in anticipation of braking or accelerating if needs be, or pushing a button to 'button off'

[F5 Dave]

how much would you pay for the Awesome Wheelie Master module?

I'd bet KTM is working on it.

[F5 Dave]

Ok here one for the touring rider. And I'm assuming by then everyone will have speedy drones flying ahead to take overhead video for your travel vblog and alert you to speed traps and traffic jams.

But how about an AI assessment of whether you should really pull over to put your wet gears on, based on the limited rating of your riding gear to withstand a shower.

Should you push on, it'll be past in a minute vs. oh shit I'm getting wet and now its pelting down so biblical I'll get soaked just changing if I can't find a tree or overhanging building. This would all be in the past.

That would be a good rider aid.

[george formby]

Heated massage seat.

A golf ball slipped into the pillion accommodation used to suffice on bumpy roads but times have changed.

[jim.cox]

My impression is that most of the people against rider aids are older riders

I resemble that remark


who "managed to survive this long without those electronics"

True


and "miss the day when bikes could be serviced without a computer"

False - I'm still living them


and on a psychological level are on some kind of ego trip where having safety technology is like conceding some part of their riding skills and abilities to a computer

Bullshit - I just don't want crap I don't need.


aids that in reality are much less likely to fail than they are, and improving all the time.

Perhaps - but electronics are usually not service parts - and getting replacements gets harder and harder as they get older. They also get more unreliable with age.


Some bikes even have a feature to call emergency services if the rider does have an accident.

And that's exactly the sort of snowflake nanny state crap I go riding to avoid....

[george formby]

Perhaps - but electronics are usually not service parts - and getting replacements gets harder and harder as they get older. They also get more unreliable with age.



This is pretty much my caveat. A lot of modern cars with a raft of electrical aids seem to have a finite life span. 10 years, if you're lucky?

If I could afford to get a new or near new bike every few years then no problem but longevity is still important for me. I have an instinctive distrust of small, cheaply made, expensive to replace sensors after a certain time span.

The car world is littered with examples of sensor and computer failures, I see no reason as time goes by that bikes will be any different.

From a safety perspective, more is good. As long as it's in the background and does not impede how I want to ride.

Oh, dicking around with "settings" every time the bike is turned on is very off putting.

I've been watching quite a few reviews of the KTM 790R and the Yammie T7. A recent watch had the rider of the KTM change his settings 3 times to get up a hill.:facepalm: That's not improvement, he had to switch everything off.

[jim.cox]

This is pretty much my caveat. A lot of modern cars with a raft of electrical aids seem to have a finite life span. 10 years, if you're lucky?


Exactly - The EFI unit in my 86 4WD failed last year - it was off the road for more than four months until a replacement could be found. A $250 part, but better that than $10K+ for a new old truck, or worse $70K for a new new one...

[Navy Boy]

To answer the OP's question - Things such as TC, ABS and so on all generate opinions for and against. Ask 5 different people and get 10 different answers sort of thing.

IMHO they are there for when you're heading to the airport/ferry/final destination at 2:37 on a Thursday afternoon, are thinking of something other than your riding and you hit a patch of something slippery around the same time as that dipstick in an old Toyota whatsisname pulls out on you. In other words when life happens to you instead of you happening to it.

So - Yes please. I'll take them every time.:yes:

[Laava]

Ok so you'd have to hold it in a neutral position off the stop but not closed and not accelerating. I guess that makes sense esp the close throttle off bit which is natural.

The car you just take it off the pedal , resting in anticipation of braking or accelerating if needs be, or pushing a button to 'button off'
no, you just leave the throttle at it's idle position. You have to put a little effort into turning it back to cancel the cruise. You wouldn't do it unintentionally. So you just relax and hold the bars lightly I guess...

[Laava]

To answer the OP's question - Things such as TC, ABS and so on all generate opinions for and against. Ask 5 different people and get 10 different answers sort of thing.

IMHO they are there for when you're heading to the airport/ferry/final destination at 2:37 on a Thursday afternoon, are thinking of something other than your riding and you hit a patch of something slippery around the same time as that dipstick in an old Toyota whatsisname pulls out on you. In other words when life happens to you instead of you happening to it.

So - Yes please. I'll take them every time.:yes:
Yep, it is easy to take them for granted, esp when you never have them cut in under normal riding conditions. I have had one accident involving the abs on my v strom where a farm quad did a u'ey in front of me on a metal road. I must have locked up the brakes, it all happens so quickly you struggle to recall exactly what went down.

[eldog]

Decent lights that look through corners etc

adaptive cruise control would be nice when there is a lot of traffic.

[oldiebutagoody]

Between my two current bikes; one has 2019 spec Suzuki rider aids. 2 stage TC and off. 6 axis IMU and front/rear linked ABS, the other relies entirely on what you have in the top 2 inches of your head.

Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.

The other bike just shrugs and says "you are the boss, what do you want me to do?"

It takes a concious decision to change riding styles between the two bikes; rider aids or not, that has always been the case anyway IMHO.e

Unless you plan on riding classics into the next few decades, rider aids ARE the future. Just another change to get used to and adapt to. Just like radial tyres, Fuel injection, ECU's, UD forks, O ring chains, disc brakes,......all of which have been introduced during my riding lifetime.

[pritch]

somebody getting into motorcycling sees a bike has ABS and TC, they're more likely to start riding because they feel it's safer with those aids, which increases the number of people enjoying motorcycling. But I hear you say "feeling safer and being safer are two different things!" and "those electronics will give them a false sense of security!". True, the newbie or returning rider getting a bike with rider aids like ABS and TC will be relying on a safety net...

I've never had ABS on a bike but would like it. I've got it on my car and have had it on heavy vehicles. Most people will never know it's there, you have to be braking really hard or be on a seriously slippery surface for it to kick in.

ABS arrived late in NZ because the importers were more interested in 'maintaining their margins'. We had to wait until it was made compulsory in major markets before it basically became more difficult for them to import bikes without ABS.



My impression is that most of the people against rider aids are older riders who "managed to survive this long without those electronics" and "miss the day when bikes could be serviced without a computer", and on a psychological level are on some kind of ego trip where having safety technology is like conceding some part of their riding skills and abilities to a computer, aids that in reality are much less likely to fail than they are, and improving all the time.

You assume too much. Somewhere there may be someone just such as you describe, but that's not the norm.


...IMHO, anything that can prevent motorcyclists becoming another statistic is a good thing.

Nobody much will argue with that.

[Bonez]

Some dick on AdvRider stated that ABS would stop him from sliding on a diesel spill.:bash:

Went in to education mode at him with regards to IDing slippery surfaces such as wet man hole covers, wet slippery road paint markings, slick road surfaces, gravel/pee gravel and diesol/oil spills. How they can be recognised and how to avoid them as much as possible. Poor fellow ran away. I think some riders rely too much on some of these gadgets and not observing what is going on in front of them.

[Navy Boy]

Between my two current bikes; one has 2019 spec Suzuki rider aids. 2 stage TC and off. 6 axis IMU and front/rear linked ABS, the other relies entirely on what you have in the top 2 inches of your head.

Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.

The other bike just shrugs and says "you are the boss, what do you want me to do?"

It takes a concious decision to change riding styles between the two bikes; rider aids or not, that has always been the case anyway IMHO.e

Unless you plan on riding classics into the next few decades, rider aids ARE the future. Just another change to get used to and adapt to. Just like radial tyres, Fuel injection, ECU's, UD forks, O ring chains, disc brakes,......all of which have been introduced during my riding lifetime.

Yep - And herein lies the rub with this question. My DR650 has nothing in the way of rider aids whereas the MV has the lot, including semi-active suspension. I love riding my DR and it's the one bike I'd keep if I had to sell the others and keep just one. However the MV's systems are ruddy good and enhance the riding experience IMHO.

Do I ride differently on the DR compared to the MV? Almost certainly yes though it's not a conscious decision. :msn-wink:

[george formby]

Same corner, different days, different bikes, two different outcomes. I almost went off the end of the corner when all control was taken away from me while trailbraking into a sharp downhill hairpin. "computer says NO". I say almost, as at the very last second before it took me over the centreline it came good on the promise to actually apply stopping power, if a little later than I was anticipating. Nice controlled trailbrake and throttle out corner turned into a sloppy J turn at slow speed amid much cursing. The 6 axis IMU seems calibrated to a theoretical threshold rather than a physical one.



Pretty much the opposite happened to me many years ago. Due to fatigue, youthful exuberance, muppetry, what ever, I went into a blind left hand bend way to hot. As I touched cloth my right foot increased pressure on the back brake causing the bike to tip in more and a wee slide. Luckily it pointed the bike where I needed to go and I didn't cross the centre line into the oncoming car. It happened in a blink, no time to think.

Potentially ABS would not have allowed this to happen and I wouldn't be here.

Rider aids are just that, helpful most of the time. Some folk consider them to be an angel on the shoulder but even angels can't beat physics.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Not all manufacturers execute the various aids to the same degree of success.
Triumph's cruise control is finicky compared to the BMW system, which just works, really simply. Don't even start me on the Aprilia version, that just ended up not being used, it was so unworkable.

In contrast to one comment about electronic suspension I would say this is fairly well developed technology now with many of the manufacturers giving it a go. I like the ease of adjustment with an electronic set up. I fear it breaking down and the resulting costs.
Having had a bike with suspension built for me which was manually adjustable I know how much that means to the sheer joy of riding and the satisfaction of experimenting to dial that suspension in for your riding style etc. Electronic suspension tends to offer someone elses approximations of how things should be, not quite the same.

ABS seems to be a no brainer to me, as is Traction Control

[Racing Dave]

ABS seems to be a no brainer to me, as is Traction Control

I gather that you never have, and never will, use your brakes on a gravel road or an off-road surface even more slippery. ABS is seriously dangerous in these circumstances. You'll stop by hitting something.

I gather that you never have, and never will, try to accelerate uphill on a gravel road, on the flat on sand, or an off-road surface even more slippery. Traction control will prevent you moving.

Electronic intervention can be a fine thing, but it's not the be all and end all.

[Bonez]

If you don't have it you don't miss it.:msn-wink: Ride to the fucken conditions and you should be fine.

[Ulsterkiwi]

I gather that you never have, and never will, use your brakes on a gravel road or an off-road surface even more slippery. ABS is seriously dangerous in these circumstances. You'll stop by hitting something.

I gather that you never have, and never will, try to accelerate uphill on a gravel road, on the flat on sand, or an off-road surface even more slippery. Traction control will prevent you moving.

Electronic intervention can be a fine thing, but it's not the be all and end all.

well, it is the internet, so I guess it is kind of an expectation someone will try and score points and be a bit superior, so go you. :headbang:

I believe the OP asked if we rate electronic aids, my answer indicated ABS and TC are no brainers, which is to say, yes, I rate them.

Incidentally, if I ride on gravel, I push a mode button which changes the ABS and ASC (as its called on my bike) to off road settings, so yes, I rate electronic aids.

Maybe, just maybe, one day I will become so good, I don't need them, until then I will take all the help I can get.

[Bonez]

well, it is the internet, so I guess it is kind of an expectation someone will try and score points and be a bit superior, so go you. :headbang:

I believe the OP asked if we rate electronic aids, my answer indicated ABS and TC are no brainers, which is to say, yes, I rate them.

Incidentally, if I ride on gravel, I push a mode button which changes the ABS and ASC (as its called on my bike) to off road settings, so yes, I rate electronic aids.

Maybe, just maybe, one day I will become so good, I don't need them, until then I will take all the help I can get.(Just kidding) ]If you need so many riding aids maybe it is not really for you. HD are developing a stabaliser to keep the bike upright when on the go ffs.

[Ulsterkiwi]

(Just kidding) ]If you need so many riding aids maybe it is not really for you. HD are developing a stabaliser to keep the bike upright when on the go ffs.

sounds good, sign me up:woohoo:

[Bonez]

Only thing is it is located in the Top box so less capacity with a higher c of g and they are ment to be engineers.:facepalm:

Extendable trainer wheels wold be a better solution.

[YellowDog]

I had an 08 Tiger 1050 with very few electronic gismos and I now have a 2018 Tiger 1050 Sport which is full of technology.

Initially TC, ABS, RBW & ASC were pretty annoying. They seemed to insulate me from what was going on. Simple 80Kph overtakes (on my old bike) were happenning at 120Kph. The good thing about the electronics is that you can disable the features individually at the push of a button until you get used to them (ride by wire couldn't be disabled - lol).

Even after two and a half years, I still disable TC, ASC, & ABS as and when required to suit my ride.

No question, the new technology is good. However I do worry that new riders will not ever get to learn 'Old Bastard' survival skills and tricks :facepalm:

[Laava]

What's ASC?

[2smokes]

I'm old school with old school bikes that you have to push your foot on this lever thing on the side to make them work and you have to mix oil with the fuel. I've had to learn to live with the gimmics as they have been introduced to the newer bikes I've owned. Stupid stuff like ABS, TC, Wheelie control, Quickshift, Autoblip and the list goes on. Now I sit here reading some of the comments thinking how my view has changed. (This is where I stand on my soapbox and cry "I was once like you") Give me a knarly road, a quickshifter and wheelie control and I'm in the happiest of happy places.

Does that make me a soft C?

[Bonez]

What's ASC?A Silly Cunt. Something you should be familiar with in your day to life.

[Bonez]

I'm old school with old school bikes that you have to push your foot on this lever thing on the side to make them work and you have to mix oil with the fuel. I've had to learn to live with the gimmics as they have been introduced to the newer bikes I've owned. Stupid stuff like ABS, TC, Wheelie control, Quickshift, Autoblip and the list goes on. Now I sit here reading some of the comments thinking how my view has changed. (This is where I stand on my soapbox and cry "I was once like you") Give me a knarly road, a quickshifter and wheelie control and I'm in the happiest of happy places.

Does that make me a soft C?Depends. Does the C stand for cock or cunt?

[YellowDog]

What's ASC?

Auto Stability Control (hate it) :drool:

[Laava]

Auto Stability Control (hate it) :drool:
What does it do?

[Ulsterkiwi]

What does it do?

its a different way to talk about Traction Control I believe.
If the sensor detects a loss of traction in the wheel, the power delivery is managed until traction is restored. Or something....

[YellowDog]

What does it do?

Like UlsterKiwi implies, it is an intelligent management system to balance ABS & traction controls to neutralise suicidal tendancies.

The BMW version allows you to take a fist full of front brake whilst at full lean. Instead of throwing you to the ground, on the opposite side of the road, it balances the madness with fancy electronics to keep you upright.

"It's motorcycling Jim, but just not as we know it!"

[Laava]

OK, sounds good. Have you ever noticed it cutting in? Or is it purely for those knife edge moments?

[Ulsterkiwi]

OK, sounds good. Have you ever noticed it cutting in? Or is it purely for those knife edge moments?

Depends on the bike, but on mine, the prevailing riding mode alters how likely it is to cut in. I ride mostly on the road and mostly in what BMW call Dynamic mode. Sharpest throttle response, stiffest suspension, least input from ASC and ABS.
When it kicks in you get a yellow triangle appear on the dash. I do not recall seeing it when riding. Mind you 2 things to bear in mind there, 1)I ride on the road, not the race track and I do not treat it as a race track, 2) when riding with some purpose, I am usually paying little attention to the dash, my vision tends to be focused a bit further up the road.
Honestly, I think you have to push the bike pretty close to the edge before ASC steps in. ABS is much easier to trigger, especially with the rear brake. I know the bike reasonably well at this point, so I have to be deliberately trying to get ABS going now.

[Racing Dave]

well, it is the internet, so I guess it is kind of an expectation someone will try and score points and be a bit superior, so go you.

No, merely pointing out that your blanket statement that ABS and TCS are a 'no brainer' is way too simplified. ALL riding should be a 'brainer' whether you have electronic intervention, or not. As you state further on, ABS cuts in on the back wheel of your bike very easily. Now try it on a gravel road... very, very easily. Without its intervention, stopping will be in a shorter distance and much safer.

[YellowDog]

OK, sounds good. Have you ever noticed it cutting in? Or is it purely for those knife edge moments?

You don't notice it with most road riding however if you really want to ride hard (like on a track) it seems to muffle the experience and that's why I turn it off. Prevents wheelies & stoppies too :crazy:

I've had the same experiences on Kwakas and Beemers too :crazy:

It's the future (unfortunately).

[george formby]

I'm not sure if this is relevant to the thread but when I watched it rider aids sprung to mind. Not sure if they can or where fully disabled on the Ducati, either.

Anyway, food for thought and quite entertaining.


https://youtu.be/q0O8Q0x38mI

[F5 Dave]

Like UlsterKiwi implies, it is an intelligent management system to balance ABS & traction controls to neutralise suicidal tendancies.

The BMW version allows you to take a fist full of front brake whilst at full lean. Instead of throwing you to the ground, on the opposite side of the road, it balances the madness with fancy electronics to keep you upright.

"It's motorcycling Jim, but just not as we know it!"

I could have done with that on my race bike when some turkey pulled out on the track. I had option of braking whilst leant right over or hitting him.
I should have hit him. But instinct couldn't avoid trying to avoid him.

[Laava]

You don't notice it with most road riding however if you really want to ride hard (like on a track) it seems to muffle the experience and that's why I turn it off. Prevents wheelies & stoppies too :crazy:

I've had the same experiences on Kwakas and Beemers too :crazy:

It's the future (unfortunately).
Not sure if my Multistrada has this or not? Like I said, I haven't read the manual very thoroughly. Like most manuals these days it is so full of warnings, warranty voiding actions and "thou shalt nots" that I gave up!
Definitely has TC as all the lights start flashing when you give it a handfull on the gravel! Which is kinda fun, let's be honest!

[Gremlin]

OK, sounds good. Have you ever noticed it cutting in? Or is it purely for those knife edge moments?
I've got a 2010 R1200GSA, more primitive than ulster's wethead. No riding modes, just ABS on or off, 3 stage traction control (on, limited, off). Rear brake on seal is relatively easy to trigger the ABS, pretty tricky on the front. On gravel, either is easy if you want to... Tractionn control on mine is pretty primitive, it's wheel speed differences, so if power sliding on gravel, rear spins too quickly. Take off too quick, front lifts, rear is spinning faster. On or limited simply alters the threshold of intervention.

On the KTM, traction control is linked to power mode in some ways (but you still have to adjust multiple settings in most cases). In off road it will allow wheel spin, but equally, its a softer throttle down low (so if you jerk it over a bump it doesn't snap), but let the revs climb and it will allow a lot sideways movement :shifty: In rain, same HP as off road, but as it would suggest, it doesn't allow any wheel spin, early intervention etc. ABS in off road will keep ABS on front, turn off on rear so you can lock and build up gravel in front of the wheel, or on steep/rough descents where you want it to lock, it can, rather than letting you rattle to the bottom.


Not sure if my Multistrada has this or not? Like I said, I haven't read the manual very thoroughly. Like most manuals these days it is so full of warnings, warranty voiding actions and "thou shalt nots" that I gave up!
Definitely has TC as all the lights start flashing when you give it a handfull on the gravel! Which is kinda fun, let's be honest!
I read the manual cover to cover for the Enduro >2016 as I was contemplating it but bought the KTM. You should probably have a degree by the time you've finished it, jaysus, 3 stage anything? noooo, we need at least 9 settings for ABS, independent of 9 stages of traction control. Seriously, what?

[F5 Dave]

See, what we need here is an AI app to read the manual and make all of those tiresome decisions for you. Linked to your credit details it can then choose and order your 6 monthly update.


. . . um. . I don't think I would have chosen a Keyway 125 single. :nono:Shut Up. I know what's best for you.

[Laava]

I've got a 2010 R1200GSA, more primitive than ulster's wethead. No riding modes, just ABS on or off, 3 stage traction control (on, limited, off). Rear brake on seal is relatively easy to trigger the ABS, pretty tricky on the front. On gravel, either is easy if you want to... Tractionn control on mine is pretty primitive, it's wheel speed differences, so if power sliding on gravel, rear spins too quickly. Take off too quick, front lifts, rear is spinning faster. On or limited simply alters the threshold of intervention.

On the KTM, traction control is linked to power mode in some ways (but you still have to adjust multiple settings in most cases). In off road it will allow wheel spin, but equally, its a softer throttle down low (so if you jerk it over a bump it doesn't snap), but let the revs climb and it will allow a lot sideways movement :shifty: In rain, same HP as off road, but as it would suggest, it doesn't allow any wheel spin, early intervention etc. ABS in off road will keep ABS on front, turn off on rear so you can lock and build up gravel in front of the wheel, or on steep/rough descents where you want it to lock, it can, rather than letting you rattle to the bottom.


I read the manual cover to cover for the Enduro >2016 as I was contemplating it but bought the KTM. You should probably have a degree by the time you've finished it, jaysus, 3 stage anything? noooo, we need at least 9 settings for ABS, independent of 9 stages of traction control. Seriously, what?

Yikes! Now, that is the bit that does not interest me, going into endless menus to adjust stuff. Then having to remember what it was cos you disconnected the battery and it reset to standard. I just hop on and ride it. The only time I adjust anything is the preload for when the wife hops on. 4 step adjust.


See, what we need here is an AI app to read the manual and make all of those tiresome decisions for you. Linked to your credit details it can then choose and order your 6 monthly update.


. . . um. . I don't think I would have chosen a Keyway 125 single. :nono:Shut Up. I know what's best for you.

Hahaha!....no wait!....are they doing that now? :blink:

[F5 Dave]

So the ultimate conclusion down this path is Autonomous motorbikes. I mean that makes no sense.

Or does it?

What if you lived in Auckland and had to ride for dreary hours to get to somewhere where you could turn off auto and go for your ride. Then when done flick back onto Auto and transport back while your visor inner is an immersive movie to keep you entertained.

Just be careful of what you are watching and don't forget where you are. Just imagine Aunt Betsie saying "ooh I saw you out on your motorbike yesterday. What were you doing? Because it looked like. . ":shutup:

[rastuscat]

adaptive cruise control would be nice when there is a lot of traffic.

I use that in my wife's late model Jeep Cherokee.

It always amuses me that it only does what I =should be able to do anyway i.e. adapt my following distance to the speed of the vehicle ahead.

I mean, isn't that a thing a driver should be able to do? I console myself with the view that I could do it myself, or let the car do it.

It makes us lazy. Or less fatigued. One of those.

[Ulsterkiwi]

Without its intervention, stopping will be in a shorter distance and much safer.

and that is not over simplification?

fine, you win

[Bonez]

So you have all this electronic wizardry on the m/c and have another electronic gizmo to turn all that stuff off that makes using m/cs dangerous in some quite ordinary riding situations? Sounds logical captain......

[Laava]

I use that in my wife's late model Jeep Cherokee.

It always amuses me that it only does what I =should be able to do anyway i.e. adapt my following distance to the speed of the vehicle ahead.

I mean, isn't that a thing a driver should be able to do? I console myself with the view that I could do it myself, or let the car do it.

It makes us lazy. Or less fatigued. One of those.
Yep, one of those. I drive kamo to mangonui a lot, a distance of 130km most of which I can comfortably just set the cruise control on my ute. It becomes very obvious if the person you are following also is using CC

[eldog]

It makes us lazy. Or less fatigued. One of those.

Complacent, the motorway is moving along, we accept that we see no reason for it to stop. So many things happening we are in a false sense of security and of our ability to react.

Its there for the split second someone brakes suddenly or cuts in front unexpectedly.

Also can take the stress out from following a driver who constantly speeds up and down.

It isn't perfect.

[FJRider]

So you have all this electronic wizardry on the m/c and have another electronic gizmo to turn all that stuff off that makes using m/cs dangerous in some quite ordinary riding situations? Sounds logical captain......

It's the riders choice that what can be turned off ... is turned off. Logical or not. That supercomputer holding the handlebars can make that call. And if things turn to shit ... it was their call and their responsibility for whatever happens after that. I just hope they're as good as they think they are.

The gizmo's wont stop you crossing the center line ... nor stop you exceeding posted speed limits (watch this space for THAT one). They let you overtake any time you want to ... regardless of weather or traffic volumes on the road ... or it's a really bad idea. They don't slow you down to the recommended posted speeds for corners. They don't even warn you when corners are coming up that people have died on in the past. Nor do they warn you of traffic approaching you that is on your side of the road (I think they're working on it though).

"Ordinary riding situations" still require a fair amount of rider input into what needs to happen, to get to where you're going without losing time/blood/body-parts ... or even your life. People seldom see issues that will kill them ... simply because they weren't looking for them.

The wizardry may not always save your life ... but the odds of it saving you money (and/or blood) is still pretty good.

Those "ordinary" riding situations may even seem boring at times ... but it's usually better than in a car. Well ... most days anyway.

There's plenty of electronic wizardry about ... and plenty it can't (and won't/can't) warn you about ... or help you with.



No doubt ... someone somewhere is working on it though.

[Gremlin]

I mean, isn't that a thing a driver should be able to do? I console myself with the view that I could do it myself, or let the car do it.
Bloody irritating following someone that can't keep a consistent speed in easy conditions.

[SaferRides]

Bloody irritating following someone that can't keep a consistent speed in easy conditions.
I've found it's one way to discourage tailgaters. After a couple of cycles of slowing down and speeding up, they usually drop back. Has to be done carefully of course.

[oldiebutagoody]

I'm not usually one for cut n paste links. However this seems very on topic for this thread.

I'd respect this fellow's opinions as I remember him scoring a ride on a Britten at Manfield a few years ago.

Usual proviso, everything on the internet requires care and not to be taken as gospel. The piece is informative of the direction of things anyways.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c058k3R5lVk

[Bonez]

I've found it's one way to discourage tailgaters. After a couple of cycles of slowing down and speeding up, they usually drop back. Has to be done carefully of course.That is what a rare light brake is for. 3-4 of quick taps without actually applying the brakes sees tail gaiters back off fairly smartly.

If you cant tell the speed a m/c is doing at certain revs in certain gears after having owned it a fairly reasonable amount of time then something is wrong with the rider.

[george formby]

That is what a rare light brake is for. 3-4 of quick taps without actually applying the brakes sees tail gaiters back off fairly smartly.

If you cant tell the speed a m/c is doing at certain revs in certain gears after having owned it a fairly reasonable amount of time then something is wrong with the rider.


I do like those brake lights that flash when the lever(s) is applied. Very eye catching.

[Bonez]

I do like those brake lights that flash when the lever(s) is applied. Very eye catching.Yip they are a good idea. Separates them from all the other static red lights out there among the traffic . Been tapping back breaks to warn off tail gaiters since I bought my first m/c in 1978. You can usually adjust the switch to actuate a bit earlier and well it makes sense.:innocent:

A riders is suppose to be scanning their rear view mirrors on a regular interval as part of to the riding process. If you fit useless skinny ones which are difficult to scan while you are riding your m/c then tough luck buddy. You are on your fucking own.

[george formby]

Yip they are a good idea. Separates them from all the other static red lights out there among the traffic . Been tapping back breaks to warn off tail gaiters since I bought my first m/c in 1978. You can usually adjust the switch to actuate a bit earlier and well it makes sense.:innocent:



Yeah, I try to give following traffic as much notice as possible, too.

Not when I have to chuck the anchors on in a hurry, though. An automatic flash in this case could be enough to stop being rear ended. Assuming following drivers are actually looking.

[Bonez]

Yeah, I try to give following traffic as much notice as possible, too.

Not when I have to chuck the anchors on in a hurry, though. An automatic flash in this case could be enough to stop being rear ended. Assuming following drivers are actually looking.Yeah. Had a close one just a while back. An empty HALL refrigerated truck heading to Opiki over Saddle Road decided to speed up, pass the 60kph speed limit, on a long two lane passing lane. Got close but I was watching what the truck was up to in time while keeping an eye on the car trying to pass the truck. Nice wee skiddy. The next clear double yellow line straight I came across just dropped a gear on ol Darky and pissed off well away from the truck. Did some back country roads behind Woodville and Dannivirke then spotted the same truck turning into the Opiki works drive way.

[R650R]

I've found it's one way to discourage tailgaters. After a couple of cycles of slowing down and speeding up, they usually drop back. Has to be done carefully of course.

Your assuming the person behind you is a civilised member of society.
Your screwed of their fatigued or some nutter on meth who mightbash you at next traffic stop etc.
There’s entire series of brake check gone wrong vids on YouTube.

So what happens when the person behind you slams on their brakes, gets hit from behind and shunted into innocent oncoming traffic. That’s gotta be awesome on your conscience.

I’ve been hit three times from behind, none of them were tail gating, they just plain weren’t paying attention.

The smart thing to do is pull over, let them go rather than endanger other motorists by dancing on brake pedal creating a tailback....

[FJRider]

Your assuming the person behind you is a civilised And INTELLIGENT member of society.


Fixed it for you.

I recall a few "Incidents" when cruise control started appearing in cars. Crashing because they couldn't turn it off.

To turn it off ... all you have to do is BRAKE.

How hard would that be to remember ... or do ... ?? :pinch:

[eldog]

none of them were tail gating, they just plain weren’t paying attention.

The smart thing to do is pull over, let them go

I am with you on this one.
you just don't know what sort of person they are or capable of. :woohoo:

[eldog]

Fixed it for you.

I recall a few "Incidents" when cruise control started appearing in cars. Crashing because they couldn't turn it off.

To turn it off ... all you have to do is BRAKE.

How hard would that be to remember ... or do ... ?? :pinch:

not that hard if your paying attention:Oops:

[FJRider]

A riders is suppose to be scanning their rear view mirrors on a regular interval as part of to the riding process. If you fit useless skinny ones which are difficult to scan while you are riding your m/c then tough luck buddy. You are on your fucking own.

A rider is suppose (sic) to be obeying the speed limits too ... those that choose to not obey one part of legislation themselves ... but demand obedience to parts of legislation from EVERYBODY else (when it suits) ... is a hypocrite .... and an (almost) complete and total tosser.

Just saying ... :msn-wink:

[FJRider]

not that hard if your paying attention:Oops:

Too easy.

Perhaps ... that's why there were issues.



And whats the worst that could happen ... ???



And what have you got to lose ... ???


But it wont happen to me because I am a GOOD driver.



Sounds like a Tui add ... ;)

[FJRider]

Yeah. Had a close one just a while back. An empty HALL refrigerated truck heading to Opiki over Saddle Road decided to speed up, pass the 60kph speed limit, on a long two lane passing lane. Got close but I was watching what the truck was up to in time while keeping an eye on the car trying to pass the truck. Nice wee skiddy. The next clear double yellow line straight I came across just dropped a gear on ol Darky and pissed off well away from the truck. Did some back country roads behind Woodville and Dannivirke then spotted the same truck turning into the Opiki works drive way.

What sort of car was it you were driving .. ???

;)

[SaferRides]

Your assuming the person behind you is a civilised member of society.
Your screwed of their fatigued or some nutter on meth who mightbash you at next traffic stop etc.
There’s entire series of brake check gone wrong vids on YouTube.

So what happens when the person behind you slams on their brakes, gets hit from behind and shunted into innocent oncoming traffic. That’s gotta be awesome on your conscience.

I’ve been hit three times from behind, none of them were tail gating, they just plain weren’t paying attention.

The smart thing to do is pull over, let them go rather than endanger other motorists by dancing on brake pedal creating a tailback....

I think you've replied to the wrong post. No mention of brake checks or even braking.

[IronPawz]

Is it just me or does the phrase "electronic rider aids" make you want to have a little titter. As if regular aids isn't bad enough.

[jim.cox]

The disease is spreading

Ducati to debut active cruise control on Multistrada V4 (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/123012548/ducati-to-debut-active-cruise-control-on-multistrada-v4)

do NOT want

[Laava]

I hear ya Jim, but the std cruise control I have on my Multistrada is the tits. Esp when on boring motorways or lengthy open roads like the napier-taupo rd. The active one may be just one step too close to autonomous for a lot of people...

[YellowDog]

The disease is spreading

Ducati to debut active cruise control on Multistrada V4 (https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/123012548/ducati-to-debut-active-cruise-control-on-multistrada-v4)

do NOT want

Cruise Control is a 'MUST HAVE' for long journeys. Saves the pins & needles discomfort and lets you get the blood back to where it needs to be :yes:

[release_the_bees]

It would have been bloody nice to have cruise control when I did the TT2000 this year. A quick shifter probably would have been nice too.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[rastuscat]

It would have been bloody nice to have cruise control when I did the TT2000 this year. A quick shifter probably would have been nice too.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

My RT has both. Don't use the quickshifter much as my changes are smoother. Can't see the need unless you are on a race track.

I wouldn't be without cruise control though. Folk who are most doubtful about it have never used it.

[jim.cox]

I wouldn't be without cruise control though. Folk who are most doubtful about it have never used it.

Have it in one of the cars - seldom use it, even across the Canterbury pains

[F5 Dave]

My RT has both. Don't use the quickshifter much as my changes are smoother. Can't see the need unless you are on a race track.

I wouldn't be without cruise control though. Folk who are most doubtful about it have never used it.

Jesus it must be crap. Quick shifters on more developed bikes make for much smoother changes. Especially when changing during corners where it doesn't unsettle the bike, just rewards with extended acceleration. My mates R1M is another evolution on from anything else I've ridden and is a joy to change.

[rastuscat]

Jesus it must be crap. Quick shifters on more developed bikes make for much smoother changes. Especially when changing during corners where it doesn't unsettle the bike, just rewards with extended acceleration. My mates R1M is another evolution on from anything else I've ridden and is a joy to change.

Yes, tech improves so quickly the R1M is likely streets ahead of my 2015 RT.

I use it going up the gears sometimes, but only rarely going down the gears. I have quite good vehicle sympathy, so my gear changing is quite slick.

As a rule I don't change gears under load in corners, so not so much of an issue.

[F5 Dave]

But clearly behind my comparitively budget 2011 675 STR.

On my 1978 MB100 racer (in RS125 chassis) i added a QC with aftermarket ignition. On Kart tracks you were always changing gear at lean angles only slicks bring and the QC was a serious advantage on a peaky 2 stroke as it didn't unload the platform when cm count.

[Beekeeper]

Jesus it must be crap. Quick shifters on more developed bikes make for much smoother changes. Especially when changing during corners where it doesn't unsettle the bike, just rewards with extended acceleration. My mates R1M is another evolution on from anything else I've ridden and is a joy to change.

Electronic aids are fantastic, quickshifters for example if you have never used a reasonably modern one you are missing out. Electronic engine braking, ABS, traction controls, wheelie controls, slide controls, slipper clutches etc are excellent safety features. ABS on the street is a no brainer but the other controls mostly come into their own when you're pushing. At normal touring or commuting speeds one would hope they would hardly kick in which should satisfy those who prefer raw unfiltered motorcycling. Most systems allow riders to turn settings right down or off so there is that option if you want to twist the 230hp wrist but if I were to purchase a new V4R electronics all the way to assist in controlling the beast.

Electronics are the new normal, just like we went from points to cdi, from servicing a bike every thousand miles to todays intervals, from cables to hydraulics and so on. They are there to help the motorcyclist and for those that recall the early shock horror at BMW's ABS on the K series the tech now is fully accepted and the best tech is that which you dont notice.

I have the full suite on my Ducati and while I have it adjusted to my liking with very minimal intrusion when I need to put it in rain mode for wet slick conditions, I really appreciate the safety margin it gives me. On the flip side electronics do not compensate for rider errors, I've highsided and lowsided both at low speed (on track and road) and both due to my own inability to read the surface ahead. So electronics wont save you but when I buy my next bike you can guarantee I will be picking a bike with the best rider aids that I can find as I will never go back to a bike without them.

[rastuscat]

I have the full suite on my Ducati and while I have it adjusted to my liking with very minimal intrusion when I need to put it in rain mode for wet slick conditions, I really appreciate the safety margin it gives me. .

Had that chat in the office the other day. MY team leader had his V Strom in for new tyres and the shop gave him a new Triumph Tiger for the day. 800 cc version.

Tech coming out of your ears in terms of things to adjust. Ride modes, suspension settings, yaddy yaddy yaddy. The RT has all that, and I found that once I had ths\e settings I wanted I got bored with playing with the setup, so just leave it on what I have settled on.

I hardly ever adjust anything these days, maybe Rain mod in the wet. But I generally don't ride in the rain, that's what trains are for.

So, I have a bike with lots of tech that I hardly ever touch. Perhaps that's the point, I have it set up for me, so I can just forget it all.

[pritch]

The RT has all that, and I found that once I had ths\e settings I wanted I got bored with playing with the setup, so just leave it on what I have settled on.

I hardly ever adjust anything these days,

'King' Kenny Roberts sorta summed that up when he said words to the effect, if you've got a thousand possible suspension settings there are 999 wrong ones.

[roogazza]

'King' Kenny Roberts sorta summed that up when he said words to the effect, if you've got a thousand possible suspension settings there are 999 wrong ones.

How very true from Kenny ! I prefer nothin but experience and what's in my head and throttle hand.....

If people learnt the basics, that is something hard to beat.

[YellowDog]

How very true from Kenny ! I prefer nothin but experience and what's in my head and throttle hand.....

If people learnt the basics, that is something hard to beat.

AND that's the whole point. Techno gismos will prvenet new riders from ever learning the basics. Instead of learning from a rookie error at 50Kph and surviving, physics will kick in at 80kph and they won't.

[rastuscat]

Before pneumatic tyres there were solid rubber ones. Are we really suggesting that older is better?

[YellowDog]

Before pneumatic tyres there were solid rubber ones. Are we really suggesting that older is better?

I'm suggesting that having electronic management systems that will allow you to take a fist full of front brake whilst on full lean is not going to teach you anything and when ignorance eventually surpasses what technology can do (e.g. The laws of physics cease to be neutralised); the accident is far less likely to be survivable.

For a new rider, front braking mid-bend and hitting the ground at 30kph is usually a valuable lesson learnt.

BTW: I love ABS. Has saved my bacon more than once.

[F5 Dave]

An afternoon on a dirtbike will teach you up real good.