Speeding and Dangerous Driving

[What?]

Mrs What? and I went to town this morning in the green submarine (Subaru in the rain, OK?). Following a cop who spots a lad doing 123K coming up the hill. Cop slams on the anchors, pulls a U-turn, turns on his indicator (1/2 way through the maneouver) then his flashers. I friggin near hit him.
So, I (safely) pull a U and go back to said copper who is busy writing a ticket to Mr 123KpH andd ask him for his identity number.
Monday morning I am going to lay a complaint of Dangerous driving against him. I know it won't go far, but I need to do it. Hopefully a few more may do the same. Might write a letter to the paper as well...

[Hitcher]

Good luck!

[Lou Girardin]

Mrs What? and I went to town this morning in the green submarine (Subaru in the rain, OK?). Following a cop who spots a lad doing 123K coming up the hill. Cop slams on the anchors, pulls a U-turn, turns on his indicator (1/2 way through the maneouver) then his flashers. I friggin near hit him.
So, I (safely) pull a U and go back to said copper who is busy writing a ticket to Mr 123KpH andd ask him for his identity number.
Monday morning I am going to lay a complaint of Dangerous driving against him. I know it won't go far, but I need to do it. Hopefully a few more may do the same. Might write a letter to the paper as well...

Bloody good on you. A female cop did the same in the Waikato a couple of years ago, she got T - boned though.
If they don't charge him, go to the media. With all the shit going on about the Police these days, they'll be onto it like rabid dogs.
Lou

[wkid_one]

Sam thing happened to a girl I worked with at AMP. She was riding down the motorway in Sydney and a police emergency vehicle that had attended a breakdown - nose to tail to a u'turn in front of her on her bike. She clipped the back of it - broke her leg, pelvis, collarbone, ruptured internal organs and spent 8 months in hospital

[MikeL]

Well done. Will be interested to hear whether, assuming the cop in question noted down your number plate as you were leaving, you subsequently notice an increase in enforcement activity near where you live.
Or were you clever enough to disguise the reason for your enquiry?

[MD]

Do it. The pricks will risk other peoples lives and limbs in order to issue a ticket to worship their quota God. Keep us all posted on the outcome
Mark D

[spudchucka]

Bloody good on you. A female cop did the same in the Waikato a couple of years ago, she got T - boned though.
If they don't charge him, go to the media. With all the shit going on about the Police these days, they'll be onto it like rabid dogs.
Lou

You realy do have a problem with old Mr Plod don't you Lou. I agree that the driver should be reported but you seem to have a passion for highlighting fault in the police. Me wonders why???????

[MikeL]

You realy do have a problem with old Mr Plod don't you Lou. I agree that the driver should be reported but you seem to have a passion for highlighting fault in the police. Me wonders why???????

Perhaps it's because they are reluctant to admit to any fault themselves. Lou's passion might be a desire to reveal injustices and right wrongs. Strange that "accountability" - such a buzz-word these days - doesn't seem to have the same meaning in the police force.

[Lou Girardin]

I guess we all have a pet peeve and that's mine.
As I've said before though, I hate what the Police have turned into. They used to be about protecting society, not the persecution of one section in the name of revenue.
Lou

[What?]

...subsequently notice an increase in enforcement activity near where you live.
Struth, Mike, I don't know if that is possible. I live on the Kaimai (SH29). Maybe they could put an armed gaurd on my gate???
Anyway, he didn't ask why I wanted his id number. I think the smug prick knew damned well why I wanted it. The attitude seemed to be "I am a cop - I will get away with it".
Stuff 'em. I will copy my complaint to my MP and to the minister of the police farce.

[spudchucka]

I guess we all have a pet peeve and that's mine.
As I've said before though, I hate what the Police have turned into. They used to be about protecting society, not the persecution of one section in the name of revenue.
Lou

Do you really believe that they no longer protect society??

Gang members, thieves, burglars, boy racers all feel they are unfairly targeted by police. They are all minority groups that attract attention because of certain behaviours that they choose to engage in. Speeding drivers, dangerous drivers, people who ride motorcycles are also minority groups. The behaviour that they choose to engage in is what attracts the attention not what they drive / ride or any thing else about the person, it's the behaviour that is targeted.

As for revenue, well it's the tool that the Govt give the police to target undesireable driving behaviour, so take your beef up with thoose idiots. 99.9% of cops joined the job because they want to make a difference to our society. Sure there are some idiots in the job and they should be identified and dealt with.

But yor attitude of the whole police department is full of power hungry little revenue gatherers is just stupid.

Your time in the MOT would surely have shown your the result of speed gone wrong. How many times have you had to clean up a dead body in the local morgue, trying to make it semi presentable for the grieving relatives? Thats the reality of speeding for most cops and thats why speed is targeted. The revenue thing is an issue to take up with the Govt, not the cops.

[SPman]

...... The revenue thing is an issue to take up with the Govt, not the cops.
Quite True - but the cops are the instrument of the government, and how they pursue the policy is what affects society. From the head fella down to the cop on patrol.

Where societies/countries/communities are involved, it has been established, internationally, that following orders is not a defence!

[Jackrat]

Hmmm,the voise of reason.
Well unfortunatly most people never look far past their own self interest.
We bikers certainly are no different in that respect huh.
As to Lou's beaf with the cops,Well as I remember it the old MOT could be and offten were complete assholes.I also remember a lot of them didn't make the grade when the change over came about.What was the old saying,Can't get into the cops,Become an MOT officer!!
Bunch of little Hitlers some of them were.
But back to the point,If somebody feels a cop has messed up,and their not just walking their dislike,then yeah make a complaint.Just be sure you are doing it for the right reason.

[Coldkiwi]

good on ya lou. If any of us did that in front of a cop, you can bet your backside we'd get pulled over and have the book thrown at us.. and rightfully os because its dangerous driving. Why should those in charge of keeping us safe be allowed to blatantly endanger us without fear of justice??

make em pay

[SPman]

....Just be sure you are doing it for the right reason. :2thumbsup

As in all things in life.

[Lou Girardin]

Well, when you can't get a patrol to an 'offender on premises' or you just have to watch while some arseholes break into your car, or you follow a hit and run driver for 15 minutes only to be told that there are no patrols available. Then see three within 5 minutes of giving up. I'd say they're not doing their job.
A lot of MOT guys didn't become sworn Police, because they were worried about failing the Police exams. That would have put them out of a job, so they stayed as un-sworn Officers. But, there were also a handful who had an iffy history and weren't offered a job.
Lou

[Coldkiwi]

of course, judging by the media coverage at the moment, there's still a few cops out there that have iffy histories but have kept on trucking!

[What?]

of course, judging by the media coverage at the moment, there's still a few cops out there that have iffy histories but have kept on trucking!
And wonder how many of them were sneering at the NSW cops a couple of years back...

[RiderInBlack]

You know, I cann't stop feeling that we are lucky that we have a police force we can feel fee to bitch about. Fuck, just look at countries without an effective police force (or an over effective police force). Would we rather the Gastarpo (sorry spellings fucked) or Mad Max (think hard about this before you say yes).

They are just another bunch of inadequite humans, doing the best they can with the rules, regs and money handed down to them by the Govt (who we elected). Sure they cock-up and can be a rightous pain in the butt (yah, I've had my share of tickets). Sure they abuse they power, but think hard about what the alternatives are before you wish for them. Like guns? Try speeding in the States. Or closer to home try speeding in Victoria, Aussie.

As I say, FUCK WE ARE SO FUCKEN LUCKY.

[Lou Girardin]

We are closer to Victoria than you think, and getting closer. Just look at the LTSA wish list.
Lou

[MikeL]

Yes, we are lucky that we are free to complain about our police. And do you think that there is nobody in the corridors of power that would like to take that freedom away from us? Not all at once, of course... that would be too blatant. Just little by little. A "Police Complaints Authority" would be a good place to start.
And do you think that by making excuses for their inadequacy, cock-ups and abuse of power we will earn such gratitude that they will start to restore our freedoms?

[dangerous]

You ALL have good points of view, its been good reading :cool: But I have to say that Lou has a good point......The other day a mate had his house broken into and as he came home and cought the little buggers inside he rang the cops and yessssss.... they said "we have no available patrols in the area at the moment" 'phtttttt crap' so they watched the shits jump the back fence and disapair down the railway line.
Now the other day I watched a laser gun speed trap being used from work, it took 5 patrol cars and 8 thats 8 cops to run 1 speed trap :sneaky2: Go figger.... well its easy realy they make heaps with the laser and nothing catching thiefs

[Two Smoker]

The other day a mate had his house broken into and as he came home and cought the little buggers inside he rang the cops and yessssss.... they said "we have no available patrols in the area at the moment" 'phtttttt crap' so they watched the shits jump the back fence and disapair down the railway line.
Well you could always do the trick of saying there is armed people in your backyard. See how fast and how many cop cars come then????? lol.

[Zed]

Well you could always do the trick of saying there is armed people in your backyard. See how fast and how many cop cars come then????? lol.
The problem with lying to the police though is that they will turn around and charge you!

[Two Smoker]

The problem with lying to the police though is that they will turn around and charge you!
Yep, and i definately dont lie to them, for instance..... "what speed do you think you were doing back there?" i reply with about 135 and say i was going a bit quick, he gives me the ticket and thts the end of it.

But you could ring them first and say there are people breaking into your house, and when the reply with "Sorry there are no IC cars available...." Hang up ring back and then try the armed thing. Because they were lying to you in the first place lol. Therefore they are screwed with charging you with false information....

[Lou Girardin]

All this kind of proves a point. No matter what social group you belong to, there are always many stories like this. If the Police headquarters had a clue they should be very worried. Once they lose public support, it'll take years to get it back. Look at New York and NSW, for example.
Lou

[Marmoot]

Do you really believe that they no longer protect society??


They do, but with a highly skewed priorities.
If they can put 3 patrol cars just to check speed in Hobson street but took TWO WHOLE F**KIN DAYS to turn up at my house on my report of burglary (a few days ago), then don't blame me if I say it's all about the friggin government money!
What's the 111 Police for, then? Do they really like *555 better than 111 calls?

:brick: :brick: :brick: :brick:

(the fella that turned up to my place was a nice git, tho. I feel sorry for him to lose precious speed-check time and had to do all the paperworks).

[RiderInBlack]

And do you think that by making excuses for their inadequacy, cock-ups and abuse of power we will earn such gratitude that they will start to restore our freedoms? No I don't, but at least we still have the right to complain (which we should still do).
My landlord in Tuaranga had some police come to his place, just to tell him that his daugter was late for ballet! His ex is conected to the police and had resently lost a case against him (long story). Complaining would have caused more problems. They would have found an other way of getting at him (as any "gang" would). If that is not abuse of power or police harassement, I don't know what is.
I was just committing that we are very lucky in comparisment (fuck, I need a spell checker). In places in Africa they would have just shot him and nobody would have done anything about it.

[SPman]

I was just commenting that we are very lucky in comparison (fuck, I need a spell checker)(done). In places in Africa they would have just shot him and nobody would have done anything about it. Of course we are lucky , in comparison. But the point is, we arent living in Africa, or anywhere else. We are in NZ and most people in NZ expect certain standards and levels of competence from their Government agencies, commensurate with their expectations of what a civilised life in this country should be like. If they perceive them to be "not up to scratch", it is perfectly reasonable to point out the shortcomings and expect things to be improved.

Its either that, or a bumper sticker I quite liked
"My Insurance is by Smith & Wesson!" ..........tempting sometimes :devil2:

[aff-man]

Getting back to the origioal post it makes you think how road aware police really are. I was sitting on motorway due to some accident when a police car came down the emergency lane at like 40-50 km/h. Now missing a car by like 30cm is on thing but to have have them do that to with no siren on , on a bike, was a little off putting. Another mr plod decided to put his lights on full when he was right up my arse which scared the bejeezus out of me and then, due to me being in one of those give way slip lanes at a set of lights, as i start to pull over he screams passed me in the slip lane only to slow again at the next set of lights and then "race" off at about 60 - 70 km/h. Now although these might sound of little consiquence i have seen so much worse that evertime i haer a siren or see lights i look around nervousley.

[Coldkiwi]

how about calling the cops and saying 'I saw them carrying something and I think it might've been a gun'... see, its not really a lie at all.. just a suspicion!

[Lou Girardin]

how about calling the cops and saying 'I saw them carrying something and I think it might've been a gun'... see, its not really a lie at all.. just a suspicion!

Or, if you're really in trouble. Yell Fire!
Lou

[What?]

Yep, we are luckt that we have the right to complain. And that is just what I have done, I also copied it to my MP (Tony Ryall), the Minister of Cops and the PCA.
Still reckon it's a waste of time, but I reckon you have to do something. The way the cops are acting round my area, it is but a matter of time before their zeal to apprehend costs someone else dearly...

[dangerous]

The way the cops are acting round my area, it is but a matter of time before their zeal to apprehend costs someone else dearly...

Yep I think that all of the emergency services need to rethink there driving standards (if we have to then they should) The other day my sister was nearly taken out by a ambo going through a roudabout at about 80kph.

[Two Smoker]

Yep I think that all of the emergency services need to rethink there driving standards (if we have to then they should) The other day my sister was nearly taken out by a ambo going through a roudabout at about 80kph.
The problem is that there is no driver training at all for the services. For the police all they get is a weeks driver training, and basically all that is, is this is wat happens with oversteer understeer etc..... and then have a blat around a race track for a day.

Back in Lou's days the MOT had 6 weeks driver training and 6 weeks rider training.

Pity about the government being stupid and all, in ome ways you can blame the cops for idiocy but then you can blame the government for poor training.

[MikeL]

how about calling the cops and saying 'I saw them carrying something and I think it might've been a gun'... see, its not really a lie at all.. just a suspicion!

Or a few years ago you would mention that they were smoking something and it didn't smell like tobacco. That would get the cops out for sure. Don't know about nowadays...

[dangerous]

Back in Lou's days the MOT had 6 weeks driver training and 6 weeks rider training.

Dident all the MOT'ers have to do there time on a bike before moving up to a car. That would teach ya respect.

[Two Smoker]

Dident all the MOT'ers have to do there time on a bike before moving up to a car. That would teach ya respect.
They did it at the same time, but most of the time was spent on the motorcycle hehehe, i would do that just to ride the bike all day:2thumbsup

[spudchucka]

You ALL have good points of view, its been good reading :cool: But I have to say that Lou has a good point......The other day a mate had his house broken into and as he came home and cought the little buggers inside he rang the cops and yessssss.... they said "we have no available patrols in the area at the moment" 'phtttttt crap' so they watched the shits jump the back fence and disapair down the railway line.
Now the other day I watched a laser gun speed trap being used from work, it took 5 patrol cars and 8 thats 8 cops to run 1 speed trap :sneaky2: Go figger.... well its easy realy they make heaps with the laser and nothing catching thiefs

And what nobody realises is that the shmucks on highway patrol are ordered not to attend criminal matters and get repremanded when they do. Don't blame the boys & girls on the street. Get stuck into the bosses.

We all see the traffic cops out and about but the public has no idea of the volume of day to day crap that the general duties cops have to deal with. The reason the have no patrols available is usually because they are knee deep in sorting out peoples domestic problems, dealing with juvenille offenders or stopping some nutter from topping himself. But this stuff isn't visible to the public so they assume that all cops are pingging Joe Average for speeding while some P crazed maniac rapes their grandmother. It's simply not so.

[Lou Girardin]

I did 7 years on a bike and no car job in sight. You could get into cars earlier if you transfered to some shithole no-one wanted to work in. And our training was suberb, road riding, a bit of track work at Manfield and some off-road stuff, two day each week for 12 weeks. That's why our accident rate was a fraction of the cops.

It's no good giving Police bosses a hard time, spudchucker. They're insulated from it, never hear the public's abuse. The only to get to them is via disgruntled rank and file cops. It might not seem fair, but that's life.
Lou

[Two Smoker]

Hhhhmmmmm i wonder what it would be like if the MOT was still around??? Would it be worse? Or would it be for the better? I can see both views and in a way i tend more to the it would be better part.....

Let the debate begin... if anyone wants to lol

[Zed]

I did 7 years on a bike...
Did you ever say "have a nice day" to those you ticketed Lou?

[RiderInBlack]

Ya, there used to be some OK MOT's back in the 80's. Can remember getting let-off for speeding in a 50KPH zone on New Year's Eve as an 18 year-old (ya boy-racers are no new thing) because I was sober! :Punk:

[SPman]

Ya, there used to be some OK MOT's back in the 80's. Can remember getting let-off for speeding in a 50KPH zone on New Year's Eve as an 18 year-old (ya boy-racers are no new thing) because I was sober! :Punk: Hell, there were even some OK council traffic cops!
.
Spudchucka, people may realise it is the bosses who are so far up their own promotion scales they wouldnt know a crime priority from a bedsore, setting all these crap goals, but it is the copper on the beat/road who the public has to deal with. If the feeling that the public get, rightly or wrongly, is that they are being shafted, then the cops are going to get stick.

[Lou Girardin]

Did you ever say "have a nice day" to those you ticketed Lou?

No, those days were pre - McDonalds. A lot of people did say 'thanks' when booked though. (never could understand that).
If the MOT had todays technology and yesterdays attitude, I think there'd be a lot less aggro from drivers. I once let a guy off for 140 on the Southern M/Way. He was sober, the road was empty, car was designed for reasonable speed. So why book him? Didn't happen often though.
And the Police wouldn't be disliked so much, we took most of the flak.
Lou

[MikeL]

And the Police wouldn't be disliked so much, we took most of the flak.
Lou

And this is the main reason why I think keeping the MOT separate would have been better in the long term. I presume that the accountants' mentality prevailed.

[Lou Girardin]

And this is the main reason why I think keeping the MOT separate would have been better in the long term. I presume that the accountants' mentality prevailed.

Not quite; the Minister of Police back then, John bloody Banks promised 900 extra Police and there just happened to be 900 MOT cops.
Lou

P S. I was in Avondale this morn. 30 km/h limit on Ash St, I was doing 40 and I get overtaken by a cop. I can't be bothered reporting him. But, to the driver of BDD864, you're a tosser. Mind you, he looked guilty as hell when I pointed to the speedo at the lights.
Lou

[spudchucka]

I did 7 years on a bike and no car job in sight. You could get into cars earlier if you transfered to some shithole no-one wanted to work in. And our training was suberb, road riding, a bit of track work at Manfield and some off-road stuff, two day each week for 12 weeks. That's why our accident rate was a fraction of the cops.

It's no good giving Police bosses a hard time, spudchucker. They're insulated from it, never hear the public's abuse. The only to get to them is via disgruntled rank and file cops. It might not seem fair, but that's life.
Lou

And has sticking it to the troops actually made any difference?? I don't think so. In fact you are probably just fuelling the overall problem by creating a self fullfilling prophecy due to your attitude being reflected when you are dealing with the police. If your attitude is' "all cops are revenue gathering, arogant, self righteous, power hungry pricks" this will be reflected in your manner and you will no doubt get a response from the cops that is reflective of your attitude. It's a vicous cycle that achieves nothing worthwhile.

Relying on the disgruntled troops to influence the bosses would require that a strong union was in place. Sadly that isn't the case.

I can appreciate that the public get disgruntled for all sorts of reasons and that will always be the case. However I would have thought that someone who is so obviously driven to force change would come up with more sophisticated ideas to make it happen. I'm not trying to flame you, I just want to make others here think about it too and there might be some good ideas come from it.

[spudchucka]

Hell, there were even some OK council traffic cops!
.
Spudchucka, people may realise it is the bosses who are so far up their own promotion scales they wouldnt know a crime priority from a bedsore, setting all these crap goals, but it is the copper on the beat/road who the public has to deal with. If the feeling that the public get, rightly or wrongly, is that they are being shafted, then the cops are going to get stick.

And why do they have the crap goals in the first place? Because that is how they are funded these days. They get $$$ from ACC, LTSA and local bodies to deliver X amount of traffic enforcement hours. It's a contract that has to be delivered or they don't get the funding.

Again the problem is Govt related because it is their mickey mouse way of delivering the funding. Without the funding the police don't get the troops on the street that the public has asked for. But what they do with thoose troops again relates back to the need to deliver on contracts.

[MikeL]

If your attitude is' "all cops are revenue gathering, arogant, self righteous, power hungry pricks" this will be reflected in your manner and you will no doubt get a response from the cops that is reflective of your attitude. It's a vicous cycle that achieves nothing worthwhile.

I agree that it becomes a vicious circle, but the question is, who is in a position to break that circle? Whether the pressure is from the rank and file on their bosses, or from the top down, ultimately it has to come from the police, because we the generally law-abiding public are not going to change our perception of the police when the only contact we have we them is usually in the context of a traffic infringement (regardless of the rights or wrongs of the offence: if there are not enough police to attend to real crimes, but plenty of them issuing speeding tickets as anecdotal evidence points to quite clearly, then there is an obvious injustice).

[spudchucka]

I agree that it becomes a vicious circle, but the question is, who is in a position to break that circle? Whether the pressure is from the rank and file on their bosses, or from the top down, ultimately it has to come from the police, because we the generally law-abiding public are not going to change our perception of the police when the only contact we have we them is usually in the context of a traffic infringement (regardless of the rights or wrongs of the offence: if there are not enough police to attend to real crimes, but plenty of them issuing speeding tickets as anecdotal evidence points to quite clearly, then there is an obvious injustice).

I agree that the police are in the best position to "break the cycle" as you say. Most cops endeavour to be proffessional and they are encouraged to be by their bosses.

But at the same time if they are proffessional and polite and are met with smart mouths and shitty attitudes then that will often be reflected in the cops attitude to the subject.

The attitude test is the first one that is conducted at any traffic stop, before breath testing or licence checks etc. If the attitude is "f**k you pig" then the cops will probably respond with a similar attitude.

[Firefight]

Or, if you're really in trouble. Yell Fire!
Lou


Happens more often than you may think!

firefight :wacko:

[Firefight]

The problem is that there is no driver training at all for the services.
Won't pass comment on other services, however, there is a complex system of training for Fire Services, which includes phrobatioary(sp?) period before driving to emergancy calls, TS would be happy to pm you details if you wish !

Firefight :wacko:

[Two Smoker]

[QUOTE=Two Smoker]The problem is that there is no driver training at all for the services.

Won't pass comment on other services, however, there is a complex system of training for Fire Services, which includes phrobatioary(sp?) period before driving to emergancy calls, TS would be happy to pm you details if you wish !

Firefight :wacko:
Cheers for the info Firefight. What people have to remember is that in the Police there are different branches. For instance CIB (Crime Investigation) CVIU (Weighing Trucks etc) General Duties, then there is STU (Strategic Traffic Unit) Highway Patrol and Motorways. So you cant tell or say that cops that are doing speed traps etc should be out catching real criminals because they are doing their job respective to their unit.

The reason they have the units is because the dumb arse government joined the MOT with the Police:no: ..... Bad move. I agree with Lou they need the attitude of the MOT days....and not give people tickets because they have to make a quota (yes there really is quotas) but give tickets regarding the conditions that the speed was being done in.

[Lou Girardin]

I guess I'm fortunate, spudchucker, I get a ticket about once every ten years. And there are ways of letting the cops know you don't think much of them without resorting to abuse.
Why don't you come clean, who or what are you? If you are a cop, stand up!
Lou

[jrandom]

Why don't you come clean, who or what are you? If you are a cop, stand up!

Yes, I reckon ol' Spud there might have a bit of a background he hasn't posted about yet. Go on Spud, open up, Lou's right, you sound like you're a cop and feeling rather ambiguous about it too... why keep the whole 'third-person commentary' thing going?

And, FWIW, Lou has never made a point that I've felt capable of disagreeing with, but Spud, you just sound like an apologist on the defensive.

By the way, I like your 'letters to the editors', Lou, keep writing them... I never know when another one's going to turn up somewhere to keep me nodding in agreement. Hell, more of us should get off our lazy arses and speak up.

[Jackrat]

Hmmm,This questioning of Spuds profession is pretty pointless,But I have to say I agree with most of what he says.
I have had three contacts with the police in resent times,During all three I was treated in a respectfull manner and have no issue with having been pulled over when I was.As far as I am conserned if I don't get pulled over in some situations then the cops are not doing the job.They don't make the rules and neither do their commanders.The poly's do that,if you don't like it join BRONZ and do something about it.If you can't be bothered doing at lest that,you are just another whinging Kiwi and don't deserve any consideration anyway.Lou, Writes letters to the New papers and I think that is one thing that can be done to be heard but as for most of the noise makers.
Damn not all the sheep in this country have four legs Aye!!!

[dangerous]

But at the same time if they are proffessional and polite and are met with smart mouths and shitty attitudes then that will often be reflected in the cops attitude to the subject.

The attitude test is the first one that is conducted at any traffic stop, before breath testing or licence checks etc. If the attitude is "f**k you pig" then the cops will probably respond with a similar attitude.

The way I see it the cops ARE the profesionals and there for should NOT respond with an attude like you gave as an example above. They SHOULD be above that kind of behaver and then maybe the smart mouthed one might pay attenion and fell like the looser.

And should spud come clean, and is a cop then he should be prowd of that.
We know him as an indervidual not a cop so we will not treat him any different to the way we do now.

My money is on him not being a cop but related to the govt somwere along the line. ( my 2 cents worth) :2thumbsup

[Jackrat]

Nobody gets payed enough to be perfect,and the smart mouths usually all ready know they are losers.Thats why they take it out on the cops.
They know they can't get away with it with most other people.
But then thats only because the cops are professionals.A good smack in the teath is probably what they really do need.

[jimbo600]

Mrs What? and I went to town this morning in the green submarine (Subaru in the rain, OK?). Following a cop who spots a lad doing 123K coming up the hill. Cop slams on the anchors, pulls a U-turn, turns on his indicator (1/2 way through the maneouver) then his flashers. I friggin near hit him.
So, I (safely) pull a U and go back to said copper who is busy writing a ticket to Mr 123KpH andd ask him for his identity number.
Monday morning I am going to lay a complaint of Dangerous driving against him. I know it won't go far, but I need to do it. Hopefully a few more may do the same. Might write a letter to the paper as well...

Nice going mate. Same thing happened to me by a snake in a mufty car in plimmerton. My missus was driving at the time as I was pissed. I made a big scene in the car for her to do a u turn so I could get the twat snakes QID number and report him. Assholes reckon they are exempt from the law. Keep up the pressure. If it ever happens to me again I'll not bother braking and just plough into the fucker.

[SPman]

And why do they have the crap goals in the first place? Because that is how they are funded these days. They get $$$ from ACC, LTSA and local bodies to deliver X amount of traffic enforcement hours. It's a contract that has to be delivered or they don't get the funding.
Again the problem is Govt related because it is their mickey mouse way of delivering the funding. Without the funding the police don't get the troops on the street that the public has asked for. But what they do with thoose troops again relates back to the need to deliver on contracts.
Sort of a catch 22 situation there, but is certainly up to the police chiefs, among others, to fight for a better system of funding. If the heads cant see what is happening to police/public morale through gummint policies, they need a good kick up the jacksie. Its already getting harder to get sufficient recruits of even, average calibre, let alone losing large numbers of good cops who are dissillusioned with the way the force is being run.Running a police force (among others), in a society with widely differing scenarois, by accountants rules, just doesnt work! The only winners are the book keepers! The beauracrats need to be reminded that the police force is meant to serve, assist and protect the public, not be a strong arm collection agency for treasury. Police can only operate efficiently with the goodwill of the public and that goodwill is being seriously eroded!
And part of that reminding has to come from within the force itself.

[spudchucka]

Sort of a catch 22 situation there, but is certainly up to the police chiefs, among others, to fight for a better system of funding. If the heads cant see what is happening to police/public morale through gummint policies, they need a good kick up the jacksie. Its already getting harder to get sufficient recruits of even, average calibre, let alone losing large numbers of good cops who are dissillusioned with the way the force is being run.Running a police force (among others), in a society with widely differing scenarois, by accountants rules, just doesnt work! The only winners are the book keepers! The beauracrats need to be reminded that the police force is meant to serve, assist and protect the public, not be a strong arm collection agency for treasury. Police can only operate efficiently with the goodwill of the public and that goodwill is being seriously eroded!
And part of that reminding has to come from within the force itself.

I agree with your sentiments. One of the problems is that we now have civilians, (beauracrats) making operational descisions on how the police will be run. It is an indirect method of Govt medalling.

Its a complex issue!!!!! :brick:

[spudchucka]

I guess I'm fortunate, spudchucker, I get a ticket about once every ten years. And there are ways of letting the cops know you don't think much of them without resorting to abuse.
Why don't you come clean, who or what are you? If you are a cop, stand up!
Lou

Well I think thats my business. People can form their own opinions about me from my posts, after all this forum is largely about opinions. I'm just passing on mine, for what it's worth.

[spudchucka]

Hmmm,This questioning of Spuds profession is pretty pointless,But I have to say I agree with most of what he says.
I have had three contacts with the police in resent times,During all three I was treated in a respectfull manner and have no issue with having been pulled over when I was.As far as I am conserned if I don't get pulled over in some situations then the cops are not doing the job.They don't make the rules and neither do their commanders.The poly's do that,if you don't like it join BRONZ and do something about it.If you can't be bothered doing at lest that,you are just another whinging Kiwi and don't deserve any consideration anyway.Lou, Writes letters to the New papers and I think that is one thing that can be done to be heard but as for most of the noise makers.
Damn not all the sheep in this country have four legs Aye!!!

Yes!! What brasses me off is the whinging attitude that most can't justify with actual negative experiences. If you believe strongly enough that things are that bad in the constablary then get off your butts and do something positive about it.

I don't agree with much that Lou has to say about the cops but I respect him for doing what he believes is his best course of action to force changes.

[Coldkiwi]

If you believe strongly enough that things are that bad in the constablary then get off your butts and do something positive about it.

i think we're all ears if you've got some bright ideas Spud!! We've tried writing letters to all and sundry and they appear to get met with disregard and ignorance (check out Jan issue of N&S) . What do you suggest? A large rideout to parliament perhaps? Well yes, great idea and lots of fun but we've seen that has a pretty limited effect and you can guarantee motorcyclists would get a bad wrap from 90% of the populace who already think we're menaces. hardly worth it is it?

so please... if you got ideas, speak up!!!! :soon:

[Jackrat]

[QUOTE=spudchucka]If you believe strongly enough that things are that bad in the constablary then get off your butts and do something positive about it.
QUOTE]

i think we're all ears if you've got some bright ideas Spud!! We've tried writing letters to all and sundry and they appear to get met with disregard and ignorance (check out Jan issue of N&S) . What do you suggest? A large rideout to parliament perhaps? Well yes, great idea and lots of fun but we've seen that has a pretty limited effect and you can guarantee motorcyclists would get a bad wrap from 90% of the populace who already think we're menaces. hardly worth it is it?

so please... if you got ideas, speak up!!!! :soon:
So join BRONZ,They are the only voise we have,The gov't does not listen to people that don't even have a name.They know damn well that we don't support our own political lobby group so why should they take any notice of us.Join BRONZ,,How's that for an idea.And try to remember,any group like them are only as strong as their membership.

[Hitcher]

So join BRONZ,They are the only voise we have,The gov't does not listen to people that don't even have a name.They know damn well that we don't support our own political lobby group so why should they take any notice of us.Join BRONZ,,How's that for an idea.And try to remember,any group like them are only as strong as their membership.

Bronz could use a bit of marketing/communications support -- the column in Kiwirider is usually bloody hard to make sense of. Bronz may be our only political "voice" but it's hard for Joe Biker to see value in what it is they're doing for us. Hence my hesitation in joining (not a particularly robust excuse, I admit). Bronz needs to be more accessible and to have a clearer "brand" presence for bikers. I'm not disputing their integrity and that they do good work for all of us one-wheel-drivers, just that they need better marketing skills.

[Coldkiwi]

good point hitcher. I wouldn't even know how to go about joining although I suppose I can see teh merit

[spudchucka]

[QUOTE=spudchucka]If you believe strongly enough that things are that bad in the constablary then get off your butts and do something positive about it.
QUOTE]

i think we're all ears if you've got some bright ideas Spud!! We've tried writing letters to all and sundry and they appear to get met with disregard and ignorance (check out Jan issue of N&S) . What do you suggest? A large rideout to parliament perhaps? Well yes, great idea and lots of fun but we've seen that has a pretty limited effect and you can guarantee motorcyclists would get a bad wrap from 90% of the populace who already think we're menaces. hardly worth it is it?

so please... if you got ideas, speak up!!!! :soon:

I'm not the one who thinks there is a problem so really I've given little thought to possible methods / ideas. Just so long as if you feel that strongly about something you actually do something and don't just whinge for the sake of it.

[RiderInBlack]

OK, might sound like a stupid question (but they are often the best), but who are the BRONZ? I just thought they were just a pro-active biker club. If they are a policial group, what are their policies? How do you get to know what they are? Do they have a pubication or a web site?
I like many people are not interested in joining a group without knowing who they are or what they stand for. So if there are Bronz members out there, how about running a "Thread" so we plain ordinary folk can ask you some questions, pick you brains, get to know Bronz better, and probably join.

[dangerous]

who are the BRONZ?

'Bikers Rights Of New Zealand' and thats about all I know :ride:

[matthewt]

To see more about BRONZ try www.bronz.org.nz

[Jackrat]

BRONZ was started in 1983 by Lee Hurley.
I was on the commitie for the first couple of years,At one time being secretary.In those first couple of years we held the first Blood runs,toy runs,
and got a motorcylist onto the NZ road safty commitie.In the time I was an active member I saw people moan like hell about everything and then not show up when the issues they had raised where put to the vote.
No body votes for an issue,it is not pushed on a national level,end of issue.
We had some people publicly put us down because they thought we were pushing the antii helmet law issue,even though we where not and never did had people publicly puting us down because we were not pushing this issue,They bitched but never showed up.Neither group ever approched us at any stage to find out what we were doing.
We had people saying we were unapprochable when they had never tryed anyway.I find that for somebody that owns a home PC with net access to say they can't find BRONZ is saying more about them than anything else.If BRONZ fails at anything it is directly due to a lack of support from NZ bikers nothing else.

[Timber020]

People join the police for a variety of reasons, the fact is that many of them are not there to protect society, but to play tough guy and ego trip and get paid relatively well when in the real world they wouldnt amount to much more than a checkout operator.

Those who do go in with good intentions often get changed by the system, its a boys club with boys rules. One of the cops in this rape inquiry was reknown for drink driving in Rotorua. And I quote "Its okay, I just put my car in D for Drunk and I get home no problem."

A cop knocked one of my mates off a bike while the cop (who was a detective) was pulling out of a pub carpark. He was obviously in the wrong but the cops that were called to the scene didnt even breath test him (although it looked obvious to my mate he had been drinking.)

There are some great cops out there, but it doesnt take much to meet the less than great ones.

Go get him Lou, Cops should insure safety, not create hazards.

[Lou Girardin]

I have to confess that I haven't joined BRONZ and I guess I should. But, they don't seem to be proactive in getting the message out to the public. Things like; the environmental benefits of bikes, reduction in congestion if bikes were encouraged (bus lanes!), etc.
A good example was Honda's US advertising campaign in the '60's. "you meet the nicest people on a Honda". That changed the publics perception of bikes and bikers.
We do need more public awareness, then we'll get more support on the issues.
I bet that the public don't even know how we get screwed over ACC.
Lou

[RiderInBlack]

We had people saying we were unapprochable when they had never tryed anyway.I find that for somebody that owns a home PC with net access to say they can't find BRONZ is saying more about them than anything else.If BRONZ fails at anything it is directly due to a lack of support from NZ bikers nothing else.
Point One: I am new to the internet
Point Two: I am fairly new to to bikes
Point Three: BRONZ should be premoting themselves (eg. newspaper articules, Bike mags, etc.). How about starting a Thread yourself, Jackrat. Let us know what is happening in the Bronz world. You might create some interest.
Point Four: Getting shitty with new bikers like myself does not encourage us to join.

Thanks for the web address. I will have a look at it.

PS: just a side note I have been proactive for bikes. Had written to ACC and the Govt re:Motorbike Reg issuse (was not able to make rally at the time as I was working as a Reg. Nurse in an Orthopeadic (broken bones) Ward).

[RiderInBlack]

Well that was encourageing. Visited the Bronz Web Site and read this from their editor:

"I have been involved with BRONZ for several years now, latterly as editor of the Auckland newsletter. My sub was due a couple of weeks ago: I will not be renewing it.
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
I salute the intentions and aims of BRONZ, and its members, but I believe that I can make a more significant use of my time and effort to lobby for motorcycling on my own initiative.
<o:p></o:p>
BRONZ in its present structure is not well suited to lobby on behalf of all motorcyclists."

Not very f*ck good. Doesn't enthoose me at all.

[Jackrat]

Point One: I am new to the internet
Point Two: I am fairly new to to bikes
Point Three: BRONZ should be premoting themselves (eg. newspaper articules, Bike mags, etc.). How about starting a Thread yourself, Jackrat. Let us know what is happening in the Bronz world. You might create some interest.
Point Four: Getting shitty with new bikers like myself does not encourage us to join.

Thanks for the web address. I will have a look at it.

PS: just a side note I have been proactive for bikes. Had written to ACC and the Govt re:Motorbike Reg issuse (was not able to make rally at the time as I was working as a Reg. Nurse in an Orthopeadic (broken bones) Ward).

None of what I wrote was a personal shot at you.
I have seen what happens to anybody that trys to start a serious discusion on this site.No thanks!!
The current problems within BRONZ are a result of people argueing rather than doing.This is much the same as all things in NZ,either put it in the to hard bin,get somebody else to do it,or moan about those who do.
Joining any organisation means becoming proactive your self,if there are problems within it is up to the membership to do something about it,but of course one has to be a member in the first place.
Truth be known,I don't care what happens to bikers in NZ.
If motorcycles were banned on NZ roads tomorrow it won't bother me one bit.
I raised this subject because somebody asked for ideas,no other reason.

[MikeL]

I have seen what happens to anybody that trys to start a serious discusion on this site.

Truth be known,I don't care what happens to bikers in NZ.


Enough said.

:angry:

[RiderInBlack]

Truth be known,I don't care what happens to bikers in NZ.
If motorcycles were banned on NZ roads tomorrow it won't bother me one bit.
I raised this subject because somebody asked for ideas,no other reason. Well I f*cken do. I take it that you don't road ride otherwise you would be more interested it whether bikes are allowed on the road. If that's the case I'd rather take advise from riders who do care.
By the way there was over 1000 bikes at the Cambridge Toy Run. It was well co-ordinated with the police. Crowds of people (waving) were on the sides of the road to see the bikes go by. And CCF will benifit from this run. All these people benifited from the fact that some of us care whether motorcycles were banned on NZ roads.:finger:

[What?]

As I posted earlier, I have laid a complaint.
So far, I have had a response from my MP (interested), the Minister of Police (acknowlegement) and the PCA (investigating).
The cops themselves have thus far remained silent...

[Coldkiwi]

good on ya What. keep bothering the buggers to make sure they actually do something about it. if they're anything like consultants, the person who bugs them the most gets their job doen first! (not that I'm speaking from personal experience you understand)

[marty]

the cops won't make any comment if it's being investigated by pca.

[aff-man]

Sorry for being dumb but what is the pca ?????? Good on ya for writing though i am surprised that you got a responce. Maybe you should write to helen clark directly because as it stands she will make any new laws/ public diplays (like a formal appology from the offending driver) to boost ratings :laugh:

[riffer]

Police Complaints Authority - they "police" the police

[What?]

Maybe you should write to helen clark directly because as it stands she will make any new laws/ public diplays (like a formal appology from the offending driver) to boost ratings :laugh:
D'ya reckon if we got a million signatures on a petition we could get the highway speed limit raised for bikes? :rolleyes:

[spudchucka]

D'ya reckon if we got a million signatures on a petition we could get the highway speed limit raised for bikes? :rolleyes:

That would require at least a quater of the population to give a shit about motorcyclists, probably more like 1/2 the population when you take account of all the apathetic pricks who are intersted in bikes but too lazy to bother.

[MikeL]

An interesting article in this morning's Herald about public attitudes towards police. Fairly sympathetic towards the police and made many valid points about social change and whether the police lead, follow or simply reflect those changes. A big omission was a discussion of falling standards of recruitment and training (part of the general dumbing-down of society) which I think is a key element.
Worth a read.

[Lou Girardin]

It was worth reading, one point quickly mentioned was the reluctance of many people to report offences. This was the subject of a Herald survey some months ago and it throws doubt on statistics showing a drop in minor crime. It seems that many people are only reporting these when required by their insurance companies.
Lou

[spudchucka]

It was worth reading, one point quickly mentioned was the reluctance of many people to report offences. This was the subject of a Herald survey some months ago and it throws doubt on statistics showing a drop in minor crime. It seems that many people are only reporting these when required by their insurance companies.
Lou

Further to that there is heaps of minor stuff that should be reported but isn't because of apethy etc. If the statistics showed the true level of offending people would be horrified. If all minor offences were reported then the Govt might be pressured into putting resources back where they can make a real difference. If they aren't reported they don't exist as far as the Govt is concerned, so make sure you report stuff even if its minor.

[What?]

I had a visit from the copper's supervisor yesterday. Said copper is due for a bit of a telling off, but if he won't have it the boss will issue him with an infringement notice for failure to indicate ($150 fine). I will be advised as to the outcome, but it is possible that it will end up in court. Totally down to Mr Plod's attitude, really.

[Cajun]

good one What? alot of the local coppers around tauranga are like that, i had the same problem once, also followed one doing 110km/h down the new express way, the whole way down

[Lou Girardin]

So, when do the general public get the choice of a 'telling off' or a ticket? What would he have to have done to warrant immediate prosecution?
One law for all?

[spudchucka]

So, when do the general public get the choice of a 'telling off' or a ticket? What would he have to have done to warrant immediate prosecution?
One law for all?
The guys supervisor has discretion same as any cop. Are you saying cops should never use discretion or just not when it involves a driver who happens to be another cop??

[pete376403]

I think he's say the cops NEVER use discretion unless it's one of their own

[Jackrat]

I think he's say the cops NEVER use discretion unless it's one of their own
My mate Jim is a HP copper down by Taupo,he is also a biker.
If he pulls you over under 160kms you stand a very good chance of being given a warning.One bit of lip though and you are FUCKED.
It only depends on attitude but a lot of people can't help but shit in their own nest.He's let heaps of guys on bikes walk but we seldom seem to hear from them on this site.

[SPman]

He's let heaps of guys on bikes walk but we seldom seem to hear from them on this site.
Perhaps we are all law abiding down that neck of the woods.....:whistle:

[Skyryder]

If you are going to lay a complaint do it through a solicitor. I know this might be a pain in the arse but the Police Complaints Authority take them a hell of a lot more seriously than indaviduals who can be given the runaround. My advice would at this stage, keep the media out of it. If for whatever reason the complaint is not upheld then the media may be an option. Do not play all your cards at once. At the end of the day it may turn out to be one of credibility you and the police officer and in this, a solicitor is another reason why one should be consulted. Again if this turns to custard and the media are involved you may have every cop in the force knowing your name. Not good for even minor infringements. One other reason why serious thought should be given before involving the media. Stay in control, once the media are involved they have their own agenda and it is a serious mistake to think that theirs is the same as yours.

Skyryder

[spudchucka]

I think he's say the cops NEVER use discretion unless it's one of their own
I know what he means, I just think his attitude sucks.

[What?]

Over the years, cop's discretion has saved me many hundreds of dollars, and probably my license. Like Jackrat says, attitude can make a difference sometimes. Just the same as where my attitude is at now with the cop who pulled a u-turn in front of me. Shit - I make errors of judgement in my job sometimes, too.
Of course, if I had hit him, then I would be following the path suggested by Skyrider.