Modern spoke rims vs mags

[R650R]

Ok experts. In the modern big bore adventure touring and sport touring class some bikes from same or similar manufacturer come with tubeless spoke wheels or mags.
So what are the pros and cons apart from the obvious of a spike rime iscprob cheaper repair after rock hot than a mag.
Is the there any top speed limitation with spokes or other issues
And yes I know you can choose to knit better rims on like Nakatomis with spike hubs etc easily.

[rastuscat]

Ok experts. In the modern big bore adventure touring and sport touring class some bikes from same or similar manufacturer come with tubeless spoke wheels or mags.
So what are the pros and cons apart from the obvious of a spike rime iscprob cheaper repair after rock hot than a mag.
Is the there any top speed limitation with spokes or other issues
And yes I know you can choose to knit better rims on like Nakatomis with spike hubs etc easily.

Manufacturers seem to spec spokes on higher end models, as they are perceived (and probably are) stronger than mags. The R1200GS had mags, but the GSA was specced with spokes. It's almost a pissing contest.

Surely you would have to do something magnificently stupid to break a mag. I like the spoke look, but would I pay extra for it? Nah.

Mags are also easier to keep clean, which is kind of important to me, as a Virgo.

But I still like the look of spokes.

[george formby]

Off road, riding over baby heads and the like, spokes offer a certain amount of flex and a rim will bend before it breaks. Mags can crack in similar circumstances. I've heard a story of someone cracking their mag wheel on a gravel road, hitting the lip of a pothole. I think the bike was a Beemer.

[1/32 man]

Off road, riding over baby heads and the like, spokes offer a certain amount of flex and a rim will bend before it breaks. Mags can crack in similar circumstances. I've heard a story of someone cracking their mag wheel on a gravel road, hitting the lip of a pothole. I think the bike was a Beemer.

Agree, in the 4x4 world a steel wheel is preferred over alloys for that very reason.

[rastuscat]

Agree, in the 4x4 world a steel wheel is preferred over alloys for that very reason.

Yes, but given that most GSAs are ridden on a front lawn at worst, it does seem a bit silly.

[george formby]

Yes, but given that most GSAs are ridden on a front lawn at worst, it does seem a bit silly.

And it's not like you can easily float the front wheel.... :shutup:

Just noticed the speed query. As long as they are balanced, no issues with spoked wheels at warp speed, Captain.

[pete376403]

A friend bent the front rim of his K100 in a big sharp edged pothole , enough to pop the tyre of the bead. We removed the wheel, took it to a nearby gas station, beat the rim back into shape (took some hammering, too) and re-inflated the tyre. worked fine for as long as he owned that bike

[george formby]

A friend bent the front rim of his K100 in a big sharp edged pothole , enough to pop the tyre of the bead. We removed the wheel, took it to a nearby gas station, beat the rim back into shape (took some hammering, too) and re-inflated the tyre. worked fine for as long as he owned that bike

:laugh:
Yup, a few videos about of riders smacking their rims.:eek:

I rode my old XT350 with a dented rim for ages. Only noticed when I got a new tyre fitted.

[R650R]

Thanks for your input guys, found some vids that said similar stuff. Feel better about parting with silly money now....
I’ve directly and indirectly seen plenty of mags dented by potholes and driveway edges and it seems in the adv world that KTM1190/1290 rims made of butter.
That million dollar bogan fella has now rooted two seperate road king Harley front wheels so nothing’s safe lol....

You do have to wonder how many cases are due to low tyre pressure though....

[george formby]

You do have to wonder how many cases are due to low tyre pressure though....

Too low....

Off road you need lower pressures, that's where the "give" in a spoked wheels helps.
You can't get moved on youtube for videos of folk punting 200kg+ ADV bikes at warp speed over gnarly terrain. I guess this is where the problem lies, inappropriate velocity. Mere mortals with finite wallets usually ride a bit slower

Everything is relative of course. On an ADV bike low might be 24psi, on a trials bike low is 4psi.

Speaking of which, rarely do I see trials bikes have rim issues despite spending most of their time being smacked in to rock steps.

Soooo, are you thinking of going tubed or tubeless?:whistle:

And normal spokes or heavyweight ones?

[pete376403]

:laugh:
Yup, a few videos about of riders smacking their rims.:eek:

I rode my old XT350 with a dented rim for ages. Only noticed when I got a new tyre fitted.

The BMW K100 wheels were cast, not wire spoked. However there is no shortage of forum posts (ADVrider) from KTM riders with bent and split rims of wire spoke wheels either.

[merv]

Agree, in the 4x4 world a steel wheel is preferred over alloys for that very reason.

However, in the ADV bike world aren't the rims of the spoked wheels all alloy these days anyway? I haven't had a steel rimmed bike since my 1973 Honda XL175.

[george formby]

However, in the ADV bike world aren't the rims of the spoked wheels all alloy these days anyway? I haven't had a steel rimmed bike since my 1973 Honda XL175.

That's a good question.

If they are it bends before it breaks. Pretty sure someone posted a vid of bashing the rim straight(er) on a T7. Enough to keep the tyre in place, any hoo.

What does white corrosion inside a wheel rim imply?

[Kickaha]

Off road you need lower pressures, that's where the "give" in a spoked wheels helps.

Depends entirely on the terrain, unless you need more traction I wouldn't bother

[george formby]

Depends entirely on the terrain, unless you need more traction I wouldn't bother

Totally agree. I only air down when I'm sick of falling off.

[R1madness]

That's a good question.

If they are it bends before it breaks. Pretty sure someone posted a vid of bashing the rim straight(er) on a T7. Enough to keep the tyre in place, any hoo.

What does white corrosion inside a wheel rim imply?

Moisture. Most likely from the last person that installed the tire using a watered-down bead lube.

[merv]

Moisture. Most likely from the last person that installed the tire using a watered-down bead lube.

If it is a tubed tyre, especially with ordinary spokes, they get wet between tyre and tube anyway and the old steel rims used to rust like crazy. Tubeless tyre, of course should stay dry inside except for bead lube.

[R650R]

Too low....

Off road you need lower pressures, that's where the "give" in a spoked wheels helps.
You can't get moved on youtube for videos of folk punting 200kg+ ADV bikes at warp speed over gnarly terrain. I guess this is where the problem lies, inappropriate velocity. Mere mortals with finite wallets usually ride a bit slower

Everything is relative of course. On an ADV bike low might be 24psi, on a trials bike low is 4psi.

Speaking of which, rarely do I see trials bikes have rim issues despite spending most of their time being smacked in to rock steps.

Soooo, are you thinking of going tubed or tubeless?:whistle:

And normal spokes or heavyweight ones?

Tubeless of course there’s not much these days that needs tubes now in new bike arena. I’m happy with changing a wheel in the Bush but why of theyes an alternative option

[george formby]

Tubeless of course there’s not much these days that needs tubes now in new bike arena. I’m happy with changing a wheel in the Bush but why of theyes an alternative option

I asked tongue in cheek. The tubed / tubeless debate is right up there with which oil to use and running in procedure for getting folks to have an, er, vigorous debate.

Tubeless is great if a puncture can be fixed with a dog turd but any sidewall damage and it's game over.

TBH, it's not something that keeps me awake at night, the likelihood of me firing a big ADV into the kind of scenery which would rip a sidewall is very remote.

[R650R]

Distantly related, asking for a friend are anodised aluminium wheel/axle nuts legal on motorbike?

While searching other stuff discovered by chance they are a WOF fail on cars. Seems lots nz Mc retailers selling them but no mention of caveat on road use????

[Grumph]

I wouldn't use them. Axles are fine thread which is not optimal for aluminium - even hard anodised.

[BMWST?]

the spoke wheels look ultra cool and are probably more xpensive to make.Hence why you find them on up market bikes

[HenryDorsetCase]

I wouldn't use them. Axles are fine thread which is not optimal for aluminium - even hard anodised.

I bought a titanium nut for the rear axle on my VFR400. It was so pretty I put it on my desk as an ornament and its still there....

[rastuscat]

I bought a titanium nut for the rear axle on my VFR400. It was so pretty I put it on my desk as an ornament and its still there....

I have titanium nuts.

But that's a different topic.

[pete376403]

I have titanium nuts.

But that's a different topic.

Lightweight. Brass is the preferred metal

[BMWST?]

Lightweight. Brass is the preferred metal
otherwise we wouldnt know we were freezing

[rastuscat]

otherwise we wouldnt know we were freezing

Anyone interested to know where "freezing the balls off a brass monkey" came from?

Canon balls on sailing ships used to be stacked into a brass frame called a brass monkey. When fully stacked, if it got bitterly cold, the size of the brass monkey frame shrunk just enough to no longer support the canon balls, and they would fall off.

So, freeze the balls off a brass monkey.

You're welcome.

[Moise]

Anyone interested to know where "freezing the balls off a brass monkey" came from?

Canon balls on sailing ships used to be stacked into a brass frame called a brass monkey. When fully stacked, if it got bitterly cold, the size of the brass monkey frame shrunk just enough to no longer support the canon balls, and they would fall off.

So, freeze the balls off a brass monkey.

You're welcome.I have an Irish friend who tells stories like this. [emoji1]

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[Laava]

Does he just arbitrarily make them up too?
:innocent:

[caseye]

Does he just arbitrarily make them up too?
:innocent:

Ol Rastus is 100% Correct in this case, sure he's not made it up, tuther bloke, Maybe???
:bleh:

[Laava]

Yeah I know, I was teasing him!
https://www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-16960,00.html#:~:text=NOOKS%20AND%20CRANNIES-,The%20expression%3A%20%22It%20is%20cold%20enough% 20to%20freeze%20the%20balls,iron%20balls%20to%20fa ll%20out.

[Moise]

Does he just arbitrarily make them up too?
:innocent:Well, I think he believed them! His version of "saved by the bell" was priceless. Something about people having a bell they could ring if they came back to life after being buried?

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[R650R]

Well, I think he believed them! His version of "saved by the bell" was priceless. Something about people having a bell they could ring if they came back to life after being buried?

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Probably related to dead ringers.

In ancient times medical expertise was not at same level. There were cases of people about to be buried knocking or screaming I guess inside their coffin.
Someone came up with idea of burying with a bell they could use to sound alarm in case they woke up too late. I think one version had string attached to a bell on the grave.

[Laava]

Well, I think he believed them! His version of "saved by the bell" was priceless. Something about people having a bell they could ring if they came back to life after being buried?

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Pretty sure there will be a basis of truth in that too!…