VFR800 vs VTR1000

[gav]

Anyone who has owned these, how do they stack up? Prob looking more at the VFR800 pre vtech, or is the vtech model worth the extra money?

[Sensei]

Go the VFR800 they win all the write ups & will corner bloody well . The VTR is still a great bike but not really to be compared to a VFR800 . Mate up here has just brought an 05 VFR800 had a TL before that but loves the VFR has offered a ride on it but haven't had a chance to go for one yet but plain on doing so , Have riden earlyer models of both bikes & would have to go with the VFR as the better all rounder . Happy trying & buying Gav

[badlieutenant]

Ask frosty re the vtech models. Ive heard stories but nothing first hand. If its like the reg/rec issue then there might be some truth in those stories.

[Zed]

Calling Vifferman!!! :mega:

VFR800's look much nicer with the full bellypan fairing and single sided swingarm IMO...

[zadok]

Australian Motorcycle News has a comprehensive write up on the VFR800. Sounds good.
"The new 2-stage valve control system, called 'V4 VTEC', is chain driven and aims to provide more torque through the lower and middle ranges by only utilising two valves in each cylinder until just over 7,000 rpm when the other two valves per cylinder also kick in to play. The bike responds with a distinct change in engine note and intake roar as all four valves come on song. Lower down in the rev ranges my seat of the pants felt only the slightest of improvements over the earlier non 'VTEC' model, but power seems a little stronger up top than before with a generous amount of over-rev."

"The new engine is noticeably quieter than the previous model. Gone is the characteristic whine from the gear driven cams in the 781cc V-Four engine. This is mainly due to the move to chain drive for the cams but also the reduction in noise from only having two valves per cylinder operating most of the time rather than four. The ultra smooth six-speed gearbox complements the sophisticated fuel-injected engine and the two work seamlessly together to provide reasonably strong drive at any road speed."
"I owned a pre 'VTEC' VFR 800 for a while and enjoyed over 20,000 kilometres on the model. When on a bike tour a couple of years ago I also covered around 4,500 kilometres on the earlier 750 model. The first generation 800 progressed more over to the role of dedicated tourer than the early 750 but this latest 'VTEC' 800 seems to have regained some more of the VFR's original sporting intentions."

[gav]

Calling Vifferman!!! :mega:

VFR800's look much nicer with the full bellypan fairing and single sided swingarm IMO...
You mean nicer than a VTR1000?

[Zed]

You mean nicer than a VTR1000?That I do.

[dangerous]

For you Gav... the VFR800 series1, more room for two up and gear. Thay have the V pull down low with the high reves of the muiltie.
The VTR would be more fun if riding the hills all day but we dont do that all the time here, and the VETEC... I wouldent think the extra money is worth it unles yu have it.... IMO I'd go for a nice series 1 VFR800 :niceone:

PS: a VFR must have a after market pipe, the sound is awesome :doobey:

[gav]

Even if its done 124,000kms? :whistle:

[Blackbird]

As Zed says - PM Vifferman - he's the Oracle when it comes to VFR's. The only negative thing I've heard about the VTEC version is the very high service charges when working on the top end of the motor.

[Lou Girardin]

Most owners don't seem to like the VTec. Unless set up perfectly it gives a 2 stroke-like step in the power band that can be annoying when cornering. Sound superb with aftermarket cans.
Otherwise, a great, if complicated, bike.

[awd]

I had a 99 VFR800 for 4 years when I lived in Italy. Awesome bike. A VTR was also on the shortlist when I was looking, but lost out to the all round capabilities of the VFR. The VFR is also a lot more comfortable over longer distances; done up to 1300km in a day, 2 up with luggage through the Alps and the Black Forest and neither of us was uncomfortable.

I can't say anything bad about the VTR, they're great bikes too, but for me the VFR is just that much better at most things for everyday riding. Also you won't run out of fuel like some others on this site have done on longer rides. :wait:

[TonyB]

Most owners don't seem to like the VTec. Unless set up perfectly it gives a 2 stroke-like step in the power band that can be annoying when cornering. Sound superb with aftermarket cans.
Otherwise, a great, if complicated, bike.
I have read this also- the Vtec-changeover-whats-it apparently kicks in a bit late, giving a big step in the power and a feeling of frustration knowing that the rider is missing out on significant grunt in the rev range before the V-Tec kicks in.

[Marmoot]

Forget both of them and get RVF750 instead. I heard they are quite nice :devil2:

VTR1000SP1 is quite nice too. :love:

[vifferman]

Calling Vifferman!!! :mega:

VFR800's look much nicer with the full bellypan fairing and single sided swingarm IMO...
You called? Waddayarwant?

Oh yeah.

I've owned both - currently have a 2001 VFR800, and had a VTR1000 before that. The VTR1000 was fun, much easier to work on if you do your own maintenance, but is 'old' (1997) technology.
I still miss it, but the VFR800 is a better all round bike, which is why I got it. It's slightly heavier, about the same power (delivered differently), but a better quality bike.
I had a choice of VTec vs. pre-Vtec, and chose not to get the VTec as it wasn't worth the extra money, despite the slightly better suspension and handling. The power output is identical, but the VTec delivers its via the complication of what is actually not a true VTec system, but simply a way to reduce noise and emissions output while adding extra servicing costs. Some people find the VTec 'kick' fun, but it's actually a slight drop in power before the extra valves are actuated, and I hated the noise it made, and the sometimes random way it kicked in (spluttered a few times, didn't work another time). I also HATE Honda camchains, as they've proven to not be very good at camchains and tensioners.

The 2006 VTec VFR800 has a modified ECU, which cuts the extra valves in at 6600 instead of 6850 rpm, and disengages them again at 6100rpm. This is to make the power delivery smoother and less annoying.

My answer? Buy a VFR rather than VTR, unless you like V-twins more.
Unless you like the underseat zorsts and styling of the >2002 VFRs so much you have to have one, then get a pre-2002 non-VTec VFR, and use the money you've saved to buy a HyperPro rear shock.

[vifferman]

The only negative thing I've heard about the VTEC version is the very high service charges when working on the top end of the motor.
Look on the VFR forums then - I'm on four of them. The VTec has had a few recalls (brakes, rear subframe, stator x2) and has garnered HEAPS of complaints for suffering from jerky throttle response, mysterious stalling, uneven power delivery, etc. etc.) Generally it's very reliable, but the VTec and the electronics associated with it have caused some headaches. But ask a Honda dealer and they'll deny all knowledge.
Other VFRs? The only potential problem is the R/R, and from 2000 onwards they had better ones fitted. In any case, an R/R is $300 to fix permanently, and R/R problems are common to MANY bikes, not just Hondas, but the near-fanaticism of VFR owners means it's been highlighted more. In fact, VTR R/Rs are worse than VFR ones, but you wouldn't know it...
I know of VFRs that have travelled over 500,000kms, so they're a fairly bulletproof motor. The gearboxes though are standard Honda fare, and can get clunky and full of false-neutrals if abused.

[Zapf]

as long as you don't mind SV650s out driving you out of corners then buy a VFR800 :whistle: :psst:

[vifferman]

"The new 2-stage valve control system, called 'V4 VTEC', is chain driven and aims to provide more torque through the lower and middle ranges by only utilising two valves in each cylinder until just over 7,000 rpm when the other two valves per cylinder also kick in to play."
Nup - torque curves for the two bikes are virtually identical.

The bike responds with a distinct change in engine note and intake roar as all four valves come on song."
WAAAAAAAAHHHHHH!!
No thanks...


"The new engine is noticeably quieter than the previous model. Gone is the characteristic whine from the gear driven cams in the 781cc V-Four engine. This is mainly due to the move to chain drive for the cams but also the reduction in noise from only having two valves per cylinder operating most of the time rather than four. "
Yup. This is almost the only reason for the VTec. Honda moved the gears for the camdrive from the centre of the camshafts to the right-hand end in 1998, and it made the engine much noisier. Sometimes (when the engine isn't under load, at moderate revs) the whining gets on my nerves, as it's quite loud.
Still, at least it doesn't sound like the lawnmower engine the SV650 is powered by. :Pokey:

[nudemetalz]

The VTEC engine went back to chains because they couldn't get the VTEC to adapt with the gears or sometihng like that.

That's always been a Honda bug-bear and a bit of a step backwards in my opinion (BTW I've owned a lot of Hondas and a number of them have had cam-chain and tensioner issues including my current VTR)

[vifferman]

The VTEC engine went back to chains because they couldn't get the VTEC to adapt with the gears or sometihng like that.
Nup.
It's just noise reduction, and Honda has said as much. All the hooplah about economy, more torque at low revs etc was just a weak attempt to placate the Vifferisti who love gear-driven cams.


That's always been a Honda bug-bear and a bit of a step backwards in my opinion (BTW I've owned a lot of Hondas and a number of them have had cam-chain and tensioner issues including my current VTR)
Yeah.
Even though my VTR had brand-new camchains and tensioners (and two valves), I bought a pair of APE tensioners and fitted 'em.
Camchain noise paranoia, y'know. :crazy:

[nudemetalz]

Ahh so it was only noise reduction. I should have read the press releases better !!
Thanks Vifferman

I like the aggressive look of the new VFR but why not make it a full 1000cc.
At 800 they're nearly there already and it would have more torque making the VTEC unnecessary. Just my opinion.

[vifferman]

I like the aggressive look of the new VFR but why not make it a full 1000cc.
At 800 they're nearly there already and it would have more torque making the VTEC unnecessary. Just my opinion.
No, not just your opinion.
There were a LOT of VFR fans waiting to see if the new (2006) VFR was going to be Bigger! Better! More Improved! Now With More Meat!
Alas, the changes were all cosmetic, apart from a change in the VTec operation to make it smoother.
It's the first time in the VFR's history that there wasn't an all-new model released four years after the previous major model (the 2002 VTec). Now VFR nuts are wondering whether Honda is holding off until the Blackbird replacement is released (if it's replacing both sports-tourers with one bike), or they're going to drop the VFR so they're not bothering to do any major upgrades.
One possibility is a 1200cc V5, based on the RC211V MotoGP bike, which won't be released until Honda are running an 800 in MotoGP (2007), as the MotoGP bikes aren't allowed to be related to road-going models.

Who knows - it's all speculation.
I'm quite happy with keeping the 2001 VFR and fixing stuff I'm not happy with. Next up: I'm trying a PowerCommander to see how it goes.

[nudemetalz]

Was your model was based loosely on the NR750 Style or is that just a coincidence?

[badlieutenant]

everything vifferman said :D oh and reg/rec issues can often be fixed with a small computer fan fitted to the heatsink to prevent over heating and failing thermaly :D

[Zapf]

lawnmower engine the SV650 is powered by. :Pokey:

:whistle: ermm... out driving viffers on my suki lawnmower... ermm me like lawnmowers.... :love:

[nudemetalz]

:whistle: ermm... out driving viffers on my suki lawnmower... ermm me like lawnmowers.... :love:

Would that be a "Briggs and Zuki" ? ;) j/k SV650's are groovy machines

[VeeFour]

I originally bought my 99 VFR800 for two up riding but then my girlfriend decided she was safer on her own bike.

I have only owned full on sports bikes in the past so I didn't think I'd keep the VFR for long. I was proved wrong. The greatest asset of the VFR800 is the superb handling whatever the road conditions. It has plenty of power everywhere in the rev range and sounds great with a K&N and Yoshi pipe. Some people describe VFR's as sedate and sensible but they are talking out their arse, wouldn't know a great bike if they fell over one.

I think viffers are much more refined than the VTR and are around the same money for the 98-2001 models. Two years on, and I still think its the best bike I've owned yet (however I don't like the looks of the Vtec model).

[Zapf]

Would that be a "Briggs and Zuki" ? ;) j/k SV650's are groovy machines

think I'll leave the driving part to keystone.... she's got the SV now :)

[avgas]

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm new sprint mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
or is this a honda thing?

[vtec]

There's no 'h' in vtec... And yes you want the VFR800. I mean I am biased, look at the username.

[vtec]

Ahh so it was only noise reduction. I should have read the press releases better !!
Thanks Vifferman

I like the aggressive look of the new VFR but why not make it a full 1000cc.
At 800 they're nearly there already and it would have more torque making the VTEC unnecessary. Just my opinion.

VTEC doesn't just improve low down torque. What it does, is get rid of the compromise between low end torque, or high end power that is in inherent in any cam that has one lobe for the whole rev range. Thus providing good power over the whole rev range. It also improves gas mileage. You might notice a boost in power in the form of a kick when the VTEC system kicks in. If this is the case, then you just need to change lower the kick in point of the system until it changes over smoothly. Although, I'm guessing this isn't a problem on the bikes. It's a noticeable kick in Prelude, as they set it at 5000rpm for emissions purposes in certain countries, but on a car that's too high, and you get a spike in the power curve, which could prove dangerous, I'm pretty sure they'd make the transition smooth on a motorbike though.

I don't think they'd put in a VTEC system if it didn't offer any power benefits through at least part of the power range.

In the case of my car. The non VTEC I think gets about 160HP and the VTEC version gets 200 HP, and up to 220 in some of the VTEC models. But they also include higher compression ratio's.

[Lou Girardin]

VTEC doesn't just improve low down torque. What it does, is get rid of the compromise between low end torque, or high end power that is in inherent in any cam that has one lobe for the whole rev range. Thus providing good power over the whole rev range. It also improves gas mileage. You might notice a boost in power in the form of a kick when the VTEC system kicks in. If this is the case, then you just need to change lower the kick in point of the system until it changes over smoothly. Although, I'm guessing this isn't a problem on the bikes. It's a noticeable kick in Prelude, as they set it at 5000rpm for emissions purposes in certain countries, but on a car that's too high, and you get a spike in the power curve, which could prove dangerous, I'm pretty sure they'd make the transition smooth on a motorbike though.

I don't think they'd put in a VTEC system if it didn't offer any power benefits through at least part of the power range.

In the case of my car. The non VTEC I think gets about 160HP and the VTEC version gets 200 HP, and up to 220 in some of the VTEC models. But they also include higher compression ratio's.


The bike VTec system is very different, and basic, compared to the cars. Plus what works in a car is not necessarily good on a bike. Bikes need much more subtle throttle response.
It sounds like the bike VTec is a typically complicated Honda answer to a simple problem.

[dangerous]

The bike VTec system is very different, and basic, compared to the cars.
True.... and if not already said heres how the VFR VTEC works
Under 7000rpm only 2 valves per cyl are working...... at 7000rpm oil pressure trigers the other 2 valves to operate.

Another words a 2 valve motor has more snot down low but will not rev out... were as a 4 valve motor lacks the down low but will rev out producing more power than a 2 valve.
The VFR has the best of both worlds..... I guess.

[gav]

Hmmm, interesting. I've previously owned 3 V4 Hondas and 1 V3 Honda, havent owned a V twin, wondering what the fuss is about. Oh well, wait and see what turns up. So anyone here got a pre vtec VFR800 for sale?

[Teflon]

Hmmm, interesting. I've previously owned 3 V4 Hondas and 1 V3 Honda, havent owned a V twin, wondering what the fuss is about. Oh well, wait and see what turns up. So anyone here got a pre vtec VFR800 for sale?

VFR and VTR would be boring compared to the CBR. I would take out a SP2 just to be sure.

[TonyB]

True.... and if not already said heres how the VFR VTEC works
Under 7000rpm only 2 valves per cyl are working...... at 7000rpm oil pressure trigers the other 2 valves to operate.

Another words a 2 valve motor has more snot down low but will not rev out... were as a 4 valve motor lacks the down low but will rev out producing more power than a 2 valve.
The VFR has the best of both worlds..... I guess.
The thing is, Suzuki have managed to get the best of both worlds from the GSXR1000 without resorting to complicated gadgets. When it's running right even my 16 year old FZR1000 can power wheely in 1st at 4000revs (as I have recently been reminded). Now thats a lot of weight to lift with a gear that can run to 120k's. I rekon Honda should stop pissing around and drop the vtec and go to 1000cc

[James Deuce]

VFR and VTR would be boring compared to the CBR. I would take out a SP2 just to be sure.

Do they put pillion seats on SPs now?? :)

[gav]

Looks like I've found one, 2001 Honda VFR800FI NZ New, One NZ owner, 26,000km, Remus high pipe, Metz Z4 tyres, tinted screen, :love: :headbang:

[Toast]

Between which years did the gear driven cams make an appearance on the VFRs?

...I'm a big fan of the gear driven sounds on the CBR250...I bet the VFR sounds awesome with them.

[gav]

I think 1986 to 2001, latest models have gone back to cam chains.

[dangerous]

Looks like I've found one, 2001 Honda VFR800FI NZ New, One NZ owner, 26,000km, Remus high pipe, Metz Z4 tyres, tinted screen, :love: :headbang:
No ya fat bastard..... not one of those slugs go for the twin...... :wait: na man that VFR looks bloody sweet, and I bet with that pipe on it it has the horniest sound :cool:
Is it a ChCh bike? awesome choice

[Lou Girardin]

VFR and VTR would be boring compared to the CBR. I would take out a SP2 just to be sure.

Even if he wants to do 500 km dayrides and 4000 km holiday touring two up?

[BarryG]

Well, I love my '95 750. But I loved my Hawk before that, slightly modded V2 in similar frame/ss arm to the VFR.
When it was time to buy something different, I was torn between the VFR and the VTR too, but found the 'right' VFR first. Fuel range in the twin is crap, and doesn't have the aesthetics of the VFR, but I'm sure I'd be happy with either (or both :niceone: ).
Cheers
Barry

[inlinefour]

Id got the modern vtech vfr800, rather a sexy beast :niceone:

[Swoop]

Australian Motorcycle News has a comprehensive write up on the VFR800. Sounds good.
"The new 2-stage valve control system, called 'V4 VTEC', is chain driven and aims to provide more torque through the lower and middle ranges by only utilising two valves in each cylinder until just over 7,000 rpm when the other two valves per cylinder also kick in to play. The bike responds with a distinct change in engine note and intake roar as all four valves come on song. Lower down in the rev ranges my seat of the pants felt only the slightest of improvements over the earlier non 'VTEC' model, but power seems a little stronger up top than before with a generous amount of over-rev."

"The new engine is noticeably quieter than the previous model. Gone is the characteristic whine from the gear driven cams in the 781cc V-Four engine. This is mainly due to the move to chain drive for the cams but also the reduction in noise from only having two valves per cylinder operating most of the time rather than four. The ultra smooth six-speed gearbox complements the sophisticated fuel-injected engine and the two work seamlessly together to provide reasonably strong drive at any road speed."
"I owned a pre 'VTEC' VFR 800 for a while and enjoyed over 20,000 kilometres on the model. When on a bike tour a couple of years ago I also covered around 4,500 kilometres on the earlier 750 model. The first generation 800 progressed more over to the role of dedicated tourer than the early 750 but this latest 'VTEC' 800 seems to have regained some more of the VFR's original sporting intentions."


6 speed gearbox.... Mmmmmm (serious drooling starts!)

[Macktheknife]

PS: a VFR must have a after market pipe, the sound is awesome :doobey:

If you were in the neibourhood I would suggest a ride on the one that Sarge has on the floor, after market pipe sounds very sexy.. I took it for a spin today and WOOOHOOO baby that is sweet! I also realised that I need to learn some more restraint before I go back to that kinda bike. It corners like a dream and goes like a raped ape! Shortly after I left the north western motorway a plain clothes car was seen doing some impressive speeds along there, couldnt be related though 'cause Im such a nana.
Tui anyone? :drinkup: :drinkup:

[Zed]

Looks like I've found one, 2001 Honda VFR800FI NZ New, One NZ owner, 26,000km, Remus high pipe, Metz Z4 tyres, tinted screen, :love: :headbang:A bit overdue here Gav, but I noticed a nice new shiney red bike in your sig so congrats on the new wheels man! Nice bike. :blip:

[Bonez]

I think 1986 to 2001, latest models have gone back to cam chains.Seems Honda have lost their way and forgotten a valuable lesson.

[gav]

A bit overdue here Gav, but I noticed a nice new shiney red bike in your sig so congrats on the new wheels man! Nice bike. :blip:
Actually todays the day I finally got the bike home!
Gav's Big Day Out! (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=19798)