Charging system - GSXR1000 K2

[onearmedbandit]

A couple weeks back my charging system failed leaving me stranded. 3 jump starts later I was able to get back on the battery powering the bike. I charged the battery and started the bike and observed no increase in voltage over the battery, so I replaced the reg/rec with one from my K1. Checked again and it was showing 13.5v at idle. All seemed fine.

Until the same thing happened yesterday. With the bike off I'm seeing 12.6 at the battery (after charging it - it was at 12.9 in the morning), and idle it is showing around 13.3-5. Bringing the revs up though shows a drop in voltage to around 12.4v. I did put the original reg/rec back on but at idle it just showed the same as with the ignition turned on (around 12.4).

Any ideas from anyone as to what might be going on or what I should check? It's difficult to operate a multimeter with one hand but I checked for continuity at the stator plug and there was none (as there shouldn't be) and there does show to be resistance across the pairs of wires coming from the stator. The only thing I can't check is output when the bike is running.

[pete376403]

If anything like the GS stators, you should be reading AC voltage between any two connectors of the stator with the reg/rec disconnected. The GS service manual says at least 80Volts AC between any two wires.

[onearmedbandit]

If anything like the GS stators, you should be reading AC voltage between any two connectors of the stator with the reg/rec disconnected. The GS service manual says at least 80Volts AC between any two wires.

Cheers Pete. Yup checked that this afternoon, Suzuki suggest 65v at the minimum and up to 85v being normal and she was sitting around the mid 70's so I'm happy with that. I also tested both rec/regs and both returned similar and to be expected numbers. However, a closer look at the rec/reg plug shows some excessive heat, possibly due to corroded or loose connections. So I'll find someone better suited than myself to wire new plugs in and see how that gets me.

[F5 Dave]

As he sez, but you've burnt the stator by the sounds. It happens eventually. It will come out black.

So it can't produce enough current with degraded charging coils. The reg is next in the chain, but the damage is already done.
Typically it would generate say 14.5V when you Rev to 3000rpm. If it drops you are running on faith.

Edit, just read above. Often bikes burn the plug from alternator. This can be from bad connections but can be a symptom of combined issues. Don't be afraid to go bare wires (ie, remove plug ) and crimp plus heatshrink. But use bare good crimps. Preinsulated autostore stuff is the work of the devil.

Hmm, still suspicious about stator under load. More revs, more drain on ignition.

[SaferRides]

The voltage dropping with increasing revs is typical of a failed reg/rec, but do make sure the connectors are good first.

If you have the same voltage across each pair of wires and they are also open circuit, then the stator should be OK. Stators can fail if the reg/rec goes bad.

It can be worth upgrading to a MOSFET reg/rec if you're going to keep the bike. I did that on the R1 after the reg/rec failed, and it really improved the charging system. The battery is 9 years old and still going strong!

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[husaberg]

Not sure re the modern ones but old Suzukis with duff stators used to have a smell all their own.
It is a smell that once you have been exposed to, you never forget.
I thought they would have left this behind with liquid cooling.

[onearmedbandit]

The voltage dropping with increasing revs is typical of a failed reg/rec, but do make sure the connectors are good first.

If you have the same voltage across each pair of wires and they are also open circuit, then the stator should be OK. Stators can fail if the reg/rec goes bad.

It can be worth upgrading to a MOSFET reg/rec if you're going to keep the bike. I did that on the R1 after the reg/rec failed, and it really improved the charging system. The battery is 9 years old and still going strong!

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Yup seriously considering that as an option. A good friend put me onto these kits.

http://roadstercycle.com/

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.html

[SaferRides]

Yup seriously considering that as an option. A good friend put me onto these kits.

http://roadstercycle.com/

https://www.easternbeaver.com/Main/Elec__Products/Connectors/R-R_Connectors/r-r_connectors.htmlRoadstercycle has been around for a while. I fitted a FH020AA but the replacement for your bike may be different.

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[F5 Dave]

I fitted a SH847 like he is selling probably 8 yrs ago to my 675. DL1000 fitment. But usually they (rec regs ) fail by losing their regulation so overvoltage. That's the bit that produces heat as they are plain shunt regulators and use all the excess charge up by heating themselves plus the stator coils. Which is why they live in oil and the regs have fins. GN250 would burn stators when run low on oil.

The rectification doesn't usually fail (changing ac to battery friendly dc), if you look at rectification diode modules, they aren't that big or get that hot.

I'd get stator hot and then test it under load for ac. Quite often electrical coils go to failure mode when hot but present as OK when cold.

847 supposed to be a wave chopping regulator which should lessen load on both stator and module. I tried to measure the sidecover that the stator is bolted to, same ride before and after fitting 847 and laser pointer thermometer. Measured something like 20*C difference which considering sidecover is bathed in oil attached to an engine, seems like a reasonably indicative test for a layperson.

[onearmedbandit]

I'd get stator hot and then test it under load for ac. Quite often electrical coils go to failure mode when hot but present as OK when cold.



That's good to know, I'll test that this weekend. Either way I'll need to change the 5 pin plug (stator side not the rec/reg side) as it's suffered a bit from excessive heat but that may not solve what caused the issue so everything needs to be checked.

I appreciate all the advice so far.

[pete376403]

On both my GS1100s Ive relocated the reg/rec to up under the steering head where it wil get a proper blast of cold air. Like where the old brit bikes used to have the zener diode located. Can't hurt and might help. THat and proper conenctions and keeping the oil level up.

[onearmedbandit]

Suzuki farked up with the 06/07 600 and 750 and stuck it behind the radiator...

The position on my bike doesn't seem to be an issue as it's not a common fault. However it is now a 22yr old bike but at a relative young mileage of 80500km (I got it at 11000km), still age and electronics are not the best bed buddies. Still, something to consider.

[jellywrestler]

A couple weeks back my charging system failed leaving me stranded. 3 jump starts later I was able to get back on the battery powering the bike. I charged the battery and started the bike and observed no increase in voltage over the battery, so I replaced the reg/rec with one from my K1. Checked again and it was showing 13.5v at idle. All seemed fine.

Until the same thing happened yesterday. With the bike off I'm seeing 12.6 at the battery (after charging it - it was at 12.9 in the morning), and idle it is showing around 13.3-5. Bringing the revs up though shows a drop in voltage to around 12.4v. I did put the original reg/rec back on but at idle it just showed the same as with the ignition turned on (around 12.4).

Any ideas from anyone as to what might be going on or what I should check? It's difficult to operate a multimeter with one hand but I checked for continuity at the stator plug and there was none (as there shouldn't be) and there does show to be resistance across the pairs of wires coming from the stator. The only thing I can't check is output when the bike is running.

i'm a sparky, you can get clips to operate the meter with no hands.

[pete376403]

The good MOSFET R/Rs are made by Shindengen. There are heaps of chinese fakes on Amazon and AlilExpress, the opinion is if its around $US50 its going to be a fake. eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYxtCC330Xg

I have a Shindengen SH532-12 (shunt, not MOSFET) on the 1100G, not sure what it came off but it is genuine.

[F5 Dave]

As I said I favour cutting the plug right out. The 3 yellow wires can go in any orientation . I cut the bullets off Japanese type bullet connectors and just use the crimp part with folding type crimp so like figure8 almost. Or you can order same thing double sided, for wire splicing but not common here. As I said, but worth repeating, preinsulated is trash and use a single prong punch for iffy connection.

You'll then get the odd zealot chip in and insist that solder is the best joint, which electrically it is, but not used much on automotive loom as the twist and flex plus subjected to vibration.

[onearmedbandit]

i'm a sparky, you can get clips to operate the meter with no hands.

Excellent suggestion, I shall go find myself a set of these!


The good MOSFET R/Rs are made by Shindengen. There are heaps of chinese fakes on Amazon and AlilExpress, the opinion is if its around $US50 its going to be a fake. eg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYxtCC330Xg

I have a Shindengen SH532-12 (shunt, not MOSFET) on the 1100G, not sure what it came off but it is genuine.

Yeah if I end up replacing the reg/rec I definitely will not be going the cheap path. I've seen too many stories of people frying ecu's doing that,


As I said I favour cutting the plug right out. The 3 yellow wires can go in any orientation . I cut the bullets off Japanese type bullet connectors and just use the crimp part with folding type crimp so like figure8 almost. Or you can order same thing double sided, for wire splicing but not common here. As I said, but worth repeating, preinsulated is trash and use a single prong punch for iffy connection.

You'll then get the odd zealot chip in and insist that solder is the best joint, which electrically it is, but not used much on automotive loom as the twist and flex plus subjected to vibration.

Doing away with the plug makes sense, but I want to be able to disconnect it if I find the plug wasn't the issue. Yeah I could just cut it again I guess. A friend and I were discussing the lack of soldering on factory looms and he pointed out that they were the best electrical connection but suffer due to vibration etc on a vehicle.

[SaferRides]

The wiring kit that came with new reg/rec included butt type crimp connectors inside heatshrink for the stator connections. Theyve done the job well for nearly 10 years now.

I have a ratchet type crimp tool that came with 6 interchangeable dies. It does a very nice job and I wish I'd bought it years ago.

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[F5 Dave]

I've bought two different ratchet type tools from far east but they never seem to work properly on my crimps so I keep going back to plain tool. Bit like this one, note the jaws, folds the tangs in like a sideways 8.
https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/crimp-tools/2676869?cm_mmc=NZ-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_NZ_Pmax_Low_1223-_--_-&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpYdJOXUcsDSditujecI F_yTAlsYjuYGb6o3CV_wvG_Xz3ynaXPa_jkaAsL9EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[SaferRides]

I've bought two different ratchet type tools from far east but they never seem to work properly on my crimps so I keep going back to plain tool. Bit like this one, note the jaws, folds the tangs in like a sideways 8.
https://nz.rs-online.com/web/p/crimp-tools/2676869?cm_mmc=NZ-PLA-DS3A-_-google-_-PLA_NZ_Pmax_Low_1223-_--_-&matchtype=&&gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwwMqvBhCtARIsAIXsZpYdJOXUcsDSditujecI F_yTAlsYjuYGb6o3CV_wvG_Xz3ynaXPa_jkaAsL9EALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

I've had the same experience, so I bought this Toptul kit. It actually does a decent job of insulated terminals! Like most things, it is much more expensive than when I bought on special 3 years ago.

The one from RS looks good for the price.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240314/165316e275f456ab75efbc03cd295fce.jpg

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[F5 Dave]

Work has several ratcheting tools but sadly not what I need if doing a project. My manual one has been used to rewire a project bike and several race bikes, but I always wanted a ratcheting one.

On the plus side I've saved quite a bit of money buying these two Aliexpress tools rather than an expensive one. I mean, if they worked properly I'd still be ahead wouldn't I?:scratch:

I'm only about $80 in. Maybe the 3rd one will so multliblocks and the 4th larger Bullets?

[SaferRides]

I've just replaced a "temporary" earth cable on the R1. A couple of crimps done with the Toptul crimper - the wire was a bit small for the insulated connector but there are no red lugs in the box.

The photos aren't very sharp unfortunately.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240330/9d40a282020ee1b16aefe52658c53a3c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240330/b8f72e4e799b83c9caed00e7d6ec9023.jpg

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[F5 Dave]

Ooh. I have to be honest. Preinsulated is the work of Satan himself.
Just sayin.

[onearmedbandit]

Update. Wired the plug from my other GSXR into the Lucky Strike bike and all back to normal. Between 13.8-14.4 at idle, around 14.5 at 5000rpm (manual says between 14-15v). An update is still planned.

[SaferRides]

Ooh. I have to be honest. Preinsulated is the work of Satan himself.
Just sayin.
I agree, but it's a solid crimp with the end of the insulated tube compressed onto the wire as strain relief. It will do until I can sort out an earth from the front loom back to the battery.

I need a better selection of crimp connectors. Maybe AliExpress? [emoji1]

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