Herald Poll on lane hogs / mobile chicanes.

[george formby]

Not the most exciting thing for Easter but no doubt a few folk are seething at the obstinate happy clappers holding up traffic. AKA, "it's my lane, get fucked."

Herald poll on filtering left even if you are traveling at the speed limit.

No brainer IMHO, keep clear of trouble.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/should-you-move-left-for-speeding-vehicles-the-fierce-debate-about-sitting-at-100kmh-in-highway-right-lane/JXR6QCUY2AQJBTZXINMPQGFNUU/

Comments from Teh Federales on enforcing a filter left rule....... ?:Police:

[caseye]

ZB's Andrew Dickens put his foot fairly in his mouth this week, in the article posted, by saying if he's in the fast lane doing 100K's per hour while slowly ovetaking a line of cars doing 95, then there should not be anyone on his tail honking at him for being so arrogant to think that everyone behind him should not be wanting to exceed the speed limit, LIKE HIM, I've turn him off whenever he comes on ZB these days.
What a tool!
It's like stopping at traffic lights, you don't do it for you, it's so everyone stays safe, while negotiating a dangerous piece/part of our roading system..
More accidents on our open roads caused by thoughtless, arrogant, "if I can't", Nor can they types, than any others.
I sincerely wish that at least 90% of NZ drivers had read the road code (Right through and had some comprehension of it) and adherred to it's preachings, ie, stay to the left at all times where practicable.:Punk::scooter:
I voted Yes.

[george formby]

I sat my licence in the UK and it was pretty emphatic, filter left to allow traffic flow and prevent undertaking and the consequences of moving left if a numpty decides to undertake despite overtaking on the left being naughty.

The UK traffic police used to enforce the filter left rule back in the day, prolly too busy now.

Moving (right) is wonderfully adhered to in Germany so they can have Autobahns to play on.

[nerrrd]

Don’t worry, we’ll all be in self driving cars by around two years ago, problem solved.

[Berries]

Don’t worry, we’ll all be in self driving cars by around two years ago, problem solved.
Current estimate is 2050.



And I don't mean ten to nine.

[Gremlin]

I'm going to put a chunk of the blame on the police and NZTA etc management. Obviously the discussion takes place because two morons can't manage to merge because they were risking their fragile egos. Yes, you'd easily say it's their problem, not anyone else, but let's look deeper.

The police are unapologetic, we target speed. Why do they? Because it's easy and doesn't require a lot of knowledge. Point the gun, is it 10+ over the limit, oooh, you're clubbing seals. So by their own admission, they're not targeting poor/distracted/whatever driving (yes, there might be exceptions, but we're generalising for simplicity). They love trotting out their favourite saying, speed was a factor. Well, if a vehicle is stationary, speed is 0kph in an incident, it's STILL A FACTOR! The lack of depth in understanding is alarming.

NZTA would rather accept shoddy construction/repair practices on roads (like roads breaking up weeks after being laid, and this is hardly a new thing, been going on for years) and burn millions in re-engineering one corner, statistically moving the accident down the road to the next most dangerous corner. Should we a, repair a road we acknowledge is dangerous due to poor quality seal, flushing etc, or b, stick out a slippery surface sign absolving us of any and all blame. If someone crashes, it was probably speed, let's lower the limit (as they're currently doing to 1000+ roads in the Auckland region). I know I've seen something about the majority of incidents taking place below the speed limit, but I can't find it to point to it as a reference...

The government doesn't want to take a hard look at licensing progression, upskilling of drivers and requiring re-assessment, oh, it's too hard, or unpopular, or we can't figure out. End result of this is a radio host displaying either a complete inability to understand the law at best, or a disregard for their fellow motorist at worst, and trying to tell everyone they are justified? If someone thinks they're that much in the right they'd put it out on radio, I don't even want to know what the average person believes. Now let's put a bunch of these immature people with poor driving standards on the roads together and what do we get?

Let's combine this triangle of moron, and wonder why nothing has actually worked in two decades, but we can't figure it out? In the article, there are countries with higher speed limits, more people, and our road deaths per capita are double or more than theirs (UK for eg). Evidently this doesn't make any sense to our management (or perhaps, more correctly, doesn't fit with everything they're trying to tell us), so let's not do anything they're doing (enforcement of lane discipline, licences are costly and require lessons, easy to lose etc), and instead just keep focusing on speed. Even better, now decades later, the result of these policies is now evident in the driving population. Fantastic.

Meanwhile, from my own time on the road (and I'm not on the road professionally - trucker etc) you have drivers that struggle to maintain 60kph on a flowing state highway where the limit is 100kph. Drivers that cause long tail backs of dozens of cars because they never pull over, but will do 55kph on a straight after a corner, where we all have to brake because they're slowing for no valid reason.

Yeah, slightly ranty, but hey, let's all sit back confused why this isn't working. After all, the saying "Only an idiot does the same thing twice expecting a different outcome" doesn't actually have any relevance. Meanwhile people will continue to die for years to come, our officials won't know why, but have had a meeting and set a fantastic goal of 0 deaths...

[Navy Boy]

Yep - An interesting article this one. I see this sort of selfish and non-aware behaviour all the time going in and out of Wellington on SH2. To be honest I expect it now and, if safe to do so, have been known to undertake people in order to make safe(er) progress.

The radio presenter has shown himself to be ignorant, presumably by choice. However he does represent a sizeable chunk of the populous. Having driven and ridden in mainland Europe rather a lot over the years it is true that their drivers and riders 'Get' the benefits of lane discipline far better. The problem for us here in NZ of course is that driver training is always going to be a political hot potato. Imagine if there was a 'Drive Forever' scheme along the lines of our 'Ride Forever' programme? Wouldn't that be good?

[george formby]

Yep - An interesting article this one. I see this sort of selfish and non-aware behaviour all the time going in and out of Wellington on SH2. To be honest I expect it now and, if safe to do so, have been known to undertake people in order to make safe(er) progress.

The radio presenter has shown himself to be ignorant, presumably by choice. However he does represent a sizeable chunk of the populous. Having driven and ridden in mainland Europe rather a lot over the years it is true that their drivers and riders 'Get' the benefits of lane discipline far better. The problem for us here in NZ of course is that driver training is always going to be a political hot potato. Imagine if there was a 'Drive Forever' scheme along the lines of our 'Ride Forever' programme? Wouldn't that be good?

I live in hope but have never met a driver that was any less than "good" and never met one that felt training would make them better or safer.

[onearmedbandit]

and never met one that felt training would make them better or safer.

That bit surprises me, I can't think of anyone I know who would say that. I'm not saying you're wrong though, your experiences are your experiences.

[george formby]

That bit surprises me, I can't think of anyone I know who would say that. I'm not saying you're wrong though, your experiences are your experiences.

:laugh: Factor in the context of a typical car driver complaining about other people on the road and all the experience they have, which has ensured they have only had a few accidents.

Different mindset to most of the bikers I know.

In fairness, I don't start conversations about training, road safety and playing by the rules when it comes to driving. I'm too used to hitting a wall of zero imagination and no fucks given.

[SaferRides]

I used to get annoyed but just pass on the left now. Carefully.

Sent from my SM-G980F using Tapatalk

[Gremlin]

I live in hope but have never met a driver that was any less than "good" and never met one that felt training would make them better or safer.
What's that survey result? 65-70% odd of people think they're above average drivers. Unfortunately... not possible. There will be a few disappointed people.

[rastuscat]

What's that survey result? 65-70% odd of people think they're above average drivers. Unfortunately... not possible. There will be a few disappointed people.

I was working in road safety for a local council a couple of years back. We pitched some money into a research project looking into the attitudes of local drivers about road safety.
2000 drivers were interviewed, and some of the things we learned are

1. People generally think they are better than average drivers. This is largely because they see the errors others are making, but are blind to their own shortcomings.

(High school maths tells me this isn't possible, it's not how averages work)

2. People generally think driver education is a fabulous idea...…..for other people. Very few have seen the need to engage in driver training themselves. Because, of course, they are better than average.

3. When people do undertake driver training, they want to be shown advanced things like skid control, emergency braking etc. Nobody wants to spend $300 on a half day being told how to stop at stop signs, maintain a safe following distance, indicate at roundabouts, head check before changing lanes etc. Nobody places much importance on the basics.

4. When you ask people about road safety issues, the biggest gripe is the dangerous state of the roads. Despite the fact that roads contribute to about 5% of crashes. As opposed to the 95% caused by drivers.

Optimism bias leads us all to believe that crashes will happen, but they won't happen to us. So we don't need to improve.

Sigh.

[george formby]

That sums up my conversations far more eloquently than anything I have posted. Cheers.

[release_the_bees]

The funny thing is that, the more training I've done, the more training I know that I need.

The more training I've done, the lower I'd rate my ability as a rider as I see more and more of my flaws.

I'm attending a gold Ride Forever course tomorrow. I'm sure that I will be going home with a whole bunch more things that I know I need to work on.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

2. People generally think driver education is a fabulous idea...…..for other people. Very few have seen the need to engage in driver training themselves. Because, of course, they are better than average.

3. When people do undertake driver training, they want to be shown advanced things like skid control, emergency braking etc. Nobody wants to spend $300 on a half day being told how to stop at stop signs, maintain a safe following distance, indicate at roundabouts, head check before changing lanes etc. Nobody places much importance on the basics.



That's a very good point.

[george formby]

The funny thing is that, the more training I've done, the more training I know that I need.

The more training I've done, the lower I'd rate my ability as a rider as I see more and more of my flaws.

I'm attending a gold Ride Forever course tomorrow. I'm sure that I will be going home with a whole bunch more things that I know I need to work on.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Yup, but it is a lot of fun. The last one we did was hilarious, far beyond anything I anticipated and I learned heaps.

We should really do another gold course, the 3rd eye always picks up something new to improve.

[Gremlin]

Just remember in regard to courses, its a perishable skill. You don't do a course and get a cert that "lasts" for a decade.

Improving your standard of riding or driving is a life long commitment, constantly analysing what you're doing etc, otherwise its easy to let bad habits creep in (just like the cat mentions, why focus on those silly things like stopping at stop signs, we want skid control! - when it's actually safer to avoid the skid in the first place)...

It's also those basics like head checks and safe following distances that prevent the incidents... how many times do you see on motorway patrol or similar, a person being interviewed, and their idea of what happened is something like: the car in front just suddenly stopped, I had nowhere to go! They are at fault! ... grrr

[Navy Boy]

I was working in road safety for a local council a couple of years back. We pitched some money into a research project looking into the attitudes of local drivers about road safety.
2000 drivers were interviewed, and some of the things we learned are

1. People generally think they are better than average drivers. This is largely because they see the errors others are making, but are blind to their own shortcomings.

(High school maths tells me this isn't possible, it's not how averages work)

2. People generally think driver education is a fabulous idea...…..for other people. Very few have seen the need to engage in driver training themselves. Because, of course, they are better than average.

3. When people do undertake driver training, they want to be shown advanced things like skid control, emergency braking etc. Nobody wants to spend $300 on a half day being told how to stop at stop signs, maintain a safe following distance, indicate at roundabouts, head check before changing lanes etc. Nobody places much importance on the basics.

4. When you ask people about road safety issues, the biggest gripe is the dangerous state of the roads. Despite the fact that roads contribute to about 5% of crashes. As opposed to the 95% caused by drivers.

Optimism bias leads us all to believe that crashes will happen, but they won't happen to us. So we don't need to improve.

Sigh.

Good points there Rastus. I'd not really considered your third point there about what sort of training it is that people want but now that you've mentioned it that does make sense.

I recently did another RE Gold course over in Nelson - They aren't my usual riding routes so the course was perhaps of more benefit and the slow speed stuff showed me that I need to practice that more often :niceone: