It's official. NZ Police are retarded [Archive]

Finn

19th November 2005, 08:59

Although I'm not surprised. This and many other hair brained ideoligy from a left wing government. Most other countries are increasing speed limits. This is not about the road toll at all. It's about countrol and increasing revenue. I think a coup is in order... Idiots!

Extract from the NZ Herald...

Police want tough rules to lower road toll

19.11.05
By Ainsley Thomson

Police want the Government to lower speed limits, lower breath- and blood-alcohol limits and give all speeding motorists demerit points.

In its briefing to the new Government, NZ Police said strict new controls were the only way to meet the ambitious road safety target of reducing the road toll to 300 deaths a year by 2010, which is stipulated in the national road safety plan.

In the past 12 months 417 have been killed on New Zealand roads.

Police Minister Annette King will be advised over the next two weeks of the options to reduce the road toll.

A spokesman for Ms King said any measures would have to advance road safety and not just be a revenue-gaining exercise. Opposition MPs have repeatedly accused the Government of putting speed ticket take ahead of law-and-order.

Police say there have been considerable gains in recent years to reduce the road toll - in 2002 there was a 40-year low toll of 347 - but in the past two years it had levelled off.

It recommends the Government consider lowering speed limits and breath- and blood-alcohol limits, strengthening police capability to tackle drug impaired driving and increasing sanctions by giving all speeding motorists demerit points.

The police advice indicates the 10km/h tolerance policy police have operated since 2000 will be removed.

Pixie

19th November 2005, 09:11

SuperDave

19th November 2005, 09:16

You can just smell the bullshit this time.

quickbuck

19th November 2005, 09:18

SPman

19th November 2005, 09:43

What has done more to lower the road toll?
Vehicle technology has been the main factor in lowering the road toll in this and other countries!
Seat belts, airbags, structural stiffness and crumple zones, better tyres, brakes, and vehicle drivability and now, in Europe at least, the adaption of vehicle dynamic and adaptive control systems, to counteract loss of control in typical stupidity and bad road surface situations, is compulsory!
Draconian policing has a very limited effect, whatever the powers that be may say. After an initial success, because of the shock value, peoples resentments quickly build and lead to backlashes against the overhanded, repressive regimes that are being instigated ! It wont work, even medium term for roading, just as it doesnt work in any repressive regime at any level, in any country in the world! Measures like these are about CONTROL!, pure and simple. It doesnt matter what words you wrap them up in - safety of the citizens is the police and LTNZ's current catchcry, and as such, they will probably ramrod these bullshit measures through.
But, as with most measures being instigated, it is a kneejerk reaction, badly thought out, by people of limited vision or ability, designed to meet idealogical targets that are unrealistic and , under current thinking schemes, probably unobtainable.
We are being governed by second rate dickheads who are the usual - promoted to a level above their ability, and society as a whole is slowly paying the price!

Lou Girardin

19th November 2005, 09:48

The road toll dropped more between 1990 and 2000 when the cops were criticised for not doing enough traffic enforcemment than it has since.
Writing tickets for 11 to 15 k's over hasn't achieved squat except bucks for the Gummint.
They even want to remove the 10 km/h tolerance.
More runners anyone?
Typical mindless cop managers, if it's not working lets do more of the same.
Fuckwits.

WINJA

19th November 2005, 09:50

SPman

19th November 2005, 10:01

Another brilliant scheme to bring peoples opinions of the average policeman, even lower. Are the beauracrats in charge on bonuses, to come out with these simplistic half arsed power tripping schemes!
Beware of zealots in charge, because they have one track minds that refuse to see, nay, even realistically consider, any option, outside of what their narrow, blinkered brains are set on!

Coyote

19th November 2005, 10:06

The usual crap. They make a big deal of 300 deaths on the road,but 600 deaths from Prostate cancer is no big deal -"It is better not to test for prostate cancer"-Govt official policy.
Funny how it's a different story for the 600 deaths for Breast cancer,Could that be because it's a woman's condition?
Of course, traffic enforcement raises cash, medical treatment doesn't.
That is a really good point. It's not about saving lives anymore. Time for a right wing government (shudder) to set things right. If they sell schools it won't matter for me as I only have a few years left, and who needs healthcare anyway?

As for the breast cancer thing, breasts benefit everyone

Toast

19th November 2005, 10:34

THE WAIKATO ROAD TOLL IS TWICE WHAT IT WAS THIS TIME LAST YEAR AND THE ATTENDING AND SOLVING OF CRIME ARE AT A RECORD LOW , LIKE ANY BUSINESS THE POLICE SHOULD REALIZE THIS STRATEGY IS NOT WORKING , FUCK THE PIGS WHAT A BUNCH OF LOSERS , AND DONT BLAME THE POLITICIANS BLAME THE INDIVIDUAL PIG ON THE COAL FACE , BETWEEN THEM THEY CAN MAKE A DECESION TO DO THE RIGHT THING

Isn't that normally your opening statement WINJA? I guess you're being a bit more covert about your disgust today then...

In different words, I agree though...for whatever reason, be it lack of education, naturally narrow minds, laziness, morality judgement issues, a system that rewards career progression for bulk ticketing...whatever...

...the cop on the street is enforcing the letter of the law and neglecting the greater strategy tied to their job, being to protect public safety. It is horseshit, and it's got to stop. These pricks (and not all of them are, but there seems to be ever more) need to take a serious look at how the fuck they're doing their job. If their superior coerces them in to bullshit ticketing, it's not an excuse, they've got unions, and they need to grow a brain and a spine and take a stand...if not idividually, then collectively.

Come on coppers, I don't want to hate you, but as an organisation you need to sort your shit out.

PS: I'm with Alarumba, I bought my pink ribbon :niceone:

TLDV8

19th November 2005, 10:58

Tougher penalties will do jack to lower the road toll. All they have to do is analyse their statts properly and work out why the toll was lower in 2002, and do what was done then.
I believe the toll was lower then because it was the first of the petrol price hikes, and hoons couldn't afford to go out and waste gas.
They obviously have found a way now, and the roads are full of people out on unnessary trips. More vehicles on the road = more crashes = more of them fatal.

Strict policing has little to do with lowering the road toll.
A better way would be to spend time and resorses on education to drivers (and riders).

That is my two cents worth.

Pretty hard to argue with that:niceone: ..What are most of the fatalities,crashes from people being unable to judge distance and speed while overtaking or general lack of driving ability..people from larger cities who only know how to drive in straight lines in the dry up and down motorways,who then venture out of the city on weekends etc and then do not have the system to hold their hand..... God forbid even suggesting the problem is us,we as a nation seem to have to now blame someone as long as it is not us,blame the Police,the Government of the Day,anyone.... Draconian laws are normally a blanket effect in a effort to overcome a problem as a last resort,if people will not educate themselves,the law of the land will at the expense of those who do.......... You have to wonder,how hard is it to drive along the open road at a safe following distance at a reasonable speed,to overtake when it is safe with some regard of passengers and oncoming vehicles and to show a little respect for other motorist's ?....... I believe some Australian States now have a 0 speeding tolerance......... It seems to be forgotten, the primary reason for the road network is to travel between various centres ?...Of course there will always be the whingers,who can't figure out why the speed limit was set in the first place,what do you think would happen if the limit was dropped and there was no policing ?...I will continue to travel at speeds i think are safe and do not endanger other members of the public,if they are above the posted limit that will be a risk i take.

curious george

19th November 2005, 11:14

DONT BLAME THE POLITICIANS BLAME THE INDIVIDUAL PIG ON THE COAL FACE , BETWEEN THEM THEY CAN MAKE A DECESION TO DO THE RIGHT THING
Actually, they probably can't if they want to keep their jobs.
My guess, if you read between the lines of the article, it's the pollies who have made this admirable road death reduction target, and because it's easy to police, and makes good political points, it's done with gusto.
That much I'm sure you know already.
The way I read it, it, the commanders are saying, "This is what the Govt has decided to be the most important thing for us to do with our time".
Untill the tissue wringers decide violent crime is more important than speeding, the Govt won't change it's attitude, so speed will remain the focus, and you can burgle any house you want and not get caught, so long as you don't speed away from the scene.....:doh:

sAsLEX

19th November 2005, 12:27

who can't figure out why the speed limit was set in the first place
when was it set? back in the dark ages pretty much with rugged goat tracks as roads. No one could convince me that roads such as the new expressway in the waikato are deadly beyond 100kmh or that they really need two or three cops patrolling that deadly stretch of wide, seperated lanes

Sketchy_Racer

19th November 2005, 14:49

all this is absoute bullshit!! it is all a new way to make more money not to "save lifes".

do you really think cops care?? huh?? they dont know them they dont care if some hillbilly dies they dont!!
thats why they dont care if you $3000 bike gets ripped off they might, if you are lucky, come round ans ask one or two questions about it- thats it!
they dont want to help you find your bike that you just saved up for 2 years cause it dont make them any money does it?? NO
and i know that if am ever caught doing "hello officer" speeds i will always run fuck teh bastards they will prbably impound my bike and then go have fun on it after they have finished thier shift

we need to band together as a community of bikers and do something about this!! you can do anything you put your mind to so lets do something eh??

cheers, Glenn

WINJA

19th November 2005, 14:54

Actually, they probably can't if they want to keep their jobs.
My guess, if you read between the lines of the article, it's the pollies who have made this admirable road death reduction target, and because it's easy to police, and makes good political points, it's done with gusto.
That much I'm sure you know already.
The way I read it, it, the commanders are saying, "This is what the Govt has decided to be the most important thing for us to do with our time".
Untill the tissue wringers decide violent crime is more important than speeding, the Govt won't change it's attitude, so speed will remain the focus, and you can burgle any house you want and not get caught, so long as you don't speed away from the scene.....:doh:
IVE PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE A FEW TIMES NOW TO DO THE RIGHT THING , I DONT ACCEPT IT AS AN EXCUSE, ESPECIALLY FROM THE PIGS

Swoop

19th November 2005, 15:16

when was it set? back in the dark ages pretty much with rugged goat tracks as roads. No one could convince me that roads such as the new expressway in the waikato are deadly beyond 100kmh or that they really need two or three cops patrolling that deadly stretch of wide, seperated lanes

Another person that has noticed that when you have a dangerous twisty road, then it gest "improved", widened and straightened - the morons LOWER the speed limit on that road.....:bash:

Ixion

19th November 2005, 15:25

That may not be as silly as it sounds. A very bad, broken up twisty road may actually be quite safe. It is so obviously bad that everyone takes care, and the corners and bad surface mean that very few people actually do the allowed speed limit on it.

Improve it, and people think its safer and go fast - too fast. Also, when "improved" more people will travel on it. And, whereas before only competant drivers would venture onto such a frightening road, once improved every bunny around will hurtle off down it. One reason why I object to gravel roads being sealed. It attracts bunnies.

N4CR

19th November 2005, 15:30

That may not be as silly as it sounds. A very bad, broken up twisty road may actually be quite safe. It is so obviously bad that everyone takes care, and the corners and bad surface mean that very few people actually do the allowed speed limit on it.

Whoa... good point man. Never thaught of that - that problem is what keeps many people going like hell on some roads, the dodgy surface means you will probably kill yourself if your speed ain't in check.

kro

19th November 2005, 15:58

He's 100% correct too Tristank, have spoken to an officer in a small town i used to pass through for years, and asked him how many people had been killed on this small piece of elevated road, with lots of bad corners, and he said for the 15 years he had been in the town it is near, that noone had been killed on it, because of exactly the reason Ixion said.

SPman

19th November 2005, 16:20

So - there's the answer!
Build more tight twisty roads! :blip:

curious george

20th November 2005, 13:44

IVE PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE A FEW TIMES NOW TO DO THE RIGHT THING , I DONT ACCEPT IT AS AN EXCUSE, ESPECIALLY FROM THE PIGS
But that's the exception, rather than the rule.
There is always discretion, but when your job for the day is to get 100 speeders, and you return with 10, your boss wont commend you on a job well done because you 'did the right thing'.
The speeding campaign is a political one, police budgets and numbers depend on it.
Do you really think that most of todays ploice joined up to write traffic tickets?
No way, it's do drive really really fast with flashing lights and sirens, and being able to bash some bastard burgular who has just raped your dog.
That's policing, ticket writing is for the meter maids.
You can thank the National Govt for merging the two....

Sniper

20th November 2005, 14:05

Oh yay, so maybe I won't be able to fight the next ticket for a tinted visor. Shit, why is it mandatory to have people with an IQ of less than 50 in goverment doing what they "think" we want.

vtec

20th November 2005, 17:32

But that's the exception, rather than the rule.
There is always discretion, but when your job for the day is to get 100 speeders, and you return with 10, your boss wont commend you on a job well done because you 'did the right thing'.
The speeding campaign is a political one, police budgets and numbers depend on it.
Do you really think that most of todays ploice joined up to write traffic tickets?
No way, it's do drive really really fast with flashing lights and sirens, and being able to bash some bastard burgular who has just raped your dog.
That's policing, ticket writing is for the meter maids.
You can thank the National Govt for merging the two....

You're missing Winja's point george. Winja is pissed at the cops who say "just doin' ma job". Cause they are given a position of power over the public, and ticketing people in areas that have unreasonably and unjustified speed limits just cause its easy quota, is in my opinion bullshit. If I were in a position with as much powers as police have, I'd make it my duty to enforce laws only in situations where real risk occurs. As it currently stands, the cops are being given more and more powers (ie. boy racer act) to nail people for doing anything. And because they've got such high quota's they are nailing people for anything and everything. Things like "unnecessary acceleration", which i reiterate is bullshit. There was no actual research done to prove that acceleration is dangerous, plus it's entirely subjective. They can now confiscate your vehicle for just accelerating quickly up to the speed limit. And as things stand some of the cops are using these laws to their advantage. This is just an extreme example. There are plenty of way less damaging examples I could go into, but everybody know's what they are anyway.

My point is that I agree with Winja's stance on hating police for unecessarily flaunting their powers for quota's. And using the excuse "just doing my job" doesn't solve anything. Given a position of power, the one who uses the power's should be the one who questions them the most, cause they are the ones doing the deeds.
Drug dealers could say the same thing. Their bosses told them they had to sell 1 kg of smack per week, and don't blame them, they are just doing their jobs. It's their bosses fault for giving them the quota.

curious george

20th November 2005, 19:04

Cause they are given a position of power over the public, and ticketing people in areas that have unreasonably and unjustified speed limits just cause its easy quota, is in my opinion bullshit.
I think I understand Winja, but perhaps I'm not making my point very clear.
Dedicating so much police power to speeding = huge amount of bullshit. Agreed?
I would rather they solve the huge number of unallocated cases floating around they havent even started yet!

Given a position of power, the one who uses the power's should be the one who questions them the most, cause they are the ones doing the deeds.

But in this case, the officers have fairly limited power, as speeding has been made a priority, and because of that, they have to catch speeders.
That's what the job entails, if you don't like it, leave the force, which I'm sure some have.
The people with the power are the ones behind the desks and in parliment.
The people driving (no pun intended) this are a not on the roadside doing the deed.
I'll try an example:
If a nurse was to give a charted drug that was incorrect, that order should (and must be) questioned.
If there was a mistake, it will be corrected before meds given, and correct ammount re-charted. Nursing continues.
If nurse decides that morphine was a bit excessive, and uses lavender oil instead, that nurse probably wont have a job much longer.
There is a process to follow here, and any change must come from the top down.
The top people often make mistakes, that's what public inquiries are for, but for the front line people to make a unilateral decision to stop giving morphine or speeding tickets just isnt right either.

Da Bird

21st November 2005, 00:07

They can now confiscate your vehicle for just accelerating quickly up to the speed limit.

Sorry, you are wrong on that one... you must accelerate to a speed in excess of the posted speed limit to be charged and have your vehicle impounded.

BC.

avgas

21st November 2005, 02:23

So - there's the answer!
Build more tight twisty roads! :blip:
Pity those assholes at Transit Planning and management are trying to make motorways of the whole place. Been throught Karangahape gourge of late?

Kwaka-Kid

21st November 2005, 05:29

IVE PUT MY JOB ON THE LINE A FEW TIMES NOW TO DO THE RIGHT THING

But you are a pimp WINJA, you the man and them hoes just listen to you :nono: u tell 'em!

Lou Girardin

21st November 2005, 07:29

Ixion is correct to a point. When that second rate road starts carrying traffic numbers beyond it's capacity the danger increases with the likelyhood of vehicles hitting each other.
I have no problem with Transit upgrading the main highways, there'll always be twisty's for us to enjoy.

heavenly.talker

21st November 2005, 07:35

..people from larger cities who only know how to drive in straight lines in the dry up and down motorways,who then venture out of the city on weekends etc and then do not have the system to hold their hand.

Excuse me...are you sure that you live in New Zealand sir?
There is not one place that could be called consistently dry!

tracyprier

21st November 2005, 08:59

Indy can't have read this thread yet but if he had I'm sure he would say, "Welcome to Helengrad"... right Indy???

And I'd agree with him.

N4CR

21st November 2005, 09:21

Sorry, you are wrong on that one... you must accelerate to a speed in excess of the posted speed limit to be charged and have your vehicle impounded.

BC.

That is not including the tolerance limit i'm guessing?

So here is me, on the right hand side of one car in the lane (within the law etc) and between another at the lights and I let rip with an awesome drag style launch and top out at 49kmh infront of the local constabulary.
No charge can get me?

As long as the car does not race me I'm guessing.. then you can get done for racing :lol:

Xtat1k

21st November 2005, 09:41

they really are idiots, all it is is another money making scheme by the government, what a crock of shit. just like they want to add more taxes and fees for road use, the bastards:finger:

Deano

21st November 2005, 09:52

Sorry, you are wrong on that one... you must accelerate to a speed in excess of the posted speed limit to be charged and have your vehicle impounded.

BC.

I thought the boy racer legislation prohibited excessive acceleration ? Not sure if you could lose the vehicle over it though.

Biff

21st November 2005, 11:49

Yet another proposed policy that will further alienate the police from their public.

"I know, instead of upgrading the roads and improving driving standards by making the licence application process harder, let's just charge people more money should they travel faster". What a load of crap.

How does this help protect us bikers against corner cutters, sudden lane changing, prat cagers talking on their mobile phones etc? New Zealand has a reputation for poor driving standards. And this isn’t because people drive in excess of the posted speed limits.

Improving driving standards is the only way to reduce the road death and injury toll. And the toll will keep rising until someone in authority listens to common sense, instead of repeating this shite every 6 months or so. Do some proper research you short sighted, narrow minded prats.