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Quasievil
1st November 2005, 13:51
Ok I been thinking about this for a little while and come to the conclusion that us as bikers are getting a bloody raw deal from Pukekohe trackday organisers.

The way I look at it there has been about 4 odd bikers (that I know of) that have all hit the same damn wall, latest being DSS3.
On a good day we can see about 30 bikers at a trackday on a normal day maybe 15 bikers, now at about $90 a peice Im fucked if I can see a reason why they dont put out the safety bales.
Collectively we spend $1350-$2700 for the privilage to get on the track so why do they not put out the Bales for us.

They need to do it over the hill coming onto the front straight as well as Castrol.

How much time would it take ??? how many bones and injuries would it save.
maybe it might save a death !

As far as I am concerned is a absolute requirement for them to ensure the safety of the track users and it is unforgivable that bikers when they crash have no protection from the wall............Lazy bastards.

I think its time we soughted this out whos in ?

Keystone19
1st November 2005, 13:54
Yeah, I agree Brett. What do you have in mind?

ManDownUnder
1st November 2005, 13:59
Doesn't affect me too much (only ever ridden there once) but I'm right behind anything keeping the blood where it should be.

Quasievil
1st November 2005, 14:01
Yeah, I agree Brett. What do you have in mind?

I nice freindly meeting face to face and if no action blocking the track voiding entry to everyone until the bales are out !!

maybe or ringing OSH

Quasievil
1st November 2005, 14:01
Maybe have a talk to Gary at Puke.

Who is gary and how do we get hold of him ?

Brian d marge
1st November 2005, 14:05
Me .
I have been trying to contact MNZ well for ages now ...and almost given up ...Email works ,,,but they just plainly avoided the safety issue ,,, ( one assumes MNZ has say over the Min level of safety required )

and no I havent keep any copies of the email ,,I just realised now as I am typing ,,,,

I wondered the same thing about the wall ..I havent been there , or seen the wall but , I read here that there has been more than one who has had a relationship with it ... Why is it still there ??? .

Now I dont want safety Nazi s running around the place ,,,,ere that sump washer looks a bit dodgy you cant race ere wiv a dodgy sump washer mate ....
But what I do want is 1/2 amount of common ........


Stephen

OSH ...I can probably help with .......

Keystone19
1st November 2005, 14:05
I nice freindly meeting face to face and if no action blocking the track voiding entry to everyone until the bales are out !!

maybe or ringing OSH

I'll be happy to come to any meeting/s, just let me know where and when.

SlowHand
1st November 2005, 14:10
I'll protest to that. It is rather solid.

ManDownUnder
1st November 2005, 14:27
BTW.. last guy I pulled off that wall was paralysed... the 300 enduro a few months ago.

Sounds like you're the guy with the convincing argument...

Quasievil
1st November 2005, 14:41
The bales were up that day, he slid under them.

That could be easily fixed with several sizable tent pegs per bale well banged in,cant people think ?

curious george
1st November 2005, 15:25
All good ideas, and reasonable solutions, but I doubt anything much will happen, unless we organise it ourselves. "You want bales? Sure, put them out before bikes, and take away before cars. You lot do it." I'm guessing as the reply.
Not to have a go at Gary, it's too much for him to do, but something needs to be done.

As a protest, we could all boycott the track... and then what? Nothing would change, and we would be without a track.
This is a major problem and I'm willing to help if I can, but I don't know if I can see a practical answer. Anyone else?

Quasievil
1st November 2005, 15:34
All good ideas, and reasonable solutions, but I doubt anything much will happen, unless we organise it ourselves. "You want bales? Sure, put them out before bikes, and take away before cars. You lot do it." I'm guessing as the reply.
Not to have a go at Gary, it's too much for him to do, but something needs to be done.

As a protest, we could all boycott the track... and then what? Nothing would change, and we would be without a track.
This is a major problem and I'm willing to help if I can, but I don't know if I can see a practical answer. Anyone else?

Why do the bales have to in when the cars go out? I cant see any reason why they cant stay.
any issue the cars would have with bales out would pale into insignificance with the reason why the bikes need them out.

James Deuce
1st November 2005, 15:47
Air Fence.

That wall needs an air fence.

I've been under the armco and into a shed at Puke. That was interesting.

bugjuice
1st November 2005, 15:48
a friend who I used to work with came off in the qualifying run of the enduro, on the ZX10. He slid under the bales and it came back down on top of him, which broke his collar bone and knocked him out for a few minutes. Similar to DSS's crash actually but higher speed.
But, had the bales not been there, he wouldn't be here now, so we're thankful for them at least.

The whole track has issues all over the place. It's kind of a reason why I'm not fussed about going there. Not that I go so hard that I'm on the edge, but just look at the crash that Gary on the grey CBR1000RR had.. He just tapped someone and sat up and ran into the amco..

IMHO we pay a shed load, and the cost goes up every so often, and the condition of the track bearly improves, and the safety is never addressed. As far as I'm concerned, level it, let the ponies have their little track, and get Hampton bloody Downs built, so we have a decent track to run around on. Only thing is that's gonna cost a small fortune per track day..

With that, and screwing only the right side of the tyres really hard, I really am over Puke really, for personal track days. I'd race there, but could find it hard to commit. That crest on the last corner is a bitch if you run it a little too wide too

Lou Girardin
1st November 2005, 15:51
BTW.. last guy I pulled off that wall was paralysed... the 300 enduro a few months ago.

I'd heard that, but there was a remarkable lack of reportage in any of the Bike mags.
That fuckin' hill is a killer.

Hoon
1st November 2005, 16:00
This has all been discussed before in another thread. The problem is the bales belong to AMCC, not the track. We would need their permission to use them. If we did, we can't leave them out while cars are on the track because one car could totally destroy a whole row of bales.

Also putting bales out and fetching them in between sessions is not an option. It takes a team of 10+ people a good 15-30 mins each time and is hard work - definately not something you'd want to do before/after hopping on your bike everytime not to mention the delays it would cause other groups.

The only options for a safer Pukekohe that I can see is dedicated bike only track days or to charge more to cover the manpower and lost time. We all want safer track days but how many of us are prepared to pay say $180 for it?

Bring on Hampton Downs!!

curious george
1st November 2005, 20:32
Why do the bales have to in when the cars go out? I cant see any reason why they cant stay.
any issue the cars would have with bales out would pale into insignificance with the reason why the bikes need them out.
What Hoon said really....
Gary's got them there, but it's a big job to set up properly.
That and when a car hits them, they would be a gonna.
Gary's only one man, who's gonna help him?
I know what you are saying, and I agree, but this has been argued before....
The only solution I can see is a bike only day, and the AMCC helps set the things up PROPERLY, so nobody slides underneath them.
I'm all willing to lend a hand if that day ever arrives, but untill then, I can't be arsed with Puke

Quasievil
1st November 2005, 21:16
Yeah I know what your saying about , what if a car hits the bales the bale will be stuffed'but common get real, whata old woolsack worth stuffed with hay ?

at the prices they charge they should be prepared to run that risk. I dont accept that arguement , nor do I accept poor ole gary having to put them out himself, these guys will be pulling quite a few $K out of these days and they should not be comprimising saftey over some shitty bags full of hay

chris
2nd November 2005, 07:46
at the prices they charge


these guys will be pulling quite a few $K out of these days

I'm not condoning anything regarding safety, but, to hire Puke for a mid week date is about $3000 I think. Add in $600 for St Johns to be there with an ambulance for the day, the cost of public liability plus the staff wages and all of a sudden they don't look to be pulling in a few $K. Everyone has overheads you know.

Quasievil
2nd November 2005, 08:15
I'm not condoning anything regarding safety, but, to hire Puke for a mid week date is about $3000 I think. Add in $600 for St Johns to be there with an ambulance for the day, the cost of public liability plus the staff wages and all of a sudden they don't look to be pulling in a few $K. Everyone has overheads you know.

I understand people have overheads.
I wont accept costs and money being more important than safety especially when it can be greatly enhanced by low cost bags of hay

chris
2nd November 2005, 08:23
I understand people have overheads.
I wont accept costs and money being more important than safety especially when it can be greatly enhanced by low cost bags of hay

As I said, my comments were nothing to do with safety. I was just replying to your comment that they will be making $$$$ out of a Puke track day.

FzerozeroT
2nd November 2005, 10:03
mebbe we should con the AMCC into buying some second hand gym mats (the thick ones) and a way to winch them up the wall, that way you just run along and lift them 3m off the ground when the cars come out?

FzerozeroT
2nd November 2005, 10:57
I'm just trying to think of something that would have enough weight at the bottom to stop people from going underneath them, as both crashes I have seen there this is what has happened (yes stephens included) thats why I think bales of anything are shit as they end up being round, maybe somehing like the inflatable barriers used for paintball? maybe some stuffed ones and then milk bottles / coke bottles? I think that the triangle shape would help them slide up to the middle of the barrier.

FzerozeroT
2nd November 2005, 10:58
hmm, I suppose thats called an air-fence ay jim ;) another idea could be some way of recycling old tyres, do something like hokey pokey where you melt the rubber then just as it is about to set fill it with bubbles?

FROSTY
2nd November 2005, 11:02
Guys --beating our chests aint gonna fix anything.
quazi-as Hoon said --the bales DONT belong to The track --they are the property of AMCC. Now hands up how many of you KB racers put ya hands up to fill the bales with bottles??
Why would AMCC let an uncontrolled track day use their limited supply of bales
In no way am I disagreeing with your sentiment quazi--You've seen my left shoulder--Thanks to "the hill"
Personally I feel that the answer is move the armco back, ditch the grass and have a sand trap and have air fencing
Mind you Speedie --the comment about gym mats has me thinking--
what about 3 layers of old conveyer belting over the armco.
No it wont help in a direct impact but it would make a hell of a difference to the armco on the right of the track--that way youde hit then slide--not get hooked up on pretruding bolts etc like Gary?? the cbr rider did
god news is theres probably miles of old conveyer rubber around the place

FzerozeroT
2nd November 2005, 11:21
Like most other people, I know him he doesn't know me. (sorry for getting off track)

Has anyone ever done a plotting/map type thing of all the impacts, from what I can gather it's only a small stretch of wall?

I don't thing Pukekohe would be keen to do any earthworks for dirty old bikers, and spectators can stand on the wall close to the V8's when they go past, thats more important! :finger:

R6_kid
2nd November 2005, 16:55
maybe we could organise to assist in putting the bales out ourselves...

say 5 of us go down an hour or two before the track day starts.

in return they give those that help a discount for that day?

of course, you'd have to go and help put them away again.

- on a side note, who do the bales belong to? if its pukekohe raceway then it should be too much of a hassle to arrange such a deal. and that way we are improvign safety for everyone at the track.

SlowHand
2nd November 2005, 17:01
Gareth - did ur pillion squeeze you too hard on sat? (forgot her name). They belong to AMCC. and from what I gather, its prolly best that we had our own?

cowpoos
2nd November 2005, 19:32
That could be easily fixed with several sizable tent pegs per bale well banged in,cant people think ?

the bales really need to be large squares...[5ft by 3ft] as apossed to those little idiot bales...and if they are laid about a metre away from the wall...the impact will alow the bale to move further cushoning the rider...

I've slide of a mxer at about 100-110kmph....and hit one...and it was sweet...I had no gear on at all was just catching up to the baler as he was leaving the padk...didn't hurt at all....I know it will be different at high speeds...but it won't be a concrete wall...and large squares are a little heavyer than smalls...so won't be able to slide underneath them...

cowpoos
2nd November 2005, 19:38
ps: and at 35-45 dollars a bale [5ft by 3ft]....thats cheap protection

HenryDorsetCase
3rd November 2005, 11:40
does anyone own a squash ball factory?

a few million squash balls in a wool bale would (it seems to me) be a decent protector.

could you dig a little trench in front of the armco, put the balage in that. Idea being as you slide along when you hit the bale you dont hit the bottom edge, you hit it 300 mm up the side.

of course the issue is that a trench dug in front of armco NOT with balage in it would flip a car potentially. ...


what news on the new proposed track south of auckland?

Damon
3rd November 2005, 11:44
BTW.. last guy I pulled off that wall was paralysed... the 300 enduro a few months ago.

I was one of the marshalls on that point when that happened, that was one of the scarest things i've seen, he came around the corner, lost grip and came heading right for us, the bike hit the wall with a massive thump and then the rider, i looked over the top and he was in the bales, not moving, i fair packed myself and then juped over, the bales did help a little but if they were not there at all it would have been a real mess, hell of a leep over that wall to the track below too.

I've helped to put those bales out plenty of times and it doesn't take that long, Quasi's sugestion of tent pegs would be a great idea but most of the bales are so old they need to be replaced, atleast with ones that can tie together on all 8 corners.

My sugestion is that if you want them out just call "Grounds Keeper Willie" and turn up an hour early and do it.

Devil
3rd November 2005, 14:17
I was one of the marshalls on that point when that happened, that was one of the scarest things i've seen, he came around the corner, lost grip and came heading right for us, the bike hit the wall with a massive thump and then the rider, i looked over the top and he was in the bales, not moving, i fair packed myself and then juped over, the bales did help a little but if they were not there at all it would have been a real mess, hell of a leep over that wall to the track below too.
Happened right in front of me too, I was on the other side of the fence. Ugh, the noise.

bugjuice
3rd November 2005, 14:44
even bails still hurt..
this is me mate, Carey (Crash/Flyer) Brier on his qualifying lap for the enduro a while ago. This knocked him out for a few minutes, did his ankle and collar bone, altho neither broke completely. Plus brought up all the old injuries to make him sore for a while again..

Matt Bleck
3rd November 2005, 15:33
Gareth - did ur pillion squeeze you too hard on sat? (forgot her name). They belong to AMCC. and from what I gather, its prolly best that we had our own?

Is that a silly idea, having a KB set of bales??

Maybe we all save up or plastic milk bottles, find some old wool sacks, a bit of a working bee and hey presto...

FROSTY
3rd November 2005, 21:21
ok guys --time to put money/bodys where mouth is.
AMCC needs 50 bales filled-- call lindsey banks --021976751

SlowHand
3rd November 2005, 21:33
ok guys --time to put money/bodys where mouth is.
AMCC needs 50 bales filled-- call lindsey banks --021976751

Feck, I'll donate money to cause, but am too much of a prat to give time. :crybaby:

Will the bales be out on open days too?

bugjuice
3rd November 2005, 21:36
Hell of a lot of good that was.
go download quicktime (http:www.apple.com/quicktime) and use that

Hoon
3rd November 2005, 21:42
Thats a great idea and a good start in the right direction. If enough of us KBers can make a noticeable enough contribution, it would put us in a more favourable position when it comes time to ask if we can borrow them.

I still don't believe using the bales at a typical pukekohe open testing shared track day is a viable option but definately bike only days or maybe even a future KB organised event there?

Not a solution on its own but overcomes one of the hurdles on the way.

SlowHand
3rd November 2005, 21:44
dam Im good - REP ME!!! lol

Hoon
3rd November 2005, 21:46
Hell of a lot of good that was.

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