MotoGP going 800

[tracyprier]

Can anyone tell me what has prompted MotoGP to change to 800cc in 2007??

Heard it was happening but not why.

Thanks

[jrandom]

The real problem is that the smaller manufacturers were starting to creep their performance levels up close to the Honda V5s.

Now that entirely new engines (and therefore bikes) will need to be designed, the big manufacturers will once again have a couple of 'Pass Go, Collect $200' seasons where they get to piss all over the teams who can't afford to mount their riders on fully developed bikes.

In 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' marketing-speak, this is called 'fair play'.

[White trash]

The real problem is that the smaller manufacturers were starting to creep their performance levels up close to the Honda V5s.

Now that entirely new engines (and therefore bikes) will need to be designed, the big manufacturers will once again have a couple of 'Pass Go, Collect $200' seasons where they get to piss all over the teams who can't afford to mount their riders on fully developed bikes.

In 'Win on Sunday, sell on Monday' marketing-speak, this is called 'fair play'.

Not being one for conspiracy theories, I think you're full of shit.

The MotoGP head honchos wanna slow the bikes down. This is the easiest way they think it can be done.

[Motu]

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a loop hole that allows Ducati a 400cc and weight advantage.....but it's probably there in the small print somewhere....

[TwoSeven]

Too much power being delivered on the bike making them unsafe. Its to do with wossnames (kato) crash is what I heard.

[tracyprier]

Oh right, thanks guys, wondered if it might be a power-thing.

[jrandom]

Not being one for conspiracy theories, I think you're full of shit.

Yeah, but you think that anyway.

It's why my eyes are brown, see.


The MotoGP head honchos wanna slow the bikes down. This is the easiest way they think it can be done.

Betcha that within two seasons, lap times on the 800s are the same or better than they were this year.

[cowpoos]

there is no reason why a 800 cc 4/5 cylinder engine [or ever 6] can't make the same hp as the 1000cc bikes...but it will behave like a twostroke and require a new set of skills...that alot of the long term 4 stoke riders will have problems dealing with...its no wonder riders like casey stoner and dani perdrosa have been fast tracked in to MotoGP...as there skills as twostroke GP winners/skilled riders are going to be incredibly handy for developing the new bikes...topspeeds won't alter much...but with the less spinning interia in a smaller engine we should see higher corner speeds and faster line changes...so the bikes will ultimitly be faster...I also have a little hunch that suzuki will do well with the new rule change...and possibly kawasaki might be a little more compeditive than they have been in the past decade...

[cowpoos]

Yeah, but you think that anyway.

It's why my eyes are brown, see.



Betcha that within two seasons, lap times on the 800s are the same or better than they were this year.

eyes are the window to the soul...hmmm...looks like your BROWN EYES is diplaying whats behind them...lol...


and yeah...I'll hate to do this...but yes fish...it won't slow the bikes down...but I think they'll be faster in the first season...than the 1000's

[cowpoos]

I'm a bit surprised there isn't a loop hole that allows Ducati a 400cc and weight advantage.....but it's probably there in the small print somewhere....

Hmmmm....funny how when honda switched to the v-twins [sp1 and sp2's] in WSB...they won two championships and then the rules changed...

[jrandom]

there is no reason why a 800 cc 4/5 cylinder engine [or ever 6] can't make the same hp as the 1000cc bikes...but it will behave like a twostroke and require a new set of skills...

Yup, wot the cowpoos man says.

Look at the KW/cc of the 3L Formula 1 V10s, then compare them to the existing 990cc MotoGP engines.

There's still a fair bit of horsepower efficiency headroom for the design engineers to draw on, there.

I do reiterate my earlier point, though - the smaller engines will necessarily end up with more advanced materials and technology, faster, and that will inevitably benefit the better-resourced teams. It's not a new point; everyone's been saying that since the 800 rule came out.

And I would be very, very surprised if the GP bosses hadn't thought of that in advance.

[SimJen]

Rossi's team reckons the smaller size will lead to similar lap times.....but the bikes will be harder to ride so more (than currently) electronic aids will be required. This won't favour the smaller teams as they struggle to keep up with engine performance anyway and in no way can they afford the electronic R&D.
WCM had a fast bike that was often quicker than all the others through the twistier parts of the tracks but ultimately the engine was a dog and they had no traction control (although one of the riders used a thumb brake like Doohan used to, to control the power).
Unfortunately it could make the racing look a bit stink.....in the last year we have seen less of the sideways powerslide action of previous years as traction control systems sort it all out for the rider. Most teams have also been running launch controls.
Hopefully it doesn't get like formula one.........bring on 2006 :)

[SimJen]

Hmmmm....funny how when honda switched to the v-twins [sp1 and sp2's] in WSB...they won two championships and then the rules changed...

Difference being, WSBK is run by an italian.....

[cowpoos]

Difference being, WSBK is run by an italian.....

true...I did not know that....makes sence... :2thumbsup

[cowpoos]

Rossi's team reckons the smaller size will lead to similar lap times.....but the bikes will be harder to ride so more (than currently) electronic aids will be required. This won't favour the smaller teams as they struggle to keep up with engine performance anyway and in no way can they afford the electronic R&D.
WCM had a fast bike that was often quicker than all the others through the twistier parts of the tracks but ultimately the engine was a dog and they had no traction control (although one of the riders used a thumb brake like Doohan used to, to control the power).
Unfortunately it could make the racing look a bit stink.....in the last year we have seen less of the sideways powerslide action of previous years as traction control systems sort it all out for the rider. Most teams have also been running launch controls.
Hopefully it doesn't get like formula one.........bring on 2006 :)

WCM's engine was a R1 engine with a different gear box...and I believe it suffer alot because they weren't alowed to race for 6 or 7 seven rounds in 2003 because it wasn't a prototype engine or something...so have been behind ever since...I read somewhere that they have a new engine for next season though...a 6 cylinder I believe?

[SixPackBack]

An interesting point made by Honda in relationship to the change to 800cc is that they expect to loose up to 20% power, but regain up to 5% a year after that. Those with the deepest pockets will 'buy' back horsepower that much quicker and in a few short years the bikes will be going as fast if not faster, however all manufactures agreed to such a move as well leaving more question's than answers !

[Ivan]

WCM's engine was a R1 engine with a different gear box...and I believe it suffer alot because they weren't alowed to race for 6 or 7 seven rounds in 2003 because it wasn't a prototype engine or something...so have been behind ever since...I read somewhere that they have a new engine for next season though...a 6 cylinder I believe?

Are you sure I thought it was the gearbox was R1

[onearmedbandit]

Are you sure I thought it was the gearbox was R1

Rep points to Google:

Harris WCM site (http://www.harriswcm.com/NEWS04.htm)

Motorcycle Daily (http://www.motorcycledaily.com/11february03harriswcm.html)

[TwoSeven]

Yup, wot the cowpoos man says.

Look at the KW/cc of the 3L Formula 1 V10s, then compare them to the existing 990cc MotoGP engines.

There's still a fair bit of horsepower efficiency headroom for the design engineers to draw on, there.

I do reiterate my earlier point, though - the smaller engines will necessarily end up with more advanced materials and technology, faster, and that will inevitably benefit the better-resourced teams. It's not a new point; everyone's been saying that since the 800 rule came out.

And I would be very, very surprised if the GP bosses hadn't thought of that in advance.

Yep, I would agree - i've heard some gossip about them retuning the torque characteristics to allow them to simulate two-smokes more effectively.

[gav]

No, the real reason is because 800cc is the best size for a motorcycle, trust me, everyone will want one soon! :blip:

[cowpoos]

No, the real reason is because 800cc is the best size for a motorcycle, trust me, evryone will want one soon! :blip:

errrr.....are you expecting your bike to start appreciating or something...lol

[White trash]

No doubt, within 2 seasons the bikes will be just as fast, just more difficult to handle. That's all good if you ask me, but the racing columnist from AMCN had the right idea when the 800cc limit was floated.

Instead of reducing engine size, and making the bikes peakier, why the hell don't the powers that be introduce a 4 spreed gearbox limit. That'll slow 'em down, the engines will be tuned for torque and the bikes wont be super dangerous.

I thought it was a good idea.

[gav]

Or they could race on Pirelli's, worked for WSBK didnt it?

[White trash]

Or they could race on Pirelli's, worked for WSBK didnt it?

Doesn't neccesarily make 'em safer.

[vifferman]

No, the real reason is because 800cc is the best size for a motorcycle, trust me, evryone will want one soon! :blip:
Then why is yours a mere 781cc?

Is it a coincidence that before the rule change / displacement change was announced, Honda were rumoured to already have an 800 cc triple under development? Just like they had a 990cc V-5 (and a V6) developed before the 500cc two-smokes were scrapped.
I think not. And I do think the piscean KBer was in fact correct, despite TheTrashmouth's inconsequential rebuttal.

[sAsLEX]

Just like they had a 990cc V-5 (and a V6) developed before the 500cc two-smokes were scrapped..


990 V5 easily goes to a 800 V4 does it not?


Sneaky bloody Honda

[Coyote]

Then why is yours a mere 781cc?

Is it a coincidence that before the rule change / displacement change was announced, Honda were rumoured to already have an 800 cc triple under development? Just like they had a 990cc V-5 (and a V6) developed before the 500cc two-smokes were scrapped.
I think not. And I do think the piscean KBer was in fact correct, despite TheTrashmouth's inconsequential rebuttal.
Honda aren't that smart. They got rid of Rossi and Carmichael

[sAsLEX]

Honda aren't that smart. They got rid of Rossi and Carmichael

whats wrong with Gibenau?? pt

[TwoSeven]

From a race bike perspective power doesnt mean squat beyong a certain amount. Heck, your bike standard factory tuned cbr1000 makes 200bhp, and thats plenty.

Biggest problem is how you get it to the ground into and out of corners - which is where racing is all at. If you know that the tracks are not designed to let you do more than an average speed of 120mph, then why develop a bike that has so much power it cant be used.

So what you do is tune the torque characteristics to allow you to get effective drive out of the corners. Thats where motogp bikes are at.

Just so happens that the bore x stroke required to develop 800cc happens to also produce better drive on some machines :)

[Brian d marge]

Honda aren't that smart. They got rid of Rossi and Carmichael

I can back that one up, The joke round here is if you want to retire on a nice little earner , and do no work ,,,then get a job at Honda ...You should see the bonuses they get twice a year !!!

But they really do think that the world revolves around honda .... ( America honda is different , they seem to be leadig the charge ) this lot over here I would sack almost every man Jack of eM !!!

Stephen

( My wife works for the car design side in Wako ,,,so I have to endure the complaints !!)

[gav]

Yip, as posted previously electronics is the key. Seen the crap sitting on the front of a MotoGP bike lately?

[SimJen]

whats wrong with Gibenau?? pt

Lots, like he is inconsistent, has lacked the ability to win a race in the whole of 2005, has a mullet :) say no more.
Nicky Hayden is the best they got at the moment.....hopefully him and Rossi can put on some good shows next year.

[SimJen]

Yip, as posted previously electronics is the key. Seen the crap sitting on the front of a MotoGP bike lately?

Jeez, love those calipers :) bet they cost more than any current new yamaha......

[cowpoos]

Yip, as posted previously electronics is the key. Seen the crap sitting on the front of a MotoGP bike lately?

what a couple of sensors and the suspension telementory???
I imagine one of the sensors would be brake temp...the other ????
that ain't what I would really call crap loads of electronics...

[k14]

what a couple of sensors and the suspension telementory???
I imagine one of the sensors would be brake temp...the other ????
that ain't what I would really call crap loads of electronics...
I'd say the other is a speed sensor.

I think he was referring to the other pic with all the wires etc coming out of the dash.

[gav]

Yeah Pic 6



:slap: :brick: Note to self...... man, you have to spell things out to some of the peeps on here at times.....

[cowpoos]

Yeah Pic 6



:slap: :brick: Note to self...... man, you have to spell things out to some of the peeps on here at times.....

yep....especially farmers....man those pricks are blind arse pricks with no reading and comprehension abilities....

:doh: