PM Chloe Swarbrick

[Berries]

A bit dodgy?

[Laava]

OK boomer!

[1/32 man]

Give it time my son. All good things come to those who wait.

I'm still effin waiting!

[pritch]

Recently I came across the video clip of her Green colleague Ms Ghahramen "shopping". There is a woman in the background with longish dark hair and RWNJs were advancing the theory that it was Ms Swabrick. She denied this which excited them - because they now had her denial on record.

I expect they will be even more excited now. I'm expecting the clip to make an imminent reappearance.

[F5 Dave]

A bit dodgy?
I'd tap ya.
No. Wait.
How does this work? :blink:

[R650R]

As we head further into banana republic status perhaps she’s all we deserve. She’s just the kind of militant nutbar that could trigger a civil war allowing team America to come in and turn us into a submarine base for South Pacific.
At last election her speech was frothing at mouth fevour like they had actually won. Ah no girls you did was end up in opposition benches, yes you have a paid job still but you have zero power.
It’s scary that ten percent of those that voted did it for them.
While we are talking about greens, an ad came up for something called work ride. Looks like it’s been out awhile but just like the clean car subsidy it’s a policy that benefits the rich.
You buy an e-bike, it’s jacked up through your employer so it’s bought direct from your pretax salary/wages and therefore get a tax break. Technically you lease the bike (meaning your obliged to maintain it and not wreck it) for a year or so then the administrators of scheme typically let you keep it. There is no real policing in place to see if you actually commute to work on it or just ride to wineries on weekends.
A half decent e-bike is between 10-20k. In current climate I don’t know many ordinary people that would be keen to lose even a small portion of their income for what’s effectively a luxury item that will be sporadically used.

[Berries]

Steady on Dave, she's only 14.

[pete376403]

As we head further into banana republic status perhaps she’s all we deserve. She’s just the kind of militant nutbar that could trigger a civil war allowing team America to come in and turn us into a submarine base for South Pacific.

Starting to sound like Faux News and trump in the US, foaming and spitting at the thought of Taylor Swift endorsing Biden. Swarbrick *could* inspire a lot more young people to vote and possibly upset the old white misogynist balance of power. (it's been done before)

[pritch]

A half decent e-bike is between 10-20k.

Nah. Twenty grand is likely a mountain bike with full suspension and with frame and components made of titanium or other exotic materials. Ten to twenty is likely also a mountain bike but with less unobtanium components.

A serviceable road/commuter bike can be had for five to six thousand, they start about half that.

There is an Auckland journo commutes on an E bike. He got T boned by a motorist and when he recovered he consequently needed a new bike. He bought a new bike fitted out to his requirements for about five thousand. A commuter bike doesn't need suspension but it does need mudguards, a carrier, and lights.

[Blackbird]

Nah. Twenty grand is likely a mountain bike with full suspension and with frame and components made of titanium or other exotic materials. Ten to twenty is likely also a mountain bike but with less unobtanium components.

A serviceable road/commuter bike can be had for five to six thousand, they start about half that.

There is an Auckland journo commutes on an E bike. He got T boned by a motorist and when he recovered he consequently needed a new bike. He bought a new bike fitted out to his requirements for about five thousand. A commuter bike doesn't need suspension but it does need mudguards, a carrier, and lights.

I bought a Giant Talon e+1 e-MTB a couple of years ago. Long travel front suspension, no rear suspension but I added a sprung seat post. Paid ~$5000 for it. I use it on the off-road trails here in Coromandel including some steep stuff, but avoid the grade 3/4 trails as a nod to a 76 year old body. I've covered a bit over 2500 km so far and absolutely love it. I've never pushed the range but at the lowest power setting, it's good for somewhere in the region of 160 km. At highest power, a little over 60 km. I actually bought it to strengthen dodgy knees. Since then, I've had one completely replaced with another at some time in the future.

[F5 Dave]

I spent about that (actually $4300) on a 2014 GG Trials bike in minty condition 2 yrs back with lots of new just-in-case new spares. I was a little lucky. But I bet much more fun and skills increasing than an ebike.
Problem is it lent to a spanky new one when I got hooked (again).
Still kept the older one for friends.
Storage space might get the better of it if I need room. Or maybe I can jiggle in an 8th. . .
Buy a Trials bike.

Sorry? What were we talking about?
Oh, right.
The Lizard masters. :rolleyes:

[R650R]

Starting to sound like Faux News and trump in the US, foaming and spitting at the thought of Taylor Swift endorsing Biden. Swarbrick *could* inspire a lot more young people to vote and possibly upset the old white misogynist balance of power. (it's been done before)

This country has frequently had women leaders during last several decades so I don’t know where you get that from.And there is no evidence of anti women decisions from our govts past and present. What great things would a non white leader do for NZ that a white leader couldn’t, just out of interest????
Our country is very diverse perhaps we will have an Asian or Indian political leader soon which could be very interesting as both cultures are hard working and pro private enterprise. Could seem a boom is sole traders and easier for people to run their own businesses.

[pete376403]

This country has frequently had women leaders during last several decades so I donÂ’t know where you get that from.And there is no evidence of anti women decisions from our govts past and present. What great things would a non white leader do for NZ that a white leader couldnÂ’t, just out of interest????
Our country is very diverse perhaps we will have an Asian or Indian political leader soon which could be very interesting as both cultures are hard working and pro private enterprise. Could seem a boom is sole traders and easier for people to run their own businesses.

Racial origin shouldn't come into it at all. Nor should sex . But you may have noticed (indeed, contributed to) the venomous misogynistic hatred, death threats, violence that has been targeted against women politicians in this country that by and large, male pollies seem to have avoided. And three (two elected, one by a coup) women compared to six men since David Lange is not really "frequently".

[pritch]

This country has frequently had women leaders during last several decades

Yeah, but I don't recall Jenny Shipley or Helen Clark inspiring masses of young voters. Which is what the Republicans are worried about.




Our country is very diverse perhaps we will have an Asian or Indian political leader soon which could be very interesting as both cultures are hard working and pro private enterprise. Could seem a boom is sole traders and easier for people to run their own businesses.

Britain has one such at the moment. It doesn't seem to be working out as you expect.

[R650R]

Racial origin shouldn't come into it at all. Nor should sex . But you may have noticed (indeed, contributed to) the venomous misogynistic hatred, death threats, violence that has been targeted against women politicians in this country that by and large, male pollies seem to have avoided. And three (two elected, one by a coup) women compared to six men since David Lange is not really "frequently".

The Adjective factory called, they want their sample book back. If I had contributed to anything you claimed above I’d be in prison so get your facts right aye?

The only thing close to violence would be the clown that put an axe through Helen’s electorate office window while she was clearly not there. And they had to resort to the ancient charge of sedition to actually do that guy for anything(although clearly wrong and stupid action by him).
And dredging the pit deeper would be marama Davidson deliberately stepping into the path of a Harley at protest march.

Now contrast that with James Shaw getting randomly bashed, Steven Joyce getting a dildo thrown at him, don brash mud thrown at. Also Michael Laws in his review of the Gholriz saga said death threats and the like were a daily occurrence and no one ever touched him, so it’s definitely something that happens across board because there are nutters out there. You can’t use it as some kind of warped defence of criticism of poor policy.

Given the under representation of women they have frequently been in power on statistical basis.

[R650R]

Yeah, but I don't recall Jenny Shipley or Helen Clark inspiring masses of young voters. Which is what the Republicans are worried about.





Britain has one such at the moment. It doesn't seem to be working out as you expect.

Didn’t the republicans have that chick in Alaska???

That pommy chap is making a right hash of it. Trouble is due to the whole four year cycle thing we’ll never go through enough diverse leaders to really know who’s better or worse. And look at Obama, did he really change anything for the longer term?
Society really needs to go back to meritocracy and judge people by results and not identity otherwise we have several lost decades of no significant technological or social progress.

[pritch]

Didn’t the republicans have that chick in Alaska???


Sarah Palin? That could've been worse, it might have been Michele Bachman.

https://theweek.com/articles/482642/newsweeks-crazy-eyes-michele-bachmann-cover

No female politician is comparable to Taylor Swift, she is not a politician. The Republicans are worried that she could mobilise a virtual army of young voters.

Some RWNJs have theorised that Swift is hanging out with a football star to gain fame from the association. I'm not a fan of Swift particularly but I suspect she's way more famous and wealthy than her football player.

Now they have decided she's a psy op. Untreated paranoia could lead to conclusions like that I guess.

[R650R]

Maybe a few commentators perhaps but really all that happens is the celebrities involved ending up devaluing their brands given how polarising USA politics is.

[sugilite]

Maybe a few commentators perhaps but really all that happens is the celebrities involved ending up devaluing their brands given how polarising USA politics is.

Fox news has gone nuts deep in the Swift "psy op" malarkey, emphasis on the "nuts"!

It did not seem to do her brand any harm in 2018 and 2020.
In 2018 all she said was register to vote, not even who to vote for and the gop were falling all over the place clutching their pearls. They only seem to like free speech when it is them talking :facepalm:

[R650R]

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350207518/green-party-elects-chloe-swarbrick-new-co-leader

Upset about the “ the “stitch up” that was legacy politics, represented by the Labour and National parties, that “limits the oxygen and the options that people need to imagine and, in turn, limiting real world results”.”

She forgets that the system just gave her six years of unearned oxygen thanks to Jacinda.talk about bite the hand that feeds you.

Says “The country voted for the MMP electoral system,in the 1990s to “break” a duopoly political system, she said.” Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. Like their policies or not the current three way of national/act/nzf is seeing a great diversity of policy options come together.

While having this big cry about inclusivity she continues on to say she will work to make greens dominate voice of left 🤣😂😀😂😀😂. Yep that’s what the left is about, one big dominate party in control, sounds lot like “ legacy politics” lol

God help us if labour falls apart more and she captures the youth/women vote like Jacinda did

[nerrrd]

Says “The country voted for the MMP electoral system,in the 1990s to “break” a duopoly political system, she said.” Talk about not seeing the wood for the trees. Like their policies or not the current three way of national/act/nzf is seeing a great diversity of policy options come together.


I think she has a point, although in a different way – given how much Labour and National have mimicked each other’s policies over the years since MMP was brought in, a grand coalition between the two would easily be the most stable, democratic outcome for voters. it might even make some decent, long term planning possible.

The vested interests on both sides (in so far as they are ‘sides’, more like degrees of difference) won’t let that happen. That, to me, smacks of contempt on behalf of both parties for the system and the voters.

[BMWST?]

I think she has a point, although in a different way – given how much Labour and National have mimicked each other’s policies over the years since MMP was brought in, a grand coalition between the two would easily be the most stable, democratic outcome for voters. it might even make some decent, long term planning possible.

The vested interests on both sides (in so far as they are ‘sides’, more like degrees of difference) won’t let that happen. That, to me, smacks of contempt on behalf of both parties for the system and the voters.
its a gravy train. I am sure they have altruistic ideas but they have a career and a living for life if they ca stick around.They will hang onto that as long as they can

[Oakie]

I thought the Greens put in their constitution that they would have co-leaders, one male and one female? That's what they've had for a while now.

[husaberg]

i thought the greens put in their constitution that they would have co-leaders, one male and one female? That's what they've had for a while now.
............


under the green party's constitution, the party is led by two co-leaders. Historically, it was required that one of the co-leaders be female and the other male. However, the constitution was amended in may 2022 to remove the requirement that one co-leader be male. Additionally, it was resolved that one of the two co-leaders must be maori

[FLUB]

I thought the Greens put in their constitution that they would have co-leaders, one male and one female? That's what they've had for a while now.One fancies men the other fancies women. Isn't that the same? [emoji6]

Sent from my Lenovo TB-J606F using Tapatalk

[husaberg]

look; at Obama, did he really change anything for the longer term?
Other than the millions who got access to life saving free heathcare......

Society really needs to go back to meritocracy and judge people by results and not identity
Like all those COVID deaths Trump needlessly caused, or millions in fraud or the election he attempted to overthrow.

[R650R]

Damn that didn’t take long, new greens scandal emerging just after Grab a bargain pleads guilty to all four charges.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350212958/green-mp-suspended-amid-migration-exploitation-claims

The Green Party has suspended one of its MPs, Darleen Tana, and appointed an independent lawyer to investigate her conduct after a Stuff investigation into allegations of migrant exploitation at a business owned by her husband.
The Greens suspended Tana on Thursday afternoon after Stuff put a series of questions to her about the allegations that the company, E-Bikes NZ, employed a worker who was in New Zealand on a visitor visa, and paid him in cash until he secured a work visa.
The worker, Santiago Latour Palma, says that he completed a one-day work trial at the business under the oversight of Tana, and was paid in cash.
Palma claims he is owed about $25,000 in wages and holiday pay by the business. He has lodged an ERA claim.

MPs, Darleen Tana, and appointed an independent lawyer to investigate her conduct after a Stuff investigation into allegations of migrant exploitation at a business owned by her husband.
The Greens suspended Tana on Thursday afternoon after Stuff put a series of questions to her about the allegations that the company, E-Bikes NZ, employed a worker who was in New Zealand on a visitor visa, and paid him in cash until he secured a work visa.
The worker, Santiago Latour Palma, says that he completed a one-day work trial at the business under the oversight of Tana, and was paid in cash.
Palma claims he is owed about $25,000 in wages and holiday pay by the business. He has lodged an ERA claim.

[husaberg]

Damn that didn’t take long, new greens scandal emerging just after Grab a bargain pleads guilty to all four charges.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350212958/green-mp-suspended-amid-migration-exploitation-claims

The Green Party has suspended one of its MPs, Darleen Tana, and appointed an independent lawyer to investigate her conduct after a Stuff investigation into allegations of migrant exploitation at a business owned by her husband.
The Greens suspended Tana on Thursday afternoon after Stuff put a series of questions to her about the allegations that the company, E-Bikes NZ, employed a worker who was in New Zealand on a visitor visa, and paid him in cash until he secured a work visa.
The worker, Santiago Latour Palma, says that he completed a one-day work trial at the business under the oversight of Tana, and was paid in cash.
Palma claims he is owed about $25,000 in wages and holiday pay by the business. He has lodged an ERA claim.

MPs, Darleen Tana, and appointed an independent lawyer to investigate her conduct after a Stuff investigation into allegations of migrant exploitation at a business owned by her husband.
The Greens suspended Tana on Thursday afternoon after Stuff put a series of questions to her about the allegations that the company, E-Bikes NZ, employed a worker who was in New Zealand on a visitor visa, and paid him in cash until he secured a work visa.
The worker, Santiago Latour Palma, says that he completed a one-day work trial at the business under the oversight of Tana, and was paid in cash.
Palma claims he is owed about $25,000 in wages and holiday pay by the business. He has lodged an ERA claim.

So to you its a scandal that the party suspended a person that as a result of an independent investigation from a journalist organisation is under suspicion.
yet you say nothing when other parties don't suspend nz MP's and encourage non co-operation with police and also when the current govt want to get rid of independent journalists....

[PrincessBandit]

I’m usually all for “yay you go gurl” but I have to say Chloe ( sorry cant find the cool umlaut to decorate her name with) makes me feel like I’m breaking out in hives. There is just something uber smug and soooo condescending about the delivery of everything that comes out of her mouth. To me she comes across as trying too hard to be the next big thing in pollytix jumping on bandwagons and chanting slogans to her devotees.
You know how some ppl just make you want to punch them in the face? Well…(and I’m not normally a violent person )

[R650R]

I’m usually all for “yay you go gurl” but I have to say Chloe ( sorry cant find the cool umlaut to decorate her name with) makes me feel like I’m breaking out in hives. There is just something uber smug and soooo condescending about the delivery of everything that comes out of her mouth. To me she comes across as trying too hard to be the next big thing in pollytix jumping on bandwagons and chanting slogans to her devotees.
You know how some ppl just make you want to punch them in the face? Well…(and I’m not normally a violent person )

The scary thing is there is a generation of youngsters brainwashed by education system that think she is the Joan of Arc of our time. The youth have a thirst for revolution.unfortunately few have studied history enough to know what that always leads too….

I’ve yet to here any real solutions for anything come from here, just rants about how bad everything is, she should be on kiwibiker lol

[husaberg]

The scary thing is there is a generation of youngsters brainwashed by education system that think she is the Joan of Arc of our time. The youth have a thirst for revolution.unfortunately few have studied history enough to know what that always leads too….

I’ve yet to here any real solutions for anything come from here, just rants about how bad everything is, she should be on kiwibiker lol
okay boomer

[nerrrd]

I’ve yet to here any real solutions for anything come from here, just rants about how bad everything is, she should be on kiwibiker lol

You keep using this forum, I do not think it's for what you think it's for...

[R650R]

The Herald just gave Chloe a bit of oxygen or perhaps it was laughing gas because she ended her rant mentioning Rogernomics.
She’s not a fan apparently of the reforms in 1984 done by the lefty Labour Party in its fourth term.
While a lot of it was unpopular at the time it did cure the double digit inflation at time down to single figures.
Also quotes thatcher so hopefully she’s heard her line on socialism, “eventually you run out of other people’s mo way to spend”.
So that should leave you in no doubt what NZ will look like if greens ever get into power.

[pritch]

Also quotes thatcher so hopefully she’s heard her line on socialism, “eventually you run out of other people’s mo way to spend”.
So that should leave you in no doubt what NZ will look like if greens ever get into power.

The ghost of Thatcher is haunting the Poms. Thatcher privatised the gas industry. In the last year or so the company that owned seventy percent of the British gas storage capacity decided to go out of the gas storage business leaving Britain with very modest gas storage capacity. Price increases were fed straight into the system. Pensioners were getting power bills worth a thousand quid plus. The increases made electric cars expensive to run and have even (gasp) increased the price of whisky, and anything else that uses electricity in production. Which is pretty much everything.

[Cosmik de Bris]

I can't listen to chloe, she is just a drone on the radio, talks too fast and has little to no expression in her voice.

cheers

[nerrrd]

The Herald just gave Chloe a bit of oxygen or perhaps it was laughing gas because she ended her rant mentioning Rogernomics.
She’s not a fan apparently of the reforms in 1984 done by the lefty Labour Party in its fourth term.
While a lot of it was unpopular at the time it did cure the double digit inflation at time down to single figures.
Also quotes thatcher so hopefully she’s heard her line on socialism, “eventually you run out of other people’s mo way to spend”.
So that should leave you in no doubt what NZ will look like if greens ever get into power.

Ah Rogernomics, the last time everything got so unaffordable that there had to be an economic reset in Aotearoa.

Not that they magically made everything affordable, they just dropped the pretence that public services were too important to underfund and simply underfunded them in perpetuity. And privatised all the profitable (at the time) bits.

Don't think I want to be around for the next one, actually without a pension I guess I won't be for long.

[pete376403]

Ah Rogernomics, the last time everything got so unaffordable that there had to be an economic reset in Aotearoa.

Not that they magically made everything affordable, they just dropped the pretence that public services were too important to underfund and simply underfunded them in perpetuity. And privatised all the profitable (at the time) bits.

Don't think I want to be around for the next one, actually without a pension I guess I won't be for long.

Dont forget Ruthenasia, that was fun (for some) too

[pritch]

Dont forget Ruthenasia, that was fun (for some) too

Yeah. The rest of the world was having a boom time, Richardson and Shipley gave NZ a recession. That was so much fun (for some) that we are looking likely to repeat the experience.

[R650R]

The Dutch are acknowledged as pretty smart people, many speak several languages as part of normal education. Anyhow the farmers and people’s protest at green lunacy have created a positive result, our politicians should take note the people don’t want to starve or freeze to death due to green policies.

Six months after Geert Wilders won the Dutch election he has finally negotiated an agreement with a few minor parties to form government and the unthinkable has happened. The centre-of-the-road conservatives (referred to as “far right extremists”) got elected to unwind the worst excesses of the totalitarian left. Henceforth, the forced farm reclamations will stop, mandated heat pumps are out, electric car subsidies are going and in a brave scientific move, no one will be culling livestock to change the weather. The Netherlands won’t have to pursue stronger environmental policies than the rest of the EU so their leaders can show off at cocktail parties and get jobs with the UN. The Netherlands will still be tied to crazy EU rules, but those elections are coming next month. And official government ministers are so much harder to ignore in EU negotiations. The landscape has changed.

The Telegraph in the UK gets the message: The Tories should go to war on Net Zero. This applies everywhere else too. Tony Abbott didn’t win a 90 seat landslide victory in Australia by trying to do half a carbon tax. He won because he said he would Axe the Tax. (And Stop the Boats.)

The political candidate who goes to war on Stupid Plans has the freedom to point out the all the stupidity. The weaker man with a halfway plan is still agreeing with the witchcraft, he’s just suggesting a different spell. No wonder it doesn’t sell.

To arrange the deal Wilders gave up the Prime Ministership (a win no doubt for the namecalling mud slingers), but he appears to be the one in charge nonetheless. We hope he gets his day…


Dutch farmers force heat pumps about-turn
Meike Eijsberg London and James Crisp, The Telegraph

The Netherlands will tear up rules forcing homeowners to buy heat pumps as part of a war on net zero by Geert Wilders and the Dutch farmers’ party.

Six months after his shock election victory, Mr Wilders this week struck an agreement to usher in a Right-wing coalition government of four parties. “We are writing history,” he said as he announced the programme for the new government.

The new coalition marks the first time that a party focused on the interests of the agricultural sector has got into power in the Netherlands. Earlier this year, mass farmers’ protests swept Europe.

The coalition pact includes pledges to reverse green policies introduced under the previous government to hit EU climate targets, including compulsory buyouts of polluting farms. It also plans to end subsidies for electric cars in 2025 and rejects an EU demand that the Dutch reduce livestock numbers to cut pollution.

The Tories should go to war on net zero excess
Editorial, The Telegraph

But now even Western countries are starting to turn against the worst excesses of the green movement. The new Dutch coalition has released its programme for government, and at the heart of it are a swathe of pro-consumer, pro-energy security policies, reversing some of the bizarre environmental schemes introduced by its predecessors.

Among them was a programme to compulsorily purchase farms to meet EU climate targets. The result was a farmers’ revolt and a new insurgent political party. The coalition agreement tears up rules forcing homeowners to buy heat pumps, and scraps an obligation that the Netherlands should pursue a “more ambitious environment policy” than the rest of Europe.


Young voters are shifting right and breaking “taboos”
Geert Wilders party did better among 18 – 35 year olds than among some older groups. If all ages matched the younger vote his party would have won four more seats.

At Politico writers are worried that trends like this, which are also seen in Portugul and France mean the “taboos against voting for populist anti-immigration parties is fading”. Which begs the question of who decided that was taboo in the first place?

Their biggest fear is that even young voters are breaking out of their educational pens. They paint this as a devious “far right” opportunity, instead of what it really is, the young rebelling against a lifetime of propaganda. The old jargon and namecalling formula to bully the workers into submission isn’t working any more.

Geert Wilder turned all corners of Dutch Society into far right voters

By Hanne Cokelaere and Eva Hartog, Politico

Across Europe, far right parties are advancing with support from young — and first time — voters. Despite being one of the EU’s wealthiest countries, the Netherlands’ shortage of affordable housing has become a key concern. Amid rising prices, many have an increasingly cynical outlook on life. Unlike their parents and grandparents, this generation feels less restricted by party loyalties, making them more of a wild card and therefore an attractive pool of new voters for anti-establishment candidates.

“The older voter, who was still loyal, is dying; younger voters are going in all directions,” said Josse de Voogd, a Dutch researcher who has made electoral geography his specialty.

For far-right parties, that presents an opportunity.

Wilders’ success took many by surprise, but it is indicative of a broader trend: The taboo of voting for populist, anti-immigration parties is fading. In the June EU election, the European Parliament’s Identity and Democracy group is projected to reap the electoral benefits of increasingly broad support; also among young voters.

In Portugal, exit polls from the March election suggested that under-30s accounted for approximately 25 percent of those who voted for the far-right Chega party.

Young voters are looking for a strong leader and few men are as strong as Geert Wilders — the man who received countless death threats and lives under permanent guard, but keeps going.

Young voters are looking for a strong leader and few men are as strong as Geert Wilders — the man who received countless death threats and lives under permanent guard, but keeps going. It is easy to imagine the new Prime Minister (whoever that is) living in the shadow of the real leader, the man who takes risks.

[pete376403]

Hilarious - a country at almost as much risk as Kiribati or Tuvalu from rising sea levels rolling back climate change initiatives. It is not that long ago that much of the Netherlands was under the North Sea.

[nerrrd]

Hilarious - a country at almost as much risk as Kiribati or Tuvalu from rising sea levels rolling back climate change initiatives. It is not that long ago that much of the Netherlands was under the North Sea.

I guess when the sea does rise significantly, they might change their minds? At the moment most western democracies seem to be experiencing an existential emotional crisis brought on by harder economic times than they're accustomed to and doom scrolling on the internet. And a couple of wars.

'Charity begins at home', as the saying goes. Until they feel prosperous again, Kiribati and Tuvalu will have to look elsewhere (China perhaps?)

[pete376403]

I guess when the sea does rise significantly, they might change their minds? At the moment most western democracies seem to be experiencing an existential emotional crisis brought on by harder economic times than they're accustomed to and doom scrolling on the internet. And a couple of wars.

'Charity begins at home', as the saying goes. Until they feel prosperous again, Kiribati and Tuvalu will have to look elsewhere (China perhaps?)
You bet China is waiting there with open arms and chequebook. That Australian and NZ governments are warning abbut Chinese influence in the Pacific is all very well but it doesnt pay the bills. Also China has some experience in building up low lying (to the point of being underwater) islands

[husaberg]

Six months after Geert Wilders won the Dutch election he has finally negotiated an agreement with a few minor parties to form government and the unthinkable has happened. The centre-of-the-road conservatives (referred to as “far right extremists”) got elected to unwind the worst excesses of the totalitarian left.
Won the election? he got 37 seats out of 150 those minor parties you refer to nearly got as many seats as his party. I pick as it took him six months to get this far he will not even be prime minister.

[R650R]

Hilarious - a country at almost as much risk as Kiribati or Tuvalu from rising sea levels rolling back climate change initiatives. It is not that long ago that much of the Netherlands was under the North Sea.

Well they’re quite clever people. We’ve had about 30 solid years of fear porn news articles about rising sea levels and it hasn’t happened. If you go back and read mainstream news from 30 years ago you’ll find articles quoting scientists that seal levels are supposed to be a whole metre higher by now, hadn’t happened.

[neels]

Well they’re quite clever people. We’ve had about 30 solid years of fear porn news articles about rising sea levels and it hasn’t happened.

Um, yes it has (is).....

three-islands-disappeared-past-year-climate-change-blame (https://www.nbcnews.com/mach/science/three-islands-disappeared-past-year-climate-change-blame-ncna1015316)

[husaberg]

Well they’re quite clever people. We’ve had about 30 solid years of fear porn news articles about rising sea levels and it hasn’t happened.

Reality differs from your opinion as per usual. but at least you are incredibly consistent.
What is it that drives you to troll post so consistently on KB. I say this as no one can really be as thick as you make yourself appear on this forum?

https://www.stats.govt.nz/indicators/coastal-sea-level-rise/

[BMWST?]

Won the election? he got 37 seats out of 150 those minor parties you refer to nearly got as many seats as his party. I pick as it took him six months to get this far he will not even be prime minister.
yes 37 seats is way more than the next highest tally of 25. Thats a win 354702

[pete376403]

yes 37 seats is way more than the next highest tally of 25. Thats a win

Not if the remaining 113 form a coalition. Or even 76. As our own government has shown, the lure of power is enough incentive to hold ones nose.
And again, as our own government shows, the trouble is the tail ends up wagging the dog.

[F5 Dave]

Talking of sea levels. .

"Ahh, Venice. Gondolas Gondolas, and more fuling Gondolas."

(Virtual chocolate fish for identifying correct film source).

[husaberg]

Talking of sea levels. .

"Ahh, Venice. Gondolas Gondolas, and more fuling Gondolas."

(Virtual chocolate fish for identifying correct film source).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQrYlM_w8BM

[F5 Dave]

Thank you, two virtual chocolate fish. Haven't seen that since I saw Life of Brian in the cinema 40 + years ago. Not exactly as I remembered but funny as fuck because you are not expecting it. Note: have to continue to part 2

[sugilite]

Ahhh yes, we must get that report out in a timely manner, so we cannot possibly make time to interview what is probably the most key witness to this debacle - nothing suspicious about that at all. Carry on.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350288963/darleen-tana-inquiry-greens-investigator-wont-talk-key-witness

[JimO]

Ah Rogernomics, the last time everything got so unaffordable that there had to be an economic reset in [R RATED]Aotearoa[/R RATED].

Not that they magically made everything affordable, they just dropped the pretence that public services were too important to underfund and simply underfunded them in perpetuity. And privatised all the profitable (at the time) bits.

Don't think I want to be around for the next one, actually without a pension I guess I won't be for long.
how about in New Zealand

[nerrrd]

how about in New Zealand

How about in Staten Land

[R650R]

Ahhh yes, we must get that report out in a timely manner, so we cannot possibly make time to interview what is probably the most key witness to this debacle - nothing suspicious about that at all. Carry on.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/350288963/darleen-tana-inquiry-greens-investigator-wont-talk-key-witness

He will be heard where it actually matters at the employment court.

The inquiry is being held by a lawyer on the greens payroll, the timely matter is probably the greens current account hemorrhaging at the hourly rate of such services. Also mentioned quietly is a set of terms of reference. So just like a royal commission it’s an inquiry rather than a proper “ investigation”.
No doubt someone at IRD is doing a real investigation after hearing the words paid in cash… now they will get a result!

[R650R]

Today the RBNZ cut cash rate due to National managing inflationary pressures down and banks quickly started dropping interest rates.
Somehow Chloe couldn’t see anything good in people’s mortgage rates getting lower and went on a rant about child poverty et al.
Of someone can explain why it’s a bad thing to have mortgage rates go down please explain.

“Greens: RBNZ lowers OCR, Govt continues ‘let them eat cake’ strategy
While the Reserve Bank lowers the Official Cash Rate, it’s this Government’s policies driving poverty in our communities.

“The Reserve Bank’s decision to slightly lower interest rates today will be welcome news for some, but won’t help the approximate 23,000 more kids the Government is pushing into poverty,” says Green Party co-leader and spokesperson for Finance Chlöe Swarbrick.

“Monetary policy is a blunt instrument. It’s fiscal policy - that is, the Government’s choices on tax and spend - which dictates the rules, who wins, and who loses in our economy.”

[TheDemonLord]

Today the RBNZ cut cash rate due to National managing inflationary pressures down and banks quickly started dropping interest rates.
Somehow Chloe couldn’t see anything good in people’s mortgage rates getting lower and went on a rant about child poverty et al.
Of someone can explain why it’s a bad thing to have mortgage rates go down please explain.

“Greens: RBNZ lowers OCR, Govt continues ‘let them eat cake’ strategy
While the Reserve Bank lowers the Official Cash Rate, it’s this Government’s policies driving poverty in our communities.

“The Reserve Bank’s decision to slightly lower interest rates today will be welcome news for some, but won’t help the approximate 23,000 more kids the Government is pushing into poverty,” says Green Party co-leader and spokesperson for Finance Chlöe Swarbrick.

“Monetary policy is a blunt instrument. It’s fiscal policy - that is, the Government’s choices on tax and spend - which dictates the rules, who wins, and who loses in our economy.”

If she understood economics or maths, she would not be a Green Party member.

[sugilite]

What makes me chortle is how the greens have become the leading crime gang comprising of thieves and migrant worker exploiters :laugh:

[TheDemonLord]

What makes me chortle is how the greens have become the leading crime gang comprising of thieves and migrant worker exploiters :laugh:

Marxists eventually show their true colours ;)

[sugilite]

Marxists eventually show their true colours ;)

Green! But not the environmental shade :shifty:

[R650R]

“The Greens say if they were in government they could borrow 122% of GDP. To put that in perspective that’s $550 billion of debt. Last time they were in government they borrowed $150 billion, and nothing got better. What did change, is that we now pay $9 billion a year in interest.

On $550 billion we would be paying at least $30 billion in interest, about the same as the entire health budget right now. We don’t doubt that they could spend the money, the issue is they have a track record of getting no value for money, and they have no idea how we have to pay it back. That’s why these people must be kept out of government.”

[TheDemonLord]

Say it with me Kids:


The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.

[pritch]

TDLs little quote looks good but... Our national debt is low compared to the UK and the USA both of which are over 100% of GDP. Twelve years of Tory government austerity did nothing to lower the UK national debt. It would be a stretch to describe them as socialist.

The US national debt is even higher and it's mostly due to the Republicans. They constantly whine about balancing the budget while the Democrats are in power then spend like drunken sailors when they themselves are in power. Trump's contribution last go round was the biggest ever hike in history. Now he wants to boost it even higher. Currently even the Republicans in the Senate are resisting. It would be a stretch to describe Trump's tax cuts for billionaires as socialist.

[TheDemonLord]

TDLs little quote looks good but... Our national debt is low compared to the UK and the USA both of which are over 100% of GDP. Twelve years of Tory government austerity did nothing to lower the UK national debt. It would be a stretch to describe them as socialist.

It would also be a stretch to describe the Tories as Conservative. Maggie would be rolling in her grave if she saw what they had done to the country.

The best way I have seen it articulated is "They adopted Tony Blair's framework" - Blair is when everything went wrong for the UK and the current state of UK politics is as a direct result of his constitutional reforms and the Tories absolute failure.


The US national debt is even higher and it's mostly due to the Republicans. They constantly whine about balancing the budget while the Democrats are in power then spend like drunken sailors when they themselves are in power. Trump's contribution last go round was the biggest ever hike in history. Now he wants to boost it even higher. Currently even the Republicans in the Senate are resisting. It would be a stretch to describe Trump's tax cuts for billionaires as socialist.

Here is the thing though - I agree that the US National Debt is a problem and it has implications for us down in NZ.

The key question though is where is the Money being spent? Infrastructure that will help boost productivity and generate more taxable money exchanges? I could live with that. Or pet projects that are of dubious value (or in some cases have been shown not to work completely) and just piss away tax payer money.

And to be clear - both sides of the coin get the smoke on this one. I remember well the $27 Million we pissed away on a Flag redesign that no one wanted.

[sugilite]

Ahhh, the old "Spending other peoples money" trope from the right.
When somehow blowing out deficits for tax cuts for the rich is somehow not "Spending Other Peoples Money".
Give me a fucking break.

And yeah, the greens wanting to borrow that much money, fucking stupid. Also self defeating if they ever want to get voted in at numbers to make a difference.

[TheDemonLord]

Ahhh, the old "Spending other peoples money" trope from the right.
When somehow blowing out deficits for tax cuts for the rich is somehow not "Spending Other Peoples Money".
Give me a fucking break.

I mean, from a point of pure pedantry, tax cuts are - definitionally - not spending other people's money...


And yeah, the greens wanting to borrow that much money, fucking stupid. Also self defeating if they ever want to get voted in at numbers to make a difference.

I mean the borrowing is bad and all - but the big issue for me is what would it be spent on?

Mostly it would be spent on pipedreams, feel-good projects, NGOs, Technology that is not mature to fulfill the required roles and other nonsense.

[sugilite]

I mean, from a point of pure pedantry, tax cuts are - definitionally - not spending other people's money...
By definition, every dollar spent by a government is other peoples money.



I mean the borrowing is bad and all - but the big issue for me is what would it be spent on?

Mostly it would be spent on pipedreams, feel-good projects, NGOs, Technology that is not mature to fulfill the required roles and other nonsense.
For sure, that is the exact types of things they would blow the money on.
I do not find tax cuts for the wealthy any more palatable though.

[TheDemonLord]

By definition, every dollar spent by a government is other peoples money.

Exactly :msn-wink:


For sure, that is the exact types of things they would blow the money on.
I do not find tax cuts for the wealthy any more palatable though.

I guess that is a fundamental difference - I don't mind that.

But on a serious philosophical note - Imagine for the moment a scenario where the Wealthy and the Government came to an agreement - they would cut taxes for the Wealthy, on the provision that the Wealthy on-shore their wealth, invest in New Zealand Business, Donate to their community etc.

Let us also for the sake of this wild hypothetical assume that the Wealthy would agree to this and not do any tax loop-hole lawyering to get out of this obligation.

Would that be more or less palatable?

[sugilite]

But on a serious philosophical note - Imagine for the moment a scenario where the Wealthy and the Government came to an agreement - they would cut taxes for the Wealthy, on the provision that the Wealthy on-shore their wealth, invest in New Zealand Business, Donate to their community etc.

Let us also for the sake of this wild hypothetical assume that the Wealthy would agree to this and not do any tax loop-hole lawyering to get out of this obligation.

Would that be more or less palatable?
I'm assuming this will morph into some sort of gotcha, but I "guess" I would find that more palatable. The word wild is apt, as I cannot see the wealthy agreeing to it, as it would be great for the country (I think) but quite restrictive for them in terms of investment opportunities in NZ that would return as much, or more to them than off shore ones would.

I would be happy with closing all the wink, wink, nudge, nudge tax loopholes and the wealthy paying a fair portion of their wealth in taxes, not more as a percentage wise than your average middle income worker, but certainly not less.

[TheDemonLord]

I'm assuming this will morph into some sort of gotcha, but I "guess" I would find that more palatable. The word wild is apt, as I cannot see the wealthy agreeing to it, as it would be great for the country (I think) but quite restrictive for them in terms of investment opportunities in NZ that would return as much, or more to them than off shore ones would.

I would be happy with closing all the wink, wink, nudge, nudge tax loopholes and the wealthy paying a fair portion of their wealth in taxes, not more as a percentage wise than your average middle income worker, but certainly not less.

Nah, No Gotcha - More like - I have been looking at some history recently - and I notice a lot of:

"Person So-and-so donated this Building to the people of the Town".

I think we, as a society, lost something or missed something when we used to have wealthy individuals regularly doing little things here and there to improve the lives of the community they live in.

It is not a fully fleshed out idea, as I said - a Wild Hypothetical. I also think that gratitude and being able to see the good that your Taxes are doing would make paying it less painful.

[sugilite]

Nah, No Gotcha - More like - I have been looking at some history recently - and I notice a lot of:

"Person So-and-so donated this Building to the people of the Town".

I think we, as a society, lost something or missed something when we used to have wealthy individuals regularly doing little things here and there to improve the lives of the community they live in.

It is not a fully fleshed out idea, as I said - a Wild Hypothetical. I also think that gratitude and being able to see the good that your Taxes are doing would make paying it less painful.

Great point, now I think about it, that sort of altruistic behavior did go on back in the day. I feel these modern day lots would only donate earthquake risk buildings. :rolleyes:
I like where your thinking is going with this one, and yes, I would agree that gratitude and a feel good factor of seeing tax dollars being used in the betterment of society as a whole is a most worthy and noble endeavor. Do carry on and get back to us with any expanded updates :yes: