Helmet?

[kro]

I sincerely hope that the bloke who rode down Elms street to Morleys Honda today, on his CBR400 wearing a pushbike helmet, isnt too fond of his head, because there will be very little of it left, if he goes over.

Not impressed.

[Swoop]

Yep, they are out there...:doh:

[kro]

I sort of get tired of hearing the "one person gives all bikers a bad name" spiel, because it takes allsorts to make up a community, but this sort of thing really does give us a bad name I think.

What the hell kind of protection is a flimsy little polystyrene helmet going to give you?, hell I dont even feel protected on my push bike with one on when Im going 40kmh max.

[Motu]

If he dies a horrible death tomorrow you will be within your rights to say ''I told you so''....if he doesn't die a horrible death tomorrow,or next week,or next month....can he say the same to you?

[kro]

Motu, does playing devils advocate in the form of a question mean you have a no strong opinion either way?.

So jandals and shorts is all good too, as well as BMX gloves?. So for impressionable youngsters looking to see what they can get away with, this is the correct thing to be showing them.

I'd like to hear opinions.

[Motu]

I do have strong opinions,and one of them is you live your own life,not those of others,I like to let people make their own decisions in life...I don't tell them what to do.Millions of people,myself included have ridden motorcycles with no helmet,open face,pudding basin,whatever,with no harm whatsoever.It only becomes a problem if they crash,and even then,only if they hit their head on the ground,it's not an instant death sentance,or a gaurantee to live your life maimed.Are you asuming this guy is a bad rider,an accident waiting to happen,do you know the circumstances that lead him to wear a cycle helmet on his motorcycle?

[kro]

Good answer, not an opinion shared by me, but we live our own lives as you say. I think the circumstances remain irrelevant, so no excuse is really going to make any difference to my standpoint.

I have never been a fan of open face, or tinpot style lids, I think if tolerance is given to poor decision making, we breed a new generation of ill informed, ill prepared people. This is really what I was getting at.

My "prejudice" againt such helmeting decisions is based on the aftermath of acquaintances who have "excercised their right to wear inadequate head gear", and the ones still alive have deep scars and regrets to match.

[Ixion]

I always think it amusing that the squids who rush to condemn anyone not wearing the policically correct "gear", on the grounds that people should be responsible and take steps to ensure they are not injured, cost the tax payer money etc etc etc ; are themselves so irresponsible that they universally refuse to wear the one bit of gear that independant analysis has shown will reduce all injury by over 30%. So, how about it, me squidley friends. How many of you riding the high horse of disgust at the rider in the unapproved skidlid, wear a reflective jacket or vest (the hi-vis sort) and a plain white helmet? No? Too uncool? Prefer to take your chances of dying or being left a vegatable rather than comprise the "look" ? No vest - you're as bad as the guy in the push bike hat. You're not taking reasonble steps to mitigate iunjury. Those who live in glass houses etc.

FWIW, I wear the gear (mostly ) and the vest. And I don't judge or condemn those that don't (Unless they start the holier than thou bit first).

I'm with Mr Motu.

[kro]

Now we have a debate going, thats better.

Okay, Mr reflective vest, what body protection is the vest going to afford you?. You might be 30% less likely to be hit by a driver, but when you go down, you go down, simple as that.

I dont know where all this taxpayer nonsense comes from, I never mentioned that, I most often offer advice on the grounds that someone is kept from harms way, not out of some financial ulterior motive.

I like the rush to condemn comment too, here I make a comment about someones head gear, and you rush in and call me a squid (whatever that is), and condemn my point of view......... who's rushing to condemn who here?

I have seen a truckload of "binned my bike" threads on here in the last two weeks, I'd be keen on hearing their comments on good head gear .

[Motu]

I feel we have breed a generation of people who reley on hazzard awareness and steps being put in place for them to avoid any unsafe situation.These are the riders who ride down SH22 looking for signs of impending problems....unfortunatly,literaly - they are looking for road signs,a yellow diamond with a nice black arrow showing the appropiate curve,a suggested speed....slippery when wet....dip....road works....school bus turning etc.They have no hazzard recognition skills,that has been all done for them...they expect,they INSIST it is done for them.They are too trusting,and when it goes belly up...they are trained to go looking for something,someone to blame - but oh no,never themselves.

[Ixion]

I wear a full face helmet. Wore helmets even when they weren't legally required. But if you don't go down , that's 100% protection. No gear guarantees you're not going to die or be badly hurt if you crash. So NOT crashing is best of all. If a vest reduces the likelihood of crash by 35% , that's better than any gear. Though I'll still wear the gear anyway. Just in case. You're making the assumption that going down is inevitable.("when you go down") False assumption. Typical of squids.

But it's OK with me if you don't wear a vest. Just like it's OK with me if you don't wear a helmet. Like Mr Motu said "you live your own life,not those of others,I like to let people make their own decisions in life...I don't tell them what to do".

[riffer]

I tell you what really gives me the shits - it's the guys on their flash racing cycles and Mountain bikes that go down Ngauranga Gorge in the rush hour traffic - weaving in and out of the cars, and in the case of the Mountain Bikes jumping on and off the footpath that runs alongside the motorway, at up to and over 80km/hr at times - wearing lycra and cycle helmets.

[avgas]

They are too trusting,and when it goes belly up...they are trained to go looking for something,someone to blame - but oh no,never themselves.
Im such a cock.
From now on for everything that happens in the world blame me.
Makes it easier

[kro]

But it's OK with me if you don't wear a vest. Just like it's OK with me if you don't wear a helmet. Like Mr Motu said "you live your own life,not those of others,I like to let people make their own decisions in life...I don't tell them what to do".

So Ixion, if someone you love , or care about very much says they are going to do a video cam speed run thru Auckland city, with Jandals, shorts, t shirt and pushbike helmet, thats their choice, and you dont want to smother them or oppress them with your opinion?. Of course you wont say anything, because you cannot possibly tell people what to do, and even if you would say something, you won't admit it on here, because that would make you a towering hypocrite.

So when you get your bike back from the mechanics, and he has left a swingarm bush out, by your own admission, you would say nothing to him, because he has made his choice to not check his own work, and therefore you would accept the unsafe bike, and ride it.

I guess its not a surprise really, its a fairly typical standpoint among the ever increasing NZ wishy washy brigade, of PC flag wavers, who call a spade a "dirt redistribution tool", instead of a spade. The same people who are too scared of confrontation to stand toe to toe with a good mate and say " dude thats a f**king stupid idea, and don't come crying to me if you fall off" ( had to do this a few times, and its effective).
The same ones who smile and wave and pretend everythings ok, because they subscibe to a philosophy that people are inherintly good at making their own decisions, like is so prevalent in NZ with its zero murder, zero wife bashing, zero teenage pregnancy statistics.

[kro]

I feel we have breed a generation of people who reley on hazzard awareness and steps being put in place for them to avoid any unsafe situation.

You mean OSH in other words.

Training a newcomer in a printing factory, who is going to be operating the guillotine is wise.
Making that same person fill out hazard identification sheets week after week is OSH.

Hazard ID sheet (covers week 1 to week 247)
There's this big ass sharp blade on a table, that comes down when I push a button.

I agree whole heartedly Motu, but the reason we are at this point of OSH "over-the-topness", is because at some point, a guy on a CBR rode down Elm St wearing a pushbike helmet.....and fell off ......you get what I'm saying?....... by all means let people live their own lives, but if someone, somewhere, doesnt speak up that first time, then how will they know any better?.

[Motu]

You are still crashing this guys bike for him,and giving him severe head injuries - all in your mind,it's not real.It's true he was riding with a pushbike helmet,that's the only fact in this case.

[Dadpole]

My 2 cents worth. I am with Motu and Ixion on this subject. A suggestion to someone about protective gear is good, but i will not treat them like a baby-killer if they use their own judgement on the risks. I fully defend a persons rights to hurt themself in new and unusual ways - as I do my own.

[Ixion]

So Ixion, if someone you love , or care about very much says they are going to do a video cam speed run thru Auckland city, with Jandals, shorts, t shirt and pushbike helmet, thats their choice, and you dont want to smother them or oppress them with your opinion?. Of course you wont say anything, because you cannot possibly tell people what to do, and even if you would say something, you won't admit it on here, because that would make you a towering hypocrite.

Pretty much. People I love are smart. Unlikely they'd do that, if they did , they'd have their reasons. If 'twas because gear was not available, I'd offer it, if it was because of their choice, I'd respect that.Hard to love someone if you don't respect them.(Talking adults here, obvbiosuly, kids is another matter)



So when you get your bike back from the mechanics, and he has left a swingarm bush out, by your own admission, you would say nothing to him, because he has made his choice to not check his own work, and therefore you would accept the unsafe bike, and ride it.


Totally different matter. I'm paying him to do a job of work. If he doesn't do it professionally, I'd pull him up for it. If I was hiring motorbike couriers, and paying them to do a job or work, I might make it a condition of employment that they wear gear. Case you instanced is completely different, you weren't paying the guy.



I guess its not a surprise really, its a fairly typical standpoint among the ever increasing NZ wishy washy brigade, of PC flag wavers, who call a spade a "dirt redistribution tool", instead of a spade. The same people who are too scared of confrontation to stand toe to toe with a good mate and say " dude thats a f**king stupid idea, and don't come crying to me if you fall off" ( had to do this a few times, and its effective).
The same ones who smile and wave and pretend everythings ok, because they subscibe to a philosophy that people are inherintly good at making their own decisions, like is so prevalent in NZ with its zero murder, zero wife bashing, zero teenage pregnancy statistics.

Actually, you'd be the first person that's ever regarded me as PC. /me is the site Communist , remember.

[Motu]

I thought Kronos was taking the PC line,and we were taking the personal responsability stance Ixion - I think we were distracted when he was moving those 3 cups with the walnut...

[Karma]

Was it a good cycle helmet? did it have vents and padding and that or was it just a cheepy $40 warehouse jobber?

[MisterD]

I'm with Motu and Ixion on this one, but the problem with personal responsibility is that int how the system works in Helen-land. For everyone that injures themselves worse than they should our ACC levy goes up.....bin the ACC, make insurance compulsory to cover personal costs and we can all take the risks we wanna take secure in the knowledge that it's on us and only us.

[kro]

Now we have some opinions rolling in, this is much more interesting......

Hehe, Im too old to be PC, but I see what you're saying. It just seemed an odd thing that die hard bikers would consider this acceptable, when I see other threads by non squids decrying jandal wearers and the like, and I don't consider the very Americanised " i have rights" angle to cover it.

Mister D makes a good point re user pays insurance and ACC style things.

Ixion, why are kids another matter?, are they not allowed the same undeniable human rights to choose?. Thats very PC. Why would kids fall under a separate set of rules?, because they don't know any better?, or have not had proper instruction in whats a good and bad choice?, this could easily be mr cbr pushbike helmet too.

What I'm saying is that if noone has the stones, or cares enough to say something to someone about to make a bad decision, then what happens?, we let our mates/acquaintances endanger themselves because we think their human rights should allow them to do so........... enter the mate with 8 steinlagers under his belt who picks up his keys to go drive home..... thats right, he's free to make his own mistakes isn't he?. Sorry Motu, but this is not a danger in my head, personal experience, and endless road toll stats say the opposite.

Weasel, it was an HRC brand cycle helmet, about 45 bux worth.

[Motu]

In my utopia there would be no lawyers or insurance salesmen.They reckon the best safety device you can fit to a car is a 6in steel spike in the centre of the steering wheel - I extend that to bikes and say the best riding gear is a pair of shorts,jandals,t shirt and no helmet....I'd say very few mistakes would be made,no ''he just pulled out on me'' or ''I lost the front on pea metal''.If you hit a car and it's your fault,then you pay for the car repairs and fix your own bike....if they hit you they pay everything.I'd say we would see some very carful driving and riding.

[Ixion]

See, problem is , once you start deciding that you know best what's good for other people , where does it stop

I know quite a few people who think riding those stupid dangerous motorcycle things at all is a damn stupid idea and would like to stand toe to toe with you and say " dude thats a f**king stupid idea, and don't come crying to me if you fall off" . And tell you to grow up and get a nice safe car like every body else.

(Kids, 'tis parental responsibility and all that. Once they're of age, their call. Until then, they do as I do)

[Macktheknife]

Im such a cock.
From now on for everything that happens in the world blame me.
Makes it easier
OK THEN, but only 'cause you said to!
Lets start with the price of petrol.....
And then there's that whole Bush thing in the election....
Lets not forget the Moslem fundamentalist position...
Thats enough for now I dont want to get carried away or anything.:doobey:

[Jackrat]

Hmmmm,in 1975 I rode a Triumph Daytona (the real Daytona that is)from Christchurch to Auckland wearing a kids plastic helmet I'd shoplifted from a toy store.Hey,I'm not dead,the Triumph didn't breakdown an I didn't get sprung for either shoplifting or wearing an plastic kids lid.
Must be a bloody miracle,,,,quick call Zed.:whocares: :beer: