Holey Exhaust Collector Box Bat-Man

[RiderInBlack]

Just got a 90 CBR1000F. It has two holes in the exhaust collector box. Does anyone know a good (cheapish) place to get a replacement box or total exhaust system for this bike, or would I get away with just welding it :whistle: ?

[RiderInBlack]

Too bad, noone on this site has been of much help with this problem. Have put it my forth lot of "Kned-It" to temp block holes. No surprise the CRB spit it out going arounmd Puke last Friday:rolleyes: Did it again Saturday on the Wellford Poker run thrashing it between KKK and Wellford, but still could not hear it over the HD's:Pokey: Have planned to get the pipe works done probably by Custom Chambers (don't know where I'll get the money but) in AK after the Akarana Rage (26-28 March). I'll be stipping the bike down then and seeing what other jobs need doing :sweatdrop

[What?]

Too bad, noone on this site has been of much help
Shit - I missed your post, somehow.
I would have suggested Custom Chambers, so I reckon you are on track. I don't think you will find anywhere cheaper to do this sort of work.

[RiderInBlack]

Thanks What. Tried "Staintune" but they stopped making pipes for my bike last year and have none in stock. I am hoping to get Stainless Steel if there is not too bigger price difference.

[laRIKin]

Too bad, noone on this site has been of much help with this problem.

Sorry but I do not read all the posts.
You asked about welding up your pipe, well mate it's hard to say with out
seeing it.
But you should be able to weld it, but you may need a patch if the hole is to
big or the metal is to thin.
Hopefully the hole is not where you can see it and it will look ugly.
I would weld it, because I can and I'm sure that it will be OK.
After all it's going to be the cheapest and you have got nothing to lose, from
where I stand, after all the exhaust collector box is stuff anyway.
The box way distort abit so it may be abit harder to put back on.
I would try a sheet metal shop or a panel beaters shop for repairs, as they
are use to welding thin metal.
Hope this is what you wanted to hear, and this is of some help. :innocent:

[Two Smoker]

Thanks What. Tried "Staintune" but they stopped making pipes for my bike last year and have none in stock. I am hoping to get Stainless Steel if there is not too bigger price difference.
Custom Chambers did a nice job on my Dad's old XJ750, stainless, and changed it from 4-2-Collector Box-2 to, 4 into 2. I thought your bike was sounding a bit loud for a standard exhaust:yes: lol, but definately sounded nice, so maybe a whole new system?

[pete376403]

Staintune are very expensive - cycleworks quoted $3K for a full set for a GS1100. LeMans suggests welding - I agree, what have you got to loose?
If you're really cheap, like me, hire an oxy-acetylene set from HirePool and do it yourself.

[RiderInBlack]

Have gas torch here but thought it might just blow a biggger hole in it. I'll take the pipes out today and look. Maybe be able to braze it, otherwise would need MIG welder. A little worried the box is totally rotten. Money is tight, but would still like Stainless one day.

[laRIKin]

Have gas torch here but thought it might just blow a biggger hole in it. I'll take the pipes out today and look. Maybe be able to braze it, otherwise would need MIG welder. A little worried the box is totally rotten. Money is tight, but would still like Stainless one day.

Don't braze it mate weld it (or MIG). Use a small tip 6 or a 8 with a soft flame
Keep the rod close to the flame, and ever heat the rod abit and drop the hot metal around the edge of the hole and stop for a second to let the metal cool again. This will help you get a better edge to weld to and keep adding to that.
When you have a good edge, you'll be away :laugh: :lol: :banana:
Brazing is not a good idear, but can not remember exactly why :wacko: .
Someone please remind me :doh:

[Motu]

Brazing is not a good idear, but can not remember exactly why :wacko: .
Someone please remind me :doh:

Mainly because you can't weld over it again,so once you done the brazing bit,you're stuck with it.I only use braze to go over and fill up holes and smooth things out if it has to be fluid tight,or look good.MIG it using the same technique as lemans suggests....just a little on the edge,then stop and when the glow just fades,do it again,and again,until you have built up a soild edge to work with.It will look nasty on the inside,like a dead hedgehog...but you won't be spending much time inside your collector box...or will you?

[dangerous]

1st up Im not to fimiler with your bike Im thinking that it has a typical muffler type box underneth the bike. If this is whats buggered then try welding as you cant see it, can you?
Now if its the mufflers (cans) themselves and you are looking at a rebuilt pair then you may want to contact a Brisbane bloke who builds origional mufflers up.
He did some for my CX 500 turbo to look the same as the origional but were more like a moderen day race can inside.
He was cheaper than anywere here but then you have to add on the fraight costs. I was living there at the time even though the bike was in NZ.

[RiderInBlack]

Well thanks guys. Should have read a bit of this before taking to it with the torch:doh: ! There was f*cken holes all over the collector box. Run out of steel gas welding rod so cheated using arc rods with the flux knocked off it. Found some thin steel plate for the bigger holes, then run out of Acedolene before I had it finnish:Oops: Knead-It'ed the remaining holes until I can get to Town for some more gas. I'm a real butcher when it comes to welding. It is just as well the collector box is well hidden. Will get new pipe works done as soon as I can get the pinggers together (looks like a job for the VISA).

PS: Both the mufflers rattle, so the baffles must be loose as well.

[Holy Roller]

I used gas to weld up the holes on my XZ400, rather I used some steel corners that go over hardie plank weather boards, to cover the holes and welded that to the collector box. Looked quite good when finished. :Punk: Now I need to do something similar again for my XV

[pete376403]

When you were using the Hardies corners did the metal give off a lot of fumes / white smoke? If the metal is galvanised the smoke is zinc burning off. Its nasty shit to inhale, it will do bad things to your lungs. Worth keeping this in mind when looking for patching steel.

[Holy Roller]

When you were using the Hardies corners did the metal give off a lot of fumes / white smoke? If the metal is galvanised the smoke is zinc burning off. Its nasty shit to inhale, it will do bad things to your lungs. Worth keeping this in mind when looking for patching steel.
It was all I had ask any student about funds ;) then try it with a Mrs. and 5 kids. There was not lots of smoke but did the job outside, one doesn't always think about the hazzards. :no: But thanks for the advise will use better steel next time or just get the shop to fix it with a new or 2nd hand one.

[laRIKin]

Mainly because you can't weld over it again,so once you done the brazing bit,you're stuck with it.
I agree with you on that, but thats not the reason I was looking for.
It had something to do with exhaust gases reacting with the bronze, or
something like that. :wacko:

[pete376403]

I agree with you on that, but thats not the reason I was looking for.
It had something to do with exhaust gases reacting with the bronze, or
something like that. :wacko:
Oh I dunno - my Jawa speedway motor (4 valve) had bronze inserts in the head for the valve seats, Of all the things that upset my Jawa, exhaust gas reacting with the valve seats wasn't one of them.

And Rudge had a motor back in the 30s of which the entire cylinder head was bronze.
http://ulyssesnb.netfirms.com/classic_old/1933_rudge.htm

[laRIKin]

I just thought that you may not get a WOF if there was brazing on the
exhaust system. I know that when I rebuilt my racing sidecar, I brazed the
collector box to the headers. And one of old hands back then said that it was
not a good idear and one of my mates back then told me why, he is/was a car
mechanic.
I'll have to read up on my old books to find the answer now.
As you said an insert is OK and I agree.
It's more welding (brazing) up the pipe, is where the problem is.
I could be wrong. :doh:

Just read your article and it said "The 'semi-radial' aluminum bronze cylinder head"
Now there are bronzes and there are bronzes. I'm not trying to be picky.
Just trying to put this nagging thought to rest.

[What?]

It's coz exhaust pipes get hot. Very hot. And metal expands when it gets hot. But different metals expand at different rates, so the brass fix-it bit will fall out.
Of course, brazing would be fine on a brass pipe...

[Motu]

Well,the whole point of brazing is it's flexability,but an exhaust would have to get to red temp - and yes,that's possible,but not common,there is something wrong if that's the case.If a brazing job falls out just from expansion differentials then the job has been done wrong - there should actualy be a layer of molecular bonding at the joint,the two metals combined.I think that's one of the problems when brazing very thin worn exhausts,it actualy becomes one metal,sort of a matrix of steel and brass,and weaker than both metals.

All the old frames were brazed,but a lugged joint with the bronze in the lug.Later with Reynolds 531 and chrome moly frames there were two camps on how to join the metal - one said welding was too hot and damaged the metal,others said it was ok.My Rickman was a brazed Reynolds 531 frame,my Cheny 531 frame was beautifuly welded - neither broke,so both methods were strong that's for sure.

[Holy Roller]

It's coz exhaust pipes get hot. Very hot. And metal expands when it gets hot. But different metals expand at different rates, so the brass fix-it bit will fall out.
Of course, brazing would be fine on a brass pipe...
Or use an old coathanger for the brazing wire it worked for me anyway. No problem with the different metal types . Typical Kiwi she'll be right mate stuff :sneaky2:

[pete376403]

(See if I can remember what they told us at tech...) with brazing there is no combining of the dissimilar metals, there's still a distinct boundary between the bronze and the steel. Where there are two flat surfaces together there is a capillary attraction between them and its strong as (re your bronzed frame lugs) but with an edge butt joint (ie typical exhaust pipe) theres a much less capillary attraction. Another point, if you get the steel too hot the bronze volatilizes and the steel crytals end up with a coating of impurites, that greatly weaken the steel.
(Petone Tech block course 1972)

[laRIKin]

Well I can't find anything to say not to bronze weld an exhaust pipe.

I actually found in one book saying that you can, as long as it is clean.
So you do not get any impurities in the weld.
Which could be hard on a old dirty exhaust pipe and that maybe where the
problem is.

[Motu]

We're all trying to find these old books! mine are in storage,but I'll have a look in my workshop library tomorrow - Pete,one of my books showed a photo of a bronze welded joint,and there is a layer where both metals combine,the bronze actualy into the surface of the steel.
But I think you hit it when you mentioned overheating of the joint - this could be what is in the back of leman's mind.When brazing such a thin metal as worn exhaust pipe it's very easy to cook it,big smoky flare ups as the zinc burns out of the brass,overheated steel crytalises,the whole joint is just a metalurgal mess,both metals destroyed and no strenghth at all.Good enough reason not to do it!

[What?]

Somewhere in the above 24 posts lies the truth. Or maybe it's spread through the 24. My welding book doesn't mention brazing exhaust pipes, but does warn of the dangers of old hydrocarbon deposits when using oxy-acetylene and steel wire...

p.s. Bronze ain't Brass.

[laRIKin]

This is proberly a boring thread for most. :laugh:

Well I read the whole article this time.
In a nut shell he said that he would use brazing to repair small holes.
And use it to build up a web (for strength) around his TIG welded header
flangers. :spudwhat: This is not what I would call building exhaust pipes.
Like I thought when I first read the brief write up, before the main article.
Must remember to read the whole thing before opening mouth.
If you can find anything of interest Motu I would be interested.

[Motu]

This is proberly a boring thread for most. :laugh:

Well,I've thinking about welding - I don't do a lot these days,and when I do it's mostly with the mig.I'm not arty in any way,but to me there is something special about it - I say to my wife it's kinda like sewing...you cut out these peices then stich them altogether,and out of an apparent mess a shape takes form,and like sewing it's a practical form,something useful....maybe that's why I don't dig art,you don't create to use.Controling molten metal,knowing just how much heat,the flow of heat,so elemental - or like the dike welders I knew - such pretty sparks!

I have only seen one person who can match the perfection of the welds of the man who taught me.''do you move the torch around when you weld?,I don't,my hand shakes just the right amount'' Every weld would be inspected,then redone without rod until he was happy with it,then clean with a wire brush - just for a bloody exhaust pipe at 4.30! never rushed,never let an unperfect weld leave his hands.Every time I pick up a torch I can hear him tut tut the mess I make.

[FROSTY]

probably too late now but--I'd get a piece of panel steel the same size as the whole underside of the box and weld it all around.better sollution than trying to put in little patches

[laRIKin]

RiderInBlack I had almost for gotten about your pipe.
So what gives? fixed :D or F*****! :Oops: :crazy: :angry2: :no:

[RiderInBlack]

Ya, My butcher patch job is holding up so far. Much better with my welding now (thank guys). Still should replace it but am having a hard time just getting enough money to pay for rego (looks like I'll have to do that in 3month lots) and new tyres (would like to try some Diablos next). Just rekitted the slave brake cylinders and replaced the pads with cinted ones. Wont put cheap brake pads on my bikes now as I have had new mineral pads decintergrate on me (lucky they were on the back brakes, still not a good feel but).

[laRIKin]

Good to hear that your welding job worked :Punk: :2thumbsup .
I would keep patching it, at least for awhile.
So you can save some money, and get some more welding practise in.
After all by still useing the pipe, you can see if you did a good job ;) .

[moko]

Wish I`d seen your early post mate. David Silver Spares in London buy up crate-loads of old Honda spares from all over the world and might be able to help you.They`re very good value as well,only bummer is the freight charges.Wari got spares he couldn`t find anywhere else from them after me telling him about them and his 750 Hurricane was a model that was never even sold over here.

www.davidsilverspares.co.uk

Good people that will help you if they can.

[RiderInBlack]

David Silver Spares price for genuine Honda Exhaust Downpipes and Collector for the CBR1000FL: £155 (Approx $447.66NZ).
plus NZ Customs (quoted @ 7-10%). That means at the worse case another $44.77NZ. Raughly $492.43NZ before GST.
plus Shipping @ £135.90 (Approx $392.50NZ).
Total before GST (assuming the shipping quoted included insurance) Approx $884.93NZ
Including GST Approx $995.55NZ
Plus NZ Admin fee (ITF) of $18NZ = A grand total to import downpipes for CBR Approx $1013.55NZ

Same genuine honda part quoted from NZ Honda Dealer $1854.36 (excluding GST). Approx $2086.16NZ inc GST:finger:

Fuck we get done here in NZ!

[FROSTY]

I'd suggest giving custom chambers a call -I personally don't rate their mufflers but a balancer pipe I was told would cost you $350 and is made of car exhaust tube and you can have it coated in a bake on heat proof paint.
If ya want to see what im on about you are more than welcolm to see my xj600's system