Ten years tick tock the bell tolls for NZ petrol power

[R650R]

I always suspected this is why Labour was so eager to carry the greens when they don't need their votes.
The Green Party is going to ram this crap through and Jacinta will be able to wash her hands of it.
Totally fits in with agenda 2030 timeline...
Massive ramifications for the economy, so many flow on jobs will be toast...
I don't think they have any idea of how many commercial applications need the flexibility and energy density petrol and diesel power offers.
Sure battery technology is increasing but still major problems in battery weight vs storage and recharge times...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123387955/time-to-consider-petrol-and-diesel-car-import-ban-says-climate-change-minister

[Jeeper]

We'll be walking only anyway by then. The way NZTA is reducing speed limits, anything faster than walking pace would be considered dangerous soon.

Sent from my SM-N986B using Tapatalk

[Banditbandit]

I always suspected this is why Labour was so eager to carry the greens when they don't need their votes.
The Green Party is going to ram this crap through and Jacinta will be able to wash her hands of it.
Totally fits in with agenda 2030 timeline...
Massive ramifications for the economy, so many flow on jobs will be toast...
I don't think they have any idea of how many commercial applications need the flexibility and energy density petrol and diesel power offers.
Sure battery technology is increasing but still major problems in battery weight vs storage and recharge times...

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123387955/time-to-consider-petrol-and-diesel-car-import-ban-says-climate-change-minister

Jobs will be created in the new sectors ... remember the move from horse-drawn to internal combustion? No, of course you don't - so let me say that lots of jobs caring for horses, driving and riding horse, markets for hay etc to feed them, harness manufacturers - all went out the window - and new jobs were created around internal combustion engines .. it will happen again.

When the fossil fuel runs out those businesses relying on it will be toast anyway ..

[mashman]

Wish I could have found a pic with a wind turbine...

347728

[FJRider]

Jobs will be created in the new sectors ... remember the move from horse-drawn to internal combustion? No, of course you don't - so let me say that lots of jobs caring for horses, driving and riding horse, markets for hay etc to feed them, harness manufacturers - all went out the window - and new jobs were created around internal combustion engines .. it will happen again.


Horse drawn coaches had drivers. As do the bus's and trucks and cars that replaced the horse drawn vehicles.

With the introduction of internal combustion engines ... people had to man petrol stations and workshops/garages to repair and maintain them. In most cases ... the people that looked after the horses ... now (after some [usually very little] degree of up-skilling) looked after the motor vehicles. Farriers often became mechanics. Fuel had to be transported to the petrol stations throughout the country. Petrol could not be "Made" locally as hay could be. Vehicle parts distribution became a necessity ... and vehicle assembly workers became an actual occupation. The horse associated workers and suppliers never really went out of business. Even today ... a portion of local economies even today are based on horse related products.

With the introduction of internal combustion vehicles ... MORE jobs were created ... than lost.

Advice to many that are nowhere near retirement age yet ... start up-skilling to the new fuel systems ... or you might miss your chance.

[FJRider]

Wish I could have found a pic with a wind turbine...


https://i.imgur.com/3VZl4lw.gif

Liquid cooled ...

[mashman]

Advice to many that are nowhere near retirement age yet ... start up-skilling to the new fuel systems ... or you might miss your chance.

You mean, become an electrician?

[ellipsis]

...it will never happen...they are pissing in the green pockets...in a distant time, maybe...wankers...

...we will have had a fairly decent global event by then anyway...they have a way of re arranging plans...

[R650R]

Jobs will be created in the new sectors ... remember the move from horse-drawn to internal combustion? No, of course you don't - so let me say that lots of jobs caring for horses, driving and riding horse, markets for hay etc to feed them, harness manufacturers - all went out the window - and new jobs were created around internal combustion engines .. it will happen again.

When the fossil fuel runs out those businesses relying on it will be toast anyway ..

THat was during Industrial Age, now we are headed into totally automated systems. Electric cars will be sealed units unserviceable like a MacBook or iPhone.
(Before some tech geek responds I know you can replace some parts on them but you get idea)
Fossil fuel won’t run out it’s an abiotic process...
And the sacrilegious wind turbines need dinosaur oil as it’s the only thing barely good enough to lube the massive shear forces in their gearboxes.

[R650R]

Wish I could have found a pic with a wind turbine...

347728

Just google wind turbine on fire lots of pics lol

[FJRider]

You mean, become an electrician?

No silly ... A Barista ... :rolleyes:

[JimO]

i wonder if the guy who punched Shaw drives a Ranger

[R650R]

i wonder if the guy who punched Shaw drives a Ranger

One things for sure he drinks for free at every working mans bar :)

[MaxPenguin]

Internal combustion engines are not sustainable. Check out where the share market money is going, yes to sustainable products, environmentally friendly. Bring on agenda 2030 or just bury your head in the sand.

[ellipsis]

Internal combustion engines are not sustainable. Check out where the share market money is going, yes to sustainable products, environmentally friendly. Bring on agenda 2030 or just bury your head in the sand.

...hahahahahahahahahaa...

[Laava]

Is it maybe just an echo from this?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-54981425

[mashman]

Just google wind turbine on fire lots of pics lol

That'll create maintenance jobs that will. Can't have shit that's built for purpose and to last if it doesn't create jobs. That's just uneconomic.


No silly ... A Barista ... :rolleyes:

Ahhh, humans always need fuelin'

[Oakie]

Now slow down a minute boys and ... boys.

Seeing it has been mentioned, this is what Agenda 2030 actually says:

12.c Rationalize inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption by removing market distortions, in accordance with national circumstances, including by restructuring taxation and phasing out those harmful subsidies, where they and conditions of developing countries and minimizing the possible adverse impacts on their development in a manner that protects the poor and the affected communities.

Nothing to do getting rid of internal combustion vehicles.

[MaxPenguin]

Now slow down a minute boys and ... boys.

Seeing it has been mentioned, this is what Agenda 2030 actually says:

12.c Rationalize inefficient fossil fuel subsidies that encourage wasteful consumption by removing market distortions, in accordance with national circumstances, including by restructuring taxation and phasing out those harmful subsidies, where they and conditions of developing countries and minimizing the possible adverse impacts on their development in a manner that protects the poor and the affected communities.

Nothing to do getting rid of internal combustion vehicles.

Two points. Agenda 2030 is THE cool thing to mention if you are a conspiracy theorist like r650r. And face it, IC engi as are on their way out, you can keep yours if you like, but I don't know where you will be able to buy petrol.

[Oakie]

Two points. Agenda 2030 is THE cool thing to mention if you are a conspiracy theorist like r650r. Yeah, I noticed it popping up all over the place as the threat to everything, especially during the election campaign on Advance NZs facebook page. Thought I should at least read it so I found the original UN document online. It's obvious from what is in it that those who decry it as the end of society as we know it, have not actually read it. It's asprirational rather than threatening. Full of 'nice to haves' but I can't see a lot of it happening.


And face it, IC engi as are on their way out, you can keep yours if you like, but I don't know where you will be able to buy petrol. I'll be dead by the time IC engines go, not sure about my kids but I reckon the grandkids will have to be the ones that deal with the end of petrol.

[Oakie]

Oh, incidentally, these are the goals of Agenda 2030 which is all about sustainable development. Aspirational? Yes, Achievable? Probably not. The way for the UN or the dreaded 'New World Order' to take over the world? Nah. Probably an interesting thread to start but I can see it would be quite a shit fight. Link to the full document is at the bottom

Sustainable Development Goals

Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld

[MaxPenguin]

Oh, incidentally, these are the goals of Agenda 2030 which is all about sustainable development. Aspirational? Yes, Achievable? Probably not. The way for the UN or the dreaded 'New World Order' to take over the world? Nah. Probably an interesting thread to start but I can see it would be quite a shit fight. Link to the full document is at the bottom

Sustainable Development Goals

Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld

If you watch Sir David Attenboroughs latest doco he explains at the end what needs to be done to get the environment back on track and a lot of it is included in agenda 2030.

[FJRider]

... It's obvious from what is in it that those who decry it as the end of society as we know it, have not actually read it. It's asprirational rather than threatening. Full of 'nice to haves' but I can't see a lot of it happening.

If even partially implemented ... it WOULD be the end of society "As we know it".

But the basic principle of the whole agenda, reminds me of an old joke. How many Social Workers are needed to change a light bulb ?? Only one ... but the light bulb must WANT to change.

Each and every one of those goals are achievable. BUT ... not EVERYBODY that those goals would benefit ... would actually WANT it. And not everybody that could help implement it ... would want to help. Either because they like things as they are now ... it would require some (large) degree of effort on their part ... or they lose money. All simply because the self centered lifestyle they have ... they want to continue.

[R650R]

Oh, incidentally, these are the goals of Agenda 2030 which is all about sustainable development. Aspirational? Yes, Achievable? Probably not. The way for the UN or the dreaded 'New World Order' to take over the world? Nah. Probably an interesting thread to start but I can see it would be quite a shit fight. Link to the full document is at the bottom

Sustainable Development Goals

Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld

IÂ’m happy for the thread to morph into a discussion about this...
LetÂ’s eliminate one thing for a start though, Billy TK talked about it but was poor at explaining the issues. The Elite often set up someone like this to discredit a certain view.

But like any govt document you have to read between the lines to see what lies behind the rosey image portrayed. LetÂ’s just take a couple of the core terms.

Equality... were already seeing ramifications of that, hiring based on gender, race or age and not on skill.

Sustainable...there is nothing that is truely sustainable that doesnÂ’t harm biodiversity or any of the other sacred environmental factors.
When the elite talk about sustainable they mean in respect to them and there position. Massive population reduction is the only thing that gets close to doing this.
Sadly history has too many examples of their favourite way to do this and it doesnÂ’t end well for the average joes like all us on here.
The massive irony is the only way these things are achieved initially is with a massive totalitarian govt with many rules and inspectors, the opposite of efficient or sustainable.

Just look at covid lockdowns that made some business and life activity “sustainable” under the virus conditions... it took massive legislation and lifestyle changes to achieve quite a small goal of social distancing and increased hand washing.

[MaxPenguin]

IÂ’m happy for the thread to morph into a discussion about this...
LetÂ’s eliminate one thing for a start though, Billy TK talked about it but was poor at explaining the issues. The Elite often set up someone like this to discredit a certain view.

But like any govt document you have to read between the lines to see what lies behind the rosey image portrayed. LetÂ’s just take a couple of the core terms.

Equality... were already seeing ramifications of that, hiring based on gender, race or age and not on skill.

Sustainable...there is nothing that is truely sustainable that doesnÂ’t harm biodiversity or any of the other sacred environmental factors.
When the elite talk about sustainable they mean in respect to them and there position. Massive population reduction is the only thing that gets close to doing this.
Sadly history has too many examples of their favourite way to do this and it doesnÂ’t end well for the average joes like all us on here.
The massive irony is the only way these things are achieved initially is with a massive totalitarian govt with many rules and inspectors, the opposite of efficient or sustainable.

Just look at covid lockdowns that made some business and life activity “sustainable” under the virus conditions... it took massive legislation and lifestyle changes to achieve quite a small goal of social distancing and increased hand washing.

You lost me at the elite planting billytfukwit. :brick:

[MaxPenguin]

If even partially implemented ... it WOULD be the end of society "As we know it".

But the basic principle of the whole agenda, reminds me of an old joke. How many Social Workers are needed to change a light bulb ?? Only one ... but the light bulb must WANT to change.

Each and every one of those goals are achievable. BUT ... not EVERYBODY that those goals would benefit ... would actually WANT it. And not everybody that could help implement it ... would want to help. Either because they like things as they are now ... it would require some (large) degree of effort on their part ... or they lose money. All simply because the self centered lifestyle they have ... they want to continue.

You are right, we need to adapt. The qanon/conspiracy theorists refuse to adapt.

[RDJ]

If you watch Sir David Attenboroughs latest doco he explains at the end what needs to be done to get the environment back on track and a lot of it is included in agenda 2030.

Attenborough - yeah, he's the bloke that gets to fly First Class (plus his camera-crew plebs but back in Cattle Class, to 170+ countries and many millions of fuel-burning miles (for the 1998 series Life of Birds alone, he flew 256,000 miles). Should we listen to him lecture about fossil fuel-burning? Sod right off, Davey.

[mashman]

Oh, incidentally, these are the goals of Agenda 2030 which is all about sustainable development. Aspirational? Yes, Achievable? Probably not. The way for the UN or the dreaded 'New World Order' to take over the world? Nah. Probably an interesting thread to start but I can see it would be quite a shit fight. Link to the full document is at the bottom

Sustainable Development Goals

Goal 1. End poverty in all its forms everywhere
Goal 2. End hunger, achieve food security and improved nutrition and promote sustainable agriculture
Goal 3. Ensure healthy lives and promote well-being for all at all ages
Goal 4. Ensure inclusive and equitable quality education and promote lifelong learning opportunities for all
Goal 5. Achieve gender equality and empower all women and girls
Goal 6. Ensure availability and sustainable management of water and sanitation for all
Goal 7. Ensure access to affordable, reliable, sustainable and modern energy for all
Goal 8. Promote sustained, inclusive and sustainable economic growth, full and productive employment and decent work for all
Goal 9. Build resilient infrastructure, promote inclusive and sustainable industrialization and foster innovation
Goal 10. Reduce inequality within and among countries
Goal 11. Make cities and human settlements inclusive, safe, resilient and sustainable
Goal 12. Ensure sustainable consumption and production patterns
Goal 13. Take urgent action to combat climate change and its impacts*
Goal 14. Conserve and sustainably use the oceans, seas and marine resources for sustainable development
Goal 15. Protect, restore and promote sustainable use of terrestrial ecosystems, sustainably manage forests, combat desertification, and halt and reverse land degradation and halt biodiversity loss
Goal 16. Promote peaceful and inclusive societies for sustainable development, provide access to justice for all and build effective, accountable and inclusive institutions at all levels
Goal 17. Strengthen the means of implementation and revitalize the global partnership for sustainable development

https://sustainabledevelopment.un.org/post2015/transformingourworld


How do you reckon we did with regards to the Millenium Development Goals? (https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/home/sdgoverview/mdg_goals.html). The Agenda21/30 "conspiracy" is more than well founded. Just have look at how the U.S. etc... operate and how our word actually works.

For sustainability to take place, approximately 50% of current global production needs to cease. That conversation will be a fucking hoot.

[MaxPenguin]

How do you reckon we did with regards to the Millenium Development Goals? (https://www.undp.org/content/undp/en/home/sdgoverview/mdg_goals.html). The Agenda21/30 "conspiracy" is more than well founded. Just have look at how the U.S. etc... operate and how our word actually works.

For sustainability to take place, approximately 50% of current global production needs to cease. That conversation will be a fucking hoot.

We need to start somewhere, population is plateauing, attitudes are changing, I believe the ship is slowing down and starting to turn, hopefully we miss hitting the iceberg rather than the iceberg melting away and we just steam on over where it once was.

[MaxPenguin]

Attenborough - yeah, he's the bloke that gets to fly First Class (plus his camera-crew plebs but back in Cattle Class, to 170+ countries and many millions of fuel-burning miles (for the 1998 series Life of Birds alone, he flew 256,000 miles). Should we listen to him lecture about fossil fuel-burning? Sod right off, Davey.

So who would you listen to? Remember Sir David is just the narrator.

[R650R]

You lost me at the elite planting billytfukwit. :brick:

Im sorry you can't comprehend such a simple effective tactic being utilised. With the way the internet works they know what the masses are talking about, they know what people are worried about.
It's just like how the CIA funds a local puppet dictator that they know has a believable external exterior to not be over thrown by the local populace. And we all KNOW and accept that happens.
Iran, Iraq, Libya, Nicuragua, Venezuala etc....
You know a situation is going to develop so you put an agent in to control or discredit the topic.

In the lead up to 911 the original conspiracy radio guy big in America was bill cooper, ended up getting some federally mandated high speed lead poisoning.
Then all of a sudden Alex jones is big time and everyone knows now he's controlled....
Straight after 911 some young kid who "left the army" makes the slick 911 doco loose change which pushed the fake CGI aeroplane angle to immediately discredit entire 911 inside job angle.

[mashman]

We need to start somewhere, population is plateauing, attitudes are changing, I believe the ship is slowing down and starting to turn, hopefully we miss hitting the iceberg rather than the iceberg melting away and we just steam on over where it once was.

And according to all of our best intentions over the last 50 years we've tried and tried and tried and yet we're still not actually going in the right direction. The economics of degrowth are preventing it from happening. Sustainability and the associated efficiency that come with it is the death of the current economy, because mass unemployment is our future, be it through natural business drive to cut costs (automate), less resource becoming available, collapse of ecosystems, supposed hundred year weather events turning up when we don't want them, bigger earthquake and so on. Our future is collapse from all sorts of angles, yet all of those angles are clearly being ignored no matter how well evidenced they are as coming.

And that's outwith any form of "conspiracy theory" thrown into the mix... malthusian or otherwise.

We dodge it (through luck more than anything), by each of us understanding what is expected of each of us. In many cases that will mean no longer having a job to go to, on the basis that Non-Essential jobs are consuming Essential resources for Non-Essential purposes. Lunacy by any metric on a finite planet. End of story... unless you have an axe to grind with communism that is :killingme.......

[RDJ]

So who would you listen to? Remember Sir David is just the narrator.

The noun to describe someone who narrates what he does not believe to be true, is "liar."

Actually I doubt he's a liar - he's just a great big elite hypocrite who like all the other elite hypocrites think their edicts, lectures and homilies apply only to the rest of humanity not their sainted selves.

Consider also the Davos elite gathered at, well, Davos to have the poisoned dwarfess Thunberg lecture us peasants about stopping flying for holidays; yet more than 1700 plane journeys were cleared into Davos in 2019 for that meeting alone – a figure that does not “take into account public figures such as presidents and prime ministers.” There they scarf down US$43 hotdogs and listen to more hypocrites expand. E.g., Al Gore & rapper and producer Pharrell Williams* to promote ‘climate change’ awareness through a series of concerts called “Live Earth.”

* When he’s not fighting to decrease your motorcycle-riding footprint, Pharrell flies across the planet on his private jet, sailing the seas on fossil fuel-burning yachts, and driving around in his pollution pumping luxury cars. …Pharrell owns a Mercedes-Benz SLR, which gets about 12 miles to the gallon. He has a McLaren Roadster, which gets him about 13 miles per gallon. Pharrell also owns a Rolls Royce Phantom and a Porsche Spyder 550, which both get about 10 and 20 miles per gallon. Good for him they are his toys, but he can eff right off telling us we can't keep riding and driving ours.

In short, I'll believe it's a crisis when the people who tell me it's a crisis start acting like it is a crisis - including Ardern who should stay at home; she can give the Pacific Islands aid by Zoom video and keystroke rather than fly out there on a taxpayer-funded public jet.

[MaxPenguin]

The noun to describe someone who narrates what he does not believe to be true, is "liar."

Actually I doubt he's a liar - he's just a great big elite hypocrite who like all the other elite hypocrites think their edicts, lectures and homilies apply only to the rest of humanity not their sainted selves.

Consider also the Davos elite gathered at, well, Davos to have the poisoned dwarfess Thunberg lecture us peasants about stopping flying for holidays; yet more than 1700 plane journeys were cleared into Davos in 2019 for that meeting alone – a figure that does not “take into account public figures such as presidents and prime ministers.” There they scarf down US$43 hotdogs and listen to more hypocrites expand. E.g., Al Gore & rapper and producer Pharrell Williams* to promote ‘climate change’ awareness through a series of concerts called “Live Earth.”

* When he’s not fighting to decrease your motorcycle-riding footprint, Pharrell flies across the planet on his private jet, sailing the seas on fossil fuel-burning yachts, and driving around in his pollution pumping luxury cars. …Pharrell owns a Mercedes-Benz SLR, which gets about 12 miles to the gallon. He has a McLaren Roadster, which gets him about 13 miles per gallon. Pharrell also owns a Rolls Royce Phantom and a Porsche Spyder 550, which both get about 10 and 20 miles per gallon. Good for him they are his toys, but he can eff right off telling us we can't keep riding and driving ours.

In short, I'll believe it's a crisis when the people who tell me it's a crisis start acting like it is a crisis - including Ardern who should stay at home; she can give the Pacific Islands aid by Zoom video and keystroke rather than fly out there on a taxpayer-funded public jet.

Fair enough, but electric is coming, bikes too.

Funny aside my autocorrect turned "electric" into "election trick". Conspiracy???:facepalm:

[mashman]

Fair enough, but electric is coming, bikes too.

It is, and we will, if our history with current technology is anything to go by, waste the opportunity to make the tech work for all... especially when it needs to be sold to individuals in an unsustainable manner to fund business enough to fund the move towards collective sustainability :killingme... As such...


Funny aside my autocorrect turned "electric" into "election trick". Conspiracy???:facepalm:

that's probably pretty close to being Fact... depending on which prism of evidence you're willing to look through.

[Kickaha]

Oh, incidentally, these are the goals of Agenda 2030 which is all about sustainable development.

Hang on, back the horse and cart up, what happened to Agenda 21 have we abandoned that already ?

[R650R]

Hang on, back the horse and cart up, what happened to Agenda 21 have we abandoned that already ?

It’s the same thing but we’ve got Australia to thanks for slowing it up. They said F U to the world and kept up their coal mining cause it drives economy. That’s why the Elite set fire to half the country to try bring them inline.
The turning point was when in desperation they trotted out lil thugberg and people openly laughed at the rising sea levels that never happened.
Pretty sick mix a human trafficked autistic 16y/o as the poster for the future.
We shouldn’t have laughed though, carbon taxes would have been cheaper than all this covid drama they resorted to instead.

[MaxPenguin]

It’s the same thing but we’ve got Australia to thanks for slowing it up. They said F U to the world and kept up their coal mining cause it drives economy. That’s why the Elite set fire to half the country to try bring them inline.
The turning point was when in desperation they trotted out lil thugberg and people openly laughed at the rising sea levels that never happened.
Pretty sick mix a human trafficked autistic 16y/o as the poster for the future.
We shouldn’t have laughed though, carbon taxes would have been cheaper than all this covid drama they resorted to instead.

Either you need help or I don't get your humour....

[R650R]

It is, and we will, if our history with current technology is anything to go by, waste the opportunity to make the tech work for all... especially when it needs to be sold to individuals in an unsustainable manner to fund business enough to fund the move towards collective sustainability :killingme... As such...



that's probably pretty close to being Fact... depending on which prism of evidence you're willing to look through.

At least it will end child poverty. All the slave labour children of Africa will be taking in 2 cents a day in the cobalt mines for the batteries in GretaÂ’s livewire.
You have to laugh... pretty much EVERYWHERE in the world electrical infrastructure generation and distribution is at capacity.
But they want to stress that by recharging the national vehicle fleet every night.
Ever notice how thereÂ’s SFA cars on road when all blacks match on. Fuck itÂ’s going to be good when they all race home to watch the match, plug in their Konas, watch the stadium lights trip out and the live broadcast drop haha.
Then thereÂ’s the building of new factories, massively intensifying mining operations for heavy metals needed for batteries...

[R650R]

Either you need help or I don't get your humour....

Nah you should have just stayed in school bit longer 😂😂😂

[Kickaha]

Either you need help or I don't get your humour....

He needs help, pharmaceutical or psychiatric, you choose

[R650R]

He needs help, pharmaceutical or psychiatric, you choose

Hello gorgeous

[Kickaha]

Hello gorgeous

And obviously an Optometrist

[mashman]

At least it will end child poverty. All the slave labour children of Africa will be taking in 2 cents a day in the cobalt mines for the batteries in GretaÂ’s livewire.
You have to laugh... pretty much EVERYWHERE in the world electrical infrastructure generation and distribution is at capacity.
But they want to stress that by recharging the national vehicle fleet every night.
Ever notice how thereÂ’s SFA cars on road when all blacks match on. Fuck itÂ’s going to be good when they all race home to watch the match, plug in their Konas, watch the stadium lights trip out and the live broadcast drop haha.
Then thereÂ’s the building of new factories, massively intensifying mining operations for heavy metals needed for batteries...

lol@ending child poverty. What a fuckin' crock o shite. Yay, we've ended poverty because the average income in "Africa" is more than a $ level set that meets the KPI. Platitudes for the intellectually challenged.
Capacity can always be increased though, and it will coz it brings jobs and wealth to the economoney and keeps people from understanding just where the resources come from to achieve the amewican dream and the true cost. Until it doesn't, which as you say will be most amusing if the game is on. When there's no baseline, or indeed when the baseline has been completely ignored, likely greenwashed by the Davos architects and their way of stimulating the green economoney whilst carrying on with the setting of the direction we're going to end up being taken, then pretty much everything we do is a waste according to all logic, reason and common sense. Without question there's a happy medium to be found with regards to humans and technology, but again, the economics of today stop us from finding that medium coz it does mean producing less.
And a fooooookin' blah blah blah... coz every fucker has to ignore that sort of thing for their 'ism' and world view of choice to work. That's how ya end up Conservative positions that completely ignore trees and their wider role in, well, anything other than being a unit or two of potential currency.

[R650R]

I wonder too mashman if all the lefty activistists understand what equality really means in eyes of elite.
Activists think of equality as all of us on say $50hr but we know that doesn’t add up...
The Elite think of equality as all of us on 5cents a day
They all want sustainablity but forget on whose standard are we judging.

[mashman]

I wonder too mashman if all the lefty activistists understand what equality really means in eyes of elite.
Activists think of equality as all of us on say $50hr but we know that doesn’t add up...
The Elite think of equality as all of us on 5cents a day
They all want sustainablity but forget on whose standard are we judging.

Activists lol. Ok, I'm no great fan of the stereotype, primarily as "their" approach is to scream at the Elite machine to fix things from left and right and center. Hence the new green deals of the world we get suckered into. As you say, they all want sustainability, yet they all yield to the collective that is most popular and their standard of what sustainability can be. I had a couple of chats with the kids n adults at a School 4 Climate thing, and feck was it depressing to see how little these guys understand what's taking place with regards to resource usage and what drives it all. Same with the XR guys and the Green movements of the world. They take their economic cues for what is possible from their collective and stay well within those boundaries, and that's why they're limited to shouting at the Elite instead of working out how to get past them. Learning some economics would go a long way... but given some of my ventures around "greenville", general fucktardary still seems to be the biggest issue.

Who Am I to judge eh.

[TheDemonLord]

I'll bite...

I'm not opposed to Electric Cars per se. There's several things about an Electric Motor that I'm really interested in (Instant Torque throughout the Rev-Range, no gearbox necessarily required, independent motors for each hub etc. ).

However, the thing that halts me is that Battery Tech (although improving all the time) still cannot meet my criteria of:

Being able to drive from one end of the Country to another and only spend 5 minutes at a power stations? refuelling.

And also, my Petrol tank doesn't need to be replaced every 10 years due to me filling and re-filling it and even if it did, it wouldn't cost more more than the car to replace.

There's many applications where having an Electric powered vehicle (not necessarily a full-blown 'car') would be advantageous - something smaller and lighter, designed for a single occupant to commute to work for example, with a pricepoint cheaper than a full 'car'.

I don't like these big sweeping 'Agendas', regardless of how much or how little is implemented, since they invariably serve to be a salve to the sensitive conscious of it's architects.

[mashman]

:killingme... What's going on in the world.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE355Ze0wSQ

[george formby]

I'll bite...

I'm not opposed to Electric Cars per se. There's several things about an Electric Motor that I'm really interested in (Instant Torque throughout the Rev-Range, no gearbox necessarily required, independent motors for each hub etc. ).

However, the thing that halts me is that Battery Tech (although improving all the time) still cannot meet my criteria of:

Being able to drive from one end of the Country to another and only spend 5 minutes at a power stations? refuelling.

And also, my Petrol tank doesn't need to be replaced every 10 years due to me filling and re-filling it and even if it did, it wouldn't cost more more than the car to replace.

There's many applications where having an Electric powered vehicle (not necessarily a full-blown 'car') would be advantageous - something smaller and lighter, designed for a single occupant to commute to work for example, with a pricepoint cheaper than a full 'car'.

I don't like these big sweeping 'Agendas', regardless of how much or how little is implemented, since they invariably serve to be a salve to the sensitive conscious of it's architects.

I suspect crowing of sweeping agendas to electrify the vehicle fleet will change as the years pass. Undoubtedly EV sales for commercials and cars will increase as the technology (batteries / charging) improves. But overall sales will not increase so they will trickle into the market at the same rate as modern ICE vehicles, effectively just another option. My thoughts are that the change over to electric will be organic, driven by us consumers not politicians. If a faster take up is hoped for then we will have to have very good reasons to spend our dollars on electric, we are quite a long way from that.

[pritch]

Fair enough, but electric is coming, bikes too.


Coupla things about that cause slight concern. During a Formula E race I was watching on TV, a drver was told his car may be in an unsafe condition. He shoulld not step out of the car, he should climb on the bonnet and jump off. We can understand why he had to jump. Yer average peasant driving around in an electric car doesn't have an engineer to tell him about his vehcle's unsafe condition, and he probably wouldn't be able to climb onto the bonnet even if he did.

E Moto also raises a concern. The races for electric bikes have their own fire crew. Apparently the marshalls don't try and extinguish the fire at the scene, the fire crew load the burning bike on to a trailer and take it away. Where they take it and why, was not explained. Then there was the fire in which a large part of the Moto E field was damaged.

I don't want one in my shed yet.

[george formby]

Hot potato, hot potato. Batteries go flying from a crashed Tesla.

Dunno why the batteries are still so small.

https://uk.motor1.com/news/455558/stoned-driver-tesla-model-3-crash-oregon/

[R650R]

Agree 100% with your post Demon Lord.

This entertaining chap outlines what would really work for most people.... as a second vehicle


https://youtu.be/DTDHzgIypJs

[R650R]

Coupla things about that cause slight concern. During a Formula E race I was watching on TV, a drver was told his car may be in an unsafe condition. He shoulld not step out of the car, he should climb on the bonnet and jump off. We can understand why he had to jump. Yer average peasant driving around in an electric car doesn't have an engineer to tell him about his vehcle's unsafe condition, and he probably wouldn't be able to climb onto the bonnet even if he did.

E Moto also raises a concern. The races for electric bikes have their own fire crew. Apparently the marshalls don't try and extinguish the fire at the scene, the fire crew load the burning bike on to a trailer and take it away. Where they take it and why, was not explained. Then there was the fire in which a large part of the Moto E field was damaged.

I don't want one in my shed yet.

Just had a google not much info on it. Seems an initial EV fire can be dealt with by conventional means to suppress the fire. The problem arises where if part of the battery has been severely heated it can go into some kinda thermal runaway syndrome.
Expensive thermal camera and high volume water needed to take care of that.

[MaxPenguin]

Coupla things about that cause slight concern. During a Formula E race I was watching on TV, a drver was told his car may be in an unsafe condition. He shoulld not step out of the car, he should climb on the bonnet and jump off. We can understand why he had to jump. Yer average peasant driving around in an electric car doesn't have an engineer to tell him about his vehcle's unsafe condition, and he probably wouldn't be able to climb onto the bonnet even if he did.

E Moto also raises a concern. The races for electric bikes have their own fire crew. Apparently the marshalls don't try and extinguish the fire at the scene, the fire crew load the burning bike on to a trailer and take it away. Where they take it and why, was not explained. Then there was the fire in which a large part of the Moto E field was damaged.

I don't want one in my shed yet.

I reckon the market will decide, and a lot of that will depend on how the petrol price goes. Most likely up as demand falls and manufacturing costs increase.

[RDJ]

I reckon the market will decide, and a lot of that will depend on how the petrol price goes. Most likely up as demand falls and manufacturing costs increase.

Markets are both generally and specifically almost always more intelligent than politicians and bureaucrats. Not that that is Hard Tasking.

I don't have transcripts, but seems to me almost inevitable that Back in The Day, coachmen and postilions were complaining that them there newfangled automobiles would certainly crash and burst into Untreatable Flames and cause Fatal Injuries that horse-drawn carriages were simply not capable of, therefore, They should All be Banned, Banned D'ye Hear!!! Effing Forthwith.

If I could see the future, I'd buy winning Lotto Tickets every week. I cannot, therefore I rely on my salary; but I think it's a reasonably safe prediction that EV battery capacity will improve, EV-mining environmental damage will decrease, and EVs will become far more competitive in terms of Affordability, Range and Speed in relationship to internal combustion engines.

At the same time, I'm gonna keep riding my venerable V-Twins for as long as my acetabular inflammation permits. Thereafter, I'm pretty sure there won't be an EV-based trike w/good touring range available in the next 3-5 years, so I'll move over to an internal combustion version V-2 trike. That said again... I would certainly not bet against the ingenuity of the more sapient of my Homo Sapiens confreres being able to develop a battery-powered touring-range EV trike by 2030.

Meanwhile and consistently, I would like to scatologically invite all of The Best People (TM) who tell us we must now not be Riding and Flying - while they themselves Drive and Fly via currently-operative internal combustion engines - to Sod The Actual Feck Off.

[roogazza]

So its 2025 now ? Give us a hug Cindy has it all planned......

Can't see it myself , but I won't throwing money at new cars in case she taxes the shit out of them and petrol.

Thank christ we had the 70's . I'm so old now I don't give a shit really. :shifty: <_< :confused:

[george formby]

The practical, cost and environmental aspect of EV's gets a lot of air time, the fun factor less so.

As EV's become more established in manufacturers ranges "hot" ones will appear. Normal Tesla's smoke most other cars already.

Bikes need to wait for better batteries, at the moment the weight v range thing is terrible, as is heat dissipation.

Just about every review I read of bikes like Zero start with a startled giggle.

Mind you, Kawasaki have just teased a hybrid bike promo. That could be interesting.

Once we approach ICE / EV price parity without distance or fueling concerns and the Gummint start to ramp up the tax on fuel, most of us will be looking hard at the EV choices purely from a wallet perspective.

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/xhWUUblpDZA

[ellipsis]

...so my probably to be unfulfilled desire to have some older yankee iron is becoming more of a race than a wish...where do all those mad max types congregate these days?...I should go there I suppose...


...fer fuk sake , don't say Invercargill...

[R650R]

WhatÂ’s most disturbing is the idea to abolish coal fired boilers at hospitals.

So in a major disaster your local hospital is going to be one frosty hell hole death trap.
Yes I know they will have back up generators but they only last so long.

Even Stalin wouldnÂ’t decommission such a sensible source of high density stored energy.
This is the end folks... come 2025 we are going to be massively taxed on petrol powered vehicles.
The average joe is going to have to Uber everywhere wearing s gimp mask (public transport) as ow I g own vehicle even electric will be too expensive.
The price of electricity will have quadrupled by then.
We are adding NO real new capacity to the grid yet they think all these sparky cars are going to get recharged.
And fuck me how much juice is electric heating for hospitals going to draw alone!!!!Â’
Oh and those lovely smart meters will switch shit on and off in your house and DECIDE for you what devices get power based on your Chinese style social media credit score.
Oh you want to run your three phase welder at 12pm to fix your stock car for tommorow races, flick no days Jacinda her chariot needs recharging....
Our economy will be fucked, businesses with current freehold petrol powered gear will be forced to waste money going electric reducing their competiveness.
Transport costs will skyrocket. Many heavy trucks are double shifted, they arenÂ’t earning money sitting there plugged into a charger.
But itÂ’s not about the environment anyway, this is just another communist tool to begin the mass starvation for their population control goal.

[MaxPenguin]

WhatÂ’s most disturbing is the idea to abolish coal fired boilers at hospitals.

So in a major disaster your local hospital is going to be one frosty hell hole death trap.
Yes I know they will have back up generators but they only last so long.

Even Stalin wouldnÂ’t decommission such a sensible source of high density stored energy.
This is the end folks... come 2025 we are going to be massively taxed on petrol powered vehicles.
The average joe is going to have to Uber everywhere wearing s gimp mask (public transport) as ow I g own vehicle even electric will be too expensive.
The price of electricity will have quadrupled by then.
We are adding NO real new capacity to the grid yet they think all these sparky cars are going to get recharged.
And fuck me how much juice is electric heating for hospitals going to draw alone!!!!Â’
Oh and those lovely smart meters will switch shit on and off in your house and DECIDE for you what devices get power based on your Chinese style social media credit score.
Oh you want to run your three phase welder at 12pm to fix your stock car for tommorow races, flick no days Jacinda her chariot needs recharging....
Our economy will be fucked, businesses with current freehold petrol powered gear will be forced to waste money going electric reducing their competiveness.
Transport costs will skyrocket. Many heavy trucks are double shifted, they arenÂ’t earning money sitting there plugged into a charger.
But itÂ’s not about the environment anyway, this is just another communist tool to begin the mass starvation for their population control goal.

You forgot to mention chemtrails and 1080.

[george formby]

You forgot to mention chemtrails and 1080.

5g and the Kraken deserve a mention, too.

Bring on the future I say. The last few hundred years have been a helluva ride, yet, here we are, the most prolific we have ever been.

The way I read it, the conversion to low / non polluting vehicles is what is available new. Nobody is going to force us to scrap petrol vehicles at any point, they will just make it incrementally more expensive to use them.

Now is a good time to do some crystal ball gazing and take an investment stab at future energy generation projects and related industries.

[MaxPenguin]

5g and the Kraken deserve a mention, too.

Bring on the future I say. The last few hundred years have been a helluva ride, yet, here we are, the most prolific we have ever been.

The way I read it, the conversion to low / non polluting vehicles is what is available new. Nobody is going to force us to scrap petrol vehicles at any point, they will just make it incrementally more expensive to use them.

Now is a good time to do some crystal ball gazing and take an investment stab at future energy generation projects and related industries.

Yup already starting to buy shares in clean energy:banana:

[ellipsis]

Yup already starting to buy shares in clean energy:banana:

...I'd invest in shovels and wheelbarrows myself...they will be more a necessary item than anything else...even if it's to move all the bullshit that is being sold by , 'better for the welfare of the planet', merchants and shysters...utopia here we come...:woohoo:

[R650R]

Nobody is going to force us to scrap petrol vehicles at any point, they will just make it incrementally more expensive to use them.


Incrementally.., on whose timeline?
The entire govt fleet is going there by 2025, which means they are buying them now based on how long they take to action policy lol...
Come 2025 Jacinda will say it’s time for public to act.
A generation brainwashed will be entering university, instead of burning couches they will be rioting attacking petrol car owners.
We’ve seen what rising tobacco taxes did. Armed robberies of dairies have exploded, meth heads are robbing people in street for burner phones to call their dealers.
By 2030 we will see home invasions so some hoodie can get to
Local tinnie house as they don’t be able to siphon gas anymore...

The trouble is it won’t stop at engines. Next your gas bbq be gone, no backyard fire pits either....
You will be TOTALLY. reliant on the state who will decide how much angry pixies dance down your distribution board....
Oh you went solar and spent mega bucks on batteries well NZ needs that to heat its hospitals so Jacinda will suck that dry by morning by executive order...

[R650R]

Yup already starting to buy shares in clean energy:banana:

What clean energy is that?????

Please don’t tell me it’s wind or solar cause they as dirty as it gets....

[MaxPenguin]

What clean energy is that?????

Please don’t tell me it’s wind or solar cause they as dirty as it gets....

Hey, if you want to back a losing horse, be my guest.

[R650R]

Hey, if you want to back a losing horse, be my guest.

I knew you would be unable to answer that question, thanks for proving me right

[mashman]

I knew you would be unable to answer that question, thanks for proving me right

Human opinion v's Evidence. Human opinion requires less of a capacity for critical thinking than applying the Evidence, coz opinion doesn't look further than the crowd... and off the cliff they go. Green new deal :killingme...

[MaxPenguin]

I knew you would be unable to answer that question, thanks for proving me right

No point answering conspiracy theorists questions, it's a waste of time.

[george formby]

Incrementally.., on whose timeline?
The entire govt fleet is going there by 2025, which means they are buying them now based on how long they take to action policy lol...
Come 2025 Jacinda will say it’s time for public to act.
A generation brainwashed will be entering university, instead of burning couches they will be rioting attacking petrol car owners.
We’ve seen what rising tobacco taxes did. Armed robberies of dairies have exploded, meth heads are robbing people in street for burner phones to call their dealers.
By 2030 we will see home invasions so some hoodie can get to
Local tinnie house as they don’t be able to siphon gas anymore...

The trouble is it won’t stop at engines. Next your gas bbq be gone, no backyard fire pits either....
You will be TOTALLY. reliant on the state who will decide how much angry pixies dance down your distribution board....
Oh you went solar and spent mega bucks on batteries well NZ needs that to heat its hospitals so Jacinda will suck that dry by morning by executive order...

I suspect the timeline will be dictated by economics and consumers rather than unpopular political pressure.

The move to EV's and continued development of clean power production should not lead to anarchy, I'm optimistic about that.

Banning BBQ"s might, though.

[R650R]

No point answering conspiracy theorists questions, it's a waste of time.

It’s not a conspiracy, it’s a simple engineering fact. Any item manufactured to produce something has a footprint.
Have a google on neodenibium for the grunty magnets in wind turbines for starter...

[MaxPenguin]

I suspect the timeline will be dictated by economics and consumers rather than unpopular political pressure.

The move to EV's and continued development of clean power production should not lead to anarchy, I'm optimistic about that.

Banning BBQ"s might, though.

It's just transport, if something else powers it other than fossil fuels, it's not the end of the world.

[george formby]

It's just transport, if something else powers it other than fossil fuels, it's not the end of the world.

Yup, I'm looking forward to it.

[R650R]

And just wait till all those electric cars get plugged in


https://youtu.be/JYHX-Ib3Q5Q

[MaxPenguin]

And just wait till all those electric cars get plugged in


https://youtu.be/JYHX-Ib3Q5Q

Ffs, jo nova???? Probably thinks the lizard people are behind climate change.

[R650R]

Ffs, jo nova???? Probably thinks the lizard people are behind climate change.

Again you fail to bring any facts to debate

[R650R]

End of NEW motorcycle buying for average joe in NZ by 2027

Latest article has in depth info of how batshit crazy this regime is in destroying our petrol freedoms...

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/124079047/the-government-will-not-hold-back-jacinda-ardern-on-how-nz-could-go-zero-carbon

By 2027 HALF of all new cars and motorcycles sold must be electric, so supply and demand and all those that are buying will be paying some kind of tax premium.

Somehow the farmers are going to produce the same amount of meat and milk with 15% less livestock also ??????

Too much crazy shit to list read the article for yourselves....

[pete376403]

End of NEW motorcycle buying for average joe in NZ by 2027

Latest article has in depth info of how batshit crazy this regime is in destroying our petrol freedoms...

https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/124079047/the-government-will-not-hold-back-jacinda-ardern-on-how-nz-could-go-zero-carbon

By 2027 HALF of all new cars and motorcycles sold must be electric, so supply and demand and all those that are buying will be paying some kind of tax premium.

Somehow the farmers are going to produce the same amount of meat and milk with 15% less livestock also ??????

Too much crazy shit to list read the article for yourselves....

Its a DRAFT PLAN from the Climate Change commission, nothing about it is law and many of those items will be changed, watered down or omitted completely over time.

[Jeeper]

Its a DRAFT PLAN from the Climate Change commission, nothing about it is law and many of those items will be changed, watered down or omitted completely over time.Internal combustion engine has only been around 100ish years, it won't be the end of the world it goes away. However, making it go away without a viable alternative is asking for trouble. I would buy an electric car or motorcycle if the technology for batteries was at a level to replace convenience of petrol (I don't like diesel in non-commercial applications). Where's the infrastructure to support charging? Do we have enough generation capacity to support everyone plugging in their vehicles overnight? And run heatpumps and all other electrical devices.

[R650R]

Its a DRAFT PLAN from the Climate Change commission, nothing about it is law and many of those items will be changed, watered down or omitted completely over time.

I would like to think along the same lines and hope like hell it is watered down.
But the media had Jacinda walking on water in previous term with her minority govt having a “mandate” to govern and change.
Now she has a majority govt and signed a deal with the crackpot greens to boot.
So ANYTHING she wants to pass to please her global masters will happen.
With the nation on welfare in covid calamity times she will get a third term too.

[R650R]

Where's the infrastructure to support charging? Do we have enough generation capacity to support everyone plugging in their vehicles overnight? And run heatpumps and all other electrical devices.

Exactly.... but that’s why they bought in smart meters. They will control which of your devices is allowed power. Oh no your not mig welding your stock car chassis at 10pm, your neighbour needs to charge their Prius.
It’s funny how all the brownout stories seemed to have vanished from the media. I remember cold showers in 90s after rugby practice because supply was limited. Our population has nearly doubled since then but we haven’t really introduced new generation capacity....

[release_the_bees]

I hope the technology and infrastructure makes serious strides. Imagine trying to do the TT2000 on an electric bike.

Also, imagine the amount of infrastructure that they'll need on a holiday weekend to support the charging of electric vehicles. Even if they get the charging down to 30 minutes a vehicle, that's still at least six times slower than the time required to refill an ICE vehicle.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Jeeper]

The installed generating capacity of New Zealand (all sources) as of December 2017 was 9,237 megawatts, is that enough to support vehicle charging and population growth and keep Tiwai going?

[Jeeper]

I hope the technology and infrastructure makes serious strides. Imagine trying to do the TT2000 on an electric bike.

Also, imagine the amount of infrastructure that they'll need on a holiday weekend to support the charging of electric vehicles. Even if they get the charging down to 30 minutes a vehicle, that's still at least six times slower than the time required to refill an ICE vehicle.

Sent from my SM-G965F using TapatalkHybrid would be the way to go I think. Full EV is a long way away.

[Bonez]

Internal combustion engine has only been around 100ish years, it won't be the end of the world it goes away. However, making it go away without a viable alternative is asking for trouble. I would buy an electric car or motorcycle if the technology for batteries was at a level to replace convenience of petrol (I don't like diesel in non-commercial applications). Where's the infrastructure to support charging? Do we have enough generation capacity to support everyone plugging in their vehicles overnight? And run heatpumps and all other electrical devices.
Why? You can run the used cooking oil from your local fish n chip shop in theme.

[R650R]

The installed generating capacity of New Zealand (all sources) as of December 2017 was 9,237 megawatts, is that enough to support vehicle charging and population growth and keep Tiwai going?

The report says we have to shut Tiwai even tho govt just bailed them out with corporate welfare....

I didn’t the numbers awhile ago, hopefully got it wrong but the amount needed to recharge everyone’s cars isn’t as much as I thought. That’s was with some pretty crude numbers converting energy density of petrol to equivalent electric timescale vehichle fleet numbers.....

Maybe one of our resident “experts” in everything g will cut n paste some precise data....

[george formby]

I can only link Stuff.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300218775/government-takes-to-the-airwaves-promising-big-change-on-climate-policy

[R650R]

Sitting next to a road construction yard today got me thinking about the impacts for industry and contractors. The sheer cost of buy new electric powered capital equipment, setting up charging infrastructure. Recharging on third party sites instead of fuel truck turning up in night...
There’s so many aspects that make zero emission not practical.
Also as we get closer to the tipping point/end date, many suppliers and repairers and parts agents would bail out early.
Balance sheets would be ruined by worthlessness equipment that can’t be sold
Busin she’s would be foreclosed on By banks everywhere....
What business will invest in new gear when the future isn’t 100% certain.....

[Bonez]

The report says we have to shut Tiwai even tho govt just bailed them out with corporate welfare....

I didn’t the numbers awhile ago, hopefully got it wrong but the amount needed to recharge everyone’s cars isn’t as much as I thought. That’s was with some pretty crude numbers converting energy density of petrol to equivalent electric timescale vehichle fleet numbers.....

Maybe one of our resident “experts” in everything g will cut n paste some precise data....
In the future, it will be unable to cope with all those millennial mobility scooters.:rolleyes:

But we might be able to cross the Cook Straight on Seahorses by then though.

[Viking01]

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202102/1214561.shtml

[mashman]

Sitting next to a road construction yard today got me thinking about the impacts for industry and contractors. The sheer cost of buy new electric powered capital equipment, setting up charging infrastructure. Recharging on third party sites instead of fuel truck turning up in night...
There’s so many aspects that make zero emission not practical.
Also as we get closer to the tipping point/end date, many suppliers and repairers and parts agents would bail out early.
Balance sheets would be ruined by worthlessness equipment that can’t be sold
Busin she’s would be foreclosed on By banks everywhere....
What business will invest in new gear when the future isn’t 100% certain.....

What's going to replace the materials (oil, aluminium, various other man made compounds etc...) for the "plastics" that form a vehicle on and into the future? At the end of the day, all roads lead to mass unemployment at some point in the potentially near future. Be it a virus, business competing for market share (primarily using automation to replace staff), climate/environment issues, actual scarcity (coz Earth Overshoot), bad weather, big space rock using the Earth as a brake, twitchy bums and the fun n games of the market playaz, nuclear catastrophe (Fukishima still ain't under control after 10 years and all of our tech advancement... and granted, unmanaged nuclear catastrophe isn't really an unemployment thing.) and so on. All roads lead to mass unemployment.

We have no clue how to use anything we produce outwith making money. Everything is an accident. If we were smart, we'd start with clean air, water and food, but that'd have a bit of an impact on the economy and yet another road that leads to mass unemployment. Figuring out how to use stuff properly might, potentially, maybe, with any luck, and I do mean luck, we might just save our future arses. The tech has a place, just not the place we think it should have.

[R650R]

Good points mashman.... and add in all the other consumer oddities that waste raw materials....

The real elephant in the room though is where will all the tax come from.... EV is cheap at the moment as we have massive taxes on petrol.... plus the gst collected on associated servicing oil and parts and go fast goodies etc....
With EVs Bluetooth talkingbti each other and speed limited no fines revenue either...

And what will poverty stricken citizens do, tech won’t trickle down fast enough so they will all be walking??!! At least when they’re in their no reg no WOF people carriers there is a barrier of sorts between them and us in the Bronx.

I’ve always hated the emissions trading scheme but an expert on the wireless today was saying we could buy our way out of this for a mere $175million a year, in fact our current model is the best in the world.

[mashman]

Good points mashman.... and add in all the other consumer oddities that waste raw materials....

The real elephant in the room though is where will all the tax come from.... EV is cheap at the moment as we have massive taxes on petrol.... plus the gst collected on associated servicing oil and parts and go fast goodies etc....
With EVs Bluetooth talkingbti each other and speed limited no fines revenue either...

And what will poverty stricken citizens do, tech won’t trickle down fast enough so they will all be walking??!! At least when they’re in their no reg no WOF people carriers there is a barrier of sorts between them and us in the Bronx.

I’ve always hated the emissions trading scheme but an expert on the wireless today was saying we could buy our way out of this for a mere $175million a year, in fact our current model is the best in the world.

The problem with EV, another elephant in the room that few choose to acknowledge as an issue, is that we think we're going to produce our way out of problems that our growth growth growth jobs jobs jobs upgrade upgrade upgrade production solution has created. Given the way we're planning to use the tech, based on how we currently use it, more of the same = more of the same = same road just different toys massed produced until they can no longer be and the inevitable happens. Short term employment gains sure, but only while the investment is still under development and not implemented.

Tax is always going to be an issue were human beings rely on some form of income in order to be customers and efficiency means less $ moving around. The inevitable place for "tax" to come from will be via helicopter as the poor will be given money that must be spent into the economy. Print as much as ye like (MMT is sufficient) from there and grow grow grow.

ETS, and pretty much all economics for that matter, are the best we can do in terms of sorting shit out and they heavily rely on inefficiency and denial. Our futures are written in business accounts.

[Hoonicorn]

If Wellington City Council is anything like other councils:

removing street parking,
reducing speed to 30 and
making streets narrower for cars to install new lanes for cycles,


then there's Andrew Little on tv admitting that the housing crisis will mean no garages for kiwi builds because that's land that can be used for more housing... the future of cars is going to be for the wealthy only. I think that's why they hate motorbikes sooooo much, because they use as much fuel as a Prius (not to mention EV bikes), don't need the parking space of a car, and can easily share the road width with bicycles. Then there's this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM8Xli2KTzI

[pete376403]

There will still be a need for trade vehicles - can you see your average plumber or electrician getting all his gear onto a bicycle rack? Or they talk about making the cities more accessible for shoppers - how does all the stock get to the stores, and how does it get to the buyers house? Carry that new lounge suite home on the bus?

Plus I dislike the fact that the consultants and advisers to this project see no trouble with everyone buying electric cars (because on their inflated salaries there's no issue buying a $20 - 30,000 + EV, (assuming that they don't already have one as part of their salary package) while overlooking the minimum wage, two job people who need to get to their jobs in the city from their almost-affordable house in the cheaper suburbs, being hit with a penalty for using an older ICE car to "encourage" them to move up to EV.

[Jeeper]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/climate-change-report-gas-fueled-barbecues-and-commercial-kitchens-to-be-snuffed-out/YYQ4KMX3Q3EFALSD4XM35I45VU/

No more BBQ!

[george formby]

No more BBQ!

I'm a chef and this will prove to be virtually unworkable in coming decades.

The only alternative to gas is induction and they are horrifically expensive, so are suitable pans. Mega costs to change over, Martin Bosley' was understated if anything.

As for the BBQ. I haven't cooked on gas for years, went low and slow and never looked back. Weird they don't mention that charcoal or wood offsets are in the crosshairs.

Possibly a covert attempt to turn us all vegan.

Over my cold, dead, smoky brisket I say. To arms!

Summit else that makes me ponder about these proposed changes. What happens to all the vehicles, stoves etc that will be junked? Gonna be a lot of planes, trains and ships scrapped as well. Not for awhile, but.



Africa?:facepalm:

I guess the woodburner fire will be taxed to off set emissions.

I'm all for change but it will be a bit painful.

Is it worth investing in power companies?

[pritch]

Thought this was interesting.

https://www.wired.co.uk/article/lithium-batteries-environment-impact?fbclid=IwAR3J-duP34uyxw02M625Fep5T-S5fXq1mB93gIGldakBwagrJG6jVRVjH9U

[george formby]

Yup, the dirty underbelly of clean energy.

Cobalt is another chemical with dirty and inhumane mining practices.

Frying pan to fire when it comes to extraction.

[R650R]

Good to see a variety of great contributions to topic... now if you start joining the dots the bigger picture emerges....

A large part of the population canÂ’t afford the new technology... well letÂ’s just say youÂ’ll be in the workcamps with free accomodation earning your universal basic income to enable your purchasing e wallet to be valid

Vegan yes because then they control and own tbe food supply including seeds. Cattle sheep and chickens make it face too easy for basic peasant to live off the grid and produce excess food to trade with rebels.

All the perfectly good clunker technology well the commutes love destroying stuff so no worries there and will provide work for the camps

Welcome to equality where your equal with the slaves of Africa and China sifting through electronic wreckage for recyclables....

ThereÂ’s 7 billion people in the world, thereÂ’s no way of lifting one end of the distribution curve without making money worthless, however you can stamp on that curve with a big jack boot so everyone excel to few have nothing...

Great article on the mines there, check out the process of getting the stuff for those super magnets also. We will just be trading one pollution for another...

Covid “outbreak” and lockdowns have been stage one to see how the world gets by with less trade, less jobs and just how much tyranny will people withstand.

WhatÂ’s amazing though in this Pandemic environment is people are accepting of concept of moving from individual transport to using more mass public transport.

Perhaps our next mass extinction event will not be an asteroid but a Carrington type event where an EMP burst from sun destroys out totally electric dependant world....

[george formby]

Despite the current, heh, issues, I'm a tad more optimistic about the future.

[mashman]

A large part of the population canÂ’t afford the new technology... well letÂ’s just say youÂ’ll be in the workcamps with free accomodation earning your universal basic income to enable your purchasing e wallet to be valid


UBS. Universal Basic Services. It'll keep the dream alive a while longer.



Vegan yes because then they control and own tbe food supply including seeds. Cattle sheep and chickens make it face too easy for basic peasant to live off the grid and produce excess food to trade with rebels.


More likely The Matrix gruel: "a single celled protein combined with synthetic aminos, vitamins, and minerals. Everything the body needs."



Covid “outbreak” and lockdowns have been stage one to see how the world gets by with less trade, less jobs and just how much tyranny will people withstand.

In a perverse way better than actual collapse.



WhatÂ’s amazing though in this Pandemic environment is people are accepting of concept of moving from individual transport to using more mass public transport.


People don't have to go anywhere that really requires going any distance. A snapshit of a potential new normal that would see tradies from Welly not working in Kapiti while tradies in Kapiti head to Welly. Lunacy by any other name, but inefficient and better for the economy and therefore, shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone just how stupid that is on a finite planet :shifty:



Perhaps our next mass extinction event will not be an asteroid but a Carrington type event where an EMP burst from sun destroys out totally electric dependant world....


Our next mass extinction will be when any 1 of the 450+ active nuclear reactors dotted around the globe becomes completely unmanageable. Them radiators are hard to turn off when they don't want to. They melt robots n everyfink... Once all 450+ have popped, viruses in labs have found their way into the wild, oil slicking everywhere, uncontrolled oil/gas etc... well fires, as well as a few other outcomes man made marvels falling apart coz human beings are suddenly no longer the top of any chain, well, I kinda doubt there's going to be any life left at all to claim a UBI. But again, shhhhhhhh, some people don't handle these things very well.

[mashman]

Despite the current, heh, issues, I'm a tad more optimistic about the future.

#metoo... however we are going in the wrong direction somewhat, and have been for some time... but hey, ya just never know what's around the corner until the fascist cunts tell ya ;)

[R650R]

I’m optimistic too but like to keep people aware of their freedoms being eroded. History shows various regimes progressively take away freedoms, they never increase them except in very rare circumstances like current easings proposed for RMA.

Reactors are not the worry it’s the spent fuel pools that are the problem. Thanks to activists and environmentalists making transporting spent fuel to a better location it is instead stored in most dangerous way possible.
Just like at Fukishima American reactors have spent fuel pools onsite where fuel rods are continuously cooled in a pumped swimming pool type affair. Of course they have back up generators etc but any kind of major disaster disrupting infrastructure services and supplies for more than a few days would create a national if not world destroying catastrophe....
The worst thing about it all though is technology exists to completely exhaust uranium fuels to a safe zero radiation level but a reactor of that type doesn’t make weapons grade by products and you just can’t have nation states having access to a safe endless supply of power....

[mashman]

I’m optimistic too but like to keep people aware of their freedoms being eroded. History shows various regimes progressively take away freedoms, they never increase them except in very rare circumstances like current easings proposed for RMA.

Reactors are not the worry it’s the spent fuel pools that are the problem. Thanks to activists and environmentalists making transporting spent fuel to a better location it is instead stored in most dangerous way possible.
Just like at Fukishima American reactors have spent fuel pools onsite where fuel rods are continuously cooled in a pumped swimming pool type affair. Of course they have back up generators etc but any kind of major disaster disrupting infrastructure services and supplies for more than a few days would create a national if not world destroying catastrophe....
The worst thing about it all though is technology exists to completely exhaust uranium fuels to a safe zero radiation level but a reactor of that type doesn’t make weapons grade by products and you just can’t have nation states having access to a safe endless supply of power....

It's for our own good apparantly... plus we are #payingandvotingforittoo. What's the point of freedom if you ain't alive to enjoy it :).

If reactors weren't a worry, Fukushima wouldn't still be the problem that it is 10 years later. Last I read they had thousands of tanks of partially treated water that they want to release into the ocean and every robot that has been sent in to find the fuel has melted and so the fuel location still remains a mystery. So man v's something man thought would never happen still rages. What if they never find it? How many generations are going to be making plastic tanks to keep the hide n seek champ of the world from fucking things up even further? If active nuclear reactors aren't a worry, then why bother going to all of the trouble to manage Fukushima. Could it be because they're pretty dangerous when they reach a state where they are unmanageable?

You mention backup generators. They don't fuel themselves. Were man falls apart, so it is highly likely that man could persist in some form or another. However, the supply chains that keep nuclear reactors going must remain constant. For instance, there are a handful of teams that are trained to maintain nuclear reactors. Reactors require reletively infrequent maintenance so there needn't be a team per reactor or indeed site, but you still need these guys to be able to move arond the globe and stay alive for us to dodge that bullet (as well as future fixit guys educated to requirement)... and were the economy is failing from any number of places, so the likelihood of a reactor going pop rises.

Yeah I read of a reactor that runs by depleting "spent" fuel rods in Russia somewhere. Cool stuff, but an awful excuse to keep producing more reactors (and by default war materials). Reactors are a tad more dangerous than people give them credit for, coz the numbers of ways of upsetting them grows every sngle day ;). Gooooooooooooooo hoomans.

[R650R]

I hear you Mashman, just meant that reactor is something that can be shutdown if needed, where as a spent fuel pool is an inescapable problem in times of societal breakdown or infrastructure failure...

Cut n paste originally from Jim Stone

“Americans have been told their nuclear waste must go somewhere. Americans have been told their spent reactor fuel needs to be stored inside a mountain in the desert, where it will sit as a threat and menace to the World for millions of years. Americans have been told there is nothing they can do about it. But what if they have been told a lie? What if that “spent fuel” was not spent at all? What if a technology existed which allowed the same fuel to be used over and over, twenty times in fact, and expended so fully that fuel rods would be safe enough to handle directly out of the reactor? Think any “spent fuel pools” would be full? And even if this technology never existed,

What if foreign nations, (France was one) offered to buy this fuel from America for billions of dollars only to have the American Government refuse the offer for no reason at all? Certainly allowing France to have it would solve the problem of getting rid of it. And the final question, WHY would the American Government want so much nuclear material sitting around the country – enough to make countless atomic bombs – only to have it become a threat to America’s National Security? Could it be that for many years America has not had a legitimate government, and instead has had a band of invaders in power who have intentionally set America up for a fall? After reading this report, I believe you will be inclined to think so.

This report consists of hard scientific fact and even harder answers.

During my journey of discovery in my investigation into the Fukushima disaster, I interviewed an 85 year old nuclear engineer who worked in the nuclear industry during America’s glory days, an engineer who earned General Electric over 100 patents. He was one of the engineers who designed Fukushima, so naturally when conducting an investigation into such a disaster any journalist would want that type of reference. He was surprised when my prior study of reactor systems was so thorough that he had no information about Fukushima I did not already dig up, and he was very surprised when I told him details about the inner workings of his own reactor design he never expected anyone in the Media to know.

When I started to think I was going to walk away with nothing new, he began to talk about an entirely different subject. He began his new direction in the discussion with the phrase “My team succeeded in closing the nuclear loop, and Jimmy Carter banned our miracle with an executive order.”

Here is what followed that introductory line, and an enormous reason why Americans need to seriously question the current government structure and possibly start over.

“I started in the American nuclear program all the way back at the time of the Manhattan project, and have been involved in reactor design and nuclear engineering my whole life. There was one answer we all searched for, and it was how to close the nuclear loop.

When a reactor such as a boiling water reactor uses fuel, the waste products, which are highly radioactive isotopes that have a different fission characteristic than the original fuel, build up in the fuel and change the nature of the nuclear reaction. A reactor such as a boiling water reactor can only use the fuel until it gets contaminated by these isotopes enough to change the nature of the nuclear reactions taking place. The reaction environment inside a boiling water reactor is only one such environment which will work to trigger a chain reaction, and if that spent fuel is put into a reactor made from different materials, those materials can favor the burning of the isotopes which interfere with the chain reactions in the boiling water reactor and use these interfering isotopes as fuel until they are consumed. After this process, which restores the fuel to it’s original state is complete, the fuel can go back into the boiling water reactor and used as new with no reprocessing – the exact same rods can be exchanged between reactors.

We perfected the second reactor design which used liquid sodium as a coolant and the reactor ran much hotter – 1,100 farenheit as opposed to 550 in a boiling water reactor. The liquid sodium circulated inside the reactor instead of water, with the heat of the reaction being removed from the system by a heat exchanger which produced steam outside the reactor for use in producing electricity. The temperature difference and coolant characteristics in the complimentary reactor facilitated the burning of the isotopes, and you got to use both sides of the reaction – the boiling water reactor produced electricity while producing unwanted isotopes, and the sodium cooled reactor produced electricity while burning the unwanted isotopes out. This process could be repeated 20 times, and when it was finished the fuel was DEAD and no longer hazardous because all of it’s radiological potential was used up. It was a clean energy dream come true, and Carter banned it by executive order!

He specifically stated that the burn down was so complete that the spent fuel was safe to handle directly with bare hands, and needed no special care or maintenance at all, and after I questioned him about exactly how safe, said you could safely sleep on it. I questioned him several times, saying he must be exaggerating, but he said ALL radiological potential was used, and the fuel was completely inert at the end of the final cycle.

Many people know about the liquid sodium breeder reactor developed by GE in the late 1970‘s but few people know the real story about this reactor, which this engineer developed. To back stab the public image of this reactor, it was stated that it’s rods would stick and that liquid sodium was too dangerous to use as a coolant. But this engineer, the man who developed it, stated that this Media campaign was a pure psy op which like many things the Media and government says had no truth to it at all.

He then went on to lament about what a waste of money it was to have the technology banned because nuclear fuel is expensive and they were only able to use it to about five percent of its total potential without implementing this technology. He lamented the fact that his life’s greatest accomplishment got banned for no good reason, and it was a tremendous waste of money to not use the technology his team developed. Electricity would have been cheap. So cheap that homes would not have been heated with oil or natural gas, electricity would have been the only sensible choice. Furthermore, with a reduction in the price of electricity by at least 10 X, electric cars would have quickly become a standard.

This would have been America’s free energy future, with the only real cost being maintenance of infrastructure.

He was sad that we were now paying too much for electricity. I guess that’s how an engineer thinks. He had read my article about Fukushima and liked it, so it is an easy guess that his eyes were open to the global conspiracy. But I think he missed the obvious in what he said.

Here is what I think about this technology being banned, and it has nothing to do with preservation of resources or free energy.

Nuclear reactors are huge. They have an enormous amount of nuclear material in them. One boiling water reactor core the size of the ones at Fukushima, which have a thermal potential of three gigawatts and an electrical generating capacity of one gigawatt can easily hold enough fissionable material to make many atomic bombs. And with the technology that makes re using that fuel illegal, it builds up in the cooling pools at a rate of 25 tons per electrical gigawatt YEAR. This means that after 40 years of fuel buildup even small 500 megawatt facilities have approximately a million pounds of highly radioactive fuel sitting in their pools waiting for the right combination of problems to cause a disaster.

Because the Japanese were at least allowed by their government to use a reprocessing technology inferior to what this engineer spoke of, Fukushima only had approximately 250, 000 pounds of “spent” fuel at each reactor site, which remained intact throughout the disaster. But because in America no reprocessing is allowed at all in any form, the Fukushima equivalents in America, such as TVA operated Browns Ferry and NSP operated Prairie Island have no fewer than two million pounds of “spent” fuel at each reactor site, which means that Browns Ferry alone could, in a worst case scenario, far exceed the damage done by Fukushima.

Contrary to what the scamming Main Stream press has reported, Fukushima Reactor 3 was destroyed entirely while at 3, 000 PSI (far beyond specifications) which resulted in a complete core expulsion. This threw approximately 100,000 pounds of fuel into the environment, much of it in the form of brown dust that badly contaminated the entire surrounding area and was found around the World. At 100,000 pounds of expelled material, Reactor 3 could have produced at most two percent of the total contamination possible from a large American nuclear facility. This puts the possible disaster from Browns Ferry at 50 to 100 times worse than Fukushima. Multiply that by Prairie Island and the over 100 other similar sized nuclear facilities in America and it is not hard to calculate that a serious national security threat exists.

When GE and others designed the nuclear facilities both in America and abroad, they had calculated that they would indeed succeed in closing the nuclear loop. So they designed the nuclear facilities with an approximate 20 X safety margin in the fuel pools, because they did not have a clear date on when the technology would be perfected. It was my impression from this engineer that they got it sooner than expected. So fortunately the fuel pools were over built, but despite being over built they were never designed to withstand the fuel burdens that would result from a political decision to destroy the closed loop fuel cycle technology altogether.

So now, 40 years after the ban, America has fuel pools around the country that are so full that they have exceeded even the extremely generous safety margins they were originally designed to have, and even modest pools often have over 400 tons of highly active isotope ridden “spent” fuel in them.

Having functional fuel pool cooling systems was never intended to be necessary. GE and others wanted only a fractional core worth of fuel sitting in a pool at any one time, with at most one or two entire cores, not 15 or 20. If all cooling systems failed with only the intended maximum of one or two cores sitting in a pool there would be no boiling of the water in the pool, no pending disaster possible from equipment failure no matter how severe. But the way it is now, if there is any sort of attack or disaster which prevents fuel pool maintenance at any of the facilities in America for a period exceeding three days, the water will boil off, the fuel will catch fire and a nuclear disaster of unimaginable magnitude far in excess of Fukushima will take place. And it never needed to be this way, in fact, the situation is criminal.

Foreign nations offered help, but the American government said NO

Upon recognizing the lunacy of America’s Federally mandated nuclear sabotage, countries like France and Germany stepped offered to buy America’s 5% spent fuel for billions of dollars. They were not held political hostage by a hostile government, and could certainly use a source of cheap fuel. But rather than accept this offer, the American government mandated NO transport of the fuel to foreign nations, no further use whatsoever. American nuclear facilities were forced by Federal regulation to use approximately five percent of the fuel’s radiological potential, leaving 95 percent of the radiological hazard remaining, and subsequently forced to keep it in a fuel pool that needs continuous maintenance. While arguing against this report, shills have said it was the import and export restrictions which caused such a dangerous situation in America, but since those laws were written by the same government that banned the closing of the “nuclear loop“, the export restrictions are only a further indictment of the FED for causing this problem.

Simultaneous with the intentional building of the threat from having so much nuclear material sitting around came all the government scandals and lies about needing to put the fuel somewhere. Inside a mountain in the desert. Inside a dry cask. Maybe in the ocean, all the while the general American public was kept oblivious to the obvious answer: if we are not allowed to use it because of a nonsensical piece of legislation, why not let some one else have it, when they are willing to even pay for it?”

[mashman]

I hear you Mashman, just meant that reactor is something that can be shutdown if needed, where as a spent fuel pool is an inescapable problem in times of societal breakdown or infrastructure failure...

Cut n paste originally from Jim Stone

“Americans have been told their nuclear waste must go somewhere. Americans have been told their spent reactor fuel needs to be stored inside a mountain in the desert, where it will sit as a threat and menace to the World for millions of years. Americans have been told there is nothing they can do about it. But what if they have been told a lie? What if that “spent fuel” was not spent at all? What if a technology existed which allowed the same fuel to be used over and over, twenty times in fact, and expended so fully that fuel rods would be safe enough to handle directly out of the reactor? Think any “spent fuel pools” would be full? And even if this technology never existed,

What if foreign nations, (France was one) offered to buy this fuel from America for billions of dollars only to have the American Government refuse the offer for no reason at all? Certainly allowing France to have it would solve the problem of getting rid of it. And the final question, WHY would the American Government want so much nuclear material sitting around the country – enough to make countless atomic bombs – only to have it become a threat to America’s National Security? Could it be that for many years America has not had a legitimate government, and instead has had a band of invaders in power who have intentionally set America up for a fall? After reading this report, I believe you will be inclined to think so.

This report consists of hard scientific fact and even harder answers.

During my journey of discovery in my investigation into the Fukushima disaster, I interviewed an 85 year old nuclear engineer who worked in the nuclear industry during America’s glory days, an engineer who earned General Electric over 100 patents. He was one of the engineers who designed Fukushima, so naturally when conducting an investigation into such a disaster any journalist would want that type of reference. He was surprised when my prior study of reactor systems was so thorough that he had no information about Fukushima I did not already dig up, and he was very surprised when I told him details about the inner workings of his own reactor design he never expected anyone in the Media to know.

When I started to think I was going to walk away with nothing new, he began to talk about an entirely different subject. He began his new direction in the discussion with the phrase “My team succeeded in closing the nuclear loop, and Jimmy Carter banned our miracle with an executive order.”

Here is what followed that introductory line, and an enormous reason why Americans need to seriously question the current government structure and possibly start over.

“I started in the American nuclear program all the way back at the time of the Manhattan project, and have been involved in reactor design and nuclear engineering my whole life. There was one answer we all searched for, and it was how to close the nuclear loop.

When a reactor such as a boiling water reactor uses fuel, the waste products, which are highly radioactive isotopes that have a different fission characteristic than the original fuel, build up in the fuel and change the nature of the nuclear reaction. A reactor such as a boiling water reactor can only use the fuel until it gets contaminated by these isotopes enough to change the nature of the nuclear reactions taking place. The reaction environment inside a boiling water reactor is only one such environment which will work to trigger a chain reaction, and if that spent fuel is put into a reactor made from different materials, those materials can favor the burning of the isotopes which interfere with the chain reactions in the boiling water reactor and use these interfering isotopes as fuel until they are consumed. After this process, which restores the fuel to it’s original state is complete, the fuel can go back into the boiling water reactor and used as new with no reprocessing – the exact same rods can be exchanged between reactors.

We perfected the second reactor design which used liquid sodium as a coolant and the reactor ran much hotter – 1,100 farenheit as opposed to 550 in a boiling water reactor. The liquid sodium circulated inside the reactor instead of water, with the heat of the reaction being removed from the system by a heat exchanger which produced steam outside the reactor for use in producing electricity. The temperature difference and coolant characteristics in the complimentary reactor facilitated the burning of the isotopes, and you got to use both sides of the reaction – the boiling water reactor produced electricity while producing unwanted isotopes, and the sodium cooled reactor produced electricity while burning the unwanted isotopes out. This process could be repeated 20 times, and when it was finished the fuel was DEAD and no longer hazardous because all of it’s radiological potential was used up. It was a clean energy dream come true, and Carter banned it by executive order!

He specifically stated that the burn down was so complete that the spent fuel was safe to handle directly with bare hands, and needed no special care or maintenance at all, and after I questioned him about exactly how safe, said you could safely sleep on it. I questioned him several times, saying he must be exaggerating, but he said ALL radiological potential was used, and the fuel was completely inert at the end of the final cycle.

Many people know about the liquid sodium breeder reactor developed by GE in the late 1970‘s but few people know the real story about this reactor, which this engineer developed. To back stab the public image of this reactor, it was stated that it’s rods would stick and that liquid sodium was too dangerous to use as a coolant. But this engineer, the man who developed it, stated that this Media campaign was a pure psy op which like many things the Media and government says had no truth to it at all.

He then went on to lament about what a waste of money it was to have the technology banned because nuclear fuel is expensive and they were only able to use it to about five percent of its total potential without implementing this technology. He lamented the fact that his life’s greatest accomplishment got banned for no good reason, and it was a tremendous waste of money to not use the technology his team developed. Electricity would have been cheap. So cheap that homes would not have been heated with oil or natural gas, electricity would have been the only sensible choice. Furthermore, with a reduction in the price of electricity by at least 10 X, electric cars would have quickly become a standard.

This would have been America’s free energy future, with the only real cost being maintenance of infrastructure.

He was sad that we were now paying too much for electricity. I guess that’s how an engineer thinks. He had read my article about Fukushima and liked it, so it is an easy guess that his eyes were open to the global conspiracy. But I think he missed the obvious in what he said.

Here is what I think about this technology being banned, and it has nothing to do with preservation of resources or free energy.

Nuclear reactors are huge. They have an enormous amount of nuclear material in them. One boiling water reactor core the size of the ones at Fukushima, which have a thermal potential of three gigawatts and an electrical generating capacity of one gigawatt can easily hold enough fissionable material to make many atomic bombs. And with the technology that makes re using that fuel illegal, it builds up in the cooling pools at a rate of 25 tons per electrical gigawatt YEAR. This means that after 40 years of fuel buildup even small 500 megawatt facilities have approximately a million pounds of highly radioactive fuel sitting in their pools waiting for the right combination of problems to cause a disaster.

Because the Japanese were at least allowed by their government to use a reprocessing technology inferior to what this engineer spoke of, Fukushima only had approximately 250, 000 pounds of “spent” fuel at each reactor site, which remained intact throughout the disaster. But because in America no reprocessing is allowed at all in any form, the Fukushima equivalents in America, such as TVA operated Browns Ferry and NSP operated Prairie Island have no fewer than two million pounds of “spent” fuel at each reactor site, which means that Browns Ferry alone could, in a worst case scenario, far exceed the damage done by Fukushima.

Contrary to what the scamming Main Stream press has reported, Fukushima Reactor 3 was destroyed entirely while at 3, 000 PSI (far beyond specifications) which resulted in a complete core expulsion. This threw approximately 100,000 pounds of fuel into the environment, much of it in the form of brown dust that badly contaminated the entire surrounding area and was found around the World. At 100,000 pounds of expelled material, Reactor 3 could have produced at most two percent of the total contamination possible from a large American nuclear facility. This puts the possible disaster from Browns Ferry at 50 to 100 times worse than Fukushima. Multiply that by Prairie Island and the over 100 other similar sized nuclear facilities in America and it is not hard to calculate that a serious national security threat exists.

When GE and others designed the nuclear facilities both in America and abroad, they had calculated that they would indeed succeed in closing the nuclear loop. So they designed the nuclear facilities with an approximate 20 X safety margin in the fuel pools, because they did not have a clear date on when the technology would be perfected. It was my impression from this engineer that they got it sooner than expected. So fortunately the fuel pools were over built, but despite being over built they were never designed to withstand the fuel burdens that would result from a political decision to destroy the closed loop fuel cycle technology altogether.

So now, 40 years after the ban, America has fuel pools around the country that are so full that they have exceeded even the extremely generous safety margins they were originally designed to have, and even modest pools often have over 400 tons of highly active isotope ridden “spent” fuel in them.

Having functional fuel pool cooling systems was never intended to be necessary. GE and others wanted only a fractional core worth of fuel sitting in a pool at any one time, with at most one or two entire cores, not 15 or 20. If all cooling systems failed with only the intended maximum of one or two cores sitting in a pool there would be no boiling of the water in the pool, no pending disaster possible from equipment failure no matter how severe. But the way it is now, if there is any sort of attack or disaster which prevents fuel pool maintenance at any of the facilities in America for a period exceeding three days, the water will boil off, the fuel will catch fire and a nuclear disaster of unimaginable magnitude far in excess of Fukushima will take place. And it never needed to be this way, in fact, the situation is criminal.

Foreign nations offered help, but the American government said NO

Upon recognizing the lunacy of America’s Federally mandated nuclear sabotage, countries like France and Germany stepped offered to buy America’s 5% spent fuel for billions of dollars. They were not held political hostage by a hostile government, and could certainly use a source of cheap fuel. But rather than accept this offer, the American government mandated NO transport of the fuel to foreign nations, no further use whatsoever. American nuclear facilities were forced by Federal regulation to use approximately five percent of the fuel’s radiological potential, leaving 95 percent of the radiological hazard remaining, and subsequently forced to keep it in a fuel pool that needs continuous maintenance. While arguing against this report, shills have said it was the import and export restrictions which caused such a dangerous situation in America, but since those laws were written by the same government that banned the closing of the “nuclear loop“, the export restrictions are only a further indictment of the FED for causing this problem.

Simultaneous with the intentional building of the threat from having so much nuclear material sitting around came all the government scandals and lies about needing to put the fuel somewhere. Inside a mountain in the desert. Inside a dry cask. Maybe in the ocean, all the while the general American public was kept oblivious to the obvious answer: if we are not allowed to use it because of a nonsensical piece of legislation, why not let some one else have it, when they are willing to even pay for it?”

Aye, they can be shutdown and managed into silence. Not so much when an unmanaged shutdown occurs though.

Interesting read, thanks. Were Nik Tesla's research had have been implemented there would have been no real need for nuclear. Inefficiency has been good for business for a very long time.

[R650R]

The inmates are running the asylum lol

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300306177/department-of-conservation-caught-charging-plugin-hybrid-ev-with-diesel-power

Cleanest place in nz and their virtue signalling is more pollution than if they did nothing

[F5 Dave]

I'm a chef and this will prove to be virtually unworkable in coming decades.

The only alternative to gas is induction and they are horrifically expensive, so are suitable pans. Mega costs to change over, Martin Bosley' was understated if anything.

As for the BBQ. I haven't cooked on gas for years, went low and slow and never looked back. Weird they don't mention that charcoal or wood offsets are in the crosshairs.

Possibly a covert attempt to turn us all vegan.

Over my cold, dead, smoky brisket I say. To arms!

Summit else that makes me ponder about these proposed changes. What happens to all the vehicles, stoves etc that will be junked? Gonna be a lot of planes, trains and ships scrapped as well. Not for awhile, but.
. .
God why am I here?

Not existential. Just replying to a silly thread.

Ok here's my thing. I use gas for barbecue. But I have a rack above the burners and I stack pumice upon it .

So any fat drips down and soaks the pumice.


Then I place a roasting lid over what I am cooking. Smoke city. Just does gorgeous bbq.

[Growlybear]

Jobs will be created in the new sectors ... remember the move from horse-drawn to internal combustion? No, of course you don't - so let me say that lots of jobs caring for horses, driving and riding horse, markets for hay etc to feed them, harness manufacturers - all went out the window - and new jobs were created around internal combustion engines .. it will happen again.

When the fossil fuel runs out those businesses relying on it will be toast anyway ..

It's been generally accepted since the 80s, that we won't be running out of fossil fuels any time soon. Personally, I'd be keen for an EV, but I am way too poor to buy one.

[F5 Dave]

Can we bring this discussion back to bbq PLEeeassse.

[pritch]

I read R650R's cut and paste. Interesting, and I think I can see why Carter promulgated his executive order banning the sale of nuclear waste.

This passage quoting the Japanese engineer set off alarm bells.
“I started in the American nuclear program all the way back at the time of the Manhattan project,"

It's just not credible that there was a Japanese engineer anywhere near the Manhattan Project. Either chronologically or geographically.

[R650R]

I read R650R's cut and paste. Interesting, and I think I can see why Carter promulgated his executive order banning the sale of nuclear waste.

This passage quoting the Japanese engineer set off alarm bells.
“I started in the American nuclear program all the way back at the time of the Manhattan project,"

It's just not credible that there was a Japanese engineer anywhere near the Manhattan Project. Either chronologically or geographically.

Where does it say he is Japanese?

[george formby]

Can we bring this discussion back to bbq PLEeeassse.

Your pumice penchant is intriguing. I use kitty litter to catch my drips, fresh out of the bag, not the tray.. It seems to be just pumice.

Back on topic. EV's are like induction hobs. Quick, efficient and soulless.

Sorry, that's the only kinda relevant thing I could come up with while thinking about BBQ. (Had Wichita ribs last night lightly smoked with olive wood.:love:)

[pete376403]

Where does it say he is Japanese?

Correct, it doesn't. About the Carter ban on the reprocessing of fuel rods, if that technology existed, what is to stop any country outside of USA doing just that? That's right, nothing, and they do. Also Reagan overturned the Carter ban in 1981.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing

[F5 Dave]

So the pumice is held above the burners on a grate. The fat drips on the pumice and smokes creating smokey bbq meat. Or mex corn, those king sweetie capsicum. Yum.

[george formby]

So the pumice is held above the burners on a grate. The fat drips on the pumice and smokes creating smokey bbq meat. Or mex corn, those king sweetie capsicum. Yum.

:eek:Crikey man, don't mention burning fat or oil in this thread. You risk a stern talking too. Might even get Feta Gruntherg posting something petulant.

My kitty litter does not get hot enough for external combustion of the fats and oils. I use lumps of organically grown fruit trees. Less chance of British Leyland exhaust flavour.

Potentially you could use a drizzle of extra virgin Castrol R on your sweeties?

[BMWST?]

I read R650R's cut and paste. Interesting, and I think I can see why Carter promulgated his executive order banning the sale of nuclear waste.

This passage quoting the Japanese engineer set off alarm bells.
“I started in the American nuclear program all the way back at the time of the Manhattan project,"

It's just not credible that there was a Japanese engineer anywhere near the Manhattan Project. Either chronologically or geographically.

And even if he was...how old is he now?

[R650R]

And even if he was...how old is he now?

It is likely the 85 year old was interviewed some time in 2011 shortly after the disaster occurred. This would give a 1926 year of birth and prime university grad age at time of Manhattan project.

Any further questions? :)

[pritch]

Where does it say he is Japanese?

It doesn't. Now that you mention it.

[pritch]

It is likely the 85 year old was interviewed some time in 2011 shortly after the disaster occurred. This would give a 1926 year of birth and prime university grad age at time of Manhattan project.

Any further questions? :)

Graduating as a physics major at 17/18? They would just be leaving school at that age, graduation would be years off. University qualifications have been subject to fearsome inflation but a newly graduated BSc doesn't seem like an instant hire on the Manhattan project.

[F5 Dave]

Ohh don't use back of fag packet math to ridicule internet testimony. :nono:

[James Deuce]

It boggles my mind that despite being human and having to work with others, some people still think that a massive global conspiracy is an actual thing, instead of self-interest and general incompetence being responsible for the mess we're in. All you need for any project to turn to complete and utter shit is two people.

[mashman]

It boggles my mind that despite being human and having to work with others, some people still think that a massive global conspiracy is an actual thing, instead of self-interest and general incompetence being responsible for the mess we're in. All you need for any project to turn to complete and utter shit is two people.

Conspiracy: a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful.

The owners of production and worlds law changers that privately meet at Davos (the plan is secret, not the meeting), and other places, to set the direction that they want the world to go in doesn't fit the definition of massive global conspiracy? Then you'll miss the smidge of irony when ya then consider that said groups meeting to plan the future of mankind have done a shit job coz they're comprised of self-interested and generally incompetent human beings... among other things.

[Viking01]

It boggles my mind that despite being human and having to work with others, some people still think that a massive global conspiracy is an actual thing, instead of self-interest and general incompetence being responsible for the mess we're in. All you need for any project to turn to complete and utter shit is two people.

Afternoon.

Perhaps some people think that when self-interest (greed) colludes on a global basis, that is more than sufficient. When such organisations host meetings to discuss future geo-political power or the control of resources and services, and agree co-ordinated action behind closed doors. Like (i) the Banking sector e.g. BIS (ii) Davos (iii) NATO.

Greed sometimes clouds judgement and promotes unwarranted risk-taking. And continued "aggressive action" risks some players ending up in a financial or political "hole" (from which it will prove difficult to extract themselves - and maybe us in turn).

On the subject of their competence (incompetence), well, you be your own judge. But perhaps consider why the following has occurred, and whether you see it as a good sign for general global social and economic health.
e.g.
(i) Banking De-Regulation - My first thought was the US Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act in 1999 which repealed Glass-Steagall restrictions (separating US investment and retail banking). And within 10 years, we had a US-initiated Global Financial Crash (2008-09):

https://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/dereg-timeline-2009-07.pdf

(ii) Bank Interest Rates - Which have continued to fall over the past 2-3 years (even going negative in some cases). Coupled with wide scale qualitative easing (printing of money).

Where even recent minor increases in base lending rates by the FED have threatened to roil the markets (the last increase, only 5 basis points, announced some two weeks ago on the same day as the Biden / Putin summit meeting, caused some degree of consternation in currency markets).

(iii) The Global Derivatives Market - Where the nominal value of the derivatives market probably swamps collective global GDP by a factor of 10x or more (depending upon which financial instruments you factor into consideration).

https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/052715/how-big-derivatives-market.asp

I struggle to imagine the global mayhem when that "house of cards" collapses. When banks can't (or won't) settle their inter-party obligations, and when global trading of goods and services - dependent upon credit - consequently slows down or grinds to a halt.

(iv) Global Hedge Funds - Which seem to crash on an increasingly frequent basis, precipitate a "financial crisis", and which end up needing (?) to be bailed out. Risk capital - why should they be bailed out ? How many more financial "trigger events" do we need ?

(v) NATO - Originally established as a defence organisation for western Europe post WW2. Headquartered in Brussels, and controlled by the US military.

Since the collapse of the USSR in 1991, breaking its verbal commitments to the Russian Federation, and progressively expanding its way across eastern Europe to the Black Sea. And with various members becoming involved in NATO missions increasingly further away from home (e.g. Yugoslavia, Libya, Syria, central Africa). Why ?

More recently "baiting" the Russian Federation in their own backyard (courtesy of Boris and HMS Defender). And with plenty more rounds of opportunity this calendar year:

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014/assets/pdf/2021/3/pdf/2103-factsheet_exercises.pdf

And now that the EU has been "lined up" to focus its attentions on the RF, the US is now free to "pivot back" to and concentrate on China. Where the US strategy against China is now about to become law (with the Strategic Competition with China Act, S 1169, introduced as a bi-partisan initiative April 15). Leaving little doubt of US intention for all-out confrontation with China, on economic, military, technological and ideological grounds.

What could possibly go wrong? And that's without putting on my tinfoil hat.

[Edit]
What is the collective term for idiots? A collusion ? An administration ?

https://sputniknews.com/world/202107061083320654-raab-uk-ships-to-continue-to-sail-waters-near-crimea-after-hms-defender-incident/
https://www.rt.com/news/528488-japan-defend-taiwan-us-china/

[R650R]

It boggles my mind that despite being human and having to work with others, some people still think that a massive global conspiracy is an actual thing, instead of self-interest and general incompetence being responsible for the mess we're in. All you need for any project to turn to complete and utter shit is two people.

We have frequent news reports of instances of racketeering/price fixing/illegal imports/criminal acts/fraud etc.... then in our own workplaces you often see on a smaller scale people will collide in small groups to effect an advantage over others.
But for some reason people think that the richest and most powerful people in the world justvlet world events run their own natural course at the whim of democracy and the peasants voting choices?

[James Deuce]

We have frequent news reports of instances of racketeering/price fixing/illegal imports/criminal acts/fraud etc.... then in our own workplaces you often see on a smaller scale people will collide in small groups to effect an advantage over others.
But for some reason people think that the richest and most powerful people in the world justvlet world events run their own natural course at the whim of democracy and the peasants voting choices?
I did not say that ;)

[R650R]

Interesting..., wonder if all thectree hugging greenies realise trees bleed for rubber tyres, let alone the peadsnt labour involved in production.....

Puts new angle on strategic importance of neighbour Vietnam ....


https://youtu.be/p_9XvHBb3nw

[FJRider]

Interesting..., wonder if all thectree hugging greenies realise trees bleed for rubber tyres, let alone the peadsnt labour involved in production.....

Puts new angle on strategic importance of neighbour Vietnam ....



You might not have noticed ... but even Electric cars use rubber tires.

And most of South East Asia is a Rubber Tree growing area (not just Vietnam) ... and the workforce involved (in the harvesting of the rubber sap) is huge.

The Rubber industry will be around for a while yet.

[R650R]

You might not have noticed ... but even Electric cars use rubber tires.

And most of South East Asia is a Rubber Tree growing area (not just Vietnam) ... and the workforce involved (in the harvesting of the rubber sap) is huge.

The Rubber industry will be around for a while yet.

You may not have noticed that I did notice, the whole reason for the post. Ahhh the fine subtleties of the English grammar when sarcasm emoticons arent used....

Thailand is the major player, Vietnam was just mentioned in terms of its geopolitical significance. Just imagine if the commies has complete control and then Thailand fell. Interestingly we are lucky that Thailand has a western friendly political system undergoing reforms in the Siam era when they realised the French and English had eyes on them

[george formby]

Some interesting perspectives pop up in this wee vid. I never knew JCB was owned by a Lord.

He does seem to argue a very good case for H.


https://youtu.be/wDKLoLUQgH0

[F5 Dave]

Hydrogen is an inefficient energy vector. However it is transportable without batteries. Horses for courses.

Just buying a bike and upgrading wiffs car. Petrol city.

[pritch]

Thailand is the major player, Vietnam was just mentioned in terms of its geopolitical significance. Just imagine if the commies has complete control and then Thailand fell. Interestingly we are lucky that Thailand has a western friendly political system undergoing reforms in the Siam era when they realised the French and English had eyes on them

The rubber plantations in Vietnam were probably historically owned by Michelin. The plantations in Malaya were owned by British companies.
Thailand wasn't colonised, so they at least owned their own plantations.

[Naki Rat]

If Wellington City Council is anything like other councils:

removing street parking,
reducing speed to 30 and
making streets narrower for cars to install new lanes for cycles,


then there's Andrew Little on tv admitting that the housing crisis will mean no garages for kiwi builds because that's land that can be used for more housing... the future of cars is going to be for the wealthy only. ......This scenario fits in with the WCC's and Andrew Little's plans. Tony Seba has been rolling out this presentation for years now and the only thing that seems to change is that predictions turn into fact, usually earlier than predicted.

Sure a lot of the vehicle usage doesn't apply in a country as sparsely populated as New Zealand with our more rural regions but it will for many Western countries and when that happens NZ will have its national fleet significantly affected as vehicle manufacture caters for the volume markets. We just need to ensure that we don't become a dumping ground for all the redundant technology that will result.

https://youtu.be/2b3ttqYDwF0
Whichever way it plays out you can guarantee that we are in for huge changes in the next decade or so.

[pritch]

That the government doesn't want to waste space on garaging should not come as a shock. Even though more than a few of our fellow citizens appear to be living in garages currently.

Large parts of Wellington have never had off-road parking, they'll be fine. They're used to it. The big cities in Europe have large areas with no off-road parking, and those people can park a car where the average Kiwi would have no show.

None of this will affect out enthusiasm for gas guzzlers. It'll take more than that.

[R650R]

That the government doesn't want to waste space on garaging should not come as a shock. Even though more than a few of our fellow citizens appear to be living in garages currently.

Large parts of Wellington have never had off-road parking, they'll be fine. They're used to it. The big cities in Europe have large areas with no off-road parking, and those people can park a car where the average Kiwi would have no show.

None of this will affect out enthusiasm for gas guzzlers. It'll take more than that.

Will make overnight charging at home interesting. Thieves will love it given what the price for scrap copper will be by then....

Some areas you must have a garden shed on new build to store a lawn mower/weed killer etc Found this out when enquiring why HNZ subdivided properties had brand new garden sheds put on them. I guess they thought the dope vote was going the other way lol

[pritch]

Will make overnight charging at home interesting. Thieves will love it given what the price for scrap copper will be by then....

Some areas you must have a garden shed on new build to store a lawn mower/weed killer etc Found this out when enquiring why HNZ subdivided properties had brand new garden sheds put on them. I guess they thought the dope vote was going the other way lol

Around here urban infill is the thing. Most new builds have garages attached. Just as well, they'd be pushing to find space for a dog kennel on what's left of the section.

[R650R]

Revising my trend forecast to five years left.
This is based on the covid seasons and variants to carry on til 2026 and also on manufacturer implemented technologies such as the in built speed limiters to national limits coming in soon in Europe.
With travel restrictions due to covid the advantage of petrol being long distance with prestored energy and fast refuel becoming superfluous. People will have adapted to the restrictions and given up their desire to travel, it will be a thing of the past.
With a dozen more lockdowns smashing small businesses there will be no small mechanics or small dealerships left in business. Also new ute tax type levies will gradually make petrol cars unaffordable and strict new emission laws will see a car buyback scheme crush the rest.
On the eve of covid being conquered we will be confronted by the numbers of people lead to early death or disease by vehicle emissions.
Gradually increasing in length monthly petrol power lockdowns will trigger people to swap to electric. As demand falls off the support infrastructure will collapse the same way motels and cafes are crushed by lockdowns....
The team of five million, sorry six million I forgot the 1 million refugees we will take from Biden’s war with Iran will lead the world and set an example.
Btw few new faces here this is not my desire but just what I see coming based on current events

So get out there and ride guys, clock up those petrol powered kms while you can

[R650R]

Well bugger me look what they slipped in the back door while all the hoopla about the ute tax was going on....,

https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/evs/124541274/clean-car-standard-should-help-lower-ev-prices-from-2023

It’s scary that the only car that comes close to passing is a 1.2L Suzuki swift. Bikes are not mentioned yet but be warned our “emissions” per km only best cars on CO2, we are way worse on all other stuff...
Most of NZ can’t affird a new EV and most should never smart enough to nite but a second hand ev/hybrid with questionable battery life left....
So we will still buy petrol suck up the tax penalty til they ratchet up a few more notches.
If you want to get a performance bike or car of any kind now is time to buy...
How long till we have to bolt the cat back on st WOF time????

[george formby]

How long till we have to bolt the cat back on st WOF time????

I refuse to let a grubby fingered WoF tester touch my pussy!

[R650R]

I refuse to let a grubby fingered WoF tester touch my pussy!

If it’s in such condition that it needs bolts and clamps prob no one wants to touch it 😂

[R650R]

Ho ho ho that didn’t take long....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/126601276/wind-turbine-on-fire-on-tararua-range

Now let’s just wait for our climate controlled media to tell us it’s just s bizarre one off occursnce and not just a standard industry problem

[caspernz]

Ho ho ho that didn’t take long....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/126601276/wind-turbine-on-fire-on-tararua-range

Now let’s just wait for our climate controlled media to tell us it’s just s bizarre one off occursnce and not just a standard industry problem

Given the fire rate is something like 1 in 1700 for wind turbines worldwide, if I recall correctly, and the majority of fires go unreported...clean green wind energy is an oxymoron :facepalm::blink:

At the height of the nacelle on these turbines, the fire brigade just goes to observe and prevent a bush fire I suppose :confused::eek:

[R650R]

Lot of hoons in news lately.... what will they and theives do with electric vehicles.

Instead of burnouts will we see high voltage coronal discharges of mini lightening bolts?
I see hundreds of electric vehicles will be driven off roadside into Bush and used to power lighting for dope crops in caves
Or being used to reverse charge a crooks home then dumped and burned in spectacular style???
And if theives are risking death to steal catslytic converters just imagine the black market for a battery’s swap

[george formby]

I see hundreds of electric vehicles will be driven off roadside into Bush and used to power lighting for dope crops in caves

What an excellent idea. Personally I would go for an electric bus, mobile grow room.

[R650R]

James Shaw made a ridiculous claim during his cash for clunkers proposal.

Our children will experience 5 times more droughts and four times more flooding events than previous generations...
Now James just which generation are we measuring against????
It’s important as with increasing life expectancy the maths matters.
Droughts and floods are normal parts of weather cycles and even when they do occur they are managed well and are not civilisation threatening affairs....
You’d think someone who just internationally travelled on jet plane during worldwide pandemic to attend a climate conference would have some more accurate data????

[Dadpole]

Care to show me some examples of well managed floods and droughts?

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/10/the-security-threats-of-net-zero-one-of-36-stratagems-to-defeat-the-enemy/

[R650R]

Care to show me some examples of well managed floods and droughts?

All over NZ we have been dealing with them successfully for decades with a few minor bruises along the way

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/11/after-26-cop-meetings-we-are-a-fossil-fueled-world-coal-oil-gas-give-us-80-of-the-energy-on-earth/

[george formby]

But wait...


https://youtu.be/y6iQlkUXUsE

[R650R]

Well we’ll, well.... https://i.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126910299/will-poor-and-indigenous-communities-pay-the-price-for-nzs-climate-inaction

It seems the greenies are finally wising up to the scam, that it’s all about money and dirty money at that in more ways than one.
What’s really concerning though is we now have corporations promoting young people to protest about climate change. The script is becoming clear.
The tool of balkanisation used by the elite to destroy large successful independant countries is now being used on western societies. Soon our own children will be attacking us old folk for destroying the planet....

[Dadpole]

The tool of balkanisation used by the elite

Would that be the Lizard People elite or the Illuminati elite? Asking for a friend....

[F5 Dave]

We should start a poll.

Vote the way that R666 will be gunned down by the Police:

a) rambling rifle waving maniac in central city
b) failed attempt to wound an elite social worker (who may have been a lizard)
c) assassination by police as was about to expose the edge of the earth dome

[R650R]

Surprisingly labour’s transport minister supports the logic of keeping this place open, but sadly her fellow colleagues can’t see the wood for the trees in fog of climate debate.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/127057188/no-last-minute-reprieve-for-marsden-point-oil-refinery

Marsden is a strategic national assett that allows us to shop around on the globally crude market. Now we will be at the mercy of the few refined product suppliers willing to deal with such a small customer. All the major fuel price hikes in recent years have been due to peak refining capacity not a lack of oil supply. Some commentators have even remarked on the suspicious nature of some refinery accidents.
It’s one of the few industry’s where if you accidently cut your capacity you benefit in price hikes....

The govt should be nationalising this assett to help control our economic competitive for exporters during tradition to electric. Any higher prices get passed on to consumers and exporters weakening our international competitiveness....

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/labor-hands-coalition-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving-another-climate-election/

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/japan-joined-glasgow-but-tells-people-at-home-to-double-oil-and-gas-production-by-2040/

[pete376403]

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/labor-hands-coalition-the-gift-that-keeps-on-giving-another-climate-election/

https://joannenova.com.au/2021/12/japan-joined-glasgow-but-tells-people-at-home-to-double-oil-and-gas-production-by-2040/

Maybe if your posts did not reference such a dubious source...


Joanne Nova - She self-published[8] the book The Skeptics Handbook, which rejects the scientific consensus on climate change and promotes various falsehoods about climate change.[11] The book argues that temperatures have not increased, and that greenhouse gases do not contribute to climate change.[11][5] The book promotes the myth that there is already so much CO2 in the atmosphere that adding more will not have an impact on temperatures.[11][12] The book was widely distributed in the United States by The Heartland Institute, known primarily for promoting pseudoscientific views on climate change and the harms of smoking.[11][13] In 2009, Nova self-published[8] a sequel, Global Bullies Want Your Money, and in the same year she wrote a paper for the SPPI titled Climate Money.[14] That year, she gave a presentation at the Heartland Institute, titled "The Great Global Fawning: How Science Journalists Pay Homage to Non-Science and Un-Reason."[11]

She has falsely claimed that fewer than half of climate scientists agree with the IPCC's conclusion that CO2 is the dominant contributor to climate change.[4] PolitiFact described that as a "flat-out wrong" interpretation of data from a survey, and the lead author of the survey in question said that the survey showed "a strong majority of scientists agree that greenhouse gases originating from human activity are the dominant cause of recent warming."[4] Nova has argued that climate science is distorted by money, saying "thousands of scientists have been funded to find a connection between human carbon emissions and the climate. Hardly any have been funded to find the opposite."[

[R650R]

Maybe if your posts did not reference such a dubious source...


Joanne Nova - She self-published[8] the book The Skeptics Handbook, which rejects the scientific consensus on climate change and promotes various falsehoods about climate change.[11] The book argues that temperatures have not increased, and that greenhouse gases do not contribute to climate change.[11][5] The book promotes the myth that there is already so much CO2 in the atmosphere that adding more will not have an impact on temperatures.[11][12] The book was widely distributed in the United States by The Heartland Institute, known primarily for promoting pseudoscientific views on climate change and the harms of smoking.[11][13] In 2009, Nova self-published[8] a sequel, Global Bullies Want Your Money, and in the same year she wrote a paper for the SPPI titled Climate Money.[14] That year, she gave a presentation at the Heartland Institute, titled "The Great Global Fawning: How Science Journalists Pay Homage to Non-Science and Un-Reason."[11]

She has falsely claimed that fewer than half of climate scientists agree with the IPCC's conclusion that CO2 is the dominant contributor to climate change.[4] PolitiFact described that as a "flat-out wrong" interpretation of data from a survey, and the lead author of the survey in question said that the survey showed "a strong majority of scientists agree that greenhouse gases originating from human activity are the dominant cause of recent warming."[4] Nova has argued that climate science is distorted by money, saying "thousands of scientists have been funded to find a connection between human carbon emissions and the climate. Hardly any have been funded to find the opposite."[

Greenhouse gas effect is only a hypothesis unable to be proven by scientific methods as we don’t have a seperate earth to run control experiment. There’s is no “science”
CO2 is a TRACE element at 400 parts per million, infitesminally small....

[mashman]

Greenhouse gas effect is only a hypothesis unable to be proven by scientific methods as we don’t have a seperate earth to run control experiment. There’s is no “science”
CO2 is a TRACE element at 400 parts per million, infitesminally small....

Lack of 50% of the worlds trees should tip ya'll to the notion that CO2 is at more than natural trace element levels. Replacing the equivalent foliage, and therefore natural trace element levels, takes thousands of years, not "the world has never been so green after 10 years of intensive planting" (for profit to be harvested well before maturity given that a tree is a product, not something that helps filter the air and keep temps in various areas cooler etc...) populist bullshit that flies in the face of all logic, reason and common sense, let alone scientific evidence. Anything else is greenwashing.

"EPA has set a limit of 0.01 parts per million (ppm) for arsenic in drinking water". Sure a human could handle more, but hey, they get sicker the more that's added. It's almost as though the human body thrives on clean air, water and food... something, somewhat ironically, human beings are intent on making sure never happens... but hey, ROI is so very important.

[george formby]

Greenhouse gas effect is only a hypothesis unable to be proven by scientific methods as we don’t have a seperate earth to run control experiment. There’s is no “science”
CO2 is a TRACE element at 400 parts per million, infitesminally small....


It would seem scientists disagree.

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-59475410

[R650R]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10298487/Owning-car-outdated-20th-century-thinking-transport-minister-Trudy-Harrison-says.html

Im sure weve all shared work vehicles st some stage.... from fuelcards/seat position/ rubbish yeah nah no thanks... this ain’t going to work.

[R650R]

Thankfully due to govt ineptitude it’s seems not too much is actually going to happen

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300590056/over-half-of-emissions-reduction-plan-is-plans-to-make-other-plans

But it’s starting, they are coming for our engines.....

Did some quick maths on the 569 million and factored in govts ability to actually deliver something.
They are going to help poor first. Let’s say they buy back 10,000 clunkers at $5,000 each then give each person 50k to buy electric car.... pooooof it’s gone.....

I can’t wait for the howls of racism and inequity when they announce the trade in will have to have WOF and rego to stop people cashing in with unroadworthy wrecks. Cause there’s half the target vehicles gone for starters


https://youtu.be/A-M9Z6F18Vk

[R650R]

JamesShaw gets thoroughly owned at end of this video.... seems very uncomfortable to admit what car he owns even though it is “ green”

Fastfwd to halfway to hear very little about how the cash for clunkers will work. Of note they are talking 6-10k for your old shitter.... but there’s no mechanism in place to control what you buy next ...
Like all techno believers they think modern cars are much more fuel efficient than older ones but I think that some been we’ll proven as urban myth, it’s mostly in the driving technique.
Also rabbitts on about maintainance costs not realising that in the price range he escaped talking about people don’t service them unless it’s absolute necessity.


https://youtu.be/Wdu-F3L0B8w

[R650R]

Dangerous territory now with a knowledge sharing deal signed with Wokefornia, the state that killed off two stroke motorcycles....

Right now the dimwits in Wellington prob don’t know about cat removal and aftermarket engine tunes all of which is banned over there.....

https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/128787830/new-zealand-and-california-ink-deal-to-cooperate-on-climate

[george formby]

Here is an interesting take on where Britain will stand with continued development of fossil fuels. Seeing as we buy all of ours from off shore it probably effects us even more.

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/opinion/north-sea-oil-gas-climate-crisis-b2088725.html

[george formby]

I like the way this guy explains a big picture.


https://youtu.be/S1E8SQde5rk

[R650R]

Good video George, always knew the greenies we’re keeping a secret about carbon levels involved in ev production. Wonder if it factors in all the emissions from the actual creation of the new industry along with all the conference Sc etc...,

He needs to do more research, he conveniently overlooks at the footprint of steel and concrete in construction of wind turbines....

[GazzaH]

Old-school fossil fuel power stations are mostly steel and concrete too. Not as much carbon-fibre though, in my experience.

[george formby]

Good video George, always knew the greenies weÂ’re keeping a secret about carbon levels involved in ev production. Wonder if it factors in all the emissions from the actual creation of the new industry along with all the conference Sc etc...,

He needs to do more research, he conveniently overlooks at the footprint of steel and concrete in construction of wind turbines....

I suspect that talk was more about making people think in a big picture way rather than definitively listing all the ways we are releasing carbon.

I'm sceptical of the big push for EV's for the reasons he states.

He also does not discuss the lifespan of an ICE vehicle v an EV, the graph only covers a certain mileage and time. Nor does he mention repairs.

I was getting a WoF t'other day and got my eye on a couriers Transit with the motor out. The oil pump had failed and the van driven until a piston nipped up :facepalm:, 370'000km's. The cost and ease of repair, relatively speaking, made it worthwhile rather than buying a new van. As EV's stand now it would be a write off, too expensive to fix.

It's pretty easy to shoot down the EV argument when we think beyond the shrill publicity but they are a step in the right direction.
I totally agree that hybrids are the way forward for most people and industries. Especially if we can get some scale on full cycle fuel production.

Loved the horse example! Didn't mention methane, either...

[R650R]

The big push will continue as it’s coming from govt level. They really care not if say 20-30% of population can’t afford to buy an ev. As far as they are concerned walk or catch bus etc....
And the reason they are pushing EV is for security, theirs not ours....
This is because the current system is falling apart as people are educating themselves via internet, the govt no longer controls the narrative. And what do you do to any angry horde or wild animal that’s might attack you ??? Restrict their movement....

For example in an EV world the Wellington protest would never have happened. The AI machine and intel would detect rising unrest and critical leaders and voices would just have their chargers remotely bricked and their public health/transport access cards would be switched off remotely.

Liquid fuels and LPG allow rapid transfer of high density energy sources to be easily shared without control. The elite want to be able to switch us off at will like a parent unplugging router at dinner time etc

[george formby]

The big push will continue as it’s coming from govt level. They really care not if say 20-30% of population can’t afford to buy an ev. As far as they are concerned walk or catch bus etc....
And the reason they are pushing EV is for security, theirs not ours....
This is because the current system is falling apart as people are educating themselves via internet, the govt no longer controls the narrative. And what do you do to any angry horde or wild animal that’s might attack you ??? Restrict their movement....

For example in an EV world the Wellington protest would never have happened. The AI machine and intel would detect rising unrest and critical leaders and voices would just have their chargers remotely bricked and their public health/transport access cards would be switched off remotely.

Liquid fuels and LPG allow rapid transfer of high density energy sources to be easily shared without control. The elite want to be able to switch us off at will like a parent unplugging router at dinner time etc

You must be using a different internet, your claims are bizarre.

[pete376403]

You must be using a different internet, your claims are bizarre.
Off his meds...

[Berries]

And what do you do to any angry horde or wild animal that’s might attack you ???
Film it and post it on Tick Tock for the lolz?

[R650R]

Film it and post it on Tick Tock for the lolz?

Haha so true actually.... I might die here but I better catch it on film 😂

[R650R]

Well we’ll.... coal consumption set to match or beat all time record of 2013....

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/08/might-be-more-coal-burned-in-2022-than-any-other-time-in-human-existence/

We in the west continue to cripple our economies with green nonsense while the real power brokers of future China and India continue full steam ahead

[TheDemonLord]

continue full steam ahead

Both Figuratively...

And Literally.

[R650R]

As many reputable scientists have said water vapour is prob more significant than any effect CO2 allegedly has on climate. So much so google has been caught altering calculations of jet emissions as it doesn’t fit the narrative.

You see you can’t have a new hydrogen fuel cell industry producing water vapour if your mates are saying water vapour is bad....


https://youtu.be/onf7Ih6JYDE

[R650R]

About halfway through this clip while they are discussing can the grid cope, the transport minister subtly alludes to the coming technocratic control grid where they will decide how much electricity you get.
His comment in reply to the strain is oh that’s why we will need smart charging.

What’s smart charging? That’s where the govt/provider cohort to RATION how much power you get and when. No doubt there will coincidentally be power shortages if theres about to be a protest.
Hitler would have loved this, no need for all those trains and camps just turn power off in winter.

You have to love that they openly admit in true labour fashion they have no idea how much these hubs will cost. Expert interviewed says looking st around 10million each so its easily going to balloon to half a billion dollars for the 25-30 sites promised. There go the savings from the policy bonfire.
Why isn’t private enterprise already building these mega ev charge hubs? Perhaps the smartest people in the room have done the maths on actual demand


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTMieRMf8Y&feature=youtu.be

[Naki Rat]

About halfway through this clip while they are discussing can the grid cope, the transport minister subtly alludes to the coming technocratic control grid where they will decide how much electricity you get.
His comment in reply to the strain is oh thatÂ’s why we will need smart charging.

WhatÂ’s smart charging? ThatÂ’s where the govt/provider cohort to RATION how much power you get and when. No doubt there will coincidentally be power shortages if theres about to be a protest.
Hitler would have loved this, no need for all those trains and camps just turn power off in winter.

You have to love that they openly admit in true labour fashion they have no idea how much these hubs will cost. Expert interviewed says looking st around 10million each so its easily going to balloon to half a billion dollars for the 25-30 sites promised. There go the savings from the policy bonfire.
Why isnÂ’t private enterprise already building these mega ev charge hubs? Perhaps the smartest people in the room have done the maths on actual demand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NoTMieRMf8Y&feature=youtu.be

Your comment is written very much from the perspective of a fossil fueled vehicle owner who is totally reliant on regularly filling up at a fuel station to maintain your mobility. In our case our two EVs are charged at home 90+% of the time with much of that electricity sourced from our own PV generation. Our long distance EV (a Polestar2) typically charges once every month or so when we do an out of province trip.
https://trademe.tmcdn.co.nz/photoserver/full/1875648637.jpg

Our EVs have given us very cheap running costs (~2c/km based on the lost export of our PV generation), minimal maintenance costs and a potential energy supply for our home by way of V2G. (Admittedly the viability and regulatory side of V2G is still a work in progress as technology and legislation catches up with our plans).

While Steve West recognised the delayed return on his foray into public EV charging when he initiated ChargeNet as a start-up venture the demand for this service is now more than this company can keep up with. If not for ChargeNet NZ EV owners would now be reliant on the fuel companies (conflict of interest?) and state to provide charging facilities for the rapidly expanding national EV fleet. You need only look to the UK to see what the government have in mind with their recent proposal. Facilities similar to GridServe's installations up and down NZ in order to keep up with the needs of our rapidly increasing EV fleet.


https://youtu.be/FoN4WCpuxHY

[R650R]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.
It’s going to be very interesting for the working classes as the carbon zero deadline closes in...

I earn enough that I care not for the running costs of my wagon, my time is more important to me. I refuel my car about once a month that only costs me about 6 mins of my time and several hours wages.

I do like the emerging technology where you’re car can be a powerbank for house if needed, however the samectechnology will allow the state to take back your stored energy to spread load in peak times. I doubt they will compensate owners for the wear and tear (charge cycles) on limited life batteries or pay full amount of original power given there is a loss in system during transmission and charging heat when you stored that energy.

[Naki Rat]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesnÂ’t earn a lot of money and canÂ’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.
ItÂ’s going to be very interesting for the working classes as the carbon zero deadline closes in...

I earn enough that I care not for the running costs of my wagon, my time is more important to me. I refuel my car about once a month that only costs me about 6 mins of my time and several hours wages.

I do like the emerging technology where youÂ’re car can be a powerbank for house if needed, however the samectechnology will allow the state to take back your stored energy to spread load in peak times. I doubt they will compensate owners for the wear and tear (charge cycles) on limited life batteries or pay full amount of original power given there is a loss in system during transmission and charging heat when you stored that energy.You do realise that an EV can be charged from any household socket? It just takes a while using a 2kW outlet to charge a 60+kWh battery. Our EV charger cost us about $1,000 10 years back and provides an overnight fill from near empty using a 7kW output. Reality is that our charging effort is no more time consuming than plugging in any battery powered device (takes 5 seconds) and is scheduled from 11:00pm to use off peak rates (if we're not charging during daylight using PV with any PV shortfall covered by off peak weekend rates).

Granted the PV is a significant investment but we enjoy power bills of<$150/month which of course includes charging both cars. Like the 'fuel' savings we have enjoyed from the Leaf in the near 10 years that we've owned it we look upon the cost as paying forward on our cost of living and a way of protecting ourselves from the inevitable price increases of travel and home energy costs. We are fortunate enough to be able to invest in our own future and we see such investments as more reliable than financial investments in the current and future international business climate. Developing our own battery back-up is also attractive in terms of resilience especially as we are rural so water is pumped and we have 2x 700L chest freezers that are at risk in extended power outages.

So far as battery degradation is concerned emerging battery chemistries are far more resilient than past and current designs, and we are very much of a mind that any battery (including by V2G) system that we go with will be as disconnected from outside control measures as possible. The ultimate in this regard is to go totally off-grid but this presents too many restrictions (or added expence) to be a viable option.

[nerrrd]

You do realise that an EV can be charged from any household socket?

EV's won't be the answer for many people without their own parking, or those of us who live in blocks with separate shared parking areas – I personally can't run household power to my parking space, it would have to be installed by the Body Corporate (they probably would if there was enough demand, but at the moment for our 10 units, no one has an EV, same for the other building alongside with 12 units, so not happening anytime soon).

Swappable battery tech might work for me, if that ever comes along. And is cheap.

[R650R]

More anti-car/bike stuff under the guise of “safety”

https://i.stuff.co.nz/motoring/300948556/auckland-rail-crossings-will-be-closed-45-mins-an-hour-during-peak-commute

Hidden in a photo caption near end is that within next 30 years Raul crossings that aren’t delegated by an under or over pass will be closed to traffic!!!
Rail is set to become its own Berlin Wall of Auckland dividing communities….

I suspect with more rail services we’ll get the UK style control where the barrier arms stay down if there’s another train coming in few minutes incase someone blocks the crossing.

[pete376403]

Well done Nakirat it seems you are in a fortunate position to make it work for you.
However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups..

You d know that there is a company offering free supply and installation of solar panels, controller and battery in exchange for a long term commitment?
I have a 12 panel system with Panasonic 6.5 KwH battery.The system is leased from SolarZero for a fixed charge over the term of the contract. Ecotricity are the grid connection and they buy my surplus energy as the same price as the supply it to me, Admittedly with the shit weather of late I havent been selling much but summer time regularly sees me with a credit each month, even after the line charges that Wellington Electricity apply

[pritch]

However a large portion of our country doesn’t earn a lot of money and can’t afford to instal solar and home charging setups.


True, and the initial expense requires a number of years to become economically viable, for people beyond a certain age the sums just don't work. For some time now I've thought all new builds should have a stipulated minimum number of solar panels so as to assist with the increased demand caused by heat pumps and EVs.

A slightly different tack, on the hilly areas of Wellington, of which there are more than a few, many houses don't have off street parking. Imagine the veritable spider's web of extension cords dangling across footpaths. Creative people will be finding a variety of ways to be hospitalised.

[R650R]

In London they are trying to ban cars by stealth. The new low emission zones basically charge the average person an hours wage every time they move in greater London area.
One chap successfully argued case in court as there is no proper signage informing of the fee/penalty , and no option/space to turn around and exit to alternate route.
Meanwhile other people are risking prison disabling the cameras and “breaking down” by camera vans blocking their view.
This chap filmed a humourus video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zb8rgGz2V20&pp=ygURVWxleCBtYWludGFpbmFuY2U%3D

[BMWST?]

EV's won't be the answer for many people without their own parking, or those of us who live in blocks with separate shared parking areas – I personally can't run household power to my parking space, it would have to be installed by the Body Corporate (they probably would if there was enough demand, but at the moment for our 10 units, no one has an EV, same for the other building alongside with 12 units, so not happening anytime soon).

Swappable battery tech might work for me, if that ever comes along. And is cheap.
body corp would have to collect those moneys from owners.Is the a car park per unit? Do some units have 2 car parks and othrs none?? The unit oners will end up paying anyway

[R650R]

Finally someone with a bit of influence gets the bigger picture, it’s all about dismantling the ICE infrastructure and car building factories so all that’s left is buses and trains.
It’s clear EVs are never going to be practical for our current western lifestyles. There’s no way that EVs or charging infrastructure even if built could cope with:
The mass exodus at start of school holidays
30,000 people all going to same cricket match or rock concert
That fishing tournament with 3000 ford rangers heading up north this weekend.

We’re at a tipping point now where as manufacturers pull out of building ICE the economy of scale starts making third party supplied parts and production tools excessively expensive. Couple this with losses done have made on bad ev designs that people are not buying and well it doesn’t look good.
An example from recent past is how californias two stroke ban basically shagged the whole world wide market for road going two strokes. And look how fast that snow balled.
Also the covid driven (allegedly) chip shortage for processors. It’s quite scary at a time when Russia and China are positioned for war we are voluntarily dismantling production capability along with power generation also…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNK0mUhRKDo&pp=ygUPZ2VvZmYgYnV5cyBjYXJz

[pritch]

In London they are trying to ban cars by stealth.

Yeah. There is a YouTube clip where a woman explains her situation to the mayor on a radio show. She was struggling financially but ULEZ means she can't afford to eat. She certainly can't afford a new car although the mayors magic maths lead him to believe she could.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXviglZWYC4&t=434s

[nerrrd]

body corp would have to collect those moneys from owners.Is the a car park per unit? Do some units have 2 car parks and othrs none?? The unit oners will end up paying anyway

Yes they would, if a majority of owners agreed to do so, but there's no demand currently (:laugh:).

For us, 7 out of 10 units have allocated parking, the remaining 3 are first come first served (they're on a right of way so can't be 'owned' individually).

It's the type of block that was build back in the day for retirees, I don't think parking was a priority even then (my carport is considerably narrower than normal for instance, plenty of room for a bike though).

[pritch]

Recently I mentioned the Mazda hybrid which uses an 800cc rotary to charge the battery. I can't remember where I posted that but this thread will do now.

Yesterday while cruising YouTube I came across a hybrid fire engine. The wheels are driven by electric motors, the internal combustion engine, in the usual place, is not connected to the drive train. It just charges the batteries. It is not imitating Mazda. The fire engine is in the Southward museum and dates from the 1920s.

[R650R]

Recently I mentioned the Mazda hybrid which uses an 800cc rotary to charge the battery. I can't remember where I posted that but this thread will do now.

Yesterday while cruising YouTube I came across a hybrid fire engine. The wheels are driven by electric motors, the internal combustion engine, in the usual place, is not connected to the drive train. It just charges the batteries. It is not imitating Mazda. The fire engine is in the Southward museum and dates from the 1920s.

Yes there’s a lot of technology already used in past. Even double overhead camshafts were used way back then too. A lot of time though due to economic reasons stuff was not considered.

Combustion driven electro-hydraulics for power are also common in excavators and cranes also, it makes sense for many reasons. That fire engine was prob a good idea when towns were smaller and sustained higher speeds were not needed. However a modern fire engine carries so much gear and might need to suddenly romp out long distance to bushfire or car crash in country that the energy density of a diesel engine is king.

[Naki Rat]

Finally someone with a bit of influence gets the bigger picture, it’s all about dismantling the ICE infrastructure and car building factories so all that’s left is buses and trains.
It’s clear EVs are never going to be practical for our current western lifestyles. There’s no way that EVs or charging infrastructure even if built could cope with:
The mass exodus at start of school holidays
30,000 people all going to same cricket match or rock concert
That fishing tournament with 3000 ford rangers heading up north this weekend.

We’re at a tipping point now where as manufacturers pull out of building ICE the economy of scale starts making third party supplied parts and production tools excessively expensive. Couple this with losses done have made on bad ev designs that people are not buying and well it doesn’t look good.
An example from recent past is how californias two stroke ban basically shagged the whole world wide market for road going two strokes. And look how fast that snow balled.
Also the covid driven (allegedly) chip shortage for processors. It’s quite scary at a time when Russia and China are positioned for war we are voluntarily dismantling production capability along with power generation also…


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNK0mUhRKDo&pp=ygUPZ2VvZmYgYnV5cyBjYXJzGeoff certainly has issues with just about everything in his life it would seem. Like a drunk uncle that corners you at the family get together with opinions on all manner of things but lacking facts to back up those opinions. What he is referring to in the early stages of his rant is the effects of disruptive technology which EVs definitely are. The totality of the changes that they will make to our everyday life, and are already making, are far too much for individuals like Geoff and many legacy car manufacturers to comprehend.

Just like Kodak was left high and dry as digital photography made film cameras redundant so too will EVs destroy many of the car manufacturers that have become a mainstay of modern life over the past several decades. ICE vehicles just won't and can't compete with a technology that is able to drive autonomously, serve as a back-up power source for your home and for appliances in remote locations, are able to be charged at home at a fraction of the cost of fuelling an ICEV (particularly for those with home solar) and emit virtually no emissions while being driven.

In the same way that almost nobody would consider buying a film camera, audio or video tape player/recorder, a landline phone, mail envelopes and stamps, a Blackberry or Nokia cellphone or a coal range given a few years the idea of purchasing a fossil fuel burning vehicle will seem nonsensical.

Also in regard to the comment on computer chips check out the relevant chapter in Ed Conway's book Material World (https://www.unitybooksauckland.co.nz/shop-new/p/material-world-by-ed-conway). The chapters covering the other materials that we have shaped our world around are also worth reading and while not always painting a rosy picture of our near future the info the book offers is brilliant in helping to understand the interconnectiveness of world politics and material supply chains. Enjoy :cool:

[R650R]

Geoff certainly has issues with just about everything in his life it would seem. Like a drunk uncle that corners you at the family get together with opinions on all manner of things but lacking facts to back up those opinions. What he is referring to in the early stages of his rant is the effects of disruptive technology which EVs definitely are. The totality of the changes that they will make to our everyday life, and are already making, are far too much for individuals like Geoff and many legacy car manufacturers to comprehend.

Just like Kodak was left high and dry as digital photography made film cameras redundant so too will EVs destroy many of the car manufacturers that have become a mainstay of modern life over the past several decades. ICE vehicles just won't and can't compete with a technology that is able to drive autonomously, serve as a back-up power source for your home and for appliances in remote locations, are able to be charged at home at a fraction of the cost of fuelling an ICEV (particularly for those with home solar) and emit virtually no emissions while being driven.

In the same way that almost nobody would consider buying a film camera, audio or video tape player/recorder, a landline phone, mail envelopes and stamps, a Blackberry or Nokia cellphone or a coal range given a few years the idea of purchasing a fossil fuel burning vehicle will seem nonsensical.



Actually heÂ’s just a guy who likes the simple reliability of cheap slightly older cars. He found people liked these mini rants and so using it for view count, who wouldnÂ’t go for easy money.He straight out reads quotes from sources in his vids if you watch properly with a little intelligent reading between the lines.
Himself and other sane people well and truely comprehend the change that is coming. ThatÂ’s why we donÂ’t like it. There is not enough minerals to go around for everyone that has a car now to have an EV, we are already past PEAK lithium/cobalt etc. Awhile ago I posted a speech by a geology expert that was employed by top mining/investment companies ie a guy that WANTS to make big $$$$ out of this if he can. He said it is not physically possibly to upscale to the level of mining needed for ev to go mainstreamÂ…

Digital cameras are a technology that rapidly progressed to be substantially cheaper and easier than film and also offer certain creative advantages. EVÂ’s have not progressed technology wise in any significant factor. Despite mega bucks being thrown at battery research all we are getting is vapourware promises so far.
There is no real reliable autonomous vehicle operation happening. There are some limited applications of it but it is nowhere near a safe mainstream technology yet.
ICE vehicles are cheaper to run long term. On paper they look cheap if your lifestyle permits home solar charging (great if your retired in sunny area and managed to install excess solar capacity) but soon as you start travelling significant distances quickly and using fast charges itÂ’s not cheap. Check out GeoffÂ’s vid where he challenges his ev mate to go lands end uk to John o groats.
My car is 20 years old and has original engine. An ev would have needed 2-3 new batteries at about $5k each by then.
With world war beckoning the ability to move fast and quickly refuel is damn attractive. All over the world ev sales are unwinding for various reasons people donÂ’t actually want them.

[Naki Rat]

The FUD campaign against EVs is alive and well and being driven by those with interests in ongoing fossil fuel use.

This campaign has been initiated to bring some truth and balance t the debate. Sodium ion batteries are already finding their way into EV production (e.g. BYD Seagull) and LiFePO4 battery tech is displacing that with cobalt dependance. Go back 100+ years and similar criticisms will have been levelled at the coming ICEVs but technology soon solved those problems and it will again as EVs become the mainstream personal mobility method.


https://youtu.be/SHZYyHoSJD0?feature=shared

The book I linked to above also covers off most of the criticisms being made about EVs, and the sustainability of most everyday products we have come to rely on. It's worth a read.

Also worth noting that the major conflicts we're seeing currently are in regions that oil supplies come from (as is so often the case) so for a country like NZ the independence from fossil fuels that electrification of our vehicle fleet offers is a great move in terms of energy resilience.

[pritch]

Ninety one Chinese EV manufacturers and only one is making a profit? There may not be ninety one for long.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YbxcvlqMis

[R650R]

Speaking of China…

https://joannenova.com.au/2024/02/china-built-47gw-of-coal-power-last-year-and-is-way-off-track-to-meet-emissions-targets/

China built 47GW of coal power last year and is “way off track” to meet emissions targets

By Jo Nova

If coal is a planet wrecking problem, if it really mattered, about 30 countries are beating themselves up in acts of grandiose public flagellation, while one country is wrecking the planet and nobody cares. The truth is that no one is behaving like they think CO2 is causing a crisis. All over the West everyone wears the hippie-care coat while buying the cheapest fridges, phones and fashion they can get from the global coal furnace. And China nods the nod then keeps on adding coal power plants.

Climate change: China at risk of missing its goals unless it takes drastic action to rein in coal expansion, new research finds
Eric Ng, South China Morning Post

Last year, the Chinese energy sector’s carbon dioxide emissions increased 5.2 per cent, the same as gross domestic product, highlighting a failure to rein in energy-intensive growth, they estimated.

According to the Global Coal Plant Tracker 70 gigawatts of new coal power was built around the world in 2023. Of the 107 countries they tracked, one country built 47 gigawatts. The other 106 countries combined built 22 gigawatts. The distribution of new coal plants is thus:

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2024/02/esg-comes-undone-blackrock-jp-morgan-abandon-climate-action-100/

The biggest climate bullies on the planet just got a bit smaller. There are two monster climate banker clubs in the world, and yesterday, one of them, the “Climate Action 100+” lost three of the six largest asset management funds in the world, namely JP Morgan Chase, State Street and BlackRock.

State Street manages about $3.6 trillion in funds, JP Morgan Chase about $3 or $4 trillion, and BlackRock $10 trillion, so that’s something like $17,000 billion dollars that just left the ranch. The fact that this kind of money was all grouped together in a cabal of any sort is bad enough, but ponder that now, after the biggest fish have left the tank, there’s still $50 trillion left in assets on the inside.

It appears the Climate Action 100+ group had grown too big for its boots — the new Climate Action 100+ “phase 2” strategy expected asset managers to actively hound companies to cut their emissions.

Climate Action 100+ started in 2017 and the day before yesterday it had 700 investors who managed $68 trillion in assets, yet mysteriously has no Wikipedia page (like the ghost that walks?). According to InfluenceWatch it was “conceived by members of the California Public Employees’ Retirement System (CalPERS) in 2016 at the French Mission to the United Nations.” So it was set up by the largest government pension fund in the US in cahoots with the UN in order to use workers money to boss around companies and to force left wing policies on right wing states through a back door.

It’s big brother — the other climate banker cabal called GFANZ — was set up in 2021 by the UN and Mark Carney (former governor of the Bank of England). At one point GFANZ grew to an obscenely unbelievable $130 trillion in “funds under management”, giving it the financial power equivalent to a black hole. The largest 20 national economies in the world have a combined GDP of $87 trillion. So when a collective managing $130 trillion says “jump” there are not many Presidents or Prime Ministers inclined to say “No”. In October 2020, the CEO of BlackRock told the Australian government he wanted them to shut coal plants faster and three weeks later, Scott Morrison and the treasurer signed us up for Net Zero, even though the voters had picked them to do less climate action rather than more.

But it was all a big bluff, as I explained — all the giant funds use other people’s money to bully and cajole boards, ministers, and global leaders into doing things that none of them might want. They were supposed to be investing pension funds to earn money for workers to retire on, instead it looked and smelled a lot like they were squandering the returns in order to prop up socialist ideologies, dodgy companies, and to coerce governments to legislate policies that the voters didn’t vote for.

Larry Fink the CEO of Blackrock, and his pals, turned our pension funds into a leftist activist machine. Thankfully 19 US States fought back by asking the legal bombshell questions about whether these funds were cooperating in a way that breached antitrust laws and neglected their fiduciary duty. Ron deSantis in Florida took $2 billion of state pension funds back from Blackrock. It doesn’t sound like much, but it pulled the string on the big bluff, and threatened to unleash an exodus. Now a year later, many funds are backing away slowly.

Make no mistake, the term ESG or Environmental Social Governance is a dead dog, but all these conglomerate Financial Swamp Monsters like BlackRock et al, will still be buying and leveraging up their renewables investments whenever it suits them. They’ll still be flying to Davos to consort and coordinate behind the scenes.

[R650R]

A recent video on Geoff buys cars channel mentioned a guy getting a software update on his KIA suv.
The chap was a bit bored so he actually read the terms and conditions on touch screen afterwards and looked for changes.
Now installed was an ability to geofence movement and time restrict use of the vehicle remotely. The rose tinted glassed Ami gst us might think it’s anti theft tech. In reality it’s likely a tool for future “climate emergency” lockdowns on petrol powered travel.
The guy is lawyer so he’s now sueing for unconsented restrictions applied to car.

[pete376403]

Not just cars...https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SbrMdp5t3bQ

[R650R]

Not even depths of winter yet and we being told to conserve electricity….

[pritch]

Might as well leave this here as anywhere else...

[roogazza]

Not even depths of winter yet and we being told to conserve electricity….

I see the maree's are trying to hold up progress again !! It's what they do !

[Berries]

I see the maree's are trying to hold up progress again !! It's what they do !
Ka kite.




mf10ch

[R650R]

The gods keep giving us signs why electric vehicles are not great idea….

Now we have a significant solar storm (random ejection of lots of energy from sun) that’s bad enough that trans power are disconnecting part of high voltage grid as a back up incase stuff gets fried.The last notable event was 2003 and the 1867 Carrington event.

[SaferRides]

It's a big one. I can't remember being able to see the aurora from Auckland.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[R650R]

Drivers warned of petrol car shortages as net zero to ‘choke off’ supply
By Matt Oliver, The Telegraph

Car salesmen face a shortage of petrol vehicles under Rishi Sunak’s net zero crackdown, one of Britain’s biggest dealership chains has warned.

Vertu Motors said sales of electric cars had “stalled” in the UK, raising the risk that manufacturers will miss sales targets mandated by law. Under the zero emissions vehicle (ZEV) mandate, 22pc of carmakers’ sales must be electric this year with the target rising annually until it reaches 80pc in 2030.

But with manufacturers risking fines of £15,000 per car for breaching the rules, Vertu warned that many might simply throttle supplies of petrol and diesel cars to artificially boost their compliance.

By Jo Nova

Government plans to badger us into EV’s have hit a hurdle
Things are so bad in the world of electric cars that fields of the cars-of-the-future are appearing at ports in the EU. China has shipped 1.3 million EV’s there in the last quarter but they are piling up in car parks unsold. Countries within the EU are throwing money at customers to get them to buy EV’s, and companies are discounting too, but still it isn’t enough. EV sales fell by 11% across the EU and by 29% in Germany.

Across the Atlantic, something is going wrong in the USA too. The world’s top brand is renting space in shopping centres and airports in America to store the unsold cars.

Car dealers are warning they might not be able to sell many petrol cars, even when buyers walk in to buy them, because they can’t find enough EV buyers so they can meet the mandated target ratio. We might be at the start of a buyer freeze…

By John Varga, The Express UK

Major EU ports are almost full to capacity with Chinese electric vehicles (EVs) that no one wants to buy. A slump in sales across Europe has caused parking lots at the Belgian ports of Antwerp and Zeebrugge to fill up with the Chinese imports.

A spokesman for the Port of Antwerp-Bruges, the second largest in Europe, said: “This is what is happening in all European ports that handle large numbers of cars.”

[R650R]

So who’s up for a class action lawsuit against automakers and app developers selling your data to insurance companies???

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/350318491/car-insurance-premiums-are-rise-what-may-lie-ahead

[pritch]

This new construction is in my neighbourhood. The enemy is that close. A friend who drives an electrical appliance tells me this layout is good. It's drive through so can be used by people towing caravans etc. That's as opposed to the many chargers that require the vehicle to back in to the space. I'll take his word for it.

[SaferRides]

Yes, and people will happily be ripped off using them while they think they are saving the planet.

Unless you mainly charge your EV at home, they make very little economic sense. I'm waiting for the day when BYD can match the price of a Suzuki Swift. It won't be long.


Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pritch]

Unless you mainly charge your EV at home, they make very little economic sense.

In Britain it was worse than that. Their electricity prices were so high that at one point it was cheaper to use petrol. That was Thatcher reaching out from the grave though.

[SaferRides]

In Britain it was worse than that. Their electricity prices were so high that at one point it was cheaper to use petrol. That was Thatcher reaching out from the grave though.Another issue is not enough petrol cars are being built in Europe to meet demand, plus the Chinese are building better EV's cheaper than the European manufacturers.

It's going to be interesting to see how all this pans out.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[R650R]

Yes, and people will happily be ripped off using them while they think they are saving the planet.

Unless you mainly charge your EV at home, they make very little economic sense. I'm waiting for the day when BYD can match the price of a Suzuki Swift. It won't be long.


Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

The Chinese know what we are willing to pay, I don’t foresee any dropping of price. If you look at current prices they are not significantly cheaper than other market offering. By significant I mean 1/3 to 1/2.
80% of cost of an ev is in the battery. Mining lithium and rare earth elements needed isn’t getting cheaper or easier.
Just look at the Chinese motorbikes, people are forking out some large coin on CF Moto and others of unknown long term reliability when they could get a low km name brand 2nd hand for similar money.
China now controls the world’s supply chains for basically all raw materials needed for production.

[pete376403]

Just look at the Chinese motorbikes, people are forking out some large coin on CF Moto and others of unknown long term reliability when they could get a low km name brand 2nd hand for similar money.

A CFmoto 450MT new price $10k. Or you could get a second hand KTM with dubious camshaft reliability (Austrian engine production) - but it has a "brand" name. Now that CFmoto build the KTM engines maybe those problems will be in the past

[SaferRides]

A CFmoto 450MT new price $10k. Or you could get a second hand KTM with dubious camshaft reliability (Austrian engine production) - but it has a "brand" name. Now that CFmoto build the KTM engines maybe those problems will be in the pastThose engines were made by CFMoto. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy Japanese.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pete376403]

Those engines were made by CFMoto. I'd rather pay a bit more and buy Japanese.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

The internet disagrees : "According to available information, the camshaft problems primarily affected KTM engines, specifically their LC8c parallel twin engines found in models like the 790 Duke and 790 Adventure, which were built by KTM in Austria, not by CFMoto, despite some engines sharing similar sharing similar designs; meaning the issue is primarily attributed to KTM, not CFMoto." But I agree, I'd rather buy a Japanese bike. Or British.

[SaferRides]

The internet disagrees : "According to available information, the camshaft problems primarily affected KTM engines, specifically their LC8c parallel twin engines found in models like the 790 Duke and 790 Adventure, which were built by KTM in Austria, not by CFMoto, despite some engines sharing similar sharing similar designs; meaning the issue is primarily attributed to KTM, not CFMoto." But I agree, I'd rather buy a Japanese bike. Or British.
I read the part which says: 'all KTM engines are made by CFMoto..." The 790 was originally made in Austria, then they moved production to China in order to provide a cheaper option after the ridiculously expensive 890 models didn't sell so well.

Apologies to CFMoto.

[onearmedbandit]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Vhi7zldGjBo?si=8atjDgdxkzSxX3gu" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

A very interesting take on the current situation with pure EV's.