Drunk Cagers [Archive] - Kiwi Biker forums

Sycophant

2nd March 2004, 18:15

Being that I tend to observe the behaviour of drivers around me quite closely when I am riding a bike, I have spotted a number of drivers who I believe were drunk. After nearly being killed by a drunk driver fleeing a breath testing stop a while ago, I really have not a single ounce of tollerance for it.

In a car I have sucessfully followed the driver while on the phone to the cops, and had him stopped. However on a bike, I can't do it - on one occasion, I followed the driver till I found a safe place to stop, and called in his rego and the direction of travel.

Last night, I followed a driver until he pulled into a driveway, then called the cops. They said basically there wasn't going to be anything they could do, as he was now off the road and on private property, but my complaint was logged against his rego.

Anyone have any successful method for dealing with these people? I figured that I'd follow them for a bit, flag down any cop car I saw or phone it in - but you know, there's never a cop around when you need one.

Makes me want to install some sort of hands-free kit in my helmet so I can call the cops while following them.

Two Smoker

2nd March 2004, 18:34

Sounds like the easiest way is for you to become a cop.... Ive seen the cellfone in the car trick done a few times, but on a bike easiest way is just to pull over and then caall them.

I like you have absolutely no tolerance for them either. But if im on my bike i either twist the wrist and get past them as fast as i can.... or slow down/stop and give them heaps of distance.

Maybe they need even more harsher punishments for them...............

spudchucka

2nd March 2004, 18:39

Being that I tend to observe the behaviour of drivers around me quite closely when I am riding a bike, I have spotted a number of drivers who I believe were drunk. After nearly being killed by a drunk driver fleeing a breath testing stop a while ago, I really have not a single ounce of tollerance for it.

In a car I have sucessfully followed the driver while on the phone to the cops, and had him stopped. However on a bike, I can't do it - on one occasion, I followed the driver till I found a safe place to stop, and called in his rego and the direction of travel.

Last night, I followed a driver until he pulled into a driveway, then called the cops. They said basically there wasn't going to be anything they could do, as he was now off the road and on private property, but my complaint was logged against his rego.

Anyone have any successful method for dealing with these people? I figured that I'd follow them for a bit, flag down any cop car I saw or phone it in - but you know, there's never a cop around when you need one.

Makes me want to install some sort of hands-free kit in my helmet so I can call the cops while following them.

The police need to be in fresh pursuit and suspect the driver is drunk or is driving dangerously / recklessly if they are to apprehend a driver once on private property. In the situation you speak of there is nothing they can do because it is an historic event by the time they get there.

As for best method of informing while on a bike, I think stopping and phone in rego and direction of travel is about all you can do while on a bike. If you are close to a station duck in and they will broadcast the rego, description & direction of travel for units to watch out for.

Lou Girardin

2nd March 2004, 20:43

I think I'd stay as far away as possible from a pisshead if I was on a bike, they're too unpredictable.
Lou

merv

2nd March 2004, 20:44

..... and how many are under the influence of other substances these days? To me that's a worry. Cops I understand are going back and retesting old blood samples plus new ones to see what percentage the problem is these days. Will be interesting to see the results - I suspect it will be higher than anyone hopes as far as drugs are concerned.

Milky

4th March 2004, 10:49

If you are close to a station duck in and they will broadcast the rego, description & direction of travel for units to watch out for.

I was stuck at the caltex station in wellsford yesterday with a flattie :thud: and while i was there talked to a guy who had been working there for a time... there were two obviously pissed guys who came in and god a bite to eat - one of them didnt have a lot of success at walking in a straight line, and the other was not far off :wacko:

The attendant also noticed it and said that previously he had seen similar occurances and phoned the police as a result. They responded by saying tht the only thing they could/would do was absolutely nothing... there is one car operating on the brenderwyn-warkworth during the night shift (11pm on) according to the guy there, and he does all the traffic & domestic callouts etc, as such i really cant blame them for not having the resources to take care of the problem. Still... you have to wonder where all our taxes go - could it possibly be into laundering more cash from our pockets??? :sneaky2: :angry2:

Just glad that i got the puncture when i did and watched the drunkards drive off in the opposit direction to where i was headed. :wavey:

spudchucka

4th March 2004, 11:30

I was stuck at the caltex station in wellsford yesterday with a flattie :thud: and while i was there talked to a guy who had been working there for a time... there were two obviously pissed guys who came in and god a bite to eat - one of them didnt have a lot of success at walking in a straight line, and the other was not far off :wacko:

The attendant also noticed it and said that previously he had seen similar occurances and phoned the police as a result. They responded by saying tht the only thing they could/would do was absolutely nothing... there is one car operating on the brenderwyn-warkworth during the night shift (11pm on) according to the guy there, and he does all the traffic & domestic callouts etc, as such i really cant blame them for not having the resources to take care of the problem. Still... you have to wonder where all our taxes go - could it possibly be into laundering more cash from our pockets??? :sneaky2: :angry2:

Just glad that i got the puncture when i did and watched the drunkards drive off in the opposit direction to where i was headed. :wavey:

Resourcing is a huge issue. Obviously in smaller areas they can't have huge amounts of staff and if the only cop working is 20 km away from the location then there is no hope of getting them.

If the attendant passed the rego to the operator it would have been logged and hopefully if a direction of travel was given this would have been passed on to units further down the line. Thats about all that could be done in that instance.

For every drunk caught on the roads there would be dozens that routinely get away with it - and they are the bastards that need to be caught.

Jackrat

4th March 2004, 11:36

Resourcing is a huge issue. Obviously in smaller areas they can't have huge amounts of staff and if the only cop working is 20 km away from the location then there is no hope of getting them.

If the attendant passed the rego to the operator it would have been logged and hopefully if a direction of travel was given this would have been passed on to units further down the line. Thats about all that could be done in that instance.

For every drunk caught on the roads there would be dozens that routinely get away with it - and they are the bastards that need to be caught.
No kiding,try finding a cop in Waiuku.
And then when they do, Do a booze stop they catch half the town.
For such a small town this place must be piss head city. :Pokey:

Lou Girardin

4th March 2004, 11:42

Funny, there seems to be no shortage during daylight hours.
Lou

georgedubyabush

4th March 2004, 14:26

Just to slightly balance the view...
My only dealings with the cops in the last 12 months was when my car was broken into in my garage.
It was a Sunday mid-morning on a holiday weekend when I found it, so didnt have much hope but rang the cops anyway. The call was transferred to godknowswhere, but they told me they'd get back to me. Within the hour the sole cop for the entire kaikohe district on duty at the time was there. Prints taken, very thorough, was a good guy.
I was previously under the impression they didnt even print car break-ins?
Nothing came of it, but his write-up helped with insurance I suppose.
Copper left after over an hour for a shoplifter in town.

spudchucka

4th March 2004, 16:52

Funny, there seems to be no shortage during daylight hours.
Lou

Again a resourcing issue, why do they roster that many units on for day shifts?? Might be because 90% of the population goes about their business during daylight hours????

Lou Girardin

4th March 2004, 19:30

Again a resourcing issue, why do they roster that many units on for day shifts?? Might be because 90% of the population goes about their business during daylight hours????

Eggsxacttamundo, you catch on quick. Better cost/revenue ratio.
Shame that more nasties are about at night.
Lou

Coldkiwi

4th March 2004, 19:53

:Police: ... line and sinker lou!

(geez we're cyncicla bastards)

Zed

4th March 2004, 19:55

...If the attendant passed the rego to the operator it would have been logged and hopefully if a direction of travel was given this would have been passed on to units further down the line. Thats about all that could be done in that instance...
One could try making a citizen's arrest considering the drug offense (alcohol) and that they might drive off and kill some poor innocent!

This may be of interest:

How to make a citizen’s arrest

When can I make a citizen’s arrest?

Private citizens have the power to make an arrest in the following circumstances:

if the crime is being committed at night
if the crime being committed is punishable by three years’ imprisonment or more
if a person is attempting to escape from someone trying to make an arrest
As a general rule the offences for which one is likely to make a citizen’s arrest will be of a more serious nature, including murder, serious assault, drug offences, sex offences, breaking and entering, fraud and theft.

What should I say in making the arrest?

When making a citizen’s arrest, you should inform the person that you are doing so for the particular crime in question, and that you are taking them to the nearest Police officer.

Witnesses

If there are any other witnesses present, try to get their help and ask for their names and addresses.

How much force can be used?

If force is required to make a citizen’s arrest, you should use only reasonable force to overcome any resistance being given; otherwise your actions could amount to an assault.

You should be aware that the suspect has the right to resist your efforts to make the arrest: you do not have the same powers as a Police officer.

Do I have any powers to search or question the person?

No, you have no legal rights to search or seize anything from the person, nor to question him or her.

Cautionary notes

Even though you have the right to make a citizen’s arrest, you are not required to do so by law. If you feel it is necessary to make an arrest, you should proceed with caution, as the person in question may well be dangerous.
You should also ensure that you have the proper grounds to make the arrest; if you do not you may open yourself to being sued for wrongful arrest.
Source: http://www.howtolaw.co.nz/html/ml116.asp

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Lou Girardin

5th March 2004, 05:50

You should also ensure that you have the proper grounds to make the arrest; if you do not you may open yourself to being sued for wrongful arrest.This alone should make everyone stay well clear of citizen arrests, most people do not know the law well enough.
And then there's always the risk of a good bashing.
Leave it to plod, if they show.
Lou

spudchucka

5th March 2004, 12:28

Eggsxacttamundo, you catch on quick. Better cost/revenue ratio.
Shame that more nasties are about at night.
Lou

Thats just your one eyed outlook at work again Lou. There are so many counter arguements that it is hardly worth the bother to raise them all.

Heres a few:

Due to the volume of traffic there are more crashes during daylight hours. Then there are the general, day to day enquiries that need to be made during daylight hours because thats when people are awake. Court operates during daylight hours. Shoplifters opeate during daylight hours. Many burglaries are committed during daylight hours when people like you are at work.

The general duties branch work around a 24 hour rotating roster, usually made up of 5 - 6 groups of 7 - 10 cops. There are periods during the day that have groups overlaping, ie: between late shift and night shift there is often a 4 hour overlap, meaning that there are more on the street at the critical times between midnight and 0400 hrs. The reason being that the pubs empty out during this time frame and this is when there is a lot of street disorder and drunks on the road.

Additional to this you have other specialist units working at various different times of the day dependant on what the units are tasked with. Dog handlers tend to work more late shifts and night shifts because as you rightly point out there are more "nasties" out at that time. CIB work days and lates and are on call for serious matters as do forensics and photographers. And yes the CVIU and the Highway Patrol roster themselves on to operate when the traffic is heaviest and at times when problems are known to occur because of past history.

Common sense would tell anybody that didn't have a grudge that the cops roster their units around when they get the most business. Your problem is that you belive that the only business the cops are interested in is revenue. Thats your opinion and you are entitled to it but it is just plain wrong!

spudchucka

5th March 2004, 12:37

One could try making a citizen's arrest considering the drug offense (alcohol) and that they might drive off and kill some poor innocent!

I would strongly advise you not to consider this option.

One of the most dangerous things the cops do on a day to day basis is stopping vehicles. There is simply no way of knowing who is in that vehicle or what they are capable of. Case in point: Highway cop who got shot in Hastings recently.

Good on you for wanting to take action but you will most likely end up beaten up or worse. As Lou said in his own cynical way, leave it to the cops. They have the powers under the law to deal with it and they have the training and tools to manage things if the driver turns stroppy.

Lou Girardin

5th March 2004, 13:51

Let's just look at HP and STU and keep all the red herrings out of the issue. The fact is, there are more of these guys on duty during the day!
Lou

Two Smoker

5th March 2004, 13:56

Let's just look at HP and STU and keep all the red herrings out of the issue. The fact is, there are more of these guys on duty during the day!
Lou
The STU are generally rostered for the 0700-1500 shift or the 1500-2300 shift and the occasional 1700-0100 shift

The STU units also rotate through Boy Racer Patrol out in South Auckland.

but from the hours of 0700-2300 is when most people are out driving and that is when the STU are out in force. Wouldn't it be stupid if the STU was rostered for the graveyard shift when they would literally only see the odd car......

And if that odd car was speeding by a little (lets say 61-70) the chances of getting a ticket are very low.

Zed

5th March 2004, 14:31

I would strongly advise you not to consider this option.
I wouldn't recommend it either, but it is an option if things get out of hand when there are no police around.

BTW there are plenty of able people in our society who are capable of making a citizens arrest! Maybe a couple of drunkards in a Wellsford service station is not a good example, but if someone broke into my home and assulted one of my family members I would attempt to "arrest" him, for lack of a better word! :ar15:

Zed

spudchucka

5th March 2004, 16:54

Let's just look at HP and STU and keep all the red herrings out of the issue. The fact is, there are more of these guys on duty during the day!
Lou

If your beef if with the STU CVIU, why don't you say that. You constantly refer to the "police", which is a hell of a lot bigger organisation than that, if you have a specific problem then be specific about it.

If you are bagging the CVIU for not turning up when your house get burgles, it's probably because they wouldn't know what to do when they got there. Many of those guys are ex MOT and have been working in that area since the merger and have probably never attended a burglary.

They have a specific skill set and they are tasked to deliver relevant to that skill set.

The fact that these guys work more day shifts is stating the obvious, why would they work when there is no traffic on the roads??

spudchucka

5th March 2004, 16:57

I wouldn't recommend it either, but it is an option if things get out of hand when there are no police around.

BTW there are plenty of able people in our society who are capable of making a citizens arrest! Maybe a couple of drunkards in a Wellsford service station is not a good example, but if someone broke into my home and assulted one of my family members I would attempt to "arrest" him, for lack of a better word! :ar15:

Zed

You just need to be sure of what you are doing and why. You could get yourself in a power of trouble not to mention badly hurt. With the number of people on P these days the risks are very real.

And yes if someone was breaking into my house and my family was at risk, I would do exactly the same thing and happily suffer what ever consequences there were.

Lou Girardin

6th March 2004, 05:26

The public refer to the 'Police' because that is all they are interested in. They want cops to show up at their burgled houses and they want their road accidents attended. They don't give a fat rats arse about STU, CVIU, CUNT or any of the other acronyms. All the public see are lots of traffic cops and not many others, and it's Police managements job to deal with that perception.
The MOT managed to have as many T/O's rostered for evening shifts as daytime, why can't this lot.
Unless, of course, it is all about revenue.
Lou

spudchucka

6th March 2004, 13:01

The public refer to the 'Police' because that is all they are interested in. They want cops to show up at their burgled houses and they want their road accidents attended. They don't give a fat rats arse about STU, CVIU, CUNT or any of the other acronyms. All the public see are lots of traffic cops and not many others, and it's Police managements job to deal with that perception.
The MOT managed to have as many T/O's rostered for evening shifts as daytime, why can't this lot.
Unless, of course, it is all about revenue.
Lou

The MOT only had one job to do - traffic.

Did they have to attend domestics? Did they have to deal with the drunken dissorder that occurs every Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights? No!!!

Personally I would love to see a seperate traffic branch again but theres about as much chance of that happening as you getting over this revenue gathering nonsense.

Oh and by the way for what its worth, many of the Inspectors & Superintendants that are making policy decisions, running the HP, Traffic Alcohol groups and CVIU are ex MOT.

One last thing, I don't see why you have to chuck in the C**T word.

Two Smoker

6th March 2004, 14:05

The MOT only had one job to do - traffic.

Did they have to attend domestics? Did they have to deal with the drunken dissorder that occurs every Thursday, Friday, Saturday nights? No!!!

Oh and by the way for what its worth, many of the Inspectors & Superintendants that are making policy decisions, running the HP, Traffic Alcohol groups and CVIU are ex MOT.

This is true that the ex-MOT guys in the commisioned ranks are making this crap decisions (mainly from pressure above them), BUT alot of ex MOT staff in the units on the field are pissed about the current policy, and the way things are done.

As your comment about the MOT not having to attend domestics, is irralivant due to the fact the most STU CVIU or HP guys do not deal with domestics.

With Lou's comment about the fact that people SEEM to see heaps of Cop cars that are doing traffic is because you(the public) like them (the Traffic Branch) are generally on main passage ways etc. If you go out to the back streets you will see alot of Police cars doing General duties in the suburbs because that is where the problems for burglaries etc are commited there.

Two Smoker

6th March 2004, 14:08

But enough of this shit, its starting to turn nasty:Playnice:

Lou i agree with some of the things you say and Spud i agree with some of the things you say, this arguement isn't going to do shit all.....

So how bout we shake hands and get on and talk about bikes:niceone:

Unless we carry the arguement on with less anger?????

spudchucka

6th March 2004, 14:31

But enough of this shit, its starting to turn nasty:Playnice:

Lou i agree with some of the things you say and Spud i agree with some of the things you say, this arguement isn't going to do shit all.....

So how bout we shake hands and get on and talk about bikes:niceone:

Unless we carry the arguement on with less anger?????

I agree that this thread will go nowhere; but as long as Lou or anyone else keeps dropping off the cuff derogitory comments about the police that I see as being unjustified then I'll respond.

Shake hands - no worries, I'm not trying to start a fight, just offer an alternative view point.

Lou Girardin

6th March 2004, 15:46

The C*#T was an attempt at facetiousness, not intended to be derogatory to any person or thing. My most grovelling apologies to anyone offended.
Lou

igor

6th March 2004, 16:29

The C*#T was an attempt at facetiousness, not intended to be derogatory to any person or thing. My most grovelling apologies to anyone offended.
Lou

looks like we got a few cops and ther kin on this board picking on ya. :niceone:

the way u wah on it sounds like u r ex-MOT/ACC and still got a bad bad case of sour grapes about the merger and not being able to handle the take over and having to leave cause life was to hard for ya.

spudchucka

6th March 2004, 18:06

On a positive note this thread is pushing my post count up. I'm suprised I haven't made the most disreputable list again though. :D

Lou Girardin

7th March 2004, 05:40

looks like we got a few cops and ther kin on this board picking on ya. :niceone:

the way u wah on it sounds like u r ex-MOT/ACC and still got a bad bad case of sour grapes about the merger and not being able to handle the take over and having to leave cause life was to hard for ya.

No. I left, voluntarily, well before the merger to start a business.
I don't have any personal grievance against the Police at all.
Lou

igor

7th March 2004, 09:35

No. I left, voluntarily, well before the merger to start a business.
I don't have any personal grievance against the Police at all.
Lou

ahhh and you sound like so many others that have left, missing it sooooooo bad. You wished you nevert left :Police:

Lou Girardin

7th March 2004, 20:20

Yeah, picking on bikers. Booking yummy mummy's. God, I miss it.
Lou

Skyryder

12th March 2004, 13:09

Maybe what is needed is a good old data base on this forum. Like make of car, rego number time and place etc Then if anyone sees the vehicleparked up somewhere, a good old rag up the exhaust :banana: to keep them off the road. So it is taking the law into 'our own hands.' So what. :2thumbsup

Skyryder

Lou Girardin

12th March 2004, 15:58

Maybe what is needed is a good old data base on this forum. Like make of car, rego number time and place etc Then if anyone sees the vehicleparked up somewhere, a good old rag up the exhaust :banana: to keep them off the road. So it is taking the law into 'our own hands.' So what. :2thumbsup

Skyryder

That'll be one monster database.
Lou