Some sense at last!

[Navy Boy]

At last someone prepared to speak some sense about the road toll :niceone:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/127466811/safety-upgrades-must-happen-urgently-to-improve-car-safety-for-all

SH6 between Blenheim and Nelson is a cracking example of how the 'Speed kills' mantra simply isn't working.

[pritch]

At last someone prepared to speak some sense about the road toll :niceone:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/127466811/safety-upgrades-must-happen-urgently-to-improve-car-safety-for-all

SH6 between Blenheim and Nelson is a cracking example of how the 'Speed kills' mantra simply isn't working.

On one of my trips down there the radar detector went off in the Lewis pass heading west, it didn't go off again for three days, until Dunedin on the way north. SH6 down the west coast is a motorcyclists dream, but the average car driver probably isn't speeding, enforcement would be running at a loss. Unlike the McKenzie country where the police tend to be active on the long straights.

[James Deuce]

Did my first big trip on a bike in a long time and I was pleasantly surprised at how courteous drivers of all types were. The state of the roads is pretty dire though. Tar bleed, grit, pea gravel, wheel eating potholes, suddenly disappearing road surfaces and road works that have a sign-posted start but nothing to say that they have finished and normal service has resumed. 20 kms later one has a brain fart that makes one wonder if one should still be doing 30 kph. There will always be turkeys behind the controls of a vehicle who should never have ever gone there. But it is very obvious that there is no commitment to the quality of roading. I am sure a large number of incidents could be avoided if the road surface had grip instead of a sign that says "Slippery When Wet."

[merv]

Did my first big trip on a bike in a long time and I was pleasantly surprised at how courteous drivers of all types were. The state of the roads is pretty dire though. Tar bleed, grit, pea gravel, wheel eating potholes, suddenly disappearing road surfaces and road works that have a sign-posted start but nothing to say that they have finished and normal service has resumed. 20 kms later one has a brain fart that makes one wonder if one should still be doing 30 kph. There will always be turkeys behind the controls of a vehicle who should never have ever gone there. But it is very obvious that there is no commitment to the quality of roading. I am sure a large number of incidents could be avoided if the road surface had grip instead of a sign that says "Slippery When Wet."

Everywhere I go, the roads are in poor condition whether it be town or country. Given the rising cost of council rates it seems weird how the money goes nowhere these days and they are all crying out for more money to do things. I can understand the tax on fuel income will have diminished in covid times hurting highway maintenance funds (and contribution to council road maintenance), but the decline in maintenance was going on long before we knew what covid was. So why is that?

[pete376403]

Everywhere I go, the roads are in poor condition whether it be town or country. Given the rising cost of council rates it seems weird how the money goes nowhere these days and they are all crying out for more money to do things. I can understand the tax on fuel income will have diminished in covid times hurting highway maintenance funds (and contribution to council road maintenance), but the decline in maintenance was going on long before we knew what covid was. So why is that?

Meanwhile the perfectly ok surface of River Road (Upper Hutt) is being scraped up and relaid again because, apparently it's two years since it was last done, whether needed or not. Perhaps being fairly close to Fulton Hogans base in Petone makes it worthwhile for them

[merv]

Meanwhile the perfectly ok surface of River Road (Upper Hutt) is being scraped up and relaid again because, apparently it's two years since it was last done, whether needed or not. Perhaps being fairly close to Fulton Hogans base in Petone makes it worthwhile for them

Crikey :doh:

[jellywrestler]

At last someone prepared to speak some sense about the road toll :niceone:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/127466811/safety-upgrades-must-happen-urgently-to-improve-car-safety-for-all

SH6 between Blenheim and Nelson is a cracking example of how the 'Speed kills' mantra simply isn't working.

aussie doesn't have windy hilly roads as the norm, we do however.

[FJRider]

On one of my trips down there the radar detector went off in the Lewis pass heading west, it didn't go off again for three days, until Dunedin on the way north. SH6 down the west coast is a motorcyclists dream, but the average car driver probably isn't speeding, enforcement would be running at a loss. Unlike the McKenzie country where the police tend to be active on the long straights.

The west Coast of the South Island is patrolled (away from the larger towns) mostly by double cab 4WD's ... and in the McKenzie area ... they used to use cars with a turbo. Now it's just reliant on weight of numbers of Patrol cars.

The only way out of the coast is from the north or south. The only way out of the McKenzie area is north, south, or east.

The time of day ... speeds that are being done ... and the officers enthusiasm to enforce the law ... are the basis of getting a ticket in either regions. If they get your number ... :msn-wink:

[Gremlin]

I'm sure I saw stats somewhere that a majority of crashes occurred below the speed limit. Obviously not something loudly broadcasted by NZTA. Part of me can't help but think that lowering the speed limit is partially an effort to start skewing those numbers, and go look! Speed kills!

Obviously the major fact espoused is that then when a crash occurs, less speed involved means less kinetic energy, less serious injuries etc - sure, you can't argue with physics. The problem with that thinking? Ambulance at the bottom of the cliff... the crash is expected to occur, and now we're just trying to lessen the severe impact/consequences post crash, not work on preventing the crash, or is it in the too hard basket?

While they continue to be fixated on speed (or bribed/budgeted to) which they have been for decades... it won't fix anything - as now evidenced that it's doing very little to the stats. Doing 120kph down a straight road in good condition without dense traffic? Safe. Watching a driver unable to maintain 60kph on a lesser highway (still had a highway designation, but winding/rolling) in 100kph zone and clearly the driver had no concept of the link between steering wheel and car direction? Downright scary. Which one is getting the ticket? How would authorities solve the 60kph problem? Well under current thinking, the road is dangerous, and therefore all drivers should be slowed down...

Cater for the lowest common denominator and you'll eventually find a better idiot.

On 2/1 I was poking my nose up dead end gravel roads east of Te Kuiti. Lots of fun, albeit hot work. Came out onto the sealed roads, and with the temperature in the 25-30 bracket, the roads are melting. Not just a stone or two, in some places it was almost rivers of liquid tar, road ripped up by vehicle wheels. Worst was the more rubbery looking pieces, that were solid or squishy, and you had no idea until the bike was sliding on it. I was happy to get back onto the gravel, because at least it doesn't melt. While on those sealed roads, there is a dirt bike, rider with no helmet, pillion had helmet, but no foot pegs. No other gear obviously. Yay, that's going to count as a road statistic when the dumbarses crash.

[F5 Dave]

I've seen some dumb arse shit driving today. Some clown decided to pass me out of the melling carpark on the wrong side of the traffic island doing about 90. I was in the van, he could have had no possible idea if someone was coming. This was less than metres from that big arse crash on sh2 today. Then several other instances

[pritch]

I've seen some dumb arse shit driving today. Some clown decided to pass me out of the melling carpark on the wrong side of the traffic island doing about 90. I was in the van, he could have had no possible idea if someone was coming. This was less than metres from that big arse crash on sh2 today. Then several other instances

It's getting close to the full moon. That always has a negative effect on the driving. And no, I'm not joking.

[R650R]

Meanwhile the perfectly ok surface of River Road (Upper Hutt) is being scraped up and relaid again because, apparently it's two years since it was last done, whether needed or not. Perhaps being fairly close to Fulton Hogans base in Petone makes it worthwhile for them

Roads are only tar sealed to prevent water getting in and destroying the base construction. The chip is there in a token effort to hold tar together and provide some traction depending on grade of stone.
What may look good to the naked untrained eye might just be one decent prolonged heavy rain storm away from a pot holed nightmare. High traffic volumes and geological movements all contribute to minor cracks and failures that eventually start letting water in under neath....
A lot of central plateau and Taupo area is built on soft pumice from centuries ago eruptions and is always moving. You need to drive a heavy truck though where the smallest changes are noticeable from the night before even hauling the exact same load to feel it.

[R650R]

Everywhere I go, the roads are in poor condition whether it be town or country. Given the rising cost of council rates it seems weird how the money goes nowhere these days and they are all crying out for more money to do things. I can understand the tax on fuel income will have diminished in covid times hurting highway maintenance funds (and contribution to council road maintenance), but the decline in maintenance was going on long before we knew what covid was. So why is that?

Cause their trying to “save” the planet. The only way they meet their “emissions” targets is to do less work. Hence why as of late grass verges on country roads are shockingly high. Sometimes that’s unavoidable like lately where we’ve had lots of rain plus warm temps but mostly it’s because some brain washed greenie councillor will risk another dead/maimed biker to meet their kpi’s.

Maybe once a horde of the Whiney Lycra brigade get a pelaton taken out by a rogue sheep they will mow verges and put up signs telling sheep to stay 1.5m away from roads

[R650R]

Paying attention to your surroundings is best thing though for safety on roads or workplace. Watch this two car crash turn into eight or so over multiple incidents. No ones really speeding just not paying attention....


https://youtu.be/-9yqXzZ16ns

[jellywrestler]

Paying attention to your surroundings is best thing though for safety on roads or workplace. Watch this two car crash turn into eight or so over multiple incidents. No ones really speeding just not paying attention....

1st driver could have hit their hazard lights, would have helped but tough to think when you've just had a crash... note the truck drivers flashing brake lights etc, i've giot a high top van and people can't see what's in front of me so always tap the brakes a few times when slowing.

[nerrrd]

I agree that every practical measure that can be taken should be taken to improve road safety, but cost will always be the limiting factor here. As a country we seem to have reached the limits of what is practically affordable in infrastructure and service provision long ago, unless the endless parade of companies or institutions saying they need more funding to provide said infrastructure or service are lying.

I don’t see the emphasis on speed limits as futile, over time it may well be successful in modifying drivers’ attitudes and take some of the impatience out of the equation (which is the main issue I see on a daily basis in my travels.) Like with seatbelts, or drink driving (attitudes have changed towards both over time.)

No doubt there are many drivers out there who are competent enough to drive or ride at speeds on or above the speed limit, the problem seems to happen when they encounter traffic which isn’t, and too many end up making extremely poor decisions in trying to pass. That slower traffic is always going to be there, regardless of the speed limit.

I think we need to ask ourselves what is it really that makes being held up by slower traffic so frustrating, and why that seems to override normally sensible decision making in the heat of the moment.

[jellywrestler]

I think we need to ask ourselves what is it really that makes being held up by slower traffic so frustrating, and why that seems to override normally sensible decision making in the heat of the moment.
being stuck behind trucks with no vision off into the distance is often frustrating, the only warning you often get is when they suddenly react, rather than being able to see way in front of you. The new speed limit between blenheim and nelson means there's no speed difference between trucks and motorists so few opportunities to get past.

[F5 Dave]

In a similar vein today just been over the rapa and bottom of takas. A Sprint has appeared behind me a min ago. Paul in front overtakes when we finally get to straight. I've been indicating and watching my mirror. I'm overtaking following Paul and see Matey pull out behind me.

I'm swinging my torso left and right.looking to see what is happening ahead of Paul either side. I call time and pull back in and see Sprint is accelerating. He wizzes past me and goes to take Paul who has now moved right to the left noticing him and also the car who is indicating and braking to turn into Kaitoki Gardens. He swerves and just misses the car lucky that Paul saw him coming and moved saving his arse.

All to get another car ahead.

His version is now probably now on social media blaming everyone else.

And that is what is wrong with male aggression and vehicles. The more I raced the more respect I had for the road.

[FJRider]

... SH6 between Blenheim and Nelson is a cracking example of how the 'Speed kills' mantra simply isn't working.

Have you actually considered ... that the posted speed limit for ANY portion of ANY roadway in NZ is actually irrelevant .. ??? :laugh:

And have you considered that ... often the speed limit on many parts (and in some cases ... most parts) of those roads is actually dangerous to drive at the posted legal speed limit for those roads ??? :laugh:

And have you considered ... that traveling in such places at "legal" speeds ... you CAN be charged with dangerous driving ... ??? :laugh:


I know SH6 pretty well ... and there are plenty of places on it ... that any speed over 50 km/hr (in/on ANY vehicle) IS dangerous.

I bet you don't know the difference between "Dangerous Driving" and "Exceeding posted speed limits" ... The two are NOT the same.

The Highway Patrol Policy is there (sometimes) to enforce speed limits ... but exceeding the posted speed limits are not always dangerous as such. But that is the starting point of enforcement policy.



One SIMPLE fact that you should seriously consider ... and ... take time to think about. The MAJORITY of the deaths on New Zealand roads and highways ... occurred at LESS than the LEGAL SPEED LIMIT for the roads they were on.


SPEED Doesn't (always) kill. But ... stupidity does it more often. And the really sad part of that bit is ... the stupid aren't usually/always the one's killed.

Go figure ...


And if YOU can stick to the legal speed limit for the entire distance between Blenheim and Nelson ... you are a better rider than I am.

[FJRider]

being stuck behind trucks with no vision off into the distance is often frustrating, the only warning you often get is when they suddenly react, rather than being able to see way in front of you. The new speed limit between blenheim and nelson means there's no speed difference between trucks and motorists so few opportunities to get past.

If you aren't familiar with the road ... it seems worse. Back off a 100 meters or so ... you'll see more of the road ahead of the truck. If you still cant get/see past the truck for/at a safe place to pass ... you'll still be safer and no better off if you were right up the trucks ass.

You profile say's you have a Suzuki ... ;)

[george formby]

If you aren't familiar with the road ... it seems worse. Back off a 100 meters or so ... you'll see more of the road ahead of the truck. If you still cant get/see past the truck for/at a safe place to pass ... you'll still be safer and no better off if you were right up the trucks ass.

You profile say's you have a Suzuki ... ;)

Must admit, more often than not if I hang back from a truck and stay in his mirrors I get waved past at a safe point. Some good truck drivers out there.

[James Deuce]

I went for a nice ride this afternoon except for the twat in the VW Tiguan near Parkvale mushrooms. I indicated to overtake him so he straddled the centreline to "prevent" me from doing so. I did nearly 1500 kms in three days the week after New Year and didn't see anything like that in the boondocks or major highways. Where do these people come from? Is that not more dangerous than me overtaking him? I suspect that those sort of attitudes feed our stats more than my enjoyment of a swift overtake.

[F5 Dave]

The problem is people are cunts

[Scuba_Steve]

Meanwhile the perfectly ok surface of River Road (Upper Hutt) is being scraped up and relaid again because, apparently it's two years since it was last done, whether needed or not. Perhaps being fairly close to Fulton Hogans base in Petone makes it worthwhile for them

Pretty sure it's only a year old. Bloody sure it was re-sealed same time last year.

[James Deuce]

Pretty sure it's only a year old. Bloody sure it was re-sealed same time last year.
Yes, that's true, but up against the hill is a fairly deep swamp that used to drain into the river. It now drains through the strata under the road so the road bed along that stretch needs regular levelling to prevent the surface layer from breaking.

[roogazza]

I went for a nice ride this afternoon except for the twat in the VW Tiguan near Parkvale mushrooms. I indicated to overtake him so he straddled the centreline to "prevent" me from doing so. I did nearly 1500 kms in three days the week after New Year and didn't see anything like that in the boondocks or major highways. Where do these people come from? Is that not more dangerous than me overtaking him? I suspect that those sort of attitudes feed our stats more than my enjoyment of a swift overtake.

People like that deserve their wing mirror to fall off ! :bash:

[malcy25]

AKL-CHC-AKL return for a race meeting.

We watched 3-4 instances of passing on yellow's, blind brows, or just couldn't keep on the right side of the road.

Kaikoura coast, chip seal tar that was so slick in the wet that I couldn't or more correctly wouldn't stay in touch with the truck ahead of me and had me puckering at times it looks so slippery.

Chip seal that is so fresh they still have signs out and the itls already getting polished or tearing out.

Yeah, speed is an issue......

[pete376403]

Yes, that's true, but up against the hill is a fairly deep swamp that used to drain into the river. It now drains through the strata under the road so the road bed along that stretch needs regular levelling to prevent the surface layer from breaking.
So if the road had been designed properly by engineers (instead of accountants) the required drainage would have been put in place before the road bad perhaps?

[Moi]

So if the road had been designed properly by engineers (instead of accountants) the required drainage would have been put in place before the road bad perhaps?

The road should have been built on the eastern side of the river on top of a proper stop bank...

[pete376403]

The road should have been built on the eastern side of the river on top of a proper stop bank...But that would have required land from St Pats and the Heretaunga Golf Club - both organisations would have wanted far more than the council would (or could) pay. I recall the mayor of the time crowing about how they saved money for fill by widening Wallaceville Hill road at the same time and reusing the dirt. The whole thing was about cheap, if you dont count the 11 or so people killed on the road in the first year, plus more in subsequent years, then the major reconstructions since then which will NEVER fix the Moonshine bridge bottleneck (and the ongoing resurfacings)

[Moi]

But that would have required land from St Pats and the Heretaunga Golf Club - both organisations would have wanted far more than the council would (or could) pay. I recall the mayor of the time crowing about how they saved money for fill by widening Wallaceville Hill road at the same time and reusing the dirt. The whole thing was about cheap, if you dont count the 11 or so people killed on the road in the first year, plus more in subsequent years, then the major reconstructions since then which will NEVER fix the Moonshine bridge bottleneck (and the ongoing resurfacings)

I thought it had been built and paid for by NZTA or Land Transport or whoever was the Gov't organisation. Knew folks whose property backed onto the golf course and they were of the opinion that it should have been built on a stopbank on the eastern side but wasn't / wouldn't be / couldn't be because of the golf course, rather than St Pat's who only farmed down by the river.

Still comes back to interference by interested party/ies over-ruling the common good.

[Swoop]

I think we need to ask ourselves what is it really that makes being held up by slower traffic so frustrating, and why that seems to override normally sensible decision making in the heat of the moment.

With the current logic of lowering speed limits, there will be increased instances of frustrated road users. The net result will be the same amount of road deaths, but our idiots in charge will fail to acknowledge that.

[pritch]

His version is now probably now on social media blaming everyone else. And that is what is wrong with male aggression and vehicles. The more I raced the more respect I had for the road.

Thus spake Dr Spiegel, nothng in human evolution prepared us for motor vehicles. In most people there is a lack of connection between actions and consequences until about age 25. With motor vehicles there is no age limit, that connection may not develop at all.

[pritch]

So if the road had been designed properly by engineers (instead of accountants) the required drainage would have been put in place before the road bad perhaps?

Don't give the engineers too much credit. There is a railway underpass not a million miles from here. The road goes under the railway line, just to make it clear. TPTB decided it would be nice to have more headroom for heavy vehicles. I'm assuming engineers were involved, but anyhoo the road was lowered - into the water table.
Brilliant - just fucking brilliant.

[Navy Boy]

Have you actually considered ... that the posted speed limit for ANY portion of ANY roadway in NZ is actually irrelevant .. ??? :laugh:

And have you considered that ... often the speed limit on many parts (and in some cases ... most parts) of those roads is actually dangerous to drive at the posted legal speed limit for those roads ??? :laugh:

And have you considered ... that traveling in such places at "legal" speeds ... you CAN be charged with dangerous driving ... ??? :laugh:


I know SH6 pretty well ... and there are plenty of places on it ... that any speed over 50 km/hr (in/on ANY vehicle) IS dangerous.

I bet you don't know the difference between "Dangerous Driving" and "Exceeding posted speed limits" ... The two are NOT the same.

The Highway Patrol Policy is there (sometimes) to enforce speed limits ... but exceeding the posted speed limits are not always dangerous as such. But that is the starting point of enforcement policy.



One SIMPLE fact that you should seriously consider ... and ... take time to think about. The MAJORITY of the deaths on New Zealand roads and highways ... occurred at LESS than the LEGAL SPEED LIMIT for the roads they were on.


SPEED Doesn't (always) kill. But ... stupidity does it more often. And the really sad part of that bit is ... the stupid aren't usually/always the one's killed.

Go figure ...


And if YOU can stick to the legal speed limit for the entire distance between Blenheim and Nelson ... you are a better rider than I am.

All good points mate - My concern about that stretch of SH6 is that the lower limits now make things even more soporific. Cars don't bother to overtake a truck doing 80-90Km/hr which makes performing a safe overtake even more of a challenge. Believe me when I say that I don't manage to stick to the speed limit all the way along that stretch of road ;)

I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. ;) I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

[FJRider]

All good points mate - My concern about that stretch of SH6 is that the lower limits now make things even more soporific. Cars don't bother to overtake a truck doing 80-90Km/hr which makes performing a safe overtake even more of a challenge. Believe me when I say that I don't manage to stick to the speed limit all the way along that stretch of road ;)

If you don't stick to the speed limit ... overtaking (for you) shouldn't be an issue.

Those that travel at slower speeds are more likely to survive an accident. An accident I might add ... that is probably due to their own stupidity and/or lack of self control. I just hope it doesn't involve the truck driver.

There are plenty of places in NZ that has roads that make overtaking a slower vehicle difficult. Regardless of the posted speed limit in those areas. Why pick on THIS road .. ???


I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. ;) I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

I am sure the NEW speed limits in this area will be WELL enforced. Infringement notices are issued on the basis/principal of km's OVER the posted speed limit. 40 km/hr over the the posted speed limit ... and you're walking. Those fines (and license loss) you used to get at 140 km/hr ... you'll get at 130.



The ball (as they say) is now in your court. I hope it goes well for you.

[caspernz]

I just wish that the powers that be would accept that simply lowering limits can be counter productive - As I believe has been the case here. ;) I'd much rather see more resource set aside for enforcing the existing traffic laws. What NZTA have done here is mere window dressing and represents the proverbial ambulance at the bottom of the cliff.

Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed :(

Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour :rolleyes:

BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels :(

[Navy Boy]

Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed :(

Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour :rolleyes:

BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels :(

You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource. Human nature is such that if behaviours aren't modified then people will always head for the path of least resistance. Mobile device usage is a prime example too.

Which is why the NZTA simply lowering a speed limit actually can make things worse, not better. SH6 is the best example that is close to where I do the majority of my riding and typifies all the issues people have highlighted in the posts above. Going more slowly and assuming that you can't overtake vehicles in front of you makes people switch off, which then leads to bad decisions and poor driving standards. The longer queues of traffic are what make performing a safe overtake more difficult and that's before you come to the frustration it leads to in drivers and riders alike. Like many I will almost certainly exceed the speed limit when performing an overtake - It's what makes bikes so much fun and it means you spend less time on the wrong side of the road.

Incidentally - And for clarity to some of our forum members - I've seen very little enforcement on SH6 since the limits were changed. The occasional police vehicle but certainly no more than I'd have expected to see in years gone by. That's a real shame as some of the driving/riding I've witnessed would have given said police some fertile hunting ground.

[george formby]

Absolutely right Lee. It's not just happening in your patch though.

Having just spent a week in Northland, the prolific sections of roadworks with long 30 or 50 km/h approaches, then the works sections themselves...no enforcement is apparent. Do roughly the posted temporary limit and you become the odd one out.
Never mind the sections where the posted limit has been permanently lowered to a mind numbing level, so the same effect takes place, do roughly the posted limit and most drivers become annoyed :(

Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour :rolleyes:

BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels :(

I'm in the Bay of Islands, most of the roads I commute on have been reduced to 80kmh limit. That speed has become my default setting to the point that when I hit a State Highway I'm still doing 80kmh until I re calibrate.

Add in the roading budget up here, which must be at least $50 a year judging by the condition, and it's pretty shit.

[pete376403]

Wonder who was the genius that decided all the passing lanes should be blocked off? Possibly a relative of the person with the plastics factory making a killing on road cones and marker poles.

[FJRider]

Now I've been involved in rider/driver education for longer than I care to admit. If what we teach isn't enforced in a meaningful way, is it any wonder the average rider/driver behaves the way they do? Little or no consequences for their poor behaviour :rolleyes:

What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

"Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ... :scratch:


BTW - not having a crack at our law enforcement community, the resources are limited, totally get that. Politics get in the way of progress on many levels :(

Law "Enforcement" does not decide what ANY speed limit will be. They just ENFORCE the set speed limits ... :blank:

[caspernz]

You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource. Human nature is such that if behaviours aren't modified then people will always head for the path of least resistance. Mobile device usage is a prime example too.

Which is why the NZTA simply lowering a speed limit actually can make things worse, not better. SH6 is the best example that is close to where I do the majority of my riding and typifies all the issues people have highlighted in the posts above. Going more slowly and assuming that you can't overtake vehicles in front of you makes people switch off, which then leads to bad decisions and poor driving standards. The longer queues of traffic are what make performing a safe overtake more difficult and that's before you come to the frustration it leads to in drivers and riders alike. Like many I will almost certainly exceed the speed limit when performing an overtake - It's what makes bikes so much fun and it means you spend less time on the wrong side of the road.

Incidentally - And for clarity to some of our forum members - I've seen very little enforcement on SH6 since the limits were changed. The occasional police vehicle but certainly no more than I'd have expected to see in years gone by. That's a real shame as some of the driving/riding I've witnessed would have given said police some fertile hunting ground.

Yeah it's the same all over the country it seems, I cover enough ground to have a real world view. Education is by no means perfect, but it's gotta go hand in hand with enforcement. Needs a bi-partisan approach from the political parties though. I'll just hold my breath shall I? :rolleyes::devil2:



I'm in the Bay of Islands, most of the roads I commute on have been reduced to 80kmh limit. That speed has become my default setting to the point that when I hit a State Highway I'm still doing 80kmh until I re calibrate.

Add in the roading budget up here, which must be at least $50 a year judging by the condition, and it's pretty shit.

For sure, having done a couple of laps of Northland recently, one for work and one for pleasure...I know what you mean. Sadly the situation you describe is similar all over NZ. The roading money may have been spent on warding off the covid boogeyman :lol:




What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

"Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ... :scratch:



Law "Enforcement" does not decide what ANY speed limit will be. They just ENFORCE the set speed limits ... :blank:

Feel free to nitpick and get into semantics.

If you can't see the connection between education and enforcement...the former won't work without the latter. Even if at the core it's an attitude problem, or entitlement problem if you wish.

The blue team is short of resources, and yeah I get they don't set the speed limits, but thanks for pointing out the obvious :rolleyes:

[FJRider]

Feel free to nitpick and get into semantics.

I asked ... What is it you teach in regard to the (ANY) posted speed limit ... and how does a change of a speed limit affect rider/driver "Education" ... ???

"Enforced in a meaningful (???) way" ??? ... Feel free to answer what you mean by that
.


If you can't see the connection between education and enforcement...the former won't work without the latter. Even if at the core it's an attitude problem, or entitlement problem if you wish.

Do you "educate" to obey speed limits ... or "educate" to decide for themselves a "SAFE" speed ... ??



The blue team is short of resources, and yeah I get they don't set the speed limits, but thanks for pointing out the obvious :rolleyes:

If it is so "obvious" ... why do you blame Police for enforcing any speed limit .. ??

What "Resources" are they "Short of" .. ??

You seem to be making claims you can't (or wont) back up.

So far all we hear are your opinions.

[jellywrestler]

You've hit the nail on the head there Rob - That poor behaviours simply go unpunished far too often due to lack of resource.

the cops don't want to deal with other offences than speed. Speed is easy, catch the person and the officer doesn't have to go to court as the judge takes their word for the speed, on a calibrated machine. Pull someone up for many offences and the many times the person will want a court sitting, the cops don't want to spend their day in court so don't bother. What they need is cameras in the cars to record all offences, then maybe road behaviour will change.

[rambaldi]

Wonder who was the genius that decided all the passing lanes should be blocked off? Possibly a relative of the person with the plastics factory making a killing on road cones and marker poles.

Someone that has seen all the numpties that can't merge at the end. They have been doing this for years, going north of Auckland. From what I have heard, it actually does a reasonable job of not making a shit situation worse.

[Berries]

Don't worry, once your favourite rural road has its speed limit dropped to 80km/h any passing lanes will be 'repurposed' into slow vehicle lanes anyway.

[FJRider]

Wonder who was the genius that decided all the passing lanes should be blocked off? Possibly a relative of the person with the plastics factory making a killing on road cones and marker poles.

Police don't have the authority to do that. So it's either Transit NZ (for State highways) or local Government for the other roads.

[Berries]

Some explanation as to why NZTA do it in link below but to summarise, NZ drivers can't merge for shit and are inconsiderate pricks at the best of times.

Officials-to-close-passing-lanes (https://www.stuff.co.nz/editors-picks/4478952/Officials-to-close-passing-lanes)

[Stylo]

Someone that has seen all the numpties that can't merge at the end. They have been doing this for years, going north of Auckland. From what I have heard, it actually does a reasonable job of not making a shit situation worse.

Perhaps we need to educate people how to use their cell phones better while driving in traffic. A few seconds looking down at your latest in-box message on FB will never cause any harm.

[pritch]

When a length of SH3 locally was designated 80kph the passing lanes were removed. There is just a single lane each way now with a lot of waste space. I asked and was told that we don't have passing lanes in 80kph areas.

[jellywrestler]

Perhaps we need to educate people how to use their cell phones better while driving in traffic. A few seconds looking down at your latest in-box message on FB will never cause any harm.

If they were serious about eliminating cell phone use they would put signs on some traffic lights outlining the rules, captive audience etc. Cell phone deaths can be easily blamed on speed, speed deaths mean they can justify a drop in the speed limit simply.