random..

[NotaGoth]

After a post today made on KB about "another biker down" it raised a serious question..


It was only recently that there was a big up-roar over a fellow KB member posting about another KB members accident.

So shouldn't the "don't post if it wasn't you" apply to posts made about random motorbike accidents also?

I mean "what if" the person IS or WAS a KB member and you just don't realize it yet, or WHAT if a KB member logs on here and sees that post, and thinks OH FUCK, my husband/wife, son/daughter, or friend was riding through that same area at such and such a time?

Red bling me if you like, but maybe thats ALSO something to think about..

[Magua]

If you're talking about the Truck vs bike poilce thingy then I think that's a little different.

I don't see why it shouldn't be posted. There's no info about who they are or suggestions of who was at fault.

[NotaGoth]

If you're talking about the Truck vs bike poilce thingy then I think that's a little different.

I don't see why it shouldn't be posted. There's no info about who they are or suggestions of who was at fault.

Ok here, I'll refer to "all" bike accidents.

Theres no info as to who they are CORRECT, but an accidents an accident. And a post like that if enough to "worry" someone.

Oh and how many cops on bikes are members here? Lets not forget about that either.

so I still stand by my "it should not be posted" theres no difference between these kinds of posts and posting about someone elses accident.

The person or persons involved could well be members here, or people who know them could also be members here. lets not forget that.

[onearmedbandit]

FFS, this is a motorcycle site, about all things motorcycles which while hopefully only involving the good times does also include the downside, accidents be they fatal or non-fatal. I will not post another members crash unless they ask me to do so, but otherwise I am certainly not going to tip-toe around the subject. If a fellow motorcyclist has gone down, then I see no problem in mentioning it on this site.

This is not a personal attack on yourself Kitti, just I think we're going down the wrong, maybe over-pc, path if no-one is allowed to post details of a motorcycle accident they heard about.

[NotaGoth]

This is not a personal attack on yourself Kitti, just I think we're going down the wrong, maybe over-pc, path if no-one is allowed to post details of a motorcycle accident they heard about.


I'm just questioning why it is ok to post about one but not the other, THAT confuses me now. :blink:

[notme]

If you're talking about the Truck vs bike poilce thingy then I think that's a little different.

I don't see why it shouldn't be posted. There's no info about who they are or suggestions of who was at fault.

Yeah, deliberately edited so that it would be that way.....and I PM'd a few people about it too with more info (rather than posting publicly).

I see your point Kittie....and I WILL think hard before posting similar again, but I must say I think it's awesome how KB'ers were calling each other and messages were flowing and txt's were sent and stuff to make sure everyone was ok.....

It's a delicate issue isn't it? :scratch:

[notme]

...........
Oh and how many cops on bikes are members here? Lets not forget about that either.
................

What's this one about and are our resident biker cops all ok????

EDIT: - or is it the wording of Magua's post that confused you - there was no "Truck vs police bike" incident that i have seen posted..... ? Magua means the "Truck vs bike" police comms centre email......

[NotaGoth]

Yeah, deliberately edited so that it would be that way.....and I PM'd a few people about it too with more info (rather than posting publicly).

I see your point Kittie....and I WILL think hard before posting similar again, but I must say I think it's awesome how KB'ers were calling each other and messages were flowing and txt's were sent and stuff to make sure everyone was ok.....

It's a delicate issue isn't it? :scratch:

I'm just trying to prove a point about the similarity in posts made now and previously, after an uproar started over one, yet now... *doesn't get that* hence I posted about this. sorry that it involved a post you made though, nothing nasty intended by it.

[notme]

FFS, this is a motorcycle site, about all things motorcycles which while hopefully only involving the good times does also include the downside, accidents be they fatal or non-fatal. I will not post another members crash unless they ask me to do so, but otherwise I am certainly not going to tip-toe around the subject. If a fellow motorcyclist has gone down, then I see no problem in mentioning it on this site.


I think it also in a very tragic way highlights the need for us all to keep in the forefront of our minds the fact that we are not in fact 10 foot tall and bulletproof. Maybe it's just me, but seeing this sort of thing every once in a while is sobering, rather than KB being all one sided and pretending that bad things never happen.

I totally agree with not posting too much detail, and I wish this thread had never had a reason for starting, I mean i wish like fuck that someone's brother, father, husband etc had not died today.

Losing someone from your life makes you question the very point of life (well me anyway), and i really truly feel for those involved.

:-(

[onearmedbandit]

Okay, try this.

Your friend who happens to be a KB member buys a new bike, something flash and worthy of discussion. Knowing that they will post about it on KB themselves, it would be considered rude etc to post about it first. Agreed?

Someone who you don't know, but while you're in the store, buys that same bike. Seeing that there is not many of these around, you consider it worthy of being posted. No problem with that, agreed?

Someone who is a member of KB buys that bike, you see it but you don't know them or recognise them. Once again you consider it worthy discussion material, post about it only to discover that they are a member of KB. 'Sorry about that mate, didn't realise you were a member here/etc'. No harm done, so while a oversight happened, you were not trying to steal their thunder, so once again no hartm done.

Apply that to the crash situation.

You post someone's crash here who is a member without their consent, bad.
You post someone's crash who isn't a member here, not bad just info sharing.
You post someone's crash who is a member, but you didn't realise, no drama.

As far as someone finding out here by accident that a friend/loved one/etc has been involved in an accident, what's the big deal? I've found out that friends have died through different means, when someone's told me in the 'right' enviroment, and per chance in general conversation. It doesn't matter, the blow is still the same. This is a community, a tight community, and communities talk. You wont stop that from happening, and to request it does is rediculous.


Upon joining KiwiBiker you agree to never talk about someone being involved in an accident as it may offend

Nah, doesn't sound right.

[Scorpygirl]

It's a delicate issue isn't it? :scratch:[/QUOTE]

Yeah mate, a really delicate situation. I have watched this debate with interest and don't know what the best answer is. Maybe ask Kwaka-Kid for his opinion on it and how he felt when he signed onto KB to see the police message posted about the death of his step-father, who WAS a KBer and was with other KBers when he passed away. I think we need to be as sensitive as we can be at times like this. Sorry if I have offended anyone.

Take care out there.

[notme]

Well said....I think the common sense point of not posting names, opinions of who was at fault and so on still stands though......hence why i tried to let the community know that an accident had ocurred, without too much detail....

Again - if it was a KB'er or anyone who has some sort of link to these posts I meant absolutely no offence or disrespect. :no:

[NotaGoth]

Well said....I think the common sense point of not posting names, opinions of who was at fault and so on still stands though......hence why i tried to let the community know that an accident had ocurred, without too much detail....

Again - if it was a KB'er or anyone who has some sort of link to these posts I meant absolutely no offence or disrespect. :no:

allun this wasn't intended against you so please don't take it that way. lets say I was having a dig at those who joined in on a dig, who then say nothing of any sort over a post like this which I felt is pretty much the same. :confused:

[notme]

No prob mate, as per my PM, some of this digs up things best left buried.
:grouphug:

[Ixion]

Ok here, I'll refer to "all" bike accidents.

Theres no info as to who they are CORRECT, but an accidents an accident. And a post like that if enough to "worry" someone.

Oh and how many cops on bikes are members here? Lets not forget about that either.

so I still stand by my "it should not be posted" theres no difference between these kinds of posts and posting about someone elses accident.

The person or persons involved could well be members here, or people who know them could also be members here. lets not forget that.

The original post was an excerpt of the PUBLIC press release made BY THE POLICE. It is made to the ENTIRE MEDIA - TV, all newspapers etc. It was on Stuff before it was posted here. It was already in the public domain, and I hardly think we need fear telling the police information they themselves have released.

How long do you wait until the dreadful secret can be whispered. Or do we all bury our collective heads in the sand and pretend that crashes never happen.

Look at it fromt he other side. If we are to have a blanket ban on any mention of crashing, we must also extend the same logic to injury from non motorcycle accidents, KBers who end up in hospital for non injury causes etc.


This purports to be a community. So what happens? I (hypothetically) end up in hospital (maybe from bike crash, maybe because I drop one of Mrs Ixion's fairy cakes on my toe, maybe becuse I have a stroke at the sight of my ACC levy, whatever). After a week or so, I escape. And get back onto a computer. Well, some community this was. No mention of my having grief , no good wishes , no "that's too bad". KB just ignored me. "Oh, well, yeah, some of us knew, but,y'know, we're not allowed to post about bad things. Cos it might upset people. Delicate folk, bikers".

Or, if worst came to worst, and I died - Mrs Ixion saying "Well, those KB people he thought so highly of obviously didn't give a stuff about him. Nobody even noticed or mentioned that he'd died".

Brutal fact people. Wht we do is dangerous. It can kill any one of us today, including me. If you can't hack that fact , time to hang up the helmet. Burying head in sand and pretending that crashes don't happen won't change the reality.

[NotaGoth]

The original post was an excerpt of the PUBLIC press release made BY THE POLICE. It is made to the ENTIRE MEDIA - TV, all newspapers etc. It was on Stuff before it was posted here. It was already in the public domain, and I hardly think we need fear telling the police information they themselves have released.

How long do you wait until the dreadful secret can be whispered. Or do we all bury our collective heads in the sand and pretend that crashes never happen.

Look at it fromt he other side. If we are to have a blanket ban on any mention of crashing, we must also extend the same logic to injury from non motorcycle accidents, KBers who end up in hospital for non injury causes etc.


This purports to be a community. So what happens? I (hypothetically) end up in hospital (maybe from bike crash, maybe because I drop one of Mrs Ixion's fairy cakes on my toe, maybe becuse I have a stroke at the sight of my ACC levy, whatever). After a week or so, I escape. And get back onto a computer. Well, some community this was. No mention of my having grief , no good wishes , no "that's too bad". KB just ignored me. "Oh, well, yeah, some of us knew, but,y'know, we're not allowed to post about bad things. Cos it might upset people. Delicate folk, bikers".

Or, if worst came to worst, and I died - Mrs Ixion saying "Well, those KB people he thought so highly of obviously didn't give a stuff about him. Nobody even noticed or mentioned that he'd died".

Brutal fact people. Wht we do is dangerous. It can kill any one of us today, including me. If you can't hack that fact , time to hang up the helmet. Burying head in sand and pretending that crashes don't happen won't change the reality.

and again I still don't see "the difference" sorry but I must be dumb, oh wait I am don't mind me.

[Ixion]

Well, I'm not sure that a difference is needed. But I can see two distinctions. One between "Hey nobody knows yet, but Joe's crashed" on the one hand and "I was very sad to see in the newspaper that Joe had crashed". No point trying to keep it secret once it's in the news. And one between a simple statement of fact " A biker hs been killed, our condolences" on the one hand and an analysis of how it happened, how it might have been avoided , why it need not of happened etc, bsed on guesswork and surmise, on the other hand.

[NotaGoth]

Well, I'm not sure that a difference is needed. But I can see two distinctions. One between "Hey nobody knows yet, but Joe's crashed" on the one hand and "I was very sad to see in the newspaper that Joe had crashed". No point trying to keep it secret once it's in the news. And one between a simple statement of fact " A biker hs been killed, our condolences" on the one hand and an analysis of how it happened, how it might have been avoided , why it need not of happened etc, bsed on guesswork and surmise, on the other hand.

"our fellow kb member >>insert name here<< crashed today"

"some random crashed and died today"

Was the possibility there that it could infact have been a KB member? YES.

Similar? Yes.

So whats not ok posting about someones accident? And what is ok about posting about someone who is dead after an accident?

I'm thinking about "what if" they are a member here. Or what if, they have family who use this site.

Its all the same sort of situation, and people moaned about people posting about peoples accidents. I know that was over and done with. BUT that just doesn't make sense to me.

Call me stupid, but its all pretty much similar situations. Other than the fact that the dead person may or may not be a member.

[NotaGoth]

*enters name*

*enters password*

*logged on*

*read post*

oh don't worry that was just possibly my uncle bill who passed through that area this morning.


Could end up being the same horrible way of findng out for someone, they "may have" left their phone at home, or not seen the news report.. or..


Need I go on?

[NotaGoth]

Just a thought, but who cares. I talk out my arse.

[SARGE]

when i die.. i want to be dried,ground up and i want all you cunts to smoke me:doobey:


(hope you're not doing anything for about a WEEK man....)

[NotaGoth]

when i die.. i want to be dried,ground up and i want all you cunts to smoke me:doobey:

thats.. well... "nice"... erm..

[Scorpygirl]

Just a thought, but who cares. I talk out my arse.


Don't you dare get yourself down. You were brave to start this thread.

[NotaGoth]

Don't you dare get yourself down. You were brave to start this thread.

I felt the need for a good beating lol

[SARGE]

thats.. well... "nice"... erm..


that would be nice actually... i'll burn with such a pretty blue flame..:blink:

[NotaGoth]

that would be nice actually... i'll burn with such a pretty blue flame..:blink:

pink flame would be much.. umm.. prettier.. :)

[Korumba]

The Net is a public forum, (read world wide) so anything and everything posted is up for quotation, copying etc.

What and how people post is out of our control, hence my views on other post on this subject...

I don’t believe that anyone here would post with ill intent to hurt or upset in this type of incident.

The world is a public place and more so with the net, I feel that any post on any recent incident involving harm or death be posted with some thought, but it has happened and it is now history.

[notme]

Call me stupid, but its all pretty much similar situations. Other than the fact that the dead person may or may not be a member.


Don't you dare get yourself down. You were brave to start this thread.



Yes you were brave Kittie, and mate, you're not stupid.

Forums such as KB are for open discussion, that's the POINT. The only thing we need to remember is that someone else's opinion is not WRONG just because it differs from our own.

[_Gina_]

What we are talking about here is basically a human nature issue, isn't it?
Then there is the whole internet side of it, which includes Kiwibiker, but also includes a magnatude of other media outlets on the net.

In principle I agree with what Kittie has to say.
In practice it is hard to administor.

The outcome from posting something that involves someone (KB or not) can potentially be alarming and/or upsetting or just down right offensive to them or their family OR it could be comforting, informative, supportive.....

On the other hand (four fingers and a thumb) what are our "group norms" within KB? Does everyone know and understand?

I wonder whether this is part (or all) of the point that you are making Kittie.
Definition of what is the "group norm" here with regard to accidents, injury and death?

10/4
Over and out.

[kro]

I don't see the harm myself, I work right on the Richmond Deviation (Nelsons name for a motorway), and see at least 4 to 5 ambulances scream down it daily, lights flashing, sirens blaring, and I often wonder if any of the dozens of construction workers and contractors whom I have become friends with, have had a concrete slab dropped on them, or been hit with a 20 tonne excavator bucket. What I'm saying is that its something we live with every day.

I think the level of comaraderie among the biking community is such that they care enough to make things like accidents known to all, it not only serves as a wake up call for some, but shows that people care. I don't think its ghoulish or dark in its origin, but stems from a genuine feeling for a fellow biker, who has been struck down.

I think that any immediate family member/relative would be notified promptly by the police, and they would be the first to know, and dont think there is harm in people posting the occurence here.

Just my 2c worth, and yes it is a gutsy thread kittie, I sort of know where you are coming from.