My tyres are weird - whats going on?

[HenryDorsetCase]

OK, so I did a trackday at Ruapuna a wee while ago (6 Oct). Bike went well but I wasnt feeling comfortable with the tyres all day. The morning was cold, and it got warmer as the day progressed. It was a really nice day. I started off with 30F and 30R cold and adjusted after each session. Got down to 27F cold (31 hot) and 28R (32 hot) during the day. I had a couple of weird rear wheel slides in the afternoon.

Check out these pictures. The middle to midlean of the tyres is nice and clean, slightly roughed up, and dull in appearance. Thats what I would expect. The "full lean" part of the tyre is black, shiny, and feels kind of sort of greasy.

Any thoughts as to why they aren't like the middle all the way round?

Obviously this is a street bike but still - thats all I have ever used on trackdays. My bestest tyres ever were the Dunlop Alpha 10s on the VFR400.

Also I am a terrible rider.

Metzeler Roadtec Z8's - new last year. Date codes 0721.

Anyway I am throwing it open to the ideas group.

[Jantar]

Not having had any experience with those particular tyres, my thoughts are slightly under inflated allowing the tyre to flex and get too hot.

[pzkpfw]

I'm dumber than rocks, but remember that the stock tyres on my bike were dual compound.

Harder in the centre to last longer on basic straight ahead movement, softer away from the centre for more grip when it's needed.

(I do remember that after a while they looked a bit weird to me, with the wear uneven across the width.)

A quick google didn't indicate that for these tyres, but seems possible?

[Grumph]

The wear pattern is about what I'd expect. Triumph is it ?
Ruapuna surface doesn't warm up till february. Ground water level is such that it's a cold surface even on a warm spring day.
Dropping cold pressure to get heat into the carcase only works to a limited extent with road tyres.

If you do another track day late summer on those tyres, I'd pick you'll be a lot happier with the grip levels.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The wear pattern is about what I'd expect. Triumph is it ?
Ruapuna surface doesn't warm up till february. Ground water level is such that it's a cold surface even on a warm spring day.
Dropping cold pressure to get heat into the carcase only works to a limited extent with road tyres.

If you do another track day late summer on those tyres, I'd pick you'll be a lot happier with the grip levels.

interesting - thank you for that. Now I think about that, the trackdays I have done in the past have tended to be Feb-Mar-April rather than October. I dont do the preseason Have a Go day that MCC put on because the one time I did it was freeezing cold and I havent cared to repeat it.

The bike is yet another naked middleweight - I have two functionally equivalent bikes - the Triumph Street Triple I have had for 10 years, and this is a 2014 Ducati Monster 1100. Aircooled, maybe 100hp at the crank, light and good handling.

The Triumph is better handling but I am putting that down to the suspension which has been upgraded by experts (and adjusted by a muppet).

Next time I am going to try and take one of those barbecue laser zapper thermometers to measure tyre temperature at the end of a session. I reckon that will be better than the old "how warm is it to the touch, and what pressure is in there" test.

Thanks.

[Hoonicorn]

It can take a while to adjust to new tires. Not knowing the track temp I'd have picked your front pressure was to low compared with rear, might have tried 30f and 25r to get more grip on the rear.
I'd assume in summer your using something like 28f and 22r.

And as said below, adjust the pace to the conditions.

[F5 Dave]

Slow down Rossi!


That said, I've crashed at Ruapuna by being offline trying to get around some whippersnapper for 3rd. When I got back to the pits I still had snow on my leathers.

[Kickaha]

Slow down Rossi!


That said, I've crashed at Ruapuna by being offline trying to get around some whippersnapper for 3rd. When I got back to the pits I still had snow on my leathers.

Ah yes, beaten by a GN once again, didn't you get run over as well ?

[F5 Dave]

Andy ran me over when I was riding the evil Joe the day before I think. No stinkin GN beat me. Ahead of me were Brendan and two CBRs with young versions of kids that got a damn sight faster with every return visit.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Andy ran me over when I was riding the evil Joe the day before I think. No stinkin GN beat me. Ahead of me were Brendan and two CBRs with young versions of kids that got a damn sight faster with every return visit.

The coolest bike at the trackday was a Husky Vitpilen 701. It had extensive work on the running gear and an Aprilia RS250 fairing, slicks. Really nicely done. They had sone some work to the motor and were using it as a test day. It was really quick through the infield but a bit less quick on the straights. Sounded cool too. Anyway, you should get one and employ me to ride it.

[Moise]

The Z8 has variable tension in the steel belt, reducing from the centre towards the edges. That might allow more movement of the tread at high lean angles?

https://www.forbesanddavies.co.nz/products/view/metzeler-roadtec-z8-interact-sport-touring/

I did a tour in Oz on a BMW with those tyres. I had a couple of small slides from the rear, definitely not one of my favourite tyres.

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[husaberg]

The coolest bike at the trackday was a Husky Vitpilen 701. It had extensive work on the running gear and an Aprilia RS250 fairing, slicks. Really nicely done. They had sone some work to the motor and were using it as a test day. It was really quick through the infield but a bit less quick on the straights. Sounded cool too. Anyway, you should get one and employ me to ride it.

The Husky Vitpilen 701 would have to be one of the ugliest std bikes ever made.:laugh:
My son races a 450Sm Yama YZ450F in the SM class and a dude has a 701 they both do 210 ish at the end of the straight at Ruapuna according to his husky speedo.
The 450's are far quicker through the infield though .
I have experienced weird shit with race tires at Ruapuna it seems to cold tear out the mid of the slicks even with warmers on seemingly warm days creating u shaped grooves.
I have spoken to Grumph about it it seems to be a Ruapuna thing. i think the answer is to do more meetings at levels as it a far more fun track on a lower HP bike and doesn't do weird shit with the tires.
Stop fafing about Get yourself A SM henry

[R650R]

Not having had any experience with those particular tyres, my thoughts are slightly under inflated allowing the tyre to flex and get too hot.

Plus one on this.

What are manufacturer recommended pressures Henry? Tyre tech has moved on for road tyres these days and I’ve been surprised myself at the higher recommended pressures. But according to people whose skill I respect that’s where they should be.
Think about it, you take same bike out on public road with likely less grip but at a track day we all decide to go ghetto and run low pressures???

[Grumph]

I have spoken to Grumph about it it seems to be a Ruapuna thing. i think the answer s to do more meetings at levels as it a far more fun track on a lower HP bike and doesn't do weird shit with the tires.
Stop fafing about Get yourself A SM henry

The last year we had a stinking hot spring and low groundwater levels at the same time, Steve Ward set a 125 lap time at the GP which i think has never been beaten. Arguably the 125's are the most tyre sensitive race class.

OTOH, Levels in midsummer drought conditions goes oily. It was not a very grippy surface when first laid and gets worse when it's very hot.

[HenryDorsetCase]

Bugger me. OK so like most blokes I have read the instructions AFTER I should have:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/06/14/2012metzeler-z8-interact-tires-review/#:~:text=Metzeler's%20recommended%20tire%20pressur es%20at,we%20are%20glad%20we%20listened.

38F 40R !!

[roogazza]

Bugger me. OK so like most blokes I have read the instructions AFTER I should have:

https://ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012/06/14/2012metzeler-z8-interact-tires-review/#:~:text=Metzeler's%20recommended%20tire%20pressur es%20at,we%20are%20glad%20we%20listened.

38F 40R !!

Yes ! I'm pleasantly surprised to be getting 13,000km (so far ) on "Michelin Road" rubber ! front is starting to wear weirdly so is due.
But since owning the gsx1400 I've been using 38f 41R for pressures.
A nice change to changing rubber every 5,000 kms for years while using Sport type tyres. :mellow:

[F5 Dave]

That's for the road, track will heat them much more, but maybe higher than you were would be good to try. And/or more track oriented rubber.

[Stylo]

That's for the road, track will heat them much more, but maybe higher than you were would be good to try. And/or more track oriented rubber.

I'd just fitted a pair of Z8's to my Gen 2 'Busa before I sold it a few months ago. No track time but they seemed ok on the road. As they should.

[husaberg]

i remember reading something years ago that car tyres wear faster in the rain.

Also all the motards ran wets on the front at very dry and sunny GMSR, with no evident wear at all.
I was a bit dubious initially, but no issues.

[pete376403]

i remember reading something years ago that car tyres wear faster in the rain.

I'd agree with that. Try cutting an old inner tube with a dry knife, then wet the knife and try it again.

[Moise]

Yes ! I'm pleasantly surprised to be getting 13,000km (so far ) on "Michelin Road" rubber ! front is starting to wear weirdly so is due.
But since owning the gsx1400 I've been using 38f 41R for pressures.
A nice change to changing rubber every 5,000 kms for years while using Sport type tyres. :mellow:Yes, I get similar mileage on the R1 with Road 5 tyres. The right shoulder on the front looked a bit weird after a similar mileage, but it still handled OK.

I've heard the Road 6 wears more evenly, as it has 100% silica compounds. The 5 has nice, sticky carbon black on the shoulders.

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[neels]

Yes ! I'm pleasantly surprised to be getting 13,000km (so far ) on "Michelin Road" rubber ! front is starting to wear weirdly so is due.


I've still got an older michelin road front, has worn a bit oddly off centre and sort of ramped the tread blocks. I've seen the same tyre on other bikes looking the same, so might just be what they do.

Now I'm wondering if there's a difference between the pressure specified by the manufacturer and what's in the owners manual for the bike.

[jellywrestler]

they do.

Now I'm wondering if there's a difference between the pressure specified by the manufacturer and what's in the owners manual for the bike.

how would the people who print the owners manual know all the tyre manufacturers specs prior to printing?

[roogazza]

Yes, I get similar mileage on the R1 with Road 5 tyres. The right shoulder on the front looked a bit weird after a similar mileage, but it still handled OK.

I've heard the Road 6 wears more evenly, as it has 100% silica compounds. The 5 has nice, sticky carbon black on the shoulders.

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Yeah bud, the front Road 5 only started to show weird wear after 10,000 on the right side.
Was looking at tyres today in Palmy , Road 6 for the front is $350 !!! :eek5:

[R650R]

Yeah bud, the front Road 5 only started to show weird wear after 10,000 on the right side.
Was looking at tyres today in Palmy , Road 6 for the front is $350 !!! :eek5:

Michelins usually often have great specials but for a front and rear pair.

[R650R]

Wow this subject is a rabbit hole across all forums if you Google.
Think bike manufacturer specs are way to go as start point given they usually work with a specific oem tyre on new bike. It seems tyres them selves along with safest max pressure also have a safe owest pressure but no actual recommended as they don’t know what you’re using it on.

Closest anyone comes to making sense is Dave moss tuning..,, interestingly he mentions your pressure is right for track if you gain another two psi after session which is a rule of thumb I was told 20 years ago and seemed to work at track days.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LN8qjljOoE&pp=ygUXVHlyZSBwcmVzc3VyZSBkYXZlIG1vc3M%3D

[Moise]

Yeah bud, the front Road 5 only started to show weird wear after 10,000 on the right side.
Was looking at tyres today in Palmy , Road 6 for the front is $350 !!! :eek5:Boyd's in Hamilton has the front Road 6 for $239.

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[roogazza]

Boyd's in Hamilton has the front Road 6 for $239.

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I'd better sniff around then , thats a great price ta !! :2thumbsup

[roogazza]

Boyd's in Hamilton has the front Road 6 for $239.

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Just a follow up after Moise showed me a price at Boyd's . Had a busy couple of weeks ,then the wifes mate in Taupo bailed off her horse so had to nip up there as well.
Shopped around and the Honda shop here in Levin price matched Boyd's which I appreciated.
The bike has been sitting on its lovely looking Michelin Road 6's but I haven't had the chance of a fang.

Now when this wet stuff stops next week I'll be out there. :banana::niceone::niceone:

[Moise]

Just a follow up after Moise showed me a price at Boyd's . Had a busy couple of weeks ,then the wifes mate in Taupo bailed off her horse so had to nip up there as well.
Shopped around and the Honda shop here in Levin price matched Boyd's which I appreciated.
The bike has been sitting on its lovely looking Michelin Road 6's but I haven't had the chance of a fang.

Now when this wet stuff stops next week I'll be out there. :banana::niceone::niceone:That's great, I'll be interested to hear what you think of them. We've had a couple of fine weekends up here recently and my Road 5s are looking more used now that the roads are dry and warmer.

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[sugilite]

I've only just seen this thread.
Those tyres look about right for their design type, and a cooler track. As for the edges looking different - I would guess because the forces and time spent on that part of the tyre will be different from the other more utilized areas. I've seen that look on the outside edge of many tyres, even the odd slick at track days etc.
Looks to me you had about the right pressures for those tyres on the track.
I've not got a lot of experience on street orientated tyres, but the one time I took a zx10r out at Taupo with similar spec tyres, I found them to have poor feedback and a greasy feeling when leaning right over. The tyre was spinning up quite a lot, and I was not too fond of the vague feedback. I put it down to more street orientated carcass, design and rubber.

[HenryDorsetCase]

I found them to have poor feedback and a greasy feeling when leaning right over. The tyre was spinning up quite a lot, and I was not too fond of the vague feedback. I put it down to more street orientated carcass, design and rubber.

Bingo. That was exactly what was happening. I am going to put tyres on my Street Triple before Xmas and I think I would get that type of tyre again but for road use. For a trackday a second set of wheels might be handy with more appropriate rubber.

[roogazza]

That's great, I'll be interested to hear what you think of them. We've had a couple of fine weekends up here recently and my Road 5s are looking more used now that the roads are dry and warmer.

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Cheers Moise, got out yesterday for my usual 170 kms lap to Pahiatua. Beaut fine day and warm.
(leathers are getting tight,do they shrink with age ??/ lol).
The bike had Mich road 4's on previous(I thought they were 5's !!) but anyway steered out the driveway and instantly noticed how light the 6's feel. So had to be a bit carefull. Most noticable flicking from one side to another. The Pahiatua Track is pretty rough with patching and surface types but the 6's were noticably better than the 4's.
Next ride I'll get some pace on , but I think they're gunna be great. :yes:

[F5 Dave]

Yeah Dusty told me, with a wry smile, that yes leathers do seem to shrink.

[pete376403]

Yeah Dusty told me, with a wry smile, that yes leathers do seem to shrink.

Is he still around? I got one of the first one piece suits he made when he was at Stokes Valley. It's still up in the attic after many seasons of speedway at Te Marua

[F5 Dave]

Haven't seen him for at least a year. Ah yes was altering Alpinestar pants that were baggy. But he's retired mostly. Still the same. Always grinning.

[sugilite]

Wow, dusty is still around!
I thought he was old when he made my first set of decent leathers erm 34 years ago! So I'm probs older now than he was then, so by my own definition I'm a golden oldie now :lol:
He made the best leathers at the time that's for sure. My very first set of race leathers were made by a outfit in Masterton called Jeffrey Chandels. They lasted a whole one low level crash at manfields first turn, then called "coke". Dusty's leader leathers lasted me MANY crashes :laugh:

https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=156869&d=1210861231

[roogazza]

Haven't seen him for at least a year. Ah yes was altering Alpinestar pants that were baggy. But he's retired mostly. Still the same. Always grinning.

We ring each other every month or so, been mates from Primary School years. He said he's pretty much retired.
Likes to go to Thailand in winter and had just done about 6 weeks there last time we chatted.
( missed him at our 'old racer reunion' a month ago in Eastbourne for that reason).

Lovely bloke. xx

[F5 Dave]

General rule was how much? Then pay what you thought it was actually worth. (x2 generally for repairs) . He lives next door to a mate so would often catch up with him then but haven't been up there of late, must do.

Still have a Riveria Jacket which was an offshoot from Leda, Scooter centre used to sell.
He extended it as it shrank from my teenage size. Later pressed into service for the wiff with jumpers etc.

I then got him to build a replica with body armour. Only replaced maybe 2 yrs back when I got air vest and leathers to match.

He was to inner stage with a new set of race leathers when I spanked myself up enough to retire. Poor old AGV leathers he had repaired and altered so many times they had patches on patches. Hard armour wore holes quicker than humans.

[roogazza]

Wow, dusty is still around!
I thought he was old when he made my first set of decent leathers erm 34 years ago! So I'm probs older now than he was then, so by my own definition I'm a golden oldie now :lol:
He made the best leathers at the time that's for sure. My very first set of race leathers were made by a outfit in Masterton called Jeffrey Chandels. They lasted a whole one low level crash at manfields first turn, then called "coke". Dusty's leader leathers lasted me MANY crashes :laugh:


Yes Dustmiester made great stuff. I came back from Aussie in 1997 and said to him make me some new leathers. He said ok if you paint my house !!!! hahaha so the deal was done ! I was waiting to get back in the Police ,so it all worked out great.
Man sugilite,you skinny bugger,half your luck ! 354042 Still using these Leda leathers today. Though as I said they've shunk a bit round the middle..... Hey I'm 74 !!! lol.

[sugilite]

Man sugilite,you skinny bugger,half your luck !
Errrmmmm, that photo was taken 35 years ago. Now I have to keep swatting moons away from wanting to orbit my belly :pinch:

[pete376403]

General rule was how much? Then pay what you thought it was actually worth.

When I first went for measuring the price was to be $100 but when I went to collect them I only had $99 (mostly notes but a lot of coins too) so he let it go at that. About 16 years worth of speedway dirt and crashes, one replacement zip and a number of left knee patches. Colours are still bright. They still fit.

Sorry for hijacking the tyre thread

[Moise]

Cheers Moise, got out yesterday for my usual 170 kms lap to Pahiatua. Beaut fine day and warm.
(leathers are getting tight,do they shrink with age ??/ lol).
The bike had Mich road 4's on previous(I thought they were 5's !!) but anyway steered out the driveway and instantly noticed how light the 6's feel. So had to be a bit carefull. Most noticable flicking from one side to another. The Pahiatua Track is pretty rough with patching and surface types but the 6's were noticably better than the 4's.
Next ride I'll get some pace on , but I think they're gunna be great. :yes:

I fitted the Road 5 after the 4, and nearly dropped the bike making the left turn from our drive onto the road! But the front is good once you get used to it and direction changes are easy. I still miss how stable the R1 felt on the 4's at high lean angles - the 195/55 rear had a more triangular profile that the 5 rear.

I think the 5 is the best sports tyre I've had on the R1, and they last about twice as long!

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[roogazza]

I fitted the Road 5 after the 4, and nearly dropped the bike making the left turn from our drive onto the road! But the front is good once you get used to it and direction changes are easy. I still miss how stable the R1 felt on the 4's at high lean angles - the 195/55 rear had a more triangular profile that the 5 rear.

I think the 5 is the best sports tyre I've had on the R1, and they last about twice as long!

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Yeah bud,can't wait to out again with the 6's.
Was thinking I don't know why I didn't try diff rubber on my 1000 as I used to go thru sport rubber like underwear every 4000kms !Had it for quite a few years until the old bod made it just too hardto keep. Love the 14 now though.354043

[roogazza]

Cheers Moise, got out again yesterday,so the Michelin R6s have done over 300kms now. I haven't tried 5's but I swear by these new ones.
Hopefully the mileage is as good or even better ?
The touchy front seems to have settled down a bit and feels great.... No moments to report although at one stage I saw north of 150 and thought, slow down Rossi !
Two corners later a couple of cars appeared oncoming ,the second with yellow and blue markings !!!!!!!! Here's me at 110kph !!! lucky ,lucky!

Still got 10mm chicken strips but thats pretty normal for this old fella.. :rolleyes:

[F5 Dave]

It's normal for the road.
I always have them but used to run off the edge of slicks on track. The road is a different environment if you want to stay riding.

[SaferRides]

Cheers Moise, got out again yesterday,so the Michelin R6s have done over 300kms now. I haven't tried 5's but I swear by these new ones.
Hopefully the mileage is as good or even better ?
The touchy front seems to have settled down a bit and feels great.... No moments to report although at one stage I saw north of 150 and thought, slow down Rossi !
Two corners later a couple of cars appeared oncoming ,the second with yellow and blue markings !!!!!!!! Here's me at 110kph !!! lucky ,lucky!

Still got 10mm chicken strips but thats pretty normal for this old fella.. :rolleyes:

I've just realised that Tapatalk soehow logged me in under my old forum name, which I thought no longer worked. I'm back to SaferRides.

The front Road 5 seems sensitive to pressure, and can feel twitchy at low speed if it's too high. I usually run around 34 on the R1, but that's quite a light bike.

You'd have to be brave to get to the edge of the Road 5 front!

The 4 and 5 did about the same mileage, but I've heard that the 6 is even better. It's nice to have tyres that last more than 6 months at today's prices.

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[roogazza]

I've just realised that Tapatalk soehow logged me in under my old forum name, which I thought no longer worked. I'm back to SaferRides.

The front Road 5 seems sensitive to pressure, and can feel twitchy at low speed if it's too high. I usually run around 34 on the R1, but that's quite a light bike.

You'd have to be brave to get to the edge of the Road 5 front!

The 4 and 5 did about the same mileage, but I've heard that the 6 is even better. It's nice to have tyres that last more than 6 months at today's prices.

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Yeah wondered about the name change lol. The front on the 1400 steers like a truck if the pressure is anything under 35 cold. Its big heavy beast but the good side is, with our shit roads, you can just throw it in and the suspension flaps away and handles it.

Agree on the wear rate of these touring tyres.... :banana: