The Ukraine Invasion.

[Stylo]

Guess this is an overdue topic.

Here's a starter. Not looking good.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2022/3/13/russia-ukraine-live-news-thousands-flee-via-evacuation-corridors

[george formby]

The two ii's in the the title Invasion. Spell check, my bad. Putin sems to be the new Butcher of Ukraine.

Sems?

Ewes not havin a good spellin day.

[MD]

Deja vu 1939. It's OK Guys Hitler has only invaded Poland and he says he won't go any further, what a relief this will be over in a week.

I know NATO have a scary tough choice. Get directly involved and risk all out WWIII or sit back, do nothing and watch innocent people getting blown up and hope the madman attacking them gets bored and decides to go fishing instead or play tennis. Putin is doing this because he is betting on NATO being the coward. No one wants this escalated. No one (apart from Putin) wants a war in Europe. The news at night is distressing to watch. I have a riding buddy who is Greek, his Wife Polish. Both speak constantly with their relatives back in Europe and the fear of all out war is palatable.

My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

[george formby]

Deja vu 1939. It's OK Guys Hitler has only invaded Poland and he says he won't go any further, what a relief this will be over in a week.

I know NATO have a scary tough choice. Get directly involved and risk all out WWIII or sit back, do nothing and watch innocent people getting blown up and hope the madman attacking them gets bored and decides to go fishing instead or play tennis. Putin is doing this because he is betting on NATO being the coward. No one wants this escalated. No one (apart from Putin) wants a war in Europe. The news at night is distressing to watch. I have a riding buddy who is Greek, his Wife Polish. Both speak constantly with their relatives back in Europe and the fear of all out war is palatable.

My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018833890/former-nato-commander-on-russian-invasion-of-ukraine

[FJRider]

... My 2 cents worth is NATO must help and provide the air support President Zelenskyy is asking for otherwise we have learnt nothing from history. As the often misquoted saying goes- all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.



It may not be as simple as that.

A “NATO decision” is the expression of the collective will of all 30 member countries ... since all decisions of NATO are taken by consensus.



POLITICAL - NATO promotes democratic values and enables members to consult All NATO decisions are made by consensus, after discussion and consultation among member countries and cooperate on defense and security-related issues to solve problems, build trust and, in the long run, prevent conflict.

MILITARY - NATO is committed to the peaceful resolution of disputes. If diplomatic efforts fail, it has the military power to undertake crisis-management operations. These are carried out under the collective defense clause of NATO's founding treaty - Article 5 of the Washington Treaty The Parties agree that an armed attack against one or more of them in Europe or North America shall be considered an attack against them all and consequently they agree that, if such an armed attack occurs, each of them, in exercise of the right of individual or collective self-defence recognised by Article 51 of the Charter of the United Nations, will assist the Party or Parties so attacked by taking forthwith, individually and in concert with the other Parties, such action as it deems necessary, including the use of armed force, to restore and maintain the security of the North Atlantic area

Any such armed attack and all measures taken as a result thereof shall immediately be reported to the Security Council. Such measures shall be terminated when the Security Council has taken the measures necessary to restore and maintain international peace and security . or under a United Nations mandate, alone or in cooperation with other countries and international organizations.


My two cents worth is ... NATO will not take action until a member country is attacked. They may well be "On the ground" ... but until a NATO member border is crossed/attacked ... <_<



NATO Member Countries.

https://www.nato.int/nato-welcome/index.html

[pritch]

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

Problem is it's up to the Security Council. Russia has a permanent seat and the power of veto.

[george formby]

I found this to be an interesting perspective and little discussed. Get the UN to move.

Problem is it's up to the Security Council. Russia has a permanent seat and the power of veto.

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.

[husaberg]

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.

The UN security council works on the premise it has to be unanimous, Russia can just veto any decision which included saying "it was poor form old chap."
to be fair, the US pulls the same shit with vetos only less often.
350795

https://www.un.org/press/en/2022/sc14809.doc.htm

[FJRider]

Unless the rest of the UN has consensus. IIRC.

A few member nations will just keep saying niet.



If Russia is vetoing a UN Security Council resolution on Ukraine ... the 15-member body will vote again to call a special session of the entire 193-member UN General Assembly.

When a resolution goes to vote in the General Assembly ... none of the permanent five members can use their veto. However ... unlike resolutions passed in the Security Council ... these are non-binding on member states.

[R650R]

It seems Ukraine was not without societal problems before the war. Great care is going to be needed afterwards as there will be a lot of people with weapons who probably shouldn’t have access to them.... Could be Afghanistan mkiii
Maybe that’s why the west is reluctant to intervene as it would be to their advantage to balkanise ukraine into micro states where its easier to install a puppet to regime that could be a new nato client/military’s base while still giving Russia a technical bit of breathing space by letting it have the eastern provinces as independent states.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300535360/refugees-reporting-and-the-far-right-how-the-ukraine-crisis-reveals-brutal-everyday-racism-in-europe-and-beyond

Couple of interesting BBC docos over the years, best watch before they get deleted

First one from 8 years ago


https://youtu.be/5SBo0akeDMY

[R650R]

BBC news three years ago


https://youtu.be/hE6b4ao8gAQ

[R650R]

What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.
Maybe after Trumps second term we could have Chris Rock or Dave Chappell running America.
Jimmy Carr could do nice job of UK and perhaps Usulla Carlson could replace Jacinda.
Keep up the great work Zelensky I think he should be present of the new post war European superstate that will replace the inept UN.


https://youtu.be/pkGbnplg308

[pritch]

What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.


A comedian yes but he's got a law degree, a very common qualification among politicians.

[pritch]

It seems Ukraine was not without societal problems before the war. Great care is going to be needed afterwards as there will be a lot of people with weapons who probably shouldn’t have access to them.... Could be Afghanistan mkiii


That's a different concern to the one I've seen expressed. There will be many Ukrainians who have lost a lot, possibly lost everything, they may want vengeance. Some could even have a Russian passport, some fairly heavy weaponry, and a desire for vengeance.

[TheDemonLord]

A comedian yes but he's got a law degree, a very common qualification among politicians.

Doesn't that tell you alot about the problems with our Politicians...

[husaberg]

A comedian yes but he's got a law degree, a very common qualification among politicians.

Hes has a pretty interesting petigree, An actor who owned his own production company stared in movies his father was a professor and university head of department his mother and engineer.
His grandfather rose through the ranks to become a colonel in the red army , Note his great grandfather and three grandfathers siblings died in the Holocaust. although this is not confirmed.
He also won the Ukraine version of dancing with the stars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlJywp7E3Gw
https://www.snopes.com/news/2022/03/01/zelenskys-family-and-career/
just to top it all off he was the Ukraine voice of Paddington Bear


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-vlb4z9ge5E
imagine how far he could have got with a small loan of a hundred million dollars.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVvcPxlfsvg

No pay off's to porn stars no multiple marriages to bimbos no stories of mushroom shaped penis
he hasn't declared the media to be the enemy and claimed piutin is his friend or that the KKK has good people.
and unlike a lot of the former US prez hes no dodging the draft.

[R650R]

That's a different concern to the one I've seen expressed. There will be many Ukrainians who have lost a lot, possibly lost everything, they may want vengeance. Some could even have a Russian passport, some fairly heavy weaponry, and a desire for vengeance.

Yes indeed but very quickly I’d say the criminal underworld/organised crime and White supremicusts Will be back to doing what those type of people do.... and they will be fully tooled up thanks to our donations....
But looks like Zelensky has plans....

https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/.premium.HIGHLIGHT-zelenskyy-says-post-war-ukraine-will-emulate-israel-won-t-be-liberal-european-1

[TheDemonLord]

No pay off's to porn stars no multiple marriages to bimbos no stories of mushroom shaped penis
he hasn't declared the media to be the enemy and claimed piutin is his friend or that the KKK has good people.
and unlike a lot of the former US prez hes no dodging the draft.

Look, I like Zelensky, and I think he's doing a great job - but if you think there's no Pay Offs in the Ukraine you are delusional.

Not only that, he's got a self-declared Neo-Nazi brigade fighting for him - that's a bit more than merely saying there are good people on both sides of an issue.

[R650R]

An interesting angle on why the west is so reluctant to properly step up to the mark with real assistance, articulated on another website....

Apparentky with Russia’s new superior air defence weapons they are petrified of their flagship f35 “ stealth” fighters being shot down among other technical issues.
It seems a lot of the modern gear mightn’t do what’s says on the sides of the pretty packaging box.....
This kind of meshes well with words of the Tornado pilot whose book I mentioned elsewhere. When they went to gulf war they knew Saddam had heaps of half decent gear but whete horrified at just how much of a fight the air defence systems put up...,

Also it’s kinda ironic that modern nations are in effect virtue signalling by listing the specific amounts of what they are sending. Do politicians realise it’s a war and not just a Facebook status update for nation

[husaberg]

An interesting angle on why the west is so reluctant to properly step up to the mark with real assistance, articulated on another website....

Apparentky with Russia’s new superior air defence weapons they are petrified of their flagship f35 “ stealth” fighters being shot down among other technical issues.
It seems a lot of the modern gear mightn’t do what’s says on the sides of the pretty packaging box.....
This kind of meshes well with words of the Tornado pilot whose book I mentioned elsewhere. When they went to gulf war they knew Saddam had heaps of half decent gear but whete horrified at just how much of a fight the air defence systems put up...,

Also it’s kinda ironic that modern nations are in effect virtue signalling by listing the specific amounts of what they are sending. Do politicians realise it’s a war and not just a Facebook status update for nation

Congratulations That's one of the stupidest posts you have ever made.
Have you missed the reason the west doesn't want to get involved directly as they have nukes as well?
You know the same reason it has been since the 50's

[Swoop]

Apparentky with Russia’s new superior air defence weapons they are petrified of their flagship f35 “ stealth” fighters being shot down among other technical issues.
It seems a lot of the modern gear mightn’t do what’s says on the sides of the pretty packaging box.....

It's the other way around. The "combat proven" equipment that Russia has been using in Syria is proving to be a massive liability. Add to that the amount of customers who have cancelled arms contracts with Russian companies - this will also affect the future economic stability of Comradeland for years to come (over and above the sanctions imposed on them).

It seems the tank as a concept is heading to the graveyard of equipment required in a war.

[R650R]

It's the other way around. The "combat proven" equipment that Russia has been using in Syria is proving to be a massive liability. Add to that the amount of customers who have cancelled arms contracts with Russian companies - this will also affect the future economic stability of Comradeland for years to come (over and above the sanctions imposed on them).

It seems the tank as a concept is heading to the graveyard of equipment required in a war.

Well they certainly made some errors in sending tanks into confined areas when they are best used gulf war style. A large rapidly moving front over open ground followed by infantry mopping up left overs.
They had about as much chance getting into central Kiev as a preloaded teen drunk driver thinking he will avoid a breath test checkpoint.

[Swoop]

Well they certainly made some errors in sending tanks into confined areas when they are best used gulf war style. A large rapidly moving front over open ground followed by infantry mopping up left overs.
They had about as much chance getting into central Kiev as a preloaded teen drunk driver thinking he will avoid a breath test checkpoint.

This time of year is referred to as the "mud season". Only a retard would attack now...

It is interesting to see the similarities with the Russian army and the WW2 German army in this area. The battlefields of Kursk and Stalingrad are not far away.

[TheDemonLord]

It seems the tank as a concept is heading to the graveyard of equipment required in a war.

I've seen this bandied about a bit - but I disagree - whilst the next generation of Tank may change in response to Lessons learned in the Ukraine - there will be a next generation of Tank.

As awesome as the NLAW is - it's range is only about 400-800 meters. One of the things I see consistently mentioned by commentators is that the Russians seem to have forgotten the whole combined arms things where the Infantry and the tanks support each other.

[pritch]

I've seen this bandied about a bit - but I disagree - whilst the next generation of Tank may change in response to Lessons learned in the Ukraine - there will be a next generation of Tank.

As awesome as the NLAW is - it's range is only about 400-800 meters. One of the things I see consistently mentioned by commentators is that the Russians seem to have forgotten the whole combined arms things where the Infantry and the tanks support each other.



The Russian tanks have a crew of three, they use a self loading main gun. Other tanks generally use a loader and have a crew of four. Ultimately tanks may have no crew and be operated by remote control like drones.

The NLAW is supposed to self destruct at 1000m. The Russians would need to be very sure whether they were facing NLAWs or Javelins because the Javelin has a range of 2000m.

The Russian handling of their armour has been eye opening, they're reportedly ignoring pretty much the whole text book - when they've actually got fuel.

[TheDemonLord]

The Russian tanks have a crew of three, they use a self loading main gun. Other tanks generally use a loader and have a crew of four. Ultimately tanks may have no crew and be operated by remote control like drones.

This is where we get to the interesting concept of trade-offs.

A Russian tank has a crew of 3, which means if the tank is destroyed, less Human casulties, but it also means if one of the crew is injured - the Mission has to be scrapped, there's also one less person for Maintenance and specifically for the Auto-Loader - Both the inability to switch out projectiles (e.g. loading an HE round ready to take on a bunker when you suddenly see Enemy Armour and need an APFSDS round) and that the Ammo isn't in secure/wet stowage (I'm assuming you've seen the tanks with the Turrets that have gone pop)

Whereas the American tanks have one extra Man which although it means an extra person in harms way, the Mission can go on if one crew member is incapacitated - they can switch Ammo (pull the round out, shove a new one in) and Western tanks have better Ammo Stowage.

Remote control tanks are an interesting concept - I remember reading/watching about one of the experiments that the British Army did with a Chally 2 - whereby the added a shitload of optics/cameras on the tank - such as reversing cameras and one that sat on the end of the barrel (but pointing perpendicular to the barrel - allowing them to 'peak' round corners).

That experiment was shelved because the Tank crews were taking up too much time 'peaking' and being too cautious. This is where I think the concept of Drone Tanks will hit a decisive inflection point - Do you design your drone tank to be cheap and disposable in order to foster a 'Full speed ahead and Damn the torpedoes!' mentality, or do you make your Drone tank more survivable, but possibly promoting what we Gamers would refer to as 'Camping' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camping_(video_games)

Edit: Also to add - I'm not entirely convinced that a Drone will ever be able to give a sufficient tactical awareness so as to alert the Tank Commanders 6th Sense.


The Russian handling of their armour has been eye opening, they're reportedly ignoring pretty much the whole text book - when they've actually got fuel.

This is probably the single biggest reveal - Tanks pushing into Urban Combat without dismounted troops covering the tank, no combined arms - every lesson learned in every tank engagement since the inception of the Tank - it's been startling TBH.

Several Military commentators have even remarked that the Russians don't even appear to be following their own Doctrine as to how they are meant to be fighting - there's a guy on YT that did a number of years in the 11th armoured Cav (The OpFor guys) and so 'trained' using Soviet/Russian Doctrine in order to fight how they are supposed to fight - and even he is scratching his head.

[pzkpfw]

The other benefit of the Russian auto-loaders is that's where the Russian Army Choir gets its supply of castrati.

[Racey Rider]

.......... - all it takes for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

Maybe that's what was said to Putin, about the fact Ukraine has been shelling Ukrainians in the Donbas for the last 8 years!

Of course you wouldn't hear that on NZ news (Who parrots whatever American news tries to put out as truth.)

[Laava]

So why didn't Putin use this as his excuse to invade then?
Instead of nothing other than "special military operations"?
It has just occurred to me that by "special", he meant as in special olympics...now it is all starting to make sense...
no wonder they are getting pushed back!

[R650R]

https://joannenova.com.au/2022/04/a-corrupt-invasion-ruined-by-corruption/

[husaberg]

Maybe that's what was said to Putin, about the fact Ukraine has been shelling Ukrainians in the Donbas for the last 8 years!

Of course you wouldn't hear that on NZ news (Who parrots whatever American news tries to put out as truth.)

You mean the civil war that started when Russian backed troped seized at a different part of Ukraine about 8 years ago?


Putin has long accused Ukraine of violating the rights of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in Ukraine, and has said it was within Russia's rights to militarily intervene to protect them.
In recent weeks, Putin has alleged that "genocide" was being committed in Donbas. His allegations aren't new, but the timing is of concern to Western policy-makers, who fear a repeat of a 2008 conflict in Georgia.
By invoking genocide, Putin was echoing Russia's false claim that Georgia committed genocide against civilians in the breakaway republic of South Ossetia in August 2008. During that brief conflict, Russia launched a massive military incursion that pushed deep into Georgian territory.

i would rather listen to the ICC than fucking putin who is a scumbucket dictator


Karim Khan, the International Criminal Court's (ICC) chief prosecutor, on Wednesday visited the town of Bucha -- the scene of hundreds of civilian killings which Ukraine has blamed on Russian forces who occupied it for several weeks. Ukraine's parliament adopted a resolution declaring Russia's actions "genocide."

[caseye]

Maybe that's what was said to Putin, about the fact Ukraine has been shelling Ukrainians in the Donbas for the last 8 years!

Of course you wouldn't hear that on NZ news (Who parrots whatever American news tries to put out as truth.)

Like the few Russians living here in NZ for sometime, most of them don't need the US to tell them whats happening and are generally well informed and know this is wrong and say so, some of them however choose to beleive their own countires propoganda, are you Russian?
Russia started a special operation, I sincerely hope that when Nato sends in their military hardware by way of support, that Putin, true to his word (he said it today, Nato sending in arms will result in serious and higly dangerous retalition)if he, Poo Tin, does attempt to use Chemical, laser or tactical dirty nuke bombs ((Who knows, maybe his miltiary aides will depose him before he consigns Russia to the proverbial scrap heap)), that way, we can rid the world of Russia, China and yes, fuck it the Iran, Iraq and the anything that ends in Stan conglomoration. None of them worth the steam of the Free worlds many countries shit!
FUCK RUSSIA and when it comes to this, our country, fuck any Russian living here who seriously thinks Russia has a right or the approval of any one else in the world to launch this so called "special operation". Send these fuckers back to Russia, you know the good ol 501 Express.
Op's, is it Friday?????:banana:

[husaberg]

NO no no according to the Russians who had amassed over a hundred thousand troops they were just having an exercise they don't want war
they have no intention to invade Ukraine...:shutup:

<iframe src="https://globalnews.ca/video/embed/8578207/" width="670" height="372" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen scrolling="no"></iframe>

https://globalnews.ca/news/8580055/russia-ukraine-putin-tensions/
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/russia-ukraine-putin-invasion-after-denials-now-says-no-occupation-plan/


Meanwhile in reality
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-europe-61101906

900 civilian bodies recovered in Kyiv region – chief of police
The police chief of the Kyiv region says the bodies of 900 civilians have been found in towns around the capital, more than a week after Russian troops left.
The UN says more than five million Ukrainians have been forced out of their homes during the conflict

[husaberg]

Not a good day to be one of Putins pals

France and Jersey freeze Roman Abramovich assets
He is best known outside Russia as the owner of Chelsea, a Premier League football club
France has seized £20bn of Russian assets, including a villa on the French Riviera and 11 other properties belonging to Roman Abramovich, France 24 News reports.
Jersey in the Channel Islands has also frozen £5bn of assets belonging Abramovich.
Jersey police have been searching properties on the island linked to the billionaire, law officers said.
Abramovich was named as the island's most wealthy resident in 2018.
He was also sanctioned by the UK government last month as part of its response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
By 1996, at the age of 30, Abramovich had become close to President Boris Yeltsin, and had moved into an apartment inside the Kremlin at the invitation of the Yeltsin family.[83]

In 1999, the 33-year-old Abramovich was elected governor of the Russian province of Chukotka.
Abramovich was the first person to recommend to Yeltsin that Vladimir Putin be his successor as the Russian president.
March 10th, 2022 Abramovich had his UK assets frozen and a travel ban was put in place.
In late March 2022, it was reported that Abromavich was house-hunting in Dubai.
Prior to the 2008 financial crisis, he was considered to be the second richest person living within the United Kingdom.

[pritch]

Maybe that's what was said to Putin, about the fact Ukraine has been shelling Ukrainians in the Donbas for the last 8 years!

Of course you wouldn't hear that on NZ news (Who parrots whatever American news tries to put out as truth.)

Those "Ukrainians" in Donbas are the Russian soldiers that invaded East Ukraine and, among other things, shot down an airliner killing 300 people. Where do you get your "news"?

[R650R]

The perils of using a consumer level drone in a war zone that’s probably broadcasting its gos location unencrypted. No doubt law enforcement and nation states already hadn’t back doors into these from dayone before any war.....


https://youtu.be/UZXzMUxfR6c

[husaberg]

Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,


Once again a mainstream news article proves me correct from what I said couple months ago after observing overseas trends.
Quite nice of comrade Putin to start WW4 do Stalinda could slip this out...,,



You really are a turkey troll with a tiny pecker
https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/02/trump-nude-troll-doll-chuck-williams-1.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=480%2C414

[pritch]

I find this news item just a tad suspect. Allegedly the guys parading here are the crew of the Moskva, the latest artificial reef in the Black Sea.
Well 100 or so of the 500 crew anyway. We are to believe that these dudes, just rescued from a burning ship, all escaped in their best parade uniforms.
Or not?

Also the comments refer to the summer foliage on the trees. It's spring, the foliage is still in its early stages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQUkzQIsks

[husaberg]

I find this news item just a tad suspect. Allegedly the guys parading here are the crew of the Moskva, the latest artificial reef in the Black Sea.
Well 100 or so of the 500 crew anyway. We are to believe that these dudes, just rescued from a burning ship, all escaped in their best parade uniforms.
Or not?

Also the comments refer to the summer foliage on the trees. It's spring, the foliage is still in its early stages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQUkzQIsks

Putin: The warship Moskva has not sunk it has simply been reclassified as a new type of submarine and is on a special underwater operation.

[pzkpfw]

I find this news item just a tad suspect. Allegedly the guys parading here are the crew of the Moskva, the latest artificial reef in the Black Sea.
Well 100 or so of the 500 crew anyway. We are to believe that these dudes, just rescued from a burning ship, all escaped in their best parade uniforms.
Or not?

Also the comments refer to the summer foliage on the trees. It's spring, the foliage is still in its early stages.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmQUkzQIsks

This is something I don't understand about the Russians (and Putin supporters outside of Russia).

Their propaganda (and yes, all sides make propaganda) is of the level of the toddler caught with their hand in the cookie jar who says "it wasn't me".

(Like Baghdad Bob who claimed the Iraqi's had shot down a Tomahawk, reprogrammed it, and sent it back to the Americans.)

How do people swallow that stuff?

[oldguy]

Who armed Ukraine and decided to expand NATO? Prof John Mearsheimer

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/sq_q7WsiCWs" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[onearmedbandit]

How do people swallow that stuff?

The power of wanting to believe is very strong.

[R650R]

*** TRIGGER WARNING*** some independent reporting from three years ago, wonder YouTube hasn’t deleted it....


https://youtu.be/dotH9C4l3rE

[husaberg]

*** TRIGGER WARNING*** some independent reporting from three years ago, wonder YouTube hasn’t deleted it....


So when you said Russia would not invade Ukraine on a scale of 1 to 1000 how right were you......



Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,

[R650R]

Some leaves and twigs getting shot up ....


https://youtu.be/QKoQTBbIQNw

[R650R]

Well that didn’t take long... media and general public have forgotten about the war already. Even these two related KB threads gone a whole 30 days with no posts...
I started noticing a week or so ago that no longer did it have its own dedicated section in various media outlets....
But the most startling thing (I forgot to grab link think via the bee/twatter) was some huge pro left poster stating he hated to say it but the war outcomes were not matching with the mainstream media and govt statements. .

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/u9pEotvlW-s

[R650R]

https://youtu.be/JxdHm2dmvKE

[R650R]

Interesting analysis, especially the part about Russia timing when west at its weakest economically and logistics wise post covid.
Let’s hope all this might trigger a rejuvenation of western manufacturing industry when the dust settles....


https://youtu.be/w6A-zbL7bgA

[husaberg]

Interesting analysis, especially the part about Russia timing when west at its weakest

Really weren't you the self proclaimed expert that said Russia would not invade Ukraine...


..

Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,

How come you are not posting about how all these airbases ammo dumps bridges and roads and air defense systems that are getting taken out by the US provided missiles. both air to ground and ground to air. The Russian can't do a thing about it. They now are struggling to even supply there armies.
I thought Russia taking out Ukraine was inevitable but what Putin has showed is Russia is piss week and entirely shit and poorly equipped and has shit tactics.
or the people that are now getting assassinated in Putins inner circle.
even the russian propaganda media admits they are getting killed.

Russia's TASS state news agency quoted Andrei Krasnov, someone who knew Dugina, as saying the vehicle belonged to her father and that he was probably the intended target.
Father and daughter had been attending a festival outside Moscow and Dugin had decided to switch cars at the last minute, Russian government newspaper Rossiiskaya Gazeta reported

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62643274

[husaberg]

351702
Huge respect to the Ukrainian people.
351703
8,000 square KM in a week.

[Swoop]

It all looks fun for the new conscripts...
"Need to buy your own sleeping bags and medical kits".
That will be fun now that the overnight temperature is freezing. Remember that Ukraine will be a toasty -30 degrees during winter.

Fuck dictator putin.

Slava Ukraini!

[husaberg]

It all looks fun for the new conscripts...
"Need to buy your own sleeping bags and medical kits".
That will be fun now that the overnight temperature is freezing. Remember that Ukraine will be a toasty -30 degrees during winter.

Fuck dictator putin.

Slava Ukraini!

Like any war its going to be the poor people that end up paying for their leaders greed not with money of course, with their lives.
from what i can see most of the "recruits" tend to be from the areas that are the poorest and not areas and regions of Putin support. Putin's escalation of this, as the tide turns against him soon will likely result in him declaring the stolen areas as being "Russian soil" to use this, to blackmail the west into not funding the defense of Ukraine as he threatens to escalate it nuclear to defend Russian soil.

i read this today in regards to Putin's motivations

An analysist said prior to the war, that War is possible, and it would be foolish to discount it. But it’s hard to see how the war goes in Russia’s direction, because, if you pay attention to Ukraine, it’s pretty clear that they’re going to fight, and that they can fight. Also, it’s going to bring all these risks down on Putin, and so it’s hard to see how it would make sense for him to do that.”

Then said this
What we didn’t compute for us was the benefits for Putin that would outweigh these costs—why it would make sense to take all of these risks.

Those risks largely have come to pass. He’s now running a state that is poorer, less secure, and in which he’s got fewer political options. He’s painted himself into a whole bunch of corners. Clearly, he did see a reason to do this, and maybe it was because he sees the world differently than we do, or maybe it was because he got bad analysis.
Having started down this road, he has to take it to some kind of a conclusion that he can live with. The risks are real, but so are the advantages. He has to deal with fractious public opinion. He has to deal with an élite that could at any moment decide that they’re done with him and the future is better served by going in a different direction. But he controls a massive security state. He controls all of the television in the country. He controls all the political parties in the parliament, and he’s the commander-in-chief in wartime.
There have been two related arguments about Putin. One is that he has had a certain amount of success because he doesn’t ask too much of the Russian population, which we discussed, and the other is that Russians, because of his control of the media, don’t really know how bad things are in Ukraine.

[F5 Dave]

Efficiency and progress is ours once more
Now that we have the neutron bomb
It's nice and quick and clean and gets things done
Away with excess enemy
But no less value to property
No sense in war but perfect sense at home
The sun beams down on a brand new day
No more welfare tax to pay
Unsightly slums gone up in flashing light
Jobless millions whisked away
At last we have more room to play
All systems go to kill the poor tonight
Gonna kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight
Behold the sparkly of champagne
The crime rate's gone, feel free again
Oh life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
Jane Fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night
While they kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight
Behold the sparkly of champagne
The crime rate's gone, feel free again
Oh life's a dream with you, Miss Lily White
Jane Fonda on the screen today
Convinced the liberals it's okay
So let's get dressed and dance away the night
While they kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor
Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill the poor tonight​

[MD]

Not the best choice of font there Dave.

Who the hell are these 'Advisors' Putin listens too? Is he deaf, dumb and blind to the bleeding obvious? Quarter of a million Russian men fled across the border in a couple of days following the call up. Can he not hear the message that exodus is screaming at him- no, bad decision, big mistake, wrong way, turn back... He has painted himself into a corner called 'failure imminent'

This highlights the ignorance of those Destiny Church dickheads and anti NZ government protestors demanding we have our freedoms back and disband our oppressive form of government- take a look at what true lack of freedom is and what it must be like to really live under an oppressive rule. Go live in Iran or Russia and then you will have reason to demand your freedoms, but unlike here, if you do, expect your door knocked down late at night by the goon squad and a long spell learning the salt mining trade.

What worries me is Putin seems more unstable and desperate each day and the tension is rising towards a crisis point where the shit could really hit the fan on global proportions

[Laava]

Geez MD, that reads like Dead Kennedy lyrics too!😆😆😆😆
I think Putin has the same advisor that Trunt had, a little opaque guy sitting on his shoulder and whispering into his shell like!

[R650R]

Not the best choice of font there Dave.

Who the hell are these 'Advisors' Putin listens too? Is he deaf, dumb and blind to the bleeding obvious? Quarter of a million Russian men fled across the border in a couple of days following the call up. Can he not hear the message that exodus is screaming at him- no, bad decision, big mistake, wrong way, turn back... He has painted himself into a corner called 'failure imminent'

This highlights the ignorance of those Destiny Church dickheads and anti NZ government protestors demanding we have our freedoms back and disband our oppressive form of government- take a look at what true lack of freedom is and what it must be like to really live under an oppressive rule. Go live in Iran or Russia and then you will have reason to demand your freedoms, but unlike here, if you do, expect your door knocked down late at night by the goon squad and a long spell learning the salt mining trade.

What worries me is Putin seems more unstable and desperate each day and the tension is rising towards a crisis point where the shit could really hit the fan on global proportions

I think you’ll find most of those people really do know what real communist oppression does look like, that’s why they are so upset at it creeping in.
Do you think Russia, China and nazi Germany suddenly went full commie. No theyes various stages before whammo your there.
Let’s not forget our leader needs five full time press secretaries to manage the single source of truth

[F5 Dave]

Yeah sorry MD, I was struggling to change my cut and paste from source, it didn't work as usual and I gave up.

[Oakie]

So Putin has made his annexation speech. Shit is about to get real. World leaders have decisions to make.
Realistically, is anyone apart from the Ukraine going to stand up to to him on the battlefield? Unlikely. So he'll take those 4 areas, we'll finish up with another version of the Berlin Wall with the Ukraine and hey ho, back to a new Cold War. Russia will become another isolated North Korea ... unless someone rapidly takes Putin out (and I don't mean for dinner and a movie.)

[R650R]

So Putin has made his annexation speech. Shit is about to get real. World leaders have decisions to make.
Realistically, is anyone apart from the Ukraine going to stand up to to him on the battlefield? Unlikely. So he'll take those 4 areas, we'll finish up with another version of the Berlin Wall with the Ukraine and hey ho, back to a new Cold War. Russia will become another isolated North Korea ... unless someone rapidly takes Putin out (and I don't mean for dinner and a movie.)

Who knows how this plays out from here... except those really pulling the strings...
A few pertinent reminders that we all need to play nicely soon or lot of people will be getting very hungry, likely mass starvation actually.

Russia is number one supplier of potash, supplies 50% of world urea production and in conjunction with Ukraine accounts for 50% of world grain production. Without Russian gas Germany is about to get real cold.
Then there are the industrial implications of processes and equipment shut down that can’t be restarted economically.
Russia will still have trade with China, India Iran etc who all don’t teally give a damn about our concerns.

[husaberg]

Who knows how this plays out from here...

Its unlikely to be you now is it given your predictions that Russia would not invade Ukraine....

.
Russia won’t invade anyway.




Russia is number one supplier of potash, supplies 50% of world urea production and in conjunction with Ukraine accounts for 50% of world grain production. Without Russian gas Germany is about to get real cold.
Then there are the industrial implications of processes and equipment shut down that can’t be restarted economically.
Russia will still have trade with China, India Iran etc who all don’t teally give a damn about our concerns.

its pretty telling you want to focus on the financial implications rather then the millions of innocent people displaced and the hundreds of thousands that will be killed.....

[pete376403]

It did not end well for the last dictator who annexed territory (Sudetenland) in Europe. Wonder why putin thinks it will be different for him - especially as the opposition is starting out a lot more cohesive than in 1938

[nerrrd]

The Ukrainians aren't going to stop at his 'borders' if they can keep up their momentum, but at least (so far) they seem to be getting a pass in Putin's mind from being part of 'the West' despite all the support they're getting from us.

That might be an indication that he really does understand what's at stake if he takes the nuclear option, and is in fact bluffing about not bluffing. Throwing large numbers of bodies into a fight to give themselves time to consolidate militarily has worked for Russia in the past...

It's hard to see him stomaching a humiliating defeat without lashing out somewhere, though, hmmm, maybe on some vital infrastructure somewhere?

Perhaps he thinks that if he can just hold on long enough, the West will run out of stuff just like they have.

[TheDemonLord]

Wonder why putin thinks it will be different for him - especially as the opposition is starting out a lot more cohesive than in 1938

Two reasons spring to mind:

1: He has Nukes*
2: Europe Energy Dependence

I seem to recall someone warning the EU about being Energy dependent on Russia, I also seem to recall the EU laughing at them.

In the words of Mr Farage: "Well, you're not laughing now". Realistically, if Europe is to reverse it's energy decisions, it will take at least 5-10 years to build the required Nuclear power plants. That is something that severely limits the European response to Putin and he knows it. The 'Maintenance' and 'Sabotage' on Nordstream are merely warning shots across the bow to Europe atm.

Also, from a historical perspective, I don't think it's fair to say that the starting opposition is more cohesive than 1938 Poland and France - recently I've been doing a bit of reading about the Poles in WW2 - which has some of the best stories about absolute Mad-Bastards being absolutely Mad. Whether it's Wotjek the Artillery Bear or the ORP Piorun engaging in (for Naval vessels) a Knife Fight with the Bismark - we really do the Polish a disservice in the West. So although Blitzkrieg and the German strategy of Combined arms was super effective, I don't think you can't say the France and Poland weren't cohesive - they were simply outplayed.

Anyways - back to point one, the big one, the Nuclear one. Before I talk on this - I suggest this video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNEtlMSCiCI

LP is very Meme-y, which may not be to everyones taste, but there is a lot of good info in there. In particular though, I want to focus on something that this war is showing as a pattern - Russian Corruption in the Military has shown that what is on Paper is a fraction of what actually exists and that what is left, is not anywhere near as operationally effective as we have been lead to believe.

When it comes to the subject of Nukes, There is a strong argument to be made that these would be subject to greater oversight and that as a strategic deterrent weapon, greater emphasis would be placed on making sure they are in good working order.

The problem is that the same could have been said for the Flagship of an entire fleet - and yet that was sent to war effectively crippled with half it's point-defence weapons inoperable and major issues with it's Electronic suite.

So, I'm not super convinced that there isn't a reason to presume that Russia's Nuclear arsenal won't be subject to the same issues that seem to affect the rest of the Russian Military.

The other factor is the story about the Columbian Drug kingpin who tried to buy a Russian sub who was asked if he wanted it 'With Missiles or without' - I'm not sure how much weight I put into the word of such a Drug Dealer - but it does paint a picture consistent with the other stories...

That if a General wants a new Dacha, then everything is for sale for the right price.

Of course - this is all an Academic exercise - because ultimately, one would have to ask the infamous question posed by Harry Callahan:

"you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do you, punk?"

[pete376403]

No question about the Poles in WWII, their airmen once they got into the RAF were superb, and their bravery without question (cavalry charges against tanks) even if in that case it was completely futile. But in the late 30s - Britain was prepared to sacrifice any number of other countries ("peace in our time"), the French Maginot line only went as far as the Belgian border (How dare the Huns go around!), USA was doing everything it could to stay away, etc. - in that respect NATO is a lot more cohesive and ready to act.

[husaberg]

No question about the Poles in WWII, their airmen once they got into the RAF were superb, and their bravery without question (cavalry charges against tanks) even if in that case it was completely futile. But in the late 30s - Britain was prepared to sacrifice any number of other countries ("peace in our time"), the French Maginot line only went as far as the Belgian border (How dare the Huns go around!), USA was doing everything it could to stay away, etc. - in that respect NATO is a lot more cohesive and ready to act.

Most forget the poles were invaded from both sides y the Soviets and Germany.
Later on the Fins were kicking Russian ass despite being outnumber by over 2/1 until the Germans had to bail them out.
They inflicted casualties of 6-7 times higher then their own on the Russians.
This was said to be due to the fact that Stalin had purged the Russian army of its officers and he saw them as a potential threat.

[pritch]

Was wondering if the recent successes by Ukraine might have caused them to consider an attempt to regain Crimea. Currently there are reports of a blast and a fire on the only bridge linking Crimea to Russia.

[husaberg]

Was wondering if the recent successes by Ukraine might have caused them to consider an attempt to regain Crimea. Currently there are reports of a blast and a fire on the only bridge linking Crimea to Russia.

It looks like they found a way to target the railine only looks like they may have did it with an explosive on the train itself?
its important that the road link stays intake so the civilians/Russian conscripts can retreat.:lol:
it looks like one section of the roadway blew out. which is odd as its the outside section? furthest from the railway?
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FehhNASWYAAHF_v?format=jpg&name=large

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-08/fuel-tank-ablaze-at-bridge-in-crimea-russian-news-agency-says/101515576
https://news.sky.com/video/key-bridge-linking-russia-and-crimea-hit-by-explosion-12715171

Edit looking at other videos it might have been a bomb under the bridge? explains how the section fell out they might hab=ve timed it to coincide with the fuel laden train?

I don't think its co-incidental this happen on vald's the neighbours birthday.

[R650R]

Good old Poland takes one for the team again to get ww4 kicked off.

The irony of the world falling over themselves for Poland when not too long ago it was almost as much a pariah state as Russia due to its deeply right wing Christian president trampling on woman’s rights and the abortion debate etc

This clip of Jacinda is interesting, she actually looks deeply troubled by this. Has she had a phone call from the real rulers about what’s about to go down. Are the western elite still going to use this incident for a short sharp nuke knockout on russia.
A limited world war or tactical nuke exchange could really put the kybosh on the whole green agenda, solar won’t be too great in that nuclear winter....
Poland itself is only talking article 4 which means let’s talk about this, nothing more....
Could covid lockdowns been a practice runs forctraining society to stay indoors during radiation events. (Modern nuked produce much less fallout unless ground burst, couple weeks wind and rain and shesxfairly fine to come outdoors with a dust mask.)

Anyhow interesting times we live in....

https://youtu.be/m8SxsWAWfXo

[husaberg]

Good old Poland takes one for the team again to get ww4 kicked off.

The irony of the world falling over themselves for Poland when not too long ago it was almost as much a pariah state as Russia due to its deeply right wing Christian president trampling on woman’s rights and the abortion debate etc

tell us more


Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.

[R650R]

Oh dear the truth has come out fast here making mockery of media fear mongering. Even Biden could see it was likely not Russian attack and received rare compliment frommputin.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300741016/poland-nato-say-missile-strike-wasnt-a-russian-attack


https://youtu.be/UxU7AtKVZmg

[husaberg]

Oh dear the truth has come out fast here making mockery of media fear mongering. Even Biden could see it was likely not Russian attack and received rare compliment frommputin.

https://i.stuff.co.nz/world/europe/300741016/poland-nato-say-missile-strike-wasnt-a-russian-attack



Engerish please......you are posting in russian spambot
Bidens has said exactly what Nato has said.

[Berries]

Could covid lockdowns been a practice runs forctraining society to stay indoors during radiation events.
No.



Put the pills away.

[pete376403]

Still russias fault by proxy - if they hadn't been sending all the missiles at ukraine, then ukraine wouldnt have been trying to shoot them down. Unfortunate, but pretty low casualty count as collateral damages go. But this may still backfire against russia, if the west sends them more and better anti-missile systems.

[pzkpfw]

Still russias fault by proxy - if they hadn't been sending all the missiles at ukraine, then ukraine wouldnt have been trying to shoot them down. Unfortunate, but pretty low casualty count as collateral damages go. But this may still backfire against russia, if the west sends them more and better anti-missile systems.

Especially: the Russian missile targets right now are civilian infrastructure (gas, power, water, ...).

[HenryDorsetCase]

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018867728

Kim Hill interviewed a kiwi called Jordan OBrien today who is fighting in Ukraine. Very interesting. Ex NZDF, exPMC

[R650R]

Private military contractors.... previously known as mercenaries.

I wonder if a journalist will ever question jacinda or the greens about how they feel about former NZ defence trained personnel operating as guns for hire?
While the current conflict lands them on right side of public opinion there will no doubt be other skirmishes where involvement could be morally questionable....
What is their true standing in the modern political arena
It just live the irony of how it clashes with the lefts anti gun agenda and anti private enterprise, I expect they file the appropriate tax returns ;p

[pritch]

Private military contractors.... previously known as mercenaries.

I wonder if a journalist will ever question jacinda or the greens about how they feel about former NZ defence trained personnel operating as guns for hire?
While the current conflict lands them on right side of public opinion there will no doubt be other skirmishes where involvement could be morally questionable....
What is their true standing in the modern political arena
It just live the irony of how it clashes with the lefts anti gun agenda and anti private enterprise, I expect they file the appropriate tax returns ;p

He was a PMC in Iraq prior to COVID rearing its head.

If you actually listened to the interview he asnwers your questions. Since being a mercenary for a foreign government is a crime in this country, he thought it wise to make enquiries before he went. The answers he received from the Police and various government departments suggested he'd be within the law.

[husaberg]

A nice moments of reasoned sanity there. You can bet the Russians will prob never even receive or acknowledge her comment. She’s too young to remember the NZ butter/Lada fiasco....

Russia won’t invade anyway. There troops on border are like patched gang members sitting in a car in street while the prospects go do dirty work and collect debts.
There has been substantial internal skirmishes going on for a long time by rebel groups, many think Ukraine really is still pretty much Russia absent post Cold War changes. Funny how when yanks do same with cia interfering in other countries no one says anything...,,


What an amazing guy this Zelensky chap is from comedian to winning a war against Russia.
Maybe after Trumps second term we could have Chris Rock or Dave Chappell running America.
Jimmy Carr could do nice job of UK and perhaps Usulla Carlson could replace Jacinda.
Keep up the great work Zelensky I think he should be present of the new post war European superstate that will replace the inept UN.


https://youtu.be/pkGbnplg308


An interesting angle on why the west is so reluctant to properly step up to the mark with real assistance, articulated on another website....

Apparentky with Russia’s new superior air defence weapons they are petrified of their flagship f35 “ stealth” fighters being shot down among other technical issues.
It seems a lot of the modern gear mightn’t do what’s says on the sides of the pretty packaging box.....
This kind of meshes well with words of the Tornado pilot whose book I mentioned elsewhere. When they went to gulf war they knew Saddam had heaps of half decent gear but whete horrified at just how much of a fight the air defence systems put up...,

Also it’s kinda ironic that modern nations are in effect virtue signalling by listing the specific amounts of what they are sending. Do politicians realise it’s a war and not just a Facebook status update for nation

Like your idol Taylor Swift, your posts don't date very well.....

[TheDemonLord]

Now obvious caveats that I don't know the sources leanings - but this is something I saw that I thought was interesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qSXAaQc7EI

In short - an armored column got stuck in a Minefield and then hammered by Artillery.

Amongst the vehicles damaged/destroyed is a Leopard 2 A6 (or at least supposedly is) that has been taken out.

This is interesting because in the West - with the dominance of tanks like Abrams and Challenger 2 - we've gotten a bit complacent. I mean Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 have all remained on the same basic chassis since their design. Sure, there have been armor packages, gun upgrades and Systems upgrades (and some of those upgrades are significant improvements) - but we are all running Tanks that were designed in the 70s and built in the 80s.

And in the first Gulf War, they ran roughshod over the Iraqi tanks and in subsequent combat operations Western Tanks have done very well and have an aura of 'invincibility' about them - but seeing a relatively modern Leopard 2 A6 get destroyed is hopefully the wake-up call that the west needs that against 'simple' tactics (Minefield + Arty has been around for over 100 years...), our 'modern' tanks are still vulnerable.

Anyways - not bigging up the russians, not poo-pooing the Ukrainians - just talking Tanks.

[Berries]

And in more tank news .....................russia-claims-it-blew-up-advanced-ukrainian-tank-but-video-shows-its-helicopter-attacked-a-tractor (https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/300902189/russia-claims-it-blew-up-advanced-ukrainian-tank-but-video-shows-its-helicopter-attacked-a-tractor)

[R650R]

Now obvious caveats that I don't know the sources leanings - but this is something I saw that I thought was interesting:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qSXAaQc7EI

In short - an armored column got stuck in a Minefield and then hammered by Artillery.

Amongst the vehicles damaged/destroyed is a Leopard 2 A6 (or at least supposedly is) that has been taken out.

This is interesting because in the West - with the dominance of tanks like Abrams and Challenger 2 - we've gotten a bit complacent. I mean Abrams, Leopard 2 and Challenger 2 have all remained on the same basic chassis since their design. Sure, there have been armor packages, gun upgrades and Systems upgrades (and some of those upgrades are significant improvements) - but we are all running Tanks that were designed in the 70s and built in the 80s.

And in the first Gulf War, they ran roughshod over the Iraqi tanks and in subsequent combat operations Western Tanks have done very well and have an aura of 'invincibility' about them - but seeing a relatively modern Leopard 2 A6 get destroyed is hopefully the wake-up call that the west needs that against 'simple' tactics (Minefield + Arty has been around for over 100 years...), our 'modern' tanks are still vulnerable.

Anyways - not bigging up the russians, not poo-pooing the Ukrainians - just talking Tanks.

Douglas MacGregor (battle of 73 easting fame gulf war) has articulated in many of his interviews that the real issue is the Russians have mastered opsint or basically the art of integrating battlefield real time surveillance communication direct to fire control centres.
Apparently it’s not something they were into before but they worked out how the Ukraine was hammering them early on and adopted it.
The worry in the west is that we have gone opposite way and have too many decision makers in chain of command.
But yes it’s interesting how it’s transformed from close quarters guerilla warfare almost to ww1 style stand-off artillery/ missile bombardment warfare.
And if you translate the same to naval warfare it shows that all those expensive aircraft carriers are just great big targets except when beating up a third world dictator.
It doesn’t matter how flash a weapon system is if the enemy knows where it is and it’s in firing range. Hence the reason why the Russians are so upset about the prospect of a nato/USA missile base on their border, it’s the Cuban missile crisis in reverse. This time we don’t have a competent negotiator like Kennedy in charge.

[Hoonicorn]

Isn't the biggest concern at the moment that countries Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Comoros, Gabon, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Argentina, Bangladesh, Guinea-Bissau and Indonesia are potentially joining Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa to trade oil in Chinese currency, undermining the US dollar's hold on oil sanctions against countries like Russia?

You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?

[TheDemonLord]

You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?

I'm not sure you could say Russia is dragging their feet.

I mean, case in point, the sinking of the Moskva - loosing a capital ship (regardless of which Navy) is always a massive morale dent. I'm reminded of the sinking of HMS Hood from WW2 and the orders to Sink the Bismark! that came after it.

I don't doubt that there are other things going on (there always is) and it's entirely possible that China is making hay whilst the sun is shining.

But yeah - Russia dragging their feet? I think Russia was over-confident, their equipment/maintenance has been shown up for being corrupt, their Logistics weren't up to snuff.

The Ukrainians on the other hand - putting aside all the nice and shiny weapons the West is supplying them with, are putting up a hell of a good fight.

[R650R]

Isn't the biggest concern at the moment that countries Iran, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Cuba, Democratic Republic of Congo, Comoros, Gabon, Kazakhstan, Egypt, Argentina, Bangladesh, Guinea-Bissau and Indonesia are potentially joining Brazil, Russia, India, China and South Africa to trade oil in Chinese currency, undermining the US dollar's hold on oil sanctions against countries like Russia?

You can all watch Russia drag its feet invading Ukraine, but if China (and Russia) has been taking over the global reserve currency in the background, maybe you've been duped by distraction?

It’s only a concern if you haven’t been paying attention to world geo politics for last 20 years. USA has made many of the same mistakes of the Roman’s, over extending themselves with too many expensive foreign operations.
Russia and China have openly being buying gold (real money) in large volume for ages for obvious eventual purposes. Gaddafi was taken out because he was about to create an Arab gold based currency with Iran and eventually others.
For too long we have thought we know best and it’s our way or the Highway…
The real scare thing is that India (quite unstable) will first overtake China as the Emminrnt economic power but eventually Nigeria is set to be a powerhouse purely from the sheer numbers their population is forecast to reach in 50 years time.
When the dust settles BRICS will be a good thing because all the major nations are cultures of trading for mutual gain, not trading with lots of rules to force a monopoly

[Kickaha]

I'm reminded of the sinking of HMS Hood from WW2 and the orders to Sink the Bismark! that came after it.

The Hood was part of the fleet that was already tasked with sinking the Bismarck, it was only after the sinking they expanded the orders to all available vessels