LPG vs natural gas supply to house

[pete376403]

Anyone have or had a house which was previously on natural (piped) gas supply converted to bottled LPG? We only have two gas appliances, an infinity water heater and a stove top (oven is still electric). Electricity supplier is suggesting we could save by converting back to electric, but there is the cost of a new oven (at least $5k for an equivalent to what we have now) and finding somewhere in the house for a hot water cylinder so thats not going to happen

Gas bill is around 45 - 50 per month, most of which is the connection charge. I understand there is a conversion required, both an LPG burner for the Infinity, and jets for the stove top and of course the pipework changes between where the exisiting gas meter connects to the house and where the LPG bottles would be located, but other than that, what is the downside? 2 x45Kg LPG bottles could keep us going for quite a while.

[mashman]

We had a house disconnected from the mains and converted to LPG (no gas to site) a few years ago. Gas hob and water heater. 5 showering each day or two and cooking every night. $140 per bottle using a bottle every 5 to 6 weeks. From memory, slightly more expensive than mains, even without the daily charge, but not so much that the financial controller is constantly seeking a better deal. The conversion was pretty straight forwards (relatively old infinity). Not recommended for central heating purposes being about the only real downside that I found at the time. Can't remember the cost of installation, but wasn't a bank breaker. Have fun dear.

[pete376403]

sounds good, thanks

[roogazza]

I changed houses over a year ago. The Last one was Rural and had Infinity hot water and gas Hobs.
We used a big Cyl ever 3 months with basically just the two of us.
New house is full Electric.

But have a mate who lives alone .He had the gas disconnected , (heating was updated to heat pumps.)
He also has gas hobs but uses a small gas cyl under the bench ???? (don't know how legal that is ?

[jellywrestler]

Anyone have or had a house which was previously on natural (piped) gas supply converted to bottled LPG? We only have two gas appliances, an infinity water heater and a stove top (oven is still electric). Electricity supplier is suggesting we could save by converting back to electric, but there is the cost of a new oven (at least $5k for an equivalent to what we have now) and finding somewhere in the house for a hot water cylinder so thats not going to happen

Gas bill is around 45 - 50 per month, most of which is the connection charge. I understand there is a conversion required, both an LPG burner for the Infinity, and jets for the stove top and of course the pipework changes between where the exisiting gas meter connects to the house and where the LPG bottles would be located, but other than that, what is the downside? 2 x45Kg LPG bottles could keep us going for quite a while.

make sure your mains could handle an electric stove, there are a few houses around on gas that simply dont have mains capacity, if you can fit two gas bottles outside there's a good chance you can fit a hot water cylinder too

[pete376403]

I changed houses over a year ago. The Last one was Rural and had Infinity hot water and gas Hobs.
We used a big Cyl ever 3 months with basically just the two of us.
New house is full Electric.

But have a mate who lives alone .He had the gas disconnected , (heating was updated to heat pumps.)
He also has gas hobs but uses a small gas cyl under the bench ???? (don't know how legal that is ?

I also have a rural friend who has the same arrangement witha 9kg cylinder. Should be legal enough, you can have portable gas heaters with bottle used in the house. OTOH he is not going to ask anyone in authority about it, either. likewise the somewhat dodgy three phase supply to the sheds. Typical electrician

[husaberg]

I also have a rural friend who has the same arrangement witha 9kg cylinder. Should be legal enough, you can have portable gas heaters with bottle used in the house. OTOH he is not going to ask anyone in authority about it, either. likewise the somewhat dodgy three phase supply to the sheds. Typical electrician

A guy i worked with was refused a code of compliance with a gas cylinder under the bench. Something about it having to be outside, each area might have different rules , Also this was 10 years ago though.

[R650R]

Stay on gas as long as you can. Electricity prices in this country are only going to keep going up as demand (population) increases and infrastructure ages.
Also increasing risk of blackouts to network.
If your going to stay in same property long term a heatpump hot water cylinder can be put outside house but is higher initial cost.

If your retired or semi retired and daytime user id disconnect the electric grid and go solar/battery bank and keep the gas. Electric line charges are shocking

[pete376403]

Already got solar (12 panels, 6.25KwH battery), grid tied. (daily supply charge sucks with electricity, too), 2 heat pumps and a wood burner The gas is only or water heating and cooktop. The currently unoccupied self contained flat out the back also has its own heat pump and an LPG infinity using a barbeque size bottle.

I am retired and this is the house I'm going to be carried out of

[pete376403]

make sure your mains could handle an electric stove, there are a few houses around on gas that simply dont have mains capacity, if you can fit two gas bottles outside there's a good chance you can fit a hot water cylinder too

House (1950s) was originally all electric, gas connected about 20 years ago when it was cheap, I'd thought of having the two gas cylinders out the front of the hose under the carport, next to the solar battery/controller cabinet. All the hot water connections (kitchen/bathroom/laundry) are around the back of the house. /Could put a heat pump HWC out there but they are expensive

[jellywrestler]

House (1950s) was originally all electric, gas connected about 20 years ago when it was cheap, I'd thought of having the two gas cylinders out the front of the hose under the carport, next to the solar battery/controller cabinet. All the hot water connections (kitchen/bathroom/laundry) are around the back of the house. /Could put a heat pump HWC out there but they are expensive

there's several outdoor hw tanks on the market these days

[HenryDorsetCase]

a gas cylinder under the bench did meet the regs when we did ours in about 2003. The regs subsequently changed (round 2006 I think). reason for the change is that if the cylinder leaks the gas is heavier than air and it might get trapped in a cupboard or whatever and ignited by a spark. So, now you have to have even a small gas cylinder outside and it has to have certain distances and clearances from windows etc. We've kept our underbench and upgraded literally every other appliance in the kitchen but I like to cook with gas so as long as it goes, it stays put. The underbench is only a 4.5kg bottle but it lasts us (two person household) 6 to 8 weeks.

Heres install info: https://media.genesisenergy.co.nz/genesis/faqs/bottled-gas-installation-delivery-checklist-genesis.pdf

Oh, and you must have <100kg in one install for domestic otherwise you are commercial - from memory it becomes a specified system and you need a BWOF or BWOF equivalent. That could have changed - its been a long time since I had to look it up. Any gasfitters in da house?

[HenryDorsetCase]

there's several outdoor hw tanks on the market these days My neighbours got one. I'd totally get one when replacing the one we have.

[jellywrestler]

My neighbours got one. I'd totally get one when replacing the one we have.

we swapped our nearly 60 year tank recently in the same spot, pain not having a warm hot water cupboard now, especially for the cats, they enjoyed the free heat

[SaferRides]

Anyone have or had a house which was previously on natural (piped) gas supply converted to bottled LPG? We only have two gas appliances, an infinity water heater and a stove top (oven is still electric). Electricity supplier is suggesting we could save by converting back to electric, but there is the cost of a new oven (at least $5k for an equivalent to what we have now) and finding somewhere in the house for a hot water cylinder so thats not going to happen

Gas bill is around 45 - 50 per month, most of which is the connection charge. I understand there is a conversion required, both an LPG burner for the Infinity, and jets for the stove top and of course the pipework changes between where the exisiting gas meter connects to the house and where the LPG bottles would be located, but other than that, what is the downside? 2 x45Kg LPG bottles could keep us going for quite a while.It may depend where your gas supply enters the house, as the cylinders should be close to that. I doubt you'd save much though, as it will probably cost more than you'd expect to do the conversion.

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[roogazza]

I also have a rural friend who has the same arrangement witha 9kg cylinder. Should be legal enough, you can have portable gas heaters with bottle used in the house. OTOH he is not going to ask anyone in authority about it, either. likewise the somewhat dodgy three phase supply to the sheds. Typical electrician

You have to laugh (although maybe not ??). This mate lives Pram, has several commercial buildings as well and is probably worth maybe 6 to 8 Million !!!!! fuck me , talk about tight !!!!!!!

This is funny or sad ? when I pop down to visit him he'll reheat a plunger coffee from the night before !

[BMWST?]

what is the comparison in price of gas vs lpg. I suspect the comparison will be static as lpg is produced from natural gas. So the only difference in the long term will be supply charges vs bottle rental. Are they similar now?
I guess supply charges will trend up as the number of natural gas users go down.Then one day it will be no more. And the lpg will be imported.

[SaferRides]

Supply charges are more than cylinder rental.

Anyway, despite the government trying to turn back the clock, using gas as energy source in homes will need to decrease over the next decade, and this has already started. How many apartments have gas?

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[pete376403]

Seems no-one wants to make it easy to find the informaton. As far as I can tell, there is no bottle rental as such (45kg) but it is about $150 per fill and no doubt there is a rental built into that, plus there is an annual "service charge" . My current connection charge is variable but around $30 / month so approx $360 per year. The past 12 months gas bill in total (incl supply charge and any other fees thrown in) was $745, so if a single 45kg bottle lasted more than 2-1/2 months I should be ahead or at least breaking even - other than the conversion charges. will investigate further, thanks all for the comments

[HenryDorsetCase]

Seems no-one wants to make it easy to find the informaton. As far as I can tell, there is no bottle rental as such (45kg) but it is about $150 per fill and no doubt there is a rental built into that, plus there is an annual "service charge" . My current connection charge is variable but around $30 / month so approx $360 per year. The past 12 months gas bill in total (incl supply charge and any other fees thrown in) was $745, so if a single 45kg bottle lasted more than 2-1/2 months I should be ahead or at least breaking even - other than the conversion charges. will investigate further, thanks all for the comments

We have 2 x 45kg gas bottles that supply a space heater in one end of our house in addition to the 4.5kg bottle under the hob in the kitchen. The quote to extend the hardlines from the space heater install was enough to buy two induction hobs so I declined. We used to get billed for cylinder rental twice a year but as you say it is now built into their pricing. $150kg per bottle is right on the money. Its very expensive for space heating - we run through a 45kg a month in winter. In addition to our power bills doubling between, well now and end September-ish. A combination of "old house" and "I refuse to be cold". Fine while earning good money, less fine when retired.

[neels]

Seems no-one wants to make it easy to find the informaton. As far as I can tell, there is no bottle rental as such (45kg) but it is about $150 per fill and no doubt there is a rental built into that, plus there is an annual "service charge" . My current connection charge is variable but around $30 / month so approx $360 per year. The past 12 months gas bill in total (incl supply charge and any other fees thrown in) was $745, so if a single 45kg bottle lasted more than 2-1/2 months I should be ahead or at least breaking even - other than the conversion charges. will investigate further, thanks all for the comments
The latest update (ie price increase) from our power/gas supplier is that the bottle swap cost is increasing to $150, rental per bottle is I think still $6 per month.

We only have gas for a cooktop and gas fire which is used intermittently when we don't want a breeze across the kitchen bench from the heat pump, with that usage we get through a couple of bottles a year.

When our HWC dies it will probably stay where it is in the roof space and get replaced by an outdoor mains pressure cylinder.

[JimO]

House (1950s) was originally all electric, gas connected about 20 years ago when it was cheap, I'd thought of having the two gas cylinders out the front of the hose under the carport, next to the solar battery/controller cabinet. All the hot water connections (kitchen/bathroom/laundry) are around the back of the house. /Could put a heat pump HWC out there but they are expensive
i have bottles on one side and the hot water machine on the other, works fine

[pete376403]

Ive averaged my gas useage KwHs of the past 12 months - 180KwH /month. Over 12 months I've consumed 2168 KwH. LPG has a Kg/KwH equivalent of 13.6KwH/Kg SO theoretically a 45 Kg cylinder is worth 612 KwH, so at about 6KwH /day, 45Kg should last me around 100 days. 3.5 cylinders a year, $500 odd compared to the $750 currently.

The origin of my thoughts about changing came from the solar electricity supplier suggesting we should go all-electric, but with the cost of replacing the exisiting gas/electric range with its equivalent electric only (close to $10,000) and the the cost of a heat pump HWC (another $5000 or more) it aint gonna happen.