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Coyote
24th November 2005, 13:34
Just want to know how to get started making fairings out of fibreglass. I pretty much want to make all the fairings out of fibreglass on the RG and I'd like to be able to do so myself. I also want to make them my own shape instead of copying the originals. I've heard of making a wire frame in the shape you want then coating that with chopped strand mat and resin and sand it down. Is that easy enough for someone with practically no knowledge to do? What do I need and how much does everything I need cost?

Brian d marge
24th November 2005, 13:47
Good luck ..

I mean I can build and entire bike with no 8 fencing wire , feed the the kids and be home in time for tea

but I give up with fibre glass ,,,I end up with brushes, hands , Garagre looking like its been playing with a gorrillas arse ,,,chopped strands of mat and resin Everywhere

Others may find it easy ,,but i am quite happy to admit I failed big time at that stuff ,,and will quite happily pay others to do it

Kind regards
Stephen

Hoon
24th November 2005, 13:50
Sounds a little ambitious. Fibreglass fairings are usually made from rubber moulds which have been taken from the originals. Custom fairings you would probably design a prototype first using clay, wood or some other easily workable material, then take a mould of that.

If I were you I'd start small first. Try repairing some damaged fairings with fibreglass patches. Buy one of those kits from Mitre10 which has everything you need. Get an idea how to roll the stuff and prep it for painting.
Then move onto making a front mud guard or rear hugger.

I hate working with fibreglass....it sucks arse big time and I would gladly pay for someone else to do it too!!

Racey Rider
24th November 2005, 14:02
You better check the rules if you want to use them for streetstock. I think fibreglass flairings are not allowed in the streetstock class.

Yokai
24th November 2005, 14:14
One thing that you can do is get old T-shirts and paint them with Epoxy Resin. As this stuff hardens it will give you a good hard prototype.

to get a good mould for it, you want to get some Polystyrene blocks (doesn't matter if they are glued together) - there's a place on the link between the SH20 and Manukau that sells it wholesale - you'd have to find them in the yellowpages cos I can't remember their name at the moment.

So - Get the poly... Using a hot knife, polystyrene cutter and orbital sander, sculpt what you want the fairing on one side to look like (ignore the mountings, air holes etc at the moment). Cover it in T-Shirts and paint with epoxy resin
Lift off when dry and stiff. Tweak the sculpture to resent what you really want... repeat the whole process till satisfied...

It then becomes fairly trivial to figure out the mountings and holes. (use a dremel or something)
Once that is all done then get ANOTHER block of poly. Mount the proto fairing on the one side, and sculpt the other side as a mirror for it. Again - t-shirts and epoxy.

Then When Completely Satisfied (tm) start laying fibreglass - you can do this onto the Poly if you find something that will coat the Poly in resin-proofness - ask someone like EuroDave about that. This will give you a fibre prototype. When THAT is to your satisfaction, you should get a mould made of both sides....

Good Luck

Motu
24th November 2005, 14:32
As you can see from Yokai's simple instructions it's labour,labour,labour for small rewards.Some people love the medium and can do amaizing things with it - 99% of humans find it frustrating,messy and damn itchy....I stay away from it...

Coyote
24th November 2005, 14:38
You better check the rules if you want to use them for streetstock. I think fibreglass flairings are not allowed in the streetstock class.
Got a heads up from SVS that they will be allowing fibreglass fairings in the streetstock. The old rules said you were only allowed them as replacements

So how would I go about getting fibreglass fairings for the RG? The idea of doing it myself was it would be cheaper and I could make it how I wanted it to be. I'm also interested in aquiring the skill to make stuff out of fibreglass. I was in no rush to get them done and was interested in it as a project since I have the entire holidays and no job yet.

So should I just flag the idea or should I at least give it a shot?

Coyote
24th November 2005, 14:44
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Tools-repair-kits/auction-41088406.htm

That's cheap enough to just have a go at it

phoenixgtr
24th November 2005, 14:45
I say give it a go. If you got time and $$ to spare it would be an awesome skill to learn. I'd love to be able to work with fibreglass. Only ever tried once and that was a mess. Oh well. Practice makes perfect

Eurodave
24th November 2005, 15:45
By all means, give it a go, but BE WARNED you are up for an incredable amount of work,& If youre not used to it, A LOT of discomfort, with the smell, the sticky goo & worst of all when sanding the shit & the itchy/burny that results!! For F@#ks sake at least get youself a pair of disposable overalls, a respirator[ not just a paper dust mask], & a several pairs of disposable rubber gloves.
Bear in mind, I speak from bitter experience & have been doing commercial 'glass/carbon work in my own business for over 15 years
Anyhoo, get youself some big bits of the BLUE [fine grained] insulation foam & start hacking, cover the resulting shapes with epoxy resin & 225 gsm chop strand matt NB: DO NOT USE POLYESTER RESIN on the foam, all that will happen is youll melt all your hard work away. Then slather them in bog & sand your brains out. Once everything is baby arse smooth, spray them with laquer primer to seal the bog.
Then coat them with wax/ release agent, then tooling gelcoat & glass up, [this time using polyester resin] some molds & repeat to get the finished article GOOD LUCK-YOULL NEED IT!!!!!

Coyote
24th November 2005, 16:41
By all means, give it a go, but BE WARNED you are up for an incredable amount of work,& If youre not used to it, A LOT of discomfort, with the smell, the sticky goo & worst of all when sanding the shit & the itchy/burny that results!! For F@#ks sake at least get youself a pair of disposable overalls, a respirator[ not just a paper dust mask], & a several pairs of disposable rubber gloves.
Bear in mind, I speak from bitter experience & have been doing commercial 'glass/carbon work in my own business for over 15 years
Anyhoo, get youself some big bits of the BLUE [fine grained] insulation foam & start hacking, cover the resulting shapes with epoxy resin & 225 gsm chop strand matt NB: DO NOT USE POLYESTER RESIN on the foam, all that will happen is youll melt all your hard work away. Then slather them in bog & sand your brains out. Once everything is baby arse smooth, spray them with laquer primer to seal the bog.
Then coat them with wax/ release agent, then tooling gelcoat & glass up, [this time using polyester resin] some molds & repeat to get the finished article GOOD LUCK-YOULL NEED IT!!!!!
Great info, you actually put it into words I can understand, thanks :niceone:

I knew it wasn't going to be easy but I still want to try it out for myself. It'll be really helpful if I can learn how to fibreglass as I want to do a lot of custom stuff on vehicles (try make a bodykit for our '84 Laser :p). I'll spend the time learning to do it correctly, I don't expect to pick it up when I first try it.

Macktheknife
24th November 2005, 17:01
I was gonna go into a bit of detail but it appears you already have the best of it, just be aware that time is the big expense, if you have lots of it then you can create anything you want. and patience.... lots of patience.

erik
25th November 2005, 09:58
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Car-parts-accessories/Tools-repair-kits/auction-41088406.htm

That's cheap enough to just have a go at it

Aside from that being polyester resin, I reckon you should do some phoning around of fibreglass supplies places before buying the stuff, it's expensive. And stuff on trademe isn't always cheaper than what you can get in the shops.

I've only done a tiny bit of fibreglassing, made a model airplane engine cowling. If you're making a small part and it's only a 1 off, you can sometimes get away with making a male mould out of polystyrene covered with something to stop the glue seeping in (brown packing tape works well and can be heated with a hot air gun to shrink it around curves but may be a nuisance on large parts). Then lay the fibreglass on top of that and use filler to get the finish smooth. To remove it from the mould you can either hack the polystyrene away and peel the tape off (epoxy doesn't stick to it too well) or I've heard of people melting it away with petrol.

But if you want a really nice fairing or think you mght want to make more than 1, you're probably better off doing it Eurodave's way.

Dadpole
25th November 2005, 10:19
I once made a fairing top using polystyrene and used water based paint to protect it from the resin. Worked out OK, but the time taken was about three times as long as I expected.
Have a go by all means, but get the mould right because the glass costs.
Also, use glass cloth rather than mat.

swanman
25th November 2005, 10:47
I have been tempted by this idea a few times. I have a fair bit of composite/glass experience (boatbuilders). The big issue is not really the laying up of the glass etc it is getting the shape right. Not only getting it right but getting it right with the minimum of hassle, sanding, shaping, rework, fucking about etc.

I reckon a way could be to use the original fairing as the start point, paint on gelcote and lay a chop layer or 2 over the top of them (obviously after being polished up and release agent applied), this should form an immediate female mould of the exact shape required. The moulds could be divided into sensible sections to aid release of finshed product, the produced sections being glassed back together afterwards.

If you are looking for cheap fabrics, go to any boat builders they have heaps of offcuts of all weights and styles even carbon and kevlar which they throw out. Resin is more of an issue. Epoxy is best but also the most expensive. But by the same token you proly don't need too much, generaly work on resin weight equal to the weight of fabric of fabric you use, for planning purposes.

If you are not too experienced with using fibreglass/ resins etc get someone to show you first. The stuff is easy to use, but there are some basic principles you have to follow otherwise you'll just get it wrong and lose interest and money.

The advantage of making fairings is that actualy it is not structural integrity that is important at all so the quality of them doesn't have to be that high, it is the shape and weight that is important.

Be tempting to make race fairings for common sports bikes on this basis as once the moulds are made, the finished product is quick and cheap to make.

Hey anyone want to start a business!!!

Swoop
25th November 2005, 10:57
The "bits of wire" framework, etc are used for establishing the shape of the fairings. Essentially hot-melt gluing them into the shape of the finished moulding, and then starting to lay a cloth/mat over that. Anyone who has seen the Britten documentary might remember that stage he went through before laying them up.

Another hint..... Boatbuilders! (lots of tips from them)

750Y
25th November 2005, 11:11
nz fibreglass supplies, morrin road panmure have reasonable prices if you don't have a mate in the trade..

swanman
25th November 2005, 11:16
nz fibreglass supplies, morrin road panmure have reasonable prices if you don't have a mate in the trade..

True I have used these guys before. Good bunch, fair prices.

Coyote
25th November 2005, 11:40
The "bits of wire" framework, etc are used for establishing the shape of the fairings. Essentially hot-melt gluing them into the shape of the finished moulding, and then starting to lay a cloth/mat over that. Anyone who has seen the Britten documentary might remember that stage he went through before laying them up.

Another hint..... Boatbuilders! (lots of tips from them)
See that's what I thought would be the best way to go. I could mould the wire to where all the fairing brackets are and make it the shape I like. From there I could make a mould from it to use if I destroy the originals. Is this reasonable?

Swoop
25th November 2005, 11:55
See that's what I thought would be the best way to go. I could mould the wire to where all the fairing brackets are and make it the shape I like. From there I could make a mould from it to use if I destroy the originals. Is this reasonable?

Yeah. You are using the wire to make the mould. Make it up, then bog and sand. Mould release wax then simply lay up over that.
Probably best to do a test piece on a small bit of stuff first!!


Why am I giving you all this good advice when you are whipping me in the arcade!!!!

Coyote
25th November 2005, 12:07
Yeah. You are using the wire to make the mould. Make it up, then bog and sand. Mould release wax then simply lay up over that.
Probably best to do a test piece on a small bit of stuff first!!


Why am I giving you all this good advice when you are whipping me in the arcade!!!!
Well hopefully I'll be getting a minimoto soon so might be able to make up a wire fairing frame for that, that would be a smaller project to start with

I've had enough of the arcade for one day, you go ahead

Coyote
5th May 2006, 20:06
Well I haven't had the chance to do any fibreglassing at home yet. The RG was sucking up what little money I had and it seemed like a bit too much work for me as I still really had no clue where to start. But now I've done a bit of fibreglassing at metalwork and it's not nearly as hard as I imagined, my teacher recommended a good site to get all the stuff I need (http://www.nzfibreglass.co.nz/) and now I have some cash saved up. So now I'm looking to get some supplies.

What I need to know is what resin I should go for? I'm not going to do custom fairings just yet, instead make some replica side fairings for my RG. Just will any particular resin destroy my original fairings (which I'd like to try keep in good condition) when I make a mould from them? How much chopped strand mat, resin and hardener am I likely to need for the moulds (I'll get supplies for the replicas once I have more money)?

swanman
6th May 2006, 09:02
Any resin will damage your orginals. Vinyleseter is the most aggressive. Cover the originals in protective tape (packaging tape is surprisingly good as it has a shiny side) before you lay any chemicals on top. Polyester resin is proly the best bet.

For side panels don't need a lot of glass or resin. 300 chopped strand mat will do maybe 3 square metres and a litre of resin, with equivalent ratio of hardener.

For the moulds maybe 4-6 layers of glass should make them sturdy and stiff enough. For the actual product 2 layers.

Coyote
6th May 2006, 13:06
Cheers, now I have some idea of what to order. My teacher suggested covering the original fairings in glad wrap. It may get a few crinkles but I can sand them down. I might do a mix of that and tape

XTC
6th May 2006, 13:20
"Swanman - Hey anyone want to start a business!!!"

Like "just fairings" or sumfink?

Coyote
6th May 2006, 13:28
Like "just fairings" or sumfink?
What like "just fairings"?

swanman
7th May 2006, 07:54
Always up for starting a business.

Coyote
7th May 2006, 11:09
Well I was hoping if I made some good moulds I would be able to sell RG150 replica fairings to the streetstock racers as well as making my own. I'm not sure if there will be a big market but I might be able to earn a few bucks to help fund my racing.

Might be able to save up for an air compressor and paint gun and give them custom paintjobs too, that would be fun

Bert
7th May 2006, 11:35
Well I was hoping if I made some good moulds.

Might be able to save up for an air compressor and paint gun and give them custom paintjobs too, that would be fun

I re-made some fairing for my bucket years ago. glued back together my sides and made a clay mould by pressing the fairing sides (covered in vasaline) into a clay box (a box fill of wet'ish clay), let it dry. Sanded the clay and sprayed it with a water based paint to seal it, worked ok; meant that I didn't have to use all my epoxy on the moulds. had to do abit of sanding to get a good finish though. they were very basic fairing though.

I wonder if :
you could use something like spaceinvader (foam spray) and build a mould using that, you'd have to contain the foam as it expanded (a wooden box maybe) and maintain pressure on the fairing that you were molding.
then cover the moulding surface with a spray putty and sand to get a good finish.

Mattzxr750
7th May 2006, 15:22
that foam spray is not a bad idea. I was surfing the net on this topic and came across this site. they were making a fibreglass shell of a solar car.

and they made a foam model, sprayed it with gelcoat. then covered it with foam spray.

the out come was pretty good so when i make a new rear end for my bike im going to try that with so of the idea's in this post

Bert
7th May 2006, 17:43
that foam spray is not a bad idea. I was surfing the net on this topic and came across this site. they were making a fibreglass shell of a solar car.

and they made a foam model, sprayed it with gelcoat. then covered it with foam spray.

the out come was pretty good so when i make a new rear end for my bike im going to try that with so of the idea's in this post

THat my one good idea gone of the year.:slap:

Mattzxr750
7th May 2006, 20:52
dont worry too much youll have another next year:calm:

classic zed
7th May 2006, 21:01
Easily carved to shape, then a thin layer of glass, and finally primed, sanded, primed, sanded and so on until they are perfect then you can make the mould.

The ones pictured was built on a 650KTM for the Power Rangers series.

First pic is the finished foam, Second is the main body glassed and ready for primer, and finally the finished bike.

Two were produced one red and one green.:2thumbsup

sprocket
7th May 2006, 21:58
OK....my 2 cents

Mould Making 101

- Foam (if you intend on modifying the article) Article being the origional Fairing
All you do is Ados on blocks of foam and shape it to how you want it to look, with a speed file and sand paper

- once you have the desired shape that you want you then glass the foam with a single layer for E450 chopstrand matt (just the foam and maybe 30 - 40mm onto the article)

- Next we fair the article normally, you would use a polyerster resin with q-cells(easy to sand ) but car bog will do as its polyester based (tip when sanding it dont leave it for to long as its a bastard to sand when its fully cured, just let it tack off for 20mins then sand it with some sand paper )

- The secrect to making a good mould is to make the plug as perfect as possible, so that means sanding and repainting then buffing to a polished finish

So now that we have a mint plug we can begin to mould it, note if you dont intend on changing any part of the fairing you can just start here!

-Firstly the plug must be throughly waxed and left to breath for 30mins between coats to allow the wax to hase off then all you do with a clean rag is wipe it off (wax on wax off styles) IMPORTANT you will need at least 8 coats of wax for a first time mould or you will have a stick up, and you probably wont get you plug out in one peice:crybaby:

-Once you have waxed it you apply tooling gelcoat or you can just use normal gelcoat, dont forget to catalise it (i find that it works fine)and apply it to the plug and allow it to cure (2-3hrs) next you do what is called a backup coat(apply a second gelcoat layer) this eliminates what is known in the trade as crocodiles caused through thin spot in the first layer of gelcoat

-Now we are ready to lay some glass on the plug, I would suggest that you make sure that the fairing is not twisted in anyway, if it is, i find that a few bits of timber glued on the inside of the fairing to hold it in winding will do the trick. So start off with P250 chopstrand as its easy to roll for you first layer and gets in any tricky bits, next layer go for a E450 chopstrand, then woven rovings say 800g will be good enough then another E450 over the top.

I say to use rovings as it stiffens up the entire mould however its tricky if you have never used it before.

Another trick to do to keep the mould from twitsing before you release it is the get the old cardboard reem rolls and cut them in half and glass them on to the mould this ensures that it will remail in the exact shape as the plug

So now you can release it hopefully you waxed it enough give the mould a few taps with a rubber mallet (not a hammer or you will crack the mould ) you can also ues a few wooded wedges as well to part the plug from the mould

and thats about it easy as

To successfully make a mould you will need

Chopstrand matt (emoulsion and powder)
Woven rovings What ever weight you want say around 850g
Polyester resin probably to be safe 1lter per lineal meter
Mekp (know as catalist/hardiner)
Gelcoat enough for the job
Mould release wax
A few paint brushes
A selection of rollers for rolling the fiber glass
Acetone (clean up and matain brushes and rollers)
Rags and heaps of them
Latex gloves
A resporator if you dont like the fumes
Foam(it you intend on modding the article)
Containers

Thats about all i can think of off the top of my head

If anyone needs advice give me a yell and ill point ya in the righ direction :2thumbsup

Mattzxr750
8th May 2006, 11:24
objective: is to make a better looking smaller and lighter rear for my zxr.

prep: need to strip off fairings and make a mold so that i have the basic shape

then slim it down and fill in the rear seat making it a solo bike.

build a fibregalss under body just for looks and some how mold in the indercators

i want to give it a more modern look

sprocket
9th May 2006, 19:44
.....sounds like alot of work .....goood luck to ya

riffer
9th May 2006, 20:26
objective: is to make a better looking smaller and lighter rear for my zxr ... i want to give it a more modern look

You know, that's not a bad idea. I wonder what a GSXR1100-like rear would look like on an RF900...

might be a market there.

sprocket
9th May 2006, 20:33
Ok whos got donor fairings......i sence a frankinstein bike fairing comming on here:headbang:

Mattzxr750
10th May 2006, 07:29
Ok whos got donor fairings......i sence a frankinstein bike fairing comming on here:headbang:

:woohoo: :woohoo: its alive, ITS ALIVE. rise my pretty go foward and hunt down any that apose you