Akaroa GP faces new hazards

[Grumph]

I see that new speed limits are going up on this road. 60kph over the hilltop as an example.
I've no quibble with 50kph through Little River - and for sure there have been a lot of accidents on this road.
But if we take this as an early outlier of the speed limit changes we've been promised, it doesn't look good.

So - when the days get longer and warmer and you feel like a fang to Akaroa, think carefully and be observant for new signs.

[Shoshoni]

Here's some information on subject
https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/128615401/new-speed-limits-on-roads-connecting-christchurch-and-akaroa

[rastuscat]

It always amuses me how we grizzle about how shitty drivers are in this country, then we grizzle about how the agencies want us all to slow down.

It's almost as if we are happy for shitty drivers to go faster.

I don't like the speed limit reductions, but they are almost inevitable, given the standards of driving in this country.

[HenryDorsetCase]

80kph Halswell to Cooptown and 60kph over the hill. I spit on your societal constraints. I do what I want. Having said that I've been over maybe twice this summer: once early on when it was covered in gravel from the winter and once just before or just after christmas. The only part of it I enjoy is the right turn going up out of Cooptown, and the flat bends out of Tai Tapu.

Too many numpties to press on on that road now. It used to be if you pickedyour time you could have an unimpeded run at it but you've always had to be conscious of just how unforgiving it is if you fuck up.

Not related: I'd like to do more trackdays (not race): same thrills but no speed cameras and if you do fuck it all up you are less likely to die. Can any numpty hire Ruapuna?

[jellywrestler]

It always amuses me how we grizzle about how shitty drivers are in this country, then we grizzle about how the agencies want us all to slow down.

It's almost as if we are happy for shitty drivers to go faster.

I don't like the speed limit reductions, but they are almost inevitable, given the standards of driving in this country.

how many accidents are caused on windy roads by people constantly checking their speedos?

[R650R]

It always amuses me how we grizzle about how shitty drivers are in this country, then we grizzle about how the agencies want us all to slow down.

It's almost as if we are happy for shitty drivers to go faster.

I don't like the speed limit reductions, but they are almost inevitable, given the standards of driving in this country.

But if you apply OSH approved risk analysis used in workplace it increases the danger.
You plot incidents on a graph with two axis to give it a score.
One axis is the risk on a particular road.
Second axis is time spent on that road.
If you spend more time on that road either through more use or lengthening your journey you increase your risk of a crash as you will be exposed to more oncoming motorists.

Just look at drag racing, 400mph and severe risks but it’s only for 4-6 seconds several times in a day vs say 8hrs of 100mph Bathurst v8 racing.

That’s all a bit tongue in cheek I admit. I think the variable speed limits as per ngairanga gorge and Kaimais is an acceptable car solution but we can’t keep having these sledgehammers reactionary 24/7 limits when the bulk of exposure risk is during certain times where basically traffic volumes and cabbage drivers create a defective lower limit anyway.

[nzspokes]

how many accidents are caused on windy roads by people constantly checking their speedos?

None. HTH.

[neels]

how many accidents are caused on windy roads by people constantly checking their speedos?
It certainly adds to distracted driving.

The other thing I've experienced with the infinitely variable speed limits is that I'm wondering if the guy monstering me from behind in his Ford Ranger is just an arsehole, or I've lost track of what the last speed limit sign was that I saw and I'm pootling 20k below the current limit. At various times both have been the case.

What the speed limit is used to be pretty simple, now driving on open road it might be 60,70,80 or 100 in various places, and you just have to hope you see the signs when driving over an alpine pass at night in the pissing rain.

[Berries]

The other thing I've experienced with the infinitely variable speed limits is that I'm wondering if the guy monstering me from behind in his Ford Ranger is just an arsehole, or I've lost track of what the last speed limit sign was that I saw and I'm pootling 20k below the current limit. At various times both have been the case.
Someone can correct me but the 2022 Rule that has just been signed does not appear to have the requirements for repeater signs in it like the old Rule - nearly lunch and can't be arsed reading it in full right now. Used to be that if not 50 or 100 you needed repeater signs every 2km (or whatever based on two minutes of travel time). I would suggest that all of these new speed limits between 50 and 100 will provide plenty of opportunities to defend a speed ticket for valid reasons.

Like you, I have driven past a speed limit sign and had to look at the back of it to see what the speed limit was in the section I was just in. It is only going to get worse.

The solution to this is to drop the national speed limit to 80km/h and require repeater signs on 100km/h roads. Can't see anyone with the balls to do that.

[BMWST?]

with the new Sh1 (TG)now in use i have been over it two or three times .I dont recall seeig a speed limit sign ANYWHERE on it,maybe one as you first go on at Linden heading north. With it being quite steep in places there is more speed variation on that road than most other highways,except Ngauraunga gorge. trouble is one is 27 km long and the ohter is maybe 2 km

[Gremlin]

Someone can correct me but the 2022 Rule that has just been signed does not appear to have the requirements for repeater signs in it like the old Rule - nearly lunch and can't be arsed reading it in full right now.
This is an interesting one, and I believe you're correct. New regulation 2022 comes into effect 19th May, removing 2017.

2017 Setting of speed limits: https://nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/rules/docs/setting-speed-limits-2017.pdf
2022 Setting of speed limits: https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/rules/docs/setting-speed-limits-2022.pdf

Repeaters are listed in 2017 in section 9.2 (Signs and markings), and Schedule 1 lists the maximum road length. For 2022, Signs are now Section 8 and roads are now referred to with minimum road length.

2022 Section 8.2.(2) does say

When installing speed limit signs,a road controlling authority must have regard to the Agency’s guidance on maximum lengths between speed limit signs.

No idea where that is...

[merv]

None. HTH.

For sure, but what about looking at their phones?

[jellywrestler]

Repeaters are listed in 2017 in section 9.2 (Signs and markings), and Schedule 1 lists the maximum road length. For 2022, Signs are now Section 8 and roads are now referred to with minimum road length.

2022 Section 8.2.(2) does say


No idea where that is...

it used to be for 80kmh they had to be every 2.6 km and for 70 2.3km, got off more than one ticket by carrying the correct paperwork and pointing it out to the law.

[Berries]

No idea where that is...
Given the exodus of NZTA people who knew shit I imagine it is not anywhere. Yet. I am sure they will slip in an addendum to the Speed Management Guide or the TCD Rule to cover it off. Until then the "Agency's guidance" will continue to be in the 2017 Rule.

[R650R]

All that stuff about signage.... pertains to what the RCA must or should do. I don’t think that in itself would be enough for a judge to dismissing a speed ticket.
A major part of your problem would be the whole defence based on not enough signs. As to claim that you are not committing an offence as you thought limit was higher is a defacto admission of your speed. And once you “confess” to exceeding limit you really have no defence.
Although we had a bunch thrown out in the bay as the council left a 70k temp limit up so long it wasn’t temporary anymore that’s a bit different.

[Berries]

All that stuff about signage.... pertains to what the RCA must or should do. I donÂ’t think that in itself would be enough for a judge to dismissing a speed ticket.
A major part of your problem would be the whole defence based on not enough signs. As to claim that you are not committing an offence as you thought limit was higher is a defacto admission of your speed. And once you “confess” to exceeding limit you really have no defence.
You're wrong. The underlying rural speed limit is 100km/h. If an RCA makes it 80 they need to inform you and they need to repeatedly tell you it is 80 because there are no visual clues to help a driver tell whether it is 80 or 100. Now you have no idea what the speed limit is based on your visuals and the surrounding environment. If I get pinged for doing 100 in an 80 and I didn't know it was an 80 I will be fighting the ticket. It was easy when it was 50 in town, 100 in the country and 70 in the built up bits between. Now, who the hell knows?

You wont get off a ticket if the sign was 50m from its legal position because a judge will tell you the sign is the sign and a member of the public should simply rely on what the sign says rather than some bylaw or gazette notice. If there are no signs, or no repeater signs at the maximum spacing as previously advised by the Agency then a motorist can naturally assume the speed limit is the open road 100km/h limit. That is why they have the requirement for repeater signs every two minutes of travel. To be honest I am not even sure if that is sufficient, the two minute thing was made up by someone in Wellington years ago. No idea if it has ever been tested in court. I am sure it will be with the de factor 80km/h rural speed limit slowly being pushed through, and the 60km/h speed limit on unsealed roads which is bubbling away in the background.

[R650R]

I think your wrong there. With so many lifestyle blocks, degrading of roads it would be wrong to assume all rural roads are 100k these days. There has been ample media coverage of many speed limit reductions.
Ignorance of a relevant law is no defence in court as our legal studies teacher used to love mentioning at high school and she was a former clerk of court herself.
Assuming you live in town you increase your speed from 50k when you see the 100k sign not when you think oh this looks rural.
I can’t think of any route I travel regularly where there are sign s every two minutes of travel.
Of note one of my routes to on work goes from 50k to 80k 200m before a t junction. Now following the stuff on the other page that 80k limit is illegal as it’s less than the specified minimum distance before the next seperate road. The cops could use this in reverse!
I would nearly pay to watch you debate this in court. Because unless it’s a road that youve never travelled before it would be nigh on impossible to claim you were speeding because you didn’t know the limit. And if it’s a road new to you then your failed to pay attention when entering.
Depending on your vehicle you may have satnav which auto alerts posted speed limits also.
Anyhow this is all irrelevant when in a few months Jacinda introduces MyDriver app which will sound alarms and auto fine you for speeding as part of road to zero.

[Gremlin]

I would nearly pay to watch you debate this in court. Because unless it’s a road that youve never travelled before it would be nigh on impossible to claim you were speeding because you didn’t know the limit. And if it’s a road new to you then your failed to pay attention when entering.
The other problem is, with all the new limits, I've encountered quite a few scenarios where speed limit signs are missing, meaning there are roads that have different limits in each direction...

[rastuscat]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

[jellywrestler]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

you'd think that the new zealand mapping folks and the speed limit people would be able to talk to each other so GPS data is bang on wouldn't you?

[SaferRides]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed. [emoji3]

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[Gremlin]

you'd think that the new zealand mapping folks and the speed limit people would be able to talk to each other so GPS data is bang on wouldn't you?
Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

[Berries]

I think your wrong there. With so many lifestyle blocks, degrading of roads it would be wrong to assume all rural roads are 100k these days. There has been ample media coverage of many speed limit reductions.
Ignorance of a relevant law is no defence in court as our legal studies teacher used to love mentioning at high school and she was a former clerk of court herself.
If you are not in an urban area and there are no speed limit signs, and there have been no speed limit signs for lets say 5km, then you can assume that the speed limit is 100km/h because that is what the rules say. If you are not told about the relevant law, ie a different speed limit, then you cannot comply with it. That is not being ignorant, that is not being informed and if you are not informed it cannot be enforced.


I canÂ’t think of any route I travel regularly where there are signs every two minutes of travel.
If the speed limit is not 50 or 100km/h then on part of those routes the speed limit cannot be legally enforced. Oh yes, you may well get a ticket but if the speed limit is not signed as per the rules then it would not stand up in court. It can't, that is the point of the Rule.


Of note one of my routes to on work goes from 50k to 80k 200m before a t junction. Now following the stuff on the other page that 80k limit is illegal as itÂ’s less than the specified minimum distance before the next seperate road.
I am guessing the main road must have an 80km/h speed limit and when you turn on to the side road it becomes 50 after 200m? Nothing wrong with that. See section 3.3 of the 2017 Rule, specifically 3.3(2).

https://nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/rules/docs/setting-speed-limits-2017.pdf

In fact read it all, you'll learn quite a bit.

[jellywrestler]

Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

my gps has a speed sign at the bottom, it goes orange when you exceed it and i think red when over by a fair bit. that's what i use to drive with mostly, but some of the data loaded means the signs aren't always in the right places. Odd as it also registers road works which are in real time, and road closures

[jellywrestler]

One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed. [emoji3]

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really? the speed signs have a big round red thing, the others don't. That's only one level of change, nowadays there's many different steps before we are allowed an open road sign, and now they even have one beyond the black and white

[jellywrestler]

Some of the GPS tools don't support setting speeds on roads. That said, car tech is moving to the point that it can read speed limit signs for you...

only if it's there, and that's part of the story here, missing signs.

[R650R]

One possible reason is that the unrestricted sign (black diagonal line) is more obvious that a sign stating a speed. [emoji3]

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That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related....

These used to be used a lot when common sense was a lot more common and local authorities didn’t want to restrict motorists in off peak times. Never mind that back then a cop wouldnt ticket you for 12k over limit at 4am anyway....
Now there’s so much chain of accountability I think authorities are reluctant to use them.

[Berries]

That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related.....
You are wrong again. A Limited Speed Zone was signed with a sign that had LSZ on it. They have all gone, or at least they should have as they don't exist in legislation any more.

The derestricted sign simply means the national speed limit applies, which is 100km/h.

In the old days Transit started using signs with 100 on them to imply those state highways were safe to travel on at 100km/h. Problem was all the councils then started dropping the derestricted sign and putting 100 signs up as well. If they had left them the government could have simply said the national speed limit is now 80km/h and suddenly those roads would be 80 with no need to change the signs.

The derestricted sign and the 100km/h sign mean exactly the same thing, the speed limit is 100km/h. I have always contended that there is an implied message with the derestricted sign of 'when it is safe' but that is what the 100 sign means anyway.

See page 5 and 6 - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/motsam/part-1/docs/motsam-1-section-02.pdf

To say you are or were a professional driver I would have thought you would have a better understanding of the road rules. Is it you doing 70 in the rain on the open road holding everyone up?

[SaferRides]

That sign does not equal no restriction. It’s a Limited Speed Zone which is 100k when road conditions are perfect but the limit drops to 50 or 70? If;
Poor visibility
Bad weather
Congestion with lots of cars bikes or pedestrians about
Cant remember all the factors but safety related....

These used to be used a lot when common sense was a lot more common and local authorities didn’t want to restrict motorists in off peak times. Never mind that back then a cop wouldnt ticket you for 12k over limit at 4am anyway....
Now there’s so much chain of accountability I think authorities are reluctant to use them.This one:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220515/fc3b26c72cf13f2f37d72102c1601ed5.jpg

It really means no speed limit. I wonder how many German tourists have been confused by its use here.

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[Moi]

...
See page 5 and 6 - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/assets/resources/motsam/part-1/docs/motsam-1-section-02.pdf
...

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

For the RG-1 sign [any speed from 10 to 90] there is provision for a road marking to be used. Despite a driver's or rider's best efforts it is always possible to miss a speed change, indicated by a sign placed on the side[s] of the road, so why are so few also indicated by a road marking? You are less likely to miss a road marking than a sign on the side of the road.

It's common overseas, so why so few here?

I expect the answer is cost...

[SaferRides]

See page 5 and 6 - https://www.nzta.govt.nz/asset...1/docs/motsam-1-section-02.pdf

That is interesting as I have wondered whether the 100 or derestricted is preferred. RG-2 is 100, RG-2.1 is derestricted.

"RG-2 signs are preferred and should be installed in situations where the alignment and nature of the road in the vicinity of the sign generally permits safe travel speeds of 100 km/h. Where this is not possible RG-2.1 signs may be used."




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[SaferRides]

Interesting read, thanks for the link.

For the RG-1 sign [any speed from 10 to 90] there is provision for a road marking to be used. Despite a driver's or rider's best efforts it is always possible to miss a speed change, indicated by a sign placed on the side[s] of the road, so why are so few also indicated by a road marking? You are less likely to miss a road marking than a sign on the side of the road.

It's common overseas, so why so few here?

I expect the answer is cost...Agreed. I missed more than one 60 or 80 sign at the start of a reduced speed limit zone during a recent tour of the South Island. One could have been very embarrassing, as I went past a subsequent 60 a little faster than that!

I did realise later that the chances of seeing a police car were actually very remote, except in the McKenzie country.



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[Berries]

It's common overseas, so why so few here?
The sign is say $400 installed and should last 15 years. Factor in current traffic management requirements and the need to repaint a road marking every year or so and it will cost many times more than a sign.

Best off using oversize signs and putting them on both sides of the road if you really want people to see the speed limit change and comply with it.



That is interesting as I have wondered whether the 100 or derestricted is preferred. RG-2 is 100, RG-2.1 is derestricted.

"RG-2 signs are preferred and should be installed in situations where the alignment and nature of the road in the vicinity of the sign generally permits safe travel speeds of 100 km/h. Where this is not possible RG-2.1 signs may be used."
I wonder how many RG2.1 signs have been made in the last few years, they seem pretty rare on my travels. There are plenty of roads out there "where the alignment and nature of the road in the vicinity of the sign generally" does not "permit safe travel speeds of 100 km/h" that now have RG2 signs installed.

There is possibly a research project there for someone looking at the impact of the change in that one sign. Has using numerals instead of the black stripe made the speed limit more of a target and resulted in more crashes? I imagine I could massage the numbers to show that it has.

[Moi]

The sign is say $400 installed and should last 15 years. Factor in current traffic management requirements and the need to repaint a road marking every year or so and it will cost many times more than a sign.

Best off using oversize signs and putting them on both sides of the road if you really want people to see the speed limit change and comply with it.

Thank you. Guessed it would be a cost issue, interesting to hear what signs cost as opposed to road markings. Explains why more oversize signs are seen.

So, do road markings have to be repainted on a regular timeframe or when they need it?

[SaferRides]

The sign is say $400 installed and should last 15 years. Factor in current traffic management requirements and the need to repaint a road marking every year or so and it will cost many times more than a sign.

Best off using oversize signs and putting them on both sides of the road if you really want people to see the speed limit change and comply with it.
.

There is a requirement for signs on both sides of the road above a certain traffic volume. But why not do it anyway? I suspect I missed at least one sign because I was overtaking. [emoji3]



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[Gremlin]

my gps has a speed sign at the bottom, it goes orange when you exceed it and i think red when over by a fair bit. that's what i use to drive with mostly, but some of the data loaded means the signs aren't always in the right places. Odd as it also registers road works which are in real time, and road closures
Yep, Garmin maps had them when I tested years ago, and most were incorrect. :laugh:
The NZ Open GPS map project (Garmin compatible) isn't able through restrictions in the mapping tools, to implement speed advisories.

[Berries]

So, do road markings have to be repainted on a regular timeframe or when they need it?
Would depend on the contract. A performance based contract would say they need doing whenever they need doing which can be quite subjective so the contractor will push it out as far as possible while the RCA will always want it done sooner. The alternative is an annual remark, or whatever specified period for an area or a road, which means some markings will get redone before they actually need it and others might not get done when they do need it. Pros and cons for each.

[Navy Boy]

Something else which I've seen elsewhere are warning signs for a lower speed limit coming up. Similar to the distance warning signs for a Give Way with 300m, 200m and so on. Years ago when riding around Scotland these seemed to be very popular and are a really good idea. Some used a number for the distance whilst others used the 3 lines, 2 lines and so on as found on the motorways when approaching a junction.

Particularly when you're on a bendy road where new limits could be, quite literally, just around the corner these were of particular use. :niceone:

[jellywrestler]

Yep, Garmin maps had them when I tested years ago, and most were incorrect. :laugh:
The NZ Open GPS map project (Garmin compatible) isn't able through restrictions in the mapping tools, to implement speed advisories.

my partners a cartographer and at her last company she would update stuff while we were travelling, but it doesn't seem a priority to get them bang on, odd, if you put in a speed limit it's just as easy to put it in the right place, they are getting better at it, but it's still not a quick process.

[roogazza]

I've been looking at the thread heading "Akaroa GP " and wondering if any of the older riders on here remember the Rimutaka GP's of old ????
I started fanging over there in the mid to late 60's ! I have lots of old fart meme 's of riding that road..

and will always remember from as early as 1968 .
I was on my trusty YDS3 waiting for a mate at Te Marua on a early Sunday morning. We were heading to a Sprint at the Loopline in the Rapa.....
I heard a beaut noise and thought whats that? Flying by was Mel Wrigley on one of the first Triumph Tridents, you know the original green ones. Always remember that ! What a beaut sound.

The Hutt Valley bred some really good racers in the 1970's and I think the Tukas were probably partly responsible for improving riders....
The Kaitoki's were a good warm up before the hill as well.....I can even remember a couple of TZ's being unloaded on a Sunday morning once !!!!!!! ridden over to Featherston and back !!

as you were : lol.

[SaferRides]

I still have not ridden over the Rimutakas. My last drive was in a rental Camy hybrid, which took understeer to a new level!

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[Berries]

Used to fang it over the hill to Martinborough every weekend in the late 90's on an FZR600. Having a heavy bag of parachute gear hanging off a Ventura pack made the handling somewhat lively.

They must have ruined it by now with a sub 180km/h speed limit and yellow lines down the middle.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I've been looking at the thread heading "Akaroa GP " and wondering if any of the older riders on here remember the Rimutaka GP's of old ????
I started fanging over there in the mid to late 60's ! I have lots of old fart meme 's of riding that road..

and will always remember from as early as 1968 .
I was on my trusty YDS3 waiting for a mate at Te Marua on a early Sunday morning. We were heading to a Sprint at the Loopline in the Rapa.....
I heard a beaut noise and thought whats that? Flying by was Mel Wrigley on one of the first Triumph Tridents, you know the original green ones. Always remember that ! What a beaut sound.

The Hutt Valley bred some really good racers in the 1970's and I think the Tukas were probably partly responsible for improving riders....
The Kaitoki's were a good warm up before the hill as well.....I can even remember a couple of TZ's being unloaded on a Sunday morning once !!!!!!! ridden over to Featherston and back !!

as you were : lol.

I am younger than you and my days of the Remutaka GP were in the early to mid 80's - I left Wellington in 1988. One memory I have is thinking I was going quick over the hill one day when I was passed by a silver blur. Didnt see who it was or what he was riding. I was later told it was one of the Hiscock brothers "running in" a new Katana before it got turned into a racebike. Not sure if true. Good lesson though: there's always someone better than you - unless you're Freddie Spencer. I had the same lesson at Ruapuna on a trackday a few years ago when I was flat out at the end of the back straight and was passed by Dennis Charlett on one side and Ryan Hampton on the other going at least 60kph faster than me.

[sugilite]

I am younger than you and my days of the Remutaka GP were in the early to mid 80's - I left Wellington in 1988. One memory I have is thinking I was going quick over the hill one day when I was passed by a silver blur. Didnt see who it was or what he was riding. I was later told it was one of the Hiscock brothers "running in" a new Katana before it got turned into a racebike. Not sure if true. Good lesson though: there's always someone better than you - unless you're Freddie Spencer. I had the same lesson at Ruapuna on a trackday a few years ago when I was flat out at the end of the back straight and was passed by Dennis Charlett on one side and Ryan Hampton on the other going at least 60kph faster than me.

It is likely true, the Hiscock brothers were well known fans of the takas. :yes:

[roogazza]

It is likely true, the Hiscock brothers were well known fans of the takas. :yes:

The stories are endless from those maniac days, from an old man 's memories the Hill was ten miles bridge to bridge. 4 one side and 6 the other....
You basically used the whole road from cliff to fence ! How we survived , I shake my head !! lol.
(i'm glad I stopped going over there about ten years ago,far too old to be doing that stuff). :crazy::crazy:

[jellywrestler]

The stories are endless from those maniac days, from an old man 's memories the Hill was ten miles bridge to bridge. 4 one side and 6 the other....
You basically used the whole road from cliff to fence ! How we survived , I shake my head !! lol.
(i'm glad I stopped going over there about ten years ago,far too old to be doing that stuff). :crazy::crazy:

there's still riders doing that, thinking they are Kenny Rodgers. They think everyone in cars is switched onto their drive just as sharply as them too, not hungover as fuck returning the kids to the ex's place with them arguing with each other in the back seat etc.

[F5 Dave]

I was trying to lace together a witty post using Kenny Roger songs, but I don't really know any, although I think the Gambler is one. That would have been useful.

[rastuscat]

I had a couple of guys out on a Bronze yesterday, we were riding from Lyttelton through to Governors Bay.

I was watching the mirrors (as always) and saw an unfamiliar sight coming from behind us.

We got overtaken by a Harley Pan America.

As I sit here this morning pondering the dent in my ego from being overtaken by a Harley, I must say, that bike carved the corners really well.

We were at the speed limit, the Pan was doing a bit more, the guy was riding really fluently.

Might pop into Rolling Thunder at some stage, my resistance is thawing.

[onearmedbandit]

While I'll never sell the GSXR I'm looking at the complete opposite end of the market for my next fix, got my eye on a new KTM Duke 390. Lots of fun without the risk of losing ones license in 1st gear. And after watching some of my exploits on the aforementioned road in some video's I found the other night I really think it's a wise move.

[rastuscat]

While I'll never sell the GSXR I'm looking at the complete opposite end of the market for my next fix, got my eye on a new KTM Duke 390. Lots of fun without the risk of losing ones license in 1st gear. And after watching some of my exploits on the aforementioned road in some video's I found the other night I really think it's a wise move.

Adapting the controls will be interesting. Again. For sure, it's more fun to ride a less powerful bike faster, than to ride a more powerful bike slower.

[roogazza]

there's still riders doing that, thinking they are Kenny Rodgers.

Cheers Spyda, I was careful not to mention any stopwatch times to cover the "Hill". That would for sure encourage any would be Kenny Rodgers', to above and beyond sillyness !!!
:eek::shutup::shutup::msn-wink:

[onearmedbandit]

Adapting the controls will be interesting. Again. For sure, it's more fun to ride a less powerful bike faster, than to ride a more powerful bike slower.

Yeah this one will not be as easy to convert as the GSXR, fly-by-wire throttle means I can't easily swap out the throttle assembly for a smaller unit to accommodate the clutch perch, then there's the indicators, hi/lo and horn to consider as well. And then the TFT screens menu controls, but they are not required for use when riding so access is not so important. I want to use this bike for more day to day riding, the thou isn't exactly motivating me to commute in the city more.

And then there's the reward of riding a slow bike fast over that off riding a fast bike slow.

[Navy Boy]

I had a couple of guys out on a Bronze yesterday, we were riding from Lyttelton through to Governors Bay.

I was watching the mirrors (as always) and saw an unfamiliar sight coming from behind us.

We got overtaken by a Harley Pan America.

As I sit here this morning pondering the dent in my ego from being overtaken by a Harley, I must say, that bike carved the corners really well.

We were at the speed limit, the Pan was doing a bit more, the guy was riding really fluently.

Might pop into Rolling Thunder at some stage, my resistance is thawing.

Ooh... Do let us know what you think if you swing your leg over one of those. My dealer (Filco's in Nelson - not had good experiences there in the past) puts me off actively chasing one of these but I'm very curious as to the reality of what they are like.

[pete376403]

Cheers Spyda, I was careful not to mention any stopwatch times to cover the "Hill". That would for sure encourage any would be Kenny Rodgers', to above and beyond sillyness !!!
:eek::shutup::shutup::msn-wink:


Kenny Rogers? Suggesting the ride over the hill is a gamble? That you have to know when to walk away or know when to run? Maybe you were thinking of Kenny Roberts :-)

[SaferRides]

Backing up a few posts to the discussion on speed limit signs, I rode up the Thames coast at the weekend. Anyone familiar with the road will have some idea how many speed restrictions there are, and almost all had unrestricted signs where the restrictions ended. In most cases, it probably wasn't a great idea to accelerate straight to 100.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[pritch]

Backing up a few posts to the discussion on speed limit signs, I rode up the Thames coast at the weekend. Anyone familiar with the road will have some idea how many speed restrictions there are, and almost all had unrestricted signs where the restrictions ended. In most cases, it probably wasn't a great idea to accelerate straight to 100.



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

I used to drive up there a couple of times a year, once you get past Kaiaua going north it did get quite stop/go. And they've had a year or two to add more since.

[jellywrestler]

Cheers Spyda, I was careful not to mention any stopwatch times to cover the "Hill". That would for sure encourage any would be Kenny Rodgers', to above and beyond sillyness !!!
:eek::shutup::shutup::msn-wink:

I only put one lap record in my book covering 157 road racing circuits, the ammunition track which is long gone, didn't want to be blamed for people trying to better them....
shows you my social responsibility

[jellywrestler]

Kenny Rogers? Suggesting the ride over the hill is a gamble? That you have to know when to walk away or know when to run? Maybe you were thinking of Kenny Roberts :-)

hook line and sinker

[Gremlin]

I used to drive up there a couple of times a year, once you get past Kaiaua going north it did get quite stop/go. And they've had a year or two to add more since.
Kaiaua is on the western side of the firth, Thames is on the eastern (Coromandel) side...

[=cJ=]

Funny how many folk always manage to see the signs which allow them to go faster, but fail to see the ones that tell them to go slower, then grizzle about it.

Well, given you mention it, seems to happen to me.

"This guys closing a bit quick, did he just pass and give me the stink eye, what a dick..."

...get to next speed sign...

"oooh, my bad".

/disappears to lurk for a few more years...

[rastuscat]

Worth a read.

https://abley.com/abley-insights/are-the-opponents-of-safer-speed-limits-addicted-to-speed/

[jellywrestler]

Worth a read.

https://abley.com/abley-insights/are-the-opponents-of-safer-speed-limits-addicted-to-speed/

it's just so hard to concentrate when the speed limits are dropped again and again, it's not a target, but when you are constantly driving spending time looking at your speedo it's tiresome.

[jellywrestler]

Worth a read.

https://abley.com/abley-insights/are-the-opponents-of-safer-speed-limits-addicted-to-speed/

be interesting to see now there is next to no traffic on the centennial highway out of wellington whther they put the limit back up to 100km/h, it was dropped before the cheesecutters were put in, now transmission gully is there there's only a tiny usage.

[rastuscat]

be interesting to see now there is next to no traffic on the centennial highway out of wellington whether they put the limit back up to 100km/h, it was dropped before the cheesecutters were put in, now transmission gully is there there's only a tiny usage.

I've driven and ridden that road, and even cycled up the cycle lane. It's not fit for 100 kmh, even with the barriers. Sure, bits of it might be, but most of it aren't.

[Berries]

be interesting to see now there is next to no traffic on the centennial highway out of wellington whther they put the limit back up to 100km/h, it was dropped before the cheesecutters were put in, now transmission gully is there there's only a tiny usage.
80 is the new 100 so you just have to get used to it. They used the lack of separation as the sole reason to drop the speed limit from 100 to 80 past the old Carisbrook in Dunedin and then a few years later put a barrier down the middle. Speed limit still 80 with a good proportion of traffic basing their speed on the surrounding environment - multi lane, median divided, no intersections etc - so travelling at 100. Obvious result being it becomes a fishing spot for the Police instead of having the speed limit reflect reality and the safety risk.

Some interesting research here which links speed with enjoyment which is something that rarely gets mentioned in a road safety conversation - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847822000195

[rastuscat]

80 is the new 100 so you just have to get used to it. They used the lack of separation as the sole reason to drop the speed limit from 100 to 80 past the old Carisbrook in Dunedin and then a few years later put a barrier down the middle. Speed limit still 80 with a good proportion of traffic basing their speed on the surrounding environment - multi lane, median divided, no intersections etc - so travelling at 100. Obvious result being it becomes a fishing spot for the Police instead of having the speed limit reflect reality and the safety risk.

Some interesting research here which links speed with enjoyment which is something that rarely gets mentioned in a road safety conversation - https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1369847822000195

Interesting article. It seems to suggest that roads are there for entertainment, as many of us believe.

Unfortunately, it's not a view held in road safety groups.

[neels]

Interesting article. It seems to suggest that roads are there for entertainment, as many of us believe..
Or alternatively looking at the enjoyment people derive from using roads, which might be for functional or entertainment reasons, and how that affects safety outcomes.

A human is much more likely to be engaged in what they are doing if they are also enjoying what they are doing, an underutilised brain will find something else to amuse itself with away from and probably to the detriment of the primary task.

Someone who loves their lawn and loves mowing their lawn will do a much better job (and probably be less likely to run over the chrysanthemums) than someone who is mowing the lawn because it keeps growing and they have to.

The discussions seem to be around the amount of harm done due to the speed, rather than the number of accidents, almost as if it's OK to fall asleep from boredom and crash because if you do you're going so slowly it won't kill you.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Lets organise a proper old school Cannonball run on the Akaroa GP course like the good old days. Couple of hundred bikes, massed start, flat out. I spit on speed limits. What about my freedums? I didnt spend all that time camping at parliament and throwing bricks at cops to take any notice of your speed limits. I am a self appointed Sheriff. Of the community, and I say speed limits are bullshit and unenforceable because of the second amendment and the Admiralty flag. I am a person not a corporation and I do not consent.

[F5 Dave]

Well I'd vote for you - if elections were necessary , and not stolen by the elite.

[mulletman]

Last Sunday morn the Lake flies were out in force columns and columns of the feckers never seen them swarm like that messy bastards, natural speed deterrent.

[jellywrestler]

I've driven and ridden that road, and even cycled up the cycle lane. It's not fit for 100 kmh, even with the barriers. Sure, bits of it might be, but most of it aren't.

and the rimutakas, wanganui river road is? there's loads of roads that you can't even reach the 100 limit, yet they still are.
it was suitable before, the only reason they dropped the limit was because of a head on where they did no investigation to it's cause whatsoever, they dropped it before the funerals.

[pete376403]

and the rimutakas, wanganui river road is? there's loads of roads that you can't even reach the 100 limit, yet they still are.
it was suitable before, the only reason they dropped the limit was because of a head on where they did no investigation to it's cause whatsoever, they dropped it before the funerals.

Much like the road between Blenheim and Nelson - was 100Km,H for a long time then a few crashes in close succession and "something had to be done". Even though (as I was told) one of the crashes was a suicide so, not like a speed limit of any number is going to change that and another of the crashes was two drivers racing, so again, not like any limit is going to be obeyed.

[rastuscat]

I am a person not a corporation and I do not consent.

Best wishes with that.

[rastuscat]

Much like the road between Blenheim and Nelson - was 100Km,H for a long time then a few crashes in close succession and "something had to be done". .

Thing is, legislatively the speed limit on every road was 100 kmh. Unless a specific piece of legislation was used to reduce it. It's how speed limits were set back in the day. By default, we used to start from 100 kmh, and work from there.

So we have ended up with a lot of roads which, knowing what we know now and from international experience, are not really suitable for the 100 kmh speed limit we have.

SH75 used to be 100 kmh up and over the hill, going up from Cooptown. Few if any could do 100 kmh on that piece of road. Many who tried got an ACC funded taxi back to Chch hospital. So the Akaroa Road became a touch point for road safety advocates to target speed reductions to there. Do you really think they did that with no reason?

Just because a road has always had a speed limit of 100 doesn't mean it should be that way. There are gravel roads around where I live with 100 kmh speed limits. Another example is the state highway known as the Devils Staircase. 100 kmh, but few if any ever manage that speed on the majority of that segment.

International experience is that open roads with the only separation between opposing vehicles being a stripe of paint should have a speed limit no greater than 70 - 80 kmh. It's far more survivable, in the event of a crash.

And that's the key. Nobody ever thinks they are going to crash. It's called optimism bias. Where we think it won't happen to us. But each day crashes happen to people who think it won't happen to them.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimism_bias

Remember also, that kinetic energy is a product of mass times speed squared. So small increases in speed have a large increase in the kinetic energy imparted in a crash.

Of course, that's no problem, as none of us think we are going to crash.

[rastuscat]

and the rimutakas, wanganui river road is? there's loads of roads that you can't even reach the 100 limit, yet they still are. it was suitable before,.

Actually no. See my other post. Lots of roads with 100 kmh speed limits should have lower speed limits. We know more now about trauma reduction that we did back when speed limits were first set.

[jellywrestler]

Much like the road between Blenheim and Nelson - was 100Km,H for a long time then a few crashes in close succession and "something had to be done". Even though (as I was told) one of the crashes was a suicide so, not like a speed limit of any number is going to change that and another of the crashes was two drivers racing, so again, not like any limit is going to be obeyed.

to me it's worse, you get stuck behind a truck as they are 90km limited with no real long distance vision to see issues arising, not fuck all passing lanes either added and there will be a few surprises for people when suddenly the truck they are following in a day dream stops, there's three reactions if caught short, shunt it, left into a ditch or right into what?

[jellywrestler]

Actually no. See my other post. Lots of roads with 100 kmh speed limits should have lower speed limits. We know more now about trauma reduction that we did back when speed limits were first set.

don't disagree, but the trauma reduction was effectively halved with the cheeses cutter install. doesn't matter anyway, that roads now closed with a slip and looks like it will become another manawatu gorge? so much for transmission gully providing an alternative, now aside from the goat track peakakariki hill it's the only option, still, m the salesman that sold TG on an extra route has banked his cheque

[Gremlin]

and the rimutakas, wanganui river road is? there's loads of roads that you can't even reach the 100 limit, yet they still are.
Would you shut up? Don't give them a damn list! :weird:

Got *ahem* lectured by a cop that tried telling me 100kph on SH23 to Raglan was a dangerous speed (there have been articles etc they're looking to reduce the limit to 80kph). I looked at him with that pitiful sort of "which rock did you crawl out from under" look and said I've just been doing 100kph on gravel, perfectly reasonable where suitable, and you're trying to tell me 100kph on this sealed highway is dangerous? At least he had the nous not to bother pushing that point...

The issue I have is, it's a limit. You don't have to drive at that, hell, some roads aren't suitable for that. Some corners aren't. Some people completely lack the skill. But when you try to cater for the lowest common denominator, they invent a better idiot. Why is 80kph safer? Why not 50kph, I mean, that's even safer right, based on the arguments around trauma and energy equations? Because too many people would object.

They want to slow people down, but go too far and too many will object. They may even be held to account about it. Brains switch off when not stimulated... maybe one day they'll figure that out.

[Berries]

The pretty much blanket 60km/h limit on gravel roads is the one that is going to cause quite a bit of noise when the councils start putting the signs up.

[pete376403]

The pretty much blanket 60km/h limit on gravel roads is the one that is going to cause quite a bit of noise when the councils start putting the signs up.
Do you think they will risk sending cop cars down gravel roads to enforce the speeds?

[HenryDorsetCase]

As I feared, the 80kph "open" road and 60kph where its a bit windy means that some FUCKING CUNTS think its OK to go at 70 and 50.... down to 35 for every corner. FFFFFFUUUUUUUU Gonna have to get back to getting up at 6.30 on Saturday or Sunday, having a somewhat "spirited" ride over and doing breakfast at Bully Hayes then a cruise back.

Thanks Jacinda. :(

Also: the filth have a dark grey Skoda but stickered up and with a light bar. Talk about unfair to the sporting public!

[rastuscat]

As I feared, the 80kph "open" road and 60kph where its a bit windy means that some FUCKING CUNTS think its OK to go at 70 and 50.... down to 35 for every corner. FFFFFFUUUUUUUU Gonna have to get back to getting up at 6.30 on Saturday or Sunday, having a somewhat "spirited" ride over and doing breakfast at Bully Hayes then a cruise back.

Thanks Jacinda. :(

Also: the filth have a dark grey Skoda but stickered up and with a light bar. Talk about unfair to the sporting public!

Fines are still voluntary.

No exceed speed limit, no speeding fine.

Seems too good to be true, but it isn't.

[pritch]

Best wishes with that.

This site has long needed a sarcasm icon.

[pritch]

But when you try to cater for the lowest common denominator, they invent a better idiot.

Mind if I borrow that?

[jellywrestler]

Fines are still voluntary.

No exceed speed limit, no speeding fine.

Seems too good to be true, but it isn't.

i disagree, the warrant of fitness checks no longer require your speedos must be accurate to within 10% these days, just function, so a goverment requirement to check your vehicle simply doesn't provide one iota of accuracy for that, whose to know your speedo is out?

[rastuscat]

i disagree, the warrant of fitness checks no longer require your speedos must be accurate to within 10% these days, just function, so a goverment requirement to check your vehicle simply doesn't provide one iota of accuracy for that, whose to know your speedo is out?

In other news, from my years of experience of calibrating enforcement and other speedos, ooerating speed detection equipment (and instructing on that subject), and of comparing various vehicle speedos to GPS, the vast majority of speedos read optimistically.

So, if your typical speedo reads 50, you are typically doing 45/46.

I've had bikes that are reading 70 when I am actually doing 50. Gotta love Italian scooters.

So, if a popo with a radar checks you at 56 , your typical speedo would have been reading 60 or 61 at the time that speed was locked.

So speedo error almost always causes you to go slower, not faster.

The primary exception is those vehicles fitted with wheels larger than standard e.g. your Hilux Surf with penis-extension wheels.

So, the speedo error argument is an easy one to throw out, but is almost exclusively moot.

But hey, never let facts stand in the way of a good old whinge.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Fines are still voluntary.

No exceed speed limit, no speeding fine.

Seems too good to be true, but it isn't.

pish posh. I'm an above average rider, with reactions like a cat, vision like a hawk, and a penis like a blue whale. I am ALLOWED* to go quicker than average. With your love of statistics, you will doubtless realise that fully half of any given sample are below average. Ponder that, if you will.


*Jacinda said

[Gremlin]

Mind if I borrow that?
By all means, but not mine to give. Seen it many a time...


So, the speedo error argument is an easy one to throw out, but is almost exclusively moot.
Hardly solid statistics, but I've owned three 4 wheelers. One under-read my speed... so 1/3 for me :msn-wink:

For motorcycles, I know the amount of tread on the tyre will affect the reading, ie, brand new vs mostly worn, speed varies by 1-2kph. Tyre pressure can also make a difference, by more than 1-2kph at times, mostly for adventure riders, as we air down in some circumstances. Exact amount varies by bike, tyre and terrain.

[Berries]

The good news is the renewed focus on exceeding the (lower) speed limit on straights and in passing lanes and the increased use of safety cameras will halve the road toll, mark my words.






This site has long needed a sarcasm icon.

[jellywrestler]

In other news, from my years of experience of calibrating enforcement and other speedos, ooerating speed detection equipment (and instructing on that subject), and of comparing various vehicle speedos to GPS, the vast majority of speedos read optimistically.

So, if your typical speedo reads 50, you are typically doing 45/46.

I've had bikes that are reading 70 when I am actually doing 50. Gotta love Italian scooters.

So, if a popo with a radar checks you at 56 , your typical speedo would have been reading 60 or 61 at the time that speed was locked.

So speedo error almost always causes you to go slower, not faster.

The primary exception is those vehicles fitted with wheels larger than standard e.g. your Hilux Surf with penis-extension wheels.

So, the speedo error argument is an easy one to throw out, but is almost exclusively moot.

But hey, never let facts stand in the way of a good old whinge. my last ticket was for twelve kms over, ie doing 50 on speedo it was 62 on the road, i was in a normal work van, i had the speedo certified as that, repaired and submitted the info in defence, they said i was still excedding the speed limit, by 2 kms, that was the year 2000. I rang the warrant people who told me if they thought a speedo was out they would do a run on the motorway with one they knew was right, yeah fucking right! there are other vehciles where the speedo gearbox does not match the speedo and have been sold like that, how would you know if the warrant says it only has to function??????? Almost always, almost always, yeah right

[rastuscat]

pish posh. I'm an above average rider, with reactions like a cat, vision like a hawk, and a penis like a blue whale. I am ALLOWED* to go quicker than average. With your love of statistics, you will doubtless realise that fully half of any given sample are below average. Ponder that, if you will.

Pondered it.

Everyone thinks they are above average.

Did you do high school maths? That's not how averages work. If everyone was above average, the average would be higher. And it's not.

Still, I'm thinking that sarcasm emoji might have been useful.

[F5 Dave]

Did you pass high school maths? You're not doing much to help the stereotype. His brief and witty statement is exactly how averages work. Maybe it's reading comprehension you need work on.

[SaferRides]

In other news, from my years of experience of calibrating enforcement and other speedos, ooerating speed detection equipment (and instructing on that subject), and of comparing various vehicle speedos to GPS, the vast majority of speedos read optimistically.

So, if your typical speedo reads 50, you are typically doing 45/46.

I've had bikes that are reading 70 when I am actually doing 50. Gotta love Italian scooters.

So, if a popo with a radar checks you at 56 , your typical speedo would have been reading 60 or 61 at the time that speed was locked.

So speedo error almost always causes you to go slower, not faster.

The primary exception is those vehicles fitted with wheels larger than standard e.g. your Hilux Surf with penis-extension wheels.

So, the speedo error argument is an easy one to throw out, but is almost exclusively moot.

But hey, never let facts stand in the way of a good old whinge.

Not always, the speedo on my wife's work car is almost spot on. It took 2 speed camera tickets before we figured that out...

On the other hand, my car reads high by 5 km/h consistently from 50 to 100 km/h. Great feature, I've only had one speeding ticket, which was from a camera for 6 over.

It is always worth checking the speedo when you get a new vehicle.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

Not always,

Well he did say 'vast majority' which infers 'Not always'

[pritch]

The speedo on my Ducati read 30kph slow. I'm still pleased I discovered that before an officer of the law informed me. An indicated 100 was 130 and since I rarely rode at 100 anyway I could have easily been walking. Bloody Italian electrics.

[roogazza]

The speedo on my Ducati read 30kph slow. I'm still pleased I discovered that before an officer of the law informed me. An indicated 100 was 130 and since I rarely rode at 100 anyway I could have easily been walking. Bloody Italian electrics.

A mate bought a new A7 350 Kawasaki in about 1967 and was boasting how fast it was reading on our test strip..... We found the speedo was 20 MPH FAST !!
It was way faster than our T20's and YDS3's but not that fast !

Lucky for you pritch !!

[SaferRides]

Well he did say 'vast majority' which infers 'Not always'From my experience, it's not the vast majority. But it's easy enough to check using a GPS speedo app.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

From my experience, it's not the vast majority. But it's easy enough to check using a GPS speedo app.

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

How many vehicles have you tested?

[SaferRides]

How many vehicles have you tested?Quite a few, I used to check rental car speedos if I was doing a decent drive. Most read high but not "the vast majority".

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[onearmedbandit]

Quite a few, I used to check rental car speedos if I was doing a decent drive. Most read high but not "the vast majority".

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

It's common in international law (including NZ, Europe, Australia) that speedos must not read below true speed or above by more than 10% + 4kmh, so for a true speed of 100km/h the speedo can read no less than 100km/h and no more than 114kmh. It's well known and accepted that the vast majority read over true speed for that very law.

[SaferRides]

Yes, but some are much closer to being accurate than others. It is definitely worth checking your speedo accuracy if you want to avoid speeding tickets.

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[neels]

All the German cars at my place - spot on give or take tyre wear.
Peugeot - about 2k optimistic on new tyres.
Fiat - 10k slower than actual speed, that one had me swearing at all the slow drivers on the road :laugh:
Every Japanese car I've bothered to check - pretty consistent 5km faster than actual, it's almost like they put the needle on offset by that much on purpose.

Really should stick the gps on the motorcycles, and see where they sit.

Unless you really luck into getting the road to yourself, anywhere on Banks Peninsula, dropping the speed limit will make less difference to your trip time than gran in her RAV4 out for a nice drive in the country.

[Ghost_Bullet]

I don't head to Akaroa hardly ever. Living North Caterbury. Getting across town AGH.

But had to make a journey before the limits were changed. Not that I went GP speeds.
I didn't want to visit my GP or worse case the ER :laugh:
But below is a video of that ride.



https://youtu.be/Zcka9CmYOIk

[HenryDorsetCase]

Lovely spring day here today. Had some free time this afternoon and perfect weather to ride a motorbike. Fired up the M1100 and though I would cruise out to Little River. Saw some poor bastard paying some road tax in Tai Tapu and then got onto the open road. The very well maintained, lots of flowing corners, wide, well signposted flat road out to Little River. Speed limit 80kph. There were a couple of people on boat anchor cruisers and I though I would stay behind them so I didnt get pinged.

I turned off at the black tulip and came home. Its fucked.

And they want to make 80 the default limit on the King's highways? Fuck that.

I saw some people out on a Honda Grom and some sort of mini bike. They would have been having 10X the fun I was. 100X even.

When's the next trackday and shall I buy a boat anchor?

The entire economy of Little River and Akaroa will be fucked if it doesnt get my bi-weekly long black and ham roll. And it won't. Thats the real cost of this Stalinist bullshit.

[Grumph]

It's going to be interesting to see if the new Mayor will have any effect on the speed limit lowering.

He's dead right on one thing he's said already - got to get more people into the central city so making it harder for motorists doesn't work.

I'm beginning to suspect that to have any fun out of motorcycling now, I'll have to restart riding vintage bikes as daily transport.
Something on which 100kph is an exciting adventure into the limits of handling and brakes.

[SaferRides]

The Auckland Transport board agreed to the next stage of speed limit reductions in Auckland the week before the election. It will be interesting to see what the new mayor does.

At least the roads south of the Bombays are still 100!



Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[HenryDorsetCase]

It's going to be interesting to see if the new Mayor will have any effect on the speed limit lowering.

He's dead right on one thing he's said already - got to get more people into the central city so making it harder for motorists doesn't work.

I'm beginning to suspect that to have any fun out of motorcycling now, I'll have to restart riding vintage bikes as daily transport.
Something on which 100kph is an exciting adventure into the limits of handling and brakes.

the only issue with that is the fuckwis in Frod Rangers who see you as a speed bump.

The amount of white collar assholes I see driving them is outrageous. Entirely understandable becuase of the fucked up tax rules that make them the logical choice. Anyone with children should be setting fire to the IRD building over this because the reason that double cab four wheel drive utes are the biggest selling vehicles is the stupidly advantageous tax rules around them.

Whatever, I need a cup of tea and a liedown.

[Grumph]

IMO Rangerman is a new sub-species. Possibly with some cargo cult DNA as they all seem to wear trousers with multiple pockets.

And I've never seen one with anything in the tray.

[onearmedbandit]

As much as I dislike subscribing to stereotypes I have to agree about RangerMan. I've been teaching my 16yr old daughter to drive. 'L' plates clearly on display but already she's witnessed how RangerMan doesn't care about anything or anyone except RangerMan.

[Laava]

Tell me more about these exclusive tax breaks HDC that only Rangerman can get? Asking for a friend...
I would have thought you would be equally worried about the cunts driving euro cars that cannot be overtaken. Ever.
TBH, I agree about Rangerman, but I think his other car is a Rangerover. And he is often a soccermom.

[Laava]

IMO Rangerman is a new sub-species. Possibly with some cargo cult DNA as they all seem to wear trousers with multiple pockets.

And I've never seen one with anything in the tray.
You certainly have described my trousers quite well but my flatdeck tray is never empty. Or are you thinking more about the wellside and ridiculously oversized wheels Ranger? With the full roof lightbar and snorkel?

[F5 Dave]

I'd long ago decided that Ranger driver had taken over from Volvos of the 80s. Most aggressive drivers on the road. R-Anger.

[george formby]

You certainly have described my trousers quite well but my flatdeck tray is never empty. Or are you thinking more about the wellside and ridiculously oversized wheels Ranger? With the full roof lightbar and snorkel?

The ones parked outside of Mitre10 with a couple of punnets of veggie seedlings in the back? I suspect so.

[Grumph]

You certainly have described my trousers quite well but my flatdeck tray is never empty. Or are you thinking more about the wellside and ridiculously oversized wheels Ranger? With the full roof lightbar and snorkel?

Yes, the wellside with mandatory accessories. The sight of one of those triggers an avoidance reflex I find. And walking past ranks of them at Mire 10 or Bunnings - all of them with parks closer to the doors than I've found - simply makes me sad for our civilisation. The sight of cargo pants has much the same effect.

That a civilisation which in the early years of motorised transport came up with the Morgan and the Bugatti of many types - but all elegant - is now reduced to the lowest common denominators of SUV's and double cab utes would on a bad day make one weep. Or simply take to drink.

[Berries]

It's going to be interesting to see if the new Mayor will have any effect on the speed limit lowering.
The answer to that will be a big fat no even if he/she wants to.

[Laava]

I'd long ago decided that Ranger driver had taken over from Volvos of the 80s. Most aggressive drivers on the road. R-Anger.
I do think that generalisation extends to other makes as well. Of course, up here in the far north, licenses, rego, seatbelts etc are optional once north of Whakapara.

[Laava]

Yes, the wellside with mandatory accessories. The sight of one of those triggers an avoidance reflex I find. And walking past ranks of them at Mire 10 or Bunnings - all of them with parks closer to the doors than I've found - simply makes me sad for our civilisation. The sight of cargo pants has much the same effect.

That a civilisation which in the early years of motorised transport came up with the Morgan and the Bugatti of many types - but all elegant - is now reduced to the lowest common denominators of SUV's and double cab utes would on a bad day make one weep. Or simply take to drink.
I am going to cut the pockets off my pants now and mail them to you to atone for my sins. Except for the RH thigh one my cellphone goes in. You cut me deep bro!

[Moi]

...The amount of white collar assholes I see driving them is outrageous. Entirely understandable becuase of the fucked up tax rules that make them the logical choice. Anyone with children should be setting fire to the IRD building over this because the reason that double cab four wheel drive utes are the biggest selling vehicles is the stupidly advantageous tax rules around them...

I'm of the opinion that if a vehicle is owned by a company, whether company car for CEO or ute for the office lady, then it should have on both front doors the name of the company - in 6 inch high letters - who is gaining some tax advantage. It may not improve the standard of driving of such vehicle* but at least we plebs who own our own vehicle could make an informed decision as to whether we want to do business with that company.

* this morning west bound on North-Western [SH16] with cruise control set at 105km/h I was passed by a number of utes which made me wonder if I had stalled and drifted to halt. Though a couple of the utes had dificulties with righthand lane huggers doing 90km/h.

[Grumph]

I am going to cut the pockets off my pants now and mail them to you to atone for my sins. Except for the RH thigh one my cellphone goes in. You cut me deep bro!

Rip that one off immediately. Life without a cellphone is immeasurably better.

[Grumph]

The answer to that will be a big fat no even if he/she wants to.

Our new one in ChCh is a Mauger. With all the familial vehicle related history that brings with it.

If as a councillor he can dig ditches the council wouldn't do, I'm picking he could just as easily ignore a govt dept wanting to change speed limits.

[rastuscat]

Our new one in ChCh is a Mauger. With all the familial vehicle related history that brings with it.

If as a councillor he can dig ditches the council wouldn't do, I'm picking he could just as easily ignore a govt dept. wanting to change speed limits.

The mayor only gets 1 vote on council, which is as many votes as everyone else. So to effect change, he has to influence the others he's surrounded by.

Time will tell. The speed limit changes have come from Waka Kotahi, so not sure the mayor can do much.

[Berries]

Our new one in ChCh is a Mauger. With all the familial vehicle related history that brings with it.

If as a councillor he can dig ditches the council wouldn't do, I'm picking he could just as easily ignore a govt dept wanting to change speed limits.
Only problem is the council is funded to the tune of many millions of dollars by that same government department. That funding will become a bit precarious to any council that does not toe the party line.

Plenty of threats of legal action already out there for some councils that did not want to go quite as draconian as suggested.

[jim.cox]

The Akaroa Rd is State Highway - the council does not get a say.

They're responsible for local roads - like Hilltop and Summit

[jellywrestler]

I'm going to exercise my right to only recognise speed limit signs in Maori.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The mayor only gets 1 vote on council, which is as many votes as everyone else. So to effect change, he has to influence the others he's surrounded by.

Time will tell. The speed limit changes have come from Waka Kotahi, so not sure the mayor can do much.

some brave soul had taken some direct action. I saw an 80 sign on its pole lying by the side of the road. Pole had a kink in it as if a Ranger driver had given it a wee nudge. Maybe on the Motukarara straight? Before the sweeper that is a gas at about 170. Gotta be careful of people coming out the black tulip though and the corner after it tightens and is armco lined.... it opens up to that rippled straight.

[roogazza]

I'm going to exercise my right to only recognise speed limit signs in Maori.

hopefully the next election will stop all this maori shit take over.
I mean fucking subtitles on TV for one !!!!!!!!!!!:nono: :(

[pritch]

Saw a Youtube clip of an American talking about truck owners and their self image. Most live in the suburbs and don't need a truck. He himself lived up a dirt road, in his state the people who live up the dirt roads, who we might expect to drive trucks, don't. They tend to drive muscle cars.

[george formby]

Saw a Youtube clip of an American talking about truck owners and their self image. Most live in the suburbs and don't need a truck. He himself lived up a dirt road, in his state the people who live up the dirt roads, who we might expect to drive trucks, don't. They tend to drive muscle cars.

Ginger Billy?

[HenryDorsetCase]

hopefully the next election will stop all this maori shit take over.
I mean fucking subtitles on TV for one !!!!!!!!!!!:nono: :(

OK Boomer!

[Racing Dave]

Maybe on the Motukarara straight? Before the sweeper that is a gas at about 170. Gotta be careful of people coming out the black tulip though and the corner after it tightens and is armco lined.... it opens up to that rippled straight.

In a previous life, RC was very familiar with the exit speed from the sweeper heading towards Chch...

[pritch]

OK Boomer!

I can laugh at that, I'm pre-boomer.

[HenryDorsetCase]

In a previous life, RC was very familiar with the exit speed from the sweeper heading towards Chch...

Oh, I'm aware.....

that and the straight just before the road sweeps right then the bends by the lake then into Little River.... quite often camped at the end of the straight. Used to be able to hit 2x the speed limit there pretty easy I'm told. Not me, I was on a pushbike...

[rastuscat]

In a previous life, RC was very familiar with the exit speed from the sweeper heading towards Chch...

178, as I recall.

Good memory fella, well mentioned.

[Berries]

Our new one in ChCh is a Mauger. With all the familial vehicle related history that brings with it.

If as a councillor he can dig ditches the council wouldn't do, I'm picking he could just as easily ignore a govt dept wanting to change speed limits.
Saw him on t'news tonight. Lets see how he goes getting Ashburton and Waimak to pay for your stadium.

[Grumph]

Saw him on t'news tonight. Lets see how he goes getting Ashburton and Waimak to pay for your stadium.

Looking at who's got back on in Selwyn, their reluctance to contribute may even harden. Richest council in NZ too.

[onearmedbandit]

Safer roads my arse.

Today the family and I traveled to Akaroa for a day out. Traffic there was light, which was great as my 16yr old daughter is learning to drive. On the way back I drove, she was tired. This was a good thing, as I've never been tailgated at the speed limit so much before, nor seen so many frustrated over take attempts. For the record my speed was set to 82kmh via GPs (around 87kmh on my speedo).

[Grumph]

Get used to it. More and more 100k roads will come down to 80. The traffic engineers have for years been trying to get all of us to use the same routes. Selective speed limits might just do it when the alternative route is slower.

[Berries]

Get used to it. More and more 100k roads will come down to 80.
All of the single lane roads will. Put your head above the parapet and try and argue and you will be shot down with basic physics.

Clearly, the slower you go the more reaction time you have and if things turn to shit there will be less impact forces. But if you look at all the big crashes out there they either ignore the speed limit so this is all irrelevant or they fuck up big time so the speed limit is irrelevant.

It will take an oil crisis to bring the road toll down, all this safety money should be spent on social housing in the north island.



Where they have 110km/h speed limits :scratch:

[SaferRides]

Safer roads my arse.

Today the family and I traveled to Akaroa for a day out. Traffic there was light, which was great as my 16yr old daughter is learning to drive. On the way back I drove, she was tired. This was a good thing, as I've never been tailgated at the speed limit so much before, nor seen so many frustrated over take attempts. For the record my speed was set to 82kmh via GPs (around 87kmh on my speedo).There are some places where 80 is justified on safety grounds, but blanket limits will probably end up achieving less compliance than carefully targeted speed limit reductions.

I very rarely see any speed monitoring being done now, or have the parallel tubes been replaced by new technology?

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[onearmedbandit]

I very rarely see any speed monitoring being done now, or have the parallel tubes been replaced by new technology?

Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

There were at least 3-4 sets of parallel tubes on the journey (90km trip), so they're still being used. Plus there was one HP unit parked up around a sweeping bend.

[pritch]

It will take an oil crisis to bring the road toll down,

Or a pandemic?

[HenryDorsetCase]

I remember the last time the grey ones imposed an 80k speed limit which was the mid 70's oil crisis. Carless days and all that shit. Way less traffic on the roads then (though I acknowledge cars are better). No wonder all the guys I used to ride sportsbikes with now ride ADV bikes.

I think trackdays might be the answer for me.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Saw him on t'news tonight. Lets see how he goes getting Ashburton and Waimak to pay for your stadium.

Won't be happening.

[F5 Dave]

I remember the last time the grey ones imposed an 80k speed limit which was the mid 70's oil crisis. Carless days and all that shit. Way less traffic on the roads then (though I acknowledge cars are better). No wonder all the guys I used to ride sportsbikes with now ride ADV bikes.

I think trackdays might be the answer for me.

Trials bikes my friend. I've spent today going very slowly and having an absolute blast.

[SPman]

Gotta be careful of people coming out the black tulip though and the corner after it tightens and is armco lined.... it opens up to that rippled straight.

Armco! When did that happen? ( lived in Motukarara '84 - '88)

[Berries]

I very rarely see any speed monitoring being done now, or have the parallel tubes been replaced by new technology?
Bluetooth on your phone and the microchip they inserted with the COVID vaccine.



:Police:

[jellywrestler]

Bluetooth on your phone and the microchip they inserted with the COVID vaccine.



:Police:

that's why I got my vaccine in my backside so the speed cameras could not pick me up, all you others are fools.

[Berries]

They call that a vaccine in Wellington now do they?

I just can't keep up with all these newfangled terms.

[SaferRides]

Bluetooth on your phone and the microchip they inserted with the COVID vaccine.



:Police:I know of other research that used Bluetooth to determine average speed, but they are not allowed to use it now for privacy reasons.

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[Laava]

Bluetooth on your phone and the microchip they inserted with the COVID vaccine.



:Police:

Upside of that is now the QR codes download into my head automatically!

[R650R]

You poor deprived bastards...

I recently had chance to ride the Akaroa road. I suppose after the hell hole traffic that chch is (worse than Auckland I reckon) that this being the nearest bit of unstraight rural road is some kind of mirage of salvation. But just like a hot dry desert I was left thirsty for a decent road...
I stopped at the first decent pub and had a handle of sleights gold to drown my sorrow.
After so much talk I Was left disappointed as a netflicx subscriber.
There should some damn awesome rides to Be had down south, this is not one I’d do twice

[FJRider]

how many accidents are caused on windy roads by people constantly checking their speedos?

There is a higher number of accidents occurring on straight roads ... because straight roads are safer to drive on.


Oh wait .... ;)

[pritch]

You poor deprived bastards...

I recently had chance to ride the Akaroa road. I suppose after the hell hole traffic that chch is (worse than Auckland I reckon) that this being the nearest bit of unstraight rural road is some kind of mirage of salvation. But just like a hot dry desert I was left thirsty for a decent road...
I stopped at the first decent pub and had a handle of sleights gold to drown my sorrow.
After so much talk I Was left disappointed as a netflicx subscriber.
There should some damn awesome rides to Be had down south, this is not one I’d do twice

Hmmm. I was thinking the Akaroa road was good and for a bonus, Akaroa is a nice place to have fish and Chips by the sea. The Lewis pass is great - if the trucks haven't fucked it. SH6 from Greymouth to Wanaka is a fun coupla days. Maybe not in a truck though.

[FJRider]

The other thing I've experienced with the infinitely variable speed limits is that I'm wondering if the guy monstering me from behind in his Ford Ranger is just an arsehole, or I've lost track of what the last speed limit sign was that I saw and I'm pootling 20k below the current limit. At various times both have been the case.

I used to drive Furniture trucks ... often not far off Max allowed weight. I've seen a few of those "Ford Ranger" types in the mirror.

And I've seen quite a few of them having to wait a while to be able to pass me (even unsafely).

Bugger eh .. !!!


What the speed limit is used to be pretty simple, now driving on open road it might be 60,70,80 or 100 in various places, and you just have to hope you see the signs when driving over an alpine pass at night in the pissing rain.

Depending on how well you know or remember the road ... can help. But often doesn't.

I went through Arthurs Pass at 1am in thick fog on a 1000 mile rally ride. On that road, in that shit, it fair does your head in.

[onearmedbandit]

You poor deprived bastards...

I recently had chance to ride the Akaroa road. I suppose after the hell hole traffic that chch is (worse than Auckland I reckon) that this being the nearest bit of unstraight rural road is some kind of mirage of salvation. But just like a hot dry desert I was left thirsty for a decent road...
I stopped at the first decent pub and had a handle of sleights gold to drown my sorrow.
After so much talk I Was left disappointed as a netflicx subscriber.
There should some damn awesome rides to Be had down south, this is not one I’d do twice

How fast did ya ride it mister? I'm guessing not fast enough. It is known as the Akaroa GP, not the Akaroa Cruise. As a road itself it's nothing flash, but as a sprint road (as it was) on our back door it's a lot of fun. And as others have pointed, Akaroa is a nice destination.

[Stylo]

How fast did ya ride it mister? I'm guessing not fast enough. It is known as the Akaroa GP, not the Akaroa Cruise. As a road itself it's nothing flash, but as a sprint road (as it was) on our back door it's a lot of fun. And as others have pointed, Akaroa is a nice destination.

The Selwyn GP is always a better ride. Starts at the Motukarara turn off. Forget Akaroa. Head to the Leeston bakery . Lovely food and no traffic before you get there. Inland route. Fanatastic ride. Plenty of scenery en route. Lot's of corners and interesting scenery.

[Berries]

There should some damn awesome rides to Be had down south, this is not one I’d do twice
There are no good roads down here. You stay where you are.

[F5 Dave]

So what is your next bike Stylo?

Just been on 2.5k ride with people up to 70. But bike choice is becoming a thing for them.

You sound like you enjoy it. Don't deprive yourself of a few years.

[F5 Dave]

There are no good roads down here. You stay where you are.

Good point. Don't want Sad Sack spreading his disappointment dissolutionment to the rest of the country.

Probably Jacindas fault..

[FJRider]

There are no good roads down here. You stay where you are.

Too true ... it's a difficult decision deciding which road we're really going to hate riding ... again.

[Ghost_Bullet]

So so so True,

Sometimes just pushing the beast out of the garage is to much effort for the day :eek5:

[onearmedbandit]

The Selwyn GP is always a better ride. Starts at the Motukarara turn off. Forget Akaroa. Head to the Leeston bakery . Lovely food and no traffic before you get there. Inland route. Fanatastic ride. Plenty of scenery en route. Lot's of corners and interesting scenery.

I Know it well, it's not far from where I was born and it's just up the road from my mothers house.

[R650R]

There are no good roads down here. You stay where you are.

To quote Johnny Cash I’ve been every where.... about four times now and I’ll be back ;)

[actungbaby]

There are no good roads down here. You stay where you are.Reminds me get home sick.
Everytime get on bike .have get back home chch.then always find my way around even post u
Know what.cant ride port hills
But got ride up old route.i was tail end charlie back n day.
I vidly remember night motorcycle cop bmw chased are small club .passed me
Draging cycliders it seemed at the time, brian on gsx 750 guy
On cb 900 f heard engines screaming .away .i was on my
Cb 400 n [emoji4] .
Guy on xl 250 twin shocks was quick too.any ways after 30 years still miss the place


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