Hustler class ( Vinduro Buckets)

[Flettner]

Found, In all her glory. Stock standard original, un molested.

[Flettner]

But wait, what do we have here?

[george formby]

A subtle plea for a set of spanners?:innocent:

[F5 Dave]

It's all a bit of a cry for help.
On so many levels. :crazy:

I'll pop by the Warehouse on the way back to work and price up a set of Mako wrenches.

We can have a whip around. I reckon about $8 each.
For both of us.

[george formby]

It's all a bit of a cry for help.
On so many levels. :crazy:

I'll pop by the Warehouse on the way back to work and price up a set of Mako wrenches.

We can have a whip around. I reckon about $8 each.
For both of us.

Cheque, cash or bank transfer? :drinknsin

[F5 Dave]

DaveCoin. Its a bit like Bitcoin but with even less chance of getting your money back.

[husaberg]

So it looks like the cylinder i sent is an e or f so they had bigger finning like a RD400. But they also have better porting more like a RD250LC
Here is a pipe that will work and peak at 11k it will be reasonably exciting. It should handle the ratios in a DT100 box.
if not add a bit to the mid pipe i guess.
Its not going to be 2021 GP spec afterall.
351522

351524351521351523

351520



here are the better ratios

DT100A MX100
1 3.18 2.83
2 2.00 1.88
3 1.37 1.37
4 1.00 1.09
5 0.80 0.96

STD AG100 ratios are the widest i have ever seen.
1st 3.181
2nd 1.875
3rd 1.250
4th 0.875
5th 0.666 this top gear is not a typo its out of the service manual.

351525


It looks like a Ag100 has DT100 first MX100 second its own 3rd.

The RS100 has the same ratios and gears as the MX100
Also the RS100 shares some pinions with the 74/75 YZ 125
Some of the gears are also DT125 and DT175 etc etc

[F5 Dave]

Keep 5th gear. Make then know you are serious. :devil2:


Torches blazed and sacred chants were praised
As they start to cry, hands held to the sky
In the night, the fires are burning bright
The ritual has begun, Satan's work is done
Six six six, the number of the beast

[husaberg]

I had another archeological expedition to the outer shed at the mums.
I found another head, oddly not the other head or the other cylinder?
i am pretty sure its a left hand side one.
It has a plug piston and all, plus 2 sleeve nuts Who else forgot they had sleeve nuts?
This one actully looks crudier then than the last with the pistons little end bearing returning to its base ore.

[F5 Dave]

I remember heating the head gasket ring red on the stove.

[husaberg]

I remember heating the head gasket ring red on the stove.

i know the early ones had those, not so sure the late 250 and 400.
okay off to google and parts fiche, It seems a coper head gasket but in std style for the late 250's
351526
late



351527
vs the ring of the early and 350. But of course the 350's are 350 size.

i think the head has a head gasket attached but its became part of the head.....:innocent:

[husaberg]

Neil wanted this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLuDAJ1o8Kc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lju0N9M0JUI

[Flettner]

Ill start again, the old thread can not be fixed aparently.

Vinduro Buckets, direct air cooled, 125cc twostroke, 150cc fourstroke, drum brakes, no bigger than 36mm forks, mono shock (Yamaha) or twin rear shocks. No linkages.
Engine modifications .... open
Fuel at this point.... open.

[Flettner]

My choice, seeing as induction air pressure is not regulated. An XS250 engine, on its way to being reduced to a 150cc, 360 degree crank, twin. The gearbox and clutch are good for at least 40HP. A new short cylinder block is needed, pistons and rods are 2 x FZ250, engine block is that solid I think it will be good enough as a substantial part of the frame. The cam chain drive will be abandoned, the cam now being driven via the tooth belt supercharger drive that has to be there anyway. The points housing on the end of the camshaft wil now be a bearing support housing for the tooth belt drive. Extended camshaft with a taper and key to fit the alloy tooth belt drive pulley will extend through this bearing support housing.
Thats the plan at least at the moment.

[onearmedbandit]

Sorry I thought that had been taken care of already. I've changed the name on your original thread, let me know if you'd like this one closed.

[husaberg]

its fixed Neil

[Flettner]

I asked to get the new Hustler class thread tacked on to this one, hope so.

I guess Ill continue on with this thread now.

[husaberg]

My choice, seeing as induction air pressure is not regulated. An XS250 engine, on its way to being reduced to a 150cc, 360 degree crank, twin. The gearbox and clutch are good for at least 40HP. A new short cylinder block is needed, pistons and rods are 2 x FZ250, engine block is that solid I think it will be good enough as a substantial part of the frame. The cam chain drive will be abandoned, the cam now being driven via the tooth belt supercharger drive that has to be there anyway. The points housing on the end of the camshaft wil now be a bearing support housing for the tooth belt drive. Extended camshaft with a taper and key to fit the alloy tooth belt drive pulley will extend through this bearing support housing.
Thats the plan at least at the moment.

okay I was thinking where the electric start was, or from behind the flywheel for the supercharger drive.

[mr bucketracer]

You guys still hard at it

[husaberg]

You guys still hard at it
What frame number are you up to now Scott?

[mr bucketracer]

Good question. 24 I think plus 2 unnumbered. Can't remember how to load pictures any more lol. ps Sorry to here about your dad )-:

[Flettner]

A new camshaft and a new crankshaft. 4140, finish nitrided. A new cylinder block required, probably about an inch tall, the head will almost be straight onto the engine block.

[husaberg]

Good question. 24 I think plus 2 unnumbered. Can't remember how to load pictures any more lol. ps Sorry to here about your dad )-:

TBH He wasn't so happy about it either, it was a year ago yesterday. we have only go as far as the yard on the tidy up.
Adding pictures is easy either hot link it with the insert image button or use the paper clip to access and attach it off the net address or direct from your computer.

Has your father started on the MC1.
Also did you bro finish the Air cooled RS.

[mr bucketracer]

The air cooled RS Is very yesterday lol even though a real good bike . He's on the first r15 Yamaha now . Iv just started building a 50 for myself. Iv built a cb350/4 race bike but some how smokes like a train ? Think the old time oil rings are crap

[mr bucketracer]

351642the r15

[Grumph]

The air cooled RS Is very yesterday lol even though a real good bike . He's on the first r15 Yamaha now . Iv just started building a 50 for myself. Iv built a cb350/4 race bike but some how smokes like a train ? Think the old time oil rings are crap

From memory the oil rings are 3 piece on OE pistons. If they're in good bores that shouldn't be the problem. Got stem seals fitted ? Head gasket isn't letting oil from the end galleries into the cylinders ? Not trying to get old rings rebedded on synthetic oil ? They had a few things wrong with them - but smoking generally wasn't one of them. The big-bore one I built bedded quickly on mineral oil and last i heard was still going well - but now in Oz I believe.

[mr bucketracer]

The standard pistons have a one piece oil ring . I rebored this . So new Bores ,pistons ,head seals , head gasket. I tried . Lucus mineral oil . Smokes on the 2 outer cylinders and one inner.

[mr bucketracer]

I then removed the head and cheaked I had put the rings up the right way . All good . I gave a quick rehone. Thought incase there something wrong with the head I set up another head . All in good condition. New seals and head gasket. Put the gray color castrol oil in .it seemed better but slowly getting worse on same cylinders. The head and barrels were surface ground. So flat as. Was told I should put thicker oil in it . Don't know what's out there. I was thinking take the plugs out and run it on the dyno with a motor driving it .

[mr bucketracer]

351644in the norty corner

[Flettner]

First round done, stock standard AG100, no time to do anything to the engine. And its guttless, to top it off the gear selector started playing roulette, just when you needed the next gear down, too bad. Lots of stalling and falling. Have found the issue now and is fixed. Clutch got a workout.
So a bit more effort needed on the XS150SC twin I think.
Roughing out the crank today, 48mm bore x 41mm stroke, x2. Crank is 4140.

[Flettner]

A crank is emerging.

[husaberg]

Neil, C90 12v ie late is a dished piston in suitable size pin is 13mm but petty sure you can fix this at the piston or the rod,
FZR250 is 14mm

[Flettner]

I need raised top pistons, the 250 combustion chambers are rather large.

[husaberg]

I need raised top pistons, the 250 combustion chambers are rather large.

the earlier ones are domed. there is also a flat top c70.
so just how big is those chambers.....
351733
i guess with ethanol you can have decent comp
20-22lb boost is about 40hp

[F5 Dave]

And those ring grooves suggest 6000rpm.

[husaberg]

And those ring grooves suggest 6000rpm.

They look to be similar to the cb125T widths?
in my defense Rootes blowers make power at low revs anyway.

[ken seeber]

And those ring grooves suggest 6000rpm.

F5, that's rubbish. Get your facts right. They suggest only 5900 rpm...:laugh:

[F5 Dave]

Sorry:o must be flex in the tacho cable..

[husaberg]

FB80 Suzuki
1mm rings 13mm pin
FB80 1 85 shape 48mm 44mm pin length 21.7+1 comp height 1.0-2 comp 2 oil 13mm

or CB150T
CB150T 1 104shape 47mm bore std 48.5 pin length 20.7+4.3 comp height 1.0-2 rings 2 13mm pin 38

pictures here
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sdf04bd8c55d14db6bdb6a65791cef2f1v.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sa93e30febb44420995c97a45c55fddbdT.jpg
https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/Sc78dcd7da6f14be0a733aeb0859a2a3aH.jpg


or CB350F

Honda CB350F 47.50 23+4 13.00 53.00 13103-333-000
https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-v5z9i/images/stencil/500x659/products/18934/63067/DSC_0002__18948.1663708310.JPG?c=2
https://4-stroke.net/images/images-library/piston-list/piston-example.png

[Flettner]

A little more crankshaft like.

[husaberg]

A little more crankshaft like.
With that stroke is likely smaller than some cam blanks.

[husaberg]

crank forging process

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGwA-nV82dY

[speedpro]

I have a stack of FZR bits. Let me know if you want anything. Is there a possibility of running a cut down FZR head? I have 2 heads with various damage, and cams etc. How many revs will the bottom end handle?

[husaberg]

The standard pistons have a one piece oil ring . I rebored this . So new Bores ,pistons ,head seals , head gasket. I tried . Lucus mineral oil . Smokes on the 2 outer cylinders and one inner.

i think original one was one piece but there are aftemaeket three piece.?
i think std sleeves they can fit 400 pistons it might still smoke but it will go better...

[Flettner]

I have a stack of FZR bits. Let me know if you want anything. Is there a possibility of running a cut down FZR head? I have 2 heads with various damage, and cams etc. How many revs will the bottom end handle?

Thankyou, I have a half head here but rules call for air cooled, unfortunately. Good thing is E85 is not banned.

[pete376403]

Thankyou, I have a half head here but rules call for air cooled, unfortunately. Good thing is E85 is not banned.
Something I thought about many years ago when involved in TQ racing. Those rules also state "air cooled" and I was looking at using a Hillman Imp engine so, not allowed, but, where does the heat go after the water has taken it to the radiator? Thats right, the air. Then people start going on about the "intent" and "spirit" of the rules. But these same rules allowed oil cooled GSX motors.
It may be different now seeing as there have been no suitable air cooled motors made for a long time.

Do your class rules allow the use of an oil cooler?

[ken seeber]

Have suggested some time ago to just blow air through the existing cooling passages of a w/c engine. Surely it'd provide better cooling that a regular finned a/c engine. Might have to be a juicy blower, but one would be removing the existing water pump which is a mini hydraulic dyno.
Might be brilliant or might be stupid... :clap: or :facepalm:

[Flettner]

You are right, I did consider going down the 'but it is air cooled, ultimately' argument.
The use of E85 means I am at not such a disadvantage anyway and I have a perfectly good head with fins on it, the XS one, suitable for cooling a 400cc.
Oil cooling is not mentioned, it will be when they re write the rules for next season 😁.
Along with no electronic fuel injection, no forced induction, single cylinder only, and of coarse no oil cooling. They need to also change the rules to 'direct air cooling, or maybe primary air cooled? But I didnt say this😏

Ive been promised no rule changes this series, and actually I can still run it in the trail bike class just no points if they do.
At the end of the day its about being a little different and having a bit of fun with it.

[husaberg]

You are right, I did consider going down the 'but it is air cooled, ultimately' argument.
The use of E85 means I am at not such a disadvantage anyway and I have a perfectly good head with fins on it, the XS one, suitable for cooling a 400cc.
Oil cooling is not mentioned, it will be when they re write the rules for next season 😁.
Along with no electronic fuel injection, no forced induction, single cylinder only, and of coarse no oil cooling. They need to also change the rules to 'direct air cooling, or maybe primary air cooled? But I didnt say this😏

Ive been promised no rule changes this series, and actually I can still run it in the trail bike class just no points if they do.
At the end of the day its about being a little different and having a bit of fun with it.

So you are squirting under the pistons with all that oil i take it as well as feeding both crank ends.
Then run a low oil level in the clutch and a pumped system for the gearbox?

[husaberg]

Interesting pics i just seen show a Honda twin made in a bout 71-76 were camshaft drive on the side and 360 crank
Its and interesting set up with one very long crankpin. look horizontally split cases as well
They look like a CB200 style wise but totally different engine set up I had never seen one?
351792351793351794351795351796351797
the crank look pommy.
some are twin carb
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/cylinder-head-comp_big12200304020-01_e11b.jpghttps://images.cmsnl.com/img/products/cylinder-head-comp_big12200304020-03_1941.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8IR4dGe8kw

[Grumph]

I think Blue Wing decided that one was going to be too expensive for NZ. We got the visually similar CB200 but the 125's stayed as singles.
One of Honda's more simple designs IMO. I like it.

[husaberg]

I think Blue Wing decided that one was going to be too expensive for NZ. We got the visually similar CB200 but the 125's stayed as singles.
One of Honda's more simple designs IMO. I like it.


44 x 41 mm
1969 with the CB125K2 with similar chassis, but now with 5 speeds and a speedometer/rev-counter recessed into the headlight. This is probably the best and fastest of it’s genre, the Japan model having an electric start, the general export model did not.

The K2 model also introduced new ‘candy’ colour schemes to the quarter litre class, and like it’s predecessor lasted only one year before replacement with the new upright CB125K3 with a semi fabricated frame, which led the way for all the rest of the k series and B6 model 125’s which were all powered by the same lightweight ultra compact twin cylinder engine. The final CB125 sports twin was the CB125T range first launched in 1977,

looks like all the 125s were side cam right from the cb92 benly? i never knew that
this is the CB92 sloper. the 150 and 175s 200's were all that i can side central cam
https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb92-benly-super-sport-1959-usa-cylindercylinder-head_bighu0090e5001_5365.gif


To me its unusual for Honda to have such a model that maintained no common parts or design with the other sizes.
Until the cb125T etc
its also has a helical primary which Honda avoided.

[Flettner]

Measuring the cam, see what I actually have got.

[husaberg]

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r0i632nh8gdhq8q/Yamaha%201975-1984%20XS250-360-400%20Haynes%20Manual.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9np2w9fgzw98kh7/146396554-Yamaha-XS-400-H-SH-Service-Manual-ENG-XS360-2D-XS400-D-E-2E-F-2F-G-SG-Supplement-ENG-by-Mosue.pdf

added the 400 for good measure

[Grumph]

The interesting difference between the two cams is the bigger motor is on slightly wider lobe centers. Small engines cam is 108/106 . 400 is 110/110.
The 400 wide lobe centers are the better choice for a blown engine IMO.

[Flettner]

The interesting difference between the two cams is the bigger motor is on slightly wider lobe centers. Small engines cam is 108/106 . 400 is 110/110.
The 400 wide lobe centers are the better choice for a blown engine IMO.

Agreed, Im looking at just copying these lobes and spacing them apart, say each one five degrees, putting the lobe centres ten degrees apart. Somewhere to start I guess.

[Grumph]

Agreed, Im looking at just copying these lobes and spacing them apart, say each one five degrees, putting the lobe centres ten degrees apart. Somewhere to start I guess.

Think about that. Lobe center figures at the crank are not the same as lobe separation at the cam.

[husaberg]

The Crank that Flet is building is 360.

These are the specs of the CB350
351820351819

real early
15, 40
40, 15

mid 10, 35
20, 10
late 5, 30
30, 5


Grumps built a 500 supercharged twin

http://victorylibrary.com/tech/supercharger/super-engine5.htm

[Grumph]

The fact it's a 360 crank helps as no big plenum is required. Some volume in the inlet tract is desirable though. Some overlap is also desirable if it's air cooled. The time spent blowing mixture through at overlap will cool the valves and piston which is highly desirable.
In my experience, the books tell you that less cam is needed and any increase should be on the exhaust side. I reckon that's wrong. I ran what was the normal F3 big cams on std valve sizes on the 500 twin. 15lb boost and around 100rwhp on straight Methanol. The roots blower we used (750cc displacement) at engine speed gave a flat discharge curve from just above idle to 11 grand. Boost gauge stayed stuck on 15lb. If I could have found a 4 speed gearbox for that engine I would have put it in. The torque curve was dead flat and changing 6 gears was a pain.

[Flettner]

Cant wait for the casting resin to be imported by the fiberglass shop. So Im using just bondifil, a stack of fins.

[ken seeber]

I just happen to know someone who can't help himself...:laugh::laugh:

Keep it going Fletto...

[Flettner]

Thankfull for bondifill, the fuckup fixer

[Flettner]

Semi case reed?

[190mech]

Always love seeing your innovative work! I must ask why did you choose the 'butterfly' exhaust port instead of the tri port that Jan and Frits has taught us so much about?

[Flettner]

Always love seeing your innovative work! I must ask why did you choose the 'butterfly' exhaust port instead of the tri port that Jan and Frits has taught us so much about?

Simple, because Ive been given free, new, pistons, with holes already in them for exhaust bridge lub / cooling.
Free wins the day.

[Flettner]

Some more pictures.

[Flettner]

Fitting some core prints to the bottom of the transfer shapes.

[diesel pig]

Simple, because Ive been given free, new, pistons, with holes already in them for exhaust bridge lub / cooling.
Free wins the day.

I want to say something high and mighty but free would work for me too. Watching with interest. Keep posting please.

[Flettner]

Exhaust ports, x2.

[ken seeber]

Exhaust ports, x2.

Oh I see, you're making a Jawa...:shifty:

351961

[Flettner]

Oh I see, you're making a Jawa...:shifty:

351961

Bastards, they copied me.

[Flettner]

Cylinder Core box underway.

[Flettner]

Slight change, exhaust ports curved closer together. Last segment to do on the cylinder core box.

[F5 Dave]

So here's a thought. If you were to make two chambers because of your port layout, would you expect to run very similar design as conventional engine, but with two critical changes? Stinger diameter reduced to match 1/2 the flow/ power output. And I guess you are starting with a smaller outlet.

You could swap one pipe for a slightly different design if you wanted to offset the power spread. Actually, no. That would likely just alter flow from other port giving worst of both worlds.

[diesel pig]

So here's a thought. If you were to make two chambers because of your port layout, would you expect to run very similar design as conventional engine, but with two critical changes? Stinger diameter reduced to match 1/2 the flow/ power output. And I guess you are starting with a smaller outlet.

You could swap one pipe for a slightly different design if you wanted to offset the power spread. Actually, no. That would likely just alter flow from other port giving worst of both worlds.

If only Flettner had all the time and money in the world, He could do both and let us know the result. What shame we do not live in such a world.

[Flettner]

Time and money, mmm sounds good.
But until then it's status quo, fuck all money and no time.
But for what its worth Ill publish results, pitty its an air cooled cylinder but such are the Hustler rules.
Next cylinder will be twin exhaust port but water cooled, 175cc, 61 stroke 60 bore. Twin disc valve, a real engine.

Dave, I intend to run a two into one pipe, ld like a single reverse cone, for reasons. When my CNC is up and running again I intend to machine a wee press tool to make the joiner piece, with proper volumes all the way through.

[Flettner]

Fins next I guess.

[F5 Dave]

Looks like some sort of crazed octopus.

[ken seeber]

So here's a thought. If you were to make two chambers because of your port layout, would you expect to run very similar design as conventional engine, but with two critical changes? Stinger diameter reduced to match 1/2 the flow/ power output. And I guess you are starting with a smaller outlet.

You could swap one pipe for a slightly different design if you wanted to offset the power spread. Actually, no. That would likely just alter flow from other port giving worst of both worlds.


Getting close Dave. Have the ability to have 2 different pipes with a valve (Fletto loves making these :laugh:) that could switch to either single pipe on its own or both pipes together.

Could lead to a the development of new range of FOS and EngMod2T software with Wobbly fine tuning a new exhaust port % area ratio rule. Bring it on.

[Flettner]

First fin fitted, others cut but not glued yet.

[Flettner]

Addressing the reed area.

[Flettner]

A bit of work around the exhaust ports, a head bolt boss or four, then off to the foundry.

[F5 Dave]

This is going to be cool and funny at the same time (first meeting).

[Grumph]

Getting close Dave. Have the ability to have 2 different pipes with a valve (Fletto loves making these :laugh:) that could switch to either single pipe on its own or both pipes together.

Could lead to a the development of new range of FOS and EngMod2T software with Wobbly fine tuning a new exhaust port % area ratio rule. Bring it on.

Just a side note here. There is a known phenomenon seen on 4 valve, 4 stroke singles with separate exhaust ports and pipes. Put on one port a pipe of the correct length for maximum torque and on the other one correct for maximum power and you get better torque and power than from the optimised lengths for either.
Don't know why but I've seen a couple of dyno sessions proving it.

No idea if it would work on 2T's. Probably the most successful twin pipe 2T would have been the twin port CZ motocrosser. And it used identical pipes both sides.
Well, identical until they got dented.

[Flettner]

Ready for sand

[Flettner]

In the lap of the molten metal gods now.

[Flettner]

From, wood, bondifil and plastic beads to useful hardwear.

[F5 Dave]

Its 7.30. Have you started it up yet? :corn:

[Flettner]

..........

[Flettner]

Some much appreciated sponsorship... Boyesen Reeds.

[F5 Dave]

Just. . Just. .

Popped in on Jimmy month before. One day I'd love to see your shad..

[Flettner]

Scooter flywheel on, head ready to accept a combustion chamber. I might bung ot in the CNC for that.

[190mech]

I see a good amount of welding on those crankcases, can you share your wisdom on how to properly do welding on production cases? I have had limited luck welding them, lots of times it turns to doo-doo !!

Cheers, John

[Flettner]

I see a good amount of welding on those crankcases, can you share your wisdom on how to properly do welding on production cases? I have had limited luck welding them, lots of times it turns to doo-doo !!

Cheers, John

I dont know?
I make a solid steel bar that lightly press fits into each main bearing housing, help keep them aligned as best I can. Clean weld area with brake clean, S/S wire brush, emery cloth, pre heat a little then lay into it with the Tig.
I use 4047 rods, seem to work well.

[Flettner]

Cylinder back from Heat Teatments, now in T6 condition. This weekends machining job perhaps.

[jato]

Great progress as always in that shed... just a precautionary tale to everyone about Brakleen and welding though - some years back i was welding a mazda rotary manifold and was using brakleen and my stainless wire brush throughout the job. next day the mazda guy collected the manifold and commented that i looked real bad. after he got home he sent me this link https://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html. also a story about a fit n healthy home mechanic that did similar to me and he was wheelchair bound within days. I guess he'll be dead now... Projects are neat but we don't want to fry ourselves. Looking forward to more positive posts!

[F5 Dave]

Heck yes. Brake clean is evil stuff. Never knew.

If I was single I'd come up to the first race Neil.

[husaberg]

Heck yes. Brake clean is evil stuff. Never knew.

If I was single I'd come up to the first race Neil.

I am sure Neil's flattered but also married.........;)

As far as i know NZ CRC brakleen doesn't contain the ingredients needed to produce phosgene gas.
ie chlorinated hydrocarbons ie Tetrachloroethylene.
But i am no chemist...

[F5 Dave]

Wynns is the supirerior product, even if I am a few vodkas from spelling.

Haven't met his wife but judging from his daughter his wife is undoubtedly where the looks come from so I won't make any sort of play for him (unless he wins the first moto and I can't contain myself, ) .

I wonder if I can edit this in the morning if it doesn't seem so funny then, ��

[F5 Dave]

Whiskey, gin and brandy
With a glass, I'm pretty handy
I'm tryin' to walk a straight line
On sour mash and cheap wine

[Flettner]

I had a look at the can, it says engine de greaser not brake clean. Always thought they were much the same thing. Either way just make the aluminium as clean as you can I guess.

[husaberg]

I had a look at the can, it says engine de greaser not brake clean. Always thought they were much the same thing. Either way just make the aluminium as clean as you can I guess.

if its CRC
They both have Toluene
the degreaser also has acetone.
It seems most industrial places it seems use just Acetone

the reason being its a decent solvent and Acetone evaporates leaving no residue.
I can't weld for shit regardless. Plus i am no chemist.

It also looks like in NZ version of CRC brakleen does contain still same nasty shit in it ie Methylene Chloride, its different then the simpiler US version..


https://www.glasscorp.co.nz/site/glasscorp/files/pdffiles/s737-msds.pdf
nz

http://docs.crcindustries.com/msds/5151.pdf
US

[190mech]

Thanks for the tips, will try 4047 next go. Sorry, did not want this thread to become a MSDS and OSHA reg area!!

[Flettner]

Slow but still happening. Headers tacked together and in place

[ken seeber]

Slow but still happening. Headers tacked together and in place

Neil, from what we can see, the exhaust is completely finished now. You can move on to the other bits now...:laugh::laugh:

[Pursang]

Neil, from what we can see, the exhaust is completely finished now. You can move on to the other bits now...:laugh::laugh:

Still a little scope for fine tuning the Reverse Cone!
.
http://vhka.mysite.com/images/bantam.jpg

[ken seeber]

Still a little scope for fine tuning the Reverse Cone!
.
http://vhka.mysite.com/images/bantam.jpg

Ha ha, it's a Manx Norton...

[husaberg]

Ha ha, it's a Manx Norton...

Well i got your tale anyway Ken....

[Pursang]

https://cats.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/Manx-Cat-compressed-768x384.jpg

[Flettner]

NZ Cylinders, great job, at turning a pigs ear into a silk purse.

[F5 Dave]

Isn't the vinduro series this weekend or soon?

[Flettner]

Twin pipes, twin mufflers.
Frame modification with swingarm outside supports, swingarm extended by 50mm, after the shock mount. Central backbone cut out to facilitate large direct feed airfilter.

[Pursang]

The swing arm support braces really do stiffen things up. I have them on my SL100/125 VMX and Flat Track bikes.
Just the plates, the side tubes are already there.

The 35mm AG forks work quite well too! I have those fitted on a Vinduro Bultaco.
If I recall correctly, I replaced the top out springs with short urethane bumpers, for a bit more travel. Alum spacers to restore the preload.
ATF works fine, just ensure the damper rod is covered at full extension.

I like this project, Cheers!

[Flettner]

I like this project, Cheers!

As it happens, so do I. I hadn't expected to do so much none engine work but to leave the rest of the AG standard would not do the engine justice I think.

[Pursang]

With the lengthened swingarm, having the footpeg mounts in line with the pivot can balance the handling.
Elimination of the bolt on peg mount saves weight and gives a little more clearance.
Using a std length shifter or a shortened one both work, with MX boots, (at least with Honda g'box).

I like using preformed automotive exhaust section pieces to speed up pipe building. :niceone:
Tapered cuts or fill pieces on the inside of bends will produce nice looking curved cones too.

[Flettner]

A little more work.

[Flettner]

Head done, now to fit these electrical parts.

[F5 Dave]

Way cool, but what with the car battery? Just used a 2200uf cap but was pushngo on bike. Does kickstarter affect?

[Flettner]

So, the AG clutch push rod is 6mm, hole up the middle of the RX gearbox shaft is 5mm.
Just got a 5mm dia plastic die ejector pin, P20 steel, nitride surface, perfect but I'll have to find a 5mm seal to replace the 6mm one.
Its time to fire up the twin port cylinder AG, Ill have to do a short video of first fire up.

[Grumph]

Silver steel is my go-to for clutch pushrods. So easy to quench harden the ends.

[F5 Dave]

Twa mine too but finally ran out. Where did I buy it:confused:

[husaberg]

https://tradetools.co.nz/shop/saws-filing-steels/key-shim-and-silver-steels/silver-steel
https://www.georgehenry.co.nz/shop/Consumables/Miscellaneous/Silver+Steel.html
https://www.ssm.co.nz/products/category/22

[Flettner]

Fire, smoke and noise last night, it runs.

[husaberg]

More fins than split enz

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/MJvAeCqa9Cc

[Grumph]

More fins than split enz

I can actually hear them ringing in the video

[Flettner]

You on the money, Grumph.
My 5mm ejector pin wont fit, seems it needs to be 3/16" so I just got some 3/16" silver steel, and it fits, thankyou.

Odd that 5mm wont fit???

[husaberg]

I can actually hear them ringing in the video

It seems Neil even left areas to insert STD yamaha fin rubbers by the look of it.;)

[Flettner]

https://youtu.be/FJ-9WDkJWfU?si=3ELSuCYVPxe6gbfL

[F5 Dave]

Well I've hever heard a DT sound like that, let alone an AG!:crazy:. That will be interesting.

[Flettner]

The AG and I did our first trail ride together last weekend, 60 kilometers. Seems to go alright, fun to ride epecially 'on the pipes'. Might be time to cast a new improved cylinder.

[Flettner]

Bugger the rules, a new cylinder with twin powervalves and a fluid thermal transfer system, to the air cooled section of the engine (commonly known as a radiator).

[Grumph]

Fill it with oil and it becomes a perfectly legit oil cooler.

[Flettner]

Fill it with oil and it becomes a perfectly legit oil cooler.


Glycol? Is not water.

[Grumph]

Glycol? Is not water.

Glycol is banned for roadracing, might be banned for all competition. Cbf looking.

[F5 Dave]

How about Fanta?.

[Grumph]

How about Fanta?.

Sugar free or full fat ?

[Flettner]

Powervalve bosses in place

[Flettner]

Water core under construction, distributes water in under the A ports on its way up between the two exhaust ports. Still a work in progress as its shape needs a little refinement yet. Then make a sand core box around it.

[Pursang]

https://gifdb.com/images/high/amazed-smiling-patrick-star-v0jw77uzp7zpuf5m.gif

[Flettner]

Time to make proper chamber bends, no more pissing around.
https://youtube.com/shorts/E10hXemDJik?si=COUmg1P-cXLH9cls

[Flettner]

Half the job done

[Grumph]

There was a guy down here in the 70's who pressed out exactly that. Matt Gibbons - Dale Wylie's flatmate. He needed tham for chambers for a 750 Kawasaki but offered them around the ChCh 2 stroke guys. Should have bought several sets as they were pretty cheap. Would have saved me a lot of time over the years.

His were done in the NAC workshops - pre Air NZ.

[F5 Dave]

Haven't seen him for about a decade, he was big into 'mercan cars (and trucks). Used to share some premises with a motorcycle engineer of sorts.

[pete376403]

Haven't seen him for about a decade, he was big into 'mercan cars (and trucks). Used to share some premises with a motorcycle engineer of sorts.

Is he the Matt Gibbons in the Wellington area who has the Dodge Challenger Daytona (pointy nose, huge rear wing) among others?

[Grumph]

yes. Haven't seen him in ChCh for decades now.

[Ascott]

It was a Plymouth Superbird, he used to come to the Wairarapa Car Club 1/4 mile sprints, lot of years ago.

[husaberg]

https://www.pressreader.com/australia/nzv8/20210301/281651077797526

https://www.pressreader.com/australia/nzv8/20190311/284331136001486

https://nzv8.co.nz/2018-12-11-half-a-century-on-50-years-of-port-road-drags/

[Flettner]

Fit perfectly, sized right.

[Flettner]

Three degree header bend dies made now.

[speedpro]

I want to see the video where you form them explosively in the dies.

[Flettner]

AG100 still running, a number if events under its belt now, seems reliable. Here just massaging the advance curve a little.

[Flettner]

The water cooled, twin powervalve cylinder slowly getting
closer to reality.

[F5 Dave]

Performance vs std? Any match up comparisons?

[Flettner]

No, nothing to match up against

[Flettner]

To be fair Dave, two optimized cylinders would have to be made by someone that knows what they are doing, one with eye ports and one with twin exhaust ports.
With optimized pipes to suit, for an accurate answer.

[F5 Dave]

I was meaning compared to an AG.

Sounds great on YouTube. Does it create a stir?

[Flettner]

AG100, No comparison.
Most see it as an oddity, which it is, but yes once its heard running, generally plenty of questions.
Blackwood Yamaha have another AG100 to sponsor me. This will allow me to build a second water cooled bike without wreaking this one.
Ive found that the ignition was retarded too early, on adjustment the transition into the power is much better, almost a pleasure to ride now.
It will be interesting to see how the water cooled engine with new 'proper pipe pressings' and twin blade powervalves performs. Might need to make an EN39B gearbox for that one, AG gears are not very robust looking.

[Wos]

AG100 still running, a number if events under its belt now, seems reliable. Here just massaging the advance curve a little.

Interesting to see ignition curves!

I guess your bike starts to reso at about 6000 und its peak power is, where 15 dregree is set...!?

But why setting a flatout with 15 degree?

In my understanding this overheating gases in zylinder, while further the piston is in compression cycle....ouch 😞
Causing risk of detonation and killing :( overev. ..

Better to minimize advance after peak in a falling advance cirve to 10 degree...then do a flatout...like wobbly advice somewhere in eses.... 😀

I bet you are gaining lots of overev and engine will live longer 😉

Grüße Wolfgang

[Flettner]

I dont know exactly, its never been near a dyno. This is what just feels and sounds right.
It did the final round of our Vinduro NZ, still running and didn't embarrass itself.

[husaberg]

if it helps this is what a 125 cylindered GP bike has

354713

[Wos]

I dont know exactly, its never been near a dyno. This is what just feels and sounds right.
It did the final round of our Vinduro NZ, still running and didn't embarrass itself.


Okok ;)

We have been never near a dyno for years too!

Cempeting in german/ european classic enduro Championship with 125 TGM and 75 cc HRD...next time with Puch Frigerio rotax-124, all from beginning of the 80ties 😉

And now we recogniced...our feeling for peak power or reso begin is only between 700 to 1000 rounds per minute precise...even with chainsaw rev mesurement 😞

Only 3 degree to high after real peak power and we lost lots of overev

Do your bike and yourself a favour 😀 one time on a dyno and i am sure you find better ignition settings :Punk:

By the way...best luck in tuning and racing 😀

Grüße Wolfgang

[Wos]

if it helps this is what a 125 cylindered GP bike has

354713

Yes husa...and there is a Script from Frits in german

To download here

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://oil-club.de/wcf/index.php%3Fattachment/23174-z-ndkurven-132-pdf/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjO2ujPv66GAxVOcfEDHTikD8AQFnoECAIQAg&usg=AOvVaw2oDBCLsI6-DywfYmM_B4OH

But in enduro use we do not use 30 degree in lower revs, to have better drivability under reso �� thats necessary for trial passages in enduro ;)

Fix points for every engine are

- 15 degree only at the moment off peak power

- begin of falling from high advance (for example 30 degree in frits curve) in area round reso begin ;)

My experience is that aircooled are more senitive and critical with to high advance everywhere and not every bike likes 30 degree before resonance...you recogniced this in rough behavior... slightly a knocking...instead of clean smooth reving higher and higher...

Grüße Wolfgang

Grüße Wolfgang

[Wos]

Our curve for Example for you fellows ��

Black curve ...you have to add 5* cause of a offset

resonance begin 6200 rpm 27*

Peak power at 10250 15*

Then a falling of about 5* within next 1200 rpm


Grüße! Wolfgang

[Flettner]

Okok ;)

We have been never near a dyno for years too!

Cempeting in german/ european classic enduro Championship with 125 TGM and 75 cc HRD...next time with Puch Frigerio rotax-124, all from beginning of the 80ties ��

And now we recogniced...our feeling for peak power or reso begin is only between 700 to 1000 rounds per minute precise...even with chainsaw rev mesurement ��

Only 3 degree to high after real peak power and we lost lots of overev

Do your bike and yourself a favour �� one time on a dyno and i am sure you find better ignition settings :Punk:

By the way...best luck in tuning and racing ��

Grüße Wolfgang

To get this engine dynoed will cost, this is just a twin port tryout engine, I don't want to waste money on it.
The next, water cooled, powervalve, cylinder will be worth a dyno run.

[Wos]

To get this engine dynoed will cost, this is just a twin port tryout engine, I don't want to waste money on it.
The next, water cooled, powervalve, cylinder will be worth a dyno run.

Ok.. but ;)

Give the thing a chance without dynoing ;)
Just integrating the falling curve after the peak you feel...and do a test ride :rockon: ;)

[Flettner]

Yes Sir, Ill plug the computer in and give it a try next time I run it.

[Wos]

Yes Sir, Ill plug the computer in and give it a try next time I run it.

Aye aye Sir :) yes Captain :laugh:

Exciting to aiming for a progress
... top ;) :first:

If you are not sure if you hit peak power with 15*, give it a try and set 15* 500 rpm earlier...do another testride...and so on vice versa...listen and feel what bike is trying to tell you :2thumbsup:drinknsin

If you gain something...i will listen to ;)

Thanks! Wolfgang

[Flettner]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/RMbCfX4apjaedZgm/?mibextid=A7sQZp

Its been a pretty dissapointing season until this last round. Best fun I've had in years. Nothing to do with the bike, a knee injury buggered me up after the first round.

[Pursang]

Well Done Neil! :first:

[Wos]

Italien HRD 1982 ... Happy red devil...75 cc minarell K6 converted to watercooled 😉 never PERFEKT!!! ..WE learn every year:woohoo:


https://enduro-klassik.de

[Flettner]

Decided on a proper (accurate) set of pipes for the AG, before it heads off to the dyno.

[husaberg]

Decided on a proper (accurate) set of pipes for the AG, before it heads off to the dyno.
pressed?.....

[Flettner]

pressed?.....

As per these press tools, the rest either turned or rolled.

[Flettner]

Much better and they tuck in tighter, more room for my knees.

[husaberg]

Much better and they tuck in tighter, more room for my knees.
I overheard a story that those knees have their own FB female appreciation site.....
https://givealittle.co.nz/widget/light-skyscraper/cause/helpneil

I love how you did the holder/cutouts for the anti ringing rubbers in cylinder ,that must confuse a few..

[F5 Dave]

Those forks look fairly sturdy. Hope they have some emulators hiding in there.

[husaberg]

Those forks look fairly sturdy. Hope they have some emulators hiding in there.

pretty sure they are off a larger AG leading axle AG200?

[F5 Dave]

Pipes need a stealth cost of black zinc.

[Flettner]

I dont know how many pipes Ive made over the years but even with nicely pressed bends, its still a time consuming job. All weekend and still not finished, I there are two of the jolly things.
No, forks are standard AG200 units, night and day better than the original AG100 forks. Using emulators is leagal in Hustler class.

Interesting to note that there is an AG class in VMX but you may only run original shockansorbers. Bugger that.

[Flettner]

Sorry you will have to read the last post as it is, for some reason something has changed on this site not allowing any Edit function.

[Flettner]

Molding up the water cooled twin exhaust AG cylinder.

[Flettner]

Done, the water cooled, twin powervalve cylinder.
This one just gets a jacket welded around, it is just a one off after all.
Cast along side some Subaru EA81 heads.

[Flettner]

The TF variant, case reed.

[F5 Dave]

G4TR version next?

[Flettner]

G4TR version next?

This one next

[F5 Dave]

Ok so how about an XL185?

No, wait, I don't know what I was thinking. :rolleyes:

[Flettner]

Back to plan A, rule change allows for water cooling now.
So no need to hang on to the air cooled cylinder, the AG will benifit a lot from an upgrade to powervalve and water cooling. This cylinder Ive cast for the TF will fit straight on to the AG, exhausts and all. Time to make the change.

The TF will now receive the new 54 x55 cylinder with proper cast in water galleries, a new crank required. I already own a 54mm single ring Aprilia piston. Still reed valve for the minute. Disc valve will have to wait.

[F5 Dave]

So my disc valve experience in tye dirt consists of a GP100 with skinny knobblies $40ea, but combined were well in excess of the bikes purchase price.

Anyhoo, I did find that when going downhill on closed throttle, I wanted to blip over a small obstacle. Bwooar, clunk over it, bwaah(seconds too late).

Reeds are good on dirtbike I concluded.

[Flettner]

Youve never ridden a proper disc valve engine, have you.
Sliding gibb coupled with powervalve is a game changer.
You should try it sometime.

[ken seeber]

Cuppler things:

1. Fletto has obviously written/writing the rules

2. Where in the world can you still buy 2 stroke "chook chaser" bikes? Is Old Zealand still part of the world?

[F5 Dave]

Rotax256 in GP chassis seemed just fine as did a couple of KE buckets on longer tracks. (Shorter tracks were quite abrupt).
Dirt is a different , but good to hear.

[Flettner]

Granted, a 1973 Kawasaki but, this is great fun on the dirt, even for the heavy pig that it is. No worries about what gear you are in just open the tap and point.

[diesel pig]

Got to say to say what impress's me the most about that 1973 Kawasaki is the wide power band 6000 to 9000. nice!

[F5 Dave]

Rereading my post, the GP chassis mentioned was early 80s Ally short run 250GP chassis. . .not the GP100 I mentioned before. That would be just silly.

No doubting a decent Rotary valve, but they, like piston porters have the potential to load up on closed throttle. More over an issue in the dirt on trail where long downhills are a thing. Reeds are so ideal for coping with this.
You'd need some way of closing off the Inlet substantially to reduce this effect.
Oh.
Do you know how far you can practically close the gibberish timing? (Ha! Spellchecker error, but I'll leave it in for giggles).

[TZ350]

Do you know how far you can practically close the gibberish timing? (Ha! Spellchecker error, but I'll leave it in for giggles).

The one I saw. Mechanically, it can be completely closed. Practibly, it can be used like a carburetor slide from idle to fully wide open. It also could be positioned to tune out negative waves in the inlet tract. It did not open linearly with rpm. But moved in and out as required. Anyway that is how I remember it from when it was up on the dyno. Since then there has been an even clever double sided setup.

[Flettner]

https://youtube.com/shorts/rxc1OFcQgPM?si=YGrNu1fSoJDbyYwp

You have seen this Dave, but here again to view

[Flettner]

New rules allowing for water cooling, perhaps the supercharged 150 twin might happen after all.
Having a lot if FZR 250 parts laying around, suddenly the price is right.

[Flettner]

Birth of two water cooled twin port AG cylinders, I hope.

[Flettner]

Powervalve blades, under construction.

[F5 Dave]

Ooh tasty. . . Which is not something generally uttered in AG conversation. :laugh:

[katinas]

Powervalve blades, under construction.

This is what's left of a youth days project that I never realized. Made this cylinder for a 340cc 76x75mm air cooled engine for road racing.

[Flettner]

Powervalve drive, cylinder and water system finished.

[diesel pig]

Powervalve drive, cylinder and water system finished.

First thing, Very cool what you are doing. But more importantly what is that power valve motor off?

[F5 Dave]

My bet is kawasaki. Never seen one but it's not yamaha and I have a hunch hes funny like that.

So. . When's the Vtwin?:devil2:

[husaberg]

My bet is kawasaki. Never seen one but it's not yamaha and I have a hunch hes funny like that.

So. . When's the Vtwin?:devil2:
Looks like a EXup servo off a YZFR1?
https://partversal.co.uk/motodalysen/product/8126376

[F5 Dave]

Oops, well the earlier ones had a big bulge for the motor just like the RZs.

[Flettner]

It was supplied by my sponsor, Blackwood Yamaha, so I'd imagine it's a Yamaha item.

[Flettner]

80 degree angle miter gears made, one brass, one steel (4140), blades back from hard anodising, might be ready this weekend .... or might not.

[Flettner]

Powervalve operation.
https://youtu.be/-I2byEv-n8Y?si=yB8JsHFT6MtanY5t

[diesel pig]

Looks like a EXup servo off a YZFR1?
https://partversal.co.uk/motodalysen/product/8126376

Yeah, That is what it is. After a quick e-bay search but be careful the prices are all over the place, some are low price unit, high shipping or high unit, low shipping. So hopefully there are some are low unit, Low shipping prices somewhere on e-bay.

[husaberg]

Yeah, That is what it is. After a quick e-bay search but be careful the prices are all over the place, some are low price unit, high shipping or high unit, low shipping. So hopefully there are some are low unit, Low shipping prices somewhere on e-bay.

Have you considered trying here?
While not as compact the WR250R has an EXup as do a lot of other Yamaha's normally first thing people do is biff these?

[diesel pig]

Have you considered trying here?
While not as compact the WR250R has an EXup as do a lot of other Yamaha's normally first thing people do is biff these?

I just liked how compact and tidy they are. When I do another power valve setup I will be looking for one.

[Flettner]

https://youtube.com/shorts/WgfU8sHdW2w?si=KcAnWXfbq-fJCXsz

[F5 Dave]

Think pa had one just like that on the farm.

[Flettner]

https://www.facebook.com/share/p/16b18uyFmK/

The water cooled, powervalve AG at Tar Hill vinduro recently.

[Flettner]

Off on a new tangent, 150cc twin supercharged fourstroke.

[F5 Dave]

The Devil take ya. Heresy! :devil2: