Mayor Wayne Brown

[1/32 man]

Is this guy an arse hole?
Is this guy a bully?
Is this guy an unfriendly grumpy looking prick?

If he is any of those things I cannot tell but the media "drongos" sure portrait him to be one.

Whaddya reckon?

[TheDemonLord]

He's a Mayor of Auckland, so probably a Cunt.
He's also a Labour man, so probably a Cunt.
But most of all... He's a politician, so Definitely a Cunt.

[Dobbin]

Did you mean Wayne Brown, or are you talking about the mayor from 2010 to 2013?

[1/32 man]

Did you mean Wayne Brown, or are you talking about the mayor from 2010 to 2013?

Thanks for the correction, yes, the current Auckland mayor.

[1/32 man]

He's also a Labour man, so probably a Cunt.

How can you tell? He looks a bit too masculine for that doesn't he?

[TheDemonLord]

How can you tell? He looks a bit too masculine for that doesn't he?

I was talking about Len Brown.

That said, I put it to the reader that all the same points for Wayne Brown are applicable.

And if he's not a Labour man, but a National man, it doesn't change ;)

[pritch]

Auckland was too racist to vote for a brown man, so they voted for a man named Brown.

He says he was voted in so nobody can remove him. He should have a chat with some long serving senior staff members, he may find different. I seem to recall councils being removed by the government of the day and a commissioner or similar being appointed. He would need to be majorly bad for that to happen though, meantime he can just carry on being thick and an arsehole. He has those roles down pat.

[george formby]

Auckland was too racist to vote for a brown man, so they voted for a man named Brown.

He says he was voted in so nobody can remove him. He should have a chat with some long serving senior staff members, he may find different. I seem to recall councils being removed by the government of the day and a commissioner or similar being appointed. He would need to be majorly bad for that to happen though, meantime he can just carry on being thick and an arsehole. He has those roles down pat.

When he spent a lot of time up here, teh north bit, and became Mayor he was singularly disliked. He was into Real Estate and a lot of people dislike him personally. Self serving and a bit of a twat.

Bit of Wiki (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wayne_Brown_(New_Zealand_politician))

[TheDemonLord]

Auckland was too racist to vote for a brown man, so they voted for a man named Brown.

I mean, it could be Racism, it could also be that Efeso Collins was endorsed by Labour and the Greens and Aucklanders have seen what the policies of the Greens and Labour have done to them (Lockdowns, Crime etc.) and wanted something different - perhaps like the city they used to have before Labour and the Greens fucked it up...

[HenryDorsetCase]

Wayne brown is a complete fucking twunt. Len Brown liked to bang a chinese lady (confusingly called Bevan - no, I don't know either) on the council table. Both were and are loathsome fucking idiots.

But, here's a thing: fucktard Wayne Brown (henceforth to be referred to as, and only as, "Code Brown") was elected by a narrow margin over a brown man Mr Collins. Only 35% of eligible voters actually cast a ballot and (without looking it up) you might say 17.6% vs 17.5% or something like that.

So any Aucklander that fucking complains can get fucked unless: 1: they voted, and 2: they voted for the other guy. Otherwise you get what you fucking deserve. Same as anyone who didnt give enough of a shit to put a few marks on some paper and put it in a freakin' envelope.

Shame.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I mean, it could be Racism, it could also be that Efeso Collins was endorsed by Labour and the Greens and Aucklanders have seen what the policies of the Greens and Labour have done to them (Lockdowns, Crime etc.) and wanted something different - perhaps like the city they used to have before Labour and the Greens fucked it up...

LOL, really? in this halcyon age, how was it different?

[HenryDorsetCase]

How can you tell? He looks a bit too masculine for that doesn't he?

He's an aging boomer bully is what he is.

[jellywrestler]

how much of it is the media hunting every little negative and not actually seeing what good he may do?

[R650R]

how much of it is the media hunting every little negative and not actually seeing what good he may do?

Yep. I was just about to post “what has he done that’s bad?” I saw a news article saying something along the lined of only he would be talking about council response etc but that’s no different to “ the single source of truth”.
The platform did a good piece on this, the media are just trying to find a target. But this flooding mess is just decades of under investment couple with recent mega intensification of dense housing.
I think the media doesn’t like him as he just talks normal, he doesn’t give them the crafted political sound bites they love.

[TheDemonLord]

Yep. I was just about to post “what has he done that’s bad?” I saw a news article saying something along the lined of only he would be talking about council response etc but that’s no different to “ the single source of truth”.
The platform did a good piece on this, the media are just trying to find a target. But this flooding mess is just decades of under investment couple with recent mega intensification of dense housing.
I think the media doesn’t like him as he just talks normal, he doesn’t give them the crafted political sound bites they love.

In Short: The media is butthurt he's not a raging Communist.

[BMW_BeMyWings]

When he was mayor up here in Northland he suggested residents and farmers should spray old engine oil onto gravel roads as a dust suppressant (rather than the council fixing it). Because back then I still did care about things, I wrote a letter to the newspaper saying that this is ridiculous because that oil will end up in our waterways. He replied with "In order to get cancer from old engine oil one would have to eat the road".

No further comment.

[pritch]

Brown arrived demanding the resignations of everybody on various council associated bodies. It quickly became obvious he had no idea what the bodies were actually supposed to be doing, let alone whether or not they were performing well or otherwise.

I can't help but wonder if his vocal opposition to Three Waters still holds since it has now been made apparent that Auckland badly needs it. He has made it clear he doesn't want government interference in Auckland. Presumably he wants the tax payer to fund his wish list with no oversight or control. That's not how it works.

He gives the impression that he has no idea of the actual role of a mayor. He seems to have confused the role with that of a king.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Brown arrived demanding the resignations of everybody on various council associated bodies. It quickly became obvious he had no idea what the bodies were actually supposed to be doing, let alone whether or not they were performing well or otherwise.

I can't help but wonder if his vocal opposition to Three Waters still holds since it has now been made apparent that Auckland badly needs it. He has made it clear he doesn't want government interference in Auckland. Presumably he wants the tax payer to fund his wish list with no oversight or control. That's not how it works.

He gives the impression that he has no idea of the actual role of a mayor. He seems to have confused the role with that of a king.

His only stated policy position was "We need to move the port north". So 100 miles away, and northland roads. JUst so him and his owners could garner immense profits. and without realising that Ports of Auckland owns all that land.

Chancing cunt, woefully illequipped to deal with public office - notwithstanding 6 years in norfland.

Also a bully - getting in a lift with someone and saying "What do you do?" and then saying "How is that even a job?".

No idea about the separation of governance and management. Thinks he is a Russian oligarch in charge of a formerly state owned oil refinery (to just imagine a hypothetical out of nowhere). Mayors have little executive authority in New Zealand. The governing body is the council itself and fuckface has one vote out of 20 and (correct me if I am wrong) a casting vote in the event of a tie. But ties don't happen because of party politics really. The council employ one staff member: the chief executive. The chief executive employs all the rest of the staff.

decided it is beneath him to work more than 6 hours a day because well, fuck you ratepayers the gig doesnt pay enough and he wants to play tennis.

So, to recap: no understanding of the role, a bully, lazy, no grasp of the issues.

And I'd still vote for him over Luxon even if it was an election for who runs the school canteen. Not that either of them should be near impressionable young minds.

[TheDemonLord]

getting in a lift with someone and saying "What do you do?" and then saying "How is that even a job?".

If the US big tech layoffs are any sort of weather-vane, there seems to be a good number of people whose job could be referred to in such a manner.

And then one has to ask, Public institutions are notoriously worse for bloat than companies - is it any stretch of the imagination to think that Councils (especially Auckland Council) would be filled with such 'workers'?

[admenk]

Is it my imagination or has he got really hairy hands?

https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/4/z/1/8/9/5/image.related.StuffLandscapeSixteenByNine.710x400. 25h0le.png/1666587730032.jpg?format=pjpg&optimize=medium

[HenryDorsetCase]

If the US big tech layoffs are any sort of weather-vane, there seems to be a good number of people whose job could be referred to in such a manner.

And then one has to ask, Public institutions are notoriously worse for bloat than companies - is it any stretch of the imagination to think that Councils (especially Auckland Council) would be filled with such 'workers'?

Even if it is (and I grant you that it might be, if a comparison with the very limited dealings I have with the bureaucracy here is valid) my point is and was that Fucknuckle Code Brown (and now I have seen those hands and that $500 worth of Thai dentistry, I cant fucking unsee it) the point is that his role is a governance role. the council is a board of directors: it sets policy and goals. Want to cut costs? task the CEO (the sole employee, remember) with cost reduction. Want to target those cost cuts? Again: the new policy is that XYZ is not core local gubblemunt business: sell it off or downsize it or lose it all together: Strategic directive issued to CEO, who fucking sorts it out if he wants his contract renewed.

Browns conduct is exactly that of a board director going down the shop floor, and firing someone on a whim. Probably would have gotten away with it in the 50's and 60's. Not now. All it is is a fucking gift to the employment lawyer who takes it who immediately starts thinking about how big a boat this will buy. Fucking stupid all round. Like I said: 1 out of 20.

Do you think he washes his hands thoroughly after a shit... just to make sure? I mean arse-dags are bad enough, but shitballs on your knuckles? Ugh.

[1/32 man]

Thanks for the comments, gentlefolk.

I have enjoyed much of the very descriptive prose that is on display in this thread.

I bow to your literary wit.

[pete376403]

I'm sure that catchy phrase " not my job to run in with buckets", although correct, will come back to haunt him at election time when the people who have had their properties flooded are considering who might do a better job.

[pritch]

Is it my imagination or has he got really hairy hands?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1PFz56XWQI

[neels]

I seem to recall councils being removed by the government of the day and a commissioner or similar being appointed.
Ecan springs to mind (there's a joke coming if you think hard enough), when we had a National government, and they were saying no to farmers wanting more ground water. Clearly incompetent, so needed to be replaced by government appointed commissioners who would say yes.


Public institutions are notoriously worse for bloat than companies
That's why all those essential services that used to be publicly owned got so much cheaper for the consumer when they were sold off to private shareholders....

[TheDemonLord]

That's why all those essential services that used to be publicly owned got so much cheaper for the consumer when they were sold off to private shareholders....

That depends a lot on a number of factors.

I also remember how inefficient some of those essential services are/were when they were publicly owner.

Even if I take what is written as correct - is it cheaper for the consumer if they have to wait 6 months?

And I refer to my previous point - Lots of big companies have an awful lot of useless jobs - I mean, I've worked with Marketing people.... (I jest...)

In terms of Essential Services - I've noticed that a lot of the 'much cheaper' is usually a function of when the physical assets were built and the cost to maintain.

a 5 year old Hospital is much cheaper to maintain than a 50 year old hospital.

The Government builds a new asset, and the maintenance is 'cheap', then it gets sold to a private entity (who perhaps skimps on the maintenance a bit) and with the ravages of time, the costs increase. Not to mention that a Private entity has to build in the cost of Litigation into their pricing structure, something a Government does not.

But let's remind ourselves of this old Gem:

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1986-07-30-vw-18804-story.html

Now, I know occassionally in private businesses, Corrupt individuals cheat the system and skim a little for themselves - do you know any corporate entity that would tolerate a $400 Hammer in 1986 prices?

[TheDemonLord]

Even if it is (and I grant you that it might be, if a comparison with the very limited dealings I have with the bureaucracy here is valid) my point is and was that Fucknuckle Code Brown (and now I have seen those hands and that $500 worth of Thai dentistry, I cant fucking unsee it) the point is that his role is a governance role. the council is a board of directors: it sets policy and goals. Want to cut costs? task the CEO (the sole employee, remember) with cost reduction. Want to target those cost cuts? Again: the new policy is that XYZ is not core local gubblemunt business: sell it off or downsize it or lose it all together: Strategic directive issued to CEO, who fucking sorts it out if he wants his contract renewed.

Browns conduct is exactly that of a board director going down the shop floor, and firing someone on a whim. Probably would have gotten away with it in the 50's and 60's. Not now. All it is is a fucking gift to the employment lawyer who takes it who immediately starts thinking about how big a boat this will buy. Fucking stupid all round. Like I said: 1 out of 20.

See, I have a different view - I've seen in some organizations (both first hand and from a 3rd party perspective) - that the CEO says we are going to do X.

And then a bunch of middle-management completely ignore this and go about business as usual.

Rightly or wrongly (and I'm surprised a Lawyer isn't salivating at the notion of nice fat wrongful dismissal suit) - sometimes the CEO needs to come the shop floor and make sure what they have asked to be done, is actually being done.

For the record, I have very little dog in this fight - I don't know Mr Brown, nor do I much care, I've stated that I stand by my initial assessment that he's both probably a Cunt and definitely a Cunt.

My only point is that this sort of largess is rife, I don't mind it so much in big companies, because I can take my business elsewhere, but when it comes to Governments paying for all sorts of nonsense jobs (and especially nonsense Activist jobs) - that's paid for out of my Tax Dollars - that could be going to something more productive.

I could help a dozen low income families for the cost of one DIE consultant/

[pritch]

Rightly or wrongly (and I'm surprised a Lawyer isn't salivating at the notion of nice fat wrongful dismissal suit) - sometimes the CEO needs to come the shop floor and make sure what they have asked to be done, is actually being done.


Brown is not the CEO, he's the equivalent of a chairman of the board. His primary reponsibilities are policy and finance, neither of which will be directly influenced by anybody on the factory floor.

As for privatised services being cheaper I will offer electricity. I still recall the lying prick of a minister standing there announcing that selling off the assets that we owned would make electricity cheaper. Never mind that whoever bought the assets needs to borrow the money, so they'll be paying interest which puts the price up. Then the shareholders wasn't to be paid so that puts the price up again. Previously the resources were managed strategically so that we didn't run out of power. Now they don't care about that, they just use whichever resource is cheaper so as to maximise profit. It doesn't matter if the southern lakes get drained, they'll just claim it's a one in twenty year drought and put the price up again.

[pete376403]

On the privatisation topic. Water has been privatised in UK. Currently it is cheaper for the water companies to dump raw sewage into the english channel and pay fines and spread the difference over the shareholders, than it is to fix the sewage systems, despite the government regulators insisting they are 'coming down very hard" on the offenders. NACT will soon be insisting that privatisation of water will be the only way that Aucklands water problems can be resolved, which is why they are campaigning so hard (on behalf of the their wealthy backers) against Three Waters.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/31/sewage-released-into-english-rivers-for-27m-hours-last-year-by-water-firms (Yes, TDL, it's from the Guardian, but the numbers are what matters)

[pete376403]

Brown is not the CEO, he's the equivalent of a chairman of the board. His primary reponsibilities are policy and finance, neither of which will be directly influenced by anybody on the factory floor.

As for privatised services being cheaper I will offer electricity. I still recall the lying prick of a minister standing there announcing that selling off the assets that we owned would make electricity cheaper. Never mind that whoever bought the assets needs to borrow the money, so they'll be paying interest which puts the price up. Then the shareholders wasn't to be paid so that puts the price up again. Previously the resources were managed strategically so that we didn't run out of power. Now they don't care about that, they just use whichever resource is cheaper so as to maximise profit. It doesn't matter if the southern lakes get drained, they'll just claim it's a one in twenty year drought and put the price up again.

https://u3awellingtoncity.org.nz/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Electricity-Pricing-Bertram-310519.pdf

[TheDemonLord]

Brown is not the CEO, he's the equivalent of a chairman of the board. His primary reponsibilities are policy and finance, neither of which will be directly influenced by anybody on the factory floor.

I think wasting ratepayers money falls firmly under Policy and Finance



As for privatised services being cheaper I will offer electricity. I still recall the lying prick of a minister standing there announcing that selling off the assets that we owned would make electricity cheaper. Never mind that whoever bought the assets needs to borrow the money, so they'll be paying interest which puts the price up. Then the shareholders wasn't to be paid so that puts the price up again. Previously the resources were managed strategically so that we didn't run out of power. Now they don't care about that, they just use whichever resource is cheaper so as to maximise profit. It doesn't matter if the southern lakes get drained, they'll just claim it's a one in twenty year drought and put the price up again.

Now, before I talk about this - There is a case to be made that Electricity is a natural monopoly - the main issue that would drive price up or down is the generation of Electricity - and that is something that represents a large-scale project.

So, after reading through the document provided by pete376403 - there were 3 things that jumped out at me:

1: It doesn't really talk about Power Generation - there is literally one line in it - where it correctly points out that you can't really have competing Generators of Electricity that can be bid on. I'll expand on this in a moment

2: It doesn't reference that since the 1980s the prevalence of Electronic devices in the Private home has significantly increased - You'll note from the graphs they provided that Commercial costs decreased (More efficient commercial power usage) and Industrial stayed about the same, with a slight decrease - but Residential has gone right up - think of all the electrical devices that have come into our homes since the 80s - Computers, Air Conditioning, Devices of every shape and flavor - The residential house of today has significantly more draw required than the house of the 80s.

3: Migration and increased population - More People, More Power - simple as.

But getting back to Generation for a moment - I had a look from Wikipedia about Power Generation in NZ - I see a lot of new power stations being built in the 70s and 80s, and lots of 'green energy' generation being built from the 2000s onwards.

What we have seen in Europe when we compare France and Germany is that France (who kept their Nuclear power generation) has done a lot better than Germany that opted for the 'green' route. Green electricity generation has it's own set of unique problems - and one of them (excluding Geothermal) is that it isn't reliable - No wind or no Sun? No power.

The paper asserts that all of these increases of costs are due to the evil shareholders rubbing their hands with glee, whilst trying to screw over the...

Wait a minute... I've heard this before...

Let me check...

Oh...


Depends on your view of Government
• Marx: “committee of the bourgeoisie”

Ah, that explains it.

And for bonus points - they are doing the ol' Social Democrat Switcheroo.

Now - all of this isn't to say that the example you give doesn't have some valid points - as I've acknowledged, I think power generation is a natural monopoly, you cannot have multiple competing generator plants that sell to a bidder to keep prices down - it simply doesn't work. So from that view - there's a point at which I agree that privatization of the Electrical grid is somewhat of a fools errand - I say somewhat because there are other improvements - such as the time it takes to get a house connected.

However, it's also to say that there are other factors which weigh more heavily on the cost of power - those being our attempt to transition to renewable energy sources that are not as reliable as non-renewable sources, the increase in our population and the increase in demand for power.

[TheDemonLord]

On the privatisation topic. Water has been privatised in UK. Currently it is cheaper for the water companies to dump raw sewage into the english channel and pay fines and spread the difference over the shareholders, than it is to fix the sewage systems, despite the government regulators insisting they are 'coming down very hard" on the offenders. NACT will soon be insisting that privatisation of water will be the only way that Aucklands water problems can be resolved, which is why they are campaigning so hard (on behalf of the their wealthy backers) against Three Waters.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/mar/31/sewage-released-into-english-rivers-for-27m-hours-last-year-by-water-firms (Yes, TDL, it's from the Guardian, but the numbers are what matters)

Yes, it is the Guardian - and on the balance of probability, they are lying through their teeth.

However - here's a question that I did not see addressed anywhere in the article:

What are the compliance costs to fix the Sewage Systems?

Take London for example - Joseph Bazalgette did an extraordinary job of creating the London Sewage system... In Victorian England. Now, it's a seriously impressive bit of work (and if you haven't there are some excellent documentaries about him and his work. He didn't have to worry about NIMBYs and Council by-laws, Health and Safety, Planning Permission etc. etc.

He had the sort of power to get shit done that people like me would wholesale object to - but none-the-less - my point being that we have created a rod for our own backs - we have made the cost of fixing the actual problem prohibitively expensive, so that it is cheaper to pay the fine, then we complain as to why it's all so expensive.

[pritch]

I think wasting ratepayers money falls firmly under Policy and Finance



Now, before I talk about this - There is a case to be made that Electricity is a natural monopoly - the main issue that would drive price up or down is the generation of Electricity - and that is something that represents a large-scale project.

So, after reading through the document provided by pete376403 - there were 3 things that jumped out at me:

1: It doesn't really talk about Power Generation - there is literally one line in it - where it correctly points out that you can't really have competing Generators of Electricity that can be bid on. I'll expand on this in a moment

2: It doesn't reference that since the 1980s the prevalence of Electronic devices in the Private home has significantly increased - You'll note from the graphs they provided that Commercial costs decreased (More efficient commercial power usage) and Industrial stayed about the same, with a slight decrease - but Residential has gone right up - think of all the electrical devices that have come into our homes since the 80s - Computers, Air Conditioning, Devices of every shape and flavor - The residential house of today has significantly more draw required than the house of the 80s.

3: Migration and increased population - More People, More Power - simple as.

But getting back to Generation for a moment - I had a look from Wikipedia about Power Generation in NZ - I see a lot of new power stations being built in the 70s and 80s, and lots of 'green energy' generation being built from the 2000s onwards.

What we have seen in Europe when we compare France and Germany is that France (who kept their Nuclear power generation) has done a lot better than Germany that opted for the 'green' route. Green electricity generation has it's own set of unique problems - and one of them (excluding Geothermal) is that it isn't reliable - No wind or no Sun? No power.

The paper asserts that all of these increases of costs are due to the evil shareholders rubbing their hands with glee, whilst trying to screw over the...

Wait a minute... I've heard this before...

Let me check...

Oh...



Ah, that explains it.

And for bonus points - they are doing the ol' Social Democrat Switcheroo.

Now - all of this isn't to say that the example you give doesn't have some valid points - as I've acknowledged, I think power generation is a natural monopoly, you cannot have multiple competing generator plants that sell to a bidder to keep prices down - it simply doesn't work. So from that view - there's a point at which I agree that privatization of the Electrical grid is somewhat of a fools errand - I say somewhat because there are other improvements - such as the time it takes to get a house connected.

However, it's also to say that there are other factors which weigh more heavily on the cost of power - those being our attempt to transition to renewable energy sources that are not as reliable as non-renewable sources, the increase in our population and the increase in demand for power.


Blah blah blah. None so blind... You claim an IQ of 130 but you have long consistently operated at marginally above half that. Sorry, I'm just tired of your intentional idiocy.

[F5 Dave]

Does he? Well he's obviously smarter than I am..

unless of course he is deluded and he's actually a sad pom.

Sad sad English halfwit.

Wah wah wah. But I wanted to he important. Afterall look at my skin isnt that enough?

He's on ignore as he's a complete turkey. Geez after the pastings Sugi has given him you'd think he'd learn not to put his fat head above the parapet where it was an easy target.

[1/32 man]

In defence of TDL he does use big words and lots of them.
He is capable of writing a fine argument and can make good points on things....the problem for me is I cannot be bothered reading long replies.

It wouldnt surprise me if TDL was a Russian troll or a bot or maybe a politician working under cover.

[TheDemonLord]

Blah blah blah. None so blind... You claim an IQ of 130 but you have long consstently operated at marginally above half that. Sorry, I'm just tired of your intentional idiocy.

Okay then Pritch - here's the simple version:

Increase in average usage per-household = move the demand curve to the right
Increase in the number of households = move the demand curve to the right

Without an equal increase in supply, this means price goes up. Simple supply and demand curves. Not evil shareholders, just basic economics.

There's some other things of interest - look at where we get our power from over time, In the 70s it was mostly all hydro - if we look at the generation in the mid 90s, there's a big spike in Hydro power generation and there's a corresponding dip in average price.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clyde_Dam

Oh look, 400 MW generation capacity, Commissioned in 1992, but filling the dam took a whole year.

There's been no signigicant hydro dam built (e.g. over 10 MW of generation) since.

The biggest factor in the increase in price is not evil shareholders. It's a failure to build large, efficient power stations.

[TheDemonLord]

In defence of TDL he does use big words and lots of them.
He is capable of writing a fine argument and can make good points on things....the problem for me is I cannot be bothered reading long replies.

It wouldnt surprise me if TDL was a Russian troll or a bot or maybe a politician working under cover.

Da Tovarisch! Nyet! Nyet! Vodka!

Well, I am completely fluent in Russian.... but no, not a Russian Troll, definitely not a Bot and whilst I'm fine with insults, calling me a politician is a bit below the belt.

[TheDemonLord]

Does he? Well he's obviously smarter than I am..

unless of course he is deluded and he's actually a sad pom.

Sad sad English halfwit.

Wah wah wah. But I wanted to he important. Afterall look at my skin isnt that enough?

He's on ignore as he's a complete turkey. Geez after the pastings Sugi has given him you'd think he'd learn not to put his fat head above the parapet where it was an easy target.

And yet, in time, I've been vindicated on many of the points that have been raised against me. Now, I've said on multiple occassions, I like Sugi and I think he makes good points, he has well written and thought out views - I happen to disagree with some of them - but of late, the difference between Me and Sugi isn't as big as you think.

And I again make the comment - for someone who says they have me on Ignore, you sure do like to mention me directly or indirectly.

[neels]

Increase in average usage per-household = move the demand curve to the right
Increase in the number of households = move the demand curve to the right

Without an equal increase in supply, this means price goes up. Simple supply and demand curves. Not evil shareholders, just basic economics.
Incorrect.

When the power industry was dismantled and privatised, prices went up immediately. Overnight. No change in demand.

Where I lived at the time the local power authority/retailer also had generation, and was a trust owned by it's customers. After the 'reforms' that structure wasn't allowed any more, so power bills almost doubled immediately, and the trust dividend every year of January and some of February power bill being free disappeared.

It's seems pretty obvious that adding a bunch more boards, management structures, corporate overheads and shareholder dividends to the cost of selling the same commodity you already had is going to make it more expensive.

[pritch]

Incorrect.

When the power industry was dismantled and privatised, prices went up immediately. Overnight. No change in demand.

Where I lived at the time the local power authority/retailer also had generation, and was a trust owned by it's customers. After the 'reforms' that structure wasn't allowed any more, so power bills almost doubled immediately, and the trust dividend every year of January and some of February power bill being free disappeared.

It's seems pretty obvious that adding a bunch more boards, management structures, corporate overheads and shareholder dividends to the cost of selling the same commodity you already had is going to make it more expensive.

And they immediately upped the supply charge as a proportion of the bill so you'd still have a largish bill even if you were making efforts to minimise energy use.

[F5 Dave]

Were not in the business of being in business I believe some govt twat stated.

I mean it was all sadly predictable and played out exactly as youd expect. Public gets screwed.

[Laava]

Afterall look at my skin isnt that enough?
.
It is very thick tho. Skin I mean. But yes, most of us have him on ignore…

[TheDemonLord]

Incorrect.

When the power industry was dismantled and privatised, prices went up immediately. Overnight. No change in demand.

Well.... I'm using the website posted by pete376403 as a reference here - even though it's got tainted by it's Marxist leanings - it shows a different picture - a steady increase of prices starting from the lowpoint of 1983 onwards. Some of the biggest capacity Hydro stations came online in the late 70s early 80s - Ohau for example. Huntly also came online in the early 80s.

After that, the price started to rise pretty constantly and that price rise preceeds the beginning of the restructuring.


Where I lived at the time the local power authority/retailer also had generation, and was a trust owned by it's customers. After the 'reforms' that structure wasn't allowed any more, so power bills almost doubled immediately, and the trust dividend every year of January and some of February power bill being free disappeared.

None of which I'm going to dispute - I'm talking about the national averages here - I can't comment on a specific situation.


It's seems pretty obvious that adding a bunch more boards, management structures, corporate overheads and shareholder dividends to the cost of selling the same commodity you already had is going to make it more expensive.

Which is the larger Board and Management structure? A Company or the Government?

[pete376403]

TDL, I believe you have some expertise in database manipulation, so that should make it relatively easy for you to get the appropriate numbers from a reputable source, eg NZ Govt Stats, and put together a chart showing us all how much better off we are as a result of the electricity reforms

[F5 Dave]

He can barely manipulate his penis. Besides, he clearly has no interest in seeking the truth. It's much quicker to spout nonsense whilst convincing yourself that you know better than everyone else including so called 'experts' who are probably on the payroll of the lizard people

[TheDemonLord]

TDL, I believe you have some expertise in database manipulation, so that should make it relatively easy for you to get the appropriate numbers from a reputable source, eg NZ Govt Stats, and put together a chart showing us all how much better off we are as a result of the electricity reforms

Are you saying the source that you posted isn't reputable? Because that's the majority of what I've been quoting, along with a few bits and pieces from Wikipedia.

Again, for those that miss it, I've said repeatedly that Energy generation represents a natural monopoly and without the ability to switch providers (which includes everything from Energy Generation, substations, cabling and the last mile) - you can't really have 'true' competition.

The point I'm making is that there are 3 factors that show a far greater impact on the price than 'evil corporate shareholders'

They are:

1: since about the 80s, the number of electronic devices in the average home has increased dramatically - I don't have the NZ stats for this, but there are stats from the US, UK etc. from this time period if you really doubt it - but all you have to do is do a thought experiment - my Grandparents had a TV, a Radio, Lights, a Fridge and that's it. They had a Gas stove/oven and a coal fire.

Today, I've got a TV, I've got multiple laptops, Phones, Tablets, a Gaming PC, Vacuum, Power tools, Fridge, separate freezer (going up the ruahines for my first hunt in April!) etc. etc.

I will add this though, since about the late 2010s, the average has started to level off a little - as devices get more efficient.

2: Electricity generation has moved from almost exclusively hyrdo (which doesn't have a fuel cost) in the 70s, to a combination of Hydro and Gas being the most prominent and a switch to (starting in the 2000s) renewables.

When we see big Hyrdo plants come online (such as the Clutha damn - 400+ MW) in 1993, we see a dip in the consumer price of Electricity. Simple economics - we've increased the Supply (shifted the supply curve to the right), therefore we have decreased the price if the demand curve remains the same.

Since the Clutha Damn, we've not built any Hydro power stations of any great significance (over 10 MW)

3: Immigration - Population increases at a rate greater than natural Births, that's more people who will want Electricity = greater demand. I'm firmly in this category, I came here - I plugged in all my devices etc. More load on the system that wasn't there the day before I landed.

Add in a pinch of 'What has greater levels of bureaucracy - the Government or a private company?' - and that is all I'm saying.

I am not advocating for Privatization or Nationalization in this instance.

[F5 Dave]

I can't read that. So I'll paraphrase for the othereswho have him on ignore, dont bother;

Waa waa, I'm an ineffectual male. I'd like you to think I'm clever Because that would make up for my small winky. If I lost some weight I'd be able to see it without a mirror.

[TheDemonLord]

I can't read that. So I'll paraphrase for the othereswho have him on ignore, dont bother;

Waa waa, I'm an ineffectual male. I'd like you to think I'm clever Because that would make up for my small winky. If I lost some weight I'd be able to see it without a mirror.

Now, putting aside the fact that this is the classic Ad-Hominem - this gives me an opportunity to gloat - see I have been loosing weight, I recently dropped under 100 kilos for the first time in a decade.

My recent PB was a 9.5 km run in an hour.

So thanks for the insult, it's both a chance to prove you wrong and to share progress.

[onearmedbandit]

Now, putting aside the fact that this is the classic Ad-Hominem - this gives me an opportunity to gloat - see I have been loosing weight, I recently dropped under 100 kilos for the first time in a decade.

My recent PB was a 9.5 km run in an hour.

So thanks for the insult, it's both a chance to prove you wrong and to share progress.

Great work!!

[caseye]

Yep, I second that commend, anyone who can and does deserves a little bit of congratulatory peaise, you keep at it DML.:banana:

[1/32 man]

........ drifting back to Code Brown...he apologised.

[pete376403]

........ drifting back to Code Brown...he apologised.

Apologies are cheap. and achieve nothing.

[1/32 man]

Agree, pete376403

A mate often quotes, 'it is easier to apologise than ask permission" although that doesn't really apply here.

Words are cheap for some and even cheaper for politicians.

[FJRider]

Now, putting aside the fact that this is the classic Ad-Hominem - this gives me an opportunity to gloat - see I have been loosing weight, I recently dropped under 100 kilos for the first time in a decade.

My recent PB was a 9.5 km run in an hour.

So thanks for the insult, it's both a chance to prove you wrong and to share progress.

Remember one thing ... as you get fitter ... your fat gets replaced by muscle. Muscle weighs almost as much as fat.

Losing weight depends just as much (IF NOT MORE) on your diet ... than exercise alone. Otherwise you'll JUST end up a fit fatty.

[BMWST?]

Yep. I was just about to post “what has he done that’s bad?” I saw a news article saying something along the lined of only he would be talking about council response etc but that’s no different to “ the single source of truth”.
The platform did a good piece on this, the media are just trying to find a target. But this flooding mess is just decades of under investment couple with recent mega intensification of dense housing.
I think the media doesn’t like him as he just talks normal, he doesn’t give them the crafted political sound bites they love.

plus a shed load of rain which cannot be pinned on said Mr Brown.

[TheDemonLord]

Remember one thing ... as you get fitter ... your fat gets replaced by muscle. Muscle weighs almost as much as fat.

Losing weight depends just as much (IF NOT MORE) on your diet ... than exercise alone. Otherwise you'll JUST end up a fit fatty.

Hence why I've been using a Calorie tracker app ;)

[R650R]

That weedy little interviewer tried to do hit job on Brown in latest one q&a inteerview.
Brown did pretty well given the hostile climate whatever his other failings are.
In associated news a solo mother wants Winz to act as household insurance because they gave her a new house in a flood prone area, unbelievable....

[frogfeaturesFZR]

That weedy little interviewer tried to do hit job on Brown in latest one q&a inteerview.
Brown did pretty well given the hostile climate whatever his other failings are.
In associated news a solo mother wants Winz to act as household insurance because they gave her a new house in a flood prone area, unbelievable....

WINZ didn’t give her a house, that’s Kianga Ora
They will have funded her into it though.
So, if she’s got a beef, it’s with KO.
Anyway, some people want support from the womb to the tomb, personal responsibility appears to have died.

[husaberg]

I am confused by the premise of the thread, The guy by all counts is a abhorrent tool.
What better representation of Auckland could you ever ask for.
https://comb.io/BUTHHo.gif

[Grumph]

One of those very rare times when a city has got the mayor it deserves.

Reminds me of the time of the ChCh quakes. One mayor of the three areas affected by the quakes was visible and accessible. The other two - Selwyn and Waimakariri - might as well have been overseas. Brown's not setting a precedent - he's following the examples of two mayors found wanting in a crisis.

[R650R]

Who’d have ever thought that under utilisation of rubbish bins was a thing

https://i.stuff.co.nz/auckland/301037890/auckland-council-removing-thousands-of-rubbish-bins-from-public-spaces

This has to rank as one of the dumbest cost saving ideas. I’ve done the maths and each bin they are taking away is costing them $340 a year at supplied numbers. Really it’s no saving as you prob still need same amount of Wombles to do the rounds emptying the other bins which will be nearby.
Auckland.
$9.5 million of eight years is a massive saving to each ratepayer (est 800,000 out of 1.6m pop) of one dollar and 47 cents per year..,,