Suspension adjustments - need wheel stands?

[Toast]

I'm just about to adjust the set-up on my 636, in the hope that it won't shake my body or the steering head to pieces next time I ride it on country back roads...

There should be no dramas in adjusting stuff while the bike is just on the side stand, right?

I'm not trying to set the sag and height or whatever for now...just going to try the defaults off www.sportrider.com

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_susp_settings/#kawasaki

Cheers

[vifferman]

No, it should be fine. Except I've found that their settings are a bit on the stiff side, either because they've got big donkeys or asses they put on their bike seats, or they've set them up for the track.
If I were you, I'd note their settings, then go slightly softer. Or conversely, if you are pillioning a big donkey, mule or ass, try their settings, then back them off a bit when you've delivered the quadruped to wherever it's going.

[bugjuice]

nah, you don't need stands etc to set that up..

a good place to start (if you haven't dicked with anything at the moment) is to set everything to the middle. So wind in the preload, rebound etc etc all the way one way, then count the clicks back all the way. Then click half the total amount back. Then ride it, and adjust one thing at a time while you're out riding and see how that feels..

Or go somewhere like your link (I posted the link too, then saw you found it!) and have a go at their settings to see if that makes it any better.

But before you start, write down the settings as they are now, so that should you just cock it all up completely, you can go back to how it was before..

what year is your 636 then?

[bugjuice]

No, it should be fine. Except I've found that their settings are a bit on the stiff side, either because they've got big donkeys or asses they put on their bike seats, or they've set them up for the track.
If I were you, I'd note their settings, then go slightly softer. Or conversely, if you are pillioning a big donkey, mule or ass, try their settings, then back them off a bit when you've delivered the quadruped to wherever it's going.
suppoesdly, Kawa set up the ZX6s and ZX10s for a 70kg 5"10 rider on the race track. Can't remember where I heard that, but I guess they have to start somewhere. The stock settings aren't too bad for me, but I found that none of the settings on the forks matched either side..

[Toast]

No, it should be fine. Except I've found that their settings are a bit on the stiff side, either because they've got big donkeys or asses they put on their bike seats, or they've set them up for the track.
If I were you, I'd note their settings, then go slightly softer. Or conversely, if you are pillioning a big donkey, mule or ass, try their settings, then back them off a bit when you've delivered the quadruped to wherever it's going.

Cheers Viff. For their '03 test they had the front forks at full soft on compression damping, so I guess the bike is just too much of a hard bastard.

As it stands now, the thing is just waaaay to hard. This is kerry g's old bike, and he's 100kg (I'm 80, and I think he made it harder than standard). Can't go far wrong from their settings, then ride it for a coupe of weeks and see how it is.

[dawnrazor]

I'm just about to adjust the set-up on my 636, in the hope that it won't shake my body or the steering head to pieces next time I ride it on country back roads...

There should be no dramas in adjusting stuff while the bike is just on the side stand, right?

I'm not trying to set the sag and height or whatever for now...just going to try the defaults off www.sportrider.com

http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/146_susp_settings/#kawasaki

Cheers

I was always led to believe that the weight of the rider had a pretty major influence on the settings for all aspects of suspension adjustment, but they make no reference to rider weight. I'd clearly mark the original settings before any adjusting if i was you, chances are it could be worse with these settings and you might want to go back ot factory presets (bareing in mind this is an american publication, aimed at american spec bikes).
Alternatively approach your local friendly bike shop and they should set up the suspension for you, its not it takes long.

[Toast]

suppoesdly, Kawa set up the ZX6s and ZX10s for a 70kg 5"10 rider on the race track. Can't remember where I heard that, but I guess they have to start somewhere. The stock settings aren't too bad for me, but I found that none of the settings on the forks matched either side..

Mine's an '03...so practically identical to yours as far as I know...'cept it's red, so slightly less....mmm...special :)

My mate's got an orange one like yours, and I find the stock settings pretty good on that, but then I never rode it outside of the city I don't think.

Mad cool bike, God it turns in quickly!!!! On SH16 when the road smooths out and tightens up and you hit the hills...it was in-f%$ncredible!!! Tank slappers galore and a very battered body over the rougher parts though, hopefully this morning's attempts will fix that.

[bugjuice]

I was always led to believe that the weight of the rider had a pretty major influence on the settings for all aspects of suspension adjustment, but they make no reference to rider weight. I'd clearly mark the original settings before any adjusting if i was you, chances are it could be worse with these settings and you might want to go back ot factory presets (bareing in mind this is an american publication, aimed at american spec bikes).
Alternatively approach your local friendly bike shop and they should set up the suspension for you, its not it takes long.
there's a few things they don't refer to, which would influence the setup, like the two most important things - the rider weight, and the tyre info.. they say the tyre type, but 636's come stock with 65s on the front, which is often replaced with a 70 tyre, cos not many road tyres are available in 65, which changes things again..

they're a good start tho, so it's something.

Also, I found they had different settings for the 03 and 04 bikes. I thought they were both the same bike pretty much, but on the 03 they found the shocks were too hard for general use, so they modified the internals on the 04 bikes, thus the different settings between the two

[bugjuice]

Mine's an '03...so practically identical to yours as far as I know...'cept it's red, so slightly less....mmm...special :)

My mate's got an orange one like yours, and I find the stock settings pretty good on that, but then I never rode it outside of the city I don't think.

Mad cool bike, God it turns in quickly!!!! On SH16 when the road smooths out and tightens up and you hit the hills...it was in-f%$ncredible!!! Tank slappers galore and a very battered body over the rougher parts though, hopefully this morning's attempts will fix that.
we need to go for a ride ;)

also read my reply above..

[Toast]

we need to go for a ride ;)

also read my reply above..

Oh ok, never realised they changed stuff for '04. I just thought that it was a different tester that year, who wanted it set-up differently (or different weight).

I realise that these settings aren't going to be perfect, due to the multitude of considerations for set-up...but like I said, it's been made harder than standard, so I reckon I can't really lose, and this will be a better place to work from than what it is now.

Def catch you for a ride some time BJ... :)

[bugjuice]

Oh ok, never realised they changed stuff for '04. I just thought that it was a different tester that year, who wanted it set-up differently (or different weight).

I realise that these settings aren't going to be perfect, due to the multitude of considerations for set-up...but like I said, it's been made harder than standard, so I reckon I can't really lose, and this will be a better place to work from than what it is now.

Def catch you for a ride some time BJ... :)
well that's the other thing that I was thinking about the two settings too. Different riders? same rider, over a year, has a different pref..?? could be a whole range of things. But then you have to think how minor or major that would impact the settings. I'm still playing with mine, but haven't for a while. Just carry a small flat-head screw driver in your pocket, then every time you stop (not every two seconds, like every hour of good riding), make a minor change and see where it's going. I've managed to work out some huge slaps to minor ones, but then I changed the tyres, and I can get some mean ol' slappers going.. Some of the top bods reckon you can set up almost any bike so you don't need a damper. But I ain't a top bod yet..

actually, I might do a quick one on saturday morning if you're keen

[Toast]

well that's the other thing that I was thinking about the two settings too. Different riders? same rider, over a year, has a different pref..?? could be a whole range of things. But then you have to think how minor or major that would impact the settings. I'm still playing with mine, but haven't for a while. Just carry a small flat-head screw driver in your pocket, then every time you stop (not every two seconds, like every hour of good riding), make a minor change and see where it's going. I've managed to work out some huge slaps to minor ones, but then I changed the tyres, and I can get some mean ol' slappers going.. Some of the top bods reckon you can set up almost any bike so you don't need a damper. But I ain't a top bod yet..

actually, I might do a quick one on saturday morning if you're keen

If I can help it, I'd rather not go the damper route...prefer the natural way.

This bike has opened my eyes though...I reckoned they were a bit unnecessary after riding my old '02 6R about 15000kms, despite the odd slapper on that. The '03/04 is a different league of power and sharpness though (not necessarily quicker on the road).

A quickie on Saturday? Where to?

[bugjuice]

northish.. saturday am
just fancy a quick blat, with just a few others. no idea who yet, so it'd be cool to catch up

[vifferman]

Yes, the rider's weight is important, and the preload at least can be set to accommodate this. On the VFR (prolly the same for 636?), you just set sag with the rider on to around 25-30mm. You can do this by putting a zip tie around one fork leg against the slider, then sit on the bike, then hop off again and measure the distance between zip tie and slider.
On the rear, there's a variety of ways to do it - I just used a long (1 metre) aluminium ruler, and measured against a reference point at the rear (bolt on the packrack, I think) relative to the floor.

Some other things I've found that can make your suspension too harsh:
1. Chain too tight (binds up rear swingarm movement).
2. Front forks not straight. After my tyres and brake pads and head bearings were replaced, the front fork action was much more supple.
3. Wrong weight of fork oil / old fork oil / too much fork oil.
4. Dirty and/or corroded bearings/shims/moving parts in the rear suspension components. If these are quite worn, some parts may be binding on one another.

Just because your fork caps are the same height, it doesn't mean everything is straight at the other end.
An easy way to check fork height alignment is to take the front wheel off, then use the front axle in the fork sliders to make sure things are aligned. Slightly loosen the triple clamp bolts on one side. Tap the loosened fork up or down until the axle rotates freely in the axle clamps.
The alignment of the forks in the triple clamps for 'parallelness' can be done by eyeballing them, and if not straight they can be fixed by slightly loosening the clamps and tweaking them.

[Toast]

northish.. saturday am
just fancy a quick blat, with just a few others. no idea who yet, so it'd be cool to catch up

For sure...PM me or stick it in the meetings and events thread. You can gimme some tips on getting to know these beasts :niceone:

[bugjuice]

For sure...PM me or stick it in the meetings and events thread. You can gimme some tips on getting to know these beasts :niceone:
done. i'll pm ya in a bit

[Dadpole]

RE: alignment of the forks
The best method I have found is to cut a piece of glass just small enough to cover the forks, then hold one side against one fork and use the smallest feeler gauge yo have to see the other fork has no gap. (if you get what I mean)

Use 5mm glass if you can. 3mm or less is not always perfectly flat.

[Hoon]

a good place to start (if you haven't dicked with anything at the moment) is to set everything to the middle. So wind in the preload, rebound etc etc all the way one way, then count the clicks back all the way. Then click half the total amount back. Then ride it, and adjust one thing at a time while you're out riding and see how that feels.

Yes this is a good place to start but don't make the same mistake I did and interpret that as a safe setting. The ohlins rears adjust to about 40 clicks out on rebound and compression which makes the middle about 20. This is still way too soft for most bikes (check the sportsrider link above you will see the average is about 10 clicks out which is way firmer). I was wallowing all over the place (even raced the whole season like that!!) and wrongly diagnosed the problem as a too light rear spring which I assumed must be set up for a 75kg rider. I then bought a 90-95kg spring, went to swap it out and lo and behold it was the same as the one already in there!!! Thats when I back tracked and revised my preload/rebound/comp settings and now I'm running 5mm sag, 12 clicks rebound, 10 comp on the rear which is much better!!

My point is, yes its a good place to start but like Bugjuice says make sure you do take the time to adjust it afterwards (like that day!!!) as all shocks are different and middle of some maybe totally extreme on others.

Ohh and if anyone is after a 150mm ohlins spring (fits most bikes ohlins) for a 90-95kg rider for $100 - send me a PM.

[bugjuice]

oh yeah, by all means don't leave it.. or if you have to, make sure you get back to it asa, it isn't something that should be dicked with lightly..