Going from 1000cc to a learner bike? opinions please :) [Archive]

Addict

22nd January 2024, 19:55

Ladies and Gentlemen, been a long time since I have been on here, good to see the forum is still alive!

Wanted to get some opinions - the forums are the place to go these days.

I currently own a 2012 Aprilia Tuono but......it has dawned on me that the Tuono is much more bike than i can handle or use plus I don't ride it nearly as much as I should to warrant the money I paid for it (9k). So I am looking to change to a smaller CC bike.

I aim to sell or swap the bike for an older 600cc sports preferably a Daytona 675 or CBR600RR but end up with about 3k in my pocket after the trade, I have come to the conclusion - from extensive perusing on TradeMe and Facebook that the 600cc range seem to hold their value and I would be very lucky to get any cash from a trade to a 600 sports.

The next option is to go even further down the cc range into learner bike territory.
There is an offer on the table right now for a 3.5k trade for a 2020 KTM RC390.

Has anyone here been in a situation where they go from a 1000cc (170hp) bike to a 400ccish (44hp) bike?
Any comments on the transition?

When I do go out for a ride it is one of two types of ride - 30 minute highway into work or mild twisties for a couple of hours. Nothing super challenging or aggressive.

speedpro

22nd January 2024, 21:04

I see full throttle, max rev, thrashes in your future.

Gremlin

22nd January 2024, 21:07

I didn't realise how much of a torque snob I was until I rode a 390 (first small bike in a while). I thought the big bikes had OK torque. Uh no, they have a lot. Do the same on a 390 and be prepared to drop 2 gears on corner exit as there is no grunt (I rode a mates Duke 390). On the other hand, turn out of a street, ring it's neck through the first few gears (I had a shop CB250 single as a loaner) and you're still under 50kph. Try doing that on a Tuono :msn-wink:

Only you can really know, through test riding. eg, I knew I had to step off a ZX10R I had, tried riding a 690SM, nope, hated it. Ended up on a 990SM, which was still ridiculous, but in different ways, and at least took away ludicrous speed...

neels

22nd January 2024, 21:20

It's entertaining for a while riding a little bike after a big bike, then the novelty wears off.

I had a v-twin 250 for a while, after all it can't be that much different to a v-twin 900. It was, it's sold.

Middle ground of a 650 twin might be worth considering, the non LAMS ones tend to be a bit less spendy than the learner bikes.

pritch

23rd January 2024, 07:57

It would be interesting to know your age. A man of my acquaintance, and of considerable means, owned a succession of big bikes. Toward the end of his riding career he was perfectly happy with one of the Honda 500 twins.

One warning that I recall from a magazine road test of the Aprilia 125, but which still applies. You need to be careful overtaking as the smaller bikes take longer. Because of that, and the slower acceleration, there can be a temptation to risk dodgy overtakes rather than slow down and wait.

rastuscat

23rd January 2024, 15:01

I read recently that people have more fun getting 100% out of a smaller bike than 50% out of a bigger one.

Sounds sensible to me. In terms of LAMS bikes, the Triumph models look cool. I've also considered going to a Royal Enfield, but it's not that time yet.

The RE Continental looks cool, and people who own them love them. Probably confirmation bias.

F5 Dave

23rd January 2024, 16:31

I’ve done the first option to midsized . . .actually I had a thing for 50cc roadbikes for the best part of a decade even before that now I think about it. I went to the Cold Kiwi 6 times on a Tiddler when I had a perfectly good 1100 tourer in the garage. But it ceased to be fun when everyone eventually stopped riding small bikes in silly ways.
Anyhoo, lets look at why we ride and why. Often people buy over powered bikes & if you aren’t riding regularly they are a liability.
I was riding heaps but got sick of the weight so despite several bikes in garage, moved my biggest roadbike down in Capacity to a 675 Street triple. I found it was more fun to ride in a semi legal fashion on the road. With a small screen it was quite happy to tour as well. The good thing about them is as they are lighter than litre bikes & have a good spread of power, your acceleration is still quite respectable.
I did question whether I should have got the Daytona every so often. But I think I made the better choice for 80% of the road riding these days. Also the Streets are not as high revving as the Daytona & less likely to be trashed or raced.
You will see I upgraded to a 765. It isn’t worth the extra money for the improvement. Unless you have the money which I inherited, and then it is totally worth it, but that’s another story. I would have happily kept the 675.
So you have to ask; how much is it worth to you to have a bike you don’t end up riding vs one you do? Question how else you could earn or save that $3000 or maybe $2000 if you trade well?

release_the_bees

23rd January 2024, 22:18

I went from an SV1000 to an R3 for a couple of years. I wrote a pretty thorough review of the experience on here at the time. I'll see if I can track down my old post.

Edit: here it is: https://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=1131025673

I now have a second R3 and a Street Triple R 675. There were times that I missed the extra power a bit too much only owning the R3, but not half as much as I missed the extra agility of the smaller bike. My Street Triple is a very agile bike, but even compared to that the R3 is noticeably more flickable.

I'll second F5 Dave's experience with the Street Triple 675 it's a great bike that does everything well. I've done over 80,000 kms on my one now, all sorts of riding, and it's still in fantastic condition. The main reason for getting the second R3 was to keep some commuting kilometers off of the Street Triple, so that I can get a few extra years out of it. I also started doing track days, and wanted a bike that would be capable of doing the odd track day whilst still being a decent commuter bike.

While on that subject, the R3 is a bloody cheap track bike: I could ride from the shore to Pukekohe, do a track day, ride home and still have fuel left for the commute to work on Monday. The current Road 5 tyres have done 6 track days and 10,000 km of commuting and they still look like they've got plenty of life left in them.

Blackbird

24th January 2024, 09:50

Like F5 Dave and Release The Bees, I went from a big bike (1150 Blackbird) to a smaller capacity bike, a Street Triple. There were several reasons for this but in short, I didn't miss the big bike at all because my needs had changed. There's my comparison here if it helps: https://geoffjames.blogspot.com/2010/01/street-triple-vs-blackbird-some.html.

Cheers,

Geoff

Addict

24th January 2024, 22:53

Damn! you guys are awesome! so glad I put this question out here.

The whole pushing the bike to its limit thing is such a good point, I recall that my most enjoyable bike was a 96 CBR400RR, after some introspection, I think that is what I have been missing, the thrill of the "thrash" using all the power available.
Regarding the overtaking and committing to possible dangerous maneuvers, I don't think that will be a problem for me, i generally don't go past the speed limit due to learning a costly lesson - one month's licence suspension a few years ago:no:
My age...knocking on 49 this year <_<

Im starting to think the ktm swap might be a good idea and if after a while if i still miss the extra power i can always try to sell it and get a 600.

Financially its starting to look ok too. :shifty:

Thanks all, much appreciate the thought-provoking opinions and humble advice.

release_the_bees

25th January 2024, 07:35

I'm the same as you, in that I generally stick to posted limits.

When I first transitioned from my SV1000 to my R3, I did notice that there were times when I entered corners far hotter than I would have on the bigger bike, purely to conserve momentum. It wasn't usually a big issue, but it did lead to a couple of "that was a bit quicker than I'm comfortable with" moments.

It doesn't happen anymore, so I obviously adapted to it, but it is something to be aware of.

Sent from my SM-S901E using Tapatalk

R650R

25th January 2024, 18:34

If you want to go smaller get a 400-800cc adventure bike. If it’s going to be slower and smaller it may as well be off road/gravel capable. It will do wonders for your riding and get you used to feeling bike moving around.
And there nothing like embarrassing a flash sports bike through the twisties on a badly surfaced windy road. If you know how to ride then a sports bike has to be doing silly speeds before they’ll get past you.

I’ve done the usual steps up to big bikes then went small now back at big cc. After awhile you miss serious HP that makes long distance rides less fatiguing.HP also allows you to put distance between you and munters you dont want to be around.

The best bike is one that you want to ride and anything new to you always gives that buzz factor.

Berries

25th January 2024, 22:17

Ask yourself why you ride a bike before you flog the Tuono. I am sure I can't be the only person who rides a motorbike for the rush they can give you. I really regret downsizing a couple of years ago, only by 60cc but it was a 50 percent drop in power and unfortunately a 50 percent drop in enjoyment and thus riding. Jeez, have never just taken it out for a blast because it just does not excite me. This is the first bike I have ever had that I can say that about.

Was going to buy a 2006 Fireblade last week but the sale of my own failed downsizing experiment KTM690 Enduro fell through. A learned friend when I first got into bikes in the 1980's told me there was no substitute for cubes. It took me many years to realise he was on to something.

Keep the Aprilia and get a GN250 to ride when you are depressed. Sorted.

Kickaha

26th January 2024, 06:00

Was going to buy a 2006 Fireblade last week but the sale of my own failed downsizing experiment KTM690 Enduro fell through. A learned friend when I first got into bikes in the 1980's told me there was no substitute for cubes. It took me many years to realise he was on to something.
.

He was wrong, although it depends entirely on what it's going to be used for to if it matters , if you can't get excited about riding a KTM690 I suggest medication

What Year, km, accessories, tyres, location, etc, I am interested in getting one

Berries

26th January 2024, 10:13

He was wrong, although it depends entirely on what it's going to be used for to if it matters , if you can't get excited about riding a KTM690 I suggest medication

What Year, km, accessories, tyres, location, etc, I am interested in getting one
The intent was to do some off road stuff with my lad but it never happened. I ride it like a sports bike so yes, it is fun when it lifts the front wheel when accelerating out of a corner but it all gets a bit flappy and vague at the front when speeds get interesting or you have a decent headwind.

2020 model with 9,000km. No accessories, basically bog standard and just run in nicely. On the OE tyres but I will need to replace the front one shortly, first time I have worn a front out quicker than a rear which must say something. I am just outside rat city Dunedin.

rastuscat

26th January 2024, 13:29

It wasn't usually a big issue, but it did lead to a couple of "that was a bit quicker than I'm comfortable with" moments.

I think of those moments as "pucker" moments, when the butt cheeks clench, and hope becomes the primary plan.

F5 Dave

26th January 2024, 14:37

Funnily the other way when I used to ride my CBX550 to Bucket race meetings awaaay back. I stopped that practice when I fired the relatively small light 550 into a corner and was momentarily surprised when it was behaving like a big barge compared with what I had been racing an hour before.

Grumph

26th January 2024, 14:56

I went from a Mach 3 to an AC50 when i got married. Bike I dailied and raced to basic transport. Which got thrashed everywhere.

Dave - I always reckoned the daily ride should be bigger than what you raced. Rightly or not it gave you confidence you could handle the race bike at the limit.

F5 Dave

26th January 2024, 20:18

On slicks and crazy tight tracks we had lean angles not achieved by anything else ever. Until motogp tyres were invented. But normal bikes no way.

Addict

27th January 2024, 20:27

Well it seems the small bike is off the table, I have had an 04 GSXR1000 and a decent sum of cash waved under my nose and my god it smells goooood. Hopefully, the deal goes through and and few years down the track when I have a little less debt I will most likely swap it out for a Daytona 675 (if my body allows, I don't think I'm quite ready for a cruiser).

F5 Dave

28th January 2024, 07:45

I think cruisers were made for long straight featureless roads and "stay alive at 55" speed limits. I can't see how they are relevant on our roads baring some desperate fashion statement.

No, when you get pension age; we'll fit you up with a boxer BMW and an old school calculator so you can bore petrol station workers with consumption figures. ;)

pritch

28th January 2024, 07:59

I think cruisers were made for long straight featureless roads and "stay alive at 55" speed limits. I can't see how they are relevant on our roads baring some desperate fashion statement.

No, when you get pension age; we'll fit you up with a boxer BMW and an old school calculator so you can bore petrol station workers with consumption figures. ;)

Chortle.

I find cruisers tiring. Even at 100kph you function as some kind of a wind dam. At more normal cruising speeds it would be exhausting.

Note: That's a comment on comfort or the lack thereof. It's not a request for a discussion on cruising speeds.

SPman

31st January 2024, 13:34

Having got back on bikes after my wife died, it was drag out the remaining bikes in the barn - XJR1300, FZ1 and Suzuki GT250 X7. For a ride down to the shops or zipping about the local roads, the X7 is a barrel of fun, but for commuting into work, I've found the XJR is great. We didn't call it "the big comfy chair" for nothing, and with the mods done, it sounds and goes well - torque - the first 70km just leave it in top. and this morning it hummed along comfortably at 120 or so outside town ... The FZ1 (Marion's other bike) is just a bit tall and twitchy for general use, even though it's a very capable coverer of distance. But, getting old these days, and the reflexes and balance aren't quite what they were, so also looking at downsizing --- Street Triple probably (What Marion wanted to get to replace the FZ1 before she got ill,)

nerrrd

31st January 2024, 19:33

You might like to consider a Honda NC750X. It’s around 50hp, so not far off a LAMS bike, the engine is relaxed and low-revving, but still has plenty of grunt to carry stuff (just not at ballistic speeds) and is very economical.

So it’s a bit like a cruiser with upright ergonomics. It’s a fairly weighty thing, but the weight is carried down low (and the latest one from 2021 is a bit lighter with a bit more poke). I’m told they handle pretty well, not that I would be able to tell.

It’s technologically basic which makes servicing cheap, the styling has always been a bit, um, quirky, plus it has a whiff of scooter about it with a built in luggage compartment where the fuel tank is on other bikes and the actual tank hidden under the pillion seat, which I guess is not what a lot people are looking for in a motorcycle that’s used more for leisure than anything else.

I still manage to have fun on mine, at the same time it’s extremely practical and easy to live with. And very unlikely to be stolen :lol:.

release_the_bees

1st February 2024, 19:50

I rented an NC700X when I did the TT2000. I don't know how similar it is to the NC750X, but I've never hit the limiter so many times before, going from a bike with a 13,000 RPM redline, to one with 7,000. (if I remember correctly.)

It doesn't surprise me about what you said about the handling. I was pleasantly surprised by its handling, which was much better than I was expecting. The road from Napier to Wairoa was great fun. I can confirm that the brakes work acceptably too, as I gave them a good testing when somebody pulled out in front of me at a T junction in Paeroa.

I reckon the NC750X would make a great commuter. I think I prefer the power delivery of my Street Triple though.

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nerrrd

2nd February 2024, 11:43

I rented an NC700X when I did the TT2000. I don't know how similar it is to the NC750X, but I've never hit the limiter so many times before, going from a bike with a 13,000 RPM redline, to one with 7,000. (if I remember correctly.)

My 750 looks exactly the same as the 700, redline is 6,500 :lol:.

Most of the ones I see on TM are either high mileage (I’ve done 50,000+kms on mine) or very low mileage, which suggests to me riders either love them or hate them.

wetanz

5th February 2024, 08:46

although i see youve shelved the thought, for now, it is an interesting question - doesnt really have a definitive answer, each person, each mood and each day, all different - a complete mindfuque
the answer - a stable, full of rideable dreams, 2 wheels-2 legs what does it matter - hell, legless even :scooter: