Police headquarters aren't retarded.

[Lou Girardin]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.

[heavenly.talker]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.


Ah...so you were watching that spout of drivel on breakfast this morning too?
If you believed his wording...there was one instance of 31 mins!

[scumdog]

Ah...so you were watching that spout of drivel on breakfast this morning too?
If you believed his wording...there was one instant of 31 mins!

Been times when 'somebody' forgot to put in that the job had been attended and resulted, all of a sudden they wake up when according to the clock the job hasn't yet been dealt with - and has been in the system for 138 minutes.:doh: (just for an example).

[sAsLEX]

Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?

late news his wording suggested just one wrong call had been included and had thrown the stats way off :nono:

welll didn't some gunnmint promise more coppers??

[mattt]

late news his wording suggested just one wrong call had been included and had thrown the stats way off :nono:

welll didn't some gunnmint promise more coppers??

Yeh there's a big fuckoff drive for recruits on now, forget the no. but hundreds of newcops over next 4 years.

Also, not the cops fault regarding the 111 system, they employ the same monkeys that you talk to when you dial up pizza hut etc Call centre staff on $fukall/hr in some room in some building behind some computer somewhere.

[ManDownUnder]

Hang about - what do they say about lies, damned lies and statistics?

I'm not saying the 111 system is perfect, but I AM saying the press' appropriate use of stats isn't.

Something more useful would be the average times for calls that passed screening, qualified as urgent and were subsequently dispatched to the appropriate service

MDU - yet again... 5c poorer...

[heavenly.talker]

Totally agree that this doesn't reflect on the hard work of the crew in blue...the thing that bugged me is the spokesperson couched the message in such a way that it looked sus!

[Swoop]

Irena Asher.

111 = dial a taxi. Did the police actually learn anything from that debacle???

Also, all the "promised" new numbers of "front line police officers" is now being changed to "staff" by the government.
Which means more paper shufflers and less actual crime being solved.
Well, surprise surprise...:doh:

[sAsLEX]

continually being bombarded with the LTSA's rubbish stats its nice to see the gunnmint being handed some back!


But I do agree with scumdogs point

[tracyprier]

Well here goes...

I believe it is time we as a country started REALLY talking about the rights of self defense. Over many years those in power have sold us this lie that we don't need to be able to defend ourselves, that is what the Police are there for.

This is not a dig at the Police at all, I have a high regard for our coppers.

Nowadays we are seeing more and more evidence that this whole concept of the Police protecting us is a lie. How can they possibly protect every single person? This would only work if there was a cop standing guard outside every house.

Am I saying we should all be able to carry guns??? ... no. What I'm saying is that we as a society need to start talking about the issue of self defence instead of continuing on with this flawed idea of protection from some outside agency.

diatribe ends...

[Karma]

See I woulda serious considered being a copper, if it weren't for the fact that you're not allowed to do the job they pay you for.

To protect and serve... where does this apply in your everyday jobs?

Perhaps the coppers on here could shed some light on it... if you apply a +1 to any positive encounter you have during a day and -1 to the negatives, what's your average score for a day?

The one thing that would really get me is that people would be smiles to your face, but then really different underneith. For instance, if I invite a copper mate of mine around to my house for a BBQ is he going to say something about my (alleged) stash of music and DVDs which may or may not be legally copied ;)

It's a tough one... very little respect for the coppers, and it's not their fault, OVERTHROW THE GOVERNMENT!!!

[scumdog]

See I woulda serious considered being a copper, if it weren't for the fact that you're not allowed to do the job they pay you for.

To protect and serve... where does this apply in your everyday jobs?

Perhaps the coppers on here could shed some light on it... if you apply a +1 to any positive encounter you have during a day and -1 to the negatives, what's your average score for a day?

!!!

You mean we're allowed to have POSITIVE encounters?? well wizz my britches, they never told ME that!:thud:

[Lou Girardin]

Hang about - what do they say about lies, damned lies and statistics?

I'm not saying the 111 system is perfect, but I AM saying the press' appropriate use of stats isn't.

Something more useful would be the average times for calls that passed screening, qualified as urgent and were subsequently dispatched to the appropriate service

MDU - yet again... 5c poorer...

This was a Police survey, it counted the time from when the job was passed to a cop until he arrived. It didn't include time for the call to be answered.

[Lou Girardin]

You mean we're allowed to have POSITIVE encounters?? well wizz my britches, they never told ME that!:thud:

I hear you have yours when you get home.

[scumdog]

This was a Police survey, it counted the time from when the job was passed to a cop until he arrived. It didn't include time for the call to be answered.

Sometimes that arrival time doesn't get logged (as per my earlier post) due to this obscure item called 'human error'.

[scumdog]

I hear you have yours when you get home.

Now ain't that the truth!:msn-wink: :blip:

[spudchucka]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.
Funny how stats and reports are foolproof when quoted to strengthen an arguement but utter bullshit when quoted as a means of discrediting another persons arguement.

We had the same thing in my district a year or two ago (around the time of the Asher girl stuff up). There was a rescue / body recovery job on Mt Taranaki that took about a week to attend to because of apalling weather. That one job stuffed the average response time to well over the required level. Remove the stats for the job / jobs in question and the response times fall within the required levels again.

This is more about a lack of real news and desperate journalists trying to satisfy their editors than it has about anything tangible relating to 111 emergency response times.

[Colapop]

Sometimes that arrival time doesn't get logged (as per my earlier post) due to this obscure item called 'human error'.

THere are too many idiots out there getting themselves in the shit that are 'Human Errors'

[TLDV8]

welll didn't some gunnmint promise more coppers??

Going by some of the dribble written on this site,who in their right mind would join up :doh:..all i ever see is bash the cops...the cops didn't come immediately since my uninsured,no alarm house got burgled..some cop busted my ass when i was going faster than the speed limit..etc etc :2thumbsup i'm on my way now to join up :rofl:..

[Lou Girardin]

Funny how stats and reports are foolproof when quoted to strengthen an arguement but utter bullshit when quoted as a means of discrediting another persons arguement.

We had the same thing in my district a year or two ago (around the time of the Asher girl stuff up). There was a rescue / body recovery job on Mt Taranaki that took about a week to attend to because of apalling weather. That one job stuffed the average response time to well over the required level. Remove the stats for the job / jobs in question and the response times fall within the required levels again.

This is more about a lack of real news and desperate journalists trying to satisfy their editors than it has about anything tangible relating to 111 emergency response times.

Your bosses released the stats. Then they tried to bullshit us when they realised how bad they look.
Can't get more tangible than your own info Spud.

[Ixion]

Actually, as far as policing goes, the whole response time thing is a crock. It's an admission of failure to start with, because it pretty much means that a crime has been committed. If someone's been murdered, having the cops get there in 10 minutes rather than 20 minutes misses the point. No matter how fast they get there, the victims's still dead. Same for any other crime. Once the crime's committed the damage is done. It's a failure for policing.

The BEST policing is when crimes don't happen in the first place. You don't get bashed, your house doesn't get burgled, your bike doesn't get stolen, nobody crashes.

That's why the "copper on the beat" (which I suppose nowdays is General Duties) is worth far more than the detective., The latter only has a job to do once policing has already failed. Never going to be perfect, so some detectives, "I cars " etc will always be needed. But the more of them there are, the more importance there is placed on "response time" , the more you know that policing is failing.

Problem is that the copper who prevents a crime just by being there , in the nature of things , gets no credit. He can't go back and say "Hi Sarge, I prevented 50 crimes on my shift today". So the detective , who can say "IO solved 6 crimes today" gets the kudos.Modern measurment of police "effectiveness" depends on having a high crime rate , which is why you won't see crime rates comiong down. There's too much unrecognised

[spudchucka]

Your bosses released the stats. Then they tried to bullshit us when they realised how bad they look.
Can't get more tangible than your own info Spud.
What bullshit? Show me how, where or why you know it to be bullshit.

[WINJA]

They think we are.
They're trying to say that a survey on 111 response times, showing that Counties - Manukau averages 31 minutes, is flawed because of a glitch that saw some non-urgent calls included.
Do the expect us to believe that a few irrelevant calls is going to raise the average of thousands of genuine calls from 13 to 31 minutes?
One things for sure, if you live in South Auckland, buy a gun.
IM TRYING TO BUY A GUN AT THE MOMENT IVE BEEN DECLINED A LICENCE 3 TIMES , FUCKIN PIGS , FUCK WAIT TILL I GET MY GUN

[spudchucka]

The police hierachy need things to measure so that they have something to report on to Govt and show them what good pricks they are.

Things like response times and tickets issued are easily measurable whereas community policing projects and other crime prevention measures are extremely difficult to measure.

I do however think that it is appropriate to set goals in relation to response times and to review performance. Priority one jobs can effectively be anything involving serious risk to persons or property. It could be a drunk or mentally impaired person walking along a busy road, a suicide attempt, a domestic, a car crash, burglars on, a shoplifting, a missing child etc etc etc. People call for help for all manner of things, not just murders and other crimes where rapid response will make no difference to the victim involved.

As a side note, don't expect the crime rate to drop when we get more cops on the streets. More cops out and about means that there are more sets of eyes out there detecting and responding to incidents and more cops writing reports of incidents that would have otherwise been writen off due to under resourcing.

[Patrick]

.... More cops out and about means that there are more sets of eyes out there detecting and responding to incidents and more cops writing reports of incidents that would have otherwise been writen off due to under resourcing.

And more snakes to spread about...and bloody long lines at the donut shop!!!

[Skyryder]

Am I saying we should all be able to carry guns??? ... no. What I'm saying is that we as a society need to start talking about the issue of self defence instead of continuing on with this flawed idea of protection from some outside agency.

diatribe ends...


Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

[WINJA]

Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer.

Skyryder


WELL DER YA FUCKEN MORON OF COURSE YOUR SAFER IF YOUR ARMED , IF SOME DICK IS WALKING UP MY DRIVE WITH A KNIFE OR GUN AND I GET OUT MY GUN THEN IT EVENS THINGS UP , MAYBE TO THE POINT WHERE THE OFFENDER LEAVES.
ID MUCH RATHER TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR MY FAMILIES SAFETY ,THE PIGS ARE NOT RELIABLE AND EVEN IF THEY WERE THET CANT BE THERE WITHIN TEN SECONDS .
YOU SOUND LIKE A PUSSY TO ME SKYRYDER

[tracyprier]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder
Here's some advise Skyrider; READ THE FUCKING POST PROPERLY BEFORE RAVING AT PEOPLE !

What did I say?? I said that I was NOT talking about everyone walking around "tooled up".

The law on self defense in this country is an ambiguous nonsense with no clear cut definitions of "reasonable force" or "immediate danger".

Take recent cases of farmers shooting at people trying to steal their quad bikes. Some get off, some get charged.

And you actually think that, at 2am when someone is looming over you with a basball bat that a call to the Police is going to fix everything?

Even the fastest cop in the land will only arrive AFTER you have had the snot beaten out of you.

And that is nothing compared to farmers etc who live miles from the nearest Police station. What are they supposed to do in between the call and the 45 minutes it takes to get out to their place?? Ask the home invaders to just hang on for a bit while the Police arrive??

Wake up man, the Police cannot protect you from attack and it is unreasonable to expect them to.

THAT is why I say we as a society need to bring this subject out into the open and start having some proper, reasoned debate about just what we should expect the Police to be able to do... and what we should be taking responsibility for ourselves, you know that old concept... personal responsibilty.

[Lou Girardin]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder


It will definitely make us safer in our homes from external threats. It's been proven in the States many times.
The danger then arises from within the family, accidents, armed rages etc.
but I'm damned sure that in the unlikely event of someone breaking into my home, he will not be walking away. Crawling and screaming, maybe.

[Karma]

Any citizen that is carrying a weapon, be it a knife or firearm is a danger to their fellow citizens. The idea that we here in New Zealand need to start talking about this subject, simply because the Police have not got the lid on the 111 system is symptomatic of many New Zealanders ignorance on this subject. Does annyone here realy think that arming yourself is going to make you or your family safer. Does anyone think that once the citizenry of this country once armed, that the criminals are going to be too scared to illegaly arm themselves.

THERE'S ENOUGH FUCKING DANGERS OUT THERE NOW WITHOUT ADDING ANOTHER ONE TO WORRY ABOUT.

If you realy want to know how the looney brigade thinks on this, log on to some American militia forum sites.

Skyryder

Hmm... It's not an easy answer.

There is obviously the fact of personal and family protection, but you have to consider the escalation factor as well.

If we all start carrying guns, they'll get bigger guns... hmm.

As far as I'm concerned all we own is material. Would you really risk a gunfight with someone just because he wants your TV? It's an invasion of privacy and theft for sure, but it's still only a TV.

Seems like this country (in my limited experience of it) is getting more like America every day, and perhaps not in the better ways.

[Lou Girardin]

Would you really risk a gunfight with someone just because he wants your TV? It's an invasion of privacy and theft for sure, but it's still only a TV.


How many burgalries turn into something far worse when crims meet the occupants?
What if some pond scum breaks into your place and decides he wants a piece of your girlfriend/wife/mother?
Are you going to dial 111 and wait for them to find the resources?

People I know thought they could rely on the Police, he was beaten to a pulp while his wife hid in the bushes unable to call the neighbours because the 111 system locked her cellphone.
They won't be asking questions next time, probably be shooting first.

[Waylander]

Also, not the cops fault regarding the 111 system, they employ the same monkeys that you talk to when you dial up pizza hut etc Call centre staff on $fukall/hr in some room in some building behind some computer somewhere.
Oi I resent that! Hey there is an dea actually, wonder if I can get a job at the 111 call centre...

[Lou Girardin]

Hey lou,

we do respond to burglaries in the first instance as a top priority, if it is a "burglars on" in that the break has just happend or is happening while the person calls up.
The only reason there is a delay is if its an old burglary (few hours) then its not worth taking a front line unit off the line to do your report when that unit may be needed for something more serious. There is a special squad set up for burglary investigation, and they get assigned to it when they start work in the morning.

No doubt. Equally there's no doubt that the scenario I described happened. The Bentley case near Rotorua. Maggie bentley could have got assistance from the neighbours far quicker than the Police response. But she was prevented from calling them.

[scumdog]

No doubt. Equally there's no doubt that the scenario I described happened. The Bentley case near Rotorua. Maggie bentley could have got assistance from the neighbours far quicker than the Police response. But she was prevented from calling them.

Tragic though it may be but it was ONE case out of how many?????

[idb]

Well all I can say is that I think I should be able to arm myself but I'm buggered if I want to see the same right extended to every other idiot!

[scumdog]

Well all I can say is that I think I should be able to arm myself but I'm buggered if I want to see the same right extended to every other idiot!

Quite right, I know YOU are o.k and of course I'm the same but as for those other idiots.....

[Lou Girardin]

Tragic though it may be but it was ONE case out of how many?????

I don't know how many in total, but there have been several other instances of people choosing to defend themselves rather than wait for the Police.
McIntyre in Northland
The shooting of an 'enforcer' in Helensville.
Burglar shot in Mt Wellington

[scumdog]

I don't know how many in total, but there have been several other instances of people choosing to defend themselves rather than wait for the Police.
McIntyre in Northland
The shooting of an 'enforcer' in Helensville.
Burglar shot in Mt Wellington

Shut up you fool before the gummint realises this and decides they need even fewer Police.:msn-wink: