The Royal Commission Report

[TheDemonLord]

Link/ (https://www.covid19lessons.royalcommission.nz/reports-lessons-learned/main-report/)

713 pages, I am skim reading through it at the moment. I have seen some reporting on it already that seems contradictory:

Left-wing outlets are saying the report confirms Vaccine Mandates were needed.
Right-wing outlets are saying the report confirms Mandates did a lot of social harm.

I suspect that the jist of the report will be: Oops we went a bit far, but we are all friends now, right?

However, if anyone is feeling a few bouts of insomnia and wants some light reading - have at it - I will try and finish it over the course of the next few days and then probably rage at how no government ministers (or former ministers) are recommended to be tried for treason and sentenced accordingly, but then that is just me.

[neels]

I suspect that the jist of the report will be: Oops we went a bit far, but we are all friends now, right?

I suspect you might be right.

Reaction to the first lockdown was for the most part 'yeah, fair enough' as a counter to the possibility of a large death count, when there were still a lot of unknowns.

The subsequent vaccine and mask mandates were very divisive, open to debate on their effectiveness and necessity, and negatively impacted some people.

The next wave and resulting lockdown, stemming from lifting of travel restrictions despite advice that the outcome would be exactly as occurred, was less well received thanks to the loss of public goodwill. It certainly didn't help that all of the country had their freedom impacted for an extended period because people in Auckland wouldn't behave themselves and prolonged the outbreak, stemming from a dumb statement at the start that the rest of the country would be stuck at one level below even when there were no Covid cases where they were.

So yes, probably true that it went a bit far, people have long memories, and some are still dealing with the personal impact of it all, so not likely to be friends for a while yet.

[pete376403]

Nothing that the government did or enacted affected me adversely to any great degree and I am still alive so I am happy. Couldn't GAF about someone else's perceived infringement of personal liberties other than to note that, they too are still alive - which in some cases is quite unfortunate.

[TheDemonLord]

Nothing that the government did or enacted affected me adversely to any great degree and I am still alive so I am happy. Couldn't GAF about someone else's perceived infringement of personal liberties other than to note that, they too are still alive - which in some cases is quite unfortunate.

That line of argument is contingent on the infringement of your civil liberties having a direct impact on your still being alive.

It is the difference between someone kicking in your door, flooding your house and causing thousands of dollars worth of damage vs someone seeing your house is on fire, you still in it, kicking in your door, using water to put out the fire and as a by-product, causing thousands of dollars worth of damage.

The first lockdown (although I think was unecessary) - okay, given the information at the time could be justified, to a degree.

Everything after that was completely uneccessary and tyrannical.

[pete376403]

That line of argument is contingent on the infringement of your civil liberties having a direct impact on your still being alive.

It is the difference between someone kicking in your door, flooding your house and causing thousands of dollars worth of damage vs someone seeing your house is on fire, you still in it, kicking in your door, using water to put out the fire and as a by-product, causing thousands of dollars worth of damage.

The first lockdown (although I think was unecessary) - okay, given the information at the time could be justified, to a degree.

Everything after that was completely uneccessary and tyrannical.

There are plenty of examples of people who decided their liberties were more important than their survival. Hope they feel their death was worth something.

[Grumph]

There are plenty of examples of people who decided their liberties were more important than their survival. Hope they feel their death was worth something.

Quite. And were happy to expose the vulnerable as collateral damage to enforcing their personal liberties.

As one of the vulnerable -then and now - I was ofen surprised at the low levels of consideration I saw

If you accept that one of the primary duties of a government is to protect it's citizens from harm, then I see nothing wrong in what was done.

When this pandemic is compared to the influenza one post WW1, a hell of a lot of lives were saved this time round.
It could have been a lot worse.

And if the libertarians and anti-vaccers have their way, the next one will be very bad.

[HenryDorsetCase]

There are plenty of examples of people who decided their liberties were more important than their survival. Hope they feel their death was worth something.

I dont give a fuck about those selfish cunts. And usually they were people who would live through it, unfortunately. The thing that got to me was the fact they gave precisely zero fucks about anyone else - in particular to those who were vulnerable by age (babies, children, or elderly) or other infirmity.

No wonder it was seized on by the maggots and their ilk - their "ethos" (not sure it deserves that title) of "Fuck you, I got mine" fits perfectly.

Basically it is the death of the social contract.

[TheDemonLord]

Quite. And were happy to expose the vulnerable as collateral damage to enforcing their personal liberties.

As one of the vulnerable -then and now - I was ofen surprised at the low levels of consideration I saw

If you accept that one of the primary duties of a government is to protect it's citizens from harm, then I see nothing wrong in what was done.

When this pandemic is compared to the influenza one post WW1, a hell of a lot of lives were saved this time round.
It could have been a lot worse.

And if the libertarians and anti-vaccers have their way, the next one will be very bad.

So, how far does that primary duty go to protect from harm? Who defines the Harm?

Should we put every male from the ages of about 14 to 35 in isolation, afterall, that would *absolutely* protect a lot of people from harm (most murders, robberies, assaults, Rapes etc. etc.)

Of course, I am making an absolutely absurd proposal - however, from your philosophical position - how do you argue against it?

See, I view the primary role of Government is to protect the natural rights of the citizens. The right to bodily autonomy for example is the same right that means when someone throws a punch at you, you have grounds for a redress of grievance. Whether that be to throw one back and defend yourself or see them in court for a charge of assault.

And from that position, it would be absolutely reprehensible to imprison every male, because it would infringe upon their natural rights.

It is also the right that allows you to decline medical interventions. Prior to 2020 the notion that an entire cohort of Citizenry would be denied their natural rights over a choice to get a medical procedure would have been absolutely absurd.

You say happy to expose the Vulnerable - I don't recall ever walking into an Old Folks home and coughing on everyone. The issue here is the externalization of responsibility.

Consider this - You choose to Ride a Motorbike, you do so in the knowledge that you are exposing yourself to increased risk. In my world view, you can take steps to address the risk to a point you are comfortable with - you can wear safety gear, you can choose when and where you ride, you can choose whether to ride on public roads and you can choose not to ride at all.

Any individual making a choice to wear a mask or take the vaccine or do any N number of interventions to manage the risk for themselves is something I will always support.

But the moment you say: You have to do as I say because of the risk to me - see, that is where we get into problems. It would be the equivalent of saying I want to go for a ride on my Motorbike, so every car driver has to get off the road.

As for the comparison to the Spanish Flu - the accepted numbers at 500 million cases, 25-50 million deaths - that would make the fatility rate between 5-10%.

Covid, on the other hand had a mortality rate of 0.9% (776,840,500 cases, 7,075,455 deaths - source world in Data) - and that figure does not discriminate between the Died with Covid and died from Covid (as someone pointed out, quite famously on KB, got ridiculed by a bunch of people - only for the NZ Government to announce a week later that they were changing the way they report Covid Deaths - based on that very problem)

In short - it was a massive over-reaction and we are paying the price, still, for it.

[TheDemonLord]

I dont give a fuck about those selfish cunts. And usually they were people who would live through it, unfortunately. The thing that got to me was the fact they gave precisely zero fucks about anyone else - in particular to those who were vulnerable by age (babies, children, or elderly) or other infirmity.

No wonder it was seized on by the maggots and their ilk - their "ethos" (not sure it deserves that title) of "Fuck you, I got mine" fits perfectly.

Basically it is the death of the social contract.

Yeah, except Babies and Children weren't at risk from Covid. At all.

Who is more Selfish - the person who wishes to make a decision for their own health or the person who insists the entire world make a decisions for theirs?

[jellywrestler]

Quite. And were happy to expose the vulnerable as collateral damage to enforcing their personal liberties.

As one of the vulnerable -then and now - I was ofen surprised at the low levels of consideration I saw

.

i was at a bakery in lower hutt when there was actually illness around, two blue wearing patch members were inside heroically wearing no masks, they went outside to fist an old patch wearer and he tore them to pieces, he knew their older family and ripped them a new arsehole on their desire to infect them,

It wasn't an easy time at all, but who else in the world did it better by a margin of note?

[BMWST?]

The vaccine did not afford any protection to people around you. You could still catch covid and you could still pass it on,so that supposed benfit of the vaccine was actually a lie by ommision.Pfizer had not tested the vacciine for transmission. It was assumed that it would behave the same as all the tradional vaccines before. And some people were harmed by the vaccine itself. And may still be caused harm.The long term effects of the MRNA technology is unknown.We still have excess deaths worldwide .All the excess deaths should have occured during the pandemic

[Kickaha]

.All the excess deaths should have occured during the pandemic

Not if the lockdowns, masks, vaccine afforded some protection, once all that was past then nature was going to catch up on those that should have died during covid times

[Grumph]

"who defines the harm?"

The medical professionals paid for their expertise.

I'm yet to be convinced that anyone on here has any more than a laymans knowledge of medicine.

Accordingly, if the authorities wanted a lockdown to save lives - mine among them - fine with me.

[pete376403]

Yeah, except Babies and Children weren't at risk from Covid. At all.

Who is more Selfish - the person who wishes to make a decision for their own health or the person who insists the entire world make a decisions for theirs?

Wonder if you would still feel that way if one of your own children was immuno-compromised? Would you be willing to sacrifice your own child on the alter of "natural rights"?

And remember, this covid-rodeo isn't over yet. Something may happen within your family to present you with that actual choice.

[jellywrestler]

I'm yet to be convinced that anyone on here has any more than a laymans knowledge of medicine.

.

I've seen Warwick in a nurses uniform so does that mean he's got more knowledge?

[onearmedbandit]

Wonder if you would still feel that way if one of your own children was immuno-compromised? Would you be willing to sacrifice your own child on the alter of "natural rights"?

And remember, this covid-rodeo isn't over yet. Something may happen within your family to present you with that actual choice.

I know someone in that exact scenario. They didn't trust that masks and vaccines were enough regardless so took their own precautions, limiting their child's exposure to others. Their child is still healthy and well today.

[Berries]

I know someone in that exact scenario. They didn't trust that masks and vaccines were enough regardless so took their own precautions, limiting their child's exposure to others. Their child is still healthy and well today.
I am in that exact scenario and spent the first ten years of my daughters life keeping her away from runny noses and people coughing. All friends still know not to bother coming around if they have a cold because they will be told to fuck off. Shit, we even built a sleepout so we could quarantine her or one of the family if they had something that could affect her. She is 17 now and we have relaxed an awful lot over the last few years but we were totally anal during covid. Even the dog had a mask.

That last bit isn't true obviously, we had the dog put down because it would not use hand steriliser. But for the sake of my first born I did a lot of stuff during the covid days that I would not have normally done. Pretty sure I would not have got vaccinated if it wasn't for her because the Government telling me what is good for me is all a bit suss if you ask me, particularly when it comes to injecting shit into your body. But, knowing family friends who did die of respiratory problems during the covid days meant it was an easy decision to make.

Can't see the point of this report. Big fat waste of money.

[Kickaha]

I've seen Warwick in a nurses uniform so does that mean he's got more knowledge?

You said you wouldn't tell anyone about that

[R650R]

About six mins in Mike gets into the report. And like he says it’s pretty damning given the previous govt stacked the inquiry crew with their chosen faithful who were actually refreshingly honest in their conclusions.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXQHz5LeHM0

[R650R]

I dont give a fuck about those selfish cunts. And usually they were people who would live through it, unfortunately. The thing that got to me was the fact they gave precisely zero fucks about anyone else - in particular to those who were vulnerable by age (babies, children, or elderly) or other infirmity.

No wonder it was seized on by the maggots and their ilk - their "ethos" (not sure it deserves that title) of "Fuck you, I got mine" fits perfectly.

Basically it is the death of the social contract.

And what do you say to the majority who abandoned the protection layers the day the govt removed restrictions. Suddenly at the stroke of midnight the majority people no longer gave a damn about social distancing or masks and flocked to rock concerts, pubs, parties etc
Surely if people believed a large portion would have carried on wearing masks.
I just came back from overseas and our international airport is a complete joke and whatÂ’s worst the biggest offender was the MPI check area. We are cramped into an overcrowded hot humid hallway with poor ventilation queung for checkpoint.
The peoples who job it is to keep us safe donÂ’t even care, what does that tell you.

And even at the start of covid the govt didnÂ’t even believe in the protection measures they forced upon society. They slowly incrementally brought things in as they knew it was wrong to force it. Very few people wore masks until it was law.
Then thereÂ’s the sector of society that is obsessed with telling other people off that just thrived on telling other people what to do. There was a lot of them but you you wonÂ’t see them still wearing masks anymore even though all the experts say the next pandemic is just around the corner.

LetÂ’s not forget this virus was allegedly evolving into deadlier variants continuously (unlike normal viruses that mutate into weaker forms and die off) then like magic devolved into nothingness when we stopped all protection measures????

[R650R]

Nothing that the government did or enacted affected me adversely to any great degree and I am still alive so I am happy. Couldn't GAF about someone else's perceived infringement of personal liberties other than to note that, they too are still alive - which in some cases is quite unfortunate.

You must be very wealthy. The measures the govt took smashed many small businesses and the spraying of govt Money fuelled the fire of inflation to massively increase our cost of living. Post pandemic more vulnerable elderly people are prob dying early by not being able to afford a healthy diet or winter heating. Worldwide reduced access to heating is a proven early killer of elderly.

[TheDemonLord]

I know someone in that exact scenario. They didn't trust that masks and vaccines were enough regardless so took their own precautions, limiting their child's exposure to others. Their child is still healthy and well today.

People taking their own precautions for their own health.

This is something I will defend the right to do so - and it is absolutely the right way to do things.

[Grumph]

You must be very wealthy. The measures the govt took smashed many small businesses and the spraying of govt Money fuelled the fire of inflation to massively increase our cost of living. Post pandemic more vulnerable elderly people are prob dying early by not being able to afford a healthy diet or winter heating. Worldwide reduced access to heating is a proven early killer of elderly.

You're out of touch with pensioner facts. We get a winter heating supplement.

Well, we have the last few winters. God only knows what this cost cutting mob will do.

[pete376403]

You must be very wealthy. The measures the govt took smashed many small businesses and the spraying of govt Money fuelled the fire of inflation to massively increase our cost of living. Post pandemic more vulnerable elderly people are prob dying early by not being able to afford a healthy diet or winter heating. Worldwide reduced access to heating is a proven early killer of elderly.

Not at all. I was working in IT support on about $70k and also getting married couple superannuation. The company paid everyone at the reduce rate during the lockdowns, but not going anywhere much limited the unnecessary spending as well. We have solar power which took care of some of the bill, and a decent stack of firewood.

[R650R]

You're out of touch with pensioner facts. We get a winter heating supplement.

Well, we have the last few winters. God only knows what this cost cutting mob will do.

Well they’ve got inflation under control which hits poorest hardest.

Interest rates are dropping fast.

They are removing barriers to providing housing 60m2 no consents.

Roads are being improved to help economic activity.

Police have upped their game just incase you ain’t been reading news…

Ramraids are down


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0-mpc7dhU8

[pritch]

Broadly speaking the pandemic showed there were two main groups of people: those who care about life, and those who care about money. There were also a few keen to demonstrate that they would fail Darwin's fitness test.

[R650R]

Broadly speaking the pandemic showed there were two main groups of people: those who care about life, and those who care about money. There were also a few keen to demonstrate that they would fail Darwin's fitness test.

You can care about life while being economically responsible.


Year
World Population
Yearly
Change Net
Change Density
(P/Km²)
2024 8,161,972,572 0.87 % 70,237,642 55
2023 8,091,734,930 0.88 % 70,327,738 54
2022 8,021,407,192 0.84 % 66,958,801 54
2021 7,954,448,391 0.86 % 67,447,099 53
2020 7,887,001,292 0.97 % 75,707,594 53
2019 7,811,293,698 1.05 % 81,390,917 52
2018 7,729,902,781 1.10 % 84,284,827 52
2017 7,645,617,954 1.15 % 87,063,428 51
2016 7,558,554,526 1.18 % 88,062,654 51
2015 7,470,491,872 1.20 % 88,875,628 50
2014 7,381,616,244 1.23 % 89,822,659 50
2013 7,291,793,585 1.26 % 90,591,100 49
2012 7,201,202,485 1.27 % 90,278,720 48
2011 7,110,923,765 1.27 % 89,191,617 48
2010 7,021,732,148 1.28 % 88,965,732 47
2009 6,932,766,416 1.29 % 88,308,754 47
2008 6,844,457,662 1.29 % 87,148,881 46
2007 6,757,308,781 1.29 % 85,856,766 45
2006 6,671,452,015 1.28 % 84,481,883 45
2005 6,586,970,132 1.29 % 83,592,360 44
2004 6,503,377,772 1.29 % 83,016,138 44
2003 6,420,361,634 1.30 % 82,631,292 43
2002 6,337,730,342 1.32 % 82,793,883 43
2001 6,254,936,459 1.35 % 83,233,466 42
2000 6,171,702,993 1.36 % 82,696,654 41
1999 6,089,006,339 1.36 % 81,939,649 41
1998 6,007,066,690 1.39 % 82,278,874 40
1997 5,924,787,816 1.42 % 82,732,082 40
1996 5,842,055,734 1.44 % 83,176,752 39
1995 5,758,878,982 1.47 % 83,327,727 39
1994 5,675,551,255 1.50 % 84,006,458 38
1993 5,591,544,797 1.55 % 85,554,981 38
1992 5,505,989,816 1.61 % 87,253,925 37
1991 5,418,735,891 1.71 % 90,932,781 36
1990 5,327,803,110 1.78 % 93,371,378 36
1989 5,234,431,732 1.80 % 92,439,190 35
1988 5,141,992,542 1.83 % 92,246,145 35
1987 5,049,746,397 1.85 % 91,673,559 34
1986 4,958,072,838 1.83 % 89,129,373 33
1985 4,868,943,465 1.81 % 86,767,946 33
1984 4,782,175,519 1.81 % 84,847,946 32
1983 4,697,327,573 1.84 % 84,654,152 32
1982 4,612,673,421 1.85 % 83,896,115 31
1981 4,528,777,306 1.83 % 81,171,070 30
1980 4,447,606,236 1.81 % 79,066,708 30
1979 4,368,539,528 1.78 % 76,442,026 29
1978 4,292,097,502 1.76 % 74,233,706 29
1977 4,217,863,796 1.78 % 73,617,419 28
1976 4,144,246,377 1.81 % 73,511,100 28
1975 4,070,735,277 1.86 % 74,319,181 27
1974 3,996,416,096 1.93 % 75,611,054 27
1973 3,920,805,042 1.97 % 75,887,362 26
1972 3,844,917,680 1.99 % 75,069,815 26
1971 3,769,847,865 2.03 % 75,164,071 25
1970 3,694,683,794 2.08 % 75,192,215 25
1969 3,619,491,579 2.10 % 74,304,328 24
1968 3,545,187,251 2.07 % 71,774,371 24
1967 3,473,412,880 2.04 % 69,371,755 23
1966 3,404,041,125 2.08 % 69,507,422 23
1965 3,334,533,703 2.15 % 70,046,364 22
1964 3,264,487,339 2.25 % 71,679,511

[pritch]

About six mins in Mike gets into the report. And like he says it’s pretty damning given the previous govt stacked the inquiry crew with their chosen faithful who were actually refreshingly honest in their conclusions.


Pretty damning my arse. NZ had a world leading response. WTF did Laws expect? OK some people less equipped to deal with life's challenges felt inconvenienced. Tough. Other people couldn't travel quite as intended. Again tough. Millions of people died but some people here still don't get it.

There are currently three diseases threatening to break out into major epidemics: measles, whooping cough and bird flu. So Trump has appointed RFK Jr to head up health. Perhaps we should "seal the borders" to keep all the idiot Yanks inside? /s

[Berries]

2024 8,161,972,572 0.87 % 70,237,642 55
2023 8,091,734,930 0.88 % 70,327,738 54
2022 8,021,407,192 0.84 % 66,958,801 54
2021 7,954,448,391 0.86 % 67,447,099 53
2020 7,887,001,292 0.97 % 75,707,594 53
2019 7,811,293,698 1.05 % 81,390,917 52
2018 7,729,902,781 1.10 % 84,284,827 52
2017 7,645,617,954 1.15 % 87,063,428 51
2016 7,558,554,526 1.18 % 88,062,654 51
2015 7,470,491,872 1.20 % 88,875,628 50
2014 7,381,616,244 1.23 % 89,822,659 50
2013 7,291,793,585 1.26 % 90,591,100 49
2012 7,201,202,485 1.27 % 90,278,720 48
2011 7,110,923,765 1.27 % 89,191,617 48
2010 7,021,732,148 1.28 % 88,965,732 47
2009 6,932,766,416 1.29 % 88,308,754 47
2008 6,844,457,662 1.29 % 87,148,881 46
2007 6,757,308,781 1.29 % 85,856,766 45
2006 6,671,452,015 1.28 % 84,481,883 45
2005 6,586,970,132 1.29 % 83,592,360 44
2004 6,503,377,772 1.29 % 83,016,138 44
2003 6,420,361,634 1.30 % 82,631,292 43
2002 6,337,730,342 1.32 % 82,793,883 43
2001 6,254,936,459 1.35 % 83,233,466 42
2000 6,171,702,993 1.36 % 82,696,654 41
1999 6,089,006,339 1.36 % 81,939,649 41
1998 6,007,066,690 1.39 % 82,278,874 40
1997 5,924,787,816 1.42 % 82,732,082 40
1996 5,842,055,734 1.44 % 83,176,752 39
1995 5,758,878,982 1.47 % 83,327,727 39
1994 5,675,551,255 1.50 % 84,006,458 38
1993 5,591,544,797 1.55 % 85,554,981 38
1992 5,505,989,816 1.61 % 87,253,925 37
1991 5,418,735,891 1.71 % 90,932,781 36
1990 5,327,803,110 1.78 % 93,371,378 36
1989 5,234,431,732 1.80 % 92,439,190 35
1988 5,141,992,542 1.83 % 92,246,145 35
1987 5,049,746,397 1.85 % 91,673,559 34
1986 4,958,072,838 1.83 % 89,129,373 33
1985 4,868,943,465 1.81 % 86,767,946 33
1984 4,782,175,519 1.81 % 84,847,946 32
1983 4,697,327,573 1.84 % 84,654,152 32
1982 4,612,673,421 1.85 % 83,896,115 31
1981 4,528,777,306 1.83 % 81,171,070 30
1980 4,447,606,236 1.81 % 79,066,708 30
1979 4,368,539,528 1.78 % 76,442,026 29
1978 4,292,097,502 1.76 % 74,233,706 29
1977 4,217,863,796 1.78 % 73,617,419 28
1976 4,144,246,377 1.81 % 73,511,100 28
1975 4,070,735,277 1.86 % 74,319,181 27
1974 3,996,416,096 1.93 % 75,611,054 27
1973 3,920,805,042 1.97 % 75,887,362 26
1972 3,844,917,680 1.99 % 75,069,815 26
1971 3,769,847,865 2.03 % 75,164,071 25
1970 3,694,683,794 2.08 % 75,192,215 25
1969 3,619,491,579 2.10 % 74,304,328 24
1968 3,545,187,251 2.07 % 71,774,371 24
1967 3,473,412,880 2.04 % 69,371,755 23
1966 3,404,041,125 2.08 % 69,507,422 23
1965 3,334,533,703 2.15 % 70,046,364 22
1964 3,264,487,339 2.25 % 71,679,511


Will you take the blue pill Leo, or will you take the red pill?

[TheDemonLord]

Pretty damning my arse. NZ had a world leading response.

The only reason NZ had a world leading response was because of factors that were outside of the Government control.

[pritch]

The only reason NZ had a world leading response was because of factors that were outside of the Government control.

That's not really valid. I understand that you'd rather die than say labour done good - but they did. Boris wouldn't stop air travel because of the economic damage. He delayed lockdowns way too long then when he couldn't delay any further the lockdowns had to be much longer. Brits liked to say it was because NZ is basically an island. Britain is basically an island. The difference was that Britain had stupid politicians in power. Remember when there was a new and dangerous variant in India but Boris delayed stopping travel from India because he wanted his scheduled meeting with Modi to take place? While Boris delayed over a hundred thousand potential virus cariers flew in to Britain from India.

[BMWST?]

Labour did do well in the beginning. But as more and more information became available as to where the real risks lay they continued with the complete isolation idea. Only when they knew it was pointless did they relax the rules. Much social and economic damage was done that could reasonably have been avoided with more informed actions.

[TheDemonLord]

That's not really valid. I understand that you'd rather die than say labour done good - but they did. Boris wouldn't stop air travel because of the economic damage. He delayed lockdowns way too long then when he couldn't delay any further the lockdowns had to be much longer. Brits liked to say it was because NZ is basically an island. Britain is basically an island. The difference was that Britain had stupid politicians in power. Remember when there was a new and dangerous variant in India but Boris delayed stopping travel from India because he wanted his scheduled meeting with Modi to take place? While Boris delayed over a hundred thousand potential virus cariers flew in to Britain from India.

Britain has rail links to Europe, you can cross into Britain via a Rubber Dinghy, a bit tricky to cross the Tasman sea in a home-made boat.

Britain also has Mass-Transit systems (like the Underground) and 15 times the population density (287 per square kilometre vs 20 per square kilometre).

If Labour had simply locked the border and done nothing else, I doubt we would have seen any significant changes.

As others have said, the initial response *may* have been justified (I maintain they were not) - the subsequent actions, second Lockdowns, Vaccine Mandates etc. were absolutely not justified - especially when the Data was available that for everyone not over 60 or with co-morbidities - Covid was little more than the Sniffles.

Its one saving grace being that Children were completely unaffected by Covid.

[Grumph]

Its one saving grace being that Children were completely unaffected by Covid.

You've posted that at least twice now. Not true.

Children got covid and according to a quick google, a lot are still suffering long Covid.

But I'm assuming your troll on this point is to make the response that many more are developmentally
slower due to the lockdowns and missed schooling. Which I'll concede.

But - again - without the lockdowns it would have been much worse. Better a term or so behind schedule than dead.
Ask a parent with school age kids....

[onearmedbandit]

But - again - without the lockdowns it would have been much worse. Better a term or so behind schedule than dead.
Ask a parent with school age kids....

All three of my children got covid more than once (and were vaccinated). There was never any threat of them dying from it, but the lock down caused major upheavals in my middle aged child's transition from primary to high school. It took a long time for her to find her feet again. Being a term or so behind in schedule had nothing to do with it. And she, nor any of her siblings or friends, had anything worse than flu like symptoms for a few days.

You said to ask a parent with school age kids, I'm just answering with my own personal experience.

[TheDemonLord]

You've posted that at least twice now. Not true.

Children got covid and according to a quick google, a lot are still suffering long Covid.

Sure, Children got it, however the number that died from it were exceptionally small. The data is a little mixed here - some sources put it 1 in 100,000 for Mortality rate, which is around the same as the Flu.

Now, to be fair, it does seem that for those under 1 years old, there was a higher risk - but School Age children were the least affected demographic when it comes to Covid.

And we have to put higher risk into context - when compared to diseases that historically were highly contagious (Measles, Pox etc.) - we see that those under 10 were some of the highest risk of death.


But I'm assuming your troll on this point is to make the response that many more are developmentally
slower due to the lockdowns and missed schooling. Which I'll concede.

But - again - without the lockdowns it would have been much worse. Better a term or so behind schedule than dead.
Ask a parent with school age kids....

Ask a parent of School Age Kids - okay - I asked my Wife (and I quote): What a fucking load of shit that was.

My experience was almost identical to OABs, my eldest was starting school, had just got settled into class, when the first Lockdown happened - It wasnt just setting back a term, it was pretty much set back a whole year.

To catch her up with school, I have had to pay for private tutoring (which is not cheap, I can assure you).

[SaferRides]

Some things were done well, some badly and being NZ, we muddled through somehow.
Sent from my SM-S906E using Tapatalk

[Berries]

My experience was almost identical to OABs, my eldest was starting school, had just got settled into class, when the first Lockdown happened - It wasnt just setting back a term, it was pretty much set back a whole year.
It?

Don't you like your eldest?

[TheDemonLord]

It?

Don't you like your eldest?

Hahahaha - It wasn't referring to my Kid in that context.

But to be honest, it is a struggle sometimes...

They take after their father faaaar too much for my liking... always arguing and think they know everything...

[Katman]

I dont give a fuck about those selfish cunts. And usually they were people who would live through it, unfortunately. The thing that got to me was the fact they gave precisely zero fucks about anyone else - in particular to those who were vulnerable by age (babies, children, or elderly) or other infirmity.

You do realise that the vaccine did nothing to stop transmission, don't you?