NZ Motorists

[Groins_NZ]

Morning!

In the last three weeks I've heard two foreigners comment on NZ car drivers.

The first time was a lady in the Post Shop. I was buying a map book ready for the GC and had my bike gear on so she instantly recognised me as a motorcyclist. Turned out she USED to ride too but upon coming to New Zealand, <I><B>"decided against it because there are too many bad/dangerous/stupid drivers over here"</I></B>. Well I thought, fair enough....

Second time was last night after playing a round of Business House squash I got talking to a lady from the UK who's been living over here for 5 years now. She used to be into bikes over in the UK with her brother and had considered buying a bike from an acquaintance who was going back home to the UK but, <I><B>"decided against it as the drivers over here are shocking/angry - and totally unaware of motorcyclists on the road – scary!"</I></B>.

Anyone else heard similar comments from people not of this terra firma?

Could be a good argument to throw at the AA, Government and ACC for them to lower registration and ACC levies. Actually when I think about it weren’t NZ drivers recently rated as being amongst some of the worst in the world (not the worst but up near the top of the list)? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve just had a quick look on Google and can't find any relevant stats (for those of you who like looking at statistical data :)).

[James Deuce]

I have to agree. Driving in the UK is a sublime experience, even with the hugely greater traffic congestion.

Coming home to NZ after a year there, inc. 6 months of driving company cars and my own car around taught me more about driving than 20 years of driving in NZ, especially about courteousness, and reading traffic flows.

NZ drivers, including those who think they are good drivers, are the sort of people that cause multi-car pile ups on fog-bound motorways over there.

To put commuting into perspective, it took me 2.5 hours to cover 70 miles from Southampton to Ashtead. It takes me 45 minutes in really bad traffic to cover the 20 odd kms from Maungaraki to Wellington, largely because NZ drivers can't merge, won't let people in, and can't plan their journey. Lazy and aggressive drivers.

I did a similar distance for 3 months, from Southampton to Hythe and it took me 20 minutes in bad traffic, of a similar density to Wellington, and on similar capacity roads.

We're really, really, bad drivers who tend to drive to the car in front rather than working with the traffic front and rear, and we're belligerent with poor vehicle control skills. The average NZ motorcyclist approaches the average UK driver in terms of control skill, and situational awareness, but we really need to be better than that.

[bugjuice]

yep, I learnt to drive in the UK and learnt the fast way of getting around London etc.. That tones even the bravest of drivers. Thankful for it too.. Plus, the UK have averagely higher speeds everywhere too. NZ has it easy by comparison, and too many drivers are just taking it for granted and the bar. Then complain when the bar is set too high..

[Lou Girardin]

If you spend peanuts on training you get monkey drivers.
Add to that the attitude of a car just being another appliance, not requiring any pride in your ability to handle it.
Plus a macho, hyper-aggressive attitude breed into young males through thugby.
Then there's the punitive, purtitanical attitude to enforcement rather than education.
And viola you have NZ drivers.

[Sparky Bills]

If you spend peanuts on training you get monkey drivers.
Add to that the attitude of a car just being another appliance, not requiring any pride in your ability to handle it.
Plus a macho, hyper-aggressive attitude breed into young males through thugby.
Then there's the punitive, purtitanical attitude to enforcement rather than education.
And viola you have NZ drivers.


Agreed! :whistle:

[Finn]

I would agree with their comments as I've driven in many countries and have a European girlfriend. However, I don't think you need to travel yourself or hear from a tourist to come to your own conclusion here. We all know something just isn't quite right when we're on the road.

However, I think there are many reasons that contribute to stupidity on NZ roads.

1) Lack of overtaking areas. Just travel from Auck to Tauranga and you'll often be down to 70k's following some inbreed for 20 mins. Causes frustration.

2) Third world roads. You get frustrated with the above and overtake when you probably shouldn't.

3) Roading system that doesn't work due to lack of planning and a lack of intelligence in Governement (central & local)

4) Island life. Yes that's right. We suffer from this relaxed, she'll be right mentality which isn't such a bad thing however it is when you're behind a wheel.

5) Typical agressive, ignorant Kiwi nature. Case in point. Travel down a motorway in light traffic. Watch the little people spread out and often you'll note that the slow lane is empty apart from that one inbreed doing 80 - 90. Drive behind someone in the right lane barely doing 100 flash your lights and be prepared for WWIII.

My 2 cents worth.

[Fryin Finn]

When I was in the UK in 96 I hired a Mazda MX5 and with my brother drove up to Scotland in my usual Kiwi motorcyclist style. My overtaking techniques were typical, leading my brother to say I would be the most hated driver in Scotland.
I don't think motorists here are motorcycle unaware - they just don't give a shit. :Oi:

[bugjuice]

5) Typical agressive, ignorant Kiwi nature. Case in point. Travel down a motorway in light traffic. Watch the little people spread out and often you'll note that the slow lane is empty apart from that one inbreed doing 80 - 90. Drive behind someone in the right lane barely doing 100 flash your lights and be prepared for WWIII.
hey, the slow lane is my lane.. its the only lane where I can safely travel at 150 and know there's no one in my way..

and I love my full beam. I was coming up behind a car that was sat in the right hand lane, going 80. No one around, nothing to over take.. so on go the full beam, just a quick flash to say 'hi, fuck off from the fast lane, you're going slow', and I get the middle finger!! :shit: So on go the full beams, and I leave them on, just to see what happens. Nothing. Just get the finger back..

If drivers were educated in driving like other countries do, there'd be no need to spend billions on more roads for drivers to clog up.

I even emailed the government on this a while ago, cos I was so pissed off at sitting behind trucks trying to race up the harbour bridge at 50kph. I pointed out that other countries like the UK, that have billions of cars on the road, spend less time sat in congestion percentage wise, than most, and that NZ has to follow an example instead of just driving 'free will' all over the place. Even if it's one rule like slow/med/fast lane and keep left unless passing....

You know what I got back?

In a nutshell - Trucks are allowed to do 90kph now. Cars travel at 100kph. That's ok, cos there's only 10kph difference between the two. Our structure is ok for the amount of cars we have, and we're building more. The 'slow' lane doesn't always last the length of the motorway, so people have to move lanes often.

nominate him for the Darwin award..

[awd]

Actually when I think about it weren’t NZ drivers recently rated as being amongst some of the worst in the world (not the worst but up near the top of the list)? Please correct me if I’m wrong. I’ve just had a quick look on Google and can't find any relevant stats (for those of you who like looking at statistical data :)).
Was this the recent survey that NZ came second, behind the USA, for the worst road rage? I thought that hard to believe, mainly because South Africa wasn't up there too; having grown up in SA and learned to drive there I would have rated it way above NZ & USA for bad road rage.

Anyway, I have to agree with this consensus of NZ drivers. I think Billy Conolly summed it up quite well when he said 'when I overtake you, it's not personal!' There seems to be an underlying idea of arrogance in NZ drivers that makes them think that they are the only people on the road who actually have to get somewhere, anyhing else around them is merely a moving obstacle to be dispensed with at the earliest possible opportunity.

I've driven in lots of places, both bikes and cars, and I honestly think that NZ drivers are the worst I have encountered anywhere. I include India, Russia and the former Soviet Central Asian states in this comparison. Having lived in Italy and done thousands of k's on European roads I honestly feel that the Italians have the best vehicle control of any drivers anywhere.

Obviously there are exceptions to all generalisations, but I feel quite strongly about NZ drivers. Part of the reason I am selling the bike, as much as I love riding. :spudwave:

[gamgee]

speaking of shitty nz drivers, was driving along cumberland st yesterday, in the cage thankfully, anyway dumb bitch in one of those stupid mitsubishi colts decides to change lanes without indicating , only problem is i was right beside her, front of my car was about level with her drivers door, anyway, with no warning she just swings straight accross, and if it wasn't for my highly tuned (thanks to motorcycling) ability to spot idiots, she would have got pit maneuvred and probably rolled, was friggen tempted to do it just because it would have been all her fault, but i was nice and just slammed on the brakes, and nearly got rear ended, just imagine what would have happened had i been on my bike, probably wouldn't have been pretty...

[SPman]

hey, the slow lane is my lane.. its the only lane where I can safely travel at 150 and know there's no one in my way..
You've found that too.......




If drivers were educated in driving like other countries do, there'd be no need to spend billions on more roads for drivers to clog up.
- Sorry - that would entail spending money properly and actually taking an interest!



In a nutshell - Trucks are allowed to do 90kph now. Cars travel at 100kph. That's ok, cos there's only 10kph difference between the two. Our structure is ok for the amount of cars we have, and we're building more. The 'slow' lane doesn't always last the length of the motorway, so people have to move lanes often..
Thats because, yet again, rules are set by people who have no practical knowledge, or really, even interest, in how the real world operates. They think they can run things from an office .....
And it's applying to more and more facets of our lives
Useless pricks!

[Biff]

I totally agree. The standard of NZ drivers is appalling compared to other 'developed' and emerging countries. I'd even go as far to say that NZ drivers are worse than drivers from many/most countries across Asia (China aside). And your driving tests are far too easy IMO.

Then again - there's so little traffic in ChCh compared to Auckland, so the overall risk associated with riding a bike here (ChCh) remains a little lower than riding in some of the medium sized towns in the UK.

[madboy]

It takes me 45 minutes in really bad traffic to cover the 20 odd kms from Maungaraki to WellingtonSo that's why the traffic is so slow? You're holding it up! It takes me 14-16 mins from home to town in peak hour, and I've got further to go than you down that Hutt mway. Lanesplitting might well be illegal and dangerous, but at least I'll have lots more spare time before my early death! (pt)

Had a beautiful example of "don't give a shit" driving yesterday on the way to work. I was late, so the rush had cleared to the point where lane changes were actually possible. Medium sized sedan a few cars up pulls from the middle lane to the left lane, goes around the van in the middle lane, and moves back into the middle lane. Never broke 100km/h. Also never used an indicator throughout entire maneouvre(s). I cruised up alongside (splitting) and sat in the clear outside lane beside her, staring at her. Hunched over the steering wheel, bitter faced, bottle blonde late-middle aged woman. Eyes dead ahead. Until she looked right after about 10 secs. Then did a double take when she realised that a) there was a bike beside her, and b) the biker was staring at her. And to this day she'll be wondering why that strange biker shook his head before taking off at an insanely fast 120k.

[Beemer]

I was coming up behind a car that was sat in the right hand lane, going 80. No one around, nothing to over take.. so on go the full beam, just a quick flash to say 'hi, fuck off from the fast lane, you're going slow', and I get the middle finger!! :shit: So on go the full beams, and I leave them on, just to see what happens. Nothing. Just get the finger back...

I get this all the time and it really frustrates me. Heading home from Wellington yesterday by car I was so jealous of the rider who was able to get through all the cars spaced out between Plimmerton and Pukerua Bay. I got to Paraparaumu and moved into the outside passing lane to pass an old van. There were two other vehicles ahead of me in the outside lane but there was nothing in the inside lane and neither made any effort to move so I indicated and moved into the inside lane and passed them. No problem with the first vehicle, but the woman (funny how it is so often a woman!) in the second vehicle increased her speed. At the end of the passing lane the front of her car was level with the rear passenger door of mine and she was still coming for me! I realised she would have to move into the path of oncoming traffic if she wanted to try and cut me off so I kept going - and sure enough, she dropped back and was soon miles behind me. Pathetic - if she wants to travel at 90kph, she better not expect to do it in the outside passing lane!

We went to Australia last Christmas and couldn't get over how courteous the drivers were there. We rarely heard a horn being blasted in anger, and you only had to walk within 10 feet of a pedestrian crossing for motorists to stop and wave you across. Why are we all so angry in NZ? You'd expect us to drive like that if our population was huge and we were always stuck in traffic, so perhaps we should start being a bit more courteous and using those new-fangled things called rear vision mirrors!

[Korea]

Medium sized sedan a few cars up pulls from the middle lane to the left lane, goes around the van in the middle lane, and moves back into the middle lane. Never broke 100km/h. Also never used an indicator throughout entire maneouvre(s). I cruised up alongside (splitting) and sat in the clear outside lane beside her, staring at her. Hunched over the steering wheel, bitter faced, bottle blonde late-middle aged woman. Eyes dead ahead.
<I>"...you just want to lean over and say 'What is going on in your life, in your mind that is making you drive like this?' Take it easy!"</I>
Jerry Seinfeld - I'm telling you for the last time

[James Deuce]

So that's why the traffic is so slow? You're holding it up! It takes me 14-16 mins from home to town in peak hour, and I've got further to go than you down that Hutt mway. Lanesplitting might well be illegal and dangerous, but at least I'll have lots more spare time before my early death! (pt)



I should have said: In the car.

Bike takes about the same as you for me to get to Abel Smith St. I park right outside work too.

[chris]

If you spend peanuts on training you get monkey drivers.
No different to the UK. Also bear in mind that learner drivers in the UK have to cope with the vehicle movements of a 60 million population in a country the same size as NZ.

My own observations as a Pom living in NZ are that yes, general driving standards are shockingly bad compared to other countries I have driven in. Speed is simply not the main issue in NZ when it comes to accidents (it does cause some obviously) in my opinion. I used to regularly drive in Europe and it was a rare sight to see a traffic cop in France, Belgium, Germany, Italy etc while all around you people were happily going about their business at anything from 130km/h to 200km/h. If speed truly was the killer that NZ officialdom would have you believe, most of Europe would be deserted.

UK traffic cops are great compared to the policemenists in NZ who seem to display no common sense whatsoever. Although there is a speed limit on UK motorways of 70mph, I received one speeding ticket in 18 years of driving there. The average speed at which most traffic flows is around the 85mph mark and I was no different. I had been in NZ a few weeks before my first ticket for 112km/h on a clear empty, straight road, from a policemenist who displayed no common sense. A fair cop is a fair cop guvnor, but a good ticking off and then been sent on your way with a healthy respect for the guy who stopped you is so much more productive than blanket ticketing.

I believe that Portugal has the highest road death toll in Europe; I felt safer driving there than I ever have done on HW16 for example.

[Lou Girardin]

The UK has a far tougher testing regime. You can fail for holding the steering wheel incorrectly for instance.
In NZ there was even a proposal to do away with vehicle safety checks prior to a test.

[chris]

The UK has a far tougher testing regime.
Maybe, but you share the road with a hell of a lot more drivers than here in NZ. Otherwise, the theory test is much the same and the instructors will vary during a practical test I presume. But I presume it is much the same here as in the UK that you are taught to pass a test, not taught to drive in the real world.

[avgas]

If you spend peanuts on training you get monkey drivers.
I dunno lots of those aisan spend alot ;) (dont take offence people, just messing with ya, and dont worry im not anit-aisan :) )

Add to that the attitude of a car just being another appliance, not requiring any pride in your ability to handle it.
Yep thats a good point - f all NZers actually learn how to drive on the limits of their vehicle, so they dont know what the limits of their vehicle are - so when they exceed those limit (ie hit brakes)....all hell brakes loose.

Plus a macho, hyper-aggressive attitude breed into young males through thugby.
Dont forget the women who feel they are being unjustly done, 4wd owners, boy racers, buissness folk and ego-extentions.

Then there's the punitive, purtitanical attitude to enforcement rather than education.
Also there is a lack of enforcement in some areas.....

[Groins_NZ]

Plus a macho, hyper-aggressive attitude breed into young males through thugby.

Yes, and then they buy a 4x4 and think their 'king of the road'.

Some interesting comments from lot's of different sources in this thread for sure! The conclusion to all this, as far as I can see, is that we're basically FUCKED!

Quite often when I'm either riding or in the car I comment to my partner about a blatantly obvious twot who shouldn't be on the road, "how the f%$* did someone driving like that pass their practical?".

[Brian d marge]

Yes they are bad ...I remember reading a book called the book of lists ....lists and lists of trivia ....NZ wasnt that bad ,,,The maldives isle were the worst ...
but yup the macho arrogant attitude I feel is the problem ...BUT i really dont have a problem with NZ drivers ...They do stupid things ,,but at the end of the day if you drive /ride defensivly you hardly have a prob ,,,

On the bike I actually feel safer, and I cant remember when was the last time I had a brown trouser moment...If stupids want to kill themselves thats cool ,,, Insert rant about the innocent kid ( she was 7 ) anyway I wont be anywhere near the problem ,,and will be quite happy

As for suddenly changing lanes ...you will either see a head turn or a steering wheel turn and should have plenty of time to react ...
Tailgated ,,,pull over and let the dick meet his maker quicker .....

Oh and wind the windows up in the car before releasing your feelings loose about the d/h in the car in front ,,,,,

But I get a bit annoyed about the blanket speeding tickets ...That is revenue grabbing ,,,speed does cause problem as in if you hit a pole at 10km ,,,you get a sore nose ,,,hit a pole at 100 and you will know about it .....and IF Helen has to pay for your medical ,,,willShe make damn sure she will try and stop you ending up in the hospital in the first place ,,,,She would make the speed limit 20 km/h ,,,if it reduced the medical costs due to traffic accidents .....

Stephen

[Swoop]

Oh my goodness... what a thread and where to start!

But I won't.

There needs to be a complete mentality change with our drivers, but how do we do this?
Reading some of the posts from our friends in blue, the concept that people new to this country are using a "mail order" licence that is valid for 1 year, is completely insane to start with!

Think about it the next time you WALK down the street. If you walk on the left side of the pavement, just look at the people who are walking on the RIGHT hand side of the footpath & coming straight at you - then guess which lane they use most when driving.

Scares me thinking about these people who aren't thinking when driving.

[Karma]

The average NZ motorcyclist approaches the average UK driver in terms of control skill, and situational awareness, but we really need to be better than that.


So does that mean that the average UK motorcyclist is better than everyone?

:not:

[Pixie]

We rarely heard a horn being blasted in anger,
That's part of the problem with NZers,you rarely hear a horn used here either.It's because they are so repressed and frustrated.
In Italy it's a race to hit the horn the second the light turns green

[swanman]

Interesting and honest thread. I feel that there a quite a few ex Uk residents here. And i absolutley agree. Driving here is bad. When you first come here it is quite a shock. Worrying thing is that after a few years you don't notice it so much. Pet personal hate the truning left give way to turning right rule, OMG that is crazy. That is bureacratic nonsense over practicality, dumbest road rule ever and we all go along with it!

I only got one speeding ticket in Europe what was doing 50kmh in a 30kmh zone in Germany. Over here incessant, 58 in 50, 111 in 100 etc. It is not speed that kills it is inapropriate speed that kills. In line with the poor standard of driving here, there is poor road safety policy too. Hate to rant but this is a bug bear for me, as it is the one thing that risks my life more than it should in this great country.

[James Deuce]

Interesting and honest thread. ......

I'm a Kiwi born and bred, and I only needed a little exposure to a different driving culture to thoroughly examine my own abilities and attitudes.

And yes weasel, if Jimbo600 is anything to go by then I think that's probably a fair point.

[kro]

I moved from Auckland to Nelson, and although Nelson drivers are a hell of a lot more courteous, and let people in, and aren't in any big rush, they are freaking hopeless at using their indicators, which can be twice as bad.

It has to be seen to be believed.

[Brian d marge]

Tis true story ,,,,

I was driving in chch about 6 years ago ..goin down a one way street with 3 lanes ....cars parked on the side of the road ....so 5 lanes if you include where the cars are parked ...
I was in the right hand lane ie 4th from the left ,,,,doing 50k or so ,,and I see in the 6th lane comming up reall fast ,,ie on my inside ,,a car ,,and from the looks of it she wanted to cut in front of me ...thats cool ...but the speed she was going and the speed I was going ,,she would have hit the parked cars in front of her before she could have cut in front ,,,,,, So knowing this ,,,I had foot on brake ,,,no one behind me ,,so I thought ,,Ill just see how far this woman is prepared to go before she gives way ,,,* which she had to ,,,by law * ..
Nope ,,I let it go to the last mm ...and she was still accelarating .. so I stopped and she sweerved infront .... half a second more and she would have gone plowing up the arse of a parked car in front off her ,,,
She made a kamakazi piliot look safe ... Honestly she would have ,,gone right up the arse of a parked car rather than give way to me ...who was in the correct lane an all ....
But as I said before if you drive defensively ,,,then really there is no problem ...( treat em like idiots who are fresh from drivers school ,,amd dont be anywhere near them when they cock up ,,,,aand you will have a stress free ride !!)

Stephen
( the problem here in Japan is that they all watch the DVD player on the dash board so when the light changes green no one moves ,,,me included ,,,as i am watching me Led ZEP live DVD .....:2thumbsup)

[SPman]

I only got one speeding ticket in Europe what was doing 50kmh in a 30kmh zone in Germany. Over here incessant, 58 in 50, 111 in 100 etc. It is not speed that kills it is inapropriate speed that kills. In line with the poor standard of driving here, there is poor road safety policy too. Hate to rant but this is a bug bear for me, as it is the one thing that risks my life more than it should in this great country.
Unfortunately, you're right. The only policy is to ignore the root causes, and beat everyone over the head, indiscriminately, with the "speeding" stick. All they can see is to slow down all the traffic - seems to be the only thought in their collective brain cell! The LTSA or whatever keep coming up with figures like ---slow down the traffic median speed by 2.3690kph we will save 3.547lives per month at a savings of blah dollars a year, so if we extrapolate and slow everyone down we wont have to spend any money, we'll save it and we'll look good.Their goal seems to be to get us all in convoys, with police riding shotgun , travelling the highways at 65kph!

[Groins_NZ]

Unfortunately, you're right. The only policy is to ignore the root causes, and beat everyone over the head, indiscriminately, with the "speeding" stick. All they can see is to slow down all the traffic - seems to be the only thought in their collective brain cell! The LTSA or whatever keep coming up with figures like ---slow down the traffic median speed by 2.3690kph we will save 3.547lives per month at a savings of blah dollars a year, so if we extrapolate and slow everyone down we wont have to spend any money, we'll save it and we'll look good.Their goal seems to be to get us all in convoys, with police riding shotgun , travelling the highways at 65kph!

Well said <B>SPman</B>!

[SARGE]

and I love my full beam. I was coming up behind a car that was sat in the right hand lane, going 80. No one around, nothing to over take.. so on go the full beam, just a quick flash to say 'hi, fuck off from the fast lane, you're going slow', and I get the middle finger!! :shit: So on go the full beams, and I leave them on, just to see what happens. Nothing. Just get the finger back..




well buggy.. if you are getting the finger .. at least he SAW you..

i ride with my beams on during the day all the time for that reason ( and trust me .. you dont want to be in front of me when i do unless you want the hair on the back of your neck burnt off..)



Was this the recent survey that NZ came second, behind the USA, for the worst road rage?


sorry... my fault.. :whistle:

[Karma]

half a second more and she would have gone plowing up the arse of a parked car in front off her ,,,
She made a kamakazi piliot look safe ... Honestly she would have ,,gone right up the arse of a parked car rather than give way to me ...who was in the correct lane an all ....


I disagree... she would have swerved over anyways and ploughed into you... would have been safer than hitting the parked car after all.


Reminds me of an incident when taking my bike training in the uk.

We were in a standard formation, Trainee 1 at the front, instructor behind, and me at the back. Got into a bit of traffic behind some kinda lorry or something and as trainee 1 was a little new on bikes he couldn't sum up the courage to overtake when there was the oppertunity.

Anyways... all of a sudden this great big Range Rover pulls out from two cars behind me and trys to over take, get this, 2 cars, three bikes and a lorry all in one movement.

Well he got upto beside Trainee 1 before another lorry shows up heading straight for him.

Where to go he thinks...

A. Plough into the lorry headon
B. Swerve to the right and head into a ditch
C. Swerve to the left and shunt the learner biker off the road

Guess which option he took. Poor Trainee 1 was in hospital for a few days... could have been worse, broken leg, couple of cracked ribs, but says he'll never ride again because of it.

Range Rover driver was going through court when I left to come over here, but they were throwing all sorts of dangerous driving charges at him.

So... point of this post... um... well... some people are just shitty drivers, perhaps NZ has a higher percentage than the UK, but one thing is universal, they can kill you at 30kph if they really wanted to... the Range Rover was only doing 60Mph.

:done:

[Lou Girardin]

Tis true story ,,,,

I was driving in chch about 6 years ago ..goin down a one way street with 3 lanes ....cars parked on the side of the road ....so 5 lanes if you include where the cars are parked ...
....:2thumbsup)

I've seen this happen too, except the caged clown was so busy accelerating and looking for a gap on his left he gave a car stopped to turn right a major Liberace.

[Brian d marge]

just trolling around hinternet and found this ,,,,this is yur actual evidence as used by those in big grey offices ,,,to prove how good/bad people are at driving

Warning dont go to Greece ,,,and stay away from french boy racers around 18 yrs of age ,,,,,,,,

Stephen

http://www.bast.de/htdocs/fachthemen/irtad//utility/p107.pdf

http://www.bast.de/htdocs/fachthemen/irtad//utility/p127.pdf

[Skyryder]

Prior to the Amalgamation of the MOT with the police the standard of driving in New Zealand was not that bad. Christchurch has always had a reputation for poor driving but this (going by the posts) has been transmitted through out the length and breadth of NZ.

I am of the opinion that after the amalgamation there was very little road enforcment other than speed camera's and this trend a has continued up to the present day.

The only bad driving that is now 'enforced' is speeding. The general poor driving of New Zealanders has become so habitual that it is now endemic in the New Zealsnd phsyc. Untill such time the police begin to actively monitor and enforce the road rules (not just speed) outside of the 100 k zone this trend will sadly continue and it is the biker communinty that pays for this neglect.

Skyryder

[scumdog]

Not wearing seatbelts/drinkdriving/failing to keep left/crossing yellow lines etc. get just as much of my attention as speeding - but often all of the above are linked with exceeding the speed limit and if you looked at it this way:
Speed & no seat belt, speed & crossing yellow line, speed & drink driving as an example of the circumstances I stop people you would on the face of it think "Hmmm, he's targetting speed cos he's got three speeding offences but only one each of the others" - and at times that's the way it looks ( but I'm only speaking for myself,)

[Lou Girardin]

Not wearing seatbelts/drinkdriving/failing to keep left/crossing yellow lines etc. get just as much of my attention as speeding - but often all of the above are linked with exceeding the speed limit and if you looked at it this way:
Speed & no seat belt, speed & crossing yellow line, speed & drink driving as an example of the circumstances I stop people you would on the face of it think "Hmmm, he's targetting speed cos he's got three speeding offences but only one each of the others" - and at times that's the way it looks ( but I'm only speaking for myself,)

So how often do you sit at a likely spot and concentrate on nailing non left keepers or double yellow crossers?
A prime example that I've mentioned before is the speed traps on Exmouth St (A quiet suburban road) over the last month.
Less than a km down the road is one of the worst intersections for red light running, (and other things like reading the news while you drive) but you'll never see a cop stake it out.

[manuboy]

Agree with many posts in this thread. And am mystified by the same Q. Why o why are NZ drivers so bad as opposed to so many othe countries when really, we have no reason to be (in comparison)?

Hey! But has anybody tried this? You see some really dumb shit. Dumb enough to have almost caused you bodily harm. Instead of "doing the dance" and making sure the offender knows about it, you just smile, think to yaself "what a f**in cock" and then continue on ya merry way (till the next incident).

I say that because you can't educate NZ drivers. They won't learn. You can't do anything except keep yourself as safe as possible and not add to your own stress levels while doing it. I just take off with my driving superiority intact.


Less than a km down the road is one of the worst intersections for red light running, (and other things like reading the news while you drive) but you'll never see a cop stake it out.

You've got a point there Lou / Skyrider. I can never understand why known problem areas seem to be ignored when it would be so easy to sit in one place and nab people who are more likely to cause accidents than pure speeders...

[scumdog]

So how often do you sit at a likely spot and concentrate on nailing non left keepers or double yellow crossers?
A prime example that I've mentioned before is the speed traps on Exmouth St (A quiet suburban road) over the last month.
Less than a km down the road is one of the worst intersections for red light running, (and other things like reading the news while you drive) but you'll never see a cop stake it out.

I don't 'sit' anywhere but if I have time I could check and see how many I've pinged for the yellow linw/failing to keep left (cutting corners to you lot), I know it's quite a few - and I'm not 'over-zealous' about it.

Exmouth Street? It's in Kaitangata and I never even knew they had traffic lights there, hell I'll get down there tomorrow and start nailing those red light runners!!

Seriously, the one common thing I'm picking up from the various comments on this site is that we live in a different world down here when it comes to driving.

[Posh Tourer :P]

Where to go he thinks...

A. Plough into the lorry headon
B. Swerve to the right and head into a ditch
C. Swerve to the left and shunt the learner biker off the road

Guess which option he took. Poor Trainee 1 was in hospital for a few days... could have been worse, broken leg, couple of cracked ribs, but says he'll never ride again because of it.

Range Rover driver was going through court when I left to come over here, but they were throwing all sorts of dangerous driving charges at him.

Fair enough.. BUT... Here are my observations on why this might have happened.

1. Nobody overtakes on single carriageways. Probably due to limited opportunities because there is so much traffic coming the other way most of the time.

2. Everybody follows too close, regardless of intention to overtake.

Add those two together, and you get the situation where if you want to overtake, most of the time, you MUST, by necessity, overtake 3-4 cars at a time, just to find a gap to get back into... Also, because 2 is the case, it makes 1 worse, and because 1 occurs, there is rarely a problem doing 2....

Not in any way excusing Mr Range Rover, but it reminded me of this scenario I see all the time, particularly down the A11 through Thetford Forest, for those of you familiar with Norfolk...

[Drunken Monkey]

Was this the recent survey that NZ came second, behind the USA, for the worst road rage?

That's an interesting one. The US of A has quite a reputation for road rage. In my short experience (1 month in California/Nevada/Arizona), I encountered driving at a level of courteousness and road-rule awareness I've not seen anywhere else (except maybe Germany). Maybe it depends on when and where you drive there, and a month isn't really a long time, although 2 of my other friends have spent about the same amount of time driving there and had the same impression. I guess when they do road rage over there the violence level is higher, I've certainly read of road rage stories which involved the use of hand guns (scary stuff).

[Motu]

Sometimes the cops target the roundabouts in Carr rd for people going straight ahead in the left turn lane,easy pickings as it's almost constant.We get several crashes a day between trucks and buses and cars getting caught on the inside lane,and I was surprised that once when talking to a cop at one of them that they didn't consider it a high accident area.

Yesterdays one was a classic - some woman came through so fast in an Odyssey type thing that she took out a sign on the corner,speared off over the road and mounted the island taking out a couple of curb stones...then she just carried on! We were just standing there looking at the damage she had done when she came back the other way - ah good,she's come back to the scene of the crime.Her car was damaged on both sides and had a flat left rear tyre,on the rim.But she just kept going,down towards the motorway!!,flat tyre and all with kids in the car!! Oh,and the nationality? Indian.

[wendigo]

Yesterdays one was a classic - some woman came through so fast in an Odyssey type thing that she took out a sign on the corner,speared off over the road and mounted the island taking out a couple of curb stones...then she just carried on! We were just standing there looking at the damage she had done when she came back the other way - ah good,she's come back to the scene of the crime.Her car was damaged on both sides and had a flat left rear tyre,on the rim.But she just kept going,down towards the motorway!!,flat tyre and all with kids in the car!! Oh,and the nationality? Indian.

Fannytastic! - haven't read all this thread but this caught my eye. Brilliant. If I hadn't seen similar meself, I'd swear you were making it up!:rofl:

[NordieBoy]

I moved from Auckland to Nelson, and although Nelson drivers are a hell of a lot more courteous, and let people in, and aren't in any big rush, they are freaking hopeless at using their indicators, which can be twice as bad.

It has to be seen to be believed.

Going down Bolt Road from Stoke in the POURING rain.
Truckie from the car factory swings out into the middle of the road to turn right into Merhtin Street (so I thought - no indicators).
I accellerate up the inside as we're only doing 30kph.
He turns left...

One of those "Oh, I'm going to crash" moments.
On the brakes (this is on the VT250 with twin disk front) and managed to almost stop.
Caught the left rear corner of his deck on the fairing just in front of the right mirror and it scraped some paint off and slightly bent the fairing mountings - didn't fall off.
Waited 10 mins for him to come out of the shop.
"I went up back of your truck there mate"
"Oh no, I don't think you did"
Run hand along back of truck "Here's the paint from my fairing"
"Well you were going too fast" drives off (no indicators).



A lot of not indicating but also a lot of "I am going to turn/pull out as my magic indicator will protect me and create a gap".
Wait a few seconds, someone will let you in.

[marty]

i used to sit at the sh27/swamp rd stop sign - many bad crashes there from people not stopping on the swamp rd before crossing the highway. here i would be, in my lollypop car not 50m from the intersection, and people would still drive straight through. often i'd sit on swamp rd with the radar in stationary mode. best speed through the intersection, with a boat on, 60km/h. they had slowed from 100 though, so some credit to them. he got one for Dangerous. and being 50000kms over on his ruc.

most people would say 'oh there was no-one there so i thought it'd be ok'. well I was there you idiot. and how many times has someone said, after being t-boned in an intersection, 'oh i didn't see you'? no-one says 'oh i saw you but i thought i'd pull out anyway' do they?

[Grahameeboy]

In the UK Road Code it tells you the following:
- Look, Signal then Manoeuvre
In the NZ Road Code
- It says nothing and drivers generally tend to Manouevre, signal then look.
In the UK Road Code
- Do not alter direction if to do so will cause another driver to brake, swerve etc.
In the NZ Road Code
- Indicate for 3 seconds.....nothing about checking that you can actually change direction safely.

NZ has one of the lowest average speed limits, yet has one of the highest death rates per head of population. The UK has higher average speed limits and yes you have guessed it, has a lower death rate per head of population.

NZ Drivers are dream drivers as they do not have to tax their brains as much as you do in UK or Europe so they do not gain skills or awareness.

In the UK the fast lane is the fast lane doing around 90mph or 135kph.....this creates driving skills.

What can the Ltsa do...not a lot. A test does not get you ready for the road, however, I still think they should raise the driving bar to 17 and abolish the stupid 'Restricted Licence' where you can have 16 year olds driving on their own....I remember when I first arrived here 7 years ago I say some kid driving a 4wd and he could not see over the wheel...jesus!!!

But hey, stop complaining. We all know what drivers are like so we just have to anticipate more and lets face it we only have to be extra vigilent around town, not the twisties so our fate is in our own hands not some one elses.....I do not weave in and out of traffic like a lot of bikers here do which is just stupid man...you are asking for trubs and you cannot expect drivers to see you or learn respect.

That is my 2+ cents worth

[James Deuce]

s!!!

But hey, stop complaining.

Who's complaining? We're merely making observations about driving conditions, much the same way people make observations about weather. There's about as much "Intelligent Design" behind the average NZ Driver as there is the weather.

[Grahameeboy]

Observation is just a get out word for saying you are not complaining ain't it!!! and my reference to complaining is just another word for observing aint' it
....he he

[James Deuce]

Bah. You live in Devonport. That immediately invalidates any of your opinions, you fluffy cardigan wearing, organic food consuming liberal, you.

[chris]

Maybe a start would be to use the correct terminology for the motorway lanes? There is no 'fast' lane or 'slow' lane. You should be in lane one at all times other than when overtaking by using lanes two and three (called overtaking lanes funnily enough).

[Grahameeboy]

I look good in pink NZ wool ya know darling pie.........and hey I love Wellington and don't prejudge us in Devo.....my disabled Daughter also finds is easier to get around too..bah!!
London Boys rule.....if ever you are up here give is a bell and we can have a beer in the fluffy liberal pub we have here.....if you don't mind the cardy's...mind you some birds look good in cardy's!!!

[Lou Girardin]

Maybe a start would be to use the correct terminology for the motorway lanes? There is no 'fast' lane or 'slow' lane. You should be in lane one at all times other than when overtaking by using lanes two and three (called overtaking lanes funnily enough).

There is no requirement to keep to the left hand lanes on multilane roads in NZ. Unlike most of the rest of the world.

[chris]

There is no requirement to keep to the left hand lanes on multilane roads in NZ. Unlike most of the rest of the world.
That's not what it says in the Roadcode.

[Drunken Monkey]

A lot of not indicating but also a lot of "I am going to turn/pull out as my magic indicator will protect me and create a gap".
Wait a few seconds, someone will let you in.

Not saying it happened in this case, but from my experience driving commercials, drivers have nasty habbits of sitting in your (rather large) blind spots. All you can do is indicate for 3-5 seconds and start moving the van/truck over. Sometimes you hear a honk and get the finger, you shrug and drive on. Some people have no idea how little vision you have of vehicles around your rear quarters you have.
Not indicating at all is just being a wank though. Doesn't do the rest of the truckies any favours, for sure.

[James Deuce]

That's not what it says in the Roadcode.

Each lane on multilane roads is it's own highway in NZ. Blimmin' stupid. The roadcode comment is a "best practice" suggestion.

[chris]

Each lane on multilane roads is it's own highway in NZ. Blimmin' stupid. The roadcode comment is a "best practice" suggestion.

I know what you are saying, but in my opinion 'keep left unless passing' is pretty definitive.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/key-driving-skills/motorway-driving2.html

[James Deuce]

I know what you are saying, but in my opinion 'keep left unless passing' is pretty definitive.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/roadcode/key-driving-skills/motorway-driving2.html

It means keep left in the lane you are in. Motorcyclists can be fined for riding in the right hand wheel track of any lane. I doubt there is a cop who would try it on though.

[James Deuce]

if ever you are up here give is a bell and we can have a beer in the fluffy liberal pub we have here

Done! 1st round is mine.

[chris]

It means keep left in the lane you are in. Motorcyclists can be fined for riding in the right hand wheel track of any lane. I doubt there is a cop who would try it on though.
OK, maybe this will convince you.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/summary-of-changes.html

[James Deuce]

OK, maybe this will convince you.
http://www.ltsa.govt.nz/road-user-safety/new-road-rules/summary-of-changes.html

I'm not convinced and the reasons were detailed in the media at the time the change came into effect. Without changing the statute that defines a lane as its own highway it isn't enforceable, and certainly ISN'T enforced at all, except when a driver or rider crosses a centre line.

I'm all for it, don't get me wrong, but it isn't going to happen in NZ unless people get fined heavily for it and a motorway takes on the same status it has in, for instance, the UK, where the motorway in its entirety is the designated, numbered highway.

[chris]

I'm not convinced and the reasons were detailed in the media at the time the change came into effect. Without changing the statute that defines a lane as its own highway it isn't enforceable, and certainly ISN'T enforced at all, except when a driver or rider crosses a centre line.

I'm all for it, don't get me wrong, but it isn't going to happen in NZ unless people get fined heavily for it and a motorway takes on the same status it has in, for instance, the UK, where the motorway in its entirety is the designated, numbered highway.
I'm all for it too! For a driver to enter the motorway from an on ramp and then move straight over and sit in the overtaking lane is beyond me and creates traffic stacking. But, it still says what it says in the roadcode and some cocky arrogant policemenist is always gonna say 'have you read the roadcode sonny?'.

[James Deuce]

I'm all for it too! For a driver to enter the motorway from an on ramp and then move straight over and sit in the overtaking lane is beyond me and creates traffic stacking. But, it still says what it says in the roadcode and some cocky arrogant policemenist is always gonna say 'have you read the roadcode sonny?'.

I dread the Policemanist that take that approach too, but at the time Greg O'Connor assured us that they weren't able to police it effectively because of the conflict so they wouldn't. Which is a bummer, because I love driving on UK motorways, because you can usually overtake at will, so long as three llimited HGVs aren't trying to overtake each other at the same time.

[chris]

so long as three llimited HGVs aren't trying to overtake each other at the same time. HGV's are not allowed to use the outside lane in the UK and neither are cars towing trailers. But if you have the whole of the M6 trying to pass two HGV's lumbering past each other by using the outside lane, bingo, traffic jam.
I know exactly what you like about driving in the UK though.

[Grahameeboy]

I am pretty sure that after the new rule was introduced, the Ltsa did a slight about turn and said that the new rule did not apply to Motorcylist as they need to be more visible....it was in the paper a few months back and I am pretty sure it was in one of the bike mags.
Anyway, hopefully the Police will not do anything, however, it only takes one knobby eh?

[KLOWN]

Talking about 4x4 thinking they are 'the king of the road' I used to own a mini and was driving down manaku rd in auckland when a 4x4 pulled out from a side street on my right about 3 - 4 cars ahead of me, he went into the medium strip as there was no room on myside of the road then after the 3-4 cars ahead of me went by him he drove into the side of me. To cut to the chase, he did this because no one was letting him in:cry: and he believed it was his right that people who had the right of way (me) should have stpopped and let him in. What a dickhead!! He thought since i was a smaller car i would've stopped when he pulled out.

[KLOWN]

Oh, thought i might add my two cents:yes:

I believe, like many others, the problem with all this poor driving is too easy driving test and too crap teachers. I used the AA driving school to teach me to drive and basiclly all it intailed was how to operate the car, ie: clutch control, gear changing etc. I passed my test with a perfect grade! All i did was drive around for about 10min and parallel park. What a load of shit! a monkey could have passed the test. But what really gets me is the defensive driving courses where u listen to some guy blah blah then sit a test and voila! 9 months off till you get your full licence. Where is the teaching on the open road, where is the teaching on how to handle a car in an emergancy situation, overtaking, skidding the list is endless no wonder so many people can't drive. We are left to learn for ourselves and we don't think twice about going into situations that we aren't ready for ie driving on the open rd at night or in the wet, cause SHE'LL BE RIGHT MATE! If only the shit drivers killed themselves instead of taking everybody else with them we would have safe roads in a few years :yes:
I realise this is more than two cents worth but this is one thing i abhore

ps LTSA and thier stupid speed add campaign all thier ads are dumb specially the one with the jogger who runs onto the road without looking, she deservers to get hit.

[James Deuce]

Talking about 4x4 thinking they are 'the king of the road' I used to own a mini and was driving down manaku rd in auckland when a 4x4 pulled out from a side street on my right about 3 - 4 cars ahead of me, he went into the medium strip as there was no room on myside of the road then after the 3-4 cars ahead of me went by him he drove into the side of me. To cut to the chase, he did this because no one was letting him in:cry: and he believed it was his right that people who had the right of way (me) should have stpopped and let him in. What a dickhead!! He thought since i was a smaller car i would've stopped when he pulled out.

Nice one Motu! :2thumbsup

I hate that sort of stuff. Had it done to me by a school Mum, because, "Bikes are supposed to give way to cars". Uh huh.

[Lou Girardin]

That's not what it says in the Roadcode.

Read the legislation.

[chris]

Read the legislation.
What? Like every other average Joe car/bike owner will do. Most are just gonna read the Roadcode (well actually most obviously haven't or won't).

[Lou Girardin]

What? Like every other average Joe car/bike owner will do. Most are just gonna read the Roadcode (well actually most obviously haven't or won't).

So true.
But legislation is the font of all knowledge. (and stupidity)

[chris]

legislation is the font of all knowledge. I thought that was The Simpsons??

[Posh Tourer :P]

I thought that was The Simpsons??

No, no, Family Guy (and American Dad) are the new Simpsons, and therefore the new font of all knowledge, but Futurama was a better font of all knowledge than the Simpsons anyway.....