I'm starting to lose hope...

[strayjuliet]

Wolf and I went to Hamilton Motorcycles on Saturday because Wolf wanted to take the new BMW F650GS Dakar for a test ride. While we were there we looked at a Suzuki GX125 as a good small bike for me to learn on. Well, looking at it, I thought I would be able to sit on it with no problem. However I climbed onto this mountain (it seemed like it) of a bike only to find that I'm standing on tip-toe like a ballerina. I am now starting to lose hope of ever finding a bike that I can sit with my feet flat on the ground and feel comfortable. :crybaby: my height is approx: 5'2"
Does anyone else have the same problem? If so, how did you overcome it?

[crashe]

awwwwww buggar, I should have let you sit on my Virago... when I was down there, when we meet. :spudwave: :spudwave:

You would be able to reach the ground no probs.... cos afterall, I am shorter than you. :rofl:

[Ixion]

Ms Crashe is (I believe) 2 inches shorter than you. I suspect she'll recommend the Virago.

EDIT. She did! I must have the gift of prophecy

[The_Dover]

I'm a big bastard but I seem to remember both the VTR250 and the GN/GZ250 feeling like they were designed for dwarfs, no offence meant.

Do you really feel you need both feet flat on the deck? Are you gonna let it hold you back?

Also have a look at a Honda Magna 250, big frame for a 250 but torquey little V-Twin and a really low seat height.

[crashe]

I'm a big bastard but I seem to remember both the VTR250 and the GN/GZ250 feeling like they were designed for dwarfs, no offence meant.

Do you really feel you need both feet flat on the deck? Are you gonna let it hold you back?

Also have a look at a Honda Magna 250, big frame for a 250 but torquey little V-Twin and a really low seat height.

I cant reach the ground on a GN250.. .
they are deceptively quite a lot taller than you would think they are.

I too like to have both feet on the ground when they bike is stationery.

[mstriumph]

:argh: damn - there's a whole thread on bike heights on here somewhere - was active shortly after i joined .. but i'm damned if i can find it ------ can anyone else supply a reference please?

[strayjuliet]

Likewise I can't reach the ground on a GN250. (they were made for a hobbit I think.)(dwarfs are shorter) I feel I need to have both feet on the ground as a more safer position for me. I think it's a confidence thing. Also I don't have very good balance as I am missing my big toe on my right foot - long story, lost it as a 3 year old on a push bike.

[Wolf]

:argh: damn - there's a whole thread on bike heights on here somewhere - was active shortly after i joined .. but i'm damned if i can find it ------ can anyone else supply a reference please?
Here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?t=13378&page=1&pp=15) - I resurrected it today...

[Wolf]

Ms Crashe is (I believe) 2 inches shorter than you. I suspect she'll recommend the Virago.

EDIT. She did! I must have the gift of prophecy
Immortal and a prophet - you're practically Biblical, Mr Ixion...

[T.W.R]

Try a CMX honda 250 rebel, or the GZ suzuki, and the yammy virago 250 their the lowest seat heights of all the 250s. all cruiser style though but thats the deal for low seats. kawasaki used to make a ER 250 vulcan(cruiser), dunno if its still in production ? it was a street hugger.
the VTR honda mentioned in a post is way out of the question it would be taller than the suzy you sat on. the lowest 250 sportbike would be maybe a SRX 250 yamaha or BR 250 kawasaki.

[jazbug5]

Or, of course, there is this (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/showthread.php?p=197524#post197524) thread.

Or this (http://www.nebcom.com/noemi/moto/sbl.sbl.html#cat3) link for 'short person' bikes (which I put on the thread above as well). I think the having your feet flat thing is going to be hard to do on most bikes- and really, isn't it just a confidence thing..? Not sure how the toe thing would change things, of course; but would a good solid boot not help with that?

[Indiana_Jones]

GN!!!!!!!!!! :D

-Indy

[Ixion]

Ms Strayjuliet is very welcome to try Li'l Ratty (SRX250) for size. As Mr T.W.R. says, it is one of the lowest non-cruiser bikes. Still nowhere as low as the Virago though, and probably not too useful since the odds of finding one are slim. The Kawasaki Eliminator has a VERY low seat, I think maybe lower than the Virago.

[Wolf]

Do you really feel you need both feet flat on the deck? Are you gonna let it hold you back?
After 24 years of riding experience, I finally learned I don't need to be limited by having both feet on the ground - courtesy of a great site aimed at short-arsed bikers and a bit of practical experience on a BMW F650GS Dakar (albeit with the optional low seat bench) - just goes to show how limited I have been for years owing to my own preconceptions and that you can teach an old canine new tricks...

Having both feet on the ground is a confidence issue. Strayjuliet is not an experienced rider - she used to have a little KR80 on which she used to blat around the yard when we lived at Tauwhare, but we sold that.

For ages I felt the need to be able to firmly ground both feet even though, in retrospect, I realise I normally only put one foot down these days - the whole "both feet grounded" thing had become a habit.

[Wolf]

Or this (http://www.nebcom.com/noemi/moto/sbl.sbl.html#cat3) link for 'short person' bikes
The SBL - a great site. The SBL FAQ (http://www.nebcom.com/noemi/moto/sbl.faq.html) is what I read that prompted me to rethink my "both feet on the ground" criterion.

[Karma]

Does anyone else have the same problem? If so, how did you overcome it?


Well at 6'4" I've never had that problem but from experience with an old schoofriend of mine there are three options;

1. Growth hormones - Grow a few extra inches, but due to the testostorone (sp?) in them you'll also grow facial hair and get a nice deep voice.

2. Leg splints - They break your legs and then pin them a few mm apart with metal rods... this means the bones grow back longer, but needs to be rebroken again and again every six months or so.

3. Live with it - Ask for help with reaching the top shelf of the cupboard, and get a Virago by the looks of it.

[James Deuce]

One thing you can do is get the seat foam re-shaped and the seat re-covered. You'd be surprised what narrowing the front of the seat can achieve, along with taking 5mm of foam off the top. Sometimes it's the spread of the seat, not the seat height that stops you from putting your feet down flat.

[Motu]

Yes,that's why dirt bikes aren't quite as bad to sit on as their seat height would lead you to beleive - a narrow bike with a narrow seat,a lower fat wide seat can almost be worse.

[SARGE]

Wolf and I went to Hamilton Motorcycles on Saturday because Wolf wanted to take the new BMW F650GS Dakar for a test ride. While we were there we looked at a Suzuki GX125 as a good small bike for me to learn on. Well, looking at it, I thought I would be able to sit on it with no problem. However I climbed onto this mountain (it seemed like it) of a bike only to find that I'm standing on tip-toe like a ballerina. I am now starting to lose hope of ever finding a bike that I can sit with my feet flat on the ground and feel comfortable. :crybaby: my height is approx: 5'2"
Does anyone else have the same problem? If so, how did you overcome it?


any bike shop woth its salt should be able to adjust the suspension ( on most bikes.. to a point).. if they cant .. Call Craig Brown over at Colemans.. he can whack it right down for you


another option is a Suzuki Volty 250

[Lou Girardin]

I wouldn't get too fixated on having to get both feet flat on the ground. I've seldom found a bike that I can do that on. One foot flat is usually fine, or even rocking from tip toe to tiptoe on a Ulysses is doable.

[Ixion]

Confidence thing though, for a learner. Especially as one foot means doing a switch from left foot down (cos right is on brake as you stop) to right foot down (to engage gear). Experienced riders switch without even noticing the fraction of a second when no foot is down. But it's a bit scarey for a learner.

Heretical suggestion - what about a scooter until some rod confidence is gained? They seem mush less scarey to learners.

[TLDV8]

There is no way i can flat foot the TLS with both feet ( the VeeTwo RHA raises the back even more).... i just slide off the seat to the right a tad,right flat foot,left on the peg..then you are free to use the front brake to hold the bike... take off is just clutch,click it into gear and ... BBBrrrappp off we go..that is probably worth a couple of inchs..

[Stevo]

A middle aged lady I met a month or two ago had platform soles on the bottom of her riding boots. She was on a early 90s ZX6R, Also had the seat re shaped and the the bike lowered a bit. I really didn't think she was that much shorter than me (maybe she wasn't), but must have had short legs or sumfink

[MSTRS]

Ms Strayjuliet is very welcome to try Li'l Ratty (SRX250) for size. As Mr T.W.R. says, it is one of the lowest non-cruiser bikes. Still nowhere as low as the Virago though, and probably not too useful since the odds of finding one are slim. The Kawasaki Eliminator has a VERY low seat, I think maybe lower than the Virago.
Oh yes...700mm as compared to my GSXR1100 at 830mm (low for a big sprotbike). Advantage of EL250 is they are one of the cheaper models around, and since they share the same engine as the GPX and maybe GPZ, spares if needed are plentiful.

[Wolf]

i just slide off the seat to the right a tad,right flat foot,left on the peg..then you are free to use the front brake to hold the bike... take off is just clutch,click it into gear and ... BBBrrrappp off we go..that is probably worth a couple of inchs..
That's what I was doing on the F650GS Dakar, I found I didn't have to slide too far to the right - my left buttock and part of my left thigh were still firmly on the seat.

Where Juliet and I differ is that I am used to sitting with one foot on the peg and swapping feet if need be (tried that with the F650 - quite different when you have to totally change position rather than just move your legs), Juliet is not.

I can understand her desire to not tackle too many things at once - learn all the basics of riding a bike unencumbered by the necessity of learning how to ground only one foot at a time. Once she's confident enough on a bike she can work on stopping with only one foot down, swapping feet etc and then progress to something taller when she needs a bigger, faster bike.

[heavenly.talker]

Hey

Totally get where you're coming from with the short leg thing myself.

I used a good pair of platform soles on my boots when I was starting and that gave my legs another couple of inches. Some knee high fashion boots have thick as souls (they don't last that long) but enough for you to get your confidence up.

I now have about an inch soul and find it sweet. Which reminds me...I have to pick up the re-soled other boots! cheers and good luck.

[heavenly.talker]

a narrow bike with a narrow seat,a lower fat wide seat can almost be worse.

Undoubtely...I have found in life that a wide fast seat is always less appealing than its sister who is tall and narrow!

:crybaby: :crybaby: :crybaby:

[strayjuliet]

Heretical suggestion - what about a scooter until some rod confidence is gained? They seem mush less scarey to learners.

A scooter would be alright, but Wolf doesn't like them very much and I'm not too keen on them myself, most cars around here (Hamilton) don't even bother to allow room for the poor person stuck in the cycle lane on a scooter. I would also like to have a bike that I can keep up with wolf on, once he gets himself another bike. I am not sure but I think on a scooter I would be limited as to what speed I can get up to.

[MSTRS]

.... I am not sure but I think on a scooter I would be limited as to what speed I can get up to.
Hey, we are all limited as to what speed we can get up to :devil2: :whistle:

[yungatart]

Juliet I'm not much taller than you (5'4"), I can sit on the Eliminator with both feet on the ground and my knees bent! She is a very friendly bike-just right for a nervous old Nana like me. Get one -they are absolutely perfect and as for keeping up with Wolf MSTRS has had mine up to 130 ks, no worries.It is also not too heavy(not that I've tried picking it up off the deck yet!)

[Pixie]

Likewise I can't reach the ground on a GN250. (they were made for a hobbit I think.)(dwarfs are shorter) I feel I need to have both feet on the ground as a more safer position for me. I think it's a confidence thing. Also I don't have very good balance as I am missing my big toe on my right foot - long story, lost it as a 3 year old on a push bike.
I was going to say that I'm on tippy toes on the bandit,and you get used to it.
But the missing toe would be a real problem

[Pixie]

You need a Gurney Alligator


http://www.allamericanracers.com/alligator/alligator_home.html

[Wolf]

You need a Gurney Alligator

http://www.allamericanracers.com/alligator/alligator_home.html
So who mated a sprots bike with a cruiser?

[Pixie]

So who mated a sprots bike with a cruiser?
Totally different beast
When Bike magazine tested one,they found it was 1sec faster in the quarter mile and had a higher top speed than any of the 600 sportbikes.
All from a 700cc single

[strayjuliet]

That Gator looks kinda cool. I think I've found the perfect bike for me. Kinda sad that I won't be able to start learning to ride on my dream bike, (an Indian Scout or Spirit.)

[WINJA]

DROP THE FORKS AND MAKE LONGER DOG BONES FOR THE REAR SHOCK LINKAGE OR GET A TR110 STREET MAGIC OR TR50 STREET MAGIC , YOU CAN TRY MINE ROUND THESE COUNTRY ROADS IF YOU WANT , BEWARE THE MAGIC IN NOT JUST A TOY

[Ixion]

A scooter would be alright, but Wolf doesn't like them very much and I'm not too keen on them myself, most cars around here (Hamilton) don't even bother to allow room for the poor person stuck in the cycle lane on a scooter. I would also like to have a bike that I can keep up with wolf on, once he gets himself another bike. I am not sure but I think on a scooter I would be limited as to what speed I can get up to.

Woz wrong with 160kph. They have big scooters y'know Burgman 650cc , Piaggio 500cc, kymco 500cc, bunch of 400s.

[WINJA]

Woz wrong with 160kph. They have big scooters y'know Burgman 650cc , Piaggio 500cc, kymco 500cc, bunch of 400s.
AND WHO MAKES THE DRAGSTAR THATS A FABULOUS BIKE WITH A GHEY NAME , SOUNDS LIKE A TRANSVESTITE KINDA NAME

[Waylander]

Got that Rebel down here if ya want to come have a sit on it. No handlebars at the moment though, havn't put them back on yet. It's about the same size as the Virago, roughly. Also, Waikato Yamaha has a 250 Virago at thier shop. Bit expensive but atleast you can sit on it to check size.

[Virago]

At a height of 4' 11 & 1/4", Mrs V is flat-footed sitting on a Virago 250. We pick hers up in under 3 hours :love:

[Beemer]

I'm 5'1" and have had three bikes I can handle in my lifetime - the mighty Suzuku RG150 (had the forks adjusted and the seat scooped out and then it was perfect!), the BMW F650CS - on tip toes but I can ride it, and now the Suzuki SG350 (Goose), which apart from the hard seat, is perfect for a shortie like me! I not only am short, I have short legs too, so I need a bike that is pretty narrow.

That's where the BMW falls down - it's quite wide and I don't feel as confident on tip toes. With the other two, I can get either my feet flat on the floor or at least the balls of my feet down on both sides - which I personally feel happier with.

Keep looking, there is a bike for you out there!

[magicfairy]

My 2cents. I am only 5ft 1. Female Got a V-Twin that I had to tippy toe (I have full license, but gained it on a scooter 20 years ago so am really just learning on "proper bikes")
I ended up dropping it a few times , getting caught out garages, dips in road. Confidence severly dented, felt nervous all the time riding and was seriously considering going back to a scooter. Bought a cruiser, Suzuki Savage (called s-40) and the difference was amazing. Which is very low and I can flat foot it.
Love riding now, not scared.
I know some people can tippy toe - but wasn't working for me at all. The right bike made a huge difference.

[Hitcher]

Mrs H (who is 5'2") got the soles of her biker boots built up by about an inch, in the old money. While she still fails to stand like a Colossus astride bikes, she now realises that a range of bikes, other than crusiers(TM), is now tantalisingly within reach (e.g. the SV650, Z750 and CB900), but for the fact that no dealer will make any effort to lower a bike for her to test ride. I often ponder how many motorcycles could be sold in New Zealand if dealers actually showed some enthusiasm, got off their arses, and made an effort...

[Keystone19]

Mrs H (who is 5'2") got the soles of her biker boots built up by about an inch, in the old money. While she still fails to stand like a Colossus astride bikes, she now realises that a range of bikes, other than crusiers(TM), is now tantalisingly within reach (e.g. the SV650, Z750 and CB900), but for the fact that no dealer will make any effort to lower a bike for her to test ride. I often ponder how many motorcycles could be sold in New Zealand if dealers actually showed some enthusiasm, got off their arses, and made an effort...

Yep, if motorcycle dealers got off their arses and had a look at catering more effectively to the lucrative female market, everybody would win. As it is, many motorcycle shops are dominated by those who consider motorcycling the last male bastion. If they know you personally then it's all good. If you walk in off the street and they don't know you, generally I find that although polite, I am rarely taken seriously.

Sorry, it's just that I've had some frustrating experiences. For example:

Me: 'my bike is leaking coolant'
Shop: 'oh, what colour is it?'
Me: 'duh, green, of course'
Shop: 'Are you sure it was green?'
Me: 'No, it might have been pink...'

So, I do find that I tend to shop at particular shops who are willing to go out of their way to cater to the female market. Good luck in your search for a shop that will help you find a suitable bike. I know quite a few SVs have been lowered - mine hasn't - but when I was looking at the second hand market there were a few.

:done:

[magicfairy]

Totally agree. That was my experience. Dealers weren't interested in helping before the purchase. I had a few that said "if you buy the bike, then I am sure we can try lower it, get some of the seat cut out..." but they expected me to buy first and then try and get it to fit later.
Although I am 5Ft 1" I have short legs, so it was like trying to find a bike for a dwarf. Even current scooters over 50cc, and 50cc vespas are too high for me.

[Ixion]

The odd thing is, most bikes are made in Asia. And the Asian market must be fairly important. And Asians are gnerally (massive generalisation, I know) not big people.

I can sort of understand BMW making bikes to fit big people. All those Herrengiantenvolken. But you'd think some of the manufacturers would have realised that there is a good market waiting to be tapped. But none of them seem the least interested in catering to shorter people (not necessarily just female)

Only thing I can conclude is that the American market dominates everything . And all USAians are 7 foot tall. And female riders are unknown the USA (actually, they do seem to be rare, at best). Is NZ unusual in it's percentage of female riders ? Or short riders ?
(Oddly, Alfa Romeo is the oppposite - the GTV is just about undrivable for anyone over 6 foot. And Alfa don't care - "Eet fetted Juan Manual Fangio perfectly - whoa you then toa theenka you better than Fangio. Eef you a wanta drivea the beeyutiful GTV , you gotta lossa da height. Choppa somfing off. " )

[Keystone19]

But you'd think some of the manufacturers would have realised that there is a good market waiting to be tapped. But none of them seem the least interested in catering to shorter people (not necessarily just female)

I agree with you to a certain extent Ixion, but the difference between short male riders and short female riders tends to be strength imho.

Physically males and females may be the same height but when it comes to holding a 200kg bike upright on tiptoes, it is not just height but strength. Being flat-footed on a heavier sprotsbike is definitely reassuring - at least initially. If the bike tips, it is far easier to balance when flat-footed. If you are tip-toed, you are more likely to require strength to rebalance rather than simply having to maintain balance.

[Motu]

In the sixties! Harley made a special edition low Sportster for short people....bikes were lower anyway back then,and yet they made a special low version for a very small market....looks like the plot was lost.

They got little hands
Little eyes
They walk around
Tellin' great big lies
They got little noses
And tiny little teeth
They wear platform shoes
On their nasty little feet

[Lou Girardin]

Harley still do lowering kits for various models.

[Ixion]

Which also raises teh interesting question - Why have bikes gotten taller and taller ? Everything about a bike calls for LOW - lower CoG, easier riding, less wind resistance. Yet they seem to get higher and higher. I can sort of understand it on off roaders, because of sump clearance. But why on road bikes ?

[Motu]

A modern trials bike sure isn't tall,and yet would have more ground clearance than an Enduro bike or MXr...and a seat height a knee cap level.

[Wolf]

Even current scooters over 50cc, and 50cc vespas are too high for me.
There was a new model Piaggio scooter at Hamilton Motorcycles and even that looked too tall in the seat for Juliet.

While on the topic, I'll clarify Juliet's earlier comment re scooters:

I do not dislike scooters. I even had two classic scooters - 1954 Zundapp Bella (150cc) and a 1966 Puch SR-150.

I just don't think many scooters would make an ideal "beginner's bike".

To me, a beginner's bike should be safe - good handling and road contact, good braking etc. Many of the smaller scooters lack these things - narrow tyres, brakes are an afterthought, not powerful enough to get you out of trouble.

[strayjuliet]

That being said mr Wolf if I was to buy a zundapp without you knowing, (not sure how I would manage that but I will work it out somehow) I am sure you would not complain if I let you ride it once in a while now would you?

[Beemer]

I agree with Wolf, scooters aren't exactly great for learning to ride on - I was given lessons on a scooter and didn't enjoy the experience at all! Nothing to do with your feet, and sitting bolt upright with your feet together felt unnatural. But having said that, I can't ride most scooters anyway, the seat heights are hideously tall.

Hitcher is right - why aren't the dealers realising the potential and lowering the odd bike to give shorter people an idea of what they could ride with a bit of modification? And why are bikes getting taller? I've seen many riders, and not all of them women either, having great trouble moving their bike forward a few feet when they are on it. And nothing dents the confidence like a topple at low (or no) speed - you feel an idiot and it hurts your pride as well as your bike!

I thought of having my boots built up but don't know of anyone who does it. Where did Jane get hers done Hitcher?

[WINJA]

Although I am 5Ft 1" I have short legs, so it was like trying to find a bike for a dwarf. Even current scooters over 50cc, and 50cc vespas are too high for me.
I HOPE YOU CAN REACH THE STOVE OK

[The Stranger]

And I just happen to know where there is a slightly used one for sale too

Here (http://www.kiwibiker.co.nz/forums/trader.php?do=showad&adid=368749&postid=368749&sellbuy=sell)

[strayjuliet]

I HOPE YOU CAN REACH THE STOVE OK

I'm sure most people have no difficulty with that Winja, as stoves come in many different sizes. Even sizes for the taller males to reach with ease lol. You should try giving Mrs Winja a night off cooking and test it out for yourself lmao. :devil2:

[Hitcher]

I thought of having my boots built up but don't know of anyone who does it. Where did Jane get hers done Hitcher?
Jane got hers done by a place in Marjoribanks Street (just around the corner from Wellington Motorcycles). She says she can't remember its name but there is only one place there that fits this description!

[Mental Trousers]

You only need 1 foot on the ground. Having 2 down means you don't have the same amount of control because you have divorced yourself from the bike, ie you're balanced and stable but you're no longer an integral part of the bike. May sound counterintuitive, but look at how many really good riders have 2 feet down at any time - you won't find many at all. Even tall riders don't put 2 feet down most of the time.

It's definitely possible. It's just a matter of confidence. If you don't have the confidence to ride a bike where you can plant 1 foot firmly on the ground, then you won't have the confidence to ride the bike properly either.

[Wolf]

It's definitely possible. It's just a matter of confidence. If you don't have the confidence to ride a bike where you can plant 1 foot firmly on the ground, then you won't have the confidence to ride the bike properly either.
True in a certain respect - pretty much true of any new rider.

Confidence only comes from trying, experiencing and learning, which means that new riders lack confidence and also cannot ride properly. With time they gain experience and confidence; their riding skills improve, and pretty soon they find they no longer put both feet down because it is more efficient to leave one on the peg (and if they're like me, they don't even realise they've changed until something forces them to assess what they're doing)

It's the old "crawl before you walk" thing. Juliet's experience riding a motorbike is limited to blatting around the lawn on a small, light 80cc trail bike.

[Hitcher]

You only need 1 foot on the ground. Having 2 down means you don't have the same amount of control because you have divorced yourself from the bike, ie you're balanced and stable but you're no longer an integral part of the bike. May sound counterintuitive, but look at how many really good riders have 2 feet down at any time - you won't find many at all. Even tall riders don't put 2 feet down most of the time.

It's definitely possible. It's just a matter of confidence. If you don't have the confidence to ride a bike where you can plant 1 foot firmly on the ground, then you won't have the confidence to ride the bike properly either.
Simplistic nonsense. Having two feet on the ground gives inordinately more "control" than just one. We're talking about a bike at rest. Stationary. Motionless. In this state the rider cannot be "an integral part of the bike" as they are when the bike is moving. A good gusty Wellington intersection; manouevering on gravel; turning around on a non-level surface; etc. I'd like to see how many of your "good" riders fanny around with only one foot down in those circumstances.

[jrandom]

yeah, I call bolocks to the 'two feet on ground means yer ghey' crap. what, the cool police are gonna come and get you for it, or summat?

for that matter, what about all those ning-nongs who sit at intersections with just their RIGHT foot on the ground?

like, wtf?

does your clutch not work, so that you have to laboriusly click in and out of neutral every time you want to cease forward progress?

*normal* human beans put their LEFT foot down so that they can hold the bike with the back brake, thus leaving their right hand free for nose-picking and crotch-scratching.

now *there's* an offense for LTNZ to add to the books.

Moronically Using Right Foot To Balance Bike While Faffing With Gearshift At A Standstill: $150.

[magicfairy]

Totally agree with Honda ST1300.
I had no problems when I was moving, but because I was a newbie, and tippy toeing, I had problems at windy Wellington intersections and more so when I found I had to put foot down unexpectedly in places where the ground fell away. (gas station exits, driveways)
I'd go to put my foot down, find nothing under it, bike would start to lean and by the time I had my foot down I was past the point of no return and had to let bike fall.
Very confidence destroying.
I have met other midgets who managed tippy toeing just fine, but didn't work for me. Only Juliet can judge if tippy toeing will work for her or not.

[heavenly.talker]

I often ponder how many motorcycles could be sold in New Zealand if dealers actually showed some enthusiasm, got off their arses, and made an effort...


So true!!!!

Dealers often fawn all over hubbie and tell him his Sh*te don't stink but...

Only execption I have found yet is Mike at Mount Eden Motorcycles...hes great!
Talks like a proud papa about the bikes and will talk to me and the man instead of just him!

[Beemer]

It's all very well for people to say "once you've been riding for a few years, not being able to get both feet down won't be a factor" - but we're not talking about people who have been riding for years, we're talking about new riders who are often totally lacking in confidence. I know I was when I got my RG, and Steve Dundon's comment that there are some people who really shouldn't be riding did nothing for my confidence. (It did mean I will never buy another bike from him though!) If it weren't for helpful people like Alan Kirk and his mate Ray, Andrew and Lynne Templeton, and Brendan Keogh from Sawyers, I'd probably still be lacking in confidence. They persuaded me to have the bike lowered (instant rise in confidence) and spent vast amounts of their own time helping me learn to ride. Not to mention many of the women in WIMA Wellington in 1998-99 who took me out for runs to build up my confidence - and a total stranger (at the time), Stuart Woodman, who volunteered to ride over the Rimutakas with me for the first time.

Next time someone says "you'll be okay once you get used to it", I give all newbies permission to beat the crap out of them!

[heavenly.talker]

I agree with you to a certain extent Ixion, but the difference between short male riders and short female riders tends to be strength


The other thing that seems to be different is arm length. A short man still seems to be able to grip the bars in comfort while the short female counterpart ends up leaning all over the tank (well that is what has been happening to me anyhow).

With all the short saddles in the cruisers I got all excited thinking that my new bike would be easy to find...but alas...most of the bars are too far away for my arms and most cruisers do not have removable bars these days :-(

Totally believe that the female market has got great potential. After all woman successfully accessorise everything else they buy so it is astounding that no one has thought to give her the tools to do this to her bike and bike gear!!!!


As for the american market...woman are starting to make a big impact overthere. There are heaps of groups and sites dedicated to woman. Interesting thing is that many woman are riding harelys...and they are huge (the bikes...not the woman). They seem to learn on massive bikes too!

Maybe it's because the roads are so straight in the middle.

[Ixion]

Simplistic nonsense. Having two feet on the ground gives inordinately more "control" than just one. We're talking about a bike at rest. Stationary. Motionless. In this state the rider cannot be "an integral part of the bike" as they are when the bike is moving. A good gusty Wellington intersection; manouevering on gravel; turning around on a non-level surface; etc. I'd like to see how many of your "good" riders fanny around with only one foot down in those circumstances.

Well, manoeuvering on gravel, I'd suggest no feet down. Gravel is best dealt with feet up. I almost never have both feet down. But that's just becasue I can only reach the ground with one foot at a time (shimmy sideways and lean a bit).

Thing is , as someone pointed out, it's not really what is best for control, it's what makes a nervous beginner FEEL comfortable. The "come to a stop with both legs stuck out sideways" technique may be technically wrong. but if it makes a new rider confident , then go for it.

Remember new riders may not be too sure which way they bike will lean when they stop. So if they can only get one foot down, they are scared it will be the wrong foot - left foot down, but bike leans right - oops.

Surely we, and manufacturers, can cut the newbie a bit of slack?

(One time when ability to use two feet really is nice, is backing up the bike. )

[Ixion]

..

for that matter, what about all those ning-nongs who sit at intersections with just their RIGHT foot on the ground?

like, wtf?

does your clutch not work, so that you have to laboriusly click in and out of neutral every time you want to cease forward progress?

*normal* human beans put their LEFT foot down so that they can hold the bike with the back brake, thus leaving their right hand free for nose-picking and crotch-scratching.

..

Remaining stopped for any prolonged period with the bike in gear and clutch disengaged is a bad idea. A wet clutch will always drag somewhat, the heat thus generated can burn cork plates. A dry clutch, like BMW, you will prematurely wear the throw out bearing. And some bikes, the oil pump will not work with the bike in gear and clutch disengaged. Which is a Very Bad Thing.

If the stop is likely to be of any duration, best to engage neutral. That is what it is for.

The right foot downers might also be riders accustomed to bikes that have the gear change on the correct (right) side.

Personally, I prefer to hold with the front brake. Much simpler.

[Lou Girardin]

yeah, I call bolocks to the 'two feet on ground means yer ghey' crap. what, the cool police are gonna come and get you for it, or summat?

for that matter, what about all those ning-nongs who sit at intersections with just their RIGHT foot on the ground?

like, wtf?

does your clutch not work, so that you have to laboriusly click in and out of neutral every time you want to cease forward progress?

*normal* human beans put their LEFT foot down so that they can hold the bike with the back brake, thus leaving their right hand free for nose-picking and crotch-scratching.

now *there's* an offense for LTNZ to add to the books.

Moronically Using Right Foot To Balance Bike While Faffing With Gearshift At A Standstill: $150.


But, due to road camber, the left side is a longer stretch.
And don't call me a ning nong, you undersize little throw-back. :finger:

[Wolf]

for that matter, what about all those ning-nongs who sit at intersections with just their RIGHT foot on the ground?
I generally put down whichever foot is not going to end up in a pothole or on grease. I tend to swap legs depending on whether I feel the need to hold the bike on the foot brake (left down) or put my foot on the high side of the bike (right down)

*normal* human beans put their LEFT foot down so that they can hold the bike with the back brake, thus leaving their right hand free for nose-picking and crotch-scratching.
Normal hummus beings can't get gloved fingers up their nostrils and find that trying to scratch through thick leggings with fingernails sheathed in leather, Goretex and Thinsulate is not very satisfying - best to save the crotch scratching for later...

[Waylander]

Use variation, sometimes I put one foot down, bike in first clutch pulled in and ready to accelerate off, others I kick it in neutral both feet down and no hands on the bars. Depends on weather I know how long the light is, and who is next to me.

[crashe]

Interesting reading from all you gals and guys.

Being the shortarse that I am...
When stationery, I will sometimes use the three options: both feet, right foot only and sometimes the left foot. Now it does all depend on the type of road.
Plus it also really depends on the weather conditions.

Gravel road - I find for me, it is easier to walk the bike... or with both feet skimming just above the ground... Thats what makes me comfortable on gravel roads. Maybe its cos my bike is a cruiser... or maybe its just me.
But then I dont personally like gravel roads.

But we all develop our own riding skills and abilities at a different rate to everyone else.

To be honest, since I have been back on a bike.
The first five years were all city/urban riding... I can handle that no sweat.
But country riding, I still have a long way to improve my riding skills as I have only been riding out in the country the past 9 months.... Its the real tight twisties that tend to get me... but then Im not into speed either.... and very happy to let all the sportbikes hoon on past me.

[Wolf]

Use variation, sometimes I put one foot down, bike in first clutch pulled in and ready to accelerate off, others I kick it in neutral both feet down and no hands on the bars. Depends on weather I know how long the light is, and who is next to me.
If the queue is especially long and I don't have to use the brakes to hold the bike, I'll pop the bike into neutral and wait with both feet on the road, hands resting on my knees or drumming impatiently on the petrol tank.

On the LS400 I used to but both feet down a lot - mainly so I could stand up and look over the cars in front of me to see who it is that's sitting at the line staring vacantly at the pretty green light...

[inlinefour]

Wolf and I went to Hamilton Motorcycles on Saturday because Wolf wanted to take the new BMW F650GS Dakar for a test ride. While we were there we looked at a Suzuki GX125 as a good small bike for me to learn on. Well, looking at it, I thought I would be able to sit on it with no problem. However I climbed onto this mountain (it seemed like it) of a bike only to find that I'm standing on tip-toe like a ballerina. I am now starting to lose hope of ever finding a bike that I can sit with my feet flat on the ground and feel comfortable. :crybaby: my height is approx: 5'2"
Does anyone else have the same problem? If so, how did you overcome it?

Your more than welcome to take my z50 for a spin and they can also be made road legal :dodge:

[Hitcher]

When stationery, I will sometimes use the three options:
Pad, pencil and rubber?

[crashe]

Pad, pencil and rubber?

Yeah me bad, but I figured you would be so kind to correct it for me... :spudwave:

Its stationaryisn't it?

[Wolf]

Yeah me bad, but I figured you would be so kind to correct it for me... :spudwave:

Its stationaryisn't it?
And it's "it's" - had to beat Hitcher to it...

[James Deuce]

Yeah me bad, but I figured you would be so kind to correct it for me... :spudwave:

Its stationaryisn't it?

Really simple rule to differentiate these two particular homophones:

StationEry - the E stands for Envelope.

Hope that helps.

[crashe]

Oi Wolf....... :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks Jim2, yep it is one of those words that can trick you up all the time :spudwave:

[Stevo]

yeah, I call bolocks to the 'two feet on ground means yer ghey' crap. what, the cool police are gonna come and get you for it, or summat?

for that matter, what about all those ning-nongs who sit at intersections with just their RIGHT foot on the ground?

like, wtf?

does your clutch not work, so that you have to laboriusly click in and out of neutral every time you want to cease forward progress?

*normal* human beans put their LEFT foot down so that they can hold the bike with the back brake, thus leaving their right hand free for nose-picking and crotch-scratching.

now *there's* an offense for LTNZ to add to the books.

Moronically Using Right Foot To Balance Bike While Faffing With Gearshift At A Standstill: $150.

I fail to understand the exact problem here. Always try to be in neutral while sitting idle. I like to be in gear to take off, so often I put right foot down. If I want to sit up straight, then I just swap feet.
As I suffer from Duck's Disease sitting both feet on the ground is less pleasant than just the one.

[Wolf]

I fail to understand the exact problem here. Always try to be in neutral while sitting idle.
I'm "naughty" - I only go to neutral if it looks like a "long stay" - huge queue full of retards that show a higher than average tendency to sit and stare at green lights or queued at some of the busier roundabouts in town - Hamiltonians know the ones: Your queue will be lucky to get one car through the roundabout for every twenty cars approaching from the right...

I like taller bikes as I like to be able to see far ahead but I bought the LS400 owing to duck's arse disease and out-of-date assumptions.