CB500X vs. CRF300 Rally for sealed/metal touring

[Odakyu-sen]

I enjoy unsealed-road touring. I am not interested in true off-road or forestry trail or farmland riding. Back in 2013 I bought a new KLR650. I really enjoyed it, but it had a couple of problems. It wasn't happy at cruising over 110 km/h; it would start to drink oil if you went any faster. Two other mates had KLR650s. They decided to cane them along at 130 km/h for a couple of hours and were shocked at how far their oil levels fell in that one afternoon. Don't get me wrong, the bike did have the power to jump up to 130 km/h for overtaking, but it really seemed happiest at 90-100 km/h. If only it didn't drink oil and had a 6th gear to let it cruise at around 115 km/h a little easier...

Now, 9 years later, I am going to get back into relaxed unsealed road touring. The problem is that I need to ride a lot of blacktop to get to these more isolated back-country roads. I need a bike that can effortlessly cruise at 110-120 km/h.

I have my old R6 that I love, so I a want a second bike that will not compete with it. I don't need more than 45 horsepower or so. (The R6 has 100 ponies at the rear wheel, which are plenty for me.) The two top contenders are the Honda CRF 300 Rally and the Honda CB500X (19-inch front wheel version).

I have test-ridden the CB500X and am impressed. I haven't been able to get my hands on a Rally to test ride. I have ridden the CRF300L, but it is way too "dirt bike-ish" for my needs. I suspect that the Rally will also be more "dirt bike-ish" than I need.

Can anyone suggest any other medium- to light-weight motorcycles (sub-200 kg) that would have the comfort and range for unsealed-road touring? I want at least a 19-inch front wheel. I first thought about the DR and DRZ Suzukis, but they have high, plank-like seats, no wind protection and tiny fuel tanks. The 2022 KLR650 is too heavy, lacks a 6th gear, and probably still is a bit of an oil-drinker if you push it beyond 4,500 rpm.

What are your suggestions?

[george formby]

The CB500X is the one you want between your choices for a host of reasons.

Totally left field, there is (or was) a TDM850 for sale on KB. I have one and love riding it on gravel roads. It's not a dirtbike, 18" front wheel and heavy, but some how it is really comfortable and planted. I ride a lot of gravel on sport touring tyre's and never have a problem, much to my amazement.

Way better than a GS with 19" front wheel but heavier and higher seat height.

Pretty sure you can get TKC 80's in the correct size, too.

Quite a few other options, a V-Strom 6fiddly immediately springs to mind.

[Odakyu-sen]

Quite a few other options, a V-Strom 6fiddly immediately springs to mind.

Tried a mate's DL650 but found it really boring to ride. Really competent and efficient, like a little BMW, but without passion. I found the 2021 CB500X to have a lot more character.

I am tempted to wait until the 2022 CB500X (with the improvements to the front end, better headlight, and with more dampening in the un-adjustable rear shock) comes out. The current CB500X has far too little rebound dampening in the rear shock. You pogo over bumps a lot! Even though all the CB500X the world over are LAMS bikes, I don't want a motorcycle with a sledgehammer top end because the R6 already gives me that. I want a mellow mid-ranger.

[nerrrd]

These are rated pretty highly overseas, might be worth a look.

https://benellimotorcycles.co.nz/model/benelli-trk-502-x/

https://benellimotorcycles.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2020/08/TRK-502XMY20-WHITE-SIDE-720x480.png

[george formby]

A Royal Enfield? Worth a lookie.

[Odakyu-sen]

A Royal Enfield? Worth a lookie.

I thought about the Royal Enfield. If I go for a single, then the CRF300 Rally will be it. The CB500X is a very pleasant machine for where I will spend 90% of the time (less than 120 km/h and not requiring the engine to deliver more than 45 ponies).

If I want a steel fist in a velvet glove, I will always have my 2001 R6 (stock except for the revalved forks, Ohlins steering dampener, and Ohlins rear shock with a lightweight spring for NZ bumpy roads).

[george formby]

I thought about the Royal Enfield. If I go for a single, then the CRF300 Rally will be it. The CB500X is a very pleasant machine for where I will spend 90% of the time (less than 120 km/h and not requiring the engine to deliver more than 45 ponies).

If I want a steel fist in a velvet glove, I will always have my 2001 R6 (stock except for the revalved forks, Ohlins steering dampener, and Ohlins rear shock with a lightweight spring for NZ bumpy roads).

I'm pretty sure you will find the CRF 300 a literal pain on the road. A wee single has to work very hard sometimes to stay with the traffic flow then factor in wind and hills. That will lead to higher maintenance compared to a multi and a Vulcan death grip on the throttle.

I suspect it would be brilliant on gravel, my 2t trailies are hilarious and the CRF is a modern take on the trailie. My DT 230 is ball park 40hp and ends up being hard work on the highways. It will do it but it's not in it's happy place.

[george formby]

Some bedtime reading.

https://advrider.com/f/threads/crf300l-rally-owners.1500319/

https://advrider.com/f/threads/2019-2021-honda-cb500x.1353357/

[actungbaby]

Tried a mate's DL650 but found it really boring to ride. Really competent and efficient, like a little BMW, but without passion. I found the 2021 CB500X to have a lot more character.

I am tempted to wait until the 2022 CB500X (with the improvements to the front end, better headlight, and with more dampening in the un-adjustable rear shock) comes out. The current CB500X has far too little rebound dampening in the rear shock. You pogo over bumps a lot! Even though all the CB500X the world over are LAMS bikes, I don't want a motorcycle with a sledgehammer top end because the R6 already gives me that. I want a mellow mid-ranger.Theres talk honda brining out transalp 650 the org was popular cult bike appretly

Sent from my CPH1941 using Tapatalk

[Odakyu-sen]

I'm pretty sure you will find the CRF 300 a literal pain on the road. A wee single has to work very hard sometimes to stay with the traffic flow then factor in wind and hills. That will lead to higher maintenance compared to a multi and a Vulcan death grip on the throttle.

I suspect it would be brilliant on gravel, my 2t trailies are hilarious and the CRF is a modern take on the trailie. My DT 230 is ball park 40hp and ends up being hard work on the highways. It will do it but it's not in it's happy place.

I think you are very likely right. The CRF300 Rally is more "dirt-focused" than I really need. After coming off the R6, I took the CRF300L for a test ride and it was like riding something out of a cornflakes packet. It was a toy. It really had no power beyond 110 km/h. On the R6 even in 6th gear, when you open the throttle at 110 km/h she starts to surge forward, and the acceleration just builds and builds. Before you know it you are heading north of 150 km/h and she hasn't even reached her power band.

The CB500X was very nice to ride. It felt really natural straight away. I only want to tour on roads like the Danseys Pass, Molsworth and the unsealed roads in the Coromandel. I want to go touring on these kinds of roads: https://www.google.com/maps/@-41.5131684,175.5055688,3a,75y,29.25h,88.41t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sG-75FaPiyv9AKiNcohpxkA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[JATZ]

I know a guy with a CRF and his description of the bike is the same as yours. Suspension needs a bit of work too.
What about a Triumph scrambler or something similar. If you're only planning on gravel roads they'd work just fine.

[Odakyu-sen]

I know a guy with a CRF and his description of the bike is the same as yours. Suspension needs a bit of work too.
What about a Triumph scrambler or something similar. If you're only planning on gravel roads they'd work just fine.

The CB500X is cheaper and has rising-rate suspension (although the rear shock is rebound under-damped and unadjustable). The Triumph Scrambler would be nice if you wanted the "retro" look.

[Gremlin]

Welcome to the land of compromise. Once you've actually picked a bike, you'll need to figure out a compromise on tyres, helmets, gear etc etc.

On one hand, you describe the CRF300 as gutless and the DL650 boring, but then don't want more than 100hp like your R6 (ie, more premium bikes). You've identified the budget suspension in the CB500X, but in reality, even something like the Tenere 700 suspension is criticised.

So, you've got a few odd balls like the KTM 390 Adventure (actually quite popular in its segment), or the KTM 790 Adventure (non R to be less dirt biased). No-one has mentioned the large range BMW has (I skimmed OK, so I might have missed something), from the older stuff like the F650 Dakar, to the newer 6-700cc bikes. Suzuki has the DR650 (probably too dirt for you, and a competitor to KLR650 with a different twist) or the DL. Kawasaki has the Versys in a few capacities.

If I was you, I'd ditch the R6 (but you probably love it having owned it from new) and go for a KTM 1090R - I own one. Absolutely ridiculous on sealed roads, especially if you're trying to lay down 125hp on knobblies but can equally cruise down the gravel... and by cruise I mean sideways at every opportunity. You'll understand if you ride one :laugh: If you find your rubber lasting too long for your liking, KTM offers a 1290R with 160hp ish.

[Bass]

If I was you, I'd ditch the R6 (but you probably love it having owned it from new) and go for a KTM 1090R - I own one. Absolutely ridiculous on sealed roads, especially if you're trying to lay down 125hp on knobblies but can equally cruise down the gravel... and by cruise I mean sideways at every opportunity. You'll understand if you ride one :laugh: If you find your rubber lasting too long for your liking, KTM offers a 1290R with 160hp ish.

When I told you, a decade or two ago, that I foresaw knobblies in your future, I really had no idea...............

[Gremlin]

When I told you, a decade or two ago, that I foresaw knobblies in your future, I really had no idea...............
Never say never... learned that several times over...

[Odakyu-sen]

Welcome to the land of compromise. Once you've actually picked a bike, you'll need to figure out a compromise on tyres, helmets, gear etc etc.

On one hand, you describe the CRF300 as gutless and the DL650 boring, but then don't want more than 100hp like your R6 (ie, more premium bikes). You've identified the budget suspension in the CB500X, but in reality, even something like the Tenere 700 suspension is criticised.

So, you've got a few odd balls like the KTM 390 Adventure (actually quite popular in its segment), or the KTM 790 Adventure (non R to be less dirt biased). No-one has mentioned the large range BMW has (I skimmed OK, so I might have missed something), from the older stuff like the F650 Dakar, to the newer 6-700cc bikes. Suzuki has the DR650 (probably too dirt for you, and a competitor to KLR650 with a different twist) or the DL. Kawasaki has the Versys in a few capacities.

If I was you, I'd ditch the R6 (but you probably love it having owned it from new) and go for a KTM 1090R - I own one. Absolutely ridiculous on sealed roads, especially if you're trying to lay down 125hp on knobblies but can equally cruise down the gravel... and by cruise I mean sideways at every opportunity. You'll understand if you ride one :laugh: If you find your rubber lasting too long for your liking, KTM offers a 1290R with 160hp ish.

My gut impression from the CB500X is good. Over 40 years of motorcycling has taught me that if I get a good feeling about a motorcycle within 30 seconds of test riding it, then we're off to a good start. Just like when I bought my R6 back in 2001. At the time I was considering the Kawasaki 636 (runs on 95 petrol, 6,000-km oil-change interval) but not the R6 (runs on 91 petrol, 10,000-km oil-change interval). All the bike magazines talked about how "track-focused" the R6 was. I wanted a motorcycle that I could also tour on, like my '92 Ducati 900ss. On the day, Red Baron didn't have a demo 636, but they let me try the R6.

The R6 had a Massey-Ferguson-like seat (so wide!), two odometers, and a clock! I fell in love with it within the 1st minute. It was so tractable (compared with the Ducati twin), pulling smothly in top gear from as low as 3,500 rpm without shuddering. It was well mannered from 4,000 to 6,500 rpm (like Clark Kent), but started ripping off its business suit to reveal the tight blue Spandex underneath from 8,000 rpm, and then wanted to smash from 11,000 rpm (redline at 15,500 rpm). "This will make an awsome sports tourer!" I thought. (And it did.) (The 100 ponies at the rear wheel helped a lot in overtaking.)
(Footnote: the stock R6 suspension was shite. I got the forks revalved, fitted an Ohlins steering dampener, and an Ohlins rear shock with a lighter spring. Perfection!)

Getting back to the CB500X, I think it is the best bike for what I want to do with it: tour leisurely on unsealed roads.

[pete376403]

Have you actually tried a KLR? You mention the oil issue, that WAS a thing on the first of the Gen IIs when run at higher revs for extended periods but you also say you want to cruise at 115ish which is really in the KLRS happy zone - 5000 rpm or so. The lack of 6th gear that gets complained of isn't an issue when the torque band is dead flat from about 2k to redline, if you want to drop the revs a bit go up a tooth on the front sprocket. It seems the people who bag the KLR the most are the people who have never had one.

[Odakyu-sen]

Have you actually tried a KLR? You mention the oil issue, that WAS a thing on the first of the Gen IIs when run at higher revs for extended periods but you also say you want to cruise at 115ish which is really in the KLRS happy zone - 5000 rpm or so. The lack of 6th gear that gets complained of isn't an issue when the torque band is dead flat from about 2k to redline, if you want to drop the revs a bit go up a tooth on the front sprocket. It seems the people who bag the KLR the most are the people who have never had one.

I bought a new KLR in 2013. I liked it a lot. It had everything all there, right out of the box (unlike the DR650 or the DRZs), namely: screen, wind protection for hands, big tank, comfy seat. It handled wickedly well below 90 km/h on wet, slimy roads (with the dual-sport tires, no less).

But the KLR had its drawbacks. Its maximum sustainable speed was 100 km/h. At above 110 km/h the suspension started to wallow. Also at above 100 km/h she started to drink oil. I don't think the 2022 KLR rectified this problem. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX14t9AmOoE
A 6th gear and an oil-tight engine would have been nice.

After a year I sold my KLR. It was a good bike in many regards, but I would not buy another one.

[pete376403]

I bought a new KLR in 2013. I liked it a lot. It had everything all there, right out of the box (unlike the DR650 or the DRZs), namely: screen, wind protection for hands, big tank, comfy seat. It handled wickedly well below 90 km/h on wet, slimy roads (with the dual-sport tires, no less).

But the KLR had its drawbacks. Its maximum sustainable speed was 100 km/h. At above 110 km/h the suspension started to wallow. Also at above 100 km/h she started to drink oil. I don't think the 2022 KLR rectified this problem. See https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX14t9AmOoE
A 6th gear and an oil-tight engine would have been nice.

After a year I sold my KLR. It was a good bike in many regards, but I would not buy another one.

My '08 was an oil burner. The 685 piston has totally cured that and added a wee bit of power into the bargain. Yeah the stock suspension is a bit mushy - much like the R6 in that respect. The 2014 facelift model got much better springs and revised damping. I have put facelift springs in the (KX USD) forks and on the back and have improved it way beyond my ability. The Brass Monkey trips I have done with it (lots) have been in the company of much faster bikes and the group cruising speed is usually in the 115 - 120 range with excursions into much more than that - I normally give it away around 120, knowing that they will never been more than a few minutes ahead at the next town

[ducatilover]

I thought the CRF was a big bag of compromise.
A friend is selling a near new KTM 390 Adventure, that's a really nice bike. Seems well thought out, light and comfy enough.

[F5 Dave]

My gut impression from the CB500X is good. Over 40 years of motorcycling has taught me that if I get a good feeling about a motorcycle within 30 seconds of test riding it, then we're off to a good start. Just like when I bought my R6 back in 2001. At the time I was considering the Kawasaki 636 (runs on 95 petrol, 6,000-km oil-change interval) but not the R6 (runs on 91 petrol, 10,000-km oil-change interval). All the bike magazines talked about how "track-focused" the R6 was. I wanted a motorcycle that I could also tour on, like my '92 Ducati 900ss. On the day, Red Baron didn't have a demo 636, but they let me try the R6.

The R6 had a Massey-Ferguson-like seat (so wide!), two odometers, and a clock! I fell in love with it within the 1st minute. It was so tractable (compared with the Ducati twin), pulling smothly in top gear from as low as 3,500 rpm without shuddering. It was well mannered from 4,000 to 6,500 rpm (like Clark Kent), but started ripping off its business suit to reveal the tight blue Spandex underneath from 8,000 rpm, and then wanted to smash from 11,000 rpm (redline at 15,500 rpm). "This will make an awsome sports tourer!" I thought. (And it did.) (The 100 ponies at the rear wheel helped a lot in overtaking.)
(Footnote: the stock R6 suspension was shite. I got the forks revalved, fitted an Ohlins steering dampener, and an Ohlins rear shock with a lighter spring. Perfection!)

Getting back to the CB500X, I think it is the best bike for what I want to do with it: tour leisurely on unsealed roads.
Buy the bike you want. You've made up your mind, enjoy.

Then you can regret at leisure. I mean a *onda?
Maybe you can scrape the tank logo off with a rock and apply some lurid MX decals?:devil2:
Kidding.
Mostly.
I mean not about the rock, obviously.

[Odakyu-sen]

Buy the bike you want. You've made up your mind, enjoy.

Then you can regret at leisure. I mean a *onda?
Maybe you can scrape the tank logo off with a rock and apply some lurid MX decals?:devil2:
Kidding.
Mostly.
I mean not about the rock, obviously.

My first motorcyle (50 step-thru) in 1977 was a Honda. I admire their engineering. Their design can be a bit naff sometimes.

I want a motorcyle that won't compete head-on with my aging R6. I only want to leisurely tour on unsealed roads; not do serious off-road stuff. The CB500X appears to tick all the right boxes and has given me a good first impression. I know the rear suspension is rubbish, but if it does the job, I'll be happy.

I'm not in a hurry to rush out and buy one. The Molesworth will still be around long after I'm gone.

[F5 Dave]

Do it, why not?

But, why stop at two bikes? Have you ridden a modern trailie? Loads of fun on another Sunday. Good practice for the bigger bikes too. 60 is the new 50.

But wait, why stop at 4? (Heck 3 can be discussed later) a Trials bike will bring you new skills.

[Odakyu-sen]

Do it, why not?

But, why stop at two bikes? Have you ridden a modern trailie? Loads of fun on another Sunday. Good practice for the bigger bikes too. 60 is the new 50.

But wait, why stop at 4? (Heck 3 can be discussed later) a Trials bike will bring you new skills.

Two motorcycles are enough for me. I actually prefer my "2-stroke moped of the sky" see my video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrzLBtdy938 It's like motorcycling, but with travel in 3 dimensions rather than the single dimensional line segment that you would call a "road."

[F5 Dave]

If it doesn't rain too much I'm off to ride one of my dirtbike tomorrow. Lithe scalpel with purpose.

[george formby]

a Trials bike will bring you new skills.

And shatter any illusions of dirt competency the first couple of rides.

I love my wee trials bike.:love:

[Gremlin]

Two motorcycles are enough for me.
I thought that too... then I bought a "cheap" Aprilia to have some fun on, after it moved out of the cheap category (older Italians, damn I'm naive) and breaking down on me, once fixed, it was traded on a brand new bike.

Now I have 3... ;)

[Oxtail]

I'm taking the CB500X out for a test ride next week as it appeals to me as well, I'll be using mainly for tarmac but with regular weekends away on unsealed roads like Molesworth etc. It does seem to tick both boxes, but there is also the NC750X if the 500 feels underpowered...

Always thought my next bike would be a Triumph but am seriously considering the above as it gives more options and appears better value than a Triumph Scrambler.

Ox

[Odakyu-sen]

In the end, I didn't get the Hondas. I instead bought a 2018 Kawasaki Versys-X 300 twin. This is a very under-rated motorcycle. There are 3 things I want to change on the Versys.
1. Raise the gearing by replacing the stock 14-tooth drive sprocket with a 15-tooth one.
2. Add a windscreen extender to flick the airstream up out of my face (noisy as!)
3. Look at fork emulators to take the harshness out of the stock dampening-rod forks.

The rest of the bike is fine. It came with a lot of accessories. It handles very well through tight stuff. This morning riding over Mt. Messenger was a breeze!